As a general rule of thumb it is said you need 25w per m3 of room space. If you decided to go with ir panels, I would say you need at least double that to give you a chance of actually heating the room up in a reasonable time. Maybe triple would do it. Basically oversize the system. I'm guessing only the main branded panels actually work as they are claimed to, but of course, they are expensive.
Not meaning to sound harsh but you didn't do your research particularly well :P Our sitting room came out at 1.1 kW but I thought blow that and am having fitted 2 x 800W panels for better zone control and overall energy output. Will report in if it's been an utter waste of time (probably when it gets colder as they are about maintained sustained comfortable temp not a burst of hot temperature). Unlike your room currently we're going to have a lot of soft furnishing that will heat up so may impact heat retention. Your panels would be great above a sofa on an angle or double bed to give direct heat where people need it.
@@Space-O-2001 you're right, I made a massive assumption with the size and thought it would be more than fine. I done a loft conversion previously that wasn't that dissimilar to what I've built here, I rarely had to put the heating on upstairs in that house. I just thought as I put more insulation in this and I made sure it was air tight that I wouldn't need much heating at all. Lesson learnt. Fingers crossed your set up does the job 👍
I was loaned a 600w panel to compare with a quartz tube patio heater. The aim was to find the cheapest temporary heating while I renovate my house. The long-term plan was GSH or heat pump, but that has since changed. The panel was effective at 2m but took too long to heat the room. The patio heater, on the other hand, was noticeably warm at the same distance and output within one minute. The temperature in the same 130sqft room reached 60F within 15 minutes. Patio heaters won on everything except appearance. I have since used patio heaters in three rooms for two years and, comparing energy bills with two friends, found I have the lowest total cost. That is without including equipment cost and depreciation. My situation is probably different from most. I only need to heat the room I am in and I like to dress appropriately for that time of year. The speed of patio heaters means I can heat rooms as I need to use them. This lifestyle may not work for the average family.
That's interesting to know, so the quartz heaters use short wave/near infrared are better 🤔 the ones in pub gardens always seemed decent. Maybe I can find a half decent looking one to put up on the ceiling
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I wondered if I could fix these wall mounted heaters upside-down on a ceiling, but decided against it on reading on-line warnings that a clearance of at least 18 inches is recommended. On measuring the heat radiated from the rear of one operating at 600w for 5 hours, I found it to be 80c. I don’t regard that as much of a problem, but I will make sure power sockets are at a safe distance. There are slim models designed to hang from the ceiling, but they seem unreasonably expensive to me. The circular types intended for outside covered areas are much better value. Unfortunately, they standout like a sore thumb and may not pass the wife/partner test. If you want to try out a tube heater on the cheap, take a look on eBay. Some are currently offered at insanely low prices. Delivery times are long and I suspect they will be coming directly from China. They may also be seconds. There is also an issue with light output. The opaque quartz tubes provide a pleasant orange glow, but I have two with single clear glass tubes that dip further into the visible light range and can be annoying at full power. You will probably be OK with the triple tube oval or oblong models. These tend to be the cheapest and no great loss if you don’t like this type of heater.
I would try it but I'm going to sell the unopened ones. I think they would struggle to do anything really. You definitely need an oversized system for these things
I fared heaters only heat people in room etc not air temp so you only put it on when you are using the room . So running it in an empty room is nor necessary. Info all on line to corroborate this 💕
That was mega disappointing! Your comment below about electric boilers is spot on, they are massively expensive to run. You also talked about your set up for the house in the future. I'd also recommend getting the largest battery that you can afford. Once the water is heated up that battery will power you for the evening. You can also take advantage of price drops if your supplier has them (I use Agile Octopus) to charge the battery from the grid in case there's not going to be much sun the following day.
I'll see how much money we have left at the end for a battery set up. I was hoping they would come down in price more but then again everything is just going up in price these days 😂
FINALLY a review where SOMEONE tests the heat coming off the back of these! I have uPVC cladding on the walls of my outbuilding gym and was considering an IR bar heater but was told it would be too hot and to get the panels instead but not ONE company will tell me how hot these things get at the back. My gym is 5.6m x 4.7m and was after putting 2x 1kw panel heaters in but considering 350w gets to 25 degrees on the back I will NOT be risking what 1kw will get to! Air con was my next option to be honest, you can get a self install one which seem to be pretty easy to put up if you are DIY inclined (I will be getting quotes from companies!) Ideally id have loved the IR solution as it is supposed to heat you directly within seconds so I could have just shoved both on as soon as I went in my gym (only in there for an hour daily) and switch them off when I left as I no longer need to heat that room but it seems like they are not suitable for uPVC cladding! So ill be pre-heating the gym with the air con unit instead, its well insulated so hopefully it will pre-heat for 40ish mins before I go in then I can switch it off and it will stay warm so hopefully it will use roughly the same amount of electric! Bonus of a dehumidifyer and also cooling function in the summer too! :) Thank you so much, I have honestly been about 34 hours into my research for my gym heating solution now (over the Christmas 2023 break so cant just ring companies to ask them questions) and your video has sealed the deal - air con it is!
With the room loaded with furniture and wall coverings all those items would absorb the energy and emit heat the heat to warm the room. Empty rooms don’t provide an accurate assessment. Pleas do another video when the room is set up. It would be interesting to see if the three panels can pull it off.
I was thinking of getting some infra red heaters as I thought they'd be more efficient at warming me up (not necessarily the room). I'll scrap that idea now. Good vid. Glad your back on form.
Electrical heaters are quite simple really. Most people can't accept the fact that the good old filament heating element is really as efficient as it can get, that's just physics - the eletrical engergy is being converted to the other energy in the form of heat and nothing else.
I bought three 600W panels a few years ago. I’ve found them completely useless at heating my living room. My living room is 3.5x5.5x2.5 with a 2.5x 2.1m double glazed window. They are all wall mounted and leaving them on for hours the room temperature hardly moves upwards from around 17°C. Considering the cost of these things you don’t get a good return.
I would put in electric floor heating. I have done it in the basement under laminate flooring and it is great. Mainly if you are doing tiles, which can feel cold to touch, it makes a big comfort difference
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I think you are right when used as as a primary heat source. It is no worse than the radiant heating since the efficiency of conversiin of electricity to heat is the same. I use it as the secondary heat source to increase the comfort of the 28'C surface. Gas is 4x cheaper. Heat pumps are getting close to it but still seem 30% more expensive in my weather conditions in South Ontario, Canada
Interesting video and well done for the amount of research you did, I have often wondered about them and now I Know! Luckily I am on mains gas and my underfloor wet system I installed works a treat and at a reasonable cost.
I'd like to think some of them do work, but the ones I got won't work for me at least 🤦♂️ I do wonder what form of heating everyone will have in the future though
I have one or these panels,it works very well,as other commentators have said ,it’s a different kind of heat,if your used to piping hot radiators it takes a bit of getting used too,and don’t forget their maintenance free.
