Dear god, someone who thinks about their viewers, not just checking a box on an algorithm. Vince, this is why you're a true pillar of the hobby. (I always listen start to finish anyway)
Korgos Khul is actually a great counterpart to Gunnar Brand. Where Gunnar fights for the independence of his tribe in the face of godly promises, Korgos IS the hero in his own book, freeing his people from an awful tithe, but later gives into godly servitude, sacrificing that which he protected and ultimately becoming the villain.
1:36:09 Tornus the Redeemed is quite literally my favorite character in AoS. He heavily features in Plague Garden and has a whole arc there. I’m very excited to see how he interacts within the Ruination Chamber.
Neferata half in cool is a crime. She's been around so long and she has her own books in both the Old World and AOS, all of which are weird and amazing.
Archaon Everchosen, Grand Marshal of the Apocalypse, Bringer of the End Times, Destroyer of Worlds, Provider of a Mount for converted Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragons.
The problem with skragrott is that he lives in the shadow of skarsnik (literally if you believe the theory that skarsnik is the bad moon). He’s like skarsnik lite.
I can't help but put Neave Blacktalon in chad. Like most of us I ended up with a lot of stormcast models as I bought 2 Dominion boxes for the Kruleboyz, 1 Skaventide and the Stormbringer subscription. It was the Blacktalon animation that made me pull the plug on actually doing a stormcast army.
vhordrai has some cool gimmicks - cursed to not stray from his castle, bit the castle telwports through the mists to wherever Nagash wants it basically, very castlevania. but he himself just isn't a character so far, never done anything with him, no goals or personality. so yeah, very low tier right now, but his foundational gimmicks are good enough that he could shoot up real fast if anyone ever does anything with him.
The problem with his gimmicks is that it describes his blood line rather than himself. He’s got a bit of backstory and that’s about it. A book (and potentially a new model if the rumours are true) will do so much for him.
now that he’s got a (white dwarf legends) warscroll, i’d throw my favorite boy Hamilcar Bear-eater in here, just under Chad. He’s not on the power level as the gods or even other more powerful stormcasts, but he has the most powerful personality in the whole faction IMO. Also no Yndrasta? i’d put her in Chad
I think this is one of your best episodes, maybe ever? This was so much fun, judging all the random foot characters GW have made and put no effort into making cool. Loved it.
Arkhan the Black is the very competent side-kick/right hand to the Saturday Cartoon's Villain who takes all the credit for his hard work and proceeds to screw everything up all the time.
to me, nagash is his own category called bad for the setting : by becoming the sole ruler of death, he makes the faction boring, the only way to make death good is by making characters that have personality in spite of nagash. he corrupted the true essence of shyish and i just wish another death god would rise to power to challenge him.
There is def some Nurgle hate going on from both Vince and the guest. It was def cool to hear other nerds talk about stories / characters that resonate with them. I truly love the variety and different ways this game gives people excitement and joy.
Would personally put both Olynder and Katakros into Chad (I am a death fanboy though). Olynder beat the Celestant Prime, has a cool backstory, and her exploits in her novel are pretty awesome (basically tricks a city into allowing her to wipe it out), has an interresting developing rivalry with Belakor too which I hope they explore more, and generally steals the show whenever she turns up (I loved 2+ Tough describing her as a rockstar). Katakros made a beachhead vs Chaos in their home turf and almost took Archaon's own castle, then went toe to toe against the literal bringer of the apocalypse and held his own (he obviously lost but that screams chad to me).
I'm sorry but right now, Gordrakk is in exist, tip-toeing into cool: after the siege of Excelsis, the orruk battletome (which started 3rd ed) had Gordrakk trick and wrestle a Godbeast with a realm-gate in its maw, which he and his gang traversed, entering the Eight Points. The scene ended with Gordrakk getting the idea of attacking Archeon's place of power, and then NOTHING came of it until today. So his background is cool, but since then, he... exists.
2:18:48 how are Order not winning this war when they have space ships with an army of dragon eggs on board, space lasers and a leader able to remember people into existence. Sigmar and Ionis should ask Kroak for help on reforging.
Ikit was just a normal rat. :) - Vlad had the greatest story in Warhammer and it came to a conclusion. He had a wonderful arc, but his story came to a satisfying conclusion, I am glad they have let him rest.
This video deserves a like just by the fact that we now know who’s the Cliff Barnes of this soap opera. Sure, he stole JR’s hammer for a few episodes but probably ended up locked into a restroom in the end.
cado's pretty solid. the sort of noblish vampire struggling against his curse for the sake of revenge against the hidden cult that burned his home, has the ghosts of old followers in his rings, he's a solidly cool guy in and of himself, but might warrent a lower rating just based on the fact that he has basically no bearing on the wider metaplot of the realms.
