Mr. Bagwill, having viewed hundreds of people performing this task you are the first that performs it very well. The rest need to follow you, thank you very much.
Hi Justin - it is still the method I use, and in fact I'm finishing a granadillo/WRC guitar as we speak. I'll be using 3-4 coats; that gives sufficient protection while producing a rich-looking finish.
Thank you for sharing that super helpful information. I wish I had seen this before I began. I’m using TO on a harp, and the laminate soundboard is very smooth, and is giving me runs. I want to clean those up before I begin again with your method. What do you reccomend for cleaning up runs? And do you have a video on using those white 3m pads in between layers? I didn’t notice any difference to my TO after using the white pads.
Thanks for this Dave. I'm late to the demo but it sure does help with understanding Tru-Oil. Love the stuff. Thanks also for the "Acoustic Guitar Construction" forum for reference. Great resource.
@@deadedith I had a couple of questions about softer luster final appearance & pore filling via wet sanding with the T.O. but found your answers to that on the AGC forum, & didn't want to have you repeat yourself. Thanks again for that resource. This T.O. process seems to have a pretty brutal learning curve & how VERY important the preliminary sanding prep is. I tried your method on a headstock refinish. I prefer a softer luster on ebony cap. The high gloss lacquer looks to much like something other than wood. The real advantage IMO, to T.O. is allowing the natural character of the specific wood to predominate. I also wondered if you feel it necessary to wool between all coats . I worry about removing what I've accomplished with the previous coat. It's pretty thin. Perhaps once a day to start is enough to level / rough after it cures overnight. Is it OK to apply a couple coats of the hard carnauba wax to prevent wear on the T.O.? Thanks my friend.
@@blairswanson44 Hi Blair. It's actually a quick process to learn, practicing on some scrap is the golden path to understanding. I have used carnauba wax on the headstock; I would be willing to use it on a guitar body that I'm building for myself but would be a little unsure of selling an instrument with the body waxed.
@@deadedith I recall reading that TO thin film coats don't "melt" into each other as do lacquer coats. Please help me understand. When I use white scotch pad to achieve satin finish, I'm assuming that it's safest to work on a CURED (1 week) finish so as to not remove any of that final (just dried) coat. I have had good results with doing satin from gloss on cured lacquer but if TO is basically NOT an accumulated "thicker" coat (melted as above), I'd like to understand more about that. Thank you so much for your time & consideration David.
@@blairswanson44 Thanks Blair for reinforcing that point! A week or two of curing is definitely important for those that wish to 'work' the finish to a degree of gloss or shine. I do know of people that cure a month or more and I think they have some justification for that though I haven't gone to that extent.
Hi Dave. Im replying regarding to your reply on my previous comment, where you wrote that its nescesary to clean up TO in between layers, and that youve used mineral spirits and scotch brite to wipe with, and that the layers should form uniforn dull surfaces. i didnt sand in between all layers. I hope it’s not too late to fix that. It has been shiny in between layers, and i do see streaks. i can sand with the maroon scotch brite to remove streaks, but im concerned thats too harsh of a grit. . What grit should I sand in between layers? I’ve been using the white scotch Brite, which I think is supposed to be equivelant to 0000 steel whool,, but i don’t see it visually doing much. I do feel the finish become smoother after using the white scotch Brite but I don’t see much difference in the sheen. I have a maroon scotch Brite which I see a big difference in, but I think that’s equal to a 350grit paper. Should I wet sand with mineral spirits or only use afterwards to clean up? Thanks for all the guidance. 🙏
Wow I'm so glad I found this. I've been applying tru oil following other people's methods for the past week on my first build. I couldn't get it to look even on the spruce top for the life of me until I saw this video. Thanks for posting!
Hi Dave.....thanks a ton for your video. My son and I are building our first guitar together. Of all the videos and research we've been done on this project, YOUR video has been the "secret" we needed. Thanks so much! Bart
Thanks for the great video. I am on coat number 3 of applying a Tru-Oil finish on an 84 Squire Bullet SSS, made in Japan. I was leaving a very thin coat on to dry... 0000 steel wool in between coats and was applying by bear hand. I have very small streaks and was wondering how to do the very last coat, (I plan on 10 or so to get a glossy glaze.) Thanks to you, I now have my answer! This body had been sloppily repainted and it took hours of sanding. I was elated to see some really great figure in the wood and went with a dye instead of paint and it is looking so good and like you said the tactile feel is great. I really like using Tru-Oil thank you for teaching others how to get, dare I say, flawless results.
As an oil painter I know that any oil-based medium that cures in 3 hours has LOTS of additives (e.g. driers, wax, varnish, etc.). That might turn out fine but I tend to opt for a more time-tested traditional route (4-6 weeks). I learned this from my Grandfather and recently saw some furniture that I had restored in high school, 45 YEARS AGO! It looked perfect. No modern product (urethane spar varnish, etc.,) has ever stood up for more than 5 years. But we Americans are an impatient lot!
David, Thank you for your quick reply, and I haven't even gotten out the door yet. I started out wanting to use Tru-Oil, but I could not find any. Then last night I found out on "You-Tube that Tru-Oil was for gun stocks, so therefore I checked with "Bass Pro" here in Council Bluffs Iowa and they do have it, so here I go after it. Thank you again for a job well done. Earl
Dear Dave,thank you very much for your useful tips!!!I'm a newbie greek luthier making the traditional Lyra instrument of Crete.I have already purchased the Tru oil(I thought it would be a nice alternative way to polish,though I consider shellac the best lustre),Tru oil seems to be a similar and very good stuff to work with,Im excited by its result,as I have already applied a couple of coats in the Lyra I'm working with at the moment!!!...
That's a good insight, thanks. TO finishes do hold up well, being designed first of all for heavily used pistol stock finishing, so I don't have any big worries about that - but 45 years, that's incredible! And I applaud the patience of traditional finishers and painters, craftsmen of all stripes could learn a whole lot from them. Thanks again!
Hi Earl - yes I just used the seal coat on a student's guitar and it works very nicely. I wiped on a thin coat of seal, let it dry, then used steel wool to take all the seal off; then looked for any open pores, found some, and did a second coat of the seal - it dries quickly, couple hours at the most. Then wooled off the shellac once again, leaving a surface with a nice sheen . Then sanded with 600 and 800 and started with the TO application.
Nice! Might give it a try in a few days on the new build. Any cons to applying true oil on the soundboard, at least sound wise when compared to maybe laquer or a french polish finish? Thanks for the vid!
Great looking guitar! Thank you for making this, really goes to show thin coats are best. I just didn't realize you could go THIS thin with tru oil and still have it work. So far I'm loving tru oil MUCH more than a poly coat, or even danish oil, I never did like poly for even heavily used furniture.
Mr Dave hello again!!thanks for responding to me,I really appreciate it!!!...your tips looked familiar to me..I was in to take this action and I think I have achieved it in a desirable level at least!!..In fact I used the combination of tru oil and shellac together and I confess that Im very pleased!!!...Thank you very much again and keep up the good work!!!Greetings from Crete-Greece!!!..:))...P.S :I have uploaded a pic of my work..that would be my profile's pic.
Hi Dave, great informative video. i wonder if you might be able to answer a couple of questions i have regarding finishing. The guitar i am finishing is similar in color to the center portion of the guitar in your video, but i wish to achieve a much darker finish, similar to the outer portions of your guitar. is there i stain i could use prior to using TO to achieve this, and still keep the grain visible? kind regards, Adrian
DTM1864 - I use TO as the sealer for the wood as well, the very thin coats do a perfectly fine job of sealing. I would just simple shellac in the pockets.