Feels like you might be under specced there - I think it's 1kW for 10m squared floor area of 14 m cubed room volume. Might be that once you have that lodge up to temp it will work OK, it will just take a while to get there, but you have good insulation so it might be fine. One guide I saw reckoned 1.68kW of electric heating would be required for 12 meters squared of floor space with insulated cavity walls, with three of them being external. Your mileage will inevitably vary!
Yeah I did undersized it as I kind of planned to have a combination of heating sources. I think maybe I'd need to triple the size for it to maybe work? I don't fancy taking the gamble right now though
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT it would take up a tonne of space too. Once you're in there, living in it and all the rest you might find it's not too bad, but it is a risk and what with the hold cutting I can appreciate that's probably a risk too far!!
It's probably a little late to comment but, 300w panels are better suited to a small bathroom. Your room probably needed two 750w panels and the slopping walls were to perfect locations for IR panels.
Hey. Do you have any panels yourself? I had a chat with a Chinese manufacturer of these types of panels a few weeks back and they said they only work in close proximity so having them over a meter away makes them useless
I agree with this. Straight away I thought you'd need at least 2x 700W panels. 300W would only be worth using in a small bathroom or box room. I've got one I've been using for a month now. I was using a 1.8KW ceramic fan heater in the room it has replaced. There are significant caveats with these panel heaters which make them a product for niche applications. They are best placed to cover an area in which you are mostly static. I have mine about my desk position in my office which covers being sat at the desk and stood up at a work bench next to it. I have 2.4M high ceilings so you do feel the heat very nicely. Once you get about 2 metres away you won't feel much at all. Heating the surfaces is greatly dependant on how long the panel is on for. It needs to be on for most of the time (even on low) for any surface to warm instead of cooling again due to convection as you pointed out. That is one of the reasons I got one....I was fed up with the desk and things like the keyboard/mouse being painfully cold even if the room was warm. The real proof is that our cats have moved into that room and favour it over any other room in the house now! In summary, in the right location for the right type of usage I think they can be great. But they are not likely to replace a whole house heating system. You could do that but you would need a hell of a lot of panels. Still more stats to gather on my costs but so far compared to my ceramic heater the panel is far, far cheaper to run.
We’re about to fit 2 700w ceiling hangers, I’ll let you know how I get on. 300w though, good heat for a small bathroom, but needing a rad for more constant background warmth. IMHO
@@YouTellemFrosk Something to remember, the panels heat objects that then emanate heat, but the air is still cold. I am debating at getting them in a conservatory and a garden room.
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECTI do have panels. The warmth is like sitting under the sun. You will feel warmer from the inside. Eventually, it will heat up the room too, but will take a while so install it where the waves can bounce around to maximize the area those waves can travel. Bodies of water that sit near the source will also absorb the heat and store it. It is much harder to heat up an empty room vs a room with some plants or furniture.
Klarstein claim to design in Germany and have their designs manufactured abroad (mainly China) often they design the case around a pre-designed set of internal workings. Spares for Klarstein are virtually impossible to get hold of, so unless the product is basically disposable and of a value easily written off they are a buyer beware brand.
When mounted at the ceiling those panels become about 20C hotter. Therefore at least 20% more ir-radiation. Further it takes time to heat up a cold room. 900 watts seem a bit too little for your room though.
I thought I'd get away with less Watts cause of the amount of insulation and I'm pretty much airtight. Now I know it doesn't work like that 🙄 I think if I went for 3 x 800w panels it might be OK 🤷♂️
@@streamer6646 no, I didn't want to open the other 2 boxes as I plan to sell them plus I didn't want to put holes in the ceiling. One day I might get the 800w ones but for now I'll make do with the towel rad and the portable gas burner I have. I'll be living in the house next year so heating the lodge won't really matter as much
Nevertheless it takes time to heat up a cold room from 10C to 20C. Also when well insulated. The walls, the floor, the ceiling, the furniture all have to heat up before you feel comfortable in the room. After that depending on the insulation you have to maintain that level with on/off operation of the panels.
You need the right Watts for the heat, i have 720w which easily warms a room about 3x3... yours are too small. I had an extension made and it was freezing but if i put the heating on it heats the whole house as well which has no heating issues. I use a IR Heater and it works for me.
Yeah bigger panels might work. How's your electric bill with them? Someone mentioned in the comments they don't turn theirs on anymore cause it's so expensive
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT sorry if I didn't watch the whole video and you already know this but, IR panels do not heat up the air , they work like the sun so you yourself, furniture,walls etc gets warmer. You rather take 450*2 than one 900 if the room is long as it will "heat the spot". Imagine the sun behind a wall that blocks the wind, the temperature outside is still the same but the feeling of no wind makes you warmer. You should in theory be much better off with black walls. An average good insulation would require somewhere between 80-120 per square meter. You need to be aware that the air might drop 1-3 degrees but the floor, walls, ceiling etc will be warmer and therefore compared to Electric Heating alternative's it's cheaper.
I was looking to switch to infrared panels because I wanted to remove the dry heat from gas heaters, and I kept hearing how much more energy efficient they are. However, the more I look into it the more it seems like to get these to work you need way more wattage to heat your entire home than your conventional gas heater, which in my eyes makes infrared pointless. I appreciate the video. I think in my basement I'm going to install heated floors and see how well that does and go from there.
Yeah it does seem you need to oversize and defeat the object of the whole thing. It's a shame the patio heater type ones don't look better, someone in the comments said he uses them unconventionally in some of his rooms and they work well
Infrared heaters for the whole house would only make sense if you have solar panels and batteries. Even then, the investment may take a very long time to pay back the initial investment. I use infrared as a temporary solution to give me time to find a long-term solution. I'm currently looking into air-to-air heating as I don't like wet heating systems. Unfortunately, with the demise of GCH, there will be no 'cheap' way to heat a home.
From the little study that I did: IR panels aren't meant to heat up the home. They are meant to heat up your body and slowly heat up the stuff in the room.
I think that the temperature of the panels is not the issue. Radiant heat should be warming surfaces, or the body of a person in the zone. If distance from the ceiling was an issue, maybe use the sloping roof on one side?
I think these ones would only be good for warming your feet under a desk. You're right though, I'm sure I did say as there is nothing for them to heat up they won't work if they're that high up.
I'm currently heating my livingroom with a multistove (wood/coal). My energy cost for the whole winter (2022/23) turned out to be around €500, but I'm also looking for a cleaner way of heating. If I'd know someone who uses these IR panels, then I would definitely like to experience it before I buy it. I will also NEVER get rid of my stove... it's a solid backup.
€500 sounds OK to me, but maybe things are more expensive in the UK 🤷♂️ I'm not sure the IR panels are good for anything really. You'd be better off with a patio heater type one or just heating yourself with an electric heated jumper or something 😁
Great video. But I don't think you are giving the panels enough of a chance to prove their worth. The panels are not intended to work like (traditional) radiators, and won't perform like them. Your tests so far have too many variables that don't apply to their intended use. I suggest installing them all as you planned and testing in the real situation. I imagine they need several hours to get the surfaces around them up to temperature. Don't worry too much about the plugs. The are designed to work up to at least 52 degrees and given margins of safety will be fine way above this. Sockets fail because of electrical issues not heat. If you subsequently find they get too hot you can work out a fix. If you are really against making the holes in the ceiling, mount them on a length of 4x2 and suspend/prop this up somehow.