Love the idea for the tier list! Just a suggestion for next time, maybe (if possible) try to include larger pictures of the models, if doing something similar? Would be nicer to follow along the discussion when I actually see what is being talked about. Not sure what would be the best way to actually do this, maybe have a powerpoint with pictures and then jump back and forth between showing what is getting ranked and putting them onto the ranking?
mannfred is such a heel, draws so much heat, petty, vindictive, increadibly powerful yet wracked with insecurity, so lousy, so fun, so funny, so hateable. warhammer starscream absolutely deserves to be in pure chad.
Where's my boy Belthanos?? He's so cool in concept, but doesnt play much of a role in the Dawnbringer Crusade unfortunately. He'd be in between exists and cool for me right now.
Great episode. I love how the mainliners appeared at the end of the show, like the rock stars they are. Nagash's capital letter talk is clearly a nod to Sir Terry Pratchett's Death always SPEAKING LIKE THIS. Obviously, the English writers creating the lore have read the most popular English fantasy series ever, where Death is one of the few actual main characters of Discworld.
Many characters suffer from GW being unable to write interesting destruction or chaos (specifically Khorne) characters, and they are still often really derivative. This is a shame as they have some fantastic concepts when they avoid the archetypes - not that archetypes are bad they just need interesting twists That said, it might be my age but Trugg doesn't strike me as cool, but just wanting to be left lone to sleep is relatable sometimes
in one of the dawnbringer books, book 3 or 4 can't remember off top of my head and unable to get my copy out ATM to check, it may have been mentioned in one of the dawnbringer stories on the warhammer community page as well
Astreia's story about why the sacrosanct are retired models convinced me that Ushoran will be the antagonist for AoS 5th. Astreia will rebel against Sigmar's order with a bunch of Stormcast to raid his library were she is sure she saw the solution to the flaw of the reforging.
I don't think Morathi is actually written by anyone. I think literally the writers show up and new paragraphs are somehow written by her in universe and they're too afraid to change them.
NGL i never realized Elarelle (a clearly elfish name that i expected to be a special character of some kind but couldnt find on any list of models) is L.R.L. until about midway through this review
6 to 8 hours per clan rat, seems like mine except im on my 2nd (besides grey seer, engi and clawlord)! Awesome! Will you make a reveal of the army when you're done?
I think Shalaxi was done a bit dirty. Granted she doesn't have a big presence in books, but she does have some cool bits here and there. In AoS she was hunting Kragnos - wanting to mount his head in the throne room of Slaanesh in preparation for the return of the Prince of Chaos. On her way to Kragnos she crossed path with Morathi-Khaine that was also after Kragnos. Here she fought the aelven god to standstil, until Shalaxi eventually got the upper hand and was about to deliver a lethal blow, when Morathi went airborne and fled. She has essentially bested - but not outright defeated - Skarbrand twice and made a mockery of the Y'nari in 40k. She's a tough character to implement narratively because she essentially is the embodiment of combat perfected. Her literal purpose is to vex the enemies of Slaanesh by hunting down, dueling and defeating their most prominent champions. She doesn't make for a great narrative character, but she's an incredibly mythological character. Characters like her, serve an important purpose in a high fantasy setting where literal gods walk amongst "us" and the chaos gods can't enter the mortal realms. Here it's only logical to wonder why these gods don't participate more directly to change the flow of battles and wars. It'll often be explained with a simple "well they're busy doing more important stuff", but having characters like Shalaxi out there add a much needed tangible threat, even to such divine beings. It's the implied understanding that even gods could find themselves at the wrong end of Shalaxi's Soulpiercer if they grow careless and overextend. Her grander narrative impact is strategically limited by her sheer single mindedness. Shalaxi doesn't do her thing to further the grander great game, but rather to set things right by showcasing that martial perfection belongs to Slaanesh and noone else. She's the John Wick of AoS with Slaanesh being the metaphoric dog you don't want to harm. So while I'll concede that she definitely lacks the qualities that would make a prominent character in a novel, she's extraordinarily cool. Shalaxi is meant to beat whoever she's fighting against and as such she'd be equally horrible as both a protagonist or antagonist, but she's awesome for tying up lose ends and adding some cool narrative bits here and there.
I’m impressed you’re able to talk hobby at a time like this. I’m not in the US, so I can’t even organize a meaningful resistance, we in Europe just have to brace for the shitfall. Good luck, and make your local game store a safe space.
