LMAO, as a Marine "vet" (whom usually takes the brunt most the time) when you said "I'm not a Navy SEAL, so I don't like to talk about myself" I laughed and hit that like button!
In MY opinion, your 20 MOA rail explanation was "perfect". I found it both understandable a accurate (no pun intended). Hopefully, it helped a lot of people out as I think it may be one of the most misunderstood concepts I see in optics mounting.
Hi and I want to say that I have a great deal of respect for your Knowledge and Experience. I have recently purchased a brand new wheeler scope leveling tool. My Father a mechanic by trade that could build houses or do pretty much anything that required intelligence and ambition, taught me a very valuable lesson about buying and testing levels (in fact I remember feeling uncomfortable while he was telling the hardware store owner that he only had one level in the store that was actually level and plum. I would have been about 6 yrs old). The way you prove That a level is actually level is to find a surface that is very very close to level and flat that has position repeatability (lines and edges that are perpendicular to each other). Place the level on the surface and pay an extreme amount of attention to the bubbles position left to right and swing the level 180 degrees to the exact same spot and see if the level bubble placement lands in the exact same spot (If the bubble has shifted the level has error in it my friend). I hope that you double check your levels and then I can tell you how to make them work accurately even though they have error. Thanks for the Brilliant content and information. Thanks again Donnie
After listening to the first three to four minutes......this is the first thought I had. LOL The problem with youtube....is folks don't just get to the point. I don't have all day to listen to you all.....just want to learn something and move on. Good video once you got to the point.
@rebel1988yota there is a fine line between "talking about yourself" and establishing your technical experience. Look at many you tubers.....they are not really qualified to give their opinions. This guy is.
@@ExFed2021 I don't doubt his credentials.....all the more reason to just get to the point. Lots of great info on his account, that's why I keep watching.
@@nismojukerich2994 Constructive criticism isn't complaining. Fact is...he has great content....no need for the 4 minutes of yapping your lips, just get to the point. Simple. If the Content provider doesn't like my criticism....he can say something or he can improve his content. Really is that simple. If he doesn't want criticism, he shouldn't put video's on youtube. Continue on......
I was considering mounting my Leupold Mk-5 to a slightly canted Sig Cross in order to create a custom fit to the most natural/comfortable cheek weld.... Your education on the MOA rail likely saved me a lot of future frustration....
I watched hours and hours of videos and Brownell just released a video saying the same info in this video. That set me on the right path and now I discovered this video. Planning to mount my scope next week
Dude I thought I knew a lot about mounting scopes ! Your videos have shown me I’m ignorant and need you to come to SD and teach me! I love your videos. Your last video on mounting scopes is exactly how I’ve been mounting them for years. But now after this video I realize I know very little. I’d love you to come to my area and give a class for a few days and mount scopes for long range work. Then let’s shoot them and prove out you concepts. I need more of your knowledge please.
Gary, I just recently discovered your videos/channel and am favorably impressed - not only with the information you present, but perhaps especially with the quality of your presentation. This is yet another excellent instructional video and is very valuable to those of us intent on “getting it right”. Hooo-ah!
Thanks Marty, that means a lot! I’m glad you found us and appreciate your kind words. Hope to see you in the comments often. Join us on Fridays for our livestreams! -Gary
I legit was writing a comment on your how to video that my gun would crack a groundhog out to 400 yards no problem but past that im way off and i had no clue what was going on until i watched your how to video for mounting and your long target. I never had a target explained the way u did in that video which opened my eyes. Since i was a kid we always checked to make sure everything was zeroed a inch high at 100 but never once did i see a long target used the way u explained. Im pumped i believe u have changed my game 100%. Every scope ive had put on in the last 30 years is about to get long targeted. But honetly we always used 2nd fp i been using ffp for last couple years on my newer guns and im loving them. With this information it will sure clean up my groundhog percentage past 600. It always took 3 or 4 to get on target if it didnt run by then just assumed it was wind out at distance but now i understand thank u. This just kinda cemented everything from the part 1 and part 2 videos. So glad i humbled myself into watching them. Really appriciate u taking the time to explain all of this to us for free. I bought your scope mounting kit a couple scopes ago but i never watched part 2 til recently. Prob be trying the long target out tmrw if i can find them somewhere if not ill make one but regardless this is happening tmrw. After i set my scope up tonight.
Thank you for this lecture! I never was aware of it. I followed your instructions and made the necessary corrections. I also used a bubble level that fastens to the rail.
Great presentation. I think that a canted scope poses problems as detailed in the scope erector illustration even with a zero rail/base but only at noticeable distance when substantially elevating. Bravo on the excellent presentation.
Excellent and very straight forward! Personally, I love the math involved as this level is a walk in the park. I am really enjoying getting back into being on the range. Being someone that ran an electrical standards lab (defense), I always question my measurements.
Thanks for taking the time to make this, easy to follow and just logical. the tall target test is verification of your advice and verification of a good setup, plan and simple 😊👍
i was already familiar with the information but, i really enjoyed the way you came across putting it out there. will be checking out more info from you for sure. thanks
So I am a Tool and Die maker, Hitting .0001 of an inch on a CNC is much harder to do than you think, there is also the fitup between the male and female screws, on top of the other surfaces that need to be machined, each one of those things has a tolerance and they stack. A bubble level isn't super precise in the world of machining either, they make specialty machinist levels that are far more accurate. I am not arguing that this isn't the best way to do it, because that is outside my wheelhouse, I don't level scopes professionally, even if this is the best way of doing it though, there will be error.
I don’t disagree with any of that but with multimillion dollar companies that have decent QC processes in place, the surfaces are flat, level and parallel within a tolerance more than adequate to level the scope. And you’re right bubble levels are not that accurate and that is what you use to level. My point is the surfaces are WAY more accurate than the levels. To properly level a scope we need to get within less than 1 degree. The accuracy of the surfaces even with all tolerances and imperfections stacked will not hold us back from achieving that. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your thoughtful input and experience! -Gary
Thanks for all these videos, very informative! I'm a former US Army Sapper myself, so I know CQB well enough. Precision long range shooting? Not so much. I've got alot to learn, and it's great to be able to hear it from a subject matter expert.
How satisfying it was to finally have someone addressing these Myths! Most people “know” stuff without understanding the why and how behind… Specially the canted scope on the rifle, like Hodnett said “it must be level to the world” but again, understand why and how makes you realize the added variant of a moa rail in the equation. Just discovered your channel! You got me subscribed and will definitely be looking forward for your content! Ps. Here the saying is, how do you know if a guy is a sniper… don’t worry he will tell you! 😂 Nice video! Cheers! 🇨🇦
Much respect for a great video. Its not often that I come across a video that's truly useful. Ive been shooting and hunting for over 40 years and have seen many changes in the industry over that time. You provided one of the best informative and instructional videos I have every viewed. It shows that you enjoy what you do. Thanks for your service and last like you I dont like trolls who know less than nothing and act like clowns. Just keyboard warriors hiding behind a computer screen where they dont have to answer for their actions.
Great video, my takeaway, always verify my mounting work and the scope quality by shooting a turret tracking test no matter what mounting method is used. With your mounting method, I might be tempted to attach the ant-cant bubble while the scope is off the rifle sitting square on it’s bottom turret housing on a level surface if it balanced well.
New here. I was actually researching new scopes for my crossbow and came about your channel. I watched the one on leveling the gun and mounting the scope to be level to the gun. Being a lifetime engineer this makes total sense. Thanks for sharing your experience in our armed forces and thank you for your service! Keep up the great videos to help us all become better marksmen/markswomen, both on the range, self-defense, and ethical harvesting of our game.
Glad you found us Steve! Welcome to the Paramount family! We look forward to seeing you in the comments often. Make sure to join us live on Fridays! If you ever have any questions don’t hesitate to contact me either on here or via email. Thanks, Gary
Mounted My Arken EP5 and followed your video. Went to range and at 100 yrds. After zero averaged sub .5 MIN. ON Every grouping. Using Budget build Axis 2 precision. I will always mount my scopes with your method from now on. Ive shot this 6.5 creedmoor to 1120yrds at a 30" gong.
Good video I actually thinking about remounting my scope with a rail on my Remington 700 tactical 308 and I was debating whether to go with a zero MOA or a 20 MOA very informative. I’ll try to do my best and go with your advice. Thank you.
@@johnknorr1140 if you do, here’s my updated complete guide to scope mounting. Part II is on the channel as well. How To Mount A Scope The Right Way - Precision Scope Mounting - Part 1 of 2 ua-cam.com/video/OG8CchRYlDw/v-deo.html
@paramounttactical you posted this a year ago and you're still responding to your viewers to help them. Between the excellent quality of this video and what I just said you've quickly earned another subscriber sir. I hope all is well on your end in these troubling times, thank you for the great video
I've found that using a flat steel ruler is even easier than using the wheeler levels. Just get the scope somewhat snug in the rings so it will only rotate with some force applied to it, then rest one edge of the ruler on your pic rail while lifting the other edge to contact the flat bottom of your scope tube. It's super fast and as long as you use a good quality ruler like a Starrett your scope will be perfectly level.