Thanks, it's useful to know that plugs can withstand that much heat. I filmed this over an entire day so the panel was on for around 7 hours. That last test on the flooring at 2m was set up for a couple of hours at least. A 300w panel just doesn't have enough in it to do anything and I doubt having 3 of them will make a difference. If money was no object I'd get the 3x 800w panels. I think the guideline of 25w per m3 is rubbish, you need at least double that if not triple. The towel rail is 500w and on its own it gets the whole room temperature up alot better
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I understand your position, but any heat going to that flooring is going to be lost to the surrounding cold air very quickly. If you are heating up the surroundings with other panels, you will not be losing heat so quickly. I agree maybe it won't be sufficient for what you need, but the collective effect of three panels should be far greater than three times the single panel if you see what I mean haha. I reckon your original plan was not too far off and worth investigating further.
3 panels is nearly a kilowatt. The panels heat you and not the space. Holding your hand up and comparing the feel of a 2100watt point source of heat is confusing. Set up the one panel temporarily as explained elsewhere and close off1/3rd of the room with a sheet or curtain and leave running. Then go on with other work. You can come back and walk through the cold part of the room and then into the heated area. The entire space is starting from very cold. You could always turn your fan heater on for a fast initial heat and then turn off the fan heater. 2100watts for a moment in time. Good luck 👍
@the-aiden-project Thanks, I appreciate the honest review. Trying to find good information that isn't sales hype is pretty difficult on these things. I'd come to the conclusion as another person has mentioned, that you need a really big panel, or several smaller sized ones, and I do believe they would work but need to definitely calculate the right wattage for the space to be heated. The other downside to the panels, is that if you were sitting at a desk doing work; then everything ender the desk would be cold as the desk would block the IR from heating your legs! The smaller panels you have may not go to waste, as they are so small, you could fit them under a bench in a workshop or someone that is very draughty - or might be awesome if you have chicks!
How much power do the panels draw? If they are a lot then that will also cause the heating of the plug, just like your fan heater does, thus increasing the temp even further. Perhaps if that isn't an issue, then some fire proof plaster board covering the plug behind the panel?
They're only 300w each so won't draw as much as that 2100w heater. I had considered putting some concrete board there but I think either that or the fireproof plasterboard will just heat up through conduction and I would be in the same position. I think more expensive panels have proper insulation behind to stop any heat transfer to wiring. The whole plug issue as well as me realising it wouldn't do much just convinced me not to bother
@@geoffc1862 yeah that would have been a good idea, I just got stuck in the moment and convinced myself that I was just going to put them up that day and film the whole thing rather than going out to get different switched spur back box things 😂
I want used a tiny gas radiator and it didn't instantly heat up my warehouse so I had the whole thing of ripped out, you can't beat just some fire on the floor.
Hi pal, good video. I have the same predicament coming up for my build as I’m off grid to so this video has been a great help. Looks like infa red are overhyped against what you are actually able to achieve from them. Just as a thought, did you not look into an electric boiler which you could run directly from your solar panels? If you did again I’d be interested in hearing your opinions on them. Keep up the good work👍🏻
There is certainly mixed press about the panels out there. Maybe the expensive ones work better like Herschel but I wouldn't want to pay the money to find out. Ive read up about electric boilers before and also looked at a house that had one a few years back. They are apparently super expensive to run, especially with 'wet heating' I asked the woman what her electric bill was like because of the boiler, she said it's only about £20 a month! 😂 I knew she was lying through her teeth. For the lodge it wasn't worth having an expensive set up. I have an electric shower, an electric prefilled rad and for hot water at the sinks I have a 10 ltr instant hot water heater that I will put in behind the small kitchen cabinets. My old loft coversion never got cold because of all the insulation and hardly needed any heat so as the lodge is basically a loft conversion, I won't need that much heat in there. Even a small electric heater will quickly warm up the whole space. As for the solar panels they will help with heating hot water in the main house. I'll have an air source heat pump that will warm up the underfloor heating as well as the hot water in a tank that has a back up immersion heater. When we aren't using any electric produced by the panels the system will switch on the immersion heater to take advantage of the surplus energy. Otherwise the energy just goes back into the grid. Hopefully the air source heat pump doesn't turn out to be sh** like these panels!
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT No I agree, like most things you end up paying a fortune only to find out it’s pretty sh**t in the long run with no recourse. My issue is I haven’t got the funds to build house and detached garage all in one go so my new plan is to build the garage (which is pretty big) and make that my new temporary accommodation (subject to planning and building regs etc). So I’m reluctant to want to spend a fortune on a heating system for what will essentially become a garage again later down the line. I can get by with electric shower and plug in heaters perhaps but my Mrs will put my bo****is in a vice if she can’t get hot water on demand and I’m unsure what’s best to install. Electric boiler for just hot water perhaps?? As for the main house, I’m edging towards ASHP but keep reading more stories about them not performing like they’re marketed especially in colder climates and where I am it can get mighty cold during winter! Sounds like the new “Diesel” con. Constant dilemma and decisions as to which way to go🤔🤦🏼♂️.
@Phil Garbett you wouldn't need an actual electric boiler for the hot water on demand. They are expensive and are set up to do hot water and heating. You would just need one for hot water so you could just get one like I will be fitting which is an undersink water heater. Just make sure your shower room and kitchen are next to each other. A few plug in oil rads will be good enough if it's temporary, you can even sell them afterwards or just buy second hand ones in the first place. I'm hoping the airsource heatpump will be OK with the underfloor heating, plus I'm going down the airtight route with a heat recovery ventilation system so no cold draughts coming in from outside
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT cheers for the advice. Will look forward to the videos re the ASHP and heat recovery if you do them. Good luck with everything going forward! 👍🏻 🔨
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT we have an electric flow boiler with wet underfloor. Now, our house is part 200 year old cob and stone and part 20 year old not especially good extension. Our windows, while double glazed, are horrid aluminium ones with virtually no thermal break, our external doors all need upgrading (one has daylight round it). We rarely get above 18 degrees in winter, albeit we are fine with putting on more jumpers etc. Hot water is via immersions in the tank in the loft. There's two of us and the house is a 4 bed (technically but one is tiny and another is my office) and not all rooms are heated. We are on Octopus Go and so get cheap leccy for four hours at night (amazingly our tariff is fixed until November so my average unit price over a year is something like 12.5p). We pay about £2000/year for power but come next winter I expect this to rocket up to £4-5000/year. Long term, we plan on triple glazing, upgrading doors and a heat pump: I like the look of the Samsung monoblocs as they are really compact, well supported and highly rated. It'll be expensive as I will need to have a lot of pipework done and a new tank in the loft etc (heating manifolds are in a bedroom at the front of the house as it the distribution board which is in the dining room and the meter which is on the front of the house, but that's all on the road so we'd need the unit at the back - cue expense). But even if the cost doesn't come down, it might at least be warmer for the same money spent on power.
