Only grass fed meat which most people don't eat, and even grass fed meat has only very little that would not make any difference. You're not going to get an average of 200 mg of DHA a day without fish
@@dj-fe4ck 200 mg of DHA is a made up number. People are testing for DHA and EPA who don't eat fish or eggs (eggs have some DHA) and they still have normal omega 3's in the blood. Paul Saladino is one of them, he just eats fatty meat. Also, brain of the animal is high in omega 3's like fish, but then again, all these extra omega 3's aren't needed and they are possibly harmful
And 9 March 2023 Dr. Klaper posted a video that his levels were dropping each year since 2020, and that he is now starting to take DHA supplements again.
Check out the brand yourself. Look for FDA recalls, and how they responded to them if there were any. Look for safety testing, and if they post results with batch numbers. Don't rely on vegan influencers, your health is your job.
@@NiaLaLa_V I was giving him a video suggestion that might help his nearly half a million subscribers who might not all have the free time to do extensive research into every supplement they take. Considering the amount of research he does regularly, I thought that maybe he's come across some "red flag" (or alternatively, "green flag") brands that it'd be helpful for us to know about. While you're correct that you shouldn't solely rely on him as a source, it can't hurt to use his research-based opinion as a head start.
One thing you SHOULD have mentioned is that Dr. Klaper is talking about this issue in the context of his OTHER recommendations. He is opposed to oil. (He is fine with nuts and seeds and avocado in moderation.) This means that people on his diet are not getting excessive omega 6s. Past studies argued that the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 is important. Because his recommendations mean that one is relatively low in omega 6, the omega 3 supplement may become less important/useful. If you are pounding down the omega 6 oils, you should probably more seriously consider an omega 3 supplement (or better yet, cut back on the omega 6s).
I do totally agree. On the omega 6 . and omega 3 ratio. If people that eat less omega 6. then their also less omega 3 . And we only need 5 to 10% of. Or calories from fat anyway. Be my understanding
I agree with this. When I was in grad school for nutrition, one of my professors was very involved on omega 3 research. We had a guest lecturer come and speak. He mentioned that fish get their DHA and omega 3s from eating algae or algae eating fish.
Can't say I've ever noticed any brain function differences with omega 3 intake but my face explodes with acne when I don't get any and I'll experience menstrual cramps. Seeds do work to keep me pain free and to clear my skin, I find hemp particularly effective, but sometimes I just get so bored of eating them every single day! I find an algae supplement to be more sustainable for me and I just eat seeds whenever I want them or if I can't afford the supplement.
@@markythesharky007 You can say all you want but omnivores need 0 supplements. You're diet does need a list of supplements because it does not contain all the nutrition a human needs.
@@microsofttechsupp0rtplaysc784 :D You need to research a little i think, where do u think the B12 comes from Animals? Animals get injected by B12, and for Vitamin D its from Sun not meat or milk.
I did say seeds work, a supplement is just easier for me on a day to day basis which I'm sure is what people that eat animals think when they take fish oil supplements. 🤷♀️
When I was in grad school for nutrition, I had a lecture from a researcher specializing in Omega 3 FA metabolism and impacts on chronic disease, and he also said that he did not support widespread supplementation of omega 3s because they can impact cell membrane permeability. But his concern was more pointed to the idea that taking supplements could lead to over-supplementation as most people in the population are also getting DHA/EPA from food as well. I think the real issue is not whether you take supplements, but rather how much are you taking.
I take one-seventh of the amount recommended by the vendor of my DHA/EPA capules, just 500mg/300mg per week. Stopped my one damaged finger joint seizing up. When I took the full dose my skin got weirdly delicate, so I cut it drastically. I am old.
Hey man… Klaper scared the crapper out of me (cymbal crash) but you just alleviated my fears. I’m going back to a moderate dose supplement today. Thank you so much. No really, thanks for existing.
Mike, Dr. Klapper in your short clip speaks to "high levels" meaning fish. He, good as he is, never mentions the work that Dr. G does, even disputing the cobal. form of B12, preferring the meth one. Dr. Klapper needs to get with the program, by citing his sources, as does Dr. G continuously. I'm 72 and each AM, I ingest 1/2t of an algae plant based form of DHA, made locally here in NS, Canada. The safest place to weather a pandemic. btw: *TAKE ANIMALS OFF THE MENU*
@@sammavitae114 Good morning Samma. I buy the 500 ml bottle. Ensure you order the one that says *Plant* on the front. It lasts me 6 months, so the $60 charge is not bad, if it gives us elders a chance at longer brain health. www.nutrasea.ca/products/nutravege
I used to take Nutravege too (I'd add it to my smoothie), but it bugged me that they suspended it in a high omega-6 oil (I can't remember which - maybe safflower), and it wasn't clear how much omega-6 there was per dose. Now I don't bother. I have about 6,500 mg of ALA per day just from the flax and chia seeds in my daily smoothie, and that doesn't include ALA I get from other sources such as the walnuts on my oatmeal, avocado, etc. Even at a low conversion rate I'm still doing well. I continue to monitor this topic though, and like Dr. Klaper I am open to changing my mind on this in future should more compelling evidence arise.
@@jaypee6804 not all fish is that polluted, i dont get why vegans have this insane need to try to make everything sound so horrible. seeds also tend to be high in heavy metals. so there really is no escape.
@@aufhebenx3662 Only for females actually if you look at the data. For females, pescatarian was absolutely the best. For males vegan was absolutely the best. Considering that women have higher omega 3 conversion rates, it simply seem they need them more. And males benefit from vegan diet, as it helps to reduce the risk of all the major killers of males.
@@aufhebenx3662 Also Adventists were vegans for religions reasons not for health. they were not necessarily taking chia seeds and hemp seeds and algae supplements.. Also In the past few decades oceans have become increasing ly more polluted. These studies of Lifelong pescatarians from decades ago become meaningless
Yes flax seed... But people forget that you get ala also from grains, nuts and some vegetables. So the total intake, if you do a whole food diet, is higher than people think.
Wishing B But where is the evidence that the body needs a lot of it? Or that the amount that it converts is not sufficient? So long as omega 6 is not over consumed, no one is yet to suffer an omega 3 deficiency
Linus Pauling wrote about it. Studies of ALA metabolism in healthy young men indicated that approximately 8% of dietary ALA was converted to EPA and 0%-4% was converted to DHA Zero percent is where the problem can happen. It is due to not having estrogen. But some people also have genetic problems of converting.
@@Kristers_K Linus Pauling Institute concluded that: Because of the relatively low rate of ALA conversion into EPA and DHA suggests that these long-chain omega-3 PUFA may be considered conditionally essential nutrients.
I just invested in my first bottle of this. I'm 50ish, and eat a sub optimal mostly vegan diet. I think I'll continue to take a moderate amount. Thanks for posting!
I just started taking vegan DHA 3 weeks ago and I must say my memory has improved so much. There's a sporcle quiz I take almost everyday regarding the cou tried of the world. When I started taking the vegan DHA I do like 20% better with a 90+% score compared to 70+% in the weeks before. Please note i have been doing this quiz like 3 months now.
Were you eating blend Flax seeds in a good quantity ? People consuming flax seeds tend to not see any differences on DHA supplements. I personally didn't notice anything, so i stopped
Thanks for this video, Mic. A few months ago I switched to whole foods plant based (after 3 years as a conventional semi-junk vegan diet), and in doing so I've quit eating anything containing or prepared with oil. So when I heard about the supposed need for DHA, given that the only way for vegans to get that is via algae oil supplements, I've been stuck on the fence.
Maybe you can check all the Vegsource videos that dr. Klaper based his opinion on? Jeff Nelson has a whole series that really convinced me that I don’t need to worry about DHA on a low-fat vegan diet.
I've been hoping all the vegan snack foods will switch to canola oil for the omega ratio. Would have been nice to mention how omega pills are sometimes rancid and how that might affect the outcomes of research. I get a liquid one so I can taste and make sure it's fresh. Plus, I keep it in the fridge.
Hey Mic, I saw a vid just now about DHA Conversion that suggested we get enough DHA from ALA, but it only converts in tissue, rather than in the blood. The study they referenced is called: Is docosahexaenoic acid synthesis from α-linolenic acid sufficient to supply the adult brain? The video is called "The Truth About Omega-3 Conversion: Geoff Palmer" I cant make head or tails of the paper, so maybe something of interest. Pretty much the difference between taking O-3 algae sups or not as a vegan. I just scored 5.14% on my index test so currently upping my dosage to once per day (from one every other day).
Love this video! I stopped taking my algae based supplements because of the prostate cancer relation but do eat plenty of ALA from blended seeds so I should be fine. Hopefully we will get more details from Dr Klaper regarding this subject. I love him, he’s a great doc and very credible!
Did you feel any benefice when you took DHA supplements ? I eat 2 big tablespoon of ground flax seed each day since i started veganism 4 years ago, as this is recommended by some doctor and mic the vegan himself i tried to supplement with algae DHA for 4 months but i saw literally no difference on my skin (who was already smooth) or brain function so i assumed flax seed was already doing the job.
The problem I've run into with these supplements is that the VAST majority of vegan DHA supplements contain carrageenan, which irritates my gut within a few days of taking it.
Dha supplementing is only based on business, as well as those studies you mentioned are founded by dha business. We dont need to make veganism any more complex
agreed! so confused ....since when is dementia and altzheimer's a vegan thing? I don't know one vegan or vegetarian that has or died from dementia or altzheimers but know a LOT of meat and fish eating people who have it or died from it... my mom being one and she took a multi vitamin with omega 3 for probably close to 20 years!!
Thank you. Dr. Rhonda Patrick on found my fitness says it takes a full 6 months for the Omega to build up (she is NOT vegan).This was very interesting. I think some of the brain shrinkage might have to do with lack of creatine too. Great discussion.
The MRI of the brain with an without DHA supplements that Dr. Greger shows is why I take it. I came to WFPB with serious brain problems. Probably Alzheimer's. But I work hard at keeping my brain and that video convinced me most of all.
Thank you so much for this video! Dr. Klaper's video was the exact reason for why I have been a little hesitant to take algea oil. I would be interested to see a video on iodine. In Finland, qualified nutritionists who have specialized in vegan diets recommend a seaweed-based iodine supplement. I know you could get it by eating seaweed as a whole food, but they tend to suggest a supplement due to the fluctuating levels of iodine in different seaweeds.
I'm also interested in iodine. I've read Dr Brownstein's book 'Iodine: Why You Need It' and he shows the benefits of higher doses. Also the book 'Iodine Crisis' by Lynne Farrow. I'm cautious about eating seaweed. Instead I'm taking a few drops of liquid iodine lugol's solution. I wonder if there is any research on this.
@@TimothyJones01 Good points! I just realized that I don't think nutritionists often specify whether the iodine supplement should be "artificial" or seaweed based. I think I've heard some say both would be ok.
