Most incentives offered by the government are a joke I myself applied for boiler and solar panels and was told sorry none left or the cost to fit was way above normal quotes
Great video but could you do one on the ECO4 grants that are open to people on low income and benefits. What you can and can't get and what would make sense to minimise the cost of future improvements. E.g. could I get my rads replaced with bigger ones ready for a heat pump later on. There seems to be lots of websites pretending to be government websites but are in fact suppliers just trying to "sell you" whatever they provide and then get paid by the government.
I wonder if the Heat Geeks could be persuaded to support competent self-builders and DIYers to do their own installs? They could check the design meets the MCS criteria and get the grants, and people like me could still be properly in control of what gets installed and how. I've installed the UFH here already and the old gas CH in both this house and the previous one, and put in my own solar thermal system, and done most of the work on the EnerPhit retrofit here. Putting in a heat pump is not difficult. Getting the sums/design right at the start is the hardest bit. Pretty sure I could make a reasonable fist of that too, but it'd be nice to have a bit of backup from people who've done lots of it.
Thanks for providing such a clear description of the scheme. My take on it is that the scheme will have only a small impact on the price charged by installers to customers. It will be interesting to see how much more installers will charge for a job outside the BUS scheme. I don't think it it will be anything it will be anything like £5k more!
Just had a quote for £12,800 even with the grant that's £7,800 to customer. The heat calculation were quoted at £140. This was a none vat quote that wasn't explained so +20% on that. The £12,800 was with this back aswell. How is this even close in comparison to boiler install? The industry litteraly said to the government with 0% VAT and 5000k grant we can get this close to boilers. Total and utter rubbish. The heating survey was a joke. Wall buildups guessed so u values couldn't have been correct. I'm all for going green but I could have 4 boilers installed for that quote.
The funding system seems to reflect the EV charger funding whereby the installer has to tackle the application and its them that receive the funding, which is deducted from the customer's invoice. You've rightly mentioned the challenges this poses for your small businesses. I know there's many electrical contractors who will install an EV charger but have dropped the opportunity to access the funding, having found they receive the payout of the funding late, any minor anomaly in the paperwork and they don't payout (understandable but frustrating for the smaller businesses already struggling with the paperwork), if the installer is claiming the full amount of funding available per install which isn't a lot to be honest, they are investigated and another opportunity for the payout of funding to be delayed again. The smaller businesses need the cashflow. The Heat Greek umbrella company makes sense and sounds more of a partnership than managing the installer. In my experience it's the big companies who win the large scale tenders, access the funding and turn out a poor job, generally due to poor design, a lack of supervision on site, lack of quality checks and sheer workload where their commitments mean they need to smash them out and onto the next one. Vicious circle really but I hope this can change and the funding be well invested and the customer benefit from a good, reliable, efficient install.
thanks for the great detailed video. Still think it's a really poor scheme. If the government really want people to adopt this technology they need to make it cost competitive and easier for all parties.
Just had a quote for £12,800 even with 5k off that's £7,800. I first looked at the scheme when the government said with £5000 grant and zero % VAT this will make installation of air source heat pumps relatively the same as boilers to install. Considering a boiler is 3k to install... yeah that math don't add up.
I looked through my energy price history excel sheet the other day and noticed something interesting, All my previous quotes/bills for energy a year and more ago were around 5.5:1 electricity to gas - so gas was over 5x cheaper per kw/h. All my recent quotes/bills were around 3-3.5:1 So the government are making air source heat pumps more economically viable! If you can get your scop 3:1 or better then it's cheaper than gas.
As they should.. its cleaner.. its natural market forces atm though not give intervention. Gov intervention has actually kept gas unnaturally cheap through the price cap...
I agree it's cleaner provided powerplants are switched to nuclear and renewable. But 40% is still gas and 10% coal. Air source heat pumps are not economically viable. Our generation is getting stuffed with the boomers bill.
If I understand correctly, the reason more heat pumps are not being installed today is the lack of installers. The biggest barrier to getting more installers is the difficulty in getting registered on the MSc scheme, cost, time, paperwork. 80% of installers are sole traders, and 99% of those sole traders will not be on the MCs scheme. So the MSc scheme is directly hindering the reduction of CO2 & NOx levels in the UK.
@@HeatGeek What HeatGeek are doing, or trying to do, is highly commendable. Should get an MBE for what you're doing. I'll nominate you if you like... My dig is at the MCs scheme
The industry advised the government that with a 5k grant and 0% VAT on installation they would be able to comparatively compete with the cost of a boiler install 2-3k so should be £7000-8000 fully installed costing consumer 2-3k Quotes have been coming back 10-16k
@@HeatGeek I still priced all the equipment up £3500 ASHP vaillant 5kw unitower £1700 equipment £5200 1k ancillaries £6200 at 10k quotes thats still 4K for installation for 1day install
@@HeatGeek yes but considering most properties were converted to combi boilers and 90% of new builds are combi boilers. Reverting back to cylinders relocation radiators. It should have been factored in when industry experts were advising the government that 5k was enough to get it to the same as a boiler install.
