Tactics Ogre (SNES/PSX/Saturn) Tier List
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2021
- A more subdued review of the classic Tactics Ogre from way backe in ye olden timese.
Thank You to the Tactics Ogre fan site for still existing after all this time, and shockingly being the only one with a complete...almost...sprite sheet for this thing. luct.tacticsogre.com/academy.html - Ігри
My hot takes:
Certain classes are better to "be" than to "level up" in, and other classes are better to "level" than to "be", which modifies my tier list. Let me tell you what I mean: Since any class can use any weapon in this version, (some cannot attack twice) there are benefits to training/leveling up as certain classes and then switching to be in a different "skin" for real battles. Give you an example:
If I wanted my Witch to be really decent, I'd train her to have very high dexterity, because that allows her status spells to hit. For her, having a high INT is meaningless because she doesn't do damage with her spells, and certain spells just have an effect, rather than deal damage or require a percent chance of hitting using Dex. So for her, it's useful to train her up as an Archer. It's the female class with the highest Dex gains, is pretty tanky, gives more HP per level, and so forth. Then switch the Archer into a Witch, and she can still use a bow just like an Archer, she has more hit points and better vitality, she can use all her witch spells just as easily or even better than a Witch-trained Witch. What she might have is fewer MP than a Witch trained witch, but that can be fixed by picking up Magic cards, straight boosting her MP that way. You can also dual train if the MP is that important.
Archer can never cast spells, so the Archer is great for leveling, but isn't the best "skin" for the character when using for real. A witch can do everything an archer can do, but can also cast support/status spells. So if you ignore the level up bonuses, a Witch is the exact same thing as an Archer, but can petrify, stun, Quick, Teleport, Jump, Slow, Charge, Paradigm, Clear. She only misses out on being a decent HealRain user because that does use the INT stat I believe. And because she leveled up as an Archer she is one of the most agile/dextrous characters in the game in terms of speed and avoiding/blocking melee attacks. Also, her bow shots are going to hit. If you really wanted to, Archers are decent with strength as well, you can give her a freaking melee weapon and have her go to town. It's kinda sick.
Likewise, the Sword Master has the support/status spells for the male classes, and has the best DEX growth. So if you want a male caster who hits with all status effect/support spells, skin them as a Sword Master. If you want that same caster to hit like a truck with their weapons, grow them as a class with high strength and dex. If you want that caster to be an evasion tank, grow them as a class with high agility and dex. So you will have tanky status/support casters who deal truckloads of damage, or you can have a ninja that casts support spells and status spells better than a Witch can, either way, the Swords Master is the skin to use over either chassis that you level up with. Knights are good for leveling STR, DEX, and HP, so they're great to level offense, while Beast Tamers are good for leveling STR, VIT, and HP for damage tanking. Ninjas are good for leveling DEX and AGI for evasion tanking. All Sword Master skinned characters can attack twice with two swords, like a Ninja.
You can't train a dragoon up to be a sword master because dragoon is neutral and sword master is lawful, but leveling dragoons boosts DEX and STR and HP very high. Turn this character into a Ninja and it can attack twice with insane STR and DEX, hitting both times. So a Ninja skin over a Dragoon trained character is a Dragoon with double attack and more spells.
Further, a Ninja can use literally every spell a Wizard can. So train a character as a Wizard for the INT growth, and then turn the Wizard into a Ninja for the added mobility, ability to walk on water, and ability to strike twice with a melee weapon. If you use cards to boost this character's strength and dex, it's quite powerful.
Some classes can't change class, like Canopus or the Hawk Men or the Skeleton and Ghosts.
Use these classes as the base, and then build on top of them with cards. Ghosts can hit as powerfully with magic as any other Wizard as long as you boost their mental stats. They can be tanky with armor, you can also boost their VIT and HP stats. Keep them away from exorcisms and with the right cards and equipment they're flying, warping, and reviving and using magic as powerfully as anyone else, or being flying archers with crazy stats. A Skeleton is a great melee fighter, a Ghost is a great magic user / tank in armor for some reason, and Hawk Men can be crazy good archers or melee fighters or both, with cards.