? Just eat Japanese food. Nori used for sushi is a very good source. I've never once been worried about low iodine, but I put wakame furikake on most foods cos it's delicious. You can also get vegan vitamins with iodine in if you're worried 👍
@@TimothyJones01 " few drops of liquid iodine lugol's" ? Rather non-quantitative. how often? There are different concentrations, but a full 12% logol's has some 6500µg per drop - which is 40x the RDA of 150µg ! There are many cases where Hashimoto is triggered by Lugol's. Please stay reasonable and don't exceed upper limit of 1100µg iodine per day. No benefits are shown beyond RDA. And sudden increases by surprise can mix up the thyroid hormone system. In addition Logol's contains free iodine which is a disinfecting agent, which has adverse effects inside the body and is unreasonable / non-scientific vodoo. Logol's is a lab chemical not food or medicine.
@@xcast1 Yes, I wasn't being specific but I understand what amounts I'm trying. I didn't want to advocate for anyone else to blindly follow what I do. I recommend reading Dr Brownstein's book. He argues that the RDA of 150ug is inadequate for full body iodine function. That RDA was designed as a measure purely to be enough to prevent goiters. He explains how iodine and iodide both work throughout the body, not just in the thyroid gland. He covers the importance of getting other nutrients like the B vitamins, salt and selenium too. Thanks
Wow. Great video Mic. Thanks so much for your time and effort on this complex topic. It made me feel much better about the supplement I am taking. I remember Klaper’s video which gave me some doubt about supplementing. I appreciate your thorough research.
The problem with inexpensive DHA brands (cheapest product) is that the DHA/EPA oil is poorly protected from oxidation/rancidification because of a poor quality capsule, lack quality antioxidants to prevent oxidation, bottle seal is not ideal, etc. I'm pretty sure rancid DHA is what makes fish smell like fish (partly), and also what gives people fish burps. I do not get fish burps when I take a high-quality non-rancid algae-based omega-3 supplement. Just something to look out for.
Increase of CVD in vegans occurs in vegans who eat "junk" vegan foods, i.e. foods high in sugar and saturated fats (coconut oil, palm oil). CVD is not high in vegans who consume whole food, plant based foods (no highly processed foods, low saturated fats, high in mono & polyunsaturated fats, high in fiber, etc). The studies that look at this issue compare US vegans to UK vegans. It seems that US vegans tend to adopt a vegan diet or health reasons and therefore consume a whole food, plant based vegan diet, whereas UK vegans tend to adopt a "vegan" diet for ethical/animal rights reasons and tend to eat lots of french fries, candy, etc.
I’m rolling hard with wads of kale and a high conversion rate. Plus, I’m so smart that, even if I lost a little grey matter, it would only level the playing field. In twenty years I’ll get back to you about how the study went. I’m not a big fan of supplements, but I’m a big fan of Mic The Vegan 😊👍
Great video. I take a « small sploosh » (i guess about 1 tea spoon) of plant based dha/epa liquid supplement every time i have a smoothie in the morning, which is about 4 times per week (other breakfasts are typically oatmeal and fruit or peanut butter toasts). Mic i’d love it if you could one day do a video on « losing body fat without losing muscle mass). Lots of body builder « coaches » doing vids on this and it is all meat-centric. I am a rock climber, so i want to weight as little as possible with as less body fat as possible (while still remaining close to 20 BMI) but keeping muscle, as rock climbing is VERY intense on muscles all over the body, including core, legs, etc. Thanks for all you do.
For breakfast, I eat at tablespoon of flaxseed, a tablespoon of hemp seed, and a tablespoon of chia seed. I tend to just mix it in with oatmeal. But I also take 2 g of EPA-DHA supplements every day. I'm more concerned about brain health than I am about prostate cancer. Just my two cents!
Watch on UA-cam Dr Tim Radak on essential fatty acids, do vegans require to supplement with DHA, also watch on UA-cam Brian Peskin and his interviews with Doctors. Personally I have been studying fats for almost two years and I have come to the personal conclusion that DHA supplementation is not necessary when on a well planned Plant Based Diet. I believe that this DHA thing is a complete scam and that supplementing with DHA may be very unhealthy.
@@relaxgood512 I watched The video that you recommended. While DHA supplements may not be necessary, there is medical evidence that these supplements may help regulate heart rhythms and help to prevent sudden cardiac death, especially among patients with heart disease. So, for certain people, the benefits of 2 g per day of supplements outweighs the risks.
@@wordswitha7 Yep too many people don't seem to understand that. I keep repeating it, but it doesn't register. Maybe the "damage" by lack of DHA has been done already?
@intempify a possible explanation for meat eaters is not evidence that vegans can efficiently convert ala... 'did you watch the same video?' a bit unecessary 🙄
@@wordswitha7 No, that claim is not supportable. There isn't just enough known yet. And there is a long history in the supplement industry of recommending supplement X only later to discover that there are harmful effects. At this point, all you can do (as Mic did) is weigh the pros and cons and come to a personal decision.
Although humans don't strictly need long chain omega 3s in our diet the fact that we seem to benefit from long chain omega 3s as well as iodine suggests that our ancestors probably regularly incorporated some algae into their diet(many verieties of edible algae are high in long chain omega 3s and iodine with the exact content depending on the species) and we might benefit from either supplementing these nutrients or incorporating some algae into our diet.
Summarised portion of information (note it down) Sweet spot for EPA & DHA = 400mg to 1200mg Turmeric increases ALA conversation rate (but tested on mice)
Are DHA supplements even necessary when eating a balanced whole foods vegan diet? If I have flaxseeds, nuts, legumes, tahini etc. on a daily basis, is that not enough for omegas and DHA?
I think that depends on how much omega 6 you’re eating. If you eat 85% whole food plant based w/ minimal refined food such as oil, you may not need DHA supplements.
Omega 3 suplements don't work in general I took them for years not any changes to me, I hate fish it tastes and smell so bad, and I was having brain fog due DHA deficiency.
@@NiaLaLa_V The problem is most people that eat ground flax seeds everyday don't notice any difference with supplementation, i personally took DHA for 4 months, zero difference, so i finish by conclude it was useless and flax seeds were doing the job.
I don't eat flax or chia. I only use hemp seeds when I want a creamy salad dressing base. I take an algae supplement. I guess I'm low-risk for prostrate cancer. Being female also helps. One of these vegan doctors is fiercely anti-supplement, I don't remember which, but I think I'm done with these "it might possibly" videos. I don't think the science of might or might not kill me is fun, or interesting.
Not having a prostate isn't an escape, it's just that no one made a study yet. For example milk causes prostate cancer but it causes breast cancer in women.
Thanks. Yes it's so tricky: when Dr. Klaper's video came out I didn't order my algal omega3 supplement which was due as my stock was nearly finished. Then some months later, after Dr. Greger and Dr. Fuhrman said they continued taking it and I thought and thought about it, finally I ordered a low dose, 300mg DHA which I take on alternate days. I'm particular about ground flaxseeds and walnuts... upsetting the body's ability to make long chain fatty acids, and that back up issue of EPA bothers me. So a low dose on alternate days... at 63 I'm way past 50 so the subject is a concerning one. Decisions, decisions. Well thanks for the video. 😊👍
Great video overall, and I'm a patron, but why did you say that about B12 at the end! B12 supplementation is extremely inexpensive, there's no U shaped curve for health outcomes vs intake within the reasonable range, and it can prevent extremely dangerous acute symptoms as well as (probably) long-term stroke risk in vegans. Dr. Greger just did a whole series on this. Most people are not going to get their MMA levels checked. Take a B12 supplement and tell your subscribers to do the same, like you usually do, please!
Anecdotally, my brain is functioning better than it did when I started. Can't prove that it is that. But my executive function has improved dramatically. I was unable to function for years with my brain breakdown and I can function now. Still working on improving it but it is so much better. I had gotten years behind in work and I am almost caught up. It was scary.
@Nickie I did both at different times. Both helped. Two years into my vegan diet I still had horrible executive function. I was desperate to get anything done at work but it was so hard.
@Nickie Yeah, it can be terrifying. Seven or eight years ago I had such a bad brain break-down and I was still having hallucinations and psychotic episodes and night terrors and vision problems when I found Dr. Greger. I used to sit in the middle of the night watching his videos because of how terrified I was from the night terrors. Another woman came on the site back then and had experienced a lot of the same symptoms at menopause and she went on hormone replacement therapy and I went on Omega 3 and other things. I don't have those issues almost ever anymore except when I stop supplementing and I hate pills so that happens. Memory-wise, when I had the brain break-down I also did have such memory problems and executive function problems and I had freaky things while driving where I felt like my vision was going to stop and I couldn't tell which side of the road I was on. The other woman had the exact same thing happen. People who are young and who grew up Whole Food Plant-Based their whole lives can debate this intellectually but they may cause someone to end up with Alzheimer's or something like that and I have had such benefit with DHA that I might stand up for it too much. But people with brain problems should be doing everything possible to protect their brains. Thank you for being sweet. Wishing you healing and courage, too.
@Nickie I have gone on and off of DHA and on again and I know that it helps me with vision and brain function. I no longer have night vision problems and that is crazy unbelievable to me. I had stopped being able to drive at night. Then, stopped being able to drive at all. Then, got back to driving except at night and got pulled over twice at night with no ticket. Then, the night vision problems went away. I end up having all of these stupid arguments but in reality, I just love DHA.
9 Year vegan here - it is so easy to get Omega-3 by taking ~1Tbsp of ground chia & flax seed. I have been adding this to my oatmeal daily. I stopped taking the supplements over two years ago. Going for my blood test soon.
Did you feel any benefice when you took DHA supplements ? I eat 2 big tablespoon of ground flax seed each day since i started veganism 4 years ago, as this is recommended by some doctor and mic the vegan himself i tried to supplement with algae DHA for 4 months but i saw literally no difference on my skin (who was already smooth) or brain function so i assumed flax seed was already doing the job.
Thank you for your videos man. I love the way you present the information and the open minded perspective you seem to uphold. Good science has always my respect.
I’m sort of surprised by the conclusions Dr. Klaper came to, given his reasoning and the research presented. I guess this was a couple years ago. I wonder how he feels about it now.
I've always wondered if the body upregulates conversion from ALA in the absence of DHA. Since conversion rates seem to vary quite widely in the literature, I wonder if you go vegan your body might boost from 2% conversion to 10%... in this scenario taking an exogenous DHA supplement would downregulate conversion and youd ultimately be reliant on the supplement. This is just my theory. My husband is allergic to fish and so did not ingest DHA growing up apart from *very* occasional non-sentient bi-valves. He seems fine so far! Very scientific, I know ;)
I think it's true. The body does a similar thing with 'anti-nutrients' such as phytic acid. Vegans are exposed to more phytic acid, so the gut adapts by producing an enzyme called phytase to suppress the effects. Pretty interesting stuff.
Taking what, DHA?, cos they are like all the other Vegan nutrient myths such as Protein, Calcium, Iron etc, totally unnecessary. Only B12 is necessary.