@Jonathan Routledge would also depend on property size. Mine is a 1969/70 3 bed semi, cost me £3500 with Octopus after the BUS grant, and that included relocation of tank and upgrade to an unvented one plus 3 new rads.
The grant should also track the installer and blacklist poor installation as well as the building assessment. My own experience I was deeply disappointed two installers didn’t do the house calculation, three said the weather compensation was a waste of money so would be best to leave it on and in the end the final installer did all the calculations and was honest to say given the building construction at the time it maybe cheaper To go gas for the property. We were nuts signing up to a scheme where the majority of home owners and flat owners would rather carry on using the gas. I personally feel a hydrogen mix is the best way forward, the energy requirements especially at 39p a kw just didn’t make it economical in my case and i feel forcing builders into offering something the customer may or may not want . It would be better going forward that new builds must have a cylinder than combi
Hydrogen is a lot more expensive than electricity, something like £8-10/kw. Until we have a vast amount of excess green generation (which is decades away) H2 mix is a red herring.
Air source heat pumps are fantastic in principle if the system is designed correctly. The cost however is ridiculous compared to boilers and developers will avoid them right up until there forced to install them and that will reflect in the cost of a New build
@@JonnyR1981 i have a new ecodan split system in my house in america, the property was refurbished to the latest standards exceeding the US platium requirement, but is less than EU property. basically installed 250mm insulation roof, spray foam closed cell cellar, 25mm room insulaton, and a complete heating upgrade, from heavy oil based to heat pump 2500 ft property, a mix of air to air via the heat ducting using inline units not found in uk. and underfloor as well, 28000 btu unit and it couldn't cope at all the house dropped to 15c when it was -11 and wouldn't heat up. often the duel unit went into defrost cycle forcing the unit into direct heat mode. after that first cold spell we contacted the installer and added an additional 20000 btu unit again duel split air to air, this finally worked at the cost of ascetics but cost a wopping 900 dollars a month to heat using electric without any other electric spending. that with 10KWH solar on the roof granted that was only generating about 2kwh but even so it covered most of the house eclectic needs in the day, and thanks to a hunwai 10 kwh battery covered cooking and light needs till bed time, even with the extra increase in cost ilve now installed a bosch in line combi LPG and tank its cost just one tank to heat the home all winter so may try it in combination to see if its any better or even by its self for a month, right now with such energy prices (last winter it was just 7c per kwh now its 20c , I hate to think just what it would have cost for such a setup in the uk home designed for the same cold level,. at best I had a 1,4 cop in january, at best I have only ever seen a 2.8 co efficient rating., and that was a mild temp for winter here due to lake effect, im all for going green but I feel it was 18,000 wasted, thats even after I have had a different company come and evaluate it, the only recommendation was to supplement with direct heating unit which I've done since, that way I see it air to air is far more efficient than air to water unit but it still cost a lot to run, i may end up ripping it out
@@patrickwheeler2646 H2 mix isn’t a red herring it is necessary for long term energy storage on a grid dominated by renewables. But I agree with you the price of gas will increase. The efficiency to produce green hydrogen from electricity is around 60%. There will be additional losses in storage and transport of the hydrogen. So certainly as the fraction of hydrogen in natural gas increases it will exceed the price of electricity. But that is many years off. Having said all that some electricity in the winter will be produced from some of that hydrogen produced in the summer. And the conversion of hydrogen back into electricity is around 60% today. So electricity in the winter will be even more expensive. So considering you need more heat in the winter it isn’t clear what would be more expensive.
Sorry but gas was 1/3 the price of electricity before the green levy came in. Ashp's that struggle to reach a cop of 3 when heating load is at its highest will still not make economic sense. The only cas where the economics work will be with a lot of PV for the spring and autumn and enough battery capacity to use only cheap tariff electricity in the winter.
Am I correct in thinking that the only way to get an installation at the discounted price is that it has to happen when the installer/MCS holder know they have a voucher available. I'm looking to get a replacement system in the next few months and I could get quotes and set things in motion but then wait months for the next release of vouchers, otherwise the installer is going to go broke or inflate their price?
An alternative view to the bi's scheme? There isn't an alternative view to the bi's scheme. If your talking about an alternative view to heat pumps... here ua-cam.com/video/BHLpJ5hK80k/v-deo.html
Great vid.. not sure this will help my home as the biggest improvement I could make next is insulation.. 1903 build, stone exterior walls, solid internal walls, suspended floor... Guess it's 50mm PIR as far as the eye can see for now.. :)
When a heatpump can be installed as easy as a boiler and for similar price they will sell themselves. Its easy. Put.money in to training and infrastructure or get on with Hydrogen
Really intersting that you guys have created this service. Quick question, we have a non-condensing boiler and are doing some renovation work over the next year that means we need to build where any new boiler would go. Wanting to go underfloor heating downstairs. Just trying to figure out the order of things. Have looked into the Viessmann Vitovalor PT2 as possible option as this is effectively a directly replacement for a hot running system that can modulate down and run cooler when we can improve insulation alongside building works and would be about same cost as heat pump, I think. I'm just wondering in a 1980s house with so so cavity wall insulation but good roof and underfloor insulation, all double glazed whether a heat pump is a better way to go in the medium term, especially given that if gas price levels with electricity over time there is no longer that 'spark gap'.