But you need fancy equipment to make normal humans fly, and they need spells to be revived. So it's harder to get the same effects as hawkmen or undead until you have the right equipment and spells.
Basically, you want to turn all flying classes into top tier melee/archer fighters, you want to turn all support/status classes into martial classes that can fire a bow or swing a hammer or sword, and you want certain damaging casters to be put into the skin of a Ninja so they are more mobile.
Now, the Priest(ess) which can cast HealAll, Vitalize, and Revivify, those spells don't really require high INT. It's only the heal and heal+ spells that require high INT. So give her the Life Staff, HealAll, Vitalize, and Revivify, and she doesn't need INT. That means, guess what, we can raise her up as an Archer/Valkyrie/DragonTamer or whatever we need so that she's got high VIT, Agi, Dex, and is a tanky, tanky beast. The object here is to make it so she never dies, since she cannot revive herself...
Swords Masters for support/status spells, Ninjas that are actually wizards for damaging spells, Witches that are actually archers for support/status, Valkyrie/Archers to turn into a Priestess, and finally, since Exorcism is a Dex spell... we train out Exorcist as a Swords Master or Ninja and for Dex, and as a Beast Tamer or Knight to boost their Dex, STR, and Vitality. Now your Exorcist is wiping out ghosts but also hitting like a truck with a weapon, and hitting accurately, and dodging hits like a ninja. They don't really need INT unless you really want to hit with Lightbow or Heal that badly. And if you did, Swordmaster has only slightly less INT growth. So train as Exorcist/Swordmaster for a healer/lightbow Exorcist.
Training Classes:
Ninja for Agility, Dex, HP
Beast Tamer for HP, STR, VIT
Knight for HP, STR, DEX
Wizard for INT, MEN, MP
Dragoon for STR, DEX, HP
Sword Master for DEX, AGI, MEN, INT
Archer for AGI, DEX, HP, VIT, MEN
Cleric for INT (not as good as Siren) MEN, MP
Valkyrie for HP, STR, INT (not as good as Siren)
Siren for INT, MP, Men
Dragon Tamer for HP, STR, Men, DEX
Skin:
Ninja for casting damaging spells, using 2 attacks, agility, walk on water
Sword Master for casting support/status spells, using 2 attacks
Exorcist for using Exorcism/healing/lightbow/starion
Priestess for using Revivify/HealAll + (life staff)
Warlock for Dragon magic and support/status
Winged Units for flying archer or melee
Skeletons for reviving archer or melee
Ghosts for reviving tank/wizard
Gorgon for obvious reasons.
Lizardmen or Orcs for tanky frontline mooks.
Never use as a skin, ever:
There are better classes to be during a battle than these due to their limited abilities or movement-
Soldier, Amazon, Archer, Beast Tamer (unless you really want to boost a beast?) Knight, Berserker, Wizard
This requires some mircomanagement, to avoid leveling in battle. But even if you kill someone a level above you, it's like 80 experience points. Just manage to level up as the training class during the next real/training battle, while near the leveling up point.
Beasts, Dragons, Golems, etc are all hot garbage to be auctioned off.
How many levels you must get befero change classes?
The tl;dr - level up everyone as a ninja (women as archer or valk depending on alignment), then flip to whatever class you want them as.
SNES/PSX/Saturn version of this game made minmaxing AGI/DEX extremely powerful, since anything that didn't have 100% hit chance could easily be negated by stacking those 2 stats and LUK.
It's basically Dragonball logic. What's the point of buffboi SSJ2 if you can't land a hit? And what's the point of a frontline unit that has a lot of VIT but does no damage because he can't land a hit? Magician type classes move at a snail's pace, too, so it's not worth leveling as them for the INT. The minmax'd way to play is to level everyone for AGI/DEX, then take everything down with physical (melee or bow) weapons and status effects.
thank you!!!
A fun video, obviously full of opinions but that's part of the fun!
