I’ve watched a lot of you tubes for a lot of topics. If this was the standard for all of them then I would save lots of time. Excellent scripting without rambling. Great graphic slides complementing monologue, amazing that there’s a learning review at the end. I suspect that somebody in the crew knows how to teach! Bravo.
So many Amazon reviewers (for instance), ding a given rifle in their review because of a lack of accuracy. Most reviewers "know" the scope is the problem. The scope is included, and may be low-end, but I'll bet a high percentage of those issues are because of barrel droop and over-adjustment. Now we know WHY it's a problem. This is great info, THANKS.
I realize this is an old post, but I just wanted to mention. I'm always on the lookout for unhappy owners of RWS Diana rifles that have barrel droop and think the rifle is a piece of junk. Last Diana Model 52 I got had a droop of more than 14 inches at 25 yards! No amount of adjusting the scope would bring it close to the bullseye. UTG compensator mount and I needed very little adjustment to get on bullseye. Diana is a beautiful rifle and I'll never buy another break barrel again.
Excellent details shared here. Especially inside the tube and the spring workings. Makes sense now! Just changed out my Centerpoint Scope for a better Leapers UTG - and had to use a Picatinny Mount with Weaver Rings. -10 yards out - 4 inch below target, but a good group lower left. Tried to adjust and just about gained an inch to target. Left/right adjustment had me centered but way low. I was zeroed with Centerpoint to at about 30 yards, my "kill zone" , so I don't not think its barrel droop. I have a .177 Gamo Whisper which i really like! The varmints don't seam to though.
Wow really really great information and insight. Had to like and sud. There is no other video I have seen Man, thanks really for all the great tips tricks and overall information
To determine droop, optically centre your scope and shoot at a cross marked 10 yards away; chances are that you'll shoot low and off to one side. If point of impact is more than 2 inches below then your rifle droops.Shoot 2-3 shots for consistency....
I have watched dozens of videos on scope settings and everything to do with scopes and yet this 11 year old video talks about something ALL the others fail to mention. Thank you for helping me at long long last
Did it and my groupings are PCP worthy on a springer now thanks crosman usually has droop on phantom and optimus family includes nitro piston tec put it on a vice gently and use a leveler and pop can works REMEMBER to look at ur dials if they are almost unscrewed or over halfway unscrewed like 2/3 unscrewed u need to do this it helps
very useful, I think most of the unexperienced airgun lover(included me) may not realize this problem, but they can notice this after watched this vieo
This problem is prevalent with Hatsan 125 the barrel has a slight up and down wriggle. I use iron sights and i fix my problem by pushing the barrel upwards whilst aiming/shooting dead on target.
I love your simple explanation of this problem how much shimming is to much iv lifted my back of my scope 1.75mm is this to much? air gun is AirArms s410 carbine 👍👍👍😜🏴🦄🎣😁✌️
No matter what, even if the barrel is perfectly parallel to the sighting plane, impact will be lower. You have the vertical difference between the 2, obviously. You also have time of flight, which means gravity is making the pellet, bb, or bullet accelerate toward the center of the planet. A one second time of flight will result in 33 ft of bullet drop, in addition to the vertical offset of bore center line and sighting plane. That's why they make collimators, and skilled 'smiths use that tool to set ring heights (or even iron sights) and windage to a "trig zero" with centered adjustment scales for anticipated field zeroing range, at anticipated velocities of load., So adjustments on the sight system are only compensating for vibration and recoil, not the pre-existing geometric anomolies of design and manufacture. That's why 2 piece bases, and drilled and tapped mounting has always been so popular, because the "angular English" is a bit easier to apply in such a system, even pre-made parts being used.
My Ruger Air Hawk has serious droop and shoots left of the stock. I have filed inside the front mount where the tooth grabs the rail with a triangular file, to move the front of the scope to the left. After several tries, I can finally see the front sight at the bottom of the reticle. I have managed to not change the shape of the tooth. I also filed the bottom of the mount to lower it. I guess I won't be returning this one.