🤔 pretty smart. I can’t think of a reason that wouldn’t work for mounting in rings. Probably wouldn’t work on most mounts given they don’t typically have flats below turret housing but for rings it’s quite brilliant. Thanks for sharing and watching! I might have to do a video on that and I’ll be sure to give you credit. This channel is meant to be a community and sharing info like this is what makes us all better! Thanks, Gary
Great video, very thorough explanations! I understood the basics of what you talked about prior to watching the video, but now I understand it more in depth of the what and why.
There's a lot to take in & I appreciate you taking the time to explain it all. What I discovered recently is a jig you slide between the rail & bottom of the scope& when fully forward creates a perfectly level scope. It's all about geometry (in my mind anyway😁) Not sure if you've seen or had chance to use one.
Just found your channel and I’m glad I did. I’m just getting in to long distance shooting and your vids are way helpful. Thank you for your service and your info.
Thanks for the info. I am new to scopes and this definitely is good to know. I did use the turrets to mount my scope and i was very cautious to make sure the scope was level with a level.
I'm glad you made this video because I leveled the rifle with a magwell vice with some wobble. Hence, it appears my cross hairs are very close to being verticle to plumb Bob, but mr Bob shows some error.
1st off …. Thank You For Your Service Brother 2nd … I am a long range shooter as well and I agree on 100% of everything you discussed in your video. Nice Job!!
Good evening Gary! Discovered your channel yesterday. Awesome videos. I’m currently setting up a PCP air rifle for bench rest shooting. I have a Valdada Crusader-2 FFP scope I am trying to get mounted. Never had an issue mounting a scope until now. Watched this video and your scope mounting one to see if I’m missing something. So this evening I took off the scope to start over. I have a Tipton best bench gun vise and I’m also using the Wheeler scope leveling kit. Just like in your video, I have the gun level in both axis, before putting on the the barrel level. After double checking multiple times, the gun is perfectly leveled and secure. Before placing the scope in the rings, I made sure the countertop is flat and level, and set the scope down on the counter to check the turret level and the cross hair. Everything is perfect. Now here is where it gets interesting. Once I place the scope in the rings, and level the scope with the same reference level from the Wheeler set, and then look through the scope, the vertical cross hair is canted and pointed to approximately the 350 degree mark if you were looking at a compass rose. Mind you the level is on the elevation turret and is completely level. Makes zero since to me!! The only way I can get the cross hair squared is to turn the scope which then puts the turret not level and I have to use a laser line on the wall to get the cross hair squared to a leveled gun in both axis. Any input would greatly be appreciated!! Keith
@@paramounttactical But this is the strange part. With the scope setting on the counter, which I verified flat and level, and then placing the level on top of it, the cross hair is completely square and plumb. It only changes when put in the scope rings. I hope it’s not the internals. This Valdada is a $3800 scope!
@@paramounttactical I know. I’m completely baffled! Using the Wheeler level, just checked both ways on the counter. I’m using our island counter, which is quartz, so about as flat as you can be. I’ve got the scope base flat on the counter and have my laser level shining on the wall. The cross hair matches perfect. By the way, THANK YOU, for your service time. I’m an O4 in the Navy and just over 28 years. Almost finished. Can’t wait!!
@@keithrush4168 thank you for your service as well. So when it’s on the counter which you confirmed level, you confirm the turret is level and confirm reticle is level using your laser? And it’s good? Then you put in mount, confirm optic is level with with level on turret, and then use laser to check reticle and the reticle is not plumb?
Thank You Gary!! Great Info.. Opened my eyes on a lot. I didn’t think a bubble level could be off much. I have always used plumb bob and I’ve never shot a tall target to check anything but I will soon.
Definitely shoot a tall target test. You can even make one at home. Shooting that test is the only real way to know your optic is square and tracking correctly. Thanks for watching! -Gary
The higher a scope is mounted the less elevation adjustment is available. More critical for long range work (e.g., 600 yds +). Also high mounting can interfere with a good consistent cheek weld. Removable cheek risers will help obtain a good cheek weld and you don't have to drill through the buttstock.
Great information, so many people don't know you can place a small piece of a mirror on the front of their scope [this will give a reflection of the reticle] to check the reticle inside the scope, this will tell if the reticle is centered up-down -left-right..
You absolutely can but that only tells you so much. People also tend to adjust their guns to make the reticle plumb. Just bc your reticle is plumb in the mirror, doesn’t mean your optic is plumb to the gun, or the reticle is plumb to the optic. It all matters. How you mount a scope is ultimately irrelevant. What is important is to test and the only way to confirm all the above (or diagnose issues) is to shoot a tall target test. If you don’t confirm on a tall target, you’re just assuming you’re good. Thanks for watching! -Gary
Only knew about tall target test as a way to determine velocity w/o a chrono and verify turret tracking accuracy (e.g., how true the MOA/MIL is). This knowledge of erector being square internally vs thinking environmental conditions causing POI being from where doped had my mind going WHOA! That's it! I'm a Subscriber! I do overkill scope mounting with Wheelers Pro kit and ARISAKA leveling tool, and only have one 20 MOA rail that will get this new info treatment Thanks.
Awesome vid! New to your channel and precision shooting and you have been my guide! Question though, won’t canting the rifle with even a 0 moa rail cause wind age/elevation dialing issues since you will at some point have to dial for elevation and holding the rifle sideways will no longer put the scope directly over the center of the barrel and your cross point of scope and bullet trajectory will crossed horizontally and vertically? For example if you hold your rifle 45 deg, in order for the scope to cross the bullets path you will have to dial to the right and down and the further you look in the scope the further to the right the scopes trajectory is from the bullets path so you have to dial left and down to adjust for further distances? So sorry for the poorly worded explanation, this is something I have been thinking about for a while and wanted to pick your brain in case I am way off Thanks!!
Yes, chanting the rifle with 0 MOA once the optic is attached will cause variation. If you install the optic slightly canted and level the optic, causing the rifle to be canted with optic level, will cause little to no impact variation. The optic being level is what matters the most. Optimally the optic and the rifle are on the same plane.
💯! I don’t mind people thinking I’m wrong as long as I’ve done all I can do to make the case. While it can be frustrating when people say you’re wrong or disagree with you I try to look at it as my fault for not making my case well enough. After a video like this that illustrates why I believe what I do or use the methodology that I use, if you still disagree, well… you do you. 😂 Thanks for watching! -Gary
Crystal clear. Excellent illustration. Suggestion for content: A cost effective DIY accurate DMR setup AR10 build that can double for a hunting rifle. You assemble it and shoot it 800+ yards.
@@paramounttactical reviewing your info as tune up to mount a Arken SH4 gen2 on AR10 with 20 moa mount. Very on point to get it right the first time. Per your suggestions gotta purchase some more mounting tools. Nothing is better than using the right tools for the job.
Lots of great info, but getting a bit hung up on the point about canted rifle not mattering if you are using a 0moa rail. Wouldn't there still be some horizontal error at range if the bullet crosses your 100 yard zero mark at a slight left to right or right to left angle?
I have recently been a proponent of the plumb bob method, and I still think it's valuable to do, but you opened my eyes to also make sure the turret is level at the same time. I never thought about the reticle possibly being canted within the scope. I typically use my thickest feeler gauge canted to square the bottom of the scope to the rail. A parallel bar may be better, how do you feel about that method, seems simpler, faster, more reliable and according to your view of modern machined surfaces, perfectly viable.
I actually like that method. I think it’s solid and better than the Ariska or Spuhr wedge. That would work great with rings but with most mounts you don’t have a flat surface under the turret housing. As for plumb bob, I think it’s great to use to check your reticle after you’ve leveled the scope but ultimately method or HOW you level doesn’t matter. They all can work and all have room for mistakes both human and mechanical. What really matters is verification which no one does. Everyone’s living on faith. If you don’t shoot a tall target test then you don’t really know if your scope is mounted correctly, if your reticle is plumb inside the optic, or if it’s tracking correctly. Thanks for watching and I enjoy having these discussions. Make sure to join us live on Wednesdays for our Dangerous Liberty Podcast. -Gary
That gives me a great idea. At least for rail mounted scopes. Use a precision adjustable parallel between the scope bottom and rail. Should be almost guaranteed to be parallel or level scope to rail correct?
I use the Arisaka wedge on rails but then I had a rifle I wanted to use the two piece ring bases on. So I got out a rail I wasn’t using, attached a ring to it, placed the scope in the ring , leveled it and very GENTLY snugged two of the screws. Just enough to keep the scope from rotating. Then removed it from the rail and attached it to the front base after placing the rear ring onto the rear base. Torqued everything down and all was well. Never an issue
Your an excellent teacher. I am brand new to learning about scopes and long distance shooting. Thank you so much. I have one question, what is a turret.