Berserkers are a flat upgrade to the generic fighters. They get a bump in most stat growth as they level, particularily strength. Beastmasters are on par with berserkers, where the berserker gets more defenses, the beastmaster gets extra vitality and buffs your large size beasts.
Canopus might as well be S tier. In the original version, if you pick up a luck card and get him to 57 right off the bat, you can pick up every good treasure from the starting line, on top of his excellent stats and highest mobility.
Archers are amazing, but can be not so useful if they are behind a level to the enemy, and disgraceful if they get more then that. On the flip side, they hit like a truck from 3/4 the way across the map if they are even or above a level to the enemy and have elevation.
Cleric would be outclassed entirely by others except for Heal+.
Dragons are mighty, all types. Stun is the most useful. Equip them with 4 of their elemental orbs to magnify their strengths, reduce their weakness, and reduce weight by 40! Tough SoB's that can give better then they get, but are hampered by mobility a bit. Of the 4 elements you get early, fire is probably the least useful but still a total tank and a half.
Knights are D tier. they barely get anything stat wise over a regular fighter. Leveling character as a Knight means you left a bunch of stats on the table for basically no benefit. i would rank them E tier but thats where sword master comes in and knights at least have them beat. Sword masters have ninja defenses without the dodging to make up for it.
You are wrong about ghosts. Skeletons? If you want a frontline fighter to take hits why not a fat dragon that can put down a pounding too. Ghosts are at least B tier but more likely A tier if you use their strengths to any effect.
Hawkmen are weaksauce. C tier, their defense is too low and they don't get to dodge things like Ninjas to make up for it. They can make good archers on certain maps. I use them early and then replace them in the ranks.
Valkyie is D tier, not bad per se but outclassed by more specialized types.
I think you are harsh on wizards too, although they need to be leveled as a wizard for most of their levels to gain superior INT to make the elemental spells really hurt.
My preferred group for most of the game is main char, Canopus, a cleric with Heal+, Usually another healer(typically exorcist because you get one early, but cleric/priestess is fine too) Wizard, 2 archers(maybe one is a hawkman early) 2 dragons, and the last slot depends on the mission, usually a front liner- early a berserker or beastman and later a dragoon. If the mission favors archers I might bring a ninja. If your army is similar level to the enemy, this will get you at least through chapter 3.
Towards the end of the game, leveling certain classes for significant levels opens a few interesting options, ninjas can dodge things like you wouldn't believe if you train many levels for them as an example. In almost every case, specialist classes with heavy bias in one or two stats for growth tend to turn out to be very strong in a particular role compared to more rounded classes. Sometimes adding a few levels of a different class can bring a particular stat up to make a unique feeling character. Example: i trained many levels of ninja and then made a beastman with a whip. he had excellent accuray and was hard to hit, and had the 2 panel attack bonus making him quite durable in battle, though he did not hit quite as hard as others i had trained as full frontline classes throughout. That's part of what makes this game fun, IMO.
I find Knights get *some* bite to their offense that even Valkyries don't. Once they become survivable. Still less important than Berserker (if you didn't get so many Knight and Knightlike characters joining you, maybe). Berserker has two niche use over Beastmaster. Chaotic Denim can level up as Berserker and still have enough MP to cast spells as a Wizard. And their Mentality powers up more of the secret special skills--but once you commit to that Knight gets good with Dex-based special skills.
I think Valkyries do well in DIFFICULT fights where Knights get cut to shreds, Berserkers/Terror Knights get status-locked, and Wizards get poked full of holes but Valks can get many hits in with long-range hit-and-run tactics without being instant-killed.
you're missing another S tier: haborym with petrify, his dexterity makes it a 100% hit against almost any enemy.
True, I thought I mentioned him?
SNES: Hobyrim with Petrifog = ACTIVATED EASY MODE
Very true. It's hilarious to have magic that scales with Dex of all things.
For anyone that is interested in this franchise, the channel Coffee Potato is reporting news about Tactics Ogre Reborn as well as several analysis on the classes and other very interesting stuff!