We are the uks number 1 vitovalor installer by a factor of 10. Always fit a heatvpump first. Your house will be fine on a modern heat pump such as a vailant.
@@HeatGeek Thanks for the reply. Looking at getting some new radiators as part of childrens bedroom refits what detla T should I be looking at for calculating output if thinking heat pump in the future?
@@HeatGeek Thanks again that's what i thought. Final one from me, if I wanting to use your service when is best to get intouch when looking at a renovation/building work being required prior to any installation and that heat pump may actually alter some elements of that design, removing gas main as it needs moving for example or size of bi-folds given availble space for heat pump outside?
@@richardpacker7514good question as early as possible. As you say it influences other choices like which emitter types and also has to be done in conjunction with insulation which we can give full projected reports on.
@@HeatGeek not sure what that means I've done the heat pump course but was told MCS paperwork takes about 2 days a job so that's a waste of £600 plus for the training. At the end of the day I have been enthusiastic for rentable energy for nearly 20 years and will probably fit a heat pump in my own home anyway but I'm not impressed by any scheme that puts my money in jeopardy from incompetent government all belligerent customers.
@@craigcolliass8098 it means you don't need to do the mcs paperwork.. heatvgeek will do it for you. We can't give gov money to people without any accountability.. its not great and a bit of a mess but we need something
@@HeatGeek hi interested in the heat geek thing had a look at the course do I need to sign up to both to be a heat geek and do I have to like the name heat geek?
Hi, love the content. I’ve got a green home grant approved, £10.000, due to my circumstances, through Eon and they have commissioned a MCS approved installer but miles away. However, they want to fit an ideal C130 boiler and an LG heat pump with a buffer tank.. 7k was mentioned. It’s a thee bedroom detached bungalow with a bedroom and bathroom in a loft conversion. I’m confused that they want to put in a gas boiler. They intend to resize the radiators and add three more upstairs where there are no presently no radiators. I have an electric shower and a hot water boiler tap in the kitchen. My bills are very low with my Worcester Bosch boiler, it’s 9 yrs old. I am keen to be green and do my bit and although all this work is going to be free, due to circumstances, I’m still concerned I’m going to be left with high maintenance costs, a system which will still not be fit for the future. The guy that came round, just measured, no mention of a tank…he knew what intended to fit before even got here. I’ve had very little information, just a tick sheet and I signed on a tablet…Eon say, if I’m not happy it’s not compulsory. In other words, they do what they like and don’t want questioning about it. I learned from your content that I can ask for an energy performance report, giving costs. I asked if the air sourced heat pump was weather sensitive they said not, just works off a thermostat …sounds a bit Micky mouse to me. National grid have upgraded my electric to 80 amps from 63 amps. I asked why not 100 amp, they said it wasn’t on the ticket to do that.
My question is what happen to the mono block of cfc gas in these heat pump in 8 years time or 10 years when the boiler cycles have ment is end of life can we safely scrap these boiler or would you need special environment certificate or are we just forgetting about these environmental issues
Soon we will need a hamster wheels installed in our homes to generate electricity because when it becomes a single source of fuel the gov will skyrocket the electricity prices
I trained to fit heat ashp no one can afford them and im too busy running a buisness to take on anymore admin for a job that mite knock on and not happen and loose the voucher its red tape chaos as was the last mcs scheme that i didn't have the back office to achieve lmao
How would a gas installer go about making the change and becoming a heat geek ashp god and regardless of lack of current heat pump installers what kind of numbers would a sole trader be looking at turning over if the jump was to be taken
I have been on and off the idea of MCs registration for a few years. I’m on my own, but could make it work. The thing that I’m wary of is the initial install. I have one booked up now. I will do all the calculations and document it. If it’s not setup initially by an MCS company it’s not legit, so I could end up wasting my customers time. Would the heat geek assured method help me with this initial install?
I live in a very small flat on the 10th floor of a tower block in central London. I’m worried that not only will I need to pay for scaffolding to clamp an air pump on the outside of the building, but I’ll also need to give up my only storage cupboard for a water cylinder. What is a fair solution for people like me? Unfortunately, it’s not unique in central London, and I presume most major cities.
Flats should be heated by district/communal systems. There's no compelling reason why every flat in a block should have a gas boiler, it's madness. Communal heat systems can easily be de-carbonised in the plant room, without needing to rip apart peoples flats.
Green levies linked to EPC is a bit of a worry. I have a GSHP but my specific heat pump is not listed in the PCDB, so default SCOP from the SAP code had to be used which is a good bit lower than the documented SCOP. Result is that the EPC showed my house went down an efficiency band after replacing the oil boiler.
EPCs are a joke. They are not regulated and often the assessment is done by someone employed by the parent building company especially on new builds. Well 2006 regulations on a 2018 house cause the notice to build was submitted on phase 1 builds in 2010 just before 2010 regulations took over.