Putting Grotrek in to exists is wrong, like snogging your sister levels of wrong. Anything but pure Chad is unacceptable, he has a god wanting to make him an Avatar and he's just like Nah I'm good. leaving him off the list that's going in the book.
Also, Tyrion and Teclis should have been killed of in the old world, just because a character has been jammed into a lot stories does not make them interesting, same for Karl Franz
I kinda think yall did vandus dirty. I think he was bland and stagnant between his start in AoS 1 before the tragic resolution. But i think the end made his arc so much more interesting, possibly one of the most interesting. I wouldn't say he is a chad but IMO the most interesting characters are flawed and not Chads. Also to eliminate bias, I think stormcast in general are boring and Big Ush and FEC are the coolest
Dear god, someone who thinks about their viewers, not just checking a box on an algorithm. Vince, this is why you're a true pillar of the hobby. (I always listen start to finish anyway)
Korgos Khul is actually a great counterpart to Gunnar Brand. Where Gunnar fights for the independence of his tribe in the face of godly promises, Korgos IS the hero in his own book, freeing his people from an awful tithe, but later gives into godly servitude, sacrificing that which he protected and ultimately becoming the villain.
Thanks!
Thank you! Very much apprecaited. :)
1:36:09 Tornus the Redeemed is quite literally my favorite character in AoS. He heavily features in Plague Garden and has a whole arc there. I’m very excited to see how he interacts within the Ruination Chamber.
Lord Kroak died, stayed dead for a while, then decided he didn't like it anymore and came back.
Neferata half in cool is a crime. She's been around so long and she has her own books in both the Old World and AOS, all of which are weird and amazing.
Archaon Everchosen, Grand Marshal of the Apocalypse, Bringer of the End Times, Destroyer of Worlds, Provider of a Mount for converted Vampire Lords on Zombie Dragons.
The problem with skragrott is that he lives in the shadow of skarsnik (literally if you believe the theory that skarsnik is the bad moon). He’s like skarsnik lite.
I know nothing about AOS lore, but Lord Croak is now my favorite character. :D
I can't help but put Neave Blacktalon in chad. Like most of us I ended up with a lot of stormcast models as I bought 2 Dominion boxes for the Kruleboyz, 1 Skaventide and the Stormbringer subscription. It was the Blacktalon animation that made me pull the plug on actually doing a stormcast army.
vhordrai has some cool gimmicks - cursed to not stray from his castle, bit the castle telwports through the mists to wherever Nagash wants it basically, very castlevania. but he himself just isn't a character so far, never done anything with him, no goals or personality. so yeah, very low tier right now, but his foundational gimmicks are good enough that he could shoot up real fast if anyone ever does anything with him.
The problem with his gimmicks is that it describes his blood line rather than himself. He’s got a bit of backstory and that’s about it. A book (and potentially a new model if the rumours are true) will do so much for him.
now that he’s got a (white dwarf legends) warscroll, i’d throw my favorite boy Hamilcar Bear-eater in here, just under Chad.
He’s not on the power level as the gods or even other more powerful stormcasts, but he has the most powerful personality in the whole faction IMO.
Also no Yndrasta? i’d put her in Chad
I think this is one of your best episodes, maybe ever? This was so much fun, judging all the random foot characters GW have made and put no effort into making cool. Loved it.
Having not watched the video, the answer is undoubtedly Morathi, and if you say otherwise you're just wrong
Thank you both for this episode! It had a feelgood feeling about it :)
Our pleasure!
Lord Kroak the love guru 😆
Arkhan the Black is the very competent side-kick/right hand to the Saturday Cartoon's Villain who takes all the credit for his hard work and proceeds to screw everything up all the time.
I am sad to have missed the live.
I would’ve offered Sigmar himself to assess.
We all know he’s Pure Chad, but I would’ve loved to have your input :)
to me, nagash is his own category called bad for the setting : by becoming the sole ruler of death, he makes the faction boring, the only way to make death good is by making characters that have personality in spite of nagash. he corrupted the true essence of shyish and i just wish another death god would rise to power to challenge him.
There is def some Nurgle hate going on from both Vince and the guest.
It was def cool to hear other nerds talk about stories / characters that resonate with them. I truly love the variety and different ways this game gives people excitement and joy.
Would personally put both Olynder and Katakros into Chad (I am a death fanboy though). Olynder beat the Celestant Prime, has a cool backstory, and her exploits in her novel are pretty awesome (basically tricks a city into allowing her to wipe it out), has an interresting developing rivalry with Belakor too which I hope they explore more, and generally steals the show whenever she turns up (I loved 2+ Tough describing her as a rockstar). Katakros made a beachhead vs Chaos in their home turf and almost took Archaon's own castle, then went toe to toe against the literal bringer of the apocalypse and held his own (he obviously lost but that screams chad to me).