I double checked the barrel, it's correct, I compared it to a couple of brand new 350's at the shop. I put a couple of mm ( around 2mm) thick piece of plastic between the front mount and the scope, an now my scope shoots perfectly. I tried to rise the rear before but it shot even higher, so the front end rise worked best, but that is a temporary solution. I will get the Diana mounts and put higher end in front. Hope that works.
I'm thinking about getting the Browning leverage air rifle in .177. I'm not sure if I do get it, if I will bother putting the scope on or not. If I don't, will the iron sights be accurate? Does barrel droop affect iron sights or just optics?
Ok. So, is this the reason why I seem zeroed on a target on a level plane to where my rifle is pointed and when I shoot at a target slightly lower than my rifle is positioned, it shoots lower? Also, when my target is straight on, my rifle seems zeroed. But, when I shoot at a target next to it, say, to the right, it doesn't shoot dead on anymore (windage-wise)?
A nice tutorial on barrel drop, I just purchased a better scope and it is way off ,how much is too much shimming, to get reasonably close I used a business card plus a pop can aluminum strip. Is that too much?
I have a 21 year old old Norica Mod.61, I`ve put upwards of a hundred thousand pellets through this rifle, all shots have been accurate until recently when I had to change the spring because the pellets would not leave the barrel. The barrel droop is now bad enough that I`m seeing the outlines of the O-ring around the breech of the barrel when the barrel is up against the receiver, is cocked and ready, when I fire air definitely escapes the breech O-ring more so than before. What can I do to repair this? Is it the breech surface of the barrel or receiver getting worn?
Thank you for the explanatory vid. I have an RWS Diana 350 magnum .177, and the barrel droops upwards, I am using a BSA stealth tactical scope, used the maximum adjustment range and it still shoots above the crosshairs, the barrel compensation mounts have the rear slightly higher than the front, but in my case I think I need the front higher, any suggestions? Thank you
How far away should you be shooting to determine if you have droop? W/ your scope zeroed in the mid-range, should it be right on @ 10, 20, or 30 yds? At what yardage do you know you have to shim the back? Thx.
I have argentine mauser and having this problem now with new scope. its shooting about 5 and 1/2 inches under at 50 with elevation maxed out. you think I need two L&M cigarette pack lids lol
1 set scope to a certain range 2 fire 3 or more shot to agline the shot to the barrel 3 lock the scope so if you drop it you dont have to reset it again like the leapers scopes which you can lock the turrets so you dont have problem like that
Hi. I just got a Remington Vantage. The scope came with a 4 screw and 2 screw mount. if I put the 2 screw mount in front the scope points way left and of the barrel and way right if mounted at the back of the scope. I was wondering if it is possible that the mount was milled bad? I'm getting pretty frustrated trying to zero in this scope. if I shoot straight with the scope mounted I'm a good 5-10" from where I was aiming
When the erector spring(s) is/are fully relaxed, there is even the danger of them falling off their places and be loose inside the scope tube. Somehow this video reminds me of TV News footages I've seen of Gitmo. Am not sure why?
I have a new crosman nitro venom that I got from pyramyd air the barrel and scope angle is way off to the right. I have the scope adjusted almost all the way to the left in fact i adjusted it all the way to the left and ended up going about half a turn back to the right to get it sighted in to 30' I have conciderd shiming it on the weaver rail but I'm looking into an adjustable mount. any advice?
i just bought a gamo bull whisper extreme .22 with a 3-9x40AO scope. at 25 yards, i am shooting about 4" high and i cannot adjust the scope any lower. is this the opposite of barrel droop? can this happen? what do i do?? please help!!!!!!!!
It was so bad that I didn't want to turn the scope adjustment screws that far. I thought it would be better to "rough it in" by tinkering with the mounts first.