I have to admit I was critical of your video. Turns out I have a scope and the turret is not level. It has a screw right in the center of the turret cap. I use levels and the plumb method combined as I am a little ocd about this topic. Awesome job my friend and awesome video.
Fantastic content! While most people are out there just offering opinions, Gary's out here offering opinions backed by experience and backing it with solid, logical, testable, repeatable explanations. To go beyond that 80% most people can get to, it all comes down to the details - and Gary plainly identifies and explains why those details are so important. Doesn't matter if you're shooting competitively, hunting, or just enjoying some alone time on a range while honing your proficiency.
Thank you. I really appreciate your kind words. I avoided the entire UA-cam world for a long time because I didn’t want to be associated with the silliness that makes up 90% of the channels with firearm content. When I made the decision to do YT I wanted to be different and focus on what I believed matters and do it with integrity, not focusing on views or subscribers. Hopefully we’ll continue to grow and be successful but either way, I’ll still be able to look myself in the mirror. Thanks for watching! -Gary
@paramounttactical I totally agree with your thoughts on YT and those on it. I used to think the same thing a few years ago, but thanks to guys like you and others who actually know what they're talking about, I now come to them for correct information. Thank for your service to our country and to this platform. You are a valuable asset
Excellent video. I experienced the same problem but with a red dot mounted on the right side of a scope. The shooter next to me couldn’t manage to zero his red dot for elevation or windage. Since it was a dot there was no way to see if he was holding parallel on target since the red dot was side mounted at around 45 degrees. Every time he changed windage his height also changed. I noticed him becoming extremely annoyed. So I explained it in similar fashion.
I’m your previous video you recommended the Wheeler scope leveling kit. How did that stack up to your machinist level? Was it exact or off just a little? I have been a skeptic of using scope caps but you may have made a believer out of me.
You can check to see if your scope cap is parallel to the bottom of your turret housing by putting the turret housing bottom on a surface you’ve confirmed to be level then placing your level on the turret housing. If it’s not level you can turn your turret until the level is indicating level. It is very rare but it does happen that turret cap isn’t parallel/level with the bottom. Regarding the wheeler level compared to my machinist level it’s a moot point because the wheeler level has set screws that allow you to adjust. 90% come extremely level and accurate but I have seen one out of spec. You simply check it by ensuring it reads levels then turn it 180 and ensure it reads the same on the other side. If it doesn’t, adjust until is does. Hopefully that makes sense. Thanks for watching and great question! -Gary
Great video! I am in the process of mounting a scope on my cz457. Decided to wait and get some better levels. Thanks for information on the best way to do this. Where is the best place to get the tall target and tracking test?
Great video, glad you ok the plum bob at the end, as that is what I use. I make sure my rifle is level and solid, then use the plum bob. But I seldom shoot more than a hundred yards. At 75 that is far enough to have some fun, and can not afford top notch equipment on a pension. Got my first rifle when I was 11 years old, so have been shooting for some time. I always shot open sights, till my eyes got not so good, and now not shooting as good with a scope as I did with open sights, getting a bit frustrating.
With knowledge comes a responsibility to share that knowledge. Addressing shortcomings becomes important because we learn from our mistakes while learning little from our success. Liked & subbed.
I love your videos. I bought my first scope based partly on a review you did comparing the Atacr 5-25x56mm to the Zero Compromise scope. I was wondering how the heck am I going to mount this sucker when I saw your scope mounting video. It was exactly what I needed. I also watched your scope mounting myth busters video. It was great. My wife says your arms are too big. I have two children. The reality is if I looked like you, I would have 15.
Great video! I have a 6.5 x 20 x 50 leupold European scope with a canted reticle that has always caused issues...you convinced me to pull it off my ruger 300 prc. What's your best choice for long range plinking?
Just depends on your budget. I personally like Nightforce. You can’t go wrong with the ATACRs and with a 300 PRC I’d suggest the 7-35 but if that’s not in the budget the NX8s are great too. We are a Nightforce dealer so if you are looking for a NF email us services@paramounttactical.com. There’s lots of other good options too though. Vortex, Leupold, or if you want a budget optic check out my review on the Arken EP5. Pretty good optic under $500. Thanks for watching! -Gary
Thank you for this video. I am in first grade compared to your ability's and just getting into air rifles at age 70 but your information is priceless even for me.
Hey Gary, I know you have a ton of comments on this video and I just have 1 question! You said at 16:45 that it's important to ensure that out reticle is squared to the optic. How do we check that? I know how to make sure the scope is level to the rail but how do we know if the reticle is square inside the optic? Thanks for your time!
That is why we don't level an optic off the reticle. Doing so would hide that flaw. By making sure the optic is mechanically leveled to the rail when we do a tall target test or just look through the optic while ensuring it's level using an anticant device, if we look at a plumb line and the reticle is off or we shoot a tall target test and the reticle won't line up when we level the gun, voila! We know the reticle is not plumb inside the optic. I cover that and how to do a tall target test in my Scope Mounting Guide video I just released a couple months ago. Hope that helps! -Gary
@@paramounttactical perfectly explained, I understand it now. So we would know the reticle is off according to the plumb line or tall target test line(which must be perfectly vertical anyways). I appreciate the reply!
The Test which you did with the Scores in the first Part of your Video, did you Test it with the ZCO too? Can i use the Turret too in the ZCO? Thank you .
Have you tried the Arisaka or Starrett parallels and compared the result as compared to using bubble levels? The result meaning the scope being level to the rifle. How do you ensure your bubble level is accurate?
I have. And every time I shot a tall target test and compared them with an expensive, verified level, they resulted in less plumb mounting. Even when using a Spuhr mount which has a built in slot for the wedge it was off more than using a good level. All of the methods can work, I’ve just found, after a lot of testing that the method I laid out is easiest and introduces the least amount of variables. But regardless of HOW you mount, verification has to be part of the process. It’s the ONLY way you know that the scope is mounted correctly, that the reticle is plumb inside the optic, and that the scope is tracking correctly. You can use the best method and the best tools and it still be off due to human or mechanical errors. Without taking the time to verify, you’re just hoping it’s good and will likely miss a lot more never realizing why or simply writing it off to wind. Thanks for watching! -Gary
@@paramounttactical ...But regardless of HOW you mount, verification has to be part of the process. It’s the ONLY way you know that the scope is mounted correctly, that the reticle is plumb inside the optic, and that the scope is tracking correctly... Never really considered the reticle being plumb in the optic, thanks for all you do.
What levels do you trust. It has been my experience that the wheeler levels are not very accurate? Also....what are you thoughts on the EXD vertical leveling tool to make sure your vertical reticle is aligned with the bore? If your scope body is level with the rail, but is not in alignment with the bore...that is a problem.....right??
I understand getting the barrel level left to right. But what about leveling fore and aft? If I have rails on the rifle with a built in MOA, do I level the rifle based on that, or do I level off of some other place (receiver?) and then proceed to mount the scope from there? If this was covered, I apologize for missing it.
You lost me when you called a Rifle a Gun but got me back when I heard Erector lol and great Intel Gary and some Guys don’t realize how important the little things are when you step out past 300 yards plus, I enjoy hitting my Whistle Pigs in another Zip Code but my Old DAV Eyes aren’t what they used to be so EVERY little Tip is Paramount in being successful and enjoying your Day out Shooting. Stay safe my Friend Semper Fidelis and I’ve never seen such magnificent Art Work from a Green Beret Lol I Love it
Of course I reeled back in Marine by using erect in a sentence. 😂 You can leave the boat, but the boat never leaves you. 🤣 Thanks for your service and thanks watching brother! 👊🇺🇸 -Gary
Quickest and easiest why to mount any scope is to know the distance between the flat of the bottom of the scope and the top of the rail and use a gage block stack up of that number between the bottom of the scope and top of the rail and tighten the rings. Your scope will be square to the rail and won’t can’t as you took up the space with the gage blocks. Remove the blocks and you are done
That’s fine but doesn’t address mounting using 1 piece mounts. I’ve also seen many optics mounted using that method out of plumb. Fact is all methods have plenty of room for error. Unless you test/verify by shooting a tall you’re operating on hope and nothing more. Thanks for watching. -Gary
@@paramounttactical sorry I watched two of your videos and meant to post to the scope mounting video, I mean no disrespect and you are right there’s error in everything. I just like using the bottom of the scope as it’s 98% flat. The problem with bubble leveling is there is 1/16” drop of error in the bubble level if there is any space between the line and bubble. Even my precision level has a small space.
@@geremypelleran8487 lol no disrespect perceived. Just discussing. I try to reply to as many comments as possible so my replies are usually short and blunt. It’s an efficiency thing not being rude or meaning to come across sounding irritated. Thanks for watching and I always enjoy discussions nerding out on technical details. Thanks, Gary
The four minute intro made me subscribe. Thank you for being realistic, reasonable and easy to listen to. It nice to hear about your expertise, it also nice to know that just being in the service isn't a catch all for your knowledge.