I'm sorry but right now, Gordrakk is in exist, tip-toeing into cool: after the siege of Excelsis, the orruk battletome (which started 3rd ed) had Gordrakk trick and wrestle a Godbeast with a realm-gate in its maw, which he and his gang traversed, entering the Eight Points. The scene ended with Gordrakk getting the idea of attacking Archeon's place of power, and then NOTHING came of it until today. So his background is cool, but since then, he... exists.
2:18:48 how are Order not winning this war when they have space ships with an army of dragon eggs on board, space lasers and a leader able to remember people into existence.
Sigmar and Ionis should ask Kroak for help on reforging.
Man, Gotrek, the unwillfull avatar of Grimnirr, fighting him to not become the god of the fyreslayers... he's way past cool!
The fact Vlad and Ikit are not in AoS is criminal
Ikit was just a normal rat. :) - Vlad had the greatest story in Warhammer and it came to a conclusion. He had a wonderful arc, but his story came to a satisfying conclusion, I am glad they have let him rest.
This video deserves a like just by the fact that we now know who’s the Cliff Barnes of this soap opera. Sure, he stole JR’s hammer for a few episodes but probably ended up locked into a restroom in the end.
Fun Fact, Scylla has cooler lore in Blood Bowl than in Fantasy/AoS
cado's pretty solid. the sort of noblish vampire struggling against his curse for the sake of revenge against the hidden cult that burned his home, has the ghosts of old followers in his rings, he's a solidly cool guy in and of himself, but might warrent a lower rating just based on the fact that he has basically no bearing on the wider metaplot of the realms.
Love the idea for the tier list! Just a suggestion for next time, maybe (if possible) try to include larger pictures of the models, if doing something similar? Would be nicer to follow along the discussion when I actually see what is being talked about. Not sure what would be the best way to actually do this, maybe have a powerpoint with pictures and then jump back and forth between showing what is getting ranked and putting them onto the ranking?
In the same few minutes, Vince both says the names of the balcony muppets and "Kicked in the nards." My day is now complete
mannfred is such a heel, draws so much heat, petty, vindictive, increadibly powerful yet wracked with insecurity, so lousy, so fun, so funny, so hateable. warhammer starscream absolutely deserves to be in pure chad.
And Manni somehow is the second most skaven character after Thanquol
Where's my boy Belthanos?? He's so cool in concept, but doesnt play much of a role in the Dawnbringer Crusade unfortunately. He'd be in between exists and cool for me right now.
I played against Rickis ghoulmere grots the other weekend! Stunning army!
Was kragnos forgotten? Or did I just forget to notice him too
We forgot him like the story writers do… ;)
Great episode. I love how the mainliners appeared at the end of the show, like the rock stars they are. Nagash's capital letter talk is clearly a nod to Sir Terry Pratchett's Death always SPEAKING LIKE THIS. Obviously, the English writers creating the lore have read the most popular English fantasy series ever, where Death is one of the few actual main characters of Discworld.
Many characters suffer from GW being unable to write interesting destruction or chaos (specifically Khorne) characters, and they are still often really derivative. This is a shame as they have some fantastic concepts when they avoid the archetypes - not that archetypes are bad they just need interesting twists
That said, it might be my age but Trugg doesn't strike me as cool, but just wanting to be left lone to sleep is relatable sometimes
Style wise, the skull reminds me of some of the 5th Ed chaos warrior shoulders
Waaait. Where can I find the scene with Kroak comforting Alarielle?
in one of the dawnbringer books, book 3 or 4 can't remember off top of my head and unable to get my copy out ATM to check, it may have been mentioned in one of the dawnbringer stories on the warhammer community page as well
Yep, I think its DB4
Nagash is the Team Rocket of AoS
Astreia's story about why the sacrosanct are retired models convinced me that Ushoran will be the antagonist for AoS 5th. Astreia will rebel against Sigmar's order with a bunch of Stormcast to raid his library were she is sure she saw the solution to the flaw of the reforging.
He's pretty new to the AoS World, but I would also add Belthanos to the list. He's pretty Chad-like.
I don't think Morathi is actually written by anyone. I think literally the writers show up and new paragraphs are somehow written by her in universe and they're too afraid to change them.
NGL i never realized Elarelle (a clearly elfish name that i expected to be a special character of some kind but couldnt find on any list of models) is L.R.L. until about midway through this review
1:19:33 Surely you mean Trugg, the Deus ex Smashina?