I dont like the shimming , it gets tension on the scope tube ,and thats not a good idea(thats why there are lapping tools, to get the mount excact in line when mounted on the gun), .In the case of a break barrel airgun ,that droops down , its easy with a file to take some material of the barrel where its resting when closed ,and you can check the barrel cilinder line with a workbench or so and a few v blocks , the gun wil shoot more accurate because the vibrations are more in the straight barrel line, With under levers or site levers ,its more difficult ,bending the barrel direct where its out the frame(the last inch of the barrel gives the direction) or remove the barrel and bore and rebushing in the desired line if there is body metal enough . And a scope mount that can be can be canted and adjusted second best
This is not the way to Shim, you will damage the scope! the vertical sides of the mount will crush the scope sides. this is simple geometry. Think about it!
You gotta be kiddin' me!! Instead of trying to correct the "barrel droop" - you compensate for it by shimming the scope!?!?? Well, then!!! > The next time my breaks are going on my car, I'll adjust my accelerator to not press so hard. > If the front end of my car goes out of alignment: No problem, I'll just adjust the rear axle to point sideways so I can drive straight. (No matter that the passengers-side of the car now travels down the highway in front.) > If I should get a tooth cavity, no problem, I'll just wear down all my teeth to match the depth of the cavity. > The next time my hard drive starts to click in my computer, no problem, I'll just mount sound dampeners around it. > I'd write more of these, but I have to go now because there is a very, very strong odor of gas in my house that's making me dizzy and I have to find the air-freshener spray. Cya!
The barrel is straight. It's the angle that the barrel connects to the "receiver." It's like it doesn't close flush or something. But I've seen videos about (maybe) what you are talking about. But that actually involves bending the barrel. -- But thanks for the advice.
More crap. Barrel droop means that if you compensate for it the piston will be moving at an angle to the barrel not the best set up for any sort of accuracy. If you have this problem the only way to fix it is to have the hinge re drilled in the correct alignment not difficult but expensive. Have fun be safe.
Dresden Ashby yes but in gun prices 500dollar guns are not expensive guns. Expensive in my eyes means the higher price range from whats available. Or lets take cars. There are new cars you can buy for 10k or even less. But there are also cars that are over 1 million. So do's that make a 10k car an expensive car? No its prettymuch the cheapest car you can buy. But to most people 10k is a lot of money so is it something expensive to buy yes, but its not an expensive car.
I’ve watched a lot of you tubes for a lot of topics. If this was the standard for all of them then I would save lots of time. Excellent scripting without rambling. Great graphic slides complementing monologue, amazing that there’s a learning review at the end. I suspect that somebody in the crew knows how to teach! Bravo.
Airgun Academy has THE best video's and this is one of the most informative of them all.
Extremely helpful and well presented. Was getting perfect shots one day and then the next shots were all over the vertical plane. Will try shimming.
So many Amazon reviewers (for instance), ding a given rifle in their review because of a lack of accuracy. Most reviewers "know" the scope is the problem. The scope is included, and may be low-end, but I'll bet a high percentage of those issues are because of barrel droop and over-adjustment.
Now we know WHY it's a problem.
This is great info, THANKS.
I realize this is an old post, but I just wanted to mention.
I'm always on the lookout for unhappy owners of RWS Diana rifles that have barrel droop and think the rifle is a piece of junk.
Last Diana Model 52 I got had a droop of more than 14 inches at 25 yards! No amount of adjusting the scope would bring it close to the bullseye.
UTG compensator mount and I needed very little adjustment to get on bullseye.
Diana is a beautiful rifle and I'll never buy another break barrel again.
Nice. you have explained and clarified a very old problem for me.
Thank You!
Excellent details shared here. Especially inside the tube and the spring workings. Makes sense now! Just changed out my Centerpoint Scope for a better Leapers UTG - and had to use a Picatinny Mount with Weaver Rings. -10 yards out - 4 inch below target, but a good group lower left. Tried to adjust and just about gained an inch to target. Left/right adjustment had me centered but way low.
I was zeroed with Centerpoint to at about 30 yards, my "kill zone" , so I don't not think its barrel droop. I have a .177 Gamo Whisper which i really like! The varmints don't seam to though.
Thanks for this video, it makes sense now.
I was very frustrated trying to zero the scope and thinking that my vision just went berserk!
Ecellent excellent video, thank you for taking the effort to make it!