@@HeatGeek that just a geek tweek surely! One of your approved geeks in Devon is doing the work for us. I did like the CHP that you have at home but he talked me out of it. Would you sell it 😂
Great video , thanks , Our business is moving to heat pump here, a bit worried about grant application as we are a small local business . What about calling it a 5K CASH Back , get the customer to pay the full amount , then give them the 5K back directly When your business finish the job/commissioning/registration ?
I don't think that's allowed under the scheme but will check. Are you becoming mcs? Remeber we offer an mcs service for you.. Also if moving in to heat pumps, system design training is a MUST
@@HeatGeek yes becoming MCS , your system design courses are the first 2 courses you offering on your website ? do I need to go in person or all online only ?
@@Ifitaintbrokedontfixit self build 6 k to 20k because is depends how you measure it.. about 2k more than a boiler though.. I.e. do you include underfloor heating etc Refurb about 4k more than a boiler.. or 10k to 25k
@@HeatGeek Hi, I know the costs and I knew the RHI scheme as we were MCS accredited at one stage. What I was asking was if self build projects and refurbs are eligible for the BUS funding.
@@Ifitaintbrokedontfixit sorry i got you mixed up with another comment. Yes self build and refurb can apply, if the property previously had rhi on a heat pump no.
I’m not sure things will play out as you suggest - consider why are some of the major manufacturers producing hydrogen ready boilers ? I think an alternative may come about for all the existing properties that have gas . Not saying it’ll be 100% hydrogen but a mix that’s just enough to bring the emissions down
@@leomac4886 as a 20% mix yes.. whoch will give a 20% reduction in co2. but heat pumps are already 72% lower in co2 today.. and are dropping dramatically every year..
@@stupidusername38 we strongly recommend the vailant arotherm plus at the moment. A couple of good ones coming from Nibe and viessmann this spring too though. If you want a quote get in touch
@@HeatGeek cheers, at the moment I'm doing my research and I'm right at the very start of this. Got solar PV being installed in April and after that I'll be in the market for ASHP. Luckily I've insulated the property well (rigid PIR insulation between the timber joists in the floorboards), cavity wall insulation and plenty of loft insulation. For each room we slightly oversized the radiators based on BTUs. It's a warm property and it retains heat really well so the heating doesn't need to be on for long. We may have an issue in where to put the hot water cylinder though.
@@HeatGeek a quick question about this. Has the heat pump technology reached its full maturity and maximised its potential or is it tech that is still developing?
@@stupidusername38 Phil has long-standing partnerships with some of the best MCS accredited suppliers and I'm sure can accommodate your needs however you would like.
UPDATES;
Launch date has been pushex back to 23rd May
The Heat Pump Illuminati, there's a t-shirt right there! LOL
What incentive is there for the installer ? Sounds like a car crash system..i can see every job front loaded ..
Most incentives offered by the government are a joke I myself applied for boiler and solar panels and was told sorry none left or the cost to fit was way above normal quotes
Great video but could you do one on the ECO4 grants that are open to people on low income and benefits. What you can and can't get and what would make sense to minimise the cost of future improvements. E.g. could I get my rads replaced with bigger ones ready for a heat pump later on. There seems to be lots of websites pretending to be government websites but are in fact suppliers just trying to "sell you" whatever they provide and then get paid by the government.
I wonder if the Heat Geeks could be persuaded to support competent self-builders and DIYers to do their own installs? They could check the design meets the MCS criteria and get the grants, and people like me could still be properly in control of what gets installed and how. I've installed the UFH here already and the old gas CH in both this house and the previous one, and put in my own solar thermal system, and done most of the work on the EnerPhit retrofit here. Putting in a heat pump is not difficult. Getting the sums/design right at the start is the hardest bit. Pretty sure I could make a reasonable fist of that too, but it'd be nice to have a bit of backup from people who've done lots of it.
Thanks for providing such a clear description of the scheme. My take on it is that the scheme will have only a small impact on the price charged by installers to customers. It will be interesting to see how much more installers will charge for a job outside the BUS scheme. I don't think it it will be anything it will be anything like £5k more!
Ofcourse
Just had a quote for £12,800 even with the grant that's £7,800 to customer. The heat calculation were quoted at £140. This was a none vat quote that wasn't explained so +20% on that. The £12,800 was with this back aswell. How is this even close in comparison to boiler install? The industry litteraly said to the government with 0% VAT and 5000k grant we can get this close to boilers. Total and utter rubbish. The heating survey was a joke. Wall buildups guessed so u values couldn't have been correct. I'm all for going green but I could have 4 boilers installed for that quote.
Really useful information. I'm not an installer by trade and seriously interested in taking you up on the courses.
Once gas boilers are banned the working class still wont be able to fit an ASHP so not sure what's going to happen there in 10 years time.
as a working class peasant, I dont care about carbon footprint. I care about cost of ownership and running costs....
Guys,
This video was invaluable for me.
I will be in touch right away for you guidance on possible installers.