Hi .would a 800 watt panel fixed on the ceiling above the bed be able to heat directly underneath quickly? Not worried bout heating the room just the person directly underneath. The distance from the panel to the bed below would be 5.5 feet...if so would it get too hot? According to this video.its pretty much crAp??
In theory it would work yes and it wouldn't get too hot. However, for the cost of a decent panel and a gamble that it would work for the purpose you intend it for, I'd much rather get an electric blanket. That will definitely work and it will be alot cheaper
Very informative young man! Infrared panels were my idea to replace night storage in bedrooms. Turn on to go to bed, and first thing in morning. You've informed that idea! p.s. We used to use a calor gas heater, way back in the 80's - beware they leave your walls dripping with water after as little as an hour of use. They do get you warm, though!
Hey Geoff, well you might be OK with a higher wattage panel from an expensive brand 🤷♂️ the people that have them seem to be the only ones who say it does work but there are very few of them. Maybe they just don't want to admit they wasted a load of money though. A guy in the comments said he had his whole house heated with panels but switched them off a couple of years ago because they weren't that good and it was so expensive and ended up using a calor gas fire. I haven't brought the gas fire up yet but thanks for letting me know about the moisture issue, I didn't know that could happen! I've got a dehumidifier if I need it though. Electric blankets seem to be a big thing at the moment
Tune in next week for my in depth video when I see if snowmen melt when placed in front of a small candle. Would be cheaper and safer to cover the walls and ceiling in electric blankets.
It's more like buying a freezer and complain it doesn't freeze your ice cube trays instantly. Heating a home takes about the same kilowatts no matter what source you use, but once heated it's about efficiency. IR panels are great for longevity, but not instant heat.
I bought one of these and had exactly the same experience as you - very minimal effect and not worth the money. I was only trying to heat a much smaller space as well.
Was about to buy that exact model for the home office, but seeing you sit in front of it a feel nothing means it won't work as expected. There does seem to be a lot of mis-marketing around these heaters.
Interesting. Were about to order solar panels and battery system to retrofit on our house and I was wondering about some sort of electric heating so we can reduce our dependence on gas. Was considering Infra Red heaters. I'm still undecided. You've probably already got rid of the heaters but was thinking if you ordered them online you should be able to just send them back.
I ordered them about 9 months before I even got to this point so couldn't return them 🙈😂 if you do go for them I'd definitely consider oversizing the system. 25w per m3 just isn't enough 😒
I live on the 8th floor in England, one bedroom room, the heating consumption is very high, £13 a day, it really drives me crazy, is this heater really low consumption? Can you tell me approximately how much it consumes and how many voltages it has . How to buy it ?
Hi Kia, I wouldn't recommend buying one if these, it wasn't any good. Several people who have them installed have commented and said they have high running costs. What kind of heating do you have at the moment?
That is very expensive. What type of heating are you using and are your windows double-glazed? Check out my recent reply on patio heaters. They are not pretty but can be cost-effective due to their relatively low purchase price and the way infrared heat works. You could buy of cheap model and give it a try. I heat my lounge (13ft x 10ft) on one 600w bar and find it comfortable. My electricity fix ended on 31/12/22 so I am now paying about 74% more. The most expensive day so far has been £6.57. On that day I heated a tank of water, run the washing machine twice, tumble drier once, cooked a meal in a halogen oven, and run the heater from 4pm to 1am. Most days are cheaper. You might also consider a floor-standing halogen heater. You can find them on Amazon for as little as £25. The drawback is they produce light as well as heat. I find them too bright but it might not be a problem for you.
I looked into IR panels recently as a potential alternative to electric panel heaters, but concluded that IR really only work as space heaters to "top up" an insufficient central heating system. To heat an entire home on these, it would need to be an eco build with the highest possible EPC rating ie not suitable for the vast majority of British homes.
I also had my doubts and then at what cost of energy . I cant see it heating up the structure enough as they say it would . Oh well fill in the ceiling holes :-).
From ebay. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313728727809?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=y-gn0s_stjw&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=2IneN-08Rii&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
It’s an expensive way to get 900W of heating, but presumably if you run them continuously and you’re well insulated, it will warm up eventually? Be interesting to see how they work in a room that’s closer to normal room temperature? And at least they are silent if you do need them on a lot, vs a fan heater for instance? If you can’t get a refund I’d stick them up and see?
It will take an absolute age to warm up the room as the radiation it produces won't reach any objects to heat them up. That means 70% of the energy/heat it produces is ineffective. That leaves the remaining 30% on convention heating up the air at the top of the room. It's a total waste of energy and money 🤦♂️ I will try and sell the other 2 panels though 🤫
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT all of the 900W will end up heating the room. All the energy will end up dissipated either through conduction or convection. The issue is 900W isn't enough energy to raise the temperature by 20C for example. Any electric heating source is basically 100% efficient, so you'd bet better value from a fan heater. You need phase change to increase the efficiency beyond 100% e.g. Heat pump
I bought one of those gas heaters that look like a wood burner. I was shocked at how quickly the gas was used up. I think it cost me about £100 in gas in just a matter of a couple of months. That was just lighting it on evenings when sat watching TV. It looked nice, but just too expensive to run for my liking. I sold it on Ebay after about 3 months!! Good for occasional use I guess. I also worried about the fumes from it. Although the blurb on it says it's safe, my gas engineer mate told me that I should have a window open when I was using it. Sort of defeated the object. Have you not thought about electric underfloor heating before you put the final flooring down? I don't think it's that expensive and logic tells me that any heat source should be lower down so the heat permeate upwards. But I'm not very techie!!
Oh dear, I suppose that was before gas prices went up too?! I already have the gas heater and bought it second hand for £100 (new and unused) a couple of years back, it has just been sitting in storage since. So I may as well spend abit on gas rather than even more money on an alternative heating system. Good idea with the underfloor heating, I would have considered it had the lodge not just been temporary accommodation for us. Afterwards it will be an office or guest room for the odd visitor so the gas heater or small fan heater will suffice. I was just experimenting with the panels really and didn't realise they would do so little. Hopefully I'll get the barn liveable in time for next winter 🙈
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I have friends who live in a log cabin on an airfield and he put underfloor heating in as he built the cabin. It was always relatively warm . I think he said that it wasn't that expensive to buy but it costs a bit to run. But they put in a log burner after a while which makes the cabin really lovely and cosy. However, if for occasional use, I think it would be well worth considering the roll out mat type of electric underfloor heating. I bought a mat (much smaller than you would need) for under my feet when I am working at my desk. It doesn't warm up the room much but it certainly stops the cold feet and legs when I have to sit at the desk for long lengths of time. I have often thought of doing the whole room with it. Just has to have a LOT of insulation underneath it to make sure the heat goes up and not into the floor.