Excellent video, after placing a shim on my rear scope mount I was then able to adjust the scope to pin point accuracy.
Wow really really great information and insight. Had to like and sud. There is no other video I have seen Man, thanks really for all the great tips tricks and overall information
Well done and now I know what the guy at my local store was talking about☺, now I don't just have to smile and nod when we talk again😅.
thanks you solved my problem,excellent video and tutorial well explained
To determine droop, optically centre your scope and shoot at a cross marked 10 yards away; chances are that you'll shoot low and off to one side. If point of impact is more than 2 inches below then your rifle droops.Shoot 2-3 shots for consistency....
Thanks you have helped me out big time. Good vid
I just made a couple of shims out of a plastic lid and just resighted my low shooting Daisy 880 in. That's just what it needed. Thanks. :)
Thanks for this information. Thanks from Mexico.
Outstanding video.
Thanks mate you saved my day.
This is GREAT keep posting.
Fantastic video! You kept me from breaking my new scope because I couldn't get it zeroed! Thank you :)
great vid! I personally have never had to deal with this problem. But I am sure that longer range shooters this is a more common problem.
I can't get over how professionally this vid has been done --- very impressive. How long did this take to make?
Good info. Much appreciated.
Excellent information!
Extremely useful information
I have watched dozens of videos on scope settings and everything to do with scopes and yet this 11 year old video talks about something ALL the others fail to mention. Thank you for helping me at long long last
Did it and my groupings are PCP worthy on a springer now thanks crosman usually has droop on phantom and optimus family includes nitro piston tec put it on a vice gently and use a leveler and pop can works REMEMBER to look at ur dials if they are almost unscrewed or over halfway unscrewed like 2/3 unscrewed u need to do this it helps
Even true for a crossbow of mine (Zubin), which has kind of a loose barrel to hold the arrows.
very useful, I think most of the unexperienced airgun lover(included me) may not realize this problem, but they can notice this after watched this vieo
Freaking love these videos
This problem is prevalent with Hatsan 125 the barrel has a slight up and down wriggle. I use iron sights and i fix my problem by pushing the barrel upwards whilst aiming/shooting dead on target.
I love your simple explanation of this problem how much shimming is to much iv lifted my back of my scope 1.75mm is this to much? air gun is AirArms s410 carbine
👍👍👍😜🏴🦄🎣😁✌️
No matter what, even if the barrel is perfectly parallel to the sighting plane, impact will be lower. You have the vertical difference between the 2, obviously. You also have time of flight, which means gravity is making the pellet, bb, or bullet accelerate toward the center of the planet. A one second time of flight will result in 33 ft of bullet drop, in addition to the vertical offset of bore center line and sighting plane. That's why they make collimators, and skilled 'smiths use that tool to set ring heights (or even iron sights) and windage to a "trig zero" with centered adjustment scales for anticipated field zeroing range, at anticipated velocities of load., So adjustments on the sight system are only compensating for vibration and recoil, not the pre-existing geometric anomolies of design and manufacture. That's why 2 piece bases, and drilled and tapped mounting has always been so popular, because the "angular English" is a bit easier to apply in such a system, even pre-made parts being used.
I have a Weihrauch HW97 drooper. Had to use adjustable mounts.
My Ruger Air Hawk has serious droop and shoots left of the stock. I have filed inside the front mount where the tooth grabs the rail with a triangular file, to move the front of the scope to the left. After several tries, I can finally see the front sight at the bottom of the reticle. I have managed to not change the shape of the tooth. I also filed the bottom of the mount to lower it. I guess I won't be returning this one.
I double checked the barrel, it's correct, I compared it to a couple of brand new 350's at the shop. I put a couple of mm ( around 2mm) thick piece of plastic between the front mount and the scope, an now my scope shoots perfectly. I tried to rise the rear before but it shot even higher, so the front end rise worked best, but that is a temporary solution. I will get the Diana mounts and put higher end in front. Hope that works.
I'm thinking about getting the Browning leverage air rifle in .177. I'm not sure if I do get it, if I will bother putting the scope on or not. If I don't, will the iron sights be accurate? Does barrel droop affect iron sights or just optics?