The funding system seems to reflect the EV charger funding whereby the installer has to tackle the application and its them that receive the funding, which is deducted from the customer's invoice. You've rightly mentioned the challenges this poses for your small businesses. I know there's many electrical contractors who will install an EV charger but have dropped the opportunity to access the funding, having found they receive the payout of the funding late, any minor anomaly in the paperwork and they don't payout (understandable but frustrating for the smaller businesses already struggling with the paperwork), if the installer is claiming the full amount of funding available per install which isn't a lot to be honest, they are investigated and another opportunity for the payout of funding to be delayed again. The smaller businesses need the cashflow. The Heat Greek umbrella company makes sense and sounds more of a partnership than managing the installer. In my experience it's the big companies who win the large scale tenders, access the funding and turn out a poor job, generally due to poor design, a lack of supervision on site, lack of quality checks and sheer workload where their commitments mean they need to smash them out and onto the next one. Vicious circle really but I hope this can change and the funding be well invested and the customer benefit from a good, reliable, efficient install.
is the BUS grant the one where you have to be on benefits before you can get it
thanks for the great detailed video. Still think it's a really poor scheme. If the government really want people to adopt this technology they need to make it cost competitive and easier for all parties.
Just had a quote for £12,800 even with 5k off that's £7,800. I first looked at the scheme when the government said with £5000 grant and zero % VAT this will make installation of air source heat pumps relatively the same as boilers to install. Considering a boiler is 3k to install... yeah that math don't add up.
I looked through my energy price history excel sheet the other day and noticed something interesting,
All my previous quotes/bills for energy a year and more ago were around 5.5:1 electricity to gas - so gas was over 5x cheaper per kw/h.
All my recent quotes/bills were around 3-3.5:1 So the government are making air source heat pumps more economically viable! If you can get your scop 3:1 or better then it's cheaper than gas.
Haha - just got to the part you mention this in your video.
As they should.. its cleaner.. its natural market forces atm though not give intervention. Gov intervention has actually kept gas unnaturally cheap through the price cap...
I agree it's cleaner provided powerplants are switched to nuclear and renewable. But 40% is still gas and 10% coal. Air source heat pumps are not economically viable. Our generation is getting stuffed with the boomers bill.
If I understand correctly, the reason more heat pumps are not being installed today is the lack of installers.
The biggest barrier to getting more installers is the difficulty in getting registered on the MSc scheme, cost, time, paperwork.
80% of installers are sole traders, and 99% of those sole traders will not be on the MCs scheme.
So the MSc scheme is directly hindering the reduction of CO2 & NOx levels in the UK.
Their knowledge is probably another larger barrier
Sure.. as we don't run mcs the best we can do is offer an umbrella scheme though..
@@Swwils not trained heat geeks knowledge
@@HeatGeek it's strange because the UK has some amazing engineering. No idea why it doesn't reach domestic market.
@@HeatGeek What HeatGeek are doing, or trying to do, is highly commendable. Should get an MBE for what you're doing. I'll nominate you if you like... My dig is at the MCs scheme
The industry advised the government that with a 5k grant and 0% VAT on installation they would be able to comparatively compete with the cost of a boiler install 2-3k so should be £7000-8000 fully installed costing consumer 2-3k Quotes have been coming back 10-16k
Quotes have changed 0% since the grant came in to place.. except the discount of 5k...
@@HeatGeek I still priced all the equipment up £3500 ASHP vaillant 5kw unitower £1700 equipment £5200 1k ancillaries £6200 at 10k quotes thats still 4K for installation for 1day install
@@JonnyR1981 2 to 3 k for a boiler is just a boiler, not a boiler relocation, conversion to a sealed system and an unvented cylinder upgrade.
@@HeatGeek yes but considering most properties were converted to combi boilers and 90% of new builds are combi boilers. Reverting back to cylinders relocation radiators. It should have been factored in when industry experts were advising the government that 5k was enough to get it to the same as a boiler install.
@Jonathan Routledge would also depend on property size. Mine is a 1969/70 3 bed semi, cost me £3500 with Octopus after the BUS grant, and that included relocation of tank and upgrade to an unvented one plus 3 new rads.
The grant should also track the installer and blacklist poor installation as well as the building assessment. My own experience I was deeply disappointed two installers didn’t do the house calculation, three said the weather compensation was a waste of money so would be best to leave it on and in the end the final installer did all the calculations and was honest to say given the building construction at the time it maybe cheaper To go gas for the property. We were nuts signing up to a scheme where the majority of home owners and flat owners would rather carry on using the gas. I personally feel a hydrogen mix is the best way forward, the energy requirements especially at 39p a kw just didn’t make it economical in my case and i feel forcing builders into offering something the customer may or may not want . It would be better going forward that new builds must have a cylinder than combi
Hydrogen is a lot more expensive than electricity, something like £8-10/kw. Until we have a vast amount of excess green generation (which is decades away) H2 mix is a red herring.