@@Kiyarose3999 vitamin d is actually really important too for vegans, been vegan for several years and inconsistently supplemented with it and my levels kept falling until I became deficient for a while until I started supplementing more frequently
Mike with the awkward laugh when talking about some people not being open to changing their mind when new information is created or reaches them. I think cognitive dissonance on the heart disease reversal might have hit him at that point.
This was some A+ research! Great job presenting and analyzing the pros and cons. I’m going to keep taking mine. Btw, I noticed I’m getting a ton of manganese in my plant-based diet. I’d love to see a video on any risks of getting too much.
Apparently it is hard to overdose as you need to exceed 50 mg. Symptoms are neurological disorders with symptoms similar to Parkinson's from chronic manganese poisoning.
I was eating around 1-3 ounce of ground flax/chia per day I was getting horrible constipation and also got floaters in my eyes and a skin rash. My cells felt overly permeable to the point of barely not having a cell wall at all. So I think walnuts and hempseed or canola oil is a better option than flax and chia. Seems like we not meant to eat the tasteless mucusy gel stuffs
Problem with stored lipids "PUFAS" oxidize quickly and at varying Temps, so if you would animal sources would be eat the fish or from the root source would be algea.
This is all so confusing! On the back of research, I started taking algal oil... Cue horrible depression and period pain. A lot of women take evening primrose oil for that, which as I understand is mostly omega 6. So... I feel best on flax and chia seeds in my breakfast daily, and one capsule of evening primrose oil, using little to no oil in cooking (as in, frying in water, adding a couple drops of chilli sesame oil to food). Very confusing to know what's best to do, but if I don't feel great then even if I'm "technically" healthier then what's the point?
Go to the doctor and get your omega 3 levels checked. A lot of people are very bad converts. You could be a good converter and not need any supplementation or your Omega 3 levels could be dangerously low without supplementation (dangerously low predisposes you to neurological disorders and alzheimers).
Hey mic, love your videos! I been going through the rabbit hole on this whole DHA thing and theres a video from vegsource saying that the study that gregeer uses as his basis for recommending DHA supplements is flawed with various things like a small group of test subjects, they were allowed to smoke and other stuff. Can talk about it please?
ua-cam.com/video/c8_kTtWUnf8/v-deo.html Here is the link to the video. Please respond because it seemed pretty compelling at convincing people not to take DHA supplemention
Good Karma flax milk seems to deliver a lot of Omega 3 so I keep the algae oil caps in the fridge for those weeks the store runs out of flax milk, which is rare. Walnuts go great with that as well.
@Mic the Vegan, You should put a warning on this video, multiple people on amazon have said that "Our Daily Vites" omega 3 supplement (that you displayed in this video) might actually be fish oil! (which would explain why it has such high omega 3 content and the low price).
Hello Mic! Can you pretty please do an updated SuperMeat video? They have supposedly succeeded in creating lab grown meat and are now selling it. Just curious if they lived up to the ethical standards they initially set.
I don't like eating flax or chia seeds so I take an algae DHA supplement (250mg) but only every other day. I haven't noticed any difference since I started taking it, but I do it as insurance against brain shrinkage. When I get older I think I'll take it everyday. I wish there was a food source of high ALA that I like that won't give me cystic acne. The acne went away when I started eating low fat. I do like and eat a lot of seaweed, but I'm not sure if they have any DHA in good amount.
The mid-life trial was strange in that they only did neuroimaging on a subset of the people. I say it because males and postmenopausal women don't always convert well is what I read because of estrogen. The study had more females and the females were likely pre-menopausal, so it matters which ones brains were examined.
Dr Neil Barnard has also mentioned this on the Rich Roll podcast - regarding vegan AND non vegan SUPPLEMENTATION He suggested getting tested before supplementing. WHat do you think?
Interestingly, most vegan supplements that I just checked contain sunflower oil. I only found one that doesn't and that one doesn't list separate DHA/EPA content, only total.
This video by chance came few hours after I commented this post quoted below *) on yesterdays Gregers Q & A Video :-) Considering your video and sources, I still don't change my (negative) opinion on DHA/EPA supplements - even when supposedly "low" dosed (see below what is low). There are many studies on brain and DHA supplements. And only that 1 small Witte study with error bar near effect size (+ that new weak 2019 semi result) opposed to majority of failure studies. The Witte study has many flaws not mentioned in your vid: Those old overweight women consume sunflower oil in Berlin - I watch and know the habits there. ~ 1:1 canola : sunflower oil in shops. Only the elderly still buy the sunflower. They get quite no canola or flax, and likely have essential ALA deficiency as it was before year 2000 in general population. The placebo delivered extra sunflower oil (!) without Vitamin E, while the DHA group got E in addition!? 2.2g DHA+EPA is a massive blood thiner and those atherosclerotic old women of course get better blood supply in their clogged up brains - which might deliverer all kinds of phantastic results, unlikely having to do with the DHA molecules magic specific properties. Yet those old clogged up women should better get harmless blood thinners like ASS (when benefits outweight the blood thinning risks) and a (semi-)vegan plague reversal diet. At the beginning of Gregers video with the Witte study a diagram shows that as opposoed to Gregers stated "correlation", there is quite no correlation between blood DHA and brain cell DHA - except perhaps for that lowest data point which may result from extreme ALA deficiency (watch the y axis cutoff). Liver DHA production plus brain DHA uptake and self-synthesis are both highly regulated, and its proven that intake of "little" DHA quickly downregulates liver production to almost zero. Also EPA blood levels natually are very low (in vegans and non-fish omnivores without hyperphysiological overflow by food or supplement), while DHA is comparatively high but not so high that it raises this silly combined Omega3-Index beyond 4.4%. So the body doesn't want all that excess super rancid LCO3 crap in the body. It quickly burns it with high priority with a little carefully regulated exception for DHA. Those older CVS / mortality benefits of LCO3 have been discarded by the 2018 Cochrane etc - and likely existed in the past before 2000 because of non-existent canola and flax seed consumption in general population, and in short term controlled studies. The PMID 17955332 shows how ALA / canola appearance rapidly and precisely cut down heart disease mortality - and made subsequent LCO3 studies fail. Similarly the Lyon Diet Heart study. 2g ALA /day vs no-ALA was and is extremely effective and necessary and was shown in Chochranes, and sweeps / saturates the questionable LCO3 benefits - without the adverse effects: The bigest RCT with ALA __and__ DHA/EPA and placebo (and ALA+LCO3) was the Alpha Omega Trial PMID 20929341: It showed that DHA/EPA alone (see extra Figure in the authors response letter #1 - scroll down on nejm dot org page) turned things adverse beyond 24 months (!) - as it was shown in the , DHA/EPA was worthless in addition to ALA. And in the Appendix Table 3 shows again, as a secondary RCT result (!) some factor 2 significant increase of incident prostate cancer (!) , besides gastrointestinal problems (when both DHA/EPA groups are combined). After just 40 months, which is very very short for cancer! And the dose 400 mg DHA+EPA was very low regarding common habits and your standard - while newer science (Domenichiello) shows brain needs of just about 3mg/day DHA - which is easily produced in the liver. There are just about 5000mg DHA total in the brain. Zhang 2014 PMID 24568238 Review on 19 RCTs also shows: EPA&DHA near-significantly causes cancer after few years. And so does VITAL RCT 2018 PMID 30415637. So even with that supposely low doses there is likely a factor 10 overestimate of real internal DHA needs and a lot of dangers. Why should so much super rancids, highly unsaturated molecules cylce in the blood? Even excess ALA is quickly removed from the blood. But for DHA and EPA the clearance is about 24x slower (because the regulation mechanism is evolutionary focused on production not clearance there by exception) I could write more for my reasons, but it would become too long. Maybe more later. Overall the reasoning network which you present in this vid doesn't show settled proves, cherry picks for preoccupied assumptions only certain (old/short) studies which don't collide. Benefits masquerade is likely caused by false pre year 2000 ALA deficiency (which is still there in old people because of their outdated diet habits), and by blood thinning "pseudo medication" confounding via risky LCO3 overflow. => 2.0g+ ALA. Best no DHA supplement, no fish, never super rancid DHA fortified foods (quick peroxidation). If you still fear you liver DHA production collapsed (which is by far not a widely known metabolic disease/disorder) , then max 50mg DHA+EPA per day (12mg DHA completely replaces natural liver production). If your arteries are clogged up, BMI and blood pressure high etc., then use less harmfull blood thinners like ASS, and switch for a healthy reversal diet. *) My comment on Gregers Q&A Video (TfvEO8xyD-s) : "17 : 02 Top 5 or 6 supplements : he mentioned B12, D3, DHA, turmeric, amla, nigella. 1 + 2 👍. DHA doesn't show benefits when controlled for 2g+ ALA in the diet and when sick atherosclerotic people at the verge of needing blood thinning medication use another less harmful blood thiner like ASS. The DHA rant is a comedy of cause and effect errors in that regard. On the other side DHA intake shows cancer risk increase even with that supposedly low dose, immunosuppression, adverse blood thining / increased bleeding, increase of cardiovascular risks longterm, LDL increase. The body needs only some 3mg DHA / day in the brain and the liver easily produces an excess 12mg+, in a well regulated steady manner. In most regions outside US a selenium supplement is critical. And iodine almost everywhere - in addition to iodized salt, when there is not a reliable source from special foods like see weeds / algae (where contents vary) - and that is the case for most vegans and vegetarians. "
I'm young, but I've been taking about 900mg algae omega 3s (including 500mg DHA, and 250mg EPA) for 2 years. I exercise a lot and I've found that it helps with joint and muscle issues I've had, I think because it is anti inflammatory. Wondering if that has anything to do with the brain stuff too... 🤔
Were you eating ground flax seed or chia seed everyday ? I eat them everyday but as it is recommanded to supplement in DHA as we don't know yet if ALA is enough, i supplemented for 4 months and i saw literally no difference.
@@krjohnson29 So you think you were eating some how many time a week ? Chia and flax's omega 3 are not absorbed if you don't ground them or chew them intensively.
@@KayleJudicator Right, yeah I usually use flax in baking. I grind it up first of course. And chia seeds in smoothies and pudding. Hard to say exactly how much I was having per week. But I've gone through several bags of flax and chia seeds (over a fairly long period of time, though, maybe 5 or six years). It varies from week to week but I would say maybe a teaspoon per week? Many weeks would have more, but also many with none at all.
@@StephyGrowsWeed so I did a little research and if you eat 30 grams of Chlorella vulgaris, you get 1000mg of Omega 3. Since only 0.3% of Chorella's omega-3 is made of DHA, you only get about 3mg of preformed DHA. So unfortunately neither Chlorella nor Spirulina seem to be reliable sources of DHA. I'm curious what species of commercial microalgae are used to make the vegan DHA suppliments. Does anyone know?