I'm building an electric guitar and planning to use a Tru Oil as a finish. I've already bought a bottle of it, but have never use it before. So, this tutorial is so helpful to me. I would only like to ask how many coats of Tru Oil it takes to get a glass like finish? Thanks
Thank you, I'm pleased that my low-tech method helped you. I'm interested in how you used the shellac with the tru-oil. I would like to try that out - can you share your method? And a picture of your work? Thanks David Medford, Oregon
Good Morning David, from Earl. I would like to ask one more question please, about using Tru-Oil. My Baritone Ukulele has a ring of white binding surrounding the sound hole, will it hurt the binding to apply Tru-Oil on top of it? I am willing to use painters tape to mask it off. David, thank You for all of your help, Earl.
Hello Simcha _ I hope I have your name right! I use mineral spirits to clean up TO. In my first attempts I had to remove the TO completely and start anew, but in short order learned to apply it in very thin coats - 2 to 4 per day depending on dryness - using, usually, a blue, paper shop cloth, folded into a pad. Be sure that the TO coat is dry before you put on a new coat! I notice a few internet sites referring to the TO application on musical instruments; you might want to check them out as well. Good luck. Dave.
Hey Dave. Thanks for the reply. Yup u got my name right. It means Joy in Hebrew. How do you reccomend cleaning the tru oil streaks? Should I wet sand with a maroon 3m scotch Brite? What’s a good way to make sure I’m putting the layers on thin enough? I only got streaking on the soundboard which is a laminate wood, I think it was too smooth so the oil didn’t absorb as well. I will use the method in this video of wiping up excess oil for my future attempts
@@TzufFamilyBand Yep you should clean up TO; it does not form one homogeneous layer. That's a reason for thin coats, btw. I have used mineral spirits to clean, oil-free steel wool or scotch brite to wipe with. You want the TO layers to look right when you let them dry, no streaks or runs; sand them lightly after they are dry to give a uniform dull surface - not shiny! - until the last coat.
Hmmm. I hope it’s not too late to fix that. It has been shiny in between layers. What grit should I sand in between layers? I’ve been using the white scotch Brite, which I think is supposed to be equivelant to 0000 steel whool,, but i don’t see it visually doing much. I do feel the finish become smoother after using the white scotch Brite but I don’t see much difference in the sheen. I have a maroon scotch Brite which I see a big difference in, but I think that’s equal to a 350grit paper. Should I wet sand with mineral spirits or only use afterwards to clean up? Thanks for all the guidance. 🙏
Hi David, and I like your video about Tru-Oil. In the comments you talked about using Zinsser Seal Coat. Did you use this Zinsser Seal Coat on an acoustic guitar? I have never refinished an acoustic instrument before. However, I am now redoing a "Weiss Ukulele" that now has good sound and I want to keep it that way. I am now going out to get Tru-Oil & this Zinsser Seal Coat, but I won't use this seal coat until you get a chance to reply. Thank You Earl and keep up your good work.
I've not tried any finish on fretboards; that being said, TO is used on gunstocks so for protection and smoothness I would think it would work fine on uke necks. Make sure they are not too rough - sand with 600 grit or so just to make sure before applying the oil.
Gr8 video, thank you! Q: I have some ukuleles with a smooth finish on ebony fretboard, and most have a regular, slightly rough, fretboard. On the unfinished ones, could I use Tru-oil to add sheen and protection from finger sweat and grime? This is particularly poignant on light colored, maple fretboards. Thoughts? Thx.
Are you wiping all coats off in this way from the ground up. Or are you applying wet coats for a few days in the beginning and sanding back to get it level? Thanks!
Hiya - it depends what I'm going for; an open-pore satin finish, a pore-filled satin or the whole enchilada - porefilled high gloss. All are possible. Which one are you contemplating?
@@deadedith well, I’m not sure. I do like high gloss, but also think I “might” prefer a satin/semi gloss on this but I don’t know. It’s a solid body electric I made and stained and dyed black. It is a closed pore wood. I love the look in videos of the thin true oil satin finish where things start out by sanding an oil/wood slurry and they seem to get an excellent satin semi gloss without any rub out after final coats. That is not really an option since this piece needed to be stained. I’ve been wiping on 2 thin coats a day, and sanding…it’s starting to get closer to being level. In my experience rubbing back with 2,000 or 4,000grit or steel wool for a satin doesn’t work as well over black as it usually looks a bit dull and scratchy. I’m wondering if after getting level I could try your wipe off technique for a “off the rag” final finish without need for rubbing it out with anything. While I guess I could try and build up more and do a full buff for gloss, I’m skeptical. It would be my luck to spend all that build up time, then cure time, and I would still burn through buffing it. Thanks for response, I’ve spent countless hours researching this and just don’t have enough hands on experience to know. Also first time with tru oil.
Hi David. I have a question that I wonder if you can help me. I had a knock on my NitroCellulose finish. Sand and wetsand the spot to level it but the move went all the way through the fiinish and got the wood in that spot. My question is: All the guitar is Nitro, and i cant get Nitrocellulose in Portugal What if I sand the top and aply tru-oil..., do you think it is ok??? Do you think theres any harm for the top? thank you
My first thought would be to try a bottle of the spray-on tru-oil. It goes on thin and you would not have to wipe it off. If I can think of anything else I'll get back to you. If you do try it, please let me know how it worked out for you. Dave
This guitar had no pore filler, as an experiment. I turned out nice, but not as nice as a pore filled guitar. Normally I will mix the TO with a little thinner and pour some on the surface and sand it to create a slurry that will sand into the pores. Takes a couple of applications. I just bought some of the B-C filler to try out. Let me know if you try it, I will post my results here.
Hi David, how do you go about doing the top, seeing that you are attaching the neck after the finishing process. Do you mask off the fretboard and bridge area? Thanks in advance.
Hi Jim - One of two ways. I very lightly trace the outline of the bridge onto the top, then trace the outline of the bridge onto a couple of strips of tape and put that bridge-shaped tape on the top and then apply finish. Or - and I think this gives better results - I go ahead and finish the top first, then, after it is good and dry, I'll trace the outline of the bridge onto thick paper, cut the shape of the bridge out of the paper, and use the remaining paper with the bridge shape cut out of it, by taping it to the top so that the bridge-shaped hole is in the correct position. Then leaving the taped down paper in place, carefully sand the TO off the top in the bridge location using the paper. I hope that is clearer than mud! If not let me know.
@@deadedith It is way clearer than mud! Thanks. If you are familiar with John Hall, I followed his method on my last build and it worked out very well. Very similar to your second suggestion but using a Dremel to remove the finish rather than sandpaper. Thanks again.
Hi - good to hear from you. I have been using TO on the top as well; I tried something new on this last guitar, and using a very inexpensive aerosol spray outfit ($10) and some Sealcoat shellac right out of the bottle, I sprayed a few coats on the top, let it sit for a few days, then rubbed it out a bit. It looks very nice. The vid is on my channel.
After tru oil had dried before using shellac I did wet sanding using soft papergrids (600 to 1200) and final steel whool..then after I applied shellac and it perfectly came to fit giving a nice film on my piece of work!!!..:))...
Deadedith, is there anything on the surface of the guitar under the True Oil, or did you apply the True Oil to bare wood? Also, would you recommend applying True Oil to bolt on guitar neck pockets which generally remain bare? I was considering using True Oil on bolt on neck pockets for moisture protection.
hello, how would you recommend applying tru-oil to very small objects? im having difficulty avoiding smudges holding pieces with odd shapes kind regards andy
I found an old gooey bottle of this stuff in the basement and hit a gunstock with it on a whim I thought it was a varnish to build up so I kept applying coats (quickly, it was thick and tacky!). Over the course of prob a month of coats and fine steel wool buffing it filled the grain and polished to a crazy gloss. I'm awful at woodworking and used sticky old tru-oil, but it came out amazing, it's way forgiving. I'd never made a piece of wood look so nice, I'm doin it right with my guitar though:)
So, I'm assuming you use this as an alternative to spray lacquer, not just as a top coat? How many coats do you do? Do I need to apply grain filler over mahogany first?