Air source heat pumps are fantastic in principle if the system is designed correctly. The cost however is ridiculous compared to boilers and developers will avoid them right up until there forced to install them and that will reflect in the cost of a New build
@@JonnyR1981 i have a new ecodan split system in my house in america, the property was refurbished to the latest standards exceeding the US platium requirement, but is less than EU property. basically installed 250mm insulation roof, spray foam closed cell cellar, 25mm room insulaton, and a complete heating upgrade, from heavy oil based to heat pump 2500 ft property, a mix of air to air via the heat ducting using inline units not found in uk. and underfloor as well, 28000 btu unit and it couldn't cope at all the house dropped to 15c when it was -11 and wouldn't heat up. often the duel unit went into defrost cycle forcing the unit into direct heat mode. after that first cold spell we contacted the installer and added an additional 20000 btu unit again duel split air to air, this finally worked at the cost of ascetics but cost a wopping 900 dollars a month to heat using electric without any other electric spending. that with 10KWH solar on the roof granted that was only generating about 2kwh but even so it covered most of the house eclectic needs in the day, and thanks to a hunwai 10 kwh battery covered cooking and light needs till bed time, even with the extra increase in cost ilve now installed a bosch in line combi LPG and tank its cost just one tank to heat the home all winter so may try it in combination to see if its any better or even by its self for a month, right now with such energy prices (last winter it was just 7c per kwh now its 20c , I hate to think just what it would have cost for such a setup in the uk home designed for the same cold level,.
at best I had a 1,4 cop in january, at best I have only ever seen a 2.8 co efficient rating., and that was a mild temp for winter here due to lake effect, im all for going green but I feel it was 18,000 wasted, thats even after I have had a different company come and evaluate it, the only recommendation was to supplement with direct heating unit which I've done since, that way I see it air to air is far more efficient than air to water unit but it still cost a lot to run, i may end up ripping it out
@@patrickwheeler2646 H2 mix isn’t a red herring it is necessary for long term energy storage on a grid dominated by renewables. But I agree with you the price of gas will increase. The efficiency to produce green hydrogen from electricity is around 60%. There will be additional losses in storage and transport of the hydrogen. So certainly as the fraction of hydrogen in natural gas increases it will exceed the price of electricity. But that is many years off. Having said all that some electricity in the winter will be produced from some of that hydrogen produced in the summer. And the conversion of hydrogen back into electricity is around 60% today. So electricity in the winter will be even more expensive. So considering you need more heat in the winter it isn’t clear what would be more expensive.
Big gap in the heat geek map in Cambridgeshire, hoping to see that getting filled in soon!
Shouldn't be long the rate trainees are coming through
Sorry but gas was 1/3 the price of electricity before the green levy came in. Ashp's that struggle to reach a cop of 3 when heating load is at its highest will still not make economic sense. The only cas where the economics work will be with a lot of PV for the spring and autumn and enough battery capacity to use only cheap tariff electricity in the winter.
The ones that struggle to reach 3 are olpoorly installed. Boilers are around d 85% efficient.. ergo the gap is wider than 3
I want to do this business
Am I correct in thinking that the only way to get an installation at the discounted price is that it has to happen when the installer/MCS holder know they have a voucher available. I'm looking to get a replacement system in the next few months and I could get quotes and set things in motion but then wait months for the next release of vouchers, otherwise the installer is going to go broke or inflate their price?
The installer has to gamble that they will get the voucher
@@HeatGeek Thanks for the reply, is seems rather precarious given the limited number talked about in the video.
@@chrisbailey1966 it is!.. earlier installs will probably be more expensive than later installs due to the risk
Great watch! But, please bring in a person for alternative view!!!
An alternative view to the bi's scheme? There isn't an alternative view to the bi's scheme.
If your talking about an alternative view to heat pumps... here
ua-cam.com/video/BHLpJ5hK80k/v-deo.html
Great vid.. not sure this will help my home as the biggest improvement I could make next is insulation..
1903 build, stone exterior walls, solid internal walls, suspended floor...
Guess it's 50mm PIR as far as the eye can see for now.. :)
When a heatpump can be installed as easy as a boiler and for similar price they will sell themselves. Its easy. Put.money in to training and infrastructure or get on with Hydrogen
Really intersting that you guys have created this service. Quick question, we have a non-condensing boiler and are doing some renovation work over the next year that means we need to build where any new boiler would go. Wanting to go underfloor heating downstairs. Just trying to figure out the order of things. Have looked into the Viessmann Vitovalor PT2 as possible option as this is effectively a directly replacement for a hot running system that can modulate down and run cooler when we can improve insulation alongside building works and would be about same cost as heat pump, I think. I'm just wondering in a 1980s house with so so cavity wall insulation but good roof and underfloor insulation, all double glazed whether a heat pump is a better way to go in the medium term, especially given that if gas price levels with electricity over time there is no longer that 'spark gap'.
We are the uks number 1 vitovalor installer by a factor of 10. Always fit a heatvpump first. Your house will be fine on a modern heat pump such as a vailant.
@@HeatGeek Thanks for the reply. Looking at getting some new radiators as part of childrens bedroom refits what detla T should I be looking at for calculating output if thinking heat pump in the future?
@@richardpacker7514 aw-at 30 or below. Lower the better
@@HeatGeek Thanks again that's what i thought. Final one from me, if I wanting to use your service when is best to get intouch when looking at a renovation/building work being required prior to any installation and that heat pump may actually alter some elements of that design, removing gas main as it needs moving for example or size of bi-folds given availble space for heat pump outside?