Thanks Ryan, I appreciate that. I’m glad you found us. Be sure to join us on Wednesdays at 7pm ET for our live Dangerous Liberty Podcast. Wishing you and your a wonderful Thanksgiving. -Gary
Yes, checking your reticle with a plumb bob after mounting is a great check but what’s better is shooting a tall target test. When scope mounting there’s 3 things you’re trying to confirm: 1) The scope is mounted plumb to the rail. 2) Your reticle is plumb to the optic. 3) Your optic is tracking correctly. The ONLY thing that does all 3 is a tall target test. Given the test target is mounted using a plumb or a good level, it does the same thing that a plumb bob does but the two other things mentioned above as well. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching! -Gary
I use wood shims for Micro adjusting everything. This gives you a incredible precise end result. Now if I could only shoot haha. Really love watching your videos.
So a question I have, being new to magnified optics. Would the plumb bob/ flashlight method help in determining if your erector tube is misaligned if you are attempting to troubleshoot an issue with the situation you explained in your video?
Yes. Once you’ve leveled the optic like I demonstrate you can use those methods to see off the reticle is aligned but the definitive way of verifying everything is correct, mounting, reticle level, and tracking… is to shoot a tall target test. Thanks, Gary
Hey Gary, if your scope is mounted with a zero MOA rail the reticle which represents a straight line (line of sight) is parallel with the bore, right? If this is correct how can the bullet cross above the line of sight? I'm confused.
@@jla3772 because when you zero the erector will have the line of sight looking below the line or departure at 100 yards. At 100yds your cross hairs are on your target but the bore is pointed a couple inches above your crosshairs. As you shoot further out the crosshairs and muzzle diverge even more at 500ygs you’re looking at target through optic, muzzle is pointed feet above target. All this is done mechanically inside optic until the erector runs out of elevation which is why we use a 20 MOA rail.
Ive also used multiple methods and tools, all capable in the right hands. However ive adopted using the wedge tools that make the rail and turret housing parallel. There are combinations of rails and Scopes that don't lend themselves to this method but generally it works for most set ups, I don't know of any reason why this doesn't work properly so if you have any input I'd appreciate it.
New to this precision leveling, but would having less air in level tool make a more precise level? Small bubble and finer level lines. The air bubble is same size like in my big level for carpentry.
No. The bubble, or whatever indicator medium is used really isn't a determining factor. I have very precise/accurate levels with large bubbles and then completely inaccurate levels with small bubbles. I just recently released an update to this video with more information that is worth watching. Here's a link: ua-cam.com/video/OG8CchRYlDw/v-deo.htmlsi=aHpyM4FOcOGOuStt Thanks for watching! -Gary
I have 2 of them but I use them for tracking tests. I honestly don’t see the value in using them for scope mounting. A gun vise is better and more versatile. But they can definitely work. They just don’t do nothing that you don’t do with a rifle and gun vise.
On an AR, can one level the scope using just the upper receiver without using the lower receiver? I'm strongly assuming yes, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if I was wrong.
Question, I naturally shoot with a cant maybe 3-5 degrees to the left. If I set my rifle in a vice with my cant and level my scope with the earth, would this work long range? Where I live I can only shoot 100 yards. Thanks
We do a lot of things “naturally” that are incorrect. There’s nothing really natural about shooting. Whether you’re shooting a rifle or pistol 80% of learning to do any of those tasks feel unnatural until you get enough repetitions. My advice is to get your rifle upright and learn to shoot correctly because canting the rifle isn’t correct. Thanks, Gary
Leveling to the rail. I did not consider that one and took it for granted that my rail will be level to my action. I need to go back and confirm. Thanks!
Wow! Great stuff!! We're you trained with the MOA system or MRAD? or both? Just wondering if you might have a preference for either system,,, I'm not a long range guy by any means but like to have a complete understanding of my system. I've recently become a subscriber and am really looking forward to your great work and the insight you share. You know the deal,,,the learning process never stops,,,, Thank you for the help and please keep up the great work! 😎👍
Thanks Bill. I know both Mil and MOA and was trained on both. I prefer and recommend MIL. I have some virtual optic classes that I’ve given that you can find if you search the channel. Definitely worth watching and I go into depth about Mil and MOA and discuss why I recommend Mil over MOA. Glad you found us. Welcome to the Paramount Family! -Gary
@Paramount Tactical Great! Oh and by the way as I forgot to mention it earlier,,,, THANK YOU for your service! Looking forward to becoming familiar with MIL dot characteristics. 😎👍
If your elevation is y-axis and your wind is x-axis and how much you adjust z-axis (by turning your scope) for x-axis should not affect the y-axis as long as you have your level parallel to your x-axis. OR am I wrong?
I don’t know if you’re right or wrong but you did make my brain hurt. 😂 by turning your gun you would turn your elevation into windage and vice versa. You would be essentially removing all the elevation you have built in so you’d have to aim high and toward your magazine. Just to even zero, you’ll always have more elevation dialed in than windage. We teach this in our carbine courses for when you have to turn your rifle sideways to shoot in improvised shooting positions and shooting through loopholes. You have to aim “magazine / high”. Hope that explains it. -Gary
@@paramounttactical Thank you Gary. I probably should have watched the whole video before asking questions. Your charts really helped explain a lot. I will remember this when mounting Bushnell xrs3 on the MPA scope mount :D
Have you calculated the percent of error that would be present in a scope mounted on a canted 20 MOA base as the bullet goes down range? Inducing a 1 MOA windage shift at 700 yards with a 4 MOA movement of the elevation turret sounds like a lot... 25% ... :o Wouldn't the scope have to be extremely canted to cause that much shift?
The argument I was addressing is that “the scope doesn’t need to be leveled to the gun”, which is true IF you’re not using an elevated rail. Many people cant an optic intentionally so they can angle the rifle when the mount it because the position/cheek to stock weld feels more natural to them… among other reasons. Regardless the reason, if you want to dial or hold true windage and true elevation and you have an elevated scope base, the optic must be plumb to the base. Thanks for watching! -Gary
Love your content, question on cant. Watched a guy say that you should mount the scope so the scope is level the way you hold the rifle to your shoulder. It kind of made sense until watching this. I'd say if, when holding rifle comfortably and if it's canted, you should adjust the stock so the rifle is level when fitted comfortably on the shoulder. Thoughts?
LMAO, as a Marine "vet" (whom usually takes the brunt most the time) when you said "I'm not a Navy SEAL, so I don't like to talk about myself" I laughed and hit that like button!
I concur from BUD/S 111. NAVSPECHOLLYWOOD needs to shut up, be humble and quiet. Way too much youtubing.
Great video...
As a Marine, how do you tell if someone is a Marine? Wait 5 minutes he'll tell you
In MY opinion, your 20 MOA rail explanation was "perfect". I found it both understandable a accurate (no pun intended). Hopefully, it helped a lot of people out as I think it may be one of the most misunderstood concepts I see in optics mounting.
Found this 6 months later than when you posted it, but timely information for a new build. Most appreciated!
Hi and I want to say that I have a great deal of respect for your Knowledge and Experience. I have recently purchased a brand new wheeler scope leveling tool. My Father a mechanic by trade that could build houses or do pretty much anything that required intelligence and ambition, taught me a very valuable lesson about buying and testing levels (in fact I remember feeling uncomfortable while he was telling the hardware store owner that he only had one level in the store that was actually level and plum. I would have been about 6 yrs old). The way you prove That a level is actually level is to find a surface that is very very close to level and flat that has position repeatability (lines and edges that are perpendicular to each other). Place the level on the surface and pay an extreme amount of attention to the bubbles position left to right and swing the level 180 degrees to the exact same spot and see if the level bubble placement lands in the exact same spot (If the bubble has shifted the level has error in it my friend). I hope that you double check your levels and then I can tell you how to make them work accurately even though they have error.
Thanks for the Brilliant content and information.
Thanks again
Donnie
"I don't like to talk about myself".... proceeds to talk about himself lol. Just poking at you. Great content bro.
After listening to the first three to four minutes......this is the first thought I had. LOL The problem with youtube....is folks don't just get to the point. I don't have all day to listen to you all.....just want to learn something and move on. Good video once you got to the point.
@rebel1988yota there is a fine line between "talking about yourself" and establishing your technical experience. Look at many you tubers.....they are not really qualified to give their opinions. This guy is.
@@ExFed2021 I don't doubt his credentials.....all the more reason to just get to the point. Lots of great info on his account, that's why I keep watching.
@@rebel1988yota Lol you know what's even easier then coming to the comments to whine about it, just skip forward past it...🙄
@@nismojukerich2994 Constructive criticism isn't complaining. Fact is...he has great content....no need for the 4 minutes of yapping your lips, just get to the point. Simple. If the Content provider doesn't like my criticism....he can say something or he can improve his content. Really is that simple. If he doesn't want criticism, he shouldn't put video's on youtube. Continue on......
I was considering mounting my Leupold Mk-5 to a slightly canted Sig Cross in order to create a custom fit to the most natural/comfortable cheek weld.... Your education on the MOA rail likely saved me a lot of future frustration....