Hi if you want a high gloss finish , grain fill is a necessity. The link I provided to Pettingill describes the method I use. In fact his method will get you to the high gloss you want. I don't go to high gloss, so brain filling is not a step I take. Experiment On some scrap wood to see what's best for you. Good luck. Oh - yes, I use it as an alternative to spraying lacquer. I myself am not a fan of high gloss, but that's certainly just a matter of taste. The guitar shown in my video was all tru-oil, no pore filling, and the finish is just as good today as in 2011. Gads, I cannot believe it has been that long. Dave
@@deadedith Yes, it sure is crazy how much time flies!!! I don't see the Pettingill link that you refer to? How do you think the tru-oil differs from nitro when it comes to sound???
How did it go with the pore-filling with tru-oil experiment, I wonder? Was it possible to fill the pores with enough coats of tru-oil and if so how many coats did you end up putting on?
Hi Chris - the bridge can be done at either time; my preference is to make a bridge-shaped piece of masking tape or blue tape (put the bridge on it and just trace around it) and place the tape exactly where the bridge will be glued, and put the finish around it. Or just put on the finish, then locate the exact bridge location and sand the finish off in that area. It's easy to sand, just takes a minute. I trace the bridge onto some poster paper, cut out the bridge shaped hole, sand the shape.
The gunstock method just does not work on the guitars I've built, where the thinnest of possible coats is preferable. It may work for others. Mine is only one approach, but it does work. Thanks for the comment.
Yes. You can use pretty much anything over shellac as long as it's dewaxed. You should be good to go. Just make sure that once the last coat has been applied wait 2 weeks to make sure the finish is fully cured before stringing it up
Hi Dave: Great video! I am using Shellac & the French Polishing technique on a guitar that I just finished. Can one or two light coats of Tru-Oil be used as a final application over the FP for better protection & durability? Can T-O be thinned out for easier application? If so, what would you use to thin it with? Also, how would you go about doing a final buffing on either FP or Tru-Oil? Thanks, Steve
Hi SS - I would advise against the TO on top of FP. TO can be thinned 50/50 with mineral spirits. There are online sources for buffing FP, and since I'm not that knowledgeable about FP I suggest you check them out. Here is a link to a forum I take part in; scroll down to the 'finishing' category and I'm pretty sure there is a section on FP. In fact, here it is: acousticguitarconstructionforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27
Great video David. Love the way you explained it. I had done a guitar body with tru oil but could never get rid of the streaks. Will try this method. But total how many coats do you apply? And do you thin down the last few coats? Also , the kitchen towel could be of any brand or type? or any specific requirement is there?
Although I did it the same way,some smudges have appeared on the surface of front side board.I would please like you to give me an extra hand on that!!!By the way,is the combination of shellac and tru oil appropriate??...Thank you in advance,with respect!!!...Pavlos.
Hey David,I have a new Martin that I just bought, I bought it because it's all solid & sounds fantastic, yet the top has no finish & it seems would become scuffed easily. Am I able to use just this process to coat the top for a bit of protection? I want this guitar to last.
Michael - here's an excerpt - one of many - that came up by a google search for 'how to shine up a martin matte finish' or words like that. The method I excerpted had good success for a number of people, apparently. " glossed my Martin 000-15s. I used Stew Mac swirle remover and Stew Mac preservation polish. It gave my 000 12 fret slothead Martin a soft gloss finish. This is the look I was after. My Martin now looks like it was made in 1935. You will never get a real gloss finish on a 15 series Martin. " I would not put any other finish on it, the incompatibility would no doubt ruin it. Just be careful to get a product that is silicone-free, and don't over-do it: the finish that is on there now is very thin - a good thing - but with too much zeal in the polishing, you could go through the finish. Very light touch, you don't have to do it all at once. Good luck!
Nice job and beautiful guitar btw:) It's comical how many coats I applied and buffed off later with 000 steel wool before i realized what I'd done. That killed some time but at least it filled the grain:$ Then I left it alone between coats and just kept building it. That's when i remembered the internet existed and found great info/vids like this one :D I finally ended up lettin it cure for a few months (I forgot it) before I polished it. Talk about satisfying, can't wait to do the guitar!
Pavlos - your project sounds interesting! If a smudge appears, I will first try rubbing it with a cloth or a paper towel, for a couple of minutes. If that does not work, I will rub with some very fine steel wool. I will perhaps use a few drops of mineral spirits with the paper towel or the steel wool. The tru-oil and shellac work fine together, but I only use dewaxed shellac. You are correct that using a clean paper towel is a must during the procedure. I would love to see a pic of your progress
Hi Jim - Yep I still use this method. On that guitar I think 9 coats. If you are going for high gloss, then the pores on the back and sides will have to be filled, either by further coats of TO or by some other method. On that guitar, it was simply more very light coats of TO.
@@deadedith I've got 12 coats on so far and the pores are almost filled. I didn't pore fill first though. I don't think I'll use any other finish from now on. It's so easy to apply, there is next to zero cleanup and it looks great.
...and Fanny's your aunt. I'm looking into polishing pianos, the ones I build, copies of models predating french polish (before1820), and I picture this oil, or danish oil, plus something called renaissance wax might do better for late18th century cherry or walnut pianos. How clean and regular are large surfaces, like lids, do you think, using tru oil. How much does 8 oz of tru oil cover. One guitar? Six? Thanks very much. Paul
Paul - I've not used the TO on anything larger than a guitar so I can't speak authoritatively about a larger surface. 8 oz of TO would do 4 or 5 guitars. I think the TO/Renaissance wax would make a killer finish, though. Why not try the process on a cheap board that will give you a feel for the application and whether it will meet your expectations?
I've got a Takamine EAN 10, with an unfinished cedar top. I've been thinking of applying tru oil to it with a flat finish to protect the wood. Pros can cons?
*Билли Старчер* I have a guitar Takamine GB7 with cedar top. I removed the varnish from the deck and just like you want to cover with linseed oil. Have you covered your Takamine EAN 10 with oil?
Hello - There are a lot of useful application methods. Applying the TO the way I do it does not build up a very thick finish at all. Many people wipe on/wipe off a few coats as I do, and then wipe on, let dry, wipe on. let dry and in that way build up a thicker coat, which they then let cure for at least a week and then lightly buff to the degree of shine they find acceptable. I generally do 10-12 coats with my wipe-on/wipe off method - this helps to fill the pores and gives a nice thin finish.
I don't sand any farther than 320 grit for final sanding. Anything over that I've always had adhesion problems except for watco danish oil plus anything over 320 seems to be overkill, 320 hides all scratches unless you look with magnification. Maple I've always heard to not go over 220 because it's so closed grain and needs the rougher grit for adhesion.
Yep. Not everyone will fill the pores on the neck, that is strictly a matter of taste (I don't do it myself) but yeah, tru-oil is fantastic on the neck. Sand the neck first to 320, nice and smooth, and you will be happy!
I would advise against TO over epoxy. The TO pore filler works great and helps to pop the grain, and of course is completely compaible with the TO topcoats. I do the whole instrument with TO unless someone asks for a different finish. Some people think that an oil on the soundboard will dampen the sound; actually, TO is more of a varnish, goes on very thin, and does penetrate enough to dampen sound.
To all - I have been experimenting and now have changed my procedure somewhat, with better results. I first sand to 150, then apply (brush or rag) a good coat of Zinsser Seal Coat, let it dry, then rub it off with 0000 steel wool, leaving the shellac in the pores only. It may necessitate a second coat, then more rubbing - just fill the pores. Then sand thru the grits as high as you like - I go to at least 800. Then for application I use...
Beautiful finish. I've used TO on one instrument so far, and am totally converted to using it. One thing I'd like to know, however, is what you pore fill with. Would you think it okay to use an epoxy filler such as Z-Poxy?
Hi Jim - if I remember correctly, Birchwood-Casey techs suggested that I NOT put the TO over epoxy. You might want to drop them a line and ask - they are very good about answering. When you get an answer maybe you could post it here for the good of the realm? customerservice@birchwoodcasey.com I use thin shellac as a pore filler.