@@richardpacker7514good question as early as possible. As you say it influences other choices like which emitter types and also has to be done in conjunction with insulation which we can give full projected reports on.
Why do I have the impression that those refrigerator engineers think they can actually heat up houses ?
Great for the big companies I'm a one man band can't afford the risk of using this scheme sad reality
We offer all the heat geeks an umbrella scheme so they don't need mcs
@@HeatGeek not sure what that means I've done the heat pump course but was told MCS paperwork takes about 2 days a job so that's a waste of £600 plus for the training.
At the end of the day I have been enthusiastic for rentable energy for nearly 20 years and will probably fit a heat pump in my own home anyway but I'm not impressed by any scheme that puts my money in jeopardy from incompetent government all belligerent customers.
@@craigcolliass8098 it means you don't need to do the mcs paperwork.. heatvgeek will do it for you. We can't give gov money to people without any accountability.. its not great and a bit of a mess but we need something
@@HeatGeek you've got me interested I'm cross with government mishandling things, but I'm not stupid and your scheme sounds good.
@@HeatGeek hi interested in the heat geek thing had a look at the course do I need to sign up to both to be a heat geek and do I have to like the name heat geek?
Does the self-builder have to be MCS certified?
How can I register for myself sceam
What about heat batteries choice - water vs pcm? pcm seems great and much smaller but why so expensive!
Hi, love the content. I’ve got a green home grant approved, £10.000, due to my circumstances, through Eon and they have commissioned a MCS approved installer but miles away. However, they want to fit an ideal C130 boiler and an LG heat pump with a buffer tank.. 7k was mentioned. It’s a thee bedroom detached bungalow with a bedroom and bathroom in a loft conversion. I’m confused that they want to put in a gas boiler. They intend to resize the radiators and add three more upstairs where there are no presently no radiators. I have an electric shower and a hot water boiler tap in the kitchen. My bills are very low with my Worcester Bosch boiler, it’s 9 yrs old. I am keen to be green and do my bit and although all this work is going to be free, due to circumstances, I’m still concerned I’m going to be left with high maintenance costs, a system which will still not be fit for the future.
The guy that came round, just measured, no mention of a tank…he knew what intended to fit before even got here. I’ve had very little information, just a tick sheet and I signed on a tablet…Eon say, if I’m not happy it’s not compulsory. In other words, they do what they like and don’t want questioning about it. I learned from your content that I can ask for an energy performance report, giving costs. I asked if the air sourced heat pump was weather sensitive they said not, just works off a thermostat …sounds a bit Micky mouse to me. National grid have upgraded my electric to 80 amps from 63 amps. I asked why not 100 amp, they said it wasn’t on the ticket to do that.
Sounds like it’s sun contracted and Your installer doesn’t know what they’re doing. Avoid or ask for another installer!
My question is what happen to the mono block of cfc gas in these heat pump in 8 years time or 10 years when the boiler cycles have ment is end of life can we safely scrap these boiler or would you need special environment certificate or are we just forgetting about these environmental issues
8 years? A heat pump should last 20 years. The same as when your fridge or freezer is disposed it should be disposed of in the same way.
Soon we will need a hamster wheels installed in our homes to generate electricity because when it becomes a single source of fuel the gov will skyrocket the electricity prices
The government does not control the wholesale price of electricity.
Thanks guys will be in touch
I trained to fit heat ashp no one can afford them and im too busy running a buisness to take on anymore admin for a job that mite knock on and not happen and loose the voucher its red tape chaos as was the last mcs scheme that i didn't have the back office to achieve lmao
Well that's what assured is for, you don't need a back office or thr voucher risk..
How would a gas installer go about making the change and becoming a heat geek ashp god and regardless of lack of current heat pump installers what kind of numbers would a sole trader be looking at turning over if the jump was to be taken
Just jump on thr heating mastery course.. gas installers are already over half way there. Turnover something like 150 to 200k but utterly depends
air source vs ground source?
I have been on and off the idea of MCs registration for a few years. I’m on my own, but could make it work. The thing that I’m wary of is the initial install. I have one booked up now. I will do all the calculations and document it. If it’s not setup initially by an MCS company it’s not legit, so I could end up wasting my customers time. Would the heat geek assured method help me with this initial install?
Only if you've done the course.
@@HeatGeek I’m interested
Sign up Email sent, thanks Adam 👍🏼
Could a Heat Geek install a "Ground source" heat pump/ battery and get the grant? Maybe something like this: ua-cam.com/video/_cyxlheX-qg/v-deo.html
Depends on the hg in your area. Where are you?
@@HeatGeek Warrington Council England, Conwy Council Wales are 2 sites I am thinking about.
@@cclambie we have a very good engineer covering that area
so 5 or 6 K grant how much for an average 3 bed brick cavtity wall home (1940's) to fully install a system.. already has mains gas and radiators ?
Between 11 and 16k.. minus grant
The heat pumps must be fairly expensive?
I live in a very small flat on the 10th floor of a tower block in central London. I’m worried that not only will I need to pay for scaffolding to clamp an air pump on the outside of the building, but I’ll also need to give up my only storage cupboard for a water cylinder.