I watched hours and hours of videos and Brownell just released a video saying the same info in this video. That set me on the right path and now I discovered this video. Planning to mount my scope next week
Slightly canted Sig Cross? Do you mean your natural rifle positioning?
Thanks
Dude I thought I knew a lot about mounting scopes ! Your videos have shown me I’m ignorant and need you to come to SD and teach me! I love your videos. Your last video on mounting scopes is exactly how I’ve been mounting them for years. But now after this video I realize I know very little. I’d love you to come to my area and give a class for a few days and mount scopes for long range work. Then let’s shoot them and prove out you concepts. I need more of your knowledge please.
Gary, I just recently discovered your videos/channel and am favorably impressed - not only with the information you present, but perhaps especially with the quality of your presentation. This is yet another excellent instructional video and is very valuable to those of us intent on “getting it right”. Hooo-ah!
Thanks Marty, that means a lot! I’m glad you found us and appreciate your kind words. Hope to see you in the comments often. Join us on Fridays for our livestreams! -Gary
@@paramounttactical Can only agree here !! Many thanks for your insights!
The fact that you're aware of your shortcomings is all that I needed to hear . SUBSCRIBED.
Snag a few stabila levels for the next one
I legit was writing a comment on your how to video that my gun would crack a groundhog out to 400 yards no problem but past that im way off and i had no clue what was going on until i watched your how to video for mounting and your long target. I never had a target explained the way u did in that video which opened my eyes. Since i was a kid we always checked to make sure everything was zeroed a inch high at 100 but never once did i see a long target used the way u explained. Im pumped i believe u have changed my game 100%. Every scope ive had put on in the last 30 years is about to get long targeted. But honetly we always used 2nd fp i been using ffp for last couple years on my newer guns and im loving them. With this information it will sure clean up my groundhog percentage past 600. It always took 3 or 4 to get on target if it didnt run by then just assumed it was wind out at distance but now i understand thank u. This just kinda cemented everything from the part 1 and part 2 videos. So glad i humbled myself into watching them. Really appriciate u taking the time to explain all of this to us for free. I bought your scope mounting kit a couple scopes ago but i never watched part 2 til recently. Prob be trying the long target out tmrw if i can find them somewhere if not ill make one but regardless this is happening tmrw. After i set my scope up tonight.
Thank you for this lecture! I never was aware of it. I followed your instructions and made the necessary corrections. I also used a bubble level that fastens to the rail.
Great presentation.
I think that a canted scope poses problems as detailed in the scope erector illustration even with a zero rail/base but only at noticeable distance when substantially elevating.
Bravo on the excellent presentation.
“I’m not a seal, I don’t like to talk about myself” hahahahahha!
I threw that in for you Chuck.
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Excellent and very straight forward! Personally, I love the math involved as this level is a walk in the park. I am really enjoying getting back into being on the range. Being someone that ran an electrical standards lab (defense), I always question my measurements.
Thanks for taking the time to make this,
easy to follow and just logical. the tall target test is verification of your advice and verification of a good setup, plan and simple 😊👍
i was already familiar with the information but, i really enjoyed the way you came across putting it out there. will be checking out more info from you for sure. thanks
So I am a Tool and Die maker, Hitting .0001 of an inch on a CNC is much harder to do than you think, there is also the fitup between the male and female screws, on top of the other surfaces that need to be machined, each one of those things has a tolerance and they stack. A bubble level isn't super precise in the world of machining either, they make specialty machinist levels that are far more accurate.
I am not arguing that this isn't the best way to do it, because that is outside my wheelhouse, I don't level scopes professionally, even if this is the best way of doing it though, there will be error.
I don’t disagree with any of that but with multimillion dollar companies that have decent QC processes in place, the surfaces are flat, level and parallel within a tolerance more than adequate to level the scope. And you’re right bubble levels are not that accurate and that is what you use to level. My point is the surfaces are WAY more accurate than the levels. To properly level a scope we need to get within less than 1 degree. The accuracy of the surfaces even with all tolerances and imperfections stacked will not hold us back from achieving that. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your thoughtful input and experience! -Gary
@@paramounttactical yes sir, keep up the great information!
Thanks for all these videos, very informative! I'm a former US Army Sapper myself, so I know CQB well enough. Precision long range shooting? Not so much. I've got alot to learn, and it's great to be able to hear it from a subject matter expert.
Thanks for your service and thanks for watching! 👊🇺🇸-Gary
Essayons
Essayons!
I like your video. You covered setting up a scope well. Straight and level and you have no problems.
How satisfying it was to finally have someone addressing these Myths! Most people “know” stuff without understanding the why and how behind… Specially the canted scope on the rifle, like Hodnett said “it must be level to the world” but again, understand why and how makes you realize the added variant of a moa rail in the equation.
Just discovered your channel! You got me subscribed and will definitely be looking forward for your content!
Ps. Here the saying is, how do you know if a guy is a sniper… don’t worry he will tell you! 😂
Nice video! Cheers! 🇨🇦
Much respect for a great video. Its not often that I come across a video that's truly useful. Ive been shooting and hunting for over 40 years and have seen many changes in the industry over that time. You provided one of the best informative and instructional videos I have every viewed. It shows that you enjoy what you do. Thanks for your service and last like you I dont like trolls who know less than nothing and act like clowns. Just keyboard warriors hiding behind a computer screen where they dont have to answer for their actions.
Great video, my takeaway, always verify my mounting work and the scope quality by shooting a turret tracking test no matter what mounting method is used. With your mounting method, I might be tempted to attach the ant-cant bubble while the scope is off the rifle sitting square on it’s bottom turret housing on a level surface if it balanced well.
Couldn’t have said it better! Thanks for watching! -Gary
New here. I was actually researching new scopes for my crossbow and came about your channel. I watched the one on leveling the gun and mounting the scope to be level to the gun. Being a lifetime engineer this makes total sense. Thanks for sharing your experience in our armed forces and thank you for your service! Keep up the great videos to help us all become better marksmen/markswomen, both on the range, self-defense, and ethical harvesting of our game.
Glad you found us Steve! Welcome to the Paramount family! We look forward to seeing you in the comments often. Make sure to join us live on Fridays! If you ever have any questions don’t hesitate to contact me either on here or via email. Thanks, Gary
Mounted My Arken EP5 and followed your video. Went to range and at 100 yrds. After zero averaged sub .5 MIN. ON Every grouping. Using Budget build Axis 2 precision. I will always mount my scopes with your method from now on. Ive shot this 6.5 creedmoor to 1120yrds at a 30" gong.
That makes me happy to hear man! 👊🇺🇸
I appreciate you sharing!
-Gary
I've now shot this rifle to 170@paraounttactical
@@paramounttacticalive now sot this rifle too 1760 I did have to solidify my pic rail reset scope like you said before that
Good video I actually thinking about remounting my scope with a rail on my Remington 700 tactical 308 and I was debating whether to go with a zero MOA or a 20 MOA very informative. I’ll try to do my best and go with your advice. Thank you.
@@johnknorr1140 if you do, here’s my updated complete guide to scope mounting. Part II is on the channel as well.
How To Mount A Scope The Right Way - Precision Scope Mounting - Part 1 of 2
ua-cam.com/video/OG8CchRYlDw/v-deo.html
@paramounttactical you posted this a year ago and you're still responding to your viewers to help them. Between the excellent quality of this video and what I just said you've quickly earned another subscriber sir. I hope all is well on your end in these troubling times, thank you for the great video
I've found that using a flat steel ruler is even easier than using the wheeler levels. Just get the scope somewhat snug in the rings so it will only rotate with some force applied to it, then rest one edge of the ruler on your pic rail while lifting the other edge to contact the flat bottom of your scope tube. It's super fast and as long as you use a good quality ruler like a Starrett your scope will be perfectly level.
🤔 pretty smart. I can’t think of a reason that wouldn’t work for mounting in rings. Probably wouldn’t work on most mounts given they don’t typically have flats below turret housing but for rings it’s quite brilliant. Thanks for sharing and watching! I might have to do a video on that and I’ll be sure to give you credit. This channel is meant to be a community and sharing info like this is what makes us all better!
Thanks, Gary
Great video, very thorough explanations! I understood the basics of what you talked about prior to watching the video, but now I understand it more in depth of the what and why.
There's a lot to take in & I appreciate you taking the time to explain it all. What I discovered recently is a jig you slide between the rail & bottom of the scope& when fully forward creates a perfectly level scope. It's all about geometry (in my mind anyway😁) Not sure if you've seen or had chance to use one.
Just found your channel and I’m glad I did. I’m just getting in to long distance shooting and your vids are way helpful. Thank you for your service and your info.
I always appreciate the information you drop on us. Your LPVO mounting video was the one that had me subscribe.
Thanks for the info. I am new to scopes and this definitely is good to know. I did use the turrets to mount my scope and i was very cautious to make sure the scope was level with a level.
I'm glad you made this video because I leveled the rifle with a magwell vice with some wobble. Hence, it appears my cross hairs are very close to being verticle to plumb Bob, but mr Bob shows some error.