I think ghosts are S tier easily: teleports, cannot die and acts like a magnet for enemy arrows and what not, not to mention their abnormally high defense - just give them 2 shields and watch the enemy struggle. Also, Pain spell is extremely powerful on them. Skeletons on the other hand are trash. Also, It's not fair to put wizards so low, they have decent growth and can use summon magic - they are nearly as strong as sirens. Canopus is an S tier :P.
Fair. I have no argument for that. 😂
I agree. Ghost taking potshots on top of buildings or taking the hit has saved my fodder guys' lives thousands of times. However, respect to CP for having a strategy of using disposable frontliners.
I disagree with Wizards being almost as good as Sirens, Sirens totally outclass them.
Wizards are fine earlier on.
Buuuut Liches are better and can also use Witch spells.
Warlocks can be nice as well and especially when Dragon Magic comes into the picture. Surprisingly great defense so can be used as Warrior-Mages.
And then generic female offense spell casters are straight up better off made into Liches when possible since they can’t ever use Dragon Magic anyway.
Also to note Ninjas can use Summon spells too.
Healers are more usefull here as if you want to heal, you have to equip the item itself, you can't access it from inventory like it is psp version. Not to mention that the item range always 1 range.
Fair, but avoiding the need to heal altogether is often the name of the game. Their numbers are still pretty dinky. Personally, I like using HealRain over a cleric until Resurrection comes around.
@@CoffeePotato Healrain is nice buut it costs too much MP to be used primarily. Costs more than Heal+
It’s fantastic as a secondary healing thing though. Even for anyone who isn’t a Water element.
Others have mentioned the problems with this tier list-- Wizards should not be that low. Their growths are not as good as Sirens, but they still fulfill the same function in that they can equip summons.
Ghosts are also too low as someone mentioned, as are clerics. Personally, I prefer Clerics over Priests as they can equip Heal+, but Priests cannot. Moreover, if you miss Revivify drop in your playthrough, you pretty much have no use for a Priest. Still, a Priest has Heal All, which can be invaluable when you're trying to keep a stupid NPC alive.
Witches are also too low. Yes, a straight Witch build can be best used as a non-DEX support, with HealRain (still not as effective as Heal+ or efficient), Slow (only affliction that will affect bosses, so you can treasure hunt or farm EXP before killing the boss), Quick, etc. Witches trained as Archers (I usually train one as 2 levels Archer, 1 level Witch) are what one should be using as a DEX stat support (Stun, Petrify, Charm, etc). You can have one with the max AOE much sooner than when you'd get Haborym (don't have to go through headache of saving him either). They're sturdier than the average spell caster (by virtue of having partial Archer stats) AND has the distinction of being the only mage with FAST mobility (i.e ascend 2 levels, descend 3 levels), which can work wonders in maps where height isn't in your favour. Yes, they eventually get outclassed by Sirens but still very fun to use with the right set up in the early-mid game.
Also to note Princess Kachua/Catuia has some solid physical combat stat growth too. Not so much defense though.
She was kinda intended to be a Magic-Knight with all her artwork depicting her wielding a sword.
But I like giving her a Bow and light weight gear.
I don’t quite like how they did her spell list for Princess in the psp version lol. Hoping it gets a spell list buff in Reborn.
I don’t see why they didn’t just design her Princess Class to be more like how they redesigned Denim/Denam’s Lord class but with more emphasis on Int, MP, and using Magic.
Dark Priest and Priest coulda been given slightly more to set them apart if when you want to play her more specialized.
Like say access to all Dark Spells and Necromancy for Dark Priest.
Glad to see another fan of the Bow Wizard approach!
An Eskeleton with a Ogre armor set and Black shield is beaultiful to see.
Basicaly immune to anything other than a Faerie Holy Bolt.
in Chinese i never sew such interesting topic，youtober is very useful that i can find so much people love this game talk about this game
Glad to entertain, thank you for the kind words!