Call and Ambulance but not for me was perfect. Well done 42:17
That is a HOT take on the Ushoran model.
6 to 8 hours per clan rat, seems like mine except im on my 2nd (besides grey seer, engi and clawlord)! Awesome! Will you make a reveal of the army when you're done?
Oh, absolutely, though that is a long way away. :)
Judge Goremayne of the flesh-eater courts is a pretty fun named character, though not really all that important.
So which books do i need to read for everything to do with kroak
Boy, it's spread all over, many of the vinettes, I was describing was in the most recent Dawnbringers series.
I think Shalaxi was done a bit dirty.
Granted she doesn't have a big presence in books, but she does have some cool bits here and there.
In AoS she was hunting Kragnos - wanting to mount his head in the throne room of Slaanesh in preparation for the return of the Prince of Chaos.
On her way to Kragnos she crossed path with Morathi-Khaine that was also after Kragnos. Here she fought the aelven god to standstil, until Shalaxi eventually got the upper hand and was about to deliver a lethal blow, when Morathi went airborne and fled.
She has essentially bested - but not outright defeated - Skarbrand twice and made a mockery of the Y'nari in 40k.
She's a tough character to implement narratively because she essentially is the embodiment of combat perfected. Her literal purpose is to vex the enemies of Slaanesh by hunting down, dueling and defeating their most prominent champions.
She doesn't make for a great narrative character, but she's an incredibly mythological character. Characters like her, serve an important purpose in a high fantasy setting where literal gods walk amongst "us" and the chaos gods can't enter the mortal realms. Here it's only logical to wonder why these gods don't participate more directly to change the flow of battles and wars. It'll often be explained with a simple "well they're busy doing more important stuff", but having characters like Shalaxi out there add a much needed tangible threat, even to such divine beings. It's the implied understanding that even gods could find themselves at the wrong end of Shalaxi's Soulpiercer if they grow careless and overextend.
Her grander narrative impact is strategically limited by her sheer single mindedness. Shalaxi doesn't do her thing to further the grander great game, but rather to set things right by showcasing that martial perfection belongs to Slaanesh and noone else.
She's the John Wick of AoS with Slaanesh being the metaphoric dog you don't want to harm.
So while I'll concede that she definitely lacks the qualities that would make a prominent character in a novel, she's extraordinarily cool. Shalaxi is meant to beat whoever she's fighting against and as such she'd be equally horrible as both a protagonist or antagonist, but she's awesome for tying up lose ends and adding some cool narrative bits here and there.
One criticism, the graph the video is based on is less than half the screen
Thank you
33:18 "This is bad comedy."
thanks for the lighthearted show in these dark times
Not enough time stamps :(
My dude Chuck!
Morathi is the best character in AoS. Queen of Queens. God of gods.
Where's my angry chad boi Gotrek?
Wow, I can't disagree more about the Ushoran model. That is my favorite in all of AoS.
This is the closest I’ve ever come to disliking a WHW … Skragrott not being in Chas tier is the worst take 😂
Vince, please do not call Celestant Prime the Big CP.
Redeeming archaon? ❎️
Redeeming half of syll'esske? ✅️
All dogs go to chaddom.
It's a bit harsh to call vince a kid without hair. *joking* Did the same with my hair for cancer patients. Great stuff!
Team Chuck shirt please
I’m impressed you’re able to talk hobby at a time like this. I’m not in the US, so I can’t even organize a meaningful resistance, we in Europe just have to brace for the shitfall.
Good luck, and make your local game store a safe space.
Putting Grotrek in to exists is wrong, like snogging your sister levels of wrong. Anything but pure Chad is unacceptable, he has a god wanting to make him an Avatar and he's just like Nah I'm good. leaving him off the list that's going in the book.
Oh scyla the character so unimpactful that they dropped him from aos and turned him into a bloodbowl star player 😂
Also, Tyrion and Teclis should have been killed of in the old world, just because a character has been jammed into a lot stories does not make them interesting, same for Karl Franz
Neave 1.0 story is miles better than 2.0
Did I miss my girl? Lauka Via?
She's cool, but I am not sure she would score very high sadly.
@VinceVenturella She'd have been down in exists for sure. Probably split halfway into literally who, but her book was a fun little romp.
I kinda think yall did vandus dirty. I think he was bland and stagnant between his start in AoS 1 before the tragic resolution. But i think the end made his arc so much more interesting, possibly one of the most interesting. I wouldn't say he is a chad but IMO the most interesting characters are flawed and not Chads.
Also to eliminate bias, I think stormcast in general are boring and Big Ush and FEC are the coolest