David Bagwill Jim - I found some old notes in a file just now - the suggested action is to apply a coat of clear shellac over the zpoxy before applying the TO. There is no evidence that there is a TO-Zpoxy adhesion problem, but there is concern, thus the shellac suggestion. Hope that helps. I think the Zpoxy-TO would be a killer combination.
Hi - TO goes on so thin that the consensus is it does affect tone at all. I cannot hear any differences with other finishes I have tried. OTOH, those classical players make a good case for French polishing the top. My feeling is : if people cannot hear the difference, there is no difference. Keep in touch! Dave
I think any stain would be suitable. It's always best to test a sample on the same type of wood you will be building with. Perhaps a side by side test on some scrap - just TO on one, stain plus TO on the other. That means an extra day for the test, but as a reward you will know for sure what it will look like. Good lluck!
I want to stand at your crusal point where you say: "are you removing the oil (that is on the instrument) with the paper towel or are you removing the oil (that is on the instrument)with the oil (that is on the paper towel)???"...What I get by your description is that we have to use clear paper towel all the time,so that no smudge would appear on the surface.....
(continued) ..a wad of cheesecloth inside a square piece of microfiber cloth - miracle maid or something of that sort that has no fuzz or lint - wrap it around the cheesecloth into a ball the size of a golf ball and twist the top and tie in place. Put a little TO on the ball and lay the oil on with the grain in long even strokes. Maybe I'll shoot another vid to show you what I mean if there is enough interest shown. It works GREAT.
Apply a couple of wipe on coats of Tru Oil or Danish Oil. Keep it extremely thin. Allow to dry thoroughly. That darkens the wood and brings out the grain. French Polish (or brush Shellac) on top of that. It's the very similar to the French method of F.Polishing and nicer than F,Polishing alone IMO. Alternately just stay with the Oil! I much prefer the dull sheen you get form wipe on Oil (no grits or polishing compounds) rather than the wood wrapped in glossy plastic look. Less work too :-)
First, the best thing is to begin with the wood color that you want to end with and skip the staining all-together. That being said, if you are referring to staining the wood on the back and sides, then staining is the first thing to do, and it can be done successfully if you follow some guidelines: first and foremost, always always always practice on scrap material of the same kind you are building with. Google min-wax and follow their instructions. I may post a tutorial on staining soon.
Tru-oil is nothing more then Stand oil with Stoddard solvent (mineral spirits). What's Stand oil? Stand oil is linseed oil set in a vacuum and heated to approximately 500°+ for an extended period of time. It's thick, more clear and dries unlike any other linseed product - it doesn't yellow with age. It’s not to be confused with any other linseed products like raw or boiled linseed oil. It's been used by artists for years and is available online or at good art supply stores, I’m an art conservator and I've been using it for years - it's less expensive then Tru-oil. Unfortunately, so many people have been snowed by big companies and their "proprietary formulas." Look it up.
You don't have to! You can put three coats on a day, and the next morning sand lightly with mineral spirits and do more coats. I have good luck doing it the way I do, and it works, but it's always worth experimenting. Try googling "Tom Pettingill tr-oil" and you will find a wealth of information. He gets some killer finishes with the TO.
interesting. I've never seen anyone wipe off tru-oil. On my gun stocks i put about 20 coats on, and it looks like the wood is under glass. If it works this way, don't stop I suppose
The glass finish is more of a technique than a number of coats. Please read this thread and see if it helps you. FWIW, I use 10-12 coats. Go to: the gear page.net, thread number 711780
Beautiful work David! I am doing my first guitar build (vintage Les Paul), and I am planning to do a stained finish (this one to be precice ua-cam.com/video/zkVQZmApubQ/v-deo.html). Would you happen to know if the TO changes the colors a lot? I know they darken, and get more depth, but I don't want any tint from the oil. Also, for how long should the TO be allowed to cure in between each coat? Thanks for a great video!
+Martin Engdahl Hello Martin! Thanks for commenting. TO will darken light wood noticeably - for instance, I often use curly maple for the bindings, and if I want to keep them pristine in color I will apply a wash coat of shellac to them and then use pinstriping tape to cover them while I do the TO thing. However, since I don't like bright white binding, I go ahead and TO the bindings as well and to my eye they look better. TO does have a slight tinting effect. My advice is to ALWAYS try any new method on some scrap material of the same sort you are concerned about. It is really worth an extra few hours or a day to test something on scrap rather than on your build. Depending on humidity, the TO can take from 1-2 hours or so to dry between coats. A little 220 sandpaper will tell you if it is dry enough to recoat - if the 220 makes some dust, you're good to go; if the finish balls up on the 220, give it a bit more time. There's no hurry.
Yep, tape it off. Also, you might want to dilute the Zinsser about 1/2 and 1/2 with mineral spirits before wiping it on - for no other reason than it will save you some time when you are rubbing it off with the steel wool.
Mr David,nothing special on this ocassion..I just simply followed your steps with tru oil..letting the instrument to dry well,after that I used my smoothiest shellac the most dissolved one with more alcohol...I considered tru oil as a more coarse lustre,kinda it would help fill the wood,although it gives a good gloss by its own!!In combination with my smooth shellac...
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Mr. Bagwill, having viewed hundreds of people performing this task you are the first that performs it very well. The rest need to follow you, thank you very much.
I've seen so many videos on this, and this method seems like the best one I've seen
Hi Justin - it is still the method I use, and in fact I'm finishing a granadillo/WRC guitar as we speak. I'll be using 3-4 coats; that gives sufficient protection while producing a rich-looking finish.
Thank you for sharing that super helpful information.
I wish I had seen this before I began.
I’m using TO on a harp, and the laminate soundboard is very smooth, and is giving me runs.
I want to clean those up before I begin again with your method.
What do you reccomend for cleaning up runs?
And do you have a video on using those white 3m pads in between layers?
I didn’t notice any difference to my TO after using the white pads.
Thanks for this Dave. I'm late to the demo but it sure does help with understanding Tru-Oil. Love the stuff. Thanks also for the "Acoustic Guitar Construction" forum for reference. Great resource.
Hi Blair! I was replying to your earlier email and my computer decided to die. I have resurrected it. I thought you had a couple of questions?
@@deadedith I had a couple of questions about softer luster final appearance & pore filling via wet sanding with the T.O. but found your answers to that on the AGC forum, & didn't want to have you repeat yourself. Thanks again for that resource. This T.O. process seems to have a pretty brutal learning curve & how VERY important the preliminary sanding prep is. I tried your method on a headstock refinish. I prefer a softer luster on ebony cap. The high gloss lacquer looks to much like something other than wood. The real advantage IMO, to T.O. is allowing the natural character of the specific wood to predominate. I also wondered if you feel it necessary to wool between all coats . I worry about removing what I've accomplished with the previous coat. It's pretty thin. Perhaps once a day to start is enough to level / rough after it cures overnight. Is it OK to apply a couple coats of the hard carnauba wax to prevent wear on the T.O.? Thanks my friend.
@@blairswanson44 Hi Blair. It's actually a quick process to learn, practicing on some scrap is the golden path to understanding. I have used carnauba wax on the headstock; I would be willing to use it on a guitar body that I'm building for myself but would be a little unsure of selling an instrument with the body waxed.
@@deadedith I recall reading that TO thin film coats don't "melt" into each other as do lacquer coats. Please help me understand. When I use white scotch pad to achieve satin finish, I'm assuming that it's safest to work on a CURED (1 week) finish so as to not remove any of that final (just dried) coat. I have had good results with doing satin from gloss on cured lacquer but if TO is basically NOT an accumulated "thicker" coat (melted as above), I'd like to understand more about that. Thank you so much for your time & consideration David.
@@blairswanson44 Thanks Blair for reinforcing that point! A week or two of curing is definitely important for those that wish to 'work' the finish to a degree of gloss or shine. I do know of people that cure a month or more and I think they have some justification for that though I haven't gone to that extent.
Thank you ,brilliant presentation and very informative.....on another level for me to aspire to ...
Thank you. I hope you have excellent results.
Hi Dave.
Im replying regarding to your reply on my previous comment, where you wrote that its nescesary to clean up TO in between layers, and that youve used mineral spirits and scotch brite to wipe with, and that the layers should form uniforn dull surfaces.
i didnt sand in between all layers. I hope it’s not too late to fix that. It has been shiny in between layers, and i do see streaks. i can sand with the maroon scotch brite to remove streaks, but im concerned thats too harsh of a grit.
. What grit should I sand in between layers? I’ve been using the white scotch Brite, which I think is supposed to be equivelant to 0000 steel whool,, but i don’t see it visually doing much. I do feel the finish become smoother after using the white scotch Brite but I don’t see much difference in the sheen. I have a maroon scotch Brite which I see a big difference in, but I think that’s equal to a 350grit paper.
Should I wet sand with mineral spirits or only use afterwards to clean up?
Thanks for all the guidance. 🙏
Wow I'm so glad I found this. I've been applying tru oil following other people's methods for the past week on my first build. I couldn't get it to look even on the spruce top for the life of me until I saw this video. Thanks for posting!
I'm glad to hear that the vid is helping out! Keep in touch.
Hi Dave.....thanks a ton for your video. My son and I are building our first guitar together. Of all the videos and research we've been done on this project, YOUR video has been the "secret" we needed. Thanks so much!
Bart
Thanks for the great video. I am on coat number 3 of applying a Tru-Oil finish on an 84 Squire Bullet SSS, made in Japan.
I was leaving a very thin coat on to dry... 0000 steel wool in between coats and was applying by bear hand.
I have very small streaks and was wondering how to do the very last coat, (I plan on 10 or so to get a glossy glaze.)
Thanks to you, I now have my answer!
This body had been sloppily repainted and it took hours of sanding. I was elated to see some really great figure in the wood and went with a dye instead of paint and it is looking so good and like you said the tactile feel is great.
I really like using Tru-Oil thank you for teaching others how to get, dare I say, flawless results.
As an oil painter I know that any oil-based medium that cures in 3 hours has LOTS of additives (e.g. driers, wax, varnish, etc.). That might turn out fine but I tend to opt for a more time-tested traditional route (4-6 weeks). I learned this from my Grandfather and recently saw some furniture that I had restored in high school, 45 YEARS AGO! It looked perfect. No modern product (urethane spar varnish, etc.,) has ever stood up for more than 5 years. But we Americans are an impatient lot!
David, Thank you for your quick reply, and I haven't even gotten out the door yet. I started out wanting to use Tru-Oil, but I could not find any. Then last night I found out on "You-Tube that Tru-Oil was for gun stocks, so therefore I checked with "Bass Pro" here in Council Bluffs Iowa and they do have it, so here I go after it. Thank you again for a job well done. Earl
Dear Dave,thank you very much for your useful tips!!!I'm a newbie greek luthier making the traditional Lyra instrument of Crete.I have already purchased the Tru oil(I thought it would be a nice alternative way to polish,though I consider shellac the best lustre),Tru oil seems to be a similar and very good stuff to work with,Im excited by its result,as I have already applied a couple of coats in the Lyra I'm working with at the moment!!!...
That's a good insight, thanks.
TO finishes do hold up well, being designed first of all for heavily used pistol stock finishing, so I don't have any big worries about that - but 45 years, that's incredible! And I applaud the patience of traditional finishers and painters, craftsmen of all stripes could learn a whole lot from them. Thanks again!
Hi Earl - yes I just used the seal coat on a student's guitar and it works very nicely. I wiped on a thin coat of seal, let it dry, then used steel wool to take all the seal off; then looked for any open pores, found some, and did a second coat of the seal - it dries quickly, couple hours at the most. Then wooled off the shellac once again, leaving a surface with a nice sheen . Then sanded with 600 and 800 and started with the TO application.
Nice! Might give it a try in a few days on the new build. Any cons to applying true oil on the soundboard, at least sound wise when compared to maybe laquer or a french polish finish? Thanks for the vid!
Great looking guitar! Thank you for making this, really goes to show thin coats are best. I just didn't realize you could go THIS thin with tru oil and still have it work.
So far I'm loving tru oil MUCH more than a poly coat, or even danish oil, I never did like poly for even heavily used furniture.
Thank you David. Great video......
Mr Dave hello again!!thanks for responding to me,I really appreciate it!!!...your tips looked familiar to me..I was in to take this action and I think I have achieved it in a desirable level at least!!..In fact I used the combination of tru oil and shellac together and I confess that Im very pleased!!!...Thank you very much again and keep up the good work!!!Greetings from Crete-Greece!!!..:))...P.S :I have uploaded a pic of my work..that would be my profile's pic.
Hi Dave, great informative video. i wonder if you might be able to answer a couple of questions i have regarding finishing. The guitar i am finishing is similar in color to the center portion of the guitar in your video, but i wish to achieve a much darker finish, similar to the outer portions of your guitar. is there i stain i could use prior to using TO to achieve this, and still keep the grain visible? kind regards, Adrian
DTM1864 - I use TO as the sealer for the wood as well, the very thin coats do a perfectly fine job of sealing.
I would just simple shellac in the pockets.
I'm building an electric guitar and planning to use a Tru Oil as a finish. I've already bought a bottle of it, but have never use it before. So, this tutorial is so helpful to me. I would only like to ask how many coats of Tru Oil it takes to get a glass like finish?
Thanks
Thank you, I'm pleased that my low-tech method helped you.
I'm interested in how you used the shellac with the tru-oil. I would like to try that out - can you share your method? And a picture of your work?
Thanks
David
Medford, Oregon
Good Morning David, from Earl. I would like to ask one more question please, about using Tru-Oil. My Baritone Ukulele has a ring of white binding surrounding the sound hole, will it hurt the binding to apply Tru-Oil on top of it? I am willing to use painters tape to mask it off. David, thank You for all of your help, Earl.
Hello Simcha _ I hope I have your name right!
I use mineral spirits to clean up TO. In my first attempts I had to remove the TO completely and start anew, but in short order learned to apply it in very thin coats - 2 to 4 per day depending on dryness - using, usually, a blue, paper shop cloth, folded into a pad. Be sure that the TO coat is dry before you put on a new coat!
I notice a few internet sites referring to the TO application on musical instruments; you might want to check them out as well. Good luck. Dave.
Hey Dave. Thanks for the reply. Yup u got my name right. It means Joy in Hebrew. How do you reccomend cleaning the tru oil streaks? Should I wet sand with a maroon 3m scotch Brite? What’s a good way to make sure I’m putting the layers on thin enough? I only got streaking on the soundboard which is a laminate wood, I think it was too smooth so the oil didn’t absorb as well. I will use the method in this video of wiping up excess oil for my future attempts
@@TzufFamilyBand Yep you should clean up TO; it does not form one homogeneous layer. That's a reason for thin coats, btw. I have used mineral spirits to clean, oil-free steel wool or scotch brite to wipe with. You want the TO layers to look right when you let them dry, no streaks or runs; sand them lightly after they are dry to give a uniform dull surface - not shiny! - until the last coat.
Hmmm. I hope it’s not too late to fix that. It has been shiny in between layers. What grit should I sand in between layers? I’ve been using the white scotch Brite, which I think is supposed to be equivelant to 0000 steel whool,, but i don’t see it visually doing much. I do feel the finish become smoother after using the white scotch Brite but I don’t see much difference in the sheen. I have a maroon scotch Brite which I see a big difference in, but I think that’s equal to a 350grit paper.
Should I wet sand with mineral spirits or only use afterwards to clean up?
Thanks for all the guidance. 🙏
Nice job - what do you use for pore filling? I have the birchwood casey filler/sealer as well, just haven't used it yet.
Hi David, and I like your video about Tru-Oil. In the comments you talked about using Zinsser Seal Coat. Did you use this Zinsser Seal Coat on an acoustic guitar? I have never refinished an acoustic instrument before. However, I am now redoing a "Weiss Ukulele" that now has good sound and I want to keep it that way. I am now going out to get Tru-Oil & this Zinsser Seal Coat, but I won't use this seal coat until you get a chance to reply. Thank You Earl and keep up your good work.
Awesome! Thank you!!!!! See you on the guitar forum!
I've not tried any finish on fretboards; that being said, TO is used on gunstocks so for protection and smoothness I would think it would work fine on uke necks.
Make sure they are not too rough - sand with 600 grit or so just to make sure before applying the oil.
Okay. Thanks so very much for that reply. Again, fabulous video. I learned a lot from it.
Gr8 video, thank you! Q: I have some ukuleles with a smooth finish on ebony fretboard, and most have a regular, slightly rough, fretboard. On the unfinished ones, could I use Tru-oil to add sheen and protection from finger sweat and grime? This is particularly poignant on light colored, maple fretboards. Thoughts? Thx.
Are you wiping all coats off in this way from the ground up. Or are you applying wet coats for a few days in the beginning and sanding back to get it level? Thanks!
Hiya - it depends what I'm going for; an open-pore satin finish, a pore-filled satin or the whole enchilada - porefilled high gloss. All are possible. Which one are you contemplating?
@@deadedith well, I’m not sure. I do like high gloss, but also think I “might” prefer a satin/semi gloss on this but I don’t know. It’s a solid body electric I made and stained and dyed black. It is a closed pore wood. I love the look in videos of the thin true oil satin finish where things start out by sanding an oil/wood slurry and they seem to get an excellent satin semi gloss without any rub out after final coats. That is not really an option since this piece needed to be stained. I’ve been wiping on 2 thin coats a day, and sanding…it’s starting to get closer to being level. In my experience rubbing back with 2,000 or 4,000grit or steel wool for a satin doesn’t work as well over black as it usually looks a bit dull and scratchy. I’m wondering if after getting level I could try your wipe off technique for a “off the rag” final finish without need for rubbing it out with anything. While I guess I could try and build up more and do a full buff for gloss, I’m skeptical. It would be my luck to spend all that build up time, then cure time, and I would still burn through buffing it. Thanks for response, I’ve spent countless hours researching this and just don’t have enough hands on experience to know. Also first time with tru oil.
Hi David. I have a question that I wonder if you can help me.
I had a knock on my NitroCellulose finish. Sand and wetsand the spot to level it but the move went all the way through the fiinish and got the wood in that spot.
My question is:
All the guitar is Nitro, and i cant get Nitrocellulose in Portugal
What if I sand the top and aply tru-oil..., do you think it is ok???
Do you think theres any harm for the top?
thank you
My first thought would be to try a bottle of the spray-on tru-oil. It goes on thin and you would not have to wipe it off. If I can think of anything else I'll get back to you. If you do try it, please let me know how it worked out for you.
Dave
This guitar had no pore filler, as an experiment. I turned out nice, but not as nice as a pore filled guitar. Normally I will mix the TO with a little thinner and pour some on the surface and sand it to create a slurry that will sand into the pores. Takes a couple of applications.
I just bought some of the B-C filler to try out. Let me know if you try it, I will post my results here.
Hi David, how do you go about doing the top, seeing that you are attaching the neck after the finishing process. Do you mask off the fretboard and bridge area? Thanks in advance.
Hi Jim - One of two ways. I very lightly trace the outline of the bridge onto the top, then trace the outline of the bridge onto a couple of strips of tape and put that bridge-shaped tape on the top and then apply finish. Or - and I think this gives better results - I go ahead and finish the top first, then, after it is good and dry, I'll trace the outline of the bridge onto thick paper, cut the shape of the bridge out of the paper, and use the remaining paper with the bridge shape cut out of it, by taping it to the top so that the bridge-shaped hole is in the correct position. Then leaving the taped down paper in place, carefully sand the TO off the top in the bridge location using the paper. I hope that is clearer than mud! If not let me know.
@@deadedith It is way clearer than mud! Thanks. If you are familiar with John Hall, I followed his method on my last build and it worked out very well. Very similar to your second suggestion but using a Dremel to remove the finish rather than sandpaper. Thanks again.
I love Tru oil and it looks great on ukuleles too :D What are you doing with the top?
Hi - good to hear from you. I have been using TO on the top as well; I tried something new on this last guitar, and using a very inexpensive aerosol spray outfit ($10) and some Sealcoat shellac right out of the bottle, I sprayed a few coats on the top, let it sit for a few days, then rubbed it out a bit. It looks very nice. The vid is on my channel.
Hi - that is east indian rosewood with a center section of mahogany. It turned out just great.
After tru oil had dried before using shellac I did wet sanding using soft papergrids (600 to 1200) and final steel whool..then after I applied shellac and it perfectly came to fit giving a nice film on my piece of work!!!..:))...
Deadedith, is there anything on the surface of the guitar under the True Oil, or did you apply the True Oil to bare wood? Also, would you recommend applying True Oil to bolt on guitar neck pockets which generally remain bare? I was considering using True Oil on bolt on neck pockets for moisture protection.
hello, how would you recommend applying tru-oil to very small objects? im having difficulty avoiding smudges holding pieces with odd shapes
kind regards
andy
I found an old gooey bottle of this stuff in the basement and hit a gunstock with it on a whim I thought it was a varnish to build up so I kept applying coats (quickly, it was thick and tacky!). Over the course of prob a month of coats and fine steel wool buffing it filled the grain and polished to a crazy gloss. I'm awful at woodworking and used sticky old tru-oil, but it came out amazing, it's way forgiving. I'd never made a piece of wood look so nice, I'm doin it right with my guitar though:)
I love tru oil, would it work on a cedar soundboard too?
So, I'm assuming you use this as an alternative to spray lacquer, not just as a top coat? How many coats do you do? Do I need to apply grain filler over mahogany first?
Hi if you want a high gloss finish , grain fill is a necessity. The link I provided to Pettingill describes the method I use. In fact his method will get you to the high gloss you want.
I don't go to high gloss, so brain filling is not a step I take. Experiment On some scrap wood to see what's best for you.
Good luck. Oh - yes, I use it as an alternative to spraying lacquer. I myself am not a fan of high gloss, but that's certainly just a matter of taste. The guitar shown in my video was all tru-oil, no pore filling, and the finish is just as good today as in 2011. Gads, I cannot believe it has been that long.
Dave
@@deadedith Thanks for your reply David. I'm not really into high gloss finishes either, a really smooth matte finish looks best in my opinion.
@@deadedith Yes, it sure is crazy how much time flies!!! I don't see the Pettingill link that you refer to? How do you think the tru-oil differs from nitro when it comes to sound???
@@adamsartist496 No difference that I can hear; it's a thin finish. I can find the Pettingill link if you'd like it.
How did it go with the pore-filling with tru-oil experiment, I wonder?
Was it possible to fill the pores with enough coats of tru-oil and if so how many coats did you end up putting on?
Hi Chris - the bridge can be done at either time; my preference is to make a bridge-shaped piece of masking tape or blue tape (put the bridge on it and just trace around it) and place the tape exactly where the bridge will be glued, and put the finish around it. Or just put on the finish, then locate the exact bridge location and sand the finish off in that area. It's easy to sand, just takes a minute. I trace the bridge onto some poster paper, cut out the bridge shaped hole, sand the shape.
Hi,
When you say filling pores with shellac, are you sanding in dust and shellac or just shellac? Thanks!
Hi - I'm actually applying the shellac, letting it dry, then sanding off the surface shellac leaving just the shellac in the pores. And then repeat.
@@deadedith thanks!
@@bellsriverguitar Renaissance Lute ? Cool.
@@deadedith yes, I got the David Van Edwards course and built a lute. A lot of fun.
@@bellsriverguitar Excellent. I may look into that course myself. Did you find it comprehensive and easy to follow?
The gunstock method just does not work on the guitars I've built, where the thinnest of possible coats is preferable. It may work for others. Mine is only one approach, but it does work. Thanks for the comment.
@photocowan
Just open wood. The first coat, thinned, works fine as a sealer coat.
Yes. You can use pretty much anything over shellac as long as it's dewaxed. You should be good to go. Just make sure that once the last coat has been applied wait 2 weeks to make sure the finish is fully cured before stringing it up
Hi Dave: Great video! I am using Shellac & the French Polishing technique on a guitar that I just finished. Can one or two light coats of Tru-Oil be used as a final application over the FP for better protection & durability? Can T-O be thinned out for easier application? If so, what would you use to thin it with? Also, how would you go about doing a final buffing on either FP or Tru-Oil? Thanks, Steve
Hi SS - I would advise against the TO on top of FP. TO can be thinned 50/50 with mineral spirits.
There are online sources for buffing FP, and since I'm not that knowledgeable about FP I suggest you check them out.
Here is a link to a forum I take part in; scroll down to the 'finishing' category and I'm pretty sure there is a section on FP. In fact, here it is:
acousticguitarconstructionforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27
Thanks so much for the quick response Dave...........
Great video David. Love the way you explained it. I had done a guitar body with tru oil but could never get rid of the streaks. Will try this method. But total how many coats do you apply? And do you thin down the last few coats? Also , the kitchen towel could be of any brand or type? or any specific requirement is there?
Although I did it the same way,some smudges have appeared on the surface of front side board.I would please like you to give me an extra hand on that!!!By the way,is the combination of shellac and tru oil appropriate??...Thank you in advance,with respect!!!...Pavlos.
Great video, it helped to much!!! thanks a lot.
Hey thanks for the demo! Did you start with a sealer or just open wood.. I am getting ready to finish an old Framus and I was considering tru oil.
thanks for the video!
Can you put truoil over epoxy? Also, I would imagine you just put truoil on the soundboard and nothing else.
beautiful guitar. What kind of wood?
Outstanding! Always a new way to do things :-) Good luck on the guitar, let us know how it turns out.
Sweet... was that done with an ole Eastmanaolor camera or perhaps a JVC VHS camcorder?
+sgim43
It was done with a very cheap Sony 'Bloggie' camera, which I use mainly as a regular digital camera, but it also takes not-so-good movies :-)
Dave, what grit sandpaper? I know you said fine, or rather superfine. Thanks. Nice looking guitar by the way!
Hey David,I have a new Martin that I just bought, I bought it because it's all solid & sounds fantastic, yet the top has no finish & it seems would become scuffed easily. Am I able to use just this process to coat the top for a bit of protection? I want this guitar to last.
Michael - could there be a matte finish on that top, that protects but does not reflect light? What modell Martin do you have?
Michael - here's an excerpt - one of many - that came up by a google search for 'how to shine up a martin matte finish' or words like that. The method I excerpted had good success for a number of people, apparently.
" glossed my Martin 000-15s. I used Stew Mac swirle remover and Stew Mac preservation polish. It gave my 000 12 fret slothead Martin a soft gloss finish. This is the look I was after. My Martin now looks like it was made in 1935. You will never get a real gloss finish on a 15 series Martin. "
I would not put any other finish on it, the incompatibility would no doubt ruin it. Just be careful to get a product that is silicone-free, and don't over-do it: the finish that is on there now is very thin - a good thing - but with too much zeal in the polishing, you could go through the finish. Very light touch, you don't have to do it all at once.
Good luck!
Hi! After to do that, do you need to polish the guitar? How about the polish method do you use? Thank you.
Hi - I generally let the finish cure for a week or so and then rub it down to a satin sheen with 0000 steel wool. That's about it.
Thank you so much!
so you don't need to coat it with nitro or lacquer of some sort?
Nothing goes on top of the TO. Let the finish cure for a week at least, then assess. I normally just leave it alone or buff it with a cloth.
Nice job and beautiful guitar btw:) It's comical how many coats I applied and buffed off later with 000 steel wool before i realized what I'd done. That killed some time but at least it filled the grain:$ Then I left it alone between coats and just kept building it. That's when i remembered the internet existed and found great info/vids like this one :D I finally ended up lettin it cure for a few months (I forgot it) before I polished it. Talk about satisfying, can't wait to do the guitar!
Pavlos - your project sounds interesting!
If a smudge appears, I will first try rubbing it with a cloth or a paper towel, for a couple of minutes. If that does not work, I will rub with some very fine steel wool. I will perhaps use a few drops of mineral spirits with the paper towel or the steel wool.
The tru-oil and shellac work fine together, but I only use dewaxed shellac.
You are correct that using a clean paper towel is a must during the procedure.
I would love to see a pic of your progress
Hi Dave, how many coats did you end up applying? Also, are you still using this method? Thanks
Hi Jim - Yep I still use this method. On that guitar I think 9 coats. If you are going for high gloss, then the pores on the back and sides will have to be filled, either by further coats of TO or by some other method. On that guitar, it was simply more very light coats of TO.
@@deadedith I've got 12 coats on so far and the pores are almost filled. I didn't pore fill first though. I don't think I'll use any other finish from now on. It's so easy to apply, there is next to zero cleanup and it looks great.
@@jim9637 I agree Jim.
...and Fanny's your aunt. I'm looking into polishing pianos, the ones I build, copies of models predating french polish (before1820), and I picture this oil, or danish oil, plus something called renaissance wax might do better for late18th century cherry or walnut pianos. How clean and regular are large surfaces, like lids, do you think, using tru oil. How much does 8 oz of tru oil cover. One guitar? Six? Thanks very much. Paul
Paul - I've not used the TO on anything larger than a guitar so I can't speak authoritatively about a larger surface. 8 oz of TO would do 4 or 5 guitars.
I think the TO/Renaissance wax would make a killer finish, though. Why not try the process on a cheap board that will give you a feel for the application and whether it will meet your expectations?
I've got a Takamine EAN 10, with an unfinished cedar top. I've been thinking of applying tru oil to it with a flat finish to protect the wood. Pros can cons?
*Билли Старчер*
I have a guitar Takamine GB7 with cedar top. I removed the varnish from the deck and just like you want to cover with linseed oil. Have you covered your Takamine EAN 10 with oil?
Hello - There are a lot of useful application methods. Applying the TO the way I do it does not build up a very thick finish at all. Many people wipe on/wipe off a few coats as I do, and then wipe on, let dry, wipe on. let dry and in that way build up a thicker coat, which they then let cure for at least a week and then lightly buff to the degree of shine they find acceptable.
I generally do 10-12 coats with my wipe-on/wipe off method - this helps to fill the pores and gives a nice thin finish.
I don't sand any farther than 320 grit for final sanding. Anything over that I've always had adhesion problems except for watco danish oil plus anything over 320 seems to be overkill, 320 hides all scratches unless you look with magnification. Maple I've always heard to not go over 220 because it's so closed grain and needs the rougher grit for adhesion.
Pretty good ideas here. I like buying the small bottles of Tru-Oil because I find that the shelf life for the product is short.
Robert Bagwell ive heard to make a hole in the foil instead of peeling it off and then storing it upside down. Supposedly it makes it keep longer.
Excellent - I was more influenced by that flick than I thought - of course, watching it a dozen times may have had that effect on me. :-)
Thanks for the very helpful response. Something will come of it, and I'll send a photo. All the best, P
Hey David, If I apply the same process to the guitar neck (the neck, not fretboard), is it gonna make the neck more smoother and faster?
Yep. Not everyone will fill the pores on the neck, that is strictly a matter of taste (I don't do it myself) but yeah, tru-oil is fantastic on the neck. Sand the neck first to 320, nice and smooth, and you will be happy!
David Bagwill thank you sir, I'll give it a try next week
In the end, did you get a level finish without pore-filling?
Yep. Though in subsequent instruments, I have found it quicker to fill the pores with shellac instead, and then using only a few heavier coats of TO.
David Bagwill Awesome. Thank you
Thank you for video Nice
I would advise against TO over epoxy. The TO pore filler works great and helps to pop the grain, and of course is completely compaible with the TO topcoats.
I do the whole instrument with TO unless someone asks for a different finish. Some people think that an oil on the soundboard will dampen the sound; actually, TO is more of a varnish, goes on very thin, and does penetrate enough to dampen sound.
Sounds like Adam West :)
To all - I have been experimenting and now have changed my procedure somewhat, with better results. I first sand to 150, then apply (brush or rag) a good coat of Zinsser Seal Coat, let it dry, then rub it off with 0000 steel wool, leaving the shellac in the pores only. It may necessitate a second coat, then more rubbing - just fill the pores. Then sand thru the grits as high as you like - I go to at least 800. Then for application I use...
thank you
Beautiful finish. I've used TO on one instrument so far, and am totally converted to using it. One thing I'd like to know, however, is what you pore fill with. Would you think it okay to use an epoxy filler such as Z-Poxy?
Hi Jim - if I remember correctly, Birchwood-Casey techs suggested that I NOT put the TO over epoxy. You might want to drop them a line and ask - they are very good about answering. When you get an answer maybe you could post it here for the good of the realm?
customerservice@birchwoodcasey.com
I use thin shellac as a pore filler.
David Bagwill Many thanks for your reply, David. I'll follow this up as you suggest.
David Bagwill Emailed B C, but have had no reply after 3 days. I tried using Z-Poxy on a test piece of rosewood, and it gives perfect results.
Jim MacBrayne
Zpoxy does an excellent job of pore filling and 'popping' the grain.
Let me try to get something definite from BC today.
David Bagwill Jim - I found some old notes in a file just now - the suggested action is to apply a coat of clear shellac over the zpoxy before applying the TO. There is no evidence that there is a TO-Zpoxy adhesion problem, but there is concern, thus the shellac suggestion.
Hope that helps. I think the Zpoxy-TO would be a killer combination.
Hi - TO goes on so thin that the consensus is it does affect tone at all. I cannot hear any differences with other finishes I have tried.
OTOH, those classical players make a good case for French polishing the top.
My feeling is : if people cannot hear the difference, there is no difference.
Keep in touch!
Dave
I think any stain would be suitable. It's always best to test a sample on the same type of wood you will be building with. Perhaps a side by side test on some scrap - just TO on one, stain plus TO on the other. That means an extra day for the test, but as a reward you will know for sure what it will look like. Good lluck!
I want to stand at your crusal point where you say: "are you removing the oil (that is on the instrument) with the paper towel or are you removing the oil (that is on the instrument)with the oil (that is on the paper towel)???"...What I get by your description is that we have to use clear paper towel all the time,so that no smudge would appear on the surface.....
(continued) ..a wad of cheesecloth inside a square piece of microfiber cloth - miracle maid or something of that sort that has no fuzz or lint - wrap it around the cheesecloth into a ball the size of a golf ball and twist the top and tie in place. Put a little TO on the ball and lay the oil on with the grain in long even strokes. Maybe I'll shoot another vid to show you what I mean if there is enough interest shown. It works GREAT.
Apply a couple of wipe on coats of Tru Oil or Danish Oil. Keep it extremely thin. Allow to dry thoroughly. That darkens the wood and brings out the grain. French Polish (or brush Shellac) on top of that. It's the very similar to the French method of F.Polishing and nicer than F,Polishing alone IMO.
Alternately just stay with the Oil! I much prefer the dull sheen you get form wipe on Oil (no grits or polishing compounds) rather than the wood wrapped in glossy plastic look. Less work too :-)
First, the best thing is to begin with the wood color that you want to end with and skip the staining all-together. That being said, if you are referring to staining the wood on the back and sides, then staining is the first thing to do, and it can be done successfully if you follow some guidelines: first and foremost, always always always practice on scrap material of the same kind you are building with. Google min-wax and follow their instructions. I may post a tutorial on staining soon.
Tru-oil is nothing more then Stand oil with Stoddard solvent (mineral spirits).
What's Stand oil?
Stand oil is linseed oil set in a vacuum and heated to approximately 500°+ for an extended period of time. It's thick, more clear and dries unlike any other linseed product - it doesn't yellow with age. It’s not to be confused with any other linseed products like raw or boiled linseed oil. It's been used by artists for years and is available online or at good art supply stores, I’m an art conservator and I've been using it for years - it's less expensive then Tru-oil. Unfortunately, so many people have been snowed by big companies and their "proprietary formulas." Look it up.
Thanks that's interesting and good information.
Thanks :)
You don't have to! You can put three coats on a day, and the next morning sand lightly with mineral spirits and do more coats. I have good luck doing it the way I do, and it works, but it's always worth experimenting. Try googling "Tom Pettingill tr-oil" and you will find a wealth of information. He gets some killer finishes with the TO.
interesting. I've never seen anyone wipe off tru-oil. On my gun stocks i put about 20 coats on, and it looks like the wood is under glass. If it works this way, don't stop I suppose
The glass finish is more of a technique than a number of coats. Please read this thread and see if it helps you. FWIW, I use 10-12 coats.
Go to: the gear page.net, thread number 711780
Has anyone ever told you that you sound like Ron Swanson?
lol omg pull up a picture of ron swanson and stare at it with this video on in the background :)
Too funny, that's exactly what I was thinking ;)
Be sure to just put a small hole in the foil cover instead of removing the foil, and also store it upside down.
Beautiful work David! I am doing my first guitar build (vintage Les Paul), and I am planning to do a stained finish (this one to be precice ua-cam.com/video/zkVQZmApubQ/v-deo.html). Would you happen to know if the TO changes the colors a lot? I know they darken, and get more depth, but I don't want any tint from the oil. Also, for how long should the TO be allowed to cure in between each coat?
Thanks for a great video!
+Martin Engdahl Hello Martin! Thanks for commenting.
TO will darken light wood noticeably - for instance, I often use curly maple for the bindings, and if I want to keep them pristine in color I will apply a wash coat of shellac to them and then use pinstriping tape to cover them while I do the TO thing. However, since I don't like bright white binding, I go ahead and TO the bindings as well and to my eye they look better.
TO does have a slight tinting effect. My advice is to ALWAYS try any new method on some scrap material of the same sort you are concerned about. It is really worth an extra few hours or a day to test something on scrap rather than on your build.
Depending on humidity, the TO can take from 1-2 hours or so to dry between coats. A little 220 sandpaper will tell you if it is dry enough to recoat - if the 220 makes some dust, you're good to go; if the finish balls up on the 220, give it a bit more time. There's no hurry.
+David Bagwill Big thanks, you sharing experience like this is invaluable to us beginners!
Sorry, I missed the reference.
A bit of an inside joke. Your first sentence sounded like Agent Smith in "The Matrix". Great demo & thanks for the info!
Cool
Yep, tape it off. Also, you might want to dilute the Zinsser about 1/2 and 1/2 with mineral spirits before wiping it on - for no other reason than it will save you some time when you are rubbing it off with the steel wool.
10-12 coats did the trick.
Mr David,nothing special on this ocassion..I just simply followed your steps with tru oil..letting the instrument to dry well,after that I used my smoothiest shellac the most dissolved one with more alcohol...I considered tru oil as a more coarse lustre,kinda it would help fill the wood,although it gives a good gloss by its own!!In combination with my smooth shellac...
P.S : get in my channel to see my pic!!!..I dont know other way to upload a photo on UA-cam,its for video making...