For this tier list, we should probably discuss straight raised classes, meaning that we assume that the unit was in it either from the start or raised in the most similar class by stat growth, for example soldier -> beast tamer -> terror knight, or soldier -> knight -> dragoon. In that sense, warlock and witch are extremely poor classes, as they aren't even getting the stats they need to fulfill their role, terror knight can't hit the broad side of an elephant and so on.
By the way, that little gremlin in E tier has the highest attack growth after dragoon, double the agility of one and it flies, they're the best attackers you can get your hands on bar none and effectively the top archers in the game.
Wait, they are? Huh, I have to try them out again. Admittedly I usually just do a straight Permadeath run ever few months, so I do tend to miss a lot of stuff for this one. But gremlins, though, huh..
Having played the game recently I pretty distinctly disagree. I ran a Soldier -> Berserker -> Terror Knight and he's one of the best members of my team. His damage is fantastic and he's one of the few units who at all resembles a tank. I've never found accuracy to be an issue, either, usually hitting for 60-70% from the front.
@@nathanbateman4255 I would assume they were a high Vit/Agi roll, and that's what I love about this game. Absolutely everything has an exception, even the Archers can be hard countered by some doofus with a fan if they get close enough. Good TKs are rare, but so fun to use when they happen.
@@CoffeePotato Oh yeah, I'm really enjoying it! It's got a sort of whimsical approach to its design that you don't really find in modern games. Magic in particular actually feels magical, as if the developers didn't think at all about balance and instead simply thought about how they could best represent the feeling of powerful magic. It's a lot of fun!
@@nathanbateman4255 It really is
And the good ol Canopus with a Bow combo. Being a flier he can easily get to higher elevations and snipe people. Some maps are really great for this too lol.
I would recommend Giving An actual Archer a wing ring or wing boots or warp boots as well. So damn good lol.
Really nice that in Psp and I’m pretty sure Reborn he can straight up take the Archer class too.
I'm surprised to see white knights so low. They're bulky frontline fighters with good movement range, high damage, extremely high speed, and they come with unique weapons that are good for the entire game.
I only played the PS1 version, and i know how challenging it is to use the white knights. Looking cool and all, but they just do not have the strength of the dark knights, which is sad, no magic even.
With holy knight Lance not even having a special killer skill and only 5 move, unlike others with 6 move i think. I do not get how he was able to take the eye of Lance Tartare.
Despite how hard it is to use white knights, it just feels epic for me to be using those that look cool, or have great parts in the story. It gets me to be more immersed with the game. And how they display their sword before slashing. I love the challenge anyway, using all the leading characters of the game, displaying the true meaning of being willing to die for one another.
I just gamesharked the Lord class to just feel more the position of Denim's true power as how he's a brother to a woman who happens to be the destined ruler of all lands.
Denim deserves to be played as Lord almost in the middle of the story, or at least when he has started wearing armor as his appearance. It should be given even if Kachua does not die.
How badly i wanted holy knight lance to be played in the 1st version though.
Now i just do not have the time to play the latest version.
as someone who is unlucky for not having a PsP or Switch ever and can only taste LUCT in PS1, i second you...
back in the day, i just love the White Knights (Mildain and Guildus) since they are storyline-related characters with cool stance before sword-slashing the opponents. but hey, its just the thing that we need i guess...
no need to bring OP own-trained characters because it will ruin the game... 😊 better take it casually and enjoy the ups and downs!
I'm curious how much this changes with the new release since there are tons of changes to mechanics.
I'm just now noticing that you haven't done a Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber tier list (unless I'm missing it?)
I'm playing it again for the first time in something like 20 years, so I'm curious to see what your takes are.
So...I did, but It's not great. Actually a few folks better at OB64 offered up a bunch of corrections in the comments, but I've exclusively played 64 doing weird challenge runs. It's an odd one. In fact, I had to make a different video that also covered relationships in the series, and several notable situations from 64 had to be included.
ua-cam.com/video/l2iAY-54Qdo/v-deo.html
That other thing, #2 in particular, and I know I managed to somehow mix up Hugo and Warren in one of them, but you know what I mean: ua-cam.com/video/wxpwMnvj8LA/v-deo.html
Looked up when you mentioned in the video as watching on Xbox the White Knight does not have magic in this version.