Sound, solid advice. Thanks for your time.
Thank you, I would have been lost without this video!
1st off …. Thank You For Your Service Brother
2nd … I am a long range shooter as well and I agree on 100% of everything you discussed in your video. Nice Job!!
Good evening Gary! Discovered your channel yesterday. Awesome videos. I’m currently setting up a PCP air rifle for bench rest shooting. I have a Valdada Crusader-2 FFP scope I am trying to get mounted. Never had an issue mounting a scope until now. Watched this video and your scope mounting one to see if I’m missing something.
So this evening I took off the scope to start over. I have a Tipton best bench gun vise and I’m also using the Wheeler scope leveling kit. Just like in your video, I have the gun level in both axis, before putting on the the barrel level. After double checking multiple times, the gun is perfectly leveled and secure. Before placing the scope in the rings, I made sure the countertop is flat and level, and set the scope down on the counter to check the turret level and the cross hair. Everything is perfect.
Now here is where it gets interesting. Once I place the scope in the rings, and level the scope with the same reference level from the Wheeler set, and then look through the scope, the vertical cross hair is canted and pointed to approximately the 350 degree mark if you were looking at a compass rose. Mind you the level is on the elevation turret and is completely level. Makes zero since to me!! The only way I can get the cross hair squared is to turn the scope which then puts the turret not level and I have to use a laser line on the wall to get the cross hair squared to a leveled gun in both axis.
Any input would greatly be appreciated!!
Keith
The reticle isn’t plumb inside. Happens quite a bit especially in sub $1K optic. You need to get it replaced.
@@paramounttactical But this is the strange part. With the scope setting on the counter, which I verified flat and level, and then placing the level on top of it, the cross hair is completely square and plumb. It only changes when put in the scope rings. I hope it’s not the internals. This Valdada is a $3800 scope!
@@keithrush4168 🤔 that doesn’t make sense. Did you check your level? Put it in one spot the turn it 180 degrees. Does level read the same both ways?
@@paramounttactical I know. I’m completely baffled! Using the Wheeler level, just checked both ways on the counter. I’m using our island counter, which is quartz, so about as flat as you can be. I’ve got the scope base flat on the counter and have my laser level shining on the wall. The cross hair matches perfect.
By the way, THANK YOU, for your service time. I’m an O4 in the Navy and just over 28 years. Almost finished. Can’t wait!!
@@keithrush4168 thank you for your service as well.
So when it’s on the counter which you confirmed level, you confirm the turret is level and confirm reticle is level using your laser? And it’s good?
Then you put in mount, confirm optic is level with with level on turret, and then use laser to check reticle and the reticle is not plumb?
Thank You Gary!! Great Info.. Opened my eyes on a lot. I didn’t think a bubble level could be off much. I have always used plumb bob and I’ve never shot a tall target to check anything but I will soon.
Definitely shoot a tall target test. You can even make one at home. Shooting that test is the only real way to know your optic is square and tracking correctly. Thanks for watching! -Gary
I am impressed with your level of competency and knowledge, and communication skill.
Thanks Bill, and thanks for watching!
-Gary
Very informative and very interesting. What you say makes sense. Would like to talk to you more about this
Solid info, thanks. What about height over bore? Does mounting scope higher or lower matter?
The higher a scope is mounted the less elevation adjustment is available. More critical for long range work (e.g., 600 yds +). Also high mounting can interfere with a good consistent cheek weld. Removable cheek risers will help obtain a good cheek weld and you don't have to drill through the buttstock.
Thank you for the informative video. I thank you for your service and sacrifice. Best to you.
Great video, watched your scope mount video too today, very helpful - thanks from New Zealand.
Thanks for watching! -Gary
Great information, so many people don't know you can place a small piece of a mirror on the front of their scope [this will give a reflection of the reticle] to check the reticle inside the scope, this will tell if the reticle is centered up-down -left-right..
You absolutely can but that only tells you so much. People also tend to adjust their guns to make the reticle plumb. Just bc your reticle is plumb in the mirror, doesn’t mean your optic is plumb to the gun, or the reticle is plumb to the optic. It all matters. How you mount a scope is ultimately irrelevant. What is important is to test and the only way to confirm all the above (or diagnose issues) is to shoot a tall target test. If you don’t confirm on a tall target, you’re just assuming you’re good. Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Only knew about tall target test as a way to determine velocity w/o a chrono and verify turret tracking accuracy (e.g., how true the MOA/MIL is). This knowledge of erector being square internally vs thinking environmental conditions causing POI being from where doped had my mind going WHOA! That's it! I'm a Subscriber!
I do overkill scope mounting with Wheelers Pro kit and ARISAKA leveling tool, and only have one 20 MOA rail that will get this new info treatment Thanks.
Awesome vid! New to your channel and precision shooting and you have been my guide! Question though, won’t canting the rifle with even a 0 moa rail cause wind age/elevation dialing issues since you will at some point have to dial for elevation and holding the rifle sideways will no longer put the scope directly over the center of the barrel and your cross point of scope and bullet trajectory will crossed horizontally and vertically? For example if you hold your rifle 45 deg, in order for the scope to cross the bullets path you will have to dial to the right and down and the further you look in the scope the further to the right the scopes trajectory is from the bullets path so you have to dial left and down to adjust for further distances?
So sorry for the poorly worded explanation, this is something I have been thinking about for a while and wanted to pick your brain in case I am way off
Thanks!!
Yes, chanting the rifle with 0 MOA once the optic is attached will cause variation. If you install the optic slightly canted and level the optic, causing the rifle to be canted with optic level, will cause little to no impact variation.
The optic being level is what matters the most. Optimally the optic and the rifle are on the same plane.
Great information thanks for sharing
There is always someone arguing that you will be wrong.
💯! I don’t mind people thinking I’m wrong as long as I’ve done all I can do to make the case. While it can be frustrating when people say you’re wrong or disagree with you I try to look at it as my fault for not making my case well enough. After a video like this that illustrates why I believe what I do or use the methodology that I use, if you still disagree, well… you do you. 😂
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Crystal clear. Excellent illustration. Suggestion for content: A cost effective DIY accurate DMR setup AR10 build that can double for a hunting rifle. You assemble it and shoot it 800+ yards.
Thanks for your kind words. It’s appreciated. That is a great suggestion. I’m putting that on my video to do list! Thanks, Gary
@@paramounttactical reviewing your info as tune up to mount a Arken SH4 gen2 on AR10 with 20 moa mount. Very on point to get it right the first time. Per your suggestions gotta purchase some more mounting tools. Nothing is better than using the right tools for the job.
@@backwardog1 we try to make things easy. Here’s all my recommendations in one kit. paramounttactical.com/product/scope-mounting-bundle/
Lots of great info, but getting a bit hung up on the point about canted rifle not mattering if you are using a 0moa rail. Wouldn't there still be some horizontal error at range if the bullet crosses your 100 yard zero mark at a slight left to right or right to left angle?
Yes, I think he is completely incorrect on this one.
I have recently been a proponent of the plumb bob method, and I still think it's valuable to do, but you opened my eyes to also make sure the turret is level at the same time. I never thought about the reticle possibly being canted within the scope. I typically use my thickest feeler gauge canted to square the bottom of the scope to the rail. A parallel bar may be better, how do you feel about that method, seems simpler, faster, more reliable and according to your view of modern machined surfaces, perfectly viable.
I actually like that method. I think it’s solid and better than the Ariska or Spuhr wedge. That would work great with rings but with most mounts you don’t have a flat surface under the turret housing. As for plumb bob, I think it’s great to use to check your reticle after you’ve leveled the scope but ultimately method or HOW you level doesn’t matter. They all can work and all have room for mistakes both human and mechanical. What really matters is verification which no one does. Everyone’s living on faith. If you don’t shoot a tall target test then you don’t really know if your scope is mounted correctly, if your reticle is plumb inside the optic, or if it’s tracking correctly.
Thanks for watching and I enjoy having these discussions. Make sure to join us live on Wednesdays for our Dangerous Liberty Podcast.
-Gary
@@paramounttactical ya you are right, it would only work with a rail.
That gives me a great idea. At least for rail mounted scopes. Use a precision adjustable parallel between the scope bottom and rail. Should be almost guaranteed to be parallel or level scope to rail correct?
I use the Arisaka wedge on rails but then I had a rifle I wanted to use the two piece ring bases on. So I got out a rail I wasn’t using, attached a ring to it, placed the scope in the ring , leveled it and very GENTLY snugged two of the screws. Just enough to keep the scope from rotating. Then removed it from the rail and attached it to the front base after placing the rear ring onto the rear base. Torqued everything down and all was well.
Never an issue
Thanks Gary love your passion for this sport. The more knowledge makes a better community and a better competitor you become. Cheers Andy 🇦🇺
Thanks man! And thanks for watching!
👊🍻🇺🇸
-Gary
Your an excellent teacher. I am brand new to learning about scopes and long distance shooting. Thank you so much. I have one question, what is a turret.