What is a fair solution for people like me? Unfortunately, it’s not unique in central London, and I presume most major cities.
Heat pumps aren't for you. There's a few shared ground loop solutions out there but its niche
Flats should be heated by district/communal systems. There's no compelling reason why every flat in a block should have a gas boiler, it's madness. Communal heat systems can easily be de-carbonised in the plant room, without needing to rip apart peoples flats.
Green levies linked to EPC is a bit of a worry. I have a GSHP but my specific heat pump is not listed in the PCDB, so default SCOP from the SAP code had to be used which is a good bit lower than the documented SCOP. Result is that the EPC showed my house went down an efficiency band after replacing the oil boiler.
EPCs are a joke. They are not regulated and often the assessment is done by someone employed by the parent building company especially on new builds. Well 2006 regulations on a 2018 house cause the notice to build was submitted on phase 1 builds in 2010 just before 2010 regulations took over.
I was told to install low energy lights, even though at the time I had the most efficient hue bulbs available. 🤷🏽♂️
New build starting next month. Looking forward to my new Viessmann 200w
Best boiler on the market. Shame about the reduced peramiter options mind
@@HeatGeek that just a geek tweek surely! One of your approved geeks in Devon is doing the work for us. I did like the CHP that you have at home but he talked me out of it. Would you sell it 😂
@@skiiddy we don't really convince one way or the other.. justvpresent all the facts!
Great video , thanks , Our business is moving to heat pump here, a bit worried about grant application as we are a small local business . What about calling it a 5K CASH Back , get the customer to pay the full amount , then give them the 5K back directly When your business finish the job/commissioning/registration ?
I don't think that's allowed under the scheme but will check. Are you becoming mcs? Remeber we offer an mcs service for you..
Also if moving in to heat pumps, system design training is a MUST
@@HeatGeek yes becoming MCS , your system design courses are the first 2 courses you offering on your website ? do I need to go in person or all online only ?
@@7dayplumbingservices195 that course is all online. Don't be mistaken to thinknthatbmakes it easy though
@@HeatGeek No don't you worry , I heard it is demanding . 👍
Great video. Does anyone know if a customer who has previously had an ASHP and claimed RHI would be eligible for the BUS to replace the aged ASHP?
No they can't as they aren't upgrading from a boiler.
Thanks for the reply. How about if you are doing a self build or refurbishment project that has not had heating?
@@Ifitaintbrokedontfixit self build 6 k to 20k because is depends how you measure it.. about 2k more than a boiler though.. I.e. do you include underfloor heating etc
Refurb about 4k more than a boiler.. or 10k to 25k
@@HeatGeek Hi, I know the costs and I knew the RHI scheme as we were MCS accredited at one stage. What I was asking was if self build projects and refurbs are eligible for the BUS funding.
@@Ifitaintbrokedontfixit sorry i got you mixed up with another comment. Yes self build and refurb can apply, if the property previously had rhi on a heat pump no.
I’m not sure things will play out as you suggest - consider why are some of the major manufacturers producing hydrogen ready boilers ? I think an alternative may come about for all the existing properties that have gas . Not saying it’ll be 100% hydrogen but a mix that’s just enough to bring the emissions down
Or hydrogen
The bus scheme does not pay for hydrogen because its decades away.
@@HeatGeek not suggesting the bus scheme pays for H2 but H2 will be an option in some areas before others as well
@@leomac4886 as a 20% mix yes.. whoch will give a 20% reduction in co2. but heat pumps are already 72% lower in co2 today.. and are dropping dramatically every year..
sounds like too many hoops
None for the consumer.. less for the mcs company.. and non if yhe installers using an emberella
what is the lifespan of a gas boiler compared to an air source heat pump if both are serviced annually?
Gas boiler is 8 to 20. Air source the same.
@@HeatGeek any makes and models that you can recommend for reliabilty and performance?
@@stupidusername38 we strongly recommend the vailant arotherm plus at the moment. A couple of good ones coming from Nibe and viessmann this spring too though. If you want a quote get in touch
@@HeatGeek cheers, at the moment I'm doing my research and I'm right at the very start of this. Got solar PV being installed in April and after that I'll be in the market for ASHP. Luckily I've insulated the property well (rigid PIR insulation between the timber joists in the floorboards), cavity wall insulation and plenty of loft insulation. For each room we slightly oversized the radiators based on BTUs. It's a warm property and it retains heat really well so the heating doesn't need to be on for long. We may have an issue in where to put the hot water cylinder though.
@@HeatGeek a quick question about this. Has the heat pump technology reached its full maturity and maximised its potential or is it tech that is still developing?
where do i find a local heat geek in West Yorkshire?
Google "find a heat geek" and you'll find our map 👍🏾
Phil from boosted hp
@@Swwils thanks. I've found the website although no MCS accreditation displayed.
@@stupidusername38 Phil has long-standing partnerships with some of the best MCS accredited suppliers and I'm sure can accommodate your needs however you would like.
@@Swwils thank you I'll give the company a buzz