Still one I was looking forward to as I do play the PS1 version from time to time.
It's definitely worth trying. It doesn't have the longevity of the remake, it's slower, but there's still a ton of atmosphere here.
@@CoffeePotato got to say I love/hate the perma death of units love because makes me care more not to be risky, hate because crits are so much fun to suddenly kill someone.
@@jima.3478 Crits and Arycelle. Bosses are a bit over the top in a lot of cases. I'm sure more than one person has had that horrifying moment when they send their trained soldier with a sword to attack Orba, only to have him take 1 or no damage, and counter with an instant kill using his walking stick.
do you have a tactics ogre game you recommend srpg fans start with? i've played + loved FFT/TA/TA2 + Fell Seal so i'm familiar, but haven;t dabbled much in TO
So I normally recommend two things, since the Ogre series all have unique mechanics.
1- if you can deal with some old timey jank, I recommend the first two Tactics Ogre games. Now...Knight of Lodis is the best balanced, but it's on the GBA. I personally find it charming as hell, plus it's the most consistent in the series. Some folks write it off at the first fight, but it's seriously a great entry point. Solid balance, great visuals (even if low fps), self contained story, and the Emblem system is the best promotion system I've ever seen in anything.
Now...the original SNES/PS1/Saturn TO has some of the best atmosphere in the series. That said, expect some SNES era stuff, like not committing to mechanics (looking at you, 50% to knock back shield bashes), and random difficulty spikes. More than one new player has given up when the first wizard they find insta murders their soldier with a counter attack stick bash. The balance gets better, but it's got that old jank. You Caaaaan recruit everything, though, so there's a ton of creative options to rebuild your squad.
2- One Vision. So the PSP TO is astounding, but hold crap it's overwhelming. I mean I've played it for about a decade and still find new tricks every time. That said, I hated it at first. The One Vision mod is a rare case of a mod being by far a better introduction to how the game actually works. (I've recently done an Appreciating the Details of TO series going over how they...tried...to explain the mechanics, but there was just too much).
@@CoffeePotato I'm not too familiar with getting mods to work so I think I will start with KoL first + go from there 😅 I'll let you know my thoughts!
Archers have the same defenses as Knights (although I wouldn't call Knights durable either), only slightly less HP, and dodgier.
Clerics are the only generic class that even gets Heal Plus. The only thing Priests can do that Clerics can't are Lightbow and Revivify.
Dragon Tamer as a level up class??? Their defense growth is horrific.
Trying to rate stuff for this one is odd, just due to the way it all shakes out in the end. I feel like defense hardly gets to play a factor by the end, since alpha striking with orbs and petrification or make nuking take the place of many of the more traditional roles by that point. Light bow tends to be handy, even if it's kinda basic. Revivify destresses pretty much every fight in POTD.
@@CoffeePotato Hmm, the enemy's offense really hurts in a lot of battles. Put a lot of defensive units in and you're using Heal Plus. Sneak over with Wizards and Ninjas and you're charging up Revivify? Personally I use Quick Spam over Orb spam.
Dragon Tamer is a good alternative to Valkyrie if you want a Female sword user. But they definitely need training in other classes for that Vitality for sure.
Priest (or technically Priestess) should be A or maybe even S tier if you ask me.
The only playable class other than Princess Kachua that can use Revivify which is a spell that really makes a difference with how out of whack the game difficulty balancing can be lol.
Though it’s pretty criminal they can’t use Heal+ lol. They should have just let Priest use any divine spells.
Gremlin E Tier ? Why ? Highest Dex in the game Highest Long Range Attack With Lowest WT and can 100% Charm/Petrified/Drain Hp Skill and Floating + Flying
Small correction lans h is in more than one fight and while his stats are less than tartares hes above White Knights when gamesharked. Also he can use divine magic.