What do you think about the scalarworks self leveling scope mount?
Same as Spuhr's. They are decent.
Haven’t used them. If it’s like Spuhr in that it comes with a wedge, I just personally don’t like the wedges.
I have to admit I was critical of your video. Turns out I have a scope and the turret is not level. It has a screw right in the center of the turret cap. I use levels and the plumb method combined as I am a little ocd about this topic. Awesome job my friend and awesome video.
Fantastic content! While most people are out there just offering opinions, Gary's out here offering opinions backed by experience and backing it with solid, logical, testable, repeatable explanations. To go beyond that 80% most people can get to, it all comes down to the details - and Gary plainly identifies and explains why those details are so important. Doesn't matter if you're shooting competitively, hunting, or just enjoying some alone time on a range while honing your proficiency.
Thank you. I really appreciate your kind words.
I avoided the entire UA-cam world for a long time because I didn’t want to be associated with the silliness that makes up 90% of the channels with firearm content. When I made the decision to do YT I wanted to be different and focus on what I believed matters and do it with integrity, not focusing on views or subscribers.
Hopefully we’ll continue to grow and be successful but either way, I’ll still be able to look myself in the mirror. Thanks for watching! -Gary
@paramounttactical I totally agree with your thoughts on YT and those on it. I used to think the same thing a few years ago, but thanks to guys like you and others who actually know what they're talking about, I now come to them for correct information. Thank for your service to our country and to this platform. You are a valuable asset
Just sent my PST to Vortex. Thanks for making this video, I also have a dozen levels and obsess over perfection.
Excellent video. I experienced the same problem but with a red dot mounted on the right side of a scope. The shooter next to me couldn’t manage to zero his red dot for elevation or windage. Since it was a dot there was no way to see if he was holding parallel on target since the red dot was side mounted at around 45 degrees. Every time he changed windage his height also changed. I noticed him becoming extremely annoyed. So I explained it in similar fashion.
I’m your previous video you recommended the Wheeler scope leveling kit. How did that stack up to your machinist level? Was it exact or off just a little? I have been a skeptic of using scope caps but you may have made a believer out of me.
You can check to see if your scope cap is parallel to the bottom of your turret housing by putting the turret housing bottom on a surface you’ve confirmed to be level then placing your level on the turret housing. If it’s not level you can turn your turret until the level is indicating level. It is very rare but it does happen that turret cap isn’t parallel/level with the bottom.
Regarding the wheeler level compared to my machinist level it’s a moot point because the wheeler level has set screws that allow you to adjust. 90% come extremely level and accurate but I have seen one out of spec. You simply check it by ensuring it reads levels then turn it 180 and ensure it reads the same on the other side. If it doesn’t, adjust until is does. Hopefully that makes sense.
Thanks for watching and great question!
-Gary
Great videos , I follow your method after using old school ways. Keep up the good work
👍
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Great video! I am in the process of mounting a scope on my cz457. Decided to wait and get some better levels. Thanks for information on the best way to do this. Where is the best place to get the tall target and tracking test?
Thanks for watching! Here you go. Link to the ones I use (not affiliated). www.boxtobenchprecision.com/
@@paramounttactical Thanks! Do you have any videos showing the process when using one of these tracking targets?
Great video, glad you ok the plum bob at the end, as that is what I use. I make sure my rifle is level and solid, then use the plum bob. But I seldom shoot more than a hundred yards. At 75 that is far enough to have some fun, and can not afford top notch equipment on a pension. Got my first rifle when I was 11 years old, so have been shooting for some time. I always shot open sights, till my eyes got not so good, and now not shooting as good with a scope as I did with open sights, getting a bit frustrating.
With knowledge comes a responsibility to share that knowledge. Addressing shortcomings becomes important because we learn from our mistakes while learning little from our success. Liked & subbed.
I should’ve watched the whole video before commenting because you touched on exactly what I was trying to say, and I have seen over the years
I love your videos. I bought my first scope based partly on a review you did comparing the Atacr 5-25x56mm to the Zero Compromise scope. I was wondering how the heck am I going to mount this sucker when I saw your scope mounting video. It was exactly what I needed.
I also watched your scope mounting myth busters video. It was great. My wife says your arms are too big. I have two children. The reality is if I looked like you, I would have 15.
😂 Glad you found us! Welcome to the Paramount Family!
Great video! I have a 6.5 x 20 x 50 leupold European scope with a canted reticle that has always caused issues...you convinced me to pull it off my ruger 300 prc. What's your best choice for long range plinking?
Just depends on your budget. I personally like Nightforce. You can’t go wrong with the ATACRs and with a 300 PRC I’d suggest the 7-35 but if that’s not in the budget the NX8s are great too. We are a Nightforce dealer so if you are looking for a NF email us services@paramounttactical.com.
There’s lots of other good options too though. Vortex, Leupold, or if you want a budget optic check out my review on the Arken EP5. Pretty good optic under $500.
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
@@paramounttactical email on the way.
Thanks for your service Sir!
You are a wealth of great information. Thank you, Sir.
Thank you for this video. I am in first grade compared to your ability's and just getting into air rifles at age 70 but your information is priceless even for me.
That's awesome to hear! Glad you found us! Make sure and join us on Wednesdays for our live podcast at 7pm ET.
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Hey Gary, I know you have a ton of comments on this video and I just have 1 question! You said at 16:45 that it's important to ensure that out reticle is squared to the optic. How do we check that? I know how to make sure the scope is level to the rail but how do we know if the reticle is square inside the optic? Thanks for your time!
That is why we don't level an optic off the reticle. Doing so would hide that flaw. By making sure the optic is mechanically leveled to the rail when we do a tall target test or just look through the optic while ensuring it's level using an anticant device, if we look at a plumb line and the reticle is off or we shoot a tall target test and the reticle won't line up when we level the gun, voila! We know the reticle is not plumb inside the optic. I cover that and how to do a tall target test in my Scope Mounting Guide video I just released a couple months ago. Hope that helps!
-Gary
@@paramounttactical perfectly explained, I understand it now. So we would know the reticle is off according to the plumb line or tall target test line(which must be perfectly vertical anyways). I appreciate the reply!
Great explanation and easy to understand. Wondering if a digital level would be any better.
I think with a good digital level it most likely would be better.
Great insightful information.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise.
The Test which you did with the Scores in the first Part of your Video, did you Test it with the ZCO too? Can i use the Turret too in the ZCO? Thank you .
Have you tried the Arisaka or Starrett parallels and compared the result as compared to using bubble levels? The result meaning the scope being level to the rifle. How do you ensure your bubble level is accurate?
I have. And every time I shot a tall target test and compared them with an expensive, verified level, they resulted in less plumb mounting. Even when using a Spuhr mount which has a built in slot for the wedge it was off more than using a good level. All of the methods can work, I’ve just found, after a lot of testing that the method I laid out is easiest and introduces the least amount of variables. But regardless of HOW you mount, verification has to be part of the process. It’s the ONLY way you know that the scope is mounted correctly, that the reticle is plumb inside the optic, and that the scope is tracking correctly. You can use the best method and the best tools and it still be off due to human or mechanical errors. Without taking the time to verify, you’re just hoping it’s good and will likely miss a lot more never realizing why or simply writing it off to wind. Thanks for watching! -Gary
@@paramounttactical ...But regardless of HOW you mount, verification has to be part of the process. It’s the ONLY way you know that the scope is mounted correctly, that the reticle is plumb inside the optic, and that the scope is tracking correctly... Never really considered the reticle being plumb in the optic, thanks for all you do.
Good stuff. Makes total sense. Thanks man!
What levels do you trust. It has been my experience that the wheeler levels are not very accurate?
Also....what are you thoughts on the EXD vertical leveling tool to make sure your vertical reticle is aligned with the bore? If your scope body is level with the rail, but is not in alignment with the bore...that is a problem.....right??
I understand getting the barrel level left to right. But what about leveling fore and aft? If I have rails on the rifle with a built in MOA, do I level the rifle based on that, or do I level off of some other place (receiver?) and then proceed to mount the scope from there? If this was covered, I apologize for missing it.
Complete Guide To Precision Scope Mounting - Part 1 of 2
ua-cam.com/video/OG8CchRYlDw/v-deo.html
You lost me when you called a Rifle a Gun but got me back when I heard Erector lol and great Intel Gary and some Guys don’t realize how important the little things are when you step out past 300 yards plus, I enjoy hitting my Whistle Pigs in another Zip Code but my Old DAV Eyes aren’t what they used to be so EVERY little Tip is Paramount in being successful and enjoying your Day out Shooting. Stay safe my Friend Semper Fidelis and I’ve never seen such magnificent Art Work from a Green Beret Lol I Love it
Of course I reeled back in Marine by using erect in a sentence. 😂 You can leave the boat, but the boat never leaves you. 🤣
Thanks for your service and thanks watching brother!
👊🇺🇸
-Gary
@@paramounttactical we are who we are my Brother stay safe.
Quickest and easiest why to mount any scope is to know the distance between the flat of the bottom of the scope and the top of the rail and use a gage block stack up of that number between the bottom of the scope and top of the rail and tighten the rings. Your scope will be square to the rail and won’t can’t as you took up the space with the gage blocks. Remove the blocks and you are done
That’s fine but doesn’t address mounting using 1 piece mounts. I’ve also seen many optics mounted using that method out of plumb. Fact is all methods have plenty of room for error. Unless you test/verify by shooting a tall you’re operating on hope and nothing more.
Thanks for watching.
-Gary
@@paramounttactical sorry I watched two of your videos and meant to post to the scope mounting video, I mean no disrespect and you are right there’s error in everything. I just like using the bottom of the scope as it’s 98% flat. The problem with bubble leveling is there is 1/16” drop of error in the bubble level if there is any space between the line and bubble. Even my precision level has a small space.
@@geremypelleran8487 lol no disrespect perceived. Just discussing. I try to reply to as many comments as possible so my replies are usually short and blunt. It’s an efficiency thing not being rude or meaning to come across sounding irritated. Thanks for watching and I always enjoy discussions nerding out on technical details.
Thanks, Gary
The four minute intro made me subscribe. Thank you for being realistic, reasonable and easy to listen to. It nice to hear about your expertise, it also nice to know that just being in the service isn't a catch all for your knowledge.
Thanks Ryan, I appreciate that. I’m glad you found us. Be sure to join us on Wednesdays at 7pm ET for our live Dangerous Liberty Podcast.
Wishing you and your a wonderful Thanksgiving. -Gary
Would you use a plumb bob in conjunction with a touret level to make sure your reticle is true?
Yes, checking your reticle with a plumb bob after mounting is a great check but what’s better is shooting a tall target test.
When scope mounting there’s 3 things you’re trying to confirm:
1) The scope is mounted plumb to the rail.
2) Your reticle is plumb to the optic.
3) Your optic is tracking correctly.
The ONLY thing that does all 3 is a tall target test. Given the test target is mounted using a plumb or a good level, it does the same thing that a plumb bob does but the two other things mentioned above as well.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
I love this guy!!
Oh man!
Finally! Someone that's f'n real about his sheott!!
Thank you!
I use wood shims for Micro adjusting everything. This gives you a incredible precise end result. Now if I could only shoot haha. Really love watching your videos.
This guy has a straight up no BS policy 😂 love it!
Great content, I only wish you could be in Aus. I would support your business 100%. Just keep up the great work. Cheers, mate.
Thanks for the support brother! If you’re ever over here in the DC area hit us up and come out and shoot! -Gary
Great information. Good to know I have been doing it right.
Does a 20 MOA rail change your point blank range if you zero 50 yards
No
So a question I have, being new to magnified optics. Would the plumb bob/ flashlight method help in determining if your erector tube is misaligned if you are attempting to troubleshoot an issue with the situation you explained in your video?
Yes. Once you’ve leveled the optic like I demonstrate you can use those methods to see off the reticle is aligned but the definitive way of verifying everything is correct, mounting, reticle level, and tracking… is to shoot a tall target test.
Thanks,
Gary
@@paramounttactical Thank you, I appreciate all the help you guys are putting out.
Never heard of the scope internals like you explained SF - FANTASTIC💥‼️‼️‼️💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🇺🇸
Hey Gary, if your scope is mounted with a zero MOA rail the reticle which represents a straight line (line of sight) is parallel with the bore, right? If this is correct how can the bullet cross above the line of sight? I'm confused.
@@jla3772 because when you zero the erector will have the line of sight looking below the line or departure at 100 yards.
At 100yds your cross hairs are on your target but the bore is pointed a couple inches above your crosshairs.
As you shoot further out the crosshairs and muzzle diverge even more at 500ygs you’re looking at target through optic, muzzle is pointed feet above target.
All this is done mechanically inside optic until the erector runs out of elevation which is why we use a 20 MOA rail.
Ive also used multiple methods and tools, all capable in the right hands. However ive adopted using the wedge tools that make the rail and turret housing parallel. There are combinations of rails and Scopes that don't lend themselves to this method but generally it works for most set ups, I don't know of any reason why this doesn't work properly so if you have any input I'd appreciate it.
New to this precision leveling, but would having less air in level tool make a more precise level? Small bubble and finer level lines. The air bubble is same size like in my big level for carpentry.
No. The bubble, or whatever indicator medium is used really isn't a determining factor. I have very precise/accurate levels with large bubbles and then completely inaccurate levels with small bubbles. I just recently released an update to this video with more information that is worth watching. Here's a link: ua-cam.com/video/OG8CchRYlDw/v-deo.htmlsi=aHpyM4FOcOGOuStt
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
I like your explanation, very nicely done
Excellent job. Really appreciate all your videos. Keep up the great work.
Thanks and thanks for watching!
What are your thoughts on using the SAC final scope level for setup and transfer to the host rifle?
I have 2 of them but I use them for tracking tests. I honestly don’t see the value in using them for scope mounting. A gun vise is better and more versatile. But they can definitely work. They just don’t do nothing that you don’t do with a rifle and gun vise.
On an AR, can one level the scope using just the upper receiver without using the lower receiver?
I'm strongly assuming yes, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if I was wrong.
@@IsaiahChapter53isAboutJesus absolutely you can.
Question, I naturally shoot with a cant maybe 3-5 degrees to the left. If I set my rifle in a vice with my cant and level my scope with the earth, would this work long range? Where I live I can only shoot 100 yards. Thanks
We do a lot of things “naturally” that are incorrect. There’s nothing really natural about shooting. Whether you’re shooting a rifle or pistol 80% of learning to do any of those tasks feel unnatural until you get enough repetitions.
My advice is to get your rifle upright and learn to shoot correctly because canting the rifle isn’t correct.
Thanks,
Gary
@@paramounttactical Thanks for the super quick response
Leveling to the rail. I did not consider that one and took it for granted that my rail will be level to my action. I need to go back and confirm. Thanks!
Wow! Great stuff!!
We're you trained with the MOA system or MRAD? or both?
Just wondering if you might have a preference for either system,,,
I'm not a long range guy by any means but like to have a complete understanding of my system.
I've recently become a subscriber and am really looking forward to your great work and the insight you share.
You know the deal,,,the learning process never stops,,,,
Thank you for the help and please keep up the great work!
😎👍
Thanks Bill. I know both Mil and MOA and was trained on both. I prefer and recommend MIL. I have some virtual optic classes that I’ve given that you can find if you search the channel. Definitely worth watching and I go into depth about Mil and MOA and discuss why I recommend Mil over MOA.
Glad you found us. Welcome to the Paramount Family!
-Gary
@Paramount Tactical Great! Oh and by the way as I forgot to mention it earlier,,,,
THANK YOU for your service!
Looking forward to becoming familiar with MIL dot characteristics.
😎👍
@@billturner1960 thank you sir!
I dont freakin know ANYTHING lol. Im just getting started. I believe i'll follow your teaching. Thank you. 🙏🏻🇺🇸💪🏻
If your elevation is y-axis and your wind is x-axis and how much you adjust z-axis (by turning your scope) for x-axis should not affect the y-axis as long as you have your level parallel to your x-axis. OR am I wrong?
I don’t know if you’re right or wrong but you did make my brain hurt. 😂 by turning your gun you would turn your elevation into windage and vice versa. You would be essentially removing all the elevation you have built in so you’d have to aim high and toward your magazine. Just to even zero, you’ll always have more elevation dialed in than windage. We teach this in our carbine courses for when you have to turn your rifle sideways to shoot in improvised shooting positions and shooting through loopholes. You have to aim “magazine / high”. Hope that explains it. -Gary
@@paramounttactical Thank you Gary. I probably should have watched the whole video before asking questions. Your charts really helped explain a lot. I will remember this when mounting Bushnell xrs3 on the MPA scope mount :D
Have you calculated the percent of error that would be present in a scope mounted on a canted 20 MOA base as the bullet goes down range? Inducing a 1 MOA windage shift at 700 yards with a 4 MOA movement of the elevation turret sounds like a lot... 25% ... :o Wouldn't the scope have to be extremely canted to cause that much shift?
The argument I was addressing is that “the scope doesn’t need to be leveled to the gun”, which is true IF you’re not using an elevated rail. Many people cant an optic intentionally so they can angle the rifle when the mount it because the position/cheek to stock weld feels more natural to them… among other reasons. Regardless the reason, if you want to dial or hold true windage and true elevation and you have an elevated scope base, the optic must be plumb to the base.
Thanks for watching! -Gary
Love your content, question on cant. Watched a guy say that you should mount the scope so the scope is level the way you hold the rifle to your shoulder. It kind of made sense until watching this.
I'd say if, when holding rifle comfortably and if it's canted, you should adjust the stock so the rifle is level when fitted comfortably on the shoulder. Thoughts?
I think building cant into the rifle is a terrible idea and we teach not to do that.