Ok. So, is this the reason why I seem zeroed on a target on a level plane to where my rifle is pointed and when I shoot at a target slightly lower than my rifle is positioned, it shoots lower? Also, when my target is straight on, my rifle seems zeroed. But, when I shoot at a target next to it, say, to the right, it doesn't shoot dead on anymore (windage-wise)?
Thank you much.
Good video. It helped me a lot as I’d “run out of clicks”
A nice tutorial on barrel drop, I just purchased a better scope and it is way off ,how much is too much shimming, to get reasonably close I used a business card plus a pop can aluminum strip. Is that too much?
I have a 21 year old old Norica Mod.61, I`ve put upwards of a hundred thousand pellets through this rifle, all shots have been accurate until recently when I had to change the spring because the pellets would not leave the barrel.
The barrel droop is now bad enough that I`m seeing the outlines of the O-ring around the breech of the barrel when the barrel is up against the receiver, is cocked and ready, when I fire air definitely escapes the breech O-ring more so than before.
What can I do to repair this? Is it the breech surface of the barrel or receiver getting worn?
I don't think this could get better, i guess ima have to try shimming my rws 34 for the winter. the cold has a much bigger effect than i would think.
Thank you for the explanatory vid. I have an RWS Diana 350 magnum .177, and the barrel droops upwards, I am using a BSA stealth tactical scope, used the maximum adjustment range and it still shoots above the crosshairs, the barrel compensation mounts have the rear slightly higher than the front, but in my case I think I need the front higher, any suggestions? Thank you
How far away should you be shooting to determine if you have droop? W/ your scope zeroed in the mid-range, should it be right on @ 10, 20, or 30 yds? At what yardage do you know you have to shim the back? Thx.
i get barrel droop when I drink to much
I don’t think you really mean barrel drop...barrel drop is something else!
🤣
Wish I would have seen this sooner... Lol. Will be shimming my scope on my next day off.
How do we find out if we have a drooper ?
i mounted two scopes and I thought both are broken. Thanks
I have argentine mauser and having this problem now with new scope. its shooting about 5 and 1/2 inches under at 50 with elevation maxed out. you think I need two L&M cigarette pack lids lol
thank you
what if your barrel droops up, and what do u do to make the spring in the scope
not relact
That IGT system destroyed my 3-9x40AO on a CFX(upgraded with IGT) so I highly doubt that a whisper will be able to shoot wiht it without damaging it.
1 set scope to a certain range
2 fire 3 or more shot to agline the shot to the barrel
3 lock the scope so if you drop it you dont have to reset it again
like the leapers scopes which you can lock the turrets
so you dont have problem like that
Diana 460 = which best scope ?
But can you have the opposite ? And then have to shim the front ?
nice video .
Hi. I just got a Remington Vantage. The scope came with a 4 screw and 2 screw mount. if I put the 2 screw mount in front the scope points way left and of the barrel and way right if mounted at the back of the scope. I was wondering if it is possible that the mount was milled bad? I'm getting pretty frustrated trying to zero in this scope. if I shoot straight with the scope mounted I'm a good 5-10" from where I was aiming
My barrel on my weihrauch hw35 seems to be pointing upwards slightly. Would you say thats a good thing ?
When the erector spring(s) is/are fully relaxed, there is even the danger of them falling off their places and be loose inside the scope tube. Somehow this video reminds me of TV News footages I've seen of Gitmo. Am not sure why?
I have a new crosman nitro venom that I got from pyramyd air the barrel and scope angle is way off to the right. I have the scope adjusted almost all the way to the left in fact i adjusted it all the way to the left and ended up going about half a turn back to the right to get it sighted in to 30' I have conciderd shiming it on the weaver rail but I'm looking into an adjustable mount. any advice?
i just bought a gamo bull whisper extreme .22 with a 3-9x40AO scope. at 25 yards, i am shooting about 4" high and i cannot adjust the scope any lower. is this the opposite of barrel droop? can this happen? what do i do?? please help!!!!!!!!