Woulda been nice if he was obtainable legitimately. Or at the least if you could give Denam/Denim and maybe other characters his Paladin class.
Thank goodness for CODA content in the Psp and Reborn versions.
Interesting how you put the ghost down so low. I think in a later video, you seemed a lot more positive about them.
Or maybe that just goes to show how even weak units can still fill their a niche really well.
Currently going through a playthrough, and while my ghost isnt gonna win any MVP awards. They make for a great initiator. Basically draw all fire to them, buying the rest of my units enough time to finish off the enemy melee fighters and possibly even a few overextending archers, before any harm is done to them. But I assume this tactic will not work forever. On the bright side it helps that AI seems to be drawn to targetting ghosts, wasting several turns bringing them down, only for them to resurrect.
A Generic Soldier and Amazon beats Lans, Holy Knight ?
U are serious ?
Amazon jumps in the water, oo-ooinyah! Soldier can use items!
Of course. You can actually use the Soldier and Amazon for the 600+ battles before getting Lans for the last 5. That's a great feature.
Well Lans isn’t playable in non psp/Reborn versions anyway. But he would be excellent if he was recruitable.
@@Gamerdude535 what a coincidence ..
I just discovered the reborn version yesterday in steam and now you are talking about it.
it will be available this November 2022. All TO fans must buy ~ LOL
Lord in S Tier? Ehhh idk about that in Snes/Ps1/Saturn.
It’s a great class for Denim/Denam but it’s not quite worth Kachua/Catuia dying and you missing out on her Princess class in these versions.
Now Liches have one thing that hurts. Is not being able to use Dragon Magic.
I think there’s just no reason they shouldn’t have been allowed Dragon Magic since they’re otherwise the Ultimate generic spell caster class and permanently locked into that class once you make them.
Making any generic Female magic users that are used to kill extensively into Liches is a straight up upgrade though since none of their classes can use Dragon Magic anyway.
Though funny how female Liches don’t have a different sprite in these versions lol. For the one dang class both Males and Females share in non-psp/Reborn versions.
Liches with that surprising amount of defense could possibly be used as a Warrior-Mage with some effort.
Their Strength and Vitality would likely need catching up with cards and food based on how you would train most Liches.
Vice/Vyce should be Higher up than that.
Recruiting him in Law route he’s a fighter with great physical stat gains all around that can cast some attack spells and dual wield. More defense than a Ninja as well Iirc.
He can’t use Summons but is overall like a better Ninja.
True, but he also folds to a slight breeze, that's my only issue with him. Fortify fixes this, but still. Also guy's a dick in 2/3 routes, doesn't help his case. Funny neutral stuff, though. Definitely gets points for throwing a guy off the roof.
@@CoffeePotato Psp version changes up his Ranger class quite a bit.
So it doesn’t get magic in psp and possibly the upcoming Reborn version but he can still potentially Dual Wield. One other character in the game can access Ranger as well.
It’s also the only other class besides Archers and Lord Denam that can wield two-handed Bows. Interestingly can also use two handed fusils
Like a Hybrid of Archer and Ninja with a better equipment selection aside from not having one-handed katanas and having no magic.
@@Gamerdude535 Right, I like him as a third longbow archer for the team. While dual is nice, his defense makes the wizard look like a beefcake.
@@CoffeePotato A neat skill concept I woulda liked for Ranger is a passive that lets them treat two handed ranged weapons as if they were one-handed.
So they could have a sword or dagger etc etc with them.
Or maybe even a free action thing that lets him switch weapons in battle. So Vyce or Azelstan could be used similarly to how Rangers in D&D are commonly played. Dual Wield+Ranged Weapon.
But on the other hand that would sort of invalidate Buccaneer One Handed Melee+One Handed Fusil builds too lol.
@@Gamerdude535 That would have been pretty neat, like a Monkey Grip 1.5, or the XCOM LW pocket pistol.
got 999 defense and 999 magic defense on 34 ghost using 2 shields
When you become so ethereal that you manifest physically into a solid wall. Why pass through what you can become?