@@eileengeldard323 I know the equipment doesn't necessarily cost much but I have to make a decision about where its best to spend money and when to hold back. With something that costs hundreds of thousands, if you keep spending an extra 50 quid or couple of hundred here and there it quickly adds up and before you know it you've run out of money and end up with a lovely house and no furniture, eating your dinner sitting on camping chairs 😂
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT absolutely. I'm that person. I get to thinking, oh bugger it, Ive spent £20k what's another £200. Big mistake. My budget on the last one was £20k and ended up £30k. I'm still sitting on camp chairs!! Not really ha ha.
decent infrared panels heat up a little over 200c, it's real district heat radiation..and they are densely built and heavier but functional..you can't do anything with these carbon fiber resistors.
Basically use reptile heating matts between some plastic and aluminium with bit of thermal insulation been cheaper make your own under floor heating would of been better as heat rises
I live in a 2bed mid terrace house with logicor infrared heaters absolute waste of space and money never feel warm have now switched it all off and using a portable gas heater to heat house as it’s warmer and a lot cheaper
Ah sorry to hear that, what size panels do you have? I'll be using my portable gas heater soon too, just popped a little electric heater on for the first time this evening as it goes
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT 5 X 900w and 4 X 450w was costing upto £15 a day 2020 to run in the winter don't want to think what it would cost to run them this winter if it's a cold winter
Some heat pumps come with a/c and heating with Infrared so I think your test may be lacking in some way to reflect true value of infrared heating. Infrared customer who have whole house heating infrared seem very happy over other heating sources so you must not be comparing apples to apples in your testing.
I think it may depend on panel sizes but in general you can find lots a people that arent happy with their infrared panels. Someone else recently commented that they stopped using their panels last year as it was super expensive and wasn't any good. My test just showed my panels weren't going to work for me.
Keeping with electricity, you would be best to just fit a small split air conditioning unit, especially with the decent insulation you've installed. These IR panels will never heat the room so it will always feel cold.
Interesting, I've never even considered an air conditioning unit 🤔 maybe I'll revisit this idea in the future... 2nd hand ones seem to be reasonably priced, although would that be asking for trouble?
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT If you can find a good condition split unit, you would only need to find an installer that was F-Gas registered to install. I doubt you'd save much overall though - most newer systems are pre-charged and you can prepare a lot of the installation yourself - e.g. mounting the units and getting the electrical supply ready. You should be able to achieve at least 3 kW heat output for every 1 kW of electricity, in certain conditions it'll be better than this though. Added advantage is you can use for cooling if needed in the summer when solar panels would be producing most energy.
Yeah that's an option, but I don't want to spend the money on something we're not going to permanently live in and will end up just being used as an office in the end
Hey Stephen, I think I've drawn a line under this for now. So doubt I'll be doing any more testing. I think triple the wattage may have a chance of working though. Are you thinking of getting some ir panels?
@@stephenbrickwood1602 I'm going to use the portable gas burner this winter coming and an electric fan heater as a back up. If I was to revisit this I'd get the 3x 800w panels but I've got over £100k I still need to spend on the whole build so spending £500 on new panels isn't something I really want or need to do right now. My other half is the only one bringing in money really as I only earn about £100 a month on here. Everything adds up very quickly 🤦♂️
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I in a similar situation. I think it can all make sense, building your own home. We pay a mortgage with after tax dollars here for 30 years and nobody can get sick or you sell your home. Good luck, the work will keep you fit. Hahaha Hahaha.
I didn't use the panels, they are chucked in the shed. This winter I'm using a cheap fan heater and the gas burner that I mentioned in the video. Next year we should be in the main house.
I'm sure they heat up any solid objects basically, including people. I'm pretty sure the system needs to be a higher wattage for it to get close to working 🤷♂️ hey ho
Yeah they're supposed to heat people and objects. Unfortunately the small panels can't heat anything if its more than a meter away though. Maybe a higher wattage panel might do better 🤷♂️
Lmao, I was confused at beginning trying to fiquire out what language he was speaking, then I could understand him. That first sentence was so funny lol
I had 3 of them so 900w and the rad which is 800w off the top of my head. In theory I thought that was enough for the size of room with the amount of insulation I have. I was wrong though 😂
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT since radiant doesn't heat up air , only objects ..it's important the radiation hits the objects ..closer the better ..the radiation decreases very quickly with distance according to the "inverse square law"
@@relaxingnature2617 Are u saying individual panels need that higher wattage? So the energy it puts out has to be high enough to overcome the distance, as I believe there is a formulae that calculates the amount of energy lost per meter. Then each unit has to put out that amount, not that amount total over so many units.
As a general rule of thumb it is said you need 25w per m3 of room space. If you decided to go with ir panels, I would say you need at least double that to give you a chance of actually heating the room up in a reasonable time. Maybe triple would do it. Basically oversize the system. I'm guessing only the main branded panels actually work as they are claimed to, but of course, they are expensive.
Not meaning to sound harsh but you didn't do your research particularly well :P
Our sitting room came out at 1.1 kW but I thought blow that and am having fitted 2 x 800W panels for better zone control and overall energy output. Will report in if it's been an utter waste of time (probably when it gets colder as they are about maintained sustained comfortable temp not a burst of hot temperature). Unlike your room currently we're going to have a lot of soft furnishing that will heat up so may impact heat retention. Your panels would be great above a sofa on an angle or double bed to give direct heat where people need it.
@@Space-O-2001 you're right, I made a massive assumption with the size and thought it would be more than fine. I done a loft conversion previously that wasn't that dissimilar to what I've built here, I rarely had to put the heating on upstairs in that house. I just thought as I put more insulation in this and I made sure it was air tight that I wouldn't need much heating at all. Lesson learnt. Fingers crossed your set up does the job 👍
@@Space-O-2001 how have they gotten on?
@@OllieMartinGamer Ask me when it's colder :P
@@Space-O-2001 haha good point
Well done for thinking to test them before installing! 👏
I was gonna put one in my downstairs cloakroom but had my doubts.
I was loaned a 600w panel to compare with a quartz tube patio heater. The aim was to find the cheapest temporary heating while I renovate my house. The long-term plan was GSH or heat pump, but that has since changed. The panel was effective at 2m but took too long to heat the room. The patio heater, on the other hand, was noticeably warm at the same distance and output within one minute. The temperature in the same 130sqft room reached 60F within 15 minutes. Patio heaters won on everything except appearance. I have since used patio heaters in three rooms for two years and, comparing energy bills with two friends, found I have the lowest total cost. That is without including equipment cost and depreciation. My situation is probably different from most. I only need to heat the room I am in and I like to dress appropriately for that time of year. The speed of patio heaters means I can heat rooms as I need to use them. This lifestyle may not work for the average family.