Just in case you think endorsements don't work-- I bought 3 bottles of the DHA you mentioned. The affordability argument based on taking smaller dosages was what convinced me. I've actually wanted to take DHA for 10 years but never did because of the cost. These 3 bottles for 58 dollars total could last me a year by doing a smaller dosage. That's 5 dollars per month (you said 4 dollars but there were shipping costs even though I decreased even that by buying 3 bottles). I'm over 60 years old.
I don't think he's worried about whether endorsements work; he's worried about what they might do to his neutrality. Endorsing products and making money from that would open him to accusations of commercial bias, weakening his perceived credibility. I could also subconsciously bias his recommendations, creating the temptation to exaggerate or skew his advice according to what might make him more money.
@@fearofaveganplanet8513 I don't worry if someone is promoting a product. If they are a consumer of supplements, they might be more concerned about the quality and third party verification of the products they represent.
@@SunFellow941 You might not worry, but plenty of people are eager to find fault with him and find a reason to dismiss his ideas. Mic is an important resource in the vegan community and I think it's important that he remains neutral, especially commercially.
Did you feel any benefice, i didn't feel any benefice while supplementing with algae DHA for 4 months, i used to eat flax seed every single day, so i suppose flax seeds does the job.
@@KayleJudicator A follow up: I started taking DHA because of this video. A few months later I broke out in the shingles and chickenpox simultaneously! This usually happens when your immune system is weak, but my doctor couldn't find a reason why my immune system should be weak. Six weeks later I was listening to a lecture by Dr. John McDougall and he said that omega 3's could make your immune system weak (an immunosuppressant), which is why he didn't recommend supplements or oils rich in omega 3s. I was shocked! So I quit taking it and just eat walnuts instead.
Dr fuhrman's argument in favor of his Dha supplements is that his ate packed in glass and not rancid. I have tried the cheap stuff on amazon but not sure I'm getting the quality. What kind do you take? Also it is very important for my mental stability- noticed I've been slightly more depressed with the cheap stuff. Absorption problem?
This is what bothers me about the vegan movement sometimes. Some of these people are so afraid of their food or so afraid of their supplements. Like the ones who tell you not to eat nuts because they're high in fat. It's time to relax, eat food, enjoy it, and be grateful that animals aren't suffering in order to make it possible.
@@Derizo Years of experience and study. Veganism cannot sustain health in the long term in the majority of cases. A few people can do it, but they are in the vast minority.
Hey Mic, I would definitely not mind you putting affiliate links in your description for products you yourself would use. I just bought omega supplements and would definitely have used your link if i knew there was one :)
I think he wants to avoid doing that to keep his neutrality. If he did that kind of thing, he could be open to accusations of commercial bias in his recommendations, but also it could subconsciously bias what he recommends.
Same conclusion here! I'll continue to take my Omega-3 algae oil capsule every day. It provides me with 250 mg DHA and 125 mg EPA, and I'm good. Also my Omega3:6 ratio is 1:4, which is near perfect.
I did not take it for over a year after 4 years vegan. Certainly nothing that seems to offer short term effects to someone eating flax, hemp and other nuts/seeds daily. But figured it be cool to have a brain if my heart keeps pumping to 90, so grabbed a bottle a week ago and will keep taking it now that it’s half the price for twice the potency as a couple years back
I think I consume far too much Omega 6 vs Omega 3, roughly 16:1 perhaps, from all the nuts, peanut butter, oils etc. Since the ratio needs to be 1:1 and Omega 6 has an inflammatory response, while Omega 3 has an anti-inflammatory response, I don't think taking maybe 200-400 DHA just as a safe measure has any risks that outweigh the benefits.
So I eat 4 tbs of flax a day on top of a high omega 3 diet (bananas, broccoli, etc). No supplements. I get between 200-400% omega 3 a day. No pills. Think im doing okay. My doc forgot to do my blood dha upon request last year so this year will be interesting..
the conversion rate of Omega3 (ALA) into DHA and EPA is kinds lowish though. Check that out maybe. „In healthy young women, approximately 21% of dietary ALA was converted to EPA and 9% was converted to DHA....“ some sources state much lower rates though
@@StephyGrowsWeed yes but keep in mind there was a study that found if your body is low in DHA it will convert more to get it. So if you have an excess of ALA im sure it can go higher to DHA
Here's my question, what about south pacific islanders who for centuries relied on fish as a staple like hawaiians, Samoans, and Tongans. They got tons of DHA and Were their men falling over dead from prostate cancer or did they life long healthy lifes?? I say take your algae based DHA people and let common sense be your guide.
Mic that's a lot of talk on Flax and Linseed; I eat 30g of walnuts a day for my ALA needs. Is there any research that points to walnuts being inferior?
I've wondered about that. Walnuts seem to be the best and have other excellent micronutrients. I think ? there is an avoidance of recommending walnuts due to the fat content/how easy it is to over eat them.
@Amanda Glover Flaxseeds are a better source of omega 3 than walnuts due their more favorable omega 3 to 6 ratio, that is 1:4 for flax and 4:1 for walnuts - that means, flaxs are 16 times better than walnuts
@@babyelian77 According to Chronometer; Flax 30g: 6.8g omega 3, 1.8g omega 6 Walnut 30g: 2.7g omega 3, 11.4g omega 6 Checks out, thanks for the tip! Walnuts are where I get all of my fats though, I'd be scared to go to flax as I'd be getting barely any fat! Might enable me to get some almonds in to bolster my protein and calcium.
@@Pepperoni Indeed, it makes no sense to eat walnuts (besides the taste...) only to get omega 3 - interesting enough flax has about 120 calories less than walnuts per 100 grams. Chia seeds are rather a good source of omega 3, almost as good as flax with a ratio omega 3 to 6 ~ 3 (unlike a ratio of ~ 4 for flaxs)
I often wonder whether omega 3 supplementation is beneficial to omnivores simply because it repairs the damage done by the inflammatory omega 6 and 9 that are so abundant in their diet. If I'm on a diet low in omega 6 and 9, then do I really need that much omega 3?
@@gardenofeels6872 you put your two brain cells together and thought sunflower oil is vegan so vegans must have higher omega 6 diets 😂. Nonsense the standard vegan diet is way healthier than SAD
@@King_Kenlee She (?) said omnivore diet, not SAD diet. The two aren't one and the same, you know. Nor did she say that either of the two was healthier than the standard vegan diet. And you talk about her two brain cells??
Oops, I just had a look at my supplement nad it says to only use 1/2 teaspoon, meanwhile I've been filling up 1 normal spoon (about 3 teaspoons, I think) for 2 years 😅 Maybe it's time to cut down a little...
I’m not sure what you consider affordable, but I just found an algae supplement on Amazon w/o carrageenan. The brand is Sports Research and it was around $20 for a month supply
carrageenan not a big deal according to Dr. Greger its in small amount so you should not cut off healthy essential DHA i also bite it (and spit out the pill layer ) cause if i remember DHA is better absorbed in the mouth than low down the pipe source : Live Q&A with Dr. Greger of NutritionFacts.org on June 27th at 1 pm ET. ua-cam.com/video/bQ68libFqwI/v-deo.html Is Carrageenan Safe? ua-cam.com/video/w8zoPKID_eM/v-deo.html
@@wellthi I already have a bowel condition, so I'm especially worried about carrageenan. I did order some dha supplements though, and it's unclear whether or not they contain it. Ill look into the biting thing, that sounds like it might be a good idea
Mic I remember in one of your earlier videos you mentioned that some people (certain communities) can convert ALA to DHA better than others? Is this right?
I drink flax milk every day, but you're saying that by supplementing dha and epa, that ala won't convert, then what's the point of taking flax and chia then.
Dr. Klaper changed his mind. He's now taking Omega-3 supplements. (He did a UA-cam video explaining his reasons for doing so on March 9.)
Most people eat absolutely no sea foods in the west. Still they are worried about DHA on vegans. None of my friends eat fish at all.
U can get it from meat other then fish. Just high in fish.
Like all vegans you are incredible dumb to think DHA is only found in fish.
Well, fat in meat contains Omega 3... so take omega 3 supplements
Only grass fed meat which most people don't eat, and even grass fed meat has only very little that would not make any difference. You're not going to get an average of 200 mg of DHA a day without fish
@@dj-fe4ck 200 mg of DHA is a made up number. People are testing for DHA and EPA who don't eat fish or eggs (eggs have some DHA) and they still have normal omega 3's in the blood. Paul Saladino is one of them, he just eats fatty meat. Also, brain of the animal is high in omega 3's like fish, but then again, all these extra omega 3's aren't needed and they are possibly harmful
And 9 March 2023 Dr. Klaper posted a video that his levels were dropping each year since 2020, and that he is now starting to take DHA supplements again.
I know its not exactly your thing, but maybe you could do a video on how to choose safe, reliable supplement brands?
Check out the brand yourself. Look for FDA recalls, and how they responded to them if there were any. Look for safety testing, and if they post results with batch numbers. Don't rely on vegan influencers, your health is your job.
@@NiaLaLa_V I was giving him a video suggestion that might help his nearly half a million subscribers who might not all have the free time to do extensive research into every supplement they take. Considering the amount of research he does regularly, I thought that maybe he's come across some "red flag" (or alternatively, "green flag") brands that it'd be helpful for us to know about. While you're correct that you shouldn't solely rely on him as a source, it can't hurt to use his research-based opinion as a head start.
Global healing brand is the best
One thing you SHOULD have mentioned is that Dr. Klaper is talking about this issue in the context of his OTHER recommendations. He is opposed to oil. (He is fine with nuts and seeds and avocado in moderation.) This means that people on his diet are not getting excessive omega 6s. Past studies argued that the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 is important. Because his recommendations mean that one is relatively low in omega 6, the omega 3 supplement may become less important/useful. If you are pounding down the omega 6 oils, you should probably more seriously consider an omega 3 supplement (or better yet, cut back on the omega 6s).
I do totally agree. On the omega 6 . and omega 3 ratio. If people that eat less omega 6. then their also less omega 3 . And we only need 5 to 10% of. Or calories from fat anyway. Be my understanding
It’s also noticeable that’s more percent of omega 3 in your diet. Those not mean necessarily that your body absorb it more.
I agree with this. When I was in grad school for nutrition, one of my professors was very involved on omega 3 research. We had a guest lecturer come and speak. He mentioned that fish get their DHA and omega 3s from eating algae or algae eating fish.
That's exactly what came to my mind
@@karentodd2678 what are the effects of low Omega 3?
Can't say I've ever noticed any brain function differences with omega 3 intake but my face explodes with acne when I don't get any and I'll experience menstrual cramps. Seeds do work to keep me pain free and to clear my skin, I find hemp particularly effective, but sometimes I just get so bored of eating them every single day! I find an algae supplement to be more sustainable for me and I just eat seeds whenever I want them or if I can't afford the supplement.
Another supplement vegans can add to their list.
@@microsofttechsupp0rtplaysc784 What are others on the list ? B12? Vitamin D isn't this same for omnivores as well. They take fish oil supps as well.