When I mounted my Scope on my Weihrauch 97k the first shot was about 1cm off the aimpoint on 15 meters. Weihrauch forerver!
take a break barrel hw or diana ,9 out 10 times the barrel is looking down
My HW30s shoots over a foot high with the crosshairs turned all the way down.
do pcps have straight barrel
It was so bad that I didn't want to turn the scope adjustment screws that far. I thought it would be better to "rough it in" by tinkering with the mounts first.
thanks i find the sights on the gun are rubbish but obviously with a scope it makes it better. thanks for the reply.
I dont like the shimming ,
it gets tension on the scope tube ,and thats not a good idea(thats why there are lapping tools, to get the mount excact in line when mounted on the gun),
.In the case of a break barrel airgun ,that droops down ,
its easy with a file to take some material of the barrel where its resting when closed ,and you can check the barrel cilinder line with a workbench or so and a few v blocks , the gun wil shoot more accurate because the vibrations are more in the straight barrel line,
With under levers or site levers ,its more difficult ,bending the barrel direct where its out the frame(the last inch of the barrel gives the direction) or remove the barrel and bore and rebushing in the desired line if there is body metal enough .
And a scope mount that can be can be canted and adjusted second best
Do you think the Nitro Venom Dusk ($199) have barrel droop?
At more then 110yards, I begin to miss even when fully stable
110 yds is out of the effective range of the air rifle.
need to upgrade bro, 30 cal
Miss these videos
We too actually :(
I want the proper way to hook up the telescope on a weapon m14
This is not the way to Shim, you will damage the scope! the vertical sides of the mount will crush the scope sides. this is simple geometry. Think about it!
Shim UP the FRONT of the scope
I don't think I would use paper as a shim. Otherwise nice video Thank You
Yes... Get another rifle and see if its the scope or the rifle and when you know what it is... Take / send it back and replace it with a new one!
So complicated man what happened to just point and shot
You gotta be kiddin' me!! Instead of trying to correct the "barrel droop" - you compensate for it by shimming the scope!?!??
Well, then!!!
> The next time my breaks are going on my car, I'll adjust my accelerator to not press so hard.
> If the front end of my car goes out of alignment: No problem, I'll just adjust the rear axle to point sideways so I can drive straight. (No matter that the passengers-side of the car now travels down the highway in front.)
> If I should get a tooth cavity, no problem, I'll just wear down all my teeth to match the depth of the cavity.
> The next time my hard drive starts to click in my computer, no problem, I'll just mount sound dampeners around it.
> I'd write more of these, but I have to go now because there is a very, very strong odor of gas in my house that's making me dizzy and I have to find the air-freshener spray. Cya!
RackAttackGamer Try'n straighten the barrel.
The barrel is straight. It's the angle that the barrel connects to the "receiver." It's like it doesn't close flush or something. But I've seen videos about (maybe) what you are talking about. But that actually involves bending the barrel. -- But thanks for the advice.
Excellent video. I am facing similar problem, Thank you
huh huh huh he said "erector tube" hu huh
More crap. Barrel droop means that if you compensate for it the piston will be moving at an angle to the barrel not the best set up for any sort of accuracy. If you have this problem the only way to fix it is to have the hinge re drilled in the correct alignment not difficult but expensive. Have fun be safe.
so even 500 dollar plus rifles suffer from this bullshit too ?
500dollar plus rifles are not expensive rifles so yes they will. Expensives rifles are 3000dollars
bob rosco 500 dollars is expensive for most people. I bought a Remington 870 express in 12 gauge for less...
Dresden Ashby yes but in gun prices 500dollar guns are not expensive guns. Expensive in my eyes means the higher price range from whats available. Or lets take cars. There are new cars you can buy for 10k or even less. But there are also cars that are over 1 million. So do's that make a 10k car an expensive car? No its prettymuch the cheapest car you can buy. But to most people 10k is a lot of money so is it something expensive to buy yes, but its not an expensive car.
Lol our car was 900 bucks.
This is terrible