That's interesting to know, so the quartz heaters use short wave/near infrared are better 🤔 the ones in pub gardens always seemed decent. Maybe I can find a half decent looking one to put up on the ceiling
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I wondered if I could fix these wall mounted heaters upside-down on a ceiling, but decided against it on reading on-line warnings that a clearance of at least 18 inches is recommended. On measuring the heat radiated from the rear of one operating at 600w for 5 hours, I found it to be 80c. I don’t regard that as much of a problem, but I will make sure power sockets are at a safe distance. There are slim models designed to hang from the ceiling, but they seem unreasonably expensive to me. The circular types intended for outside covered areas are much better value. Unfortunately, they standout like a sore thumb and may not pass the wife/partner test. If you want to try out a tube heater on the cheap, take a look on eBay. Some are currently offered at insanely low prices. Delivery times are long and I suspect they will be coming directly from China. They may also be seconds. There is also an issue with light output. The opaque quartz tubes provide a pleasant orange glow, but I have two with single clear glass tubes that dip further into the visible light range and can be annoying at full power. You will probably be OK with the triple tube oval or oblong models. These tend to be the cheapest and no great loss if you don’t like this type of heater.
As an electrician - I would suggest running all three heaters for 24hrs & seeing what the ambient room temp becomes . . .
I would try it but I'm going to sell the unopened ones. I think they would struggle to do anything really. You definitely need an oversized system for these things
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT But running the for 24 hrs just to heat up ones room, makes them very problematic.
@@fiazmultani agreed, especially when they're supposed to provide almost instant heat 🤷♂️
I fared heaters only heat people in room etc not air temp so you only put it on when you are using the room . So running it in an empty room is nor necessary. Info all on line to corroborate this 💕
That was mega disappointing! Your comment below about electric boilers is spot on, they are massively expensive to run. You also talked about your set up for the house in the future. I'd also recommend getting the largest battery that you can afford. Once the water is heated up that battery will power you for the evening. You can also take advantage of price drops if your supplier has them (I use Agile Octopus) to charge the battery from the grid in case there's not going to be much sun the following day.
I'll see how much money we have left at the end for a battery set up. I was hoping they would come down in price more but then again everything is just going up in price these days 😂
The video and the comments,are the most informative I've seen so far, well done.
Thanks mate 👍
FINALLY a review where SOMEONE tests the heat coming off the back of these! I have uPVC cladding on the walls of my outbuilding gym and was considering an IR bar heater but was told it would be too hot and to get the panels instead but not ONE company will tell me how hot these things get at the back. My gym is 5.6m x 4.7m and was after putting 2x 1kw panel heaters in but considering 350w gets to 25 degrees on the back I will NOT be risking what 1kw will get to!
Air con was my next option to be honest, you can get a self install one which seem to be pretty easy to put up if you are DIY inclined (I will be getting quotes from companies!)
Ideally id have loved the IR solution as it is supposed to heat you directly within seconds so I could have just shoved both on as soon as I went in my gym (only in there for an hour daily) and switch them off when I left as I no longer need to heat that room but it seems like they are not suitable for uPVC cladding!
So ill be pre-heating the gym with the air con unit instead, its well insulated so hopefully it will pre-heat for 40ish mins before I go in then I can switch it off and it will stay warm so hopefully it will use roughly the same amount of electric! Bonus of a dehumidifyer and also cooling function in the summer too! :)
Thank you so much, I have honestly been about 34 hours into my research for my gym heating solution now (over the Christmas 2023 break so cant just ring companies to ask them questions) and your video has sealed the deal - air con it is!
Yeah, a mini split seems to be the better solution 🙌
Herschel panels make you lovely and warm. They are expensive but work well.
You were a lot of fun to watch mate. Sorry they didn’t work but you helped me save the money :). Let’s Go!!!
With the room loaded with furniture and wall coverings all those items would absorb the energy and emit heat the heat to warm the room. Empty rooms don’t provide an accurate assessment. Pleas do another video when the room is set up. It would be interesting to see if the three panels can pull it off.
I was thinking of getting some infra red heaters as I thought they'd be more efficient at warming me up (not necessarily the room). I'll scrap that idea now. Good vid. Glad your back on form.
You might be OK if you get expensive ones and oversize them 🤷♂️
Electrical heaters are quite simple really. Most people can't accept the fact that the good old filament heating element is really as efficient as it can get, that's just physics - the eletrical engergy is being converted to the other energy in the form of heat and nothing else.
I bought three 600W panels a few years ago. I’ve found them completely useless at heating my living room. My living room is 3.5x5.5x2.5 with a 2.5x 2.1m double glazed window. They are all wall mounted and leaving them on for hours the room temperature hardly moves upwards from around 17°C. Considering the cost of these things you don’t get a good return.
Can you feel any warmth from them when you stand more than a meter away?
I would put in electric floor heating. I have done it in the basement under laminate flooring and it is great. Mainly if you are doing tiles, which can feel cold to touch, it makes a big comfort difference
I've always thought that electric underfloor heating is a bit pricey to run, have you found that at all?
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I think you are right when used as as a primary heat source. It is no worse than the radiant heating since the efficiency of conversiin of electricity to heat is the same. I use it as the secondary heat source to increase the comfort of the 28'C surface. Gas is 4x cheaper. Heat pumps are getting close to it but still seem 30% more expensive in my weather conditions in South Ontario, Canada
Interesting video and well done for the amount of research you did, I have often wondered about them and now I Know! Luckily I am on mains gas and my underfloor wet system I installed works a treat and at a reasonable cost.
I'd like to think some of them do work, but the ones I got won't work for me at least 🤦♂️ I do wonder what form of heating everyone will have in the future though
I have one or these panels,it works very well,as other commentators have said ,it’s a different kind of heat,if your used to piping hot radiators it takes a bit of getting used too,and don’t forget their maintenance free.
Plug can just go behind the panel, no worries. Have been installing these for years and years...
Feels like you might be under specced there - I think it's 1kW for 10m squared floor area of 14 m cubed room volume. Might be that once you have that lodge up to temp it will work OK, it will just take a while to get there, but you have good insulation so it might be fine. One guide I saw reckoned 1.68kW of electric heating would be required for 12 meters squared of floor space with insulated cavity walls, with three of them being external. Your mileage will inevitably vary!
Yeah I did undersized it as I kind of planned to have a combination of heating sources. I think maybe I'd need to triple the size for it to maybe work? I don't fancy taking the gamble right now though
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT it would take up a tonne of space too. Once you're in there, living in it and all the rest you might find it's not too bad, but it is a risk and what with the hold cutting I can appreciate that's probably a risk too far!!
It's probably a little late to comment but, 300w panels are better suited to a small bathroom. Your room probably needed two 750w panels and the slopping walls were to perfect locations for IR panels.