@@markythesharky007 You can say all you want but omnivores need 0 supplements. You're diet does need a list of supplements because it does not contain all the nutrition a human needs.
@@microsofttechsupp0rtplaysc784 :D You need to research a little i think, where do u think the B12 comes from Animals? Animals get injected by B12, and for Vitamin D its from Sun not meat or milk.
I did say seeds work, a supplement is just easier for me on a day to day basis which I'm sure is what people that eat animals think when they take fish oil supplements. 🤷♀️
When I was in grad school for nutrition, I had a lecture from a researcher specializing in Omega 3 FA metabolism and impacts on chronic disease, and he also said that he did not support widespread supplementation of omega 3s because they can impact cell membrane permeability. But his concern was more pointed to the idea that taking supplements could lead to over-supplementation as most people in the population are also getting DHA/EPA from food as well. I think the real issue is not whether you take supplements, but rather how much are you taking.
Dha is one of the most important supps you can take for your body and brain a famous scientist worked this out years ago.
I take one-seventh of the amount recommended by the vendor of my DHA/EPA capules, just 500mg/300mg per week. Stopped my one damaged finger joint seizing up. When I took the full dose my skin got weirdly delicate, so I cut it drastically. I am old.
Hey man… Klaper scared the crapper out of me (cymbal crash) but you just alleviated my fears. I’m going back to a moderate dose supplement today. Thank you so much. No really, thanks for existing.
Mike, Dr. Klapper in your short clip speaks to "high levels" meaning fish. He, good as he is, never mentions the work that Dr. G does, even disputing the cobal. form of B12, preferring the meth one. Dr. Klapper needs to get with the program, by citing his sources, as does Dr. G continuously. I'm 72 and each AM, I ingest 1/2t of an algae plant based form of DHA, made locally here in NS, Canada. The safest place to weather a pandemic. btw: *TAKE ANIMALS OFF THE MENU*
Would you mind posting the name of that algae brand. I’d like to see if I can get it here in Ontario.
@@sammavitae114 Good morning Samma. I buy the 500 ml bottle. Ensure you order the one that says *Plant* on the front. It lasts me 6 months, so the $60 charge is not bad, if it gives us elders a chance at longer brain health. www.nutrasea.ca/products/nutravege
I used to take Nutravege too (I'd add it to my smoothie), but it bugged me that they suspended it in a high omega-6 oil (I can't remember which - maybe safflower), and it wasn't clear how much omega-6 there was per dose. Now I don't bother. I have about 6,500 mg of ALA per day just from the flax and chia seeds in my daily smoothie, and that doesn't include ALA I get from other sources such as the walnuts on my oatmeal, avocado, etc. Even at a low conversion rate I'm still doing well. I continue to monitor this topic though, and like Dr. Klaper I am open to changing my mind on this in future should more compelling evidence arise.
@@iansilver4853 thx for this info and response, I agree!
@@iansilver4853 how many tbsp of flax chia and walnuts do u take a day?
Eating fish to get omega 3 is like drinking sewage to get water
@Az Lean This metaphor isn’t about vitamin absorption, it’s about the immense amount of heavy metals and other toxins found in fish.
@@jaypee6804 not all fish is that polluted, i dont get why vegans have this insane need to try to make everything sound so horrible. seeds also tend to be high in heavy metals. so there really is no escape.
@@aufhebenx3662 Only for females actually if you look at the data. For females, pescatarian was absolutely the best. For males vegan was absolutely the best. Considering that women have higher omega 3 conversion rates, it simply seem they need them more. And males benefit from vegan diet, as it helps to reduce the risk of all the major killers of males.
@@aufhebenx3662 Also Adventists were vegans for religions reasons not for health. they were not necessarily taking chia seeds and hemp seeds and algae supplements.. Also In the past few decades oceans have become increasing ly more polluted. These studies of Lifelong pescatarians from decades ago become meaningless
Yep
Neither Mic nor Klaper brought up the hexane issue, a harmful petroleum-derived solvent used to extract fatty acids from algae
Yes flax seed... But people forget that you get ala also from grains, nuts and some vegetables. So the total intake, if you do a whole food diet, is higher than people think.
Indeed, it's the total food consumption that matters, yet so many anti vegans only take the seeds and their conversion alone into account. :)
Yes but males and post-menopausal females don't convert it well. And nuts have Omega 6 and can mess up the Omega 3 and 6 ratio.
Wishing B But where is the evidence that the body needs a lot of it? Or that the amount that it converts is not sufficient? So long as omega 6 is not over consumed, no one is yet to suffer an omega 3 deficiency
Linus Pauling wrote about it. Studies of ALA metabolism in healthy young men indicated that approximately 8% of dietary ALA was converted to EPA and 0%-4% was converted to DHA Zero percent is where the problem can happen. It is due to not having estrogen. But some people also have genetic problems of converting.
@@Kristers_K Linus Pauling Institute concluded that: Because of the relatively low rate of ALA conversion into EPA and DHA suggests that these long-chain omega-3 PUFA may be considered conditionally essential nutrients.
I just invested in my first bottle of this. I'm 50ish, and eat a sub optimal mostly vegan diet. I think I'll continue to take a moderate amount. Thanks for posting!
I just started taking vegan DHA 3 weeks ago and I must say my memory has improved so much. There's a sporcle quiz I take almost everyday regarding the cou tried of the world. When I started taking the vegan DHA I do like 20% better with a 90+% score compared to 70+% in the weeks before. Please note i have been doing this quiz like 3 months now.
Were you eating blend Flax seeds in a good quantity ? People consuming flax seeds tend to not see any differences on DHA supplements. I personally didn't notice anything, so i stopped
Can you just answer, it's important to collect datas on veganism.
There is no such thing as vegan DHA.
@@lashedbutnotleashed1984 There is. Algae oil is a great vegan source for DHA and EPA.
what brand ,please?
the prostate cancer studies were on fish oil not algae oil. The former is much more likely to be contaminated with PCBs dioxins etc
Your video is the best analysis of this topic I have seen so far. Thanks for that, Mic!
Thanks for this video, Mic. A few months ago I switched to whole foods plant based (after 3 years as a conventional semi-junk vegan diet), and in doing so I've quit eating anything containing or prepared with oil. So when I heard about the supposed need for DHA, given that the only way for vegans to get that is via algae oil supplements, I've been stuck on the fence.
A supplement is less than a gram of oil a day. That's pretty close to no oil.
Maybe you can check all the Vegsource videos that dr. Klaper based his opinion on? Jeff Nelson has a whole series that really convinced me that I don’t need to worry about DHA on a low-fat vegan diet.
@Laszlo Vegh Harsh. I do eat flax seeds daily and I limit foods rich in omega-6 so I think I'll be fine.
I've been hoping all the vegan snack foods will switch to canola oil for the omega ratio. Would have been nice to mention how omega pills are sometimes rancid and how that might affect the outcomes of research. I get a liquid one so I can taste and make sure it's fresh. Plus, I keep it in the fridge.
That does seem to be the problem with omega 3s, you can't buy most forms of them in bulk and expect them to last.
Hey Mic, I saw a vid just now about DHA Conversion that suggested we get enough DHA from ALA, but it only converts in tissue, rather than in the blood.
The study they referenced is called: Is docosahexaenoic acid synthesis from α-linolenic acid sufficient to supply the adult brain?
The video is called "The Truth About Omega-3 Conversion: Geoff Palmer"
I cant make head or tails of the paper, so maybe something of interest.
Pretty much the difference between taking O-3 algae sups or not as a vegan. I just scored 5.14% on my index test so currently upping my dosage to once per day (from one every other day).
Love this video! I stopped taking my algae based supplements because of the prostate cancer relation but do eat plenty of ALA from blended seeds so I should be fine. Hopefully we will get more details from Dr Klaper regarding this subject. I love him, he’s a great doc and very credible!
Did you feel any benefice when you took DHA supplements ?
I eat 2 big tablespoon of ground flax seed each day since i started veganism 4 years ago, as this is recommended by some doctor and mic the vegan himself i tried to supplement with algae DHA for 4 months but i saw literally no difference on my skin (who was already smooth) or brain function so i assumed flax seed was already doing the job.
The problem I've run into with these supplements is that the VAST majority of vegan DHA supplements contain carrageenan, which irritates my gut within a few days of taking it.
Wow, I just checked mine and it has carrageenan. Didn't even know.
Dha supplementing is only based on business, as well as those studies you mentioned are founded by dha business. We dont need to make veganism any more complex
agreed! so confused ....since when is dementia and altzheimer's a vegan thing? I don't know one vegan or vegetarian that has or died from dementia or altzheimers but know a LOT of meat and fish eating people who have it or died from it... my mom being one and she took a multi vitamin with omega 3 for probably close to 20 years!!
Thank you. Dr. Rhonda Patrick on found my fitness says it takes a full 6 months for the Omega to build up (she is NOT vegan).This was very interesting. I think some of the brain shrinkage might have to do with lack of creatine too. Great discussion.
The MRI of the brain with an without DHA supplements that Dr. Greger shows is why I take it. I came to WFPB with serious brain problems. Probably Alzheimer's. But I work hard at keeping my brain and that video convinced me most of all.
Could you link me the video please?
would love to see the link also! wanan see that MRI
@@Es3iya nutritionfacts.org/video/should-vegans-take-dha-to-preserve-brain-function/
Thank you so much for this video! Dr. Klaper's video was the exact reason for why I have been a little hesitant to take algea oil. I would be interested to see a video on iodine. In Finland, qualified nutritionists who have specialized in vegan diets recommend a seaweed-based iodine supplement. I know you could get it by eating seaweed as a whole food, but they tend to suggest a supplement due to the fluctuating levels of iodine in different seaweeds.
I'm also interested in iodine. I've read Dr Brownstein's book 'Iodine: Why You Need It' and he shows the benefits of higher doses. Also the book 'Iodine Crisis' by Lynne Farrow. I'm cautious about eating seaweed. Instead I'm taking a few drops of liquid iodine lugol's solution. I wonder if there is any research on this.
@@TimothyJones01 Good points! I just realized that I don't think nutritionists often specify whether the iodine supplement should be "artificial" or seaweed based. I think I've heard some say both would be ok.
? Just eat Japanese food. Nori used for sushi is a very good source. I've never once been worried about low iodine, but I put wakame furikake on most foods cos it's delicious. You can also get vegan vitamins with iodine in if you're worried 👍
@@TimothyJones01 " few drops of liquid iodine lugol's" ? Rather non-quantitative. how often? There are different concentrations, but a full 12% logol's has some 6500µg per drop - which is 40x the RDA of 150µg ! There are many cases where Hashimoto is triggered by Lugol's. Please stay reasonable and don't exceed upper limit of 1100µg iodine per day. No benefits are shown beyond RDA. And sudden increases by surprise can mix up the thyroid hormone system. In addition Logol's contains free iodine which is a disinfecting agent, which has adverse effects inside the body and is unreasonable / non-scientific vodoo. Logol's is a lab chemical not food or medicine.