Not sure I would rate Lizardmen that High. They’re better earlier on but fall off later.
Earth Denim with Maximized Agi Via Goddess choices maximizing Agi gain each level up and getting him to Ninja Classe as soon as possible before turning him to a warlock after getting Max level and Agi maximized (since only Agi can be increased via level up) let's him have more turns especially since you will equip him light armor. If done right he can basically solo a full level 50 enemy party in Hell gate and will probably always get the 1st turn with mp at x but if he equips a robe that doubles MP gain and the charge spell with petrify he can easily pertify all enemies and with Mute Dragon Magic can easily stun all enemie on his 2nd turn if none is immune to stun. Here is my Denam Solo Beating 3 Max level 50 parties in Hell Gate Floor 98-100 as proof even a full Zombie Party ua-cam.com/video/irCXv9xqq-8/v-deo.html.
Can Terror Knights use magic in the old version?
Nope, but the Lament of the Dead effect was constant, and their stats were way better. New version's trickier.
no, man
Not sure It’s worth using Forbidden magic/Apocrypha in Snes/Ps1/Saturn. Or at least I never liked using them myself.
Sure they target all enemies like Dragon magic but except for the caster damage your own characters too.
How can you judge something you haven't played?
How so? I've played it quite a bit, just not as much as some of the rest of the series.
link please? i want to play it on my pc please? :((
i miss playing tactics ogre
You mean for a ROM? I can't post one directly, but if you know how to emulate on PC, you can Google Tactics Ogre ROM SNES or PSX.
@@CoffeePotato what is rom?
@@bhoklibuit1717 It's what you call the file that you open with the emulator.
Need to download first the emulator then?
@@bhoklibuit1717 yes. Either epsxe or snes9x would work best, then just Google for the rom, load it from the emulator, and you're golden.
Interesting to note about Warlock is that like the Lich their physical defense modifier is surprisingly good for a magic user
You can make a Warrior-Mage out of a Warlock pretty effectively. On top of them being able to attack every enemy on the Map with Dragon Magic.
Kind of a precursor to the fact they got Swords as a favored weapon in Knight of Lodis, straight up being a Spellsword-like class. though they didn’t put Dragon Magic in that game sadly.
Archers and Canopus on A tier, while White Knights on B tier lmao
I wish Denam/lord had this outfit instead looks cooler
Which one?
@@CoffeePotato the brown/green sprite you used here looks better than the white/blue used in-game
I rather like his chapter four appearance with the armor and blue headband myself.
@@Gamerdude535 It certainly works as an upgrade.
What !?! Sword master is on A while ninja is on B ? As far i remember sword master is the worst class in this game.
I like them, support with double hits can be pretty strong when stacking elements, and swords have some of the easiest to get elemental options.
I remember spells being accurate on DEX, so Hobyrim as a Swordmaster could cast Petrify at 100% hit rate every time, which made him a broken unit in my army.
@@Yanninho78 Yup, he was so broken that they even referenced this as a finisher in the remake.
Are you sure you aren't accidentally thinking about the remake?
@@cruelcumber5317 They were unequivocally the worse in the remake, while ninjas were the most busted. Granted, in the original, any class could wind up as anything depending on your training.
Should't have snes in the title if your knowledge is from the Ps version.
They're identical. MOTBQ had several changes, the only thing they changed for PS1 was language and a couple of inputs.
@@CoffeePotato Thank you aha :)
ANd shadow versiom all class,the doplegangers,way too stronger.
Lancelot is D tier? Lmfao do you play the game?
Sure did. If you can get him, you don't need him. Funnily enough he didn't even crack anyone's list for the Multiplayer tests.
It's cute you deem the game worthy of a tier list. It's too easy to need one, no?
knights are F
They've got some application, but they're definitely pretty iffy.
Nah. Their HP, strength and dexterity growth is pretty solid.
Though they should have been given more vitality growth and defense than they did.