Hey. Do you have any panels yourself? I had a chat with a Chinese manufacturer of these types of panels a few weeks back and they said they only work in close proximity so having them over a meter away makes them useless
I agree with this. Straight away I thought you'd need at least 2x 700W panels. 300W would only be worth using in a small bathroom or box room. I've got one I've been using for a month now. I was using a 1.8KW ceramic fan heater in the room it has replaced. There are significant caveats with these panel heaters which make them a product for niche applications. They are best placed to cover an area in which you are mostly static. I have mine about my desk position in my office which covers being sat at the desk and stood up at a work bench next to it. I have 2.4M high ceilings so you do feel the heat very nicely. Once you get about 2 metres away you won't feel much at all. Heating the surfaces is greatly dependant on how long the panel is on for. It needs to be on for most of the time (even on low) for any surface to warm instead of cooling again due to convection as you pointed out. That is one of the reasons I got one....I was fed up with the desk and things like the keyboard/mouse being painfully cold even if the room was warm. The real proof is that our cats have moved into that room and favour it over any other room in the house now!
In summary, in the right location for the right type of usage I think they can be great. But they are not likely to replace a whole house heating system. You could do that but you would need a hell of a lot of panels. Still more stats to gather on my costs but so far compared to my ceramic heater the panel is far, far cheaper to run.
We’re about to fit 2 700w ceiling hangers, I’ll let you know how I get on. 300w though, good heat for a small bathroom, but needing a rad for more constant background warmth. IMHO
@@YouTellemFrosk Something to remember, the panels heat objects that then emanate heat, but the air is still cold. I am debating at getting them in a conservatory and a garden room.
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECTI do have panels. The warmth is like sitting under the sun. You will feel warmer from the inside. Eventually, it will heat up the room too, but will take a while so install it where the waves can bounce around to maximize the area those waves can travel. Bodies of water that sit near the source will also absorb the heat and store it. It is much harder to heat up an empty room vs a room with some plants or furniture.
Klarstein claim to design in Germany and have their designs manufactured abroad (mainly China) often they design the case around a pre-designed set of internal workings. Spares for Klarstein are virtually impossible to get hold of, so unless the product is basically disposable and of a value easily written off they are a buyer beware brand.
When mounted at the ceiling those panels become about 20C hotter. Therefore at least 20% more ir-radiation. Further it takes time to heat up a cold room. 900 watts seem a bit too little for your room though.
I thought I'd get away with less Watts cause of the amount of insulation and I'm pretty much airtight. Now I know it doesn't work like that 🙄 I think if I went for 3 x 800w panels it might be OK 🤷♂️
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT The better the insulation the less energy is needed. True. Did you try these 3 300 watt panels at the ceiling?
@@streamer6646 no, I didn't want to open the other 2 boxes as I plan to sell them plus I didn't want to put holes in the ceiling. One day I might get the 800w ones but for now I'll make do with the towel rad and the portable gas burner I have. I'll be living in the house next year so heating the lodge won't really matter as much
Nevertheless it takes time to heat up a cold room from 10C to 20C. Also when well insulated. The walls, the floor, the ceiling, the furniture all have to heat up before you feel comfortable in the room. After that depending on the insulation you have to maintain that level with on/off operation of the panels.
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT Ok. I use ir-heating in my house and find it awesome. Very comfortable.
You need the right Watts for the heat, i have 720w which easily warms a room about 3x3... yours are too small. I had an extension made and it was freezing but if i put the heating on it heats the whole house as well which has no heating issues. I use a IR Heater and it works for me.
Yeah bigger panels might work. How's your electric bill with them? Someone mentioned in the comments they don't turn theirs on anymore cause it's so expensive
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT sorry if I didn't watch the whole video and you already know this but,
IR panels do not heat up the air , they work like the sun so you yourself, furniture,walls etc gets warmer.
You rather take 450*2 than one 900 if the room is long as it will "heat the spot".
Imagine the sun behind a wall that blocks the wind, the temperature outside is still the same but the feeling of no wind makes you warmer. You should in theory be much better off with black walls.
An average good insulation would require somewhere between 80-120 per square meter. You need to be aware that the air might drop 1-3 degrees but the floor, walls, ceiling etc will be warmer and therefore compared to Electric Heating alternative's it's cheaper.
I was looking to switch to infrared panels because I wanted to remove the dry heat from gas heaters, and I kept hearing how much more energy efficient they are.
However, the more I look into it the more it seems like to get these to work you need way more wattage to heat your entire home than your conventional gas heater, which in my eyes makes infrared pointless.
I appreciate the video. I think in my basement I'm going to install heated floors and see how well that does and go from there.
Yeah it does seem you need to oversize and defeat the object of the whole thing. It's a shame the patio heater type ones don't look better, someone in the comments said he uses them unconventionally in some of his rooms and they work well
Infrared heaters for the whole house would only make sense if you have solar panels and batteries. Even then, the investment may take a very long time to pay back the initial investment. I use infrared as a temporary solution to give me time to find a long-term solution. I'm currently looking into air-to-air heating as I don't like wet heating systems. Unfortunately, with the demise of GCH, there will be no 'cheap' way to heat a home.
From the little study that I did: IR panels aren't meant to heat up the home. They are meant to heat up your body and slowly heat up the stuff in the room.
I think that the temperature of the panels is not the issue. Radiant heat should be warming surfaces, or the body of a person in the zone. If distance from the ceiling was an issue, maybe use the sloping roof on one side?
I think these ones would only be good for warming your feet under a desk. You're right though, I'm sure I did say as there is nothing for them to heat up they won't work if they're that high up.
I'm currently heating my livingroom with a multistove (wood/coal). My energy cost for the whole winter (2022/23) turned out to be around €500, but I'm also looking for a cleaner way of heating. If I'd know someone who uses these IR panels, then I would definitely like to experience it before I buy it.
I will also NEVER get rid of my stove... it's a solid backup.
€500 sounds OK to me, but maybe things are more expensive in the UK 🤷♂️ I'm not sure the IR panels are good for anything really. You'd be better off with a patio heater type one or just heating yourself with an electric heated jumper or something 😁
Great video. But I don't think you are giving the panels enough of a chance to prove their worth. The panels are not intended to work like (traditional) radiators, and won't perform like them. Your tests so far have too many variables that don't apply to their intended use. I suggest installing them all as you planned and testing in the real situation. I imagine they need several hours to get the surfaces around them up to temperature. Don't worry too much about the plugs. The are designed to work up to at least 52 degrees and given margins of safety will be fine way above this. Sockets fail because of electrical issues not heat. If you subsequently find they get too hot you can work out a fix. If you are really against making the holes in the ceiling, mount them on a length of 4x2 and suspend/prop this up somehow.
Thanks, it's useful to know that plugs can withstand that much heat. I filmed this over an entire day so the panel was on for around 7 hours. That last test on the flooring at 2m was set up for a couple of hours at least. A 300w panel just doesn't have enough in it to do anything and I doubt having 3 of them will make a difference. If money was no object I'd get the 3x 800w panels. I think the guideline of 25w per m3 is rubbish, you need at least double that if not triple. The towel rail is 500w and on its own it gets the whole room temperature up alot better
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I understand your position, but any heat going to that flooring is going to be lost to the surrounding cold air very quickly. If you are heating up the surroundings with other panels, you will not be losing heat so quickly. I agree maybe it won't be sufficient for what you need, but the collective effect of three panels should be far greater than three times the single panel if you see what I mean haha. I reckon your original plan was not too far off and worth investigating further.