@@xcast1 Yes, I wasn't being specific but I understand what amounts I'm trying. I didn't want to advocate for anyone else to blindly follow what I do. I recommend reading Dr Brownstein's book. He argues that the RDA of 150ug is inadequate for full body iodine function. That RDA was designed as a measure purely to be enough to prevent goiters. He explains how iodine and iodide both work throughout the body, not just in the thyroid gland. He covers the importance of getting other nutrients like the B vitamins, salt and selenium too. Thanks
Wow. Great video Mic. Thanks so much for your time and effort on this complex topic. It made me feel much better about the supplement I am taking. I remember Klaper’s video which gave me some doubt about supplementing. I appreciate your thorough research.
What are you taking?
The problem with inexpensive DHA brands (cheapest product) is that the DHA/EPA oil is poorly protected from oxidation/rancidification because of a poor quality capsule, lack quality antioxidants to prevent oxidation, bottle seal is not ideal, etc. I'm pretty sure rancid DHA is what makes fish smell like fish (partly), and also what gives people fish burps. I do not get fish burps when I take a high-quality non-rancid algae-based omega-3 supplement. Just something to look out for.
Increase of CVD in vegans occurs in vegans who eat "junk" vegan foods, i.e. foods high in sugar and saturated fats (coconut oil, palm oil). CVD is not high in vegans who consume whole food, plant based foods (no highly processed foods, low saturated fats, high in mono & polyunsaturated fats, high in fiber, etc). The studies that look at this issue compare US vegans to UK vegans. It seems that US vegans tend to adopt a vegan diet or health reasons and therefore consume a whole food, plant based vegan diet, whereas UK vegans tend to adopt a "vegan" diet for ethical/animal rights reasons and tend to eat lots of french fries, candy, etc.
I'm gonna add turmeric on flaxseeds while grounding it.
I’m rolling hard with wads of kale and a high conversion rate. Plus, I’m so smart that, even if I lost a little grey matter, it would only level the playing field. In twenty years I’ll get back to you about how the study went. I’m not a big fan of supplements, but I’m a big fan of Mic The Vegan 😊👍
Just make sure you have a source for B12.
I love you, Mike! Your videos are always on point.
Andd you did it! yay! Some clarity on the topic! Thanks for the heads up in insta ☺️
Thanks for this clarification on this important issue. Btw love the background music at the end!
Great video. I take a « small sploosh » (i guess about 1 tea spoon) of plant based dha/epa liquid supplement every time i have a smoothie in the morning, which is about 4 times per week (other breakfasts are typically oatmeal and fruit or peanut butter toasts).
Mic i’d love it if you could one day do a video on « losing body fat without losing muscle mass). Lots of body builder « coaches » doing vids on this and it is all meat-centric.
I am a rock climber, so i want to weight as little as possible with as less body fat as possible (while still remaining close to 20 BMI) but keeping muscle, as rock climbing is VERY intense on muscles all over the body, including core, legs, etc. Thanks for all you do.
For breakfast, I eat at tablespoon of flaxseed, a tablespoon of hemp seed, and a tablespoon of chia seed. I tend to just mix it in with oatmeal. But I also take 2 g of EPA-DHA supplements every day. I'm more concerned about brain health than I am about prostate cancer. Just my two cents!
That's too much man two tablespoons is enough
Watch on UA-cam Dr Tim Radak on essential fatty acids, do vegans require to supplement with DHA, also watch on UA-cam Brian Peskin and his interviews with Doctors. Personally I have been studying fats for almost two years and I have come to the personal conclusion that DHA supplementation is not necessary when on a well planned Plant Based Diet. I believe that this DHA thing is a complete scam and that supplementing with DHA may be very unhealthy.
@@relaxgood512 I watched The video that you recommended. While DHA supplements may not be necessary, there is medical evidence that these supplements may help regulate heart rhythms and help to prevent sudden cardiac death, especially among patients with heart disease. So, for certain people, the benefits of 2 g per day of supplements outweighs the risks.
Thanks for the upload. I take algae oil, even though I try to get plenty of omega 3s from flax seed and chia seed.
ala conversion to epa & dha from flax is not very efficient, so thats good you take algae oil :)
@@wordswitha7 Yep too many people don't seem to understand that. I keep repeating it, but it doesn't register. Maybe the "damage" by lack of DHA has been done already?
@intempify a possible explanation for meat eaters is not evidence that vegans can efficiently convert ala... 'did you watch the same video?' a bit unecessary 🙄
@intempify okay no worries & i agree more studies are needed but for now vegans should make sure to take algae supplements for epa and dha
@@wordswitha7 No, that claim is not supportable. There isn't just enough known yet. And there is a long history in the supplement industry of recommending supplement X only later to discover that there are harmful effects. At this point, all you can do (as Mic did) is weigh the pros and cons and come to a personal decision.
Although humans don't strictly need long chain omega 3s in our diet the fact that we seem to benefit from long chain omega 3s as well as iodine suggests that our ancestors probably regularly incorporated some algae into their diet(many verieties of edible algae are high in long chain omega 3s and iodine with the exact content depending on the species) and we might benefit from either supplementing these nutrients or incorporating some algae into our diet.
Summarised portion of information (note it down)
Sweet spot for EPA & DHA = 400mg to 1200mg
Turmeric increases ALA conversation rate (but tested on mice)
Is that dosage per day or week?
@@pwr1990 Day.
Are DHA supplements even necessary when eating a balanced whole foods vegan diet? If I have flaxseeds, nuts, legumes, tahini etc. on a daily basis, is that not enough for omegas and DHA?
WE DON’T KNOW
I think that depends on how much omega 6 you’re eating. If you eat 85% whole food plant based w/ minimal refined food such as oil, you may not need DHA supplements.
I think you should be just fine. 20g of ground flaxseed converted at a dismal 4% yields 192mg of DHA/EPA -- that's more than a serving of tuna
@@gao1812 I have flax, pumpkin seeds and a hemp protein power(tastes bad on its own) all in my oats
Omega 3 suplements don't work in general I took them for years not any changes to me, I hate fish it tastes and smell so bad, and I was having brain fog due DHA deficiency.
i overthink everything so unlike most people i would benefit from a bit less action in the brain anyway
Miley Cyrus said something similar and then a year later lost her mind and quit veganism in a dha deficient public tantrum. But you do you!
@@NiaLaLa_V myley cyrus is a derkhed, vegan for life
@@NiaLaLa_V The problem is most people that eat ground flax seeds everyday don't notice any difference with supplementation, i personally took DHA for 4 months, zero difference, so i finish by conclude it was useless and flax seeds were doing the job.
I don't eat flax or chia. I only use hemp seeds when I want a creamy salad dressing base. I take an algae supplement. I guess I'm low-risk for prostrate cancer. Being female also helps.
One of these vegan doctors is fiercely anti-supplement, I don't remember which, but I think I'm done with these "it might possibly" videos. I don't think the science of might or might not kill me is fun, or interesting.
Ha yeah not having a prostate helps in that area 🤗
Not having a prostate isn't an escape, it's just that no one made a study yet. For example milk causes prostate cancer but it causes breast cancer in women.
Thanks. Yes it's so tricky: when Dr. Klaper's video came out I didn't order my algal omega3 supplement which was due as my stock was nearly finished. Then some months later, after Dr. Greger and Dr. Fuhrman said they continued taking it and I thought and thought about it, finally I ordered a low dose, 300mg DHA which I take on alternate days. I'm particular about ground flaxseeds and walnuts... upsetting the body's ability to make long chain fatty acids, and that back up issue of EPA bothers me. So a low dose on alternate days... at 63 I'm way past 50 so the subject is a concerning one. Decisions, decisions. Well thanks for the video. 😊👍
I always go back to Dr. Ornish uses it with his patients and his patients reversed prostate cancer while they were on it.
500mg a day should still be fine
Great video overall, and I'm a patron, but why did you say that about B12 at the end! B12 supplementation is extremely inexpensive, there's no U shaped curve for health outcomes vs intake within the reasonable range, and it can prevent extremely dangerous acute symptoms as well as (probably) long-term stroke risk in vegans. Dr. Greger just did a whole series on this. Most people are not going to get their MMA levels checked. Take a B12 supplement and tell your subscribers to do the same, like you usually do, please!
Anecdotally, my brain is functioning better than it did when I started. Can't prove that it is that. But my executive function has improved dramatically. I was unable to function for years with my brain breakdown and I can function now. Still working on improving it but it is so much better. I had gotten years behind in work and I am almost caught up. It was scary.
@Nickie I did both at different times. Both helped. Two years into my vegan diet I still had horrible executive function. I was desperate to get anything done at work but it was so hard.
@Nickie Yeah, it can be terrifying. Seven or eight years ago I had such a bad brain break-down and I was still having hallucinations and psychotic episodes and night terrors and vision problems when I found Dr. Greger. I used to sit in the middle of the night watching his videos because of how terrified I was from the night terrors. Another woman came on the site back then and had experienced a lot of the same symptoms at menopause and she went on hormone replacement therapy and I went on Omega 3 and other things. I don't have those issues almost ever anymore except when I stop supplementing and I hate pills so that happens. Memory-wise, when I had the brain break-down I also did have such memory problems and executive function problems and I had freaky things while driving where I felt like my vision was going to stop and I couldn't tell which side of the road I was on. The other woman had the exact same thing happen. People who are young and who grew up Whole Food Plant-Based their whole lives can debate this intellectually but they may cause someone to end up with Alzheimer's or something like that and I have had such benefit with DHA that I might stand up for it too much. But people with brain problems should be doing everything possible to protect their brains. Thank you for being sweet. Wishing you healing and courage, too.
@Nickie I have gone on and off of DHA and on again and I know that it helps me with vision and brain function. I no longer have night vision problems and that is crazy unbelievable to me. I had stopped being able to drive at night. Then, stopped being able to drive at all. Then, got back to driving except at night and got pulled over twice at night with no ticket. Then, the night vision problems went away. I end up having all of these stupid arguments but in reality, I just love DHA.
Those are not the top organic amazon listings, they are the top ads. look it says sponsored.
9 Year vegan here - it is so easy to get Omega-3 by taking ~1Tbsp of ground chia & flax seed. I have been adding this to my oatmeal daily. I stopped taking the supplements over two years ago. Going for my blood test soon.
Wood love to hear about your result :)
Whats the test that specifically measures DHA in your blood? I want to take it too
Did you feel any benefice when you took DHA supplements ?
I eat 2 big tablespoon of ground flax seed each day since i started veganism 4 years ago, as this is recommended by some doctor and mic the vegan himself i tried to supplement with algae DHA for 4 months but i saw literally no difference on my skin (who was already smooth) or brain function so i assumed flax seed was already doing the job.
Thank you for your videos man. I love the way you present the information and the open minded perspective you seem to uphold. Good science has always my respect.
Great information. Thank you!
I’m sort of surprised by the conclusions Dr. Klaper came to, given his reasoning and the research presented. I guess this was a couple years ago. I wonder how he feels about it now.
I've always wondered if the body upregulates conversion from ALA in the absence of DHA. Since conversion rates seem to vary quite widely in the literature, I wonder if you go vegan your body might boost from 2% conversion to 10%... in this scenario taking an exogenous DHA supplement would downregulate conversion and youd ultimately be reliant on the supplement. This is just my theory. My husband is allergic to fish and so did not ingest DHA growing up apart from *very* occasional non-sentient bi-valves. He seems fine so far! Very scientific, I know ;)
I think it's true. The body does a similar thing with 'anti-nutrients' such as phytic acid. Vegans are exposed to more phytic acid, so the gut adapts by producing an enzyme called phytase to suppress the effects. Pretty interesting stuff.
Just love your stuff... brilliant and honest.
Great info! Thank you :)
@Negan The Vegan 😂
Oh, cool, I just started taking those.
Same! :)
Taking what, DHA?, cos they are like all the other Vegan nutrient myths such as Protein, Calcium, Iron etc, totally unnecessary. Only B12 is necessary.
@@Kiyarose3999 vitamin d is actually really important too for vegans, been vegan for several years and inconsistently supplemented with it and my levels kept falling until I became deficient for a while until I started supplementing more frequently
Mike with the late night uploads
Mike with the awkward laugh when talking about some people not being open to changing their mind when new information is created or reaches them. I think cognitive dissonance on the heart disease reversal might have hit him at that point.
LOL Mic. the UA-camr vs. DOCTOR Klaper
Did anyone note the Dr Ornish trials with prostate cancer stalling and significantly slowing with flax seed?
I will always take vegan DHA! Thank you so much for all you do
Its ineffective.
Vegan DHA is extracted from algae by hexane, a harmful petroleum-derived solvent
I looked it up and some brands said they make hexane free algae oil.
This was some A+ research! Great job presenting and analyzing the pros and cons. I’m going to keep taking mine.
Btw, I noticed I’m getting a ton of manganese in my plant-based diet. I’d love to see a video on any risks of getting too much.
Apparently it is hard to overdose as you need to exceed 50 mg. Symptoms are neurological disorders with symptoms similar to Parkinson's from chronic manganese poisoning.
You should make a video of “my favorite vegan books”
I was eating around 1-3 ounce of ground flax/chia per day I was getting horrible constipation and also got floaters in my eyes and a skin rash. My cells felt overly permeable to the point of barely not having a cell wall at all. So I think walnuts and hempseed or canola oil is a better option than flax and chia. Seems like we not meant to eat the tasteless mucusy gel stuffs
I like your high-standards, Mike!
Same .
Problem with stored lipids "PUFAS" oxidize quickly and at varying Temps, so if you would animal sources would be eat the fish or from the root source would be algea.
This is all so confusing! On the back of research, I started taking algal oil... Cue horrible depression and period pain. A lot of women take evening primrose oil for that, which as I understand is mostly omega 6. So... I feel best on flax and chia seeds in my breakfast daily, and one capsule of evening primrose oil, using little to no oil in cooking (as in, frying in water, adding a couple drops of chilli sesame oil to food). Very confusing to know what's best to do, but if I don't feel great then even if I'm "technically" healthier then what's the point?
Go to the doctor and get your omega 3 levels checked. A lot of people are very bad converts. You could be a good converter and not need any supplementation or your Omega 3 levels could be dangerously low without supplementation (dangerously low predisposes you to neurological disorders and alzheimers).
Hey mic, love your videos! I been going through the rabbit hole on this whole DHA thing and theres a video from vegsource saying that the study that gregeer uses as his basis for recommending DHA supplements is flawed with various things like a small group of test subjects, they were allowed to smoke and other stuff. Can talk about it please?
ua-cam.com/video/c8_kTtWUnf8/v-deo.html
Here is the link to the video. Please respond because it seemed pretty compelling at convincing people not to take DHA supplemention
Good Karma flax milk seems to deliver a lot of Omega 3 so I keep the algae oil caps in the fridge for those weeks the store runs out of flax milk, which is rare. Walnuts go great with that as well.
@Mic the Vegan, You should put a warning on this video, multiple people on amazon have said that "Our Daily Vites" omega 3 supplement (that you displayed in this video) might actually be fish oil! (which would explain why it has such high omega 3 content and the low price).
Hello Mic! Can you pretty please do an updated SuperMeat video? They have supposedly succeeded in creating lab grown meat and are now selling it. Just curious if they lived up to the ethical standards they initially set.
I don't like eating flax or chia seeds so I take an algae DHA supplement (250mg) but only every other day. I haven't noticed any difference since I started taking it, but I do it as insurance against brain shrinkage. When I get older I think I'll take it everyday. I wish there was a food source of high ALA that I like that won't give me cystic acne. The acne went away when I started eating low fat. I do like and eat a lot of seaweed, but I'm not sure if they have any DHA in good amount.
The mid-life trial was strange in that they only did neuroimaging on a subset of the people. I say it because males and postmenopausal women don't always convert well is what I read because of estrogen. The study had more females and the females were likely pre-menopausal, so it matters which ones brains were examined.
Thank you for doing a video on this
Dr Neil Barnard has also mentioned this on the Rich Roll podcast - regarding vegan AND non vegan SUPPLEMENTATION
He suggested getting tested before supplementing. WHat do you think?
Interestingly, most vegan supplements that I just checked contain sunflower oil. I only found one that doesn't and that one doesn't list separate DHA/EPA content, only total.
How about just eating whole food seaweed? All these supplements just feel like reverse engineering.
right?
This video by chance came few hours after I commented this post quoted below *) on yesterdays Gregers Q & A Video :-) Considering your video and sources, I still don't change my (negative) opinion on DHA/EPA supplements - even when supposedly "low" dosed (see below what is low). There are many studies on brain and DHA supplements. And only that 1 small Witte study with error bar near effect size (+ that new weak 2019 semi result) opposed to majority of failure studies. The Witte study has many flaws not mentioned in your vid:
Those old overweight women consume sunflower oil in Berlin - I watch and know the habits there. ~ 1:1 canola : sunflower oil in shops. Only the elderly still buy the sunflower. They get quite no canola or flax, and likely have essential ALA deficiency as it was before year 2000 in general population. The placebo delivered extra sunflower oil (!) without Vitamin E, while the DHA group got E in addition!? 2.2g DHA+EPA is a massive blood thiner and those atherosclerotic old women of course get better blood supply in their clogged up brains - which might deliverer all kinds of phantastic results, unlikely having to do with the DHA molecules magic specific properties. Yet those old clogged up women should better get harmless blood thinners like ASS (when benefits outweight the blood thinning risks) and a (semi-)vegan plague reversal diet.
At the beginning of Gregers video with the Witte study a diagram shows that as opposoed to Gregers stated "correlation", there is quite no correlation between blood DHA and brain cell DHA - except perhaps for that lowest data point which may result from extreme ALA deficiency (watch the y axis cutoff).
Liver DHA production plus brain DHA uptake and self-synthesis are both highly regulated, and its proven that intake of "little" DHA quickly downregulates liver production to almost zero. Also EPA blood levels natually are very low (in vegans and non-fish omnivores without hyperphysiological overflow by food or supplement), while DHA is comparatively high but not so high that it raises this silly combined Omega3-Index beyond 4.4%. So the body doesn't want all that excess super rancid LCO3 crap in the body. It quickly burns it with high priority with a little carefully regulated exception for DHA.
Those older CVS / mortality benefits of LCO3 have been discarded by the 2018 Cochrane etc - and likely existed in the past before 2000 because of non-existent canola and flax seed consumption in general population, and in short term controlled studies. The PMID 17955332 shows how ALA / canola appearance rapidly and precisely cut down heart disease mortality - and made subsequent LCO3 studies fail. Similarly the Lyon Diet Heart study. 2g ALA /day vs no-ALA was and is extremely effective and necessary and was shown in Chochranes, and sweeps / saturates the questionable LCO3 benefits - without the adverse effects:
The bigest RCT with ALA __and__ DHA/EPA and placebo (and ALA+LCO3) was the Alpha Omega Trial PMID 20929341: It showed that DHA/EPA alone (see extra Figure in the authors response letter #1 - scroll down on nejm dot org page) turned things adverse beyond 24 months (!) - as it was shown in the , DHA/EPA was worthless in addition to ALA. And in the Appendix Table 3 shows again, as a secondary RCT result (!) some factor 2 significant increase of incident prostate cancer (!) , besides gastrointestinal problems (when both DHA/EPA groups are combined). After just 40 months, which is very very short for cancer! And the dose 400 mg DHA+EPA was very low regarding common habits and your standard - while newer science (Domenichiello) shows brain needs of just about 3mg/day DHA - which is easily produced in the liver. There are just about 5000mg DHA total in the brain.
Zhang 2014 PMID 24568238 Review on 19 RCTs also shows: EPA&DHA near-significantly causes cancer after few years. And so does VITAL RCT 2018 PMID 30415637.
So even with that supposely low doses there is likely a factor 10 overestimate of real internal DHA needs and a lot of dangers. Why should so much super rancids, highly unsaturated molecules cylce in the blood? Even excess ALA is quickly removed from the blood. But for DHA and EPA the clearance is about 24x slower (because the regulation mechanism is evolutionary focused on production not clearance there by exception)
I could write more for my reasons, but it would become too long. Maybe more later. Overall the reasoning network which you present in this vid doesn't show settled proves, cherry picks for preoccupied assumptions only certain (old/short) studies which don't collide. Benefits masquerade is likely caused by false pre year 2000 ALA deficiency (which is still there in old people because of their outdated diet habits), and by blood thinning "pseudo medication" confounding via risky LCO3 overflow.
=> 2.0g+ ALA. Best no DHA supplement, no fish, never super rancid DHA fortified foods (quick peroxidation). If you still fear you liver DHA production collapsed (which is by far not a widely known metabolic disease/disorder) , then max 50mg DHA+EPA per day (12mg DHA completely replaces natural liver production). If your arteries are clogged up, BMI and blood pressure high etc., then use less harmfull blood thinners like ASS, and switch for a healthy reversal diet.
*) My comment on Gregers Q&A Video (TfvEO8xyD-s) : "17 : 02 Top 5 or 6 supplements : he mentioned B12, D3, DHA, turmeric, amla, nigella.
1 + 2 👍. DHA doesn't show benefits when controlled for 2g+ ALA in the diet and when sick atherosclerotic people at the verge of needing blood thinning medication use another less harmful blood thiner like ASS. The DHA rant is a comedy of cause and effect errors in that regard. On the other side DHA intake shows cancer risk increase even with that supposedly low dose, immunosuppression, adverse blood thining / increased bleeding, increase of cardiovascular risks longterm, LDL increase. The body needs only some 3mg DHA / day in the brain and the liver easily produces an excess 12mg+, in a well regulated steady manner.
In most regions outside US a selenium supplement is critical. And iodine almost everywhere - in addition to iodized salt, when there is not a reliable source from special foods like see weeds / algae (where contents vary) - and that is the case for most vegans and vegetarians. "
Thanks so much for all the effort.
I'm young, but I've been taking about 900mg algae omega 3s (including 500mg DHA, and 250mg EPA) for 2 years. I exercise a lot and I've found that it helps with joint and muscle issues I've had, I think because it is anti inflammatory. Wondering if that has anything to do with the brain stuff too... 🤔
Were you eating ground flax seed or chia seed everyday ? I eat them everyday but as it is recommanded to supplement in DHA as we don't know yet if ALA is enough, i supplemented for 4 months and i saw literally no difference.
@@KayleJudicator I eat some chia and flax but not in any kind of planned way.
@@krjohnson29 So you think you were eating some how many time a week ? Chia and flax's omega 3 are not absorbed if you don't ground them or chew them intensively.
@@KayleJudicator Right, yeah I usually use flax in baking. I grind it up first of course. And chia seeds in smoothies and pudding.
Hard to say exactly how much I was having per week. But I've gone through several bags of flax and chia seeds (over a fairly long period of time, though, maybe 5 or six years). It varies from week to week but I would say maybe a teaspoon per week? Many weeks would have more, but also many with none at all.
@@KayleJudicator Just remembered, maybe I should add that I do have a handful of walnuts on my oatmeal everyday for what it is worth. 🤷
Can I not just take chlorella and spirulina?
I'd rather just eat more whole foods
i don’t think chlorella and spirulina are dha/epa rich algae. And even if, how much u wanna eat of those?
@@StephyGrowsWeed so I did a little research and if you eat 30 grams of Chlorella vulgaris, you get 1000mg of Omega 3.
Since only 0.3% of Chorella's omega-3 is made of DHA, you only get about 3mg of preformed DHA.
So unfortunately neither Chlorella nor Spirulina seem to be reliable sources of DHA.
I'm curious what species of commercial microalgae are used to make the vegan DHA suppliments.
Does anyone know?
Just in case you think endorsements don't work-- I bought 3 bottles of the DHA you mentioned. The affordability argument based on taking smaller dosages was what convinced me. I've actually wanted to take DHA for 10 years but never did because of the cost. These 3 bottles for 58 dollars total could last me a year by doing a smaller dosage. That's 5 dollars per month (you said 4 dollars but there were shipping costs even though I decreased even that by buying 3 bottles). I'm over 60 years old.
I don't think he's worried about whether endorsements work; he's worried about what they might do to his neutrality. Endorsing products and making money from that would open him to accusations of commercial bias, weakening his perceived credibility. I could also subconsciously bias his recommendations, creating the temptation to exaggerate or skew his advice according to what might make him more money.
@@fearofaveganplanet8513 I don't worry if someone is promoting a product. If they are a consumer of supplements, they might be more concerned about the quality and third party verification of the products they represent.
@@SunFellow941 You might not worry, but plenty of people are eager to find fault with him and find a reason to dismiss his ideas. Mic is an important resource in the vegan community and I think it's important that he remains neutral, especially commercially.
Did you feel any benefice, i didn't feel any benefice while supplementing with algae DHA for 4 months, i used to eat flax seed every single day, so i suppose flax seeds does the job.
@@KayleJudicator A follow up: I started taking DHA because of this video. A few months later I broke out in the shingles and chickenpox simultaneously! This usually happens when your immune system is weak, but my doctor couldn't find a reason why my immune system should be weak. Six weeks later I was listening to a lecture by Dr. John McDougall and he said that omega 3's could make your immune system weak (an immunosuppressant), which is why he didn't recommend supplements or oils rich in omega 3s. I was shocked! So I quit taking it and just eat walnuts instead.
Dr fuhrman's argument in favor of his Dha supplements is that his ate packed in glass and not rancid. I have tried the cheap stuff on amazon but not sure I'm getting the quality. What kind do you take? Also it is very important for my mental stability- noticed I've been slightly more depressed with the cheap stuff. Absorption problem?
Love it when you quote epidemiological research if it suits you but not when it doesn’t. Come on man, be consistent
thank you so much for your work.
This is what bothers me about the vegan movement sometimes. Some of these people are so afraid of their food or so afraid of their supplements. Like the ones who tell you not to eat nuts because they're high in fat. It's time to relax, eat food, enjoy it, and be grateful that animals aren't suffering in order to make it possible.
Yes, and then just take it in stride when you croak from the vegan diet.
@@gardenofeels6872 what makes you think that?
@@Derizo Years of experience and study. Veganism cannot sustain health in the long term in the majority of cases. A few people can do it, but they are in the vast minority.
Hey Mic, I would definitely not mind you putting affiliate links in your description for products you yourself would use.
I just bought omega supplements and would definitely have used your link if i knew there was one :)
I think he wants to avoid doing that to keep his neutrality. If he did that kind of thing, he could be open to accusations of commercial bias in his recommendations, but also it could subconsciously bias what he recommends.
@@fearofaveganplanet8513 I totally agree, it is quite a noble thing of him not to capitalize on us though! :D
Same conclusion here! I'll continue to take my Omega-3 algae oil capsule every day. It provides me with 250 mg DHA and 125 mg EPA, and I'm good. Also my Omega3:6 ratio is 1:4, which is near perfect.
Shawn Baker is built different
He’s a beast!
Yeah red and puffy.
I did not take it for over a year after 4 years vegan. Certainly nothing that seems to offer short term effects to someone eating flax, hemp and other nuts/seeds daily. But figured it be cool to have a brain if my heart keeps pumping to 90, so grabbed a bottle a week ago and will keep taking it now that it’s half the price for twice the potency as a couple years back
I think I consume far too much Omega 6 vs Omega 3, roughly 16:1 perhaps, from all the nuts, peanut butter, oils etc. Since the ratio needs to be 1:1 and Omega 6 has an inflammatory response, while Omega 3 has an anti-inflammatory response, I don't think taking maybe 200-400 DHA just as a safe measure has any risks that outweigh the benefits.
Could you do a video solely on breast cancer/other cancers and how a vegan diet can affect them? I’m trying to get my parents to go vegan
So I eat 4 tbs of flax a day on top of a high omega 3 diet (bananas, broccoli, etc). No supplements. I get between 200-400% omega 3 a day. No pills. Think im doing okay. My doc forgot to do my blood dha upon request last year so this year will be interesting..
the conversion rate of Omega3 (ALA) into DHA and EPA is kinds lowish though. Check that out maybe.
„In healthy young women, approximately 21% of dietary ALA was converted to EPA and 9% was converted to DHA....“ some sources state much lower rates though
@@StephyGrowsWeed yes but keep in mind there was a study that found if your body is low in DHA it will convert more to get it. So if you have an excess of ALA im sure it can go higher to DHA
9:45 wait, "a lot of fish basically have no dha in them"? please explain...
Should I take this supplement or not....
Holding the position that processed oil is bad, while promoting algae oil is hypocritical. We need to seek out a whole food algal source of DHA
Here's my question, what about south pacific islanders who for centuries relied on fish as a staple like hawaiians, Samoans, and Tongans. They got tons of DHA and Were their men falling over dead from prostate cancer or did they life long healthy lifes??
I say take your algae based DHA people and let common sense be your guide.
Michael, the article links are all truncated in the Notes. Is there any chance of correcting them?
Mic that's a lot of talk on Flax and Linseed; I eat 30g of walnuts a day for my ALA needs. Is there any research that points to walnuts being inferior?
I've wondered about that. Walnuts seem to be the best and have other excellent micronutrients. I think ? there is an avoidance of recommending walnuts due to the fat content/how easy it is to over eat them.
@Amanda Glover Flaxseeds are a better source of omega 3 than walnuts due their more favorable omega 3 to 6 ratio, that is 1:4 for flax and 4:1 for walnuts - that means, flaxs are 16 times better than walnuts
@@babyelian77 I stand corrected. 🙃
@@babyelian77
According to Chronometer;
Flax 30g: 6.8g omega 3, 1.8g omega 6
Walnut 30g: 2.7g omega 3, 11.4g omega 6
Checks out, thanks for the tip! Walnuts are where I get all of my fats though, I'd be scared to go to flax as I'd be getting barely any fat! Might enable me to get some almonds in to bolster my protein and calcium.
@@Pepperoni Indeed, it makes no sense to eat walnuts (besides the taste...) only to get omega 3 - interesting enough flax has about 120 calories less than walnuts per 100 grams. Chia seeds are rather a good source of omega 3, almost as good as flax with a ratio omega 3 to 6 ~ 3
(unlike a ratio of ~ 4 for flaxs)
I often wonder whether omega 3 supplementation is beneficial to omnivores simply because it repairs the damage done by the inflammatory omega 6 and 9 that are so abundant in their diet. If I'm on a diet low in omega 6 and 9, then do I really need that much omega 3?
What makes the omnivore diet higher in omega 6 and 9 than vegan diets?
Vegans have a higher intake of omega 6 than most omnivores do.
@@gardenofeels6872 That's what i thought too.
@@gardenofeels6872 you put your two brain cells together and thought sunflower oil is vegan so vegans must have higher omega 6 diets 😂. Nonsense the standard vegan diet is way healthier than SAD
@@King_Kenlee She (?) said omnivore diet, not SAD diet. The two aren't one and the same, you know. Nor did she say that either of the two was healthier than the standard vegan diet. And you talk about her two brain cells??
Oops, I just had a look at my supplement nad it says to only use 1/2 teaspoon, meanwhile I've been filling up 1 normal spoon (about 3 teaspoons, I think) for 2 years 😅 Maybe it's time to cut down a little...
My main concern with the algae supplements is that it's so difficult to find ones without carrageenan that are affordable
I’m not sure what you consider affordable, but I just found an algae supplement on Amazon w/o carrageenan. The brand is Sports Research and it was around $20 for a month supply
@@NoBigDill69 its about $30 with shipping though. Thanks for the suggestion
carrageenan not a big deal according to Dr. Greger its in small amount so you should not cut off healthy essential DHA
i also bite it (and spit out the pill layer ) cause if i remember DHA is better absorbed in the mouth than low down the pipe
source : Live Q&A with Dr. Greger of NutritionFacts.org on June 27th at 1 pm ET. ua-cam.com/video/bQ68libFqwI/v-deo.html
Is Carrageenan Safe? ua-cam.com/video/w8zoPKID_eM/v-deo.html
@@wellthi I already have a bowel condition, so I'm especially worried about carrageenan. I did order some dha supplements though, and it's unclear whether or not they contain it. Ill look into the biting thing, that sounds like it might be a good idea
Mic I remember in one of your earlier videos you mentioned that some people (certain communities) can convert ALA to DHA better than others? Is this right?
So, as a vegan's, should we be supplementing with Algae DHA and EPA? Is there a definitive answer?
I drink flax milk every day, but you're saying that by supplementing dha and epa, that ala won't convert, then what's the point of taking flax and chia then.