Bourgeois Top Voicing Demonstration
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2014
- This video shows Dana Bourgeois voicing the top of a Bourgeois Guitar. This procedure is applied to every guitar built at Bourgeois Guitars. This video was filmed and edited by Scott Fore.
Lutherie doesn't get any better than this. Thanks for sharing!
What can you say. He is a master artist and craftsman, knows and cares about making the best sounding instrument.
i learned from this video a lot, and my 1st guitar was very influenced by your advices and it sound amazing. And of course my teacher Sergei de Jonge had a lot of credits that my guitar is made good. Thank you!
65 YEARS OLD GOT MY FIRST GIBSON ACOUSTIC IN 1969 (MANNYS MUSIC NYC ) I NEVER KNEW THIS WAS HOW YOU GOT THE TONE ON AN ACOUSTIC AND BTW YOU ARE LOOKING AT A TRUE GENIUS AT WORK
Corte The killer
Older video, Dana Bourgeois is a master at building acoustic guitars 🎸 he builds some of the best guitars, I own a Bourgeois Vintage-D it's one of the best sounding guitars I've played, another great builder is Robin Boucher, he voices all his tops the same way, Bourgeois and Boucher two of the best guitars on the market, great video.
what's the lunch special Dana?
Dana: Harmonic Soup
I met Dana at the IBMA awards in Raleigh NC in the fall of 2018. He is a super nice guy willing to share his knowledge.
Thanks for sharing Dana. So many keep their "secret" close to their chest. So ridiculous, not even Stradivari kept a secret.
Murray Kuun Design Amen to that! Dude, I have been a beginner in the art and it's amazing how shitty i have been treated by luthiers in my area.
Excellent job and demostration! Thank you!
Thanks for the insights.
Awesome!!!! Thanks for posting this vid.
I love this guy and I am very grateful for his wonderful wonderful guitars.
Thanks so much for explaining this the way you did.
Amazing the difference of sounds. What a great craftsman.
That was incredible ! Thanks for sharing . And to be quite honest , I never thought I'd say that about a guy tapping on wood ....but that was super insightful . Best video I've seen on voicing !
Interesting.....Thanks for posting.
My first thought was , how does someone get a sweet job like that? Then I kept watching and listening and I thought , oh right ... SKILL!
Actually here building speakers. I got annoyed by all the arguments of whether a box is necessary for sound transmission (hello instruments).
So got some thin mahogany and I'm aiming to add a tone board, bit of real wood compared to mdf.
Theory is good I think😂
Iam very impressed!
Wow. I've build a couple of electrics before, but now I'm building a mandola and this has been so helpful.
Also an insight into what makes the difference between a quality instrument and a standard product
Thanks for sharing your approach and skills with us Dana... I really do love your work and craftsmanship as a luthier. I would love to build my own guitars, even though I am no spring chicken [lol] nevertheless it is a dream I would love to bring to fruition. Great detail and direction in your commentary and you really can hear the tonal development as you progress through the video tuition. Much appreciated... :)
🤓 Fascinating. Artist doing Artistry. 🤘🥳👍
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
How important is the thickness of various areas of the top to the voicing process?
Wow! what a difference from the first time you tapped the top to the second time. You didn't take much out but i could hear the pure note rings. That's amazing . Love your workmanship and i must say I can't remember what guitar of yours i heard, but it rang out for like 30 or 40 seconds. I never heard an acoustic ring that long before. Awesome work you do.
No. Stop hearing things. Demand actual metrics, everyone wins.
Thanks very much. I found thar extremely interesting. I'm only a hobby luthier, and not a particularly good one, at that. But I've played around making the odd instrument for three to four decades.. Firstly, I believe that the high points on your scalloped braces, are in fact, some of the node points along the length of the brace. A friend build a number of superb marimbas, in my workshop a number of years ago. The marimba keys are exactly like the braces. There is a huge difference in the vibrance, of a shaped key, in comparison with a flat key. Yes I realise that the note also changes. I also believe that if you wanted to go further. you could thin the top itself, around the area of some of the anti nodes. I believe that as well as mechanically strengthening the top. The purpose of braces, is to transmit the vibrations across the grain, of the top to various points. Something that I have also wondered, is, if the bridge is situated on a dominant node, along the length of the soundboard, and for that matter, the whole length of the instrument, as well. Surely this must have a profound affect on the sound of the instrument. These are only my unproven theories through my own observations. I'm very interested in other peoples opinions about this?
I noticed that when you tap, your finger nail is always coming into contact with the soundboard, i assume that this is totally intentional. I haven't been doing this with my top, but will attempt to see if it alters the sound. Thanks so much for sharing, this video is FANTASTIC. Most Luthiers guard their secrets with their lives.
My guess is that maybe a finger nail is more likely to impart the same kind of dynamic that a pick might impart on a string.
Hi Dana. I watch all of your tone wood and voicing videos I can find. I have not found one yet where you address rear shifted vs standard vs forward shifted.
This is so cool, I didn't realize when you scallop the bracing your actually kinda tuning the top!
This Fenomina is so overrated 😠
@@dontsubscribeme9547 Phenomena...... also, not overrated.
@@dontsubscribeme9547
That’s phenomenon. Phenomena is the plural form of phenomenon.
@@dontsubscribeme9547 This what? Lol I know what you were trying to say, and yeah I'm not so sure about tap tuning either
Interesting video!!. What I noticed as well is that when Dana speaks he sounds like Jared Leto. Cheers!
Fascinating. I have to wonder, though, how directly that predicts how it will behave when the entire edge is glued to the sides, the finger board glued to the top, the bridge added and the string tension applied? You showed how just holding it in different places produced different tones, so it must be different in the completed instrument.
I’m not suggesting this is hooey, it’s been done forever, and I’m sure it helps, I just wonder if it works for reasons that are not fully understood.
yeah you have a great point. pretty much just getting good tap and flex will make for a great sounding instrument but of course someone who has spent years doing this will argue.
Good vid. Very informative. What is H tone? I thought I heard you use it to describe the tonewood in the beginning of the video. Thanks.
I've read and listened to many explanations of tap tuning and it's still as clear as mud to me. I guess from experience a builder might learn that a certain tap tone will produce a certain type of sound in a finished guitar, but it just seems too subjective to me. For instance won't the tap tone alter when the soundboard is attached to the sides, effectively immobilizing the wood at that point and changing the way the soundboard vibrates? I'm not saying that Dana's guitars aren't fine instruments, just that some of the things he says just don't make sense to me.
exactly! i'm sure a lot of good gets done with the process outlined here, but i can't help thinking that the fine tuning should be done with the sides attached, also the neck and strung up to full tension
Contact area of top sounboard affects only a tiny portion of upper harmonics. Fundamentals and the main harmonics remain Intact. Haven't you noticed what drummers do, with tape on snare drums? Back and sides act in amplifying sounwaves.
Why does some vintage straight braces sound soo good?
This is a T R I P ..🎶🎵💥🌈.... like a cosmic leap into creativity..... I'm going to go tone tapping all my guitars...not to be critical, do you get finger nail gouges in your tops?
I have been watching and listening to you guys on you tube tapping rough braced guitar tops for the right sound, and Collings tapping and the SantaCruz guy tapping, but I still wonder how all of you guys can really predict the final sound of the guitar before it is all assembled and strung.
Is there a magic formula or is it magic ears.
I would like to do the same on my spruce top but I can't really say what is a good top or if it needs some braces tuning.
Isn't it hit and miss at the end ?
They probably already know how the final sound would be for a certain tap tone after making a bunch of guitars
Experience!
I used to tune my old guild by humming into the body. G flat was what I tuned the G to. Now I use a snark but used that method for years.
Do most guitars have a frequency that resonate strongly? That guild is still a great guitar but is too boomy when mic'd.
It seems that making a good sounding guitar is of pure experimentation. A painstaking process. No guitars sound exactly the same either its hand made or machine made. Likewise, no tone wood or wood grain are exactly the same too. We need to have a keen sense of hearing and preference to know the guitar we like. Of course, we should always look for fine craftsmanship and good materials used, irregardless of brands....
Does Dana do this personally to all the guitars that leave the factory? Thx
Yes he duz
Yup...every tap to the top adds another $500 to the price.
can you tell me how thick the top is?
What kind of wood are the braces?
Typically I think he used Adirondack Spruce. I could be wrong though. . .
a properly acoustically treatment room would help to judge the actual frequency response during tapping, the sound of the guitar could be shaped more by the sound of the luthier's room than by experience and ears. All this if you actually want it to have a real importance in the construction of the guitar, prewar Martin didn't get tapped from what I know...
+DanielSilvestriProd he's listening to an acoustic top, not making EQ decisions on a record. He's tapping it right up against his ears and the tap tone is most likely too faint for the early reflections to even make a difference.
+CrazyCow500 have you ever worked/listened to music in a professionally treated room? tried to record an arpeggio in a room with shitty acoustics? If there's difference between recording an acoustic guitar in a garage and a professional studio then there's difference in this too, maybe tinier difference but THERE CERTAINLY IS
Yes, I have. I'm a mix engineer and I record music for a living. Yes, there are differences in recording in a bad room vs recording in a great room but in most real world situations, its usually somewhere in between. I work in an treated room. Its actually treated pretty well and I did probably 100+ hours of research along with professional consultation to get it to where is right now. With that being said, I've met and worked with plenty of people whose rooms were far less treated (some not at all) and they've been able to produce great sounding records. Matter of fact, I've sat in one of the most successful songwriter/producer's studio and it literally had sheets on the walls and the room was filled to the brim with old keyboards and vintage pianos.
I've found that a room doesn't have to be perfect, just not horrible. If the person making the judgements is familiar with the way the room sounds, sound decisions can be made.
I guarantee you that Dana has listened to enough tops that the minute differences that the room makes is negligible. He's not trying to record an award winning hit record. He's judging a piece of wood.
Plus, pickup a Bourgeois and it won't take you long to realize that Dana knows exactly what he's talking about.
And yes, I have played Dana's guitars before.
+CrazyCow500 let's make it clear... I'm discussing angels' sex here just for the sake of the discussion, I don't doubt Bourgeois guitars are awesome and as I said in my first comment "a properly acoustically treatment room would help to judge the actual frequency response during tapping", didn't mean to say that without it it's useless. Just made an observation, I own a Sigma Dm18, it's a shitty laminate guitar (solid top) but it actually sounds D18 alike to me. Without having the wood, tapping or god knows what a real Martin D18 has got, the sound signature is the same (TO ME) although the quality is infinitely inferior construction and soundwise. Taylor guitars are unique because of all the technology and working process that's behind them, not only because of wood choice. So if you want to be really anal about particulars then allow me to talk about treated rooms for luthiers :P otherwise let's just say tapping can be useful but maybe all the hype in the previews comments is a little bit over the top for what it actually is, don't you agree? :)
Guitars are like everything else. If your taste isn't built, you won't be able to differentiate anything. If you've never drank wine before, you probably wouldn't be able to distinguish between two different types and would have no idea what a sommelier was talking about. Yet he/she might be able to go as far as name the region in which the grapes were produced. I have zero knowledge of lutherie so I can't say. I do know a decent guitar when I pick one up though.
For me, if someone like Dana says he can judge a piece of wood by tapping it, I believe him because I can, at least, judge a guitar by holding it and strumming it.
Also, its general consensus that these minute differences in quality only equate to about 10-15% but that 10-15% is where the connoisseur thrives. There is a whole world inside that 10-15%.
Play a Sigma and a Martin Custom in front of a regular concert goer and they won't be able to hear the difference nor will they care but put Dana in a room with someone like Richard Hoover or Bill Collings and they will probably be able to talk for hours if not days about the subtle differences in tonewood, bracing, or whether or not hot hide glue makes a difference.
So yes, for someone that doesn't build guitars and only plays them, sometimes it might seem over the top. But its interesting none the less to see how these artisans arrive to their final masterpieces.
Would be great to own one of his guitars but it’s out of my pay scale but if you can afford a custom guitar by all means buy one they will keep you interested where as cheap guitars lose appeal very fast
The guitar making equivalent of reflexology 😏
I wonder if when he gets it right where he wants it, he can then put a soft mold over it and let the mold dry and then cut the wood to fit the mold? I may be way off! Lol
Adam Hill every wood is different and the grain in a certain cut can even affect the sound. This guy just knows how to wring the most from every different sound board
The last 2 Braves at the bottom, why do they always go diagonally?
To support that large section of top without the x braces
Im glad for this video to show people that pre shaped braces are not scalloped. True scalloped braces are done in a manner to produce desired tones.
Man, if I could just have his ability to manipulate tools to do what he wants them to do...
Repetition and set your fears aside. That's pretty much all it takes. It can be a lot of repetitions, though.
Wouldn't be more efficient to make your braces closer to the starting point?
I didn’t know Stephen King made guitars.
like a bawse.
Could someone record the sound waves you are looking for? Other less talented ears could learn more as well as you being able to take some time off.
Wow...all this so Stairway To Heaven can be played wrong by the rich new owner.
That's hilarious.
So that means there is no place for high end guitars?
Okay, tap, tap, tap, thump, thump, what's up with that? What is a good sound or a bad sound? It would help to compare a good one to one that is not so good. When I see people put sand on a top with a speaker under it I can see how the vibration moves the sand to spots which do not vibrate. But all this tapping with no comparison doesn't really say much. If I built a top, I too could tap on it but, the sound would not tell me any thing unless I recorded the sounds then when 10 guitars were done I could cross check those which sounded good and those which did not. I have a feeling CFM could have build a few hundred before he was able to determine what was going to work.
This comment is not meant to be critical. I greatly appreciate the time you put in to this and most of all the time you invest to get musicians great guitars.
That,s right, just tapping with Your nails and it will show up when the finish is put on. Yea, keep tapping on.
What I don't understand is that these folks are trying to recreate the sound vintage Martins. Well guess what Martin does my voice their tops. If you watch how they scallop their tops it's just shave and move on to the next top
You nailed it. All this "voicing" fetish-talk is nothing but ritualized self-delusion. Note how vague and un-specific his explanations and justifications actually are: it all sounds like voodoo acoustics to me.
Have you played one of these? They are like butter...I’d take a bourgeois over a vintage Martin any day. I played a 50’s model Martin and a brand new bourgeois back to back and there’s no comparison. Holy crap this man knows how to make a good guitar
This is how I voice my tops , the video doesn’t pick up the differences you can actually hear & see in real life, he will be going to a target flex in the top that he would’ve worked out over the years with trial & error & with the tapping he will be shaving the braces until it vibrates a certain way , I call it the double vibration when you hear the initial thud from hitting it then you get a continuous vibration after the initial thud so your actually getting two vibrational frequencies from one tap this is what makes the guitar have sustain & have more colour in notes aswell as making it more responsive
He and Collings and SCGC are doing exactly what they copied from Martin, but they are spending more time and build to more exacting specs and a finer level of fit and finish. And correspondingly you pay much more.
@@ramonburchell6366 I’ve heard the double vibration also. Does it make a big difference? Probably not but it just adds that sparkle to the completed guitars’ sound.
Every luthier has to have a gimmick to help justify their exorbitant prices.
He puts on a good show.
Good marketing…. They partnered with Eastman for an “affordable” line made in China with tops from the US. Not saying they aren’t quality instruments, I’m banging on a Chinese I Phone right now…. 3K seems like a tough sell considering what’s available in that price range from the US ….
@@terryhanes4544 Les Paul once said "People listen with heir eyes"...
There is a class of people who listen with their wallets and are convinced that the expensive guitar will sound proportionally better with it's higher price tag. Bourgeois has discovered that there is "one born every minute" and he makes these song and dance videos so he can take full advantage of them. At that level it becomes a matter of dogmatic faith and no one could convince these suckers that the guitar they spent an arm and a leg for doesn't sound any better than a guitar built of comparable materials without the hype, video demonstrations and higher price tag. You would do better trying to persuade religious fanatics that their particular brand of faith hasn't found the true way to heaven when they die.
I say good luck to him for "tapping" into a guitar gold mine market of gullible buyers...
I'm sure when he makes these silly videos that he considers what the dollar value of every tap of his finger on every piece of wood is worth to him financially.
So, one guy does all the soundboards? We don't think so. We have progressed beyond these quaint methods, but traditions rears its ugly haid.
First tap to second tap, no difference. Nodal scmodal. The myths continue. How quaint.