3 panels is nearly a kilowatt.
The panels heat you and not the space.
Holding your hand up and comparing the feel of a 2100watt point source of heat is confusing.
Set up the one panel temporarily as explained elsewhere and close off1/3rd of the room with a sheet or curtain and leave running. Then go on with other work.
You can come back and walk through the cold part of the room and then into the heated area.
The entire space is starting from very cold.
You could always turn your fan heater on for a fast initial heat and then turn off the fan heater. 2100watts for a moment in time.
Good luck 👍
After the test you can check the plug temperature.
@the-aiden-project Thanks, I appreciate the honest review. Trying to find good information that isn't sales hype is pretty difficult on these things.
I'd come to the conclusion as another person has mentioned, that you need a really big panel, or several smaller sized ones, and I do believe they would work but need to definitely calculate the right wattage for the space to be heated.
The other downside to the panels, is that if you were sitting at a desk doing work; then everything ender the desk would be cold as the desk would block the IR from heating your legs!
The smaller panels you have may not go to waste, as they are so small, you could fit them under a bench in a workshop or someone that is very draughty - or might be awesome if you have chicks!
How much power do the panels draw? If they are a lot then that will also cause the heating of the plug, just like your fan heater does, thus increasing the temp even further. Perhaps if that isn't an issue, then some fire proof plaster board covering the plug behind the panel?
They're only 300w each so won't draw as much as that 2100w heater. I had considered putting some concrete board there but I think either that or the fireproof plasterboard will just heat up through conduction and I would be in the same position. I think more expensive panels have proper insulation behind to stop any heat transfer to wiring. The whole plug issue as well as me realising it wouldn't do much just convinced me not to bother
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT My thought when you were in dithering mode on the plugs....Cut off the plug. Remove the socket and wire directly in....?
@@geoffc1862 yeah that would have been a good idea, I just got stuck in the moment and convinced myself that I was just going to put them up that day and film the whole thing rather than going out to get different switched spur back box things 😂
I want used a tiny gas radiator and it didn't instantly heat up my warehouse so I had the whole thing of ripped out, you can't beat just some fire on the floor.
😂🤣
Hi pal, good video. I have the same predicament coming up for my build as I’m off grid to so this video has been a great help. Looks like infa red are overhyped against what you are actually able to achieve from them. Just as a thought, did you not look into an electric boiler which you could run directly from your solar panels? If you did again I’d be interested in hearing your opinions on them. Keep up the good work👍🏻
There is certainly mixed press about the panels out there. Maybe the expensive ones work better like Herschel but I wouldn't want to pay the money to find out. Ive read up about electric boilers before and also looked at a house that had one a few years back. They are apparently super expensive to run, especially with 'wet heating' I asked the woman what her electric bill was like because of the boiler, she said it's only about £20 a month! 😂 I knew she was lying through her teeth. For the lodge it wasn't worth having an expensive set up. I have an electric shower, an electric prefilled rad and for hot water at the sinks I have a 10 ltr instant hot water heater that I will put in behind the small kitchen cabinets. My old loft coversion never got cold because of all the insulation and hardly needed any heat so as the lodge is basically a loft conversion, I won't need that much heat in there. Even a small electric heater will quickly warm up the whole space. As for the solar panels they will help with heating hot water in the main house. I'll have an air source heat pump that will warm up the underfloor heating as well as the hot water in a tank that has a back up immersion heater. When we aren't using any electric produced by the panels the system will switch on the immersion heater to take advantage of the surplus energy. Otherwise the energy just goes back into the grid. Hopefully the air source heat pump doesn't turn out to be sh** like these panels!
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT No I agree, like most things you end up paying a fortune only to find out it’s pretty sh**t in the long run with no recourse. My issue is I haven’t got the funds to build house and detached garage all in one go so my new plan is to build the garage (which is pretty big) and make that my new temporary accommodation (subject to planning and building regs etc). So I’m reluctant to want to spend a fortune on a heating system for what will essentially become a garage again later down the line. I can get by with electric shower and plug in heaters perhaps but my Mrs will put my bo****is in a vice if she can’t get hot water on demand and I’m unsure what’s best to install. Electric boiler for just hot water perhaps??
As for the main house, I’m edging towards ASHP but keep reading more stories about them not performing like they’re marketed especially in colder climates and where I am it can get mighty cold during winter! Sounds like the new “Diesel” con. Constant dilemma and decisions as to which way to go🤔🤦🏼♂️.
@Phil Garbett you wouldn't need an actual electric boiler for the hot water on demand. They are expensive and are set up to do hot water and heating. You would just need one for hot water so you could just get one like I will be fitting which is an undersink water heater. Just make sure your shower room and kitchen are next to each other. A few plug in oil rads will be good enough if it's temporary, you can even sell them afterwards or just buy second hand ones in the first place.
I'm hoping the airsource heatpump will be OK with the underfloor heating, plus I'm going down the airtight route with a heat recovery ventilation system so no cold draughts coming in from outside
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT cheers for the advice. Will look forward to the videos re the ASHP and heat recovery if you do them. Good luck with everything going forward! 👍🏻 🔨
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT we have an electric flow boiler with wet underfloor. Now, our house is part 200 year old cob and stone and part 20 year old not especially good extension. Our windows, while double glazed, are horrid aluminium ones with virtually no thermal break, our external doors all need upgrading (one has daylight round it). We rarely get above 18 degrees in winter, albeit we are fine with putting on more jumpers etc. Hot water is via immersions in the tank in the loft. There's two of us and the house is a 4 bed (technically but one is tiny and another is my office) and not all rooms are heated. We are on Octopus Go and so get cheap leccy for four hours at night (amazingly our tariff is fixed until November so my average unit price over a year is something like 12.5p). We pay about £2000/year for power but come next winter I expect this to rocket up to £4-5000/year. Long term, we plan on triple glazing, upgrading doors and a heat pump: I like the look of the Samsung monoblocs as they are really compact, well supported and highly rated. It'll be expensive as I will need to have a lot of pipework done and a new tank in the loft etc (heating manifolds are in a bedroom at the front of the house as it the distribution board which is in the dining room and the meter which is on the front of the house, but that's all on the road so we'd need the unit at the back - cue expense). But even if the cost doesn't come down, it might at least be warmer for the same money spent on power.
Hi .would a 800 watt panel fixed on the ceiling above the bed be able to heat directly underneath quickly? Not worried bout heating the room just the person directly underneath. The distance from the panel to the bed below would be 5.5 feet...if so would it get too hot? According to this video.its pretty much crAp??
In theory it would work yes and it wouldn't get too hot. However, for the cost of a decent panel and a gamble that it would work for the purpose you intend it for, I'd much rather get an electric blanket. That will definitely work and it will be alot cheaper
Very informative young man!
Infrared panels were my idea to replace night storage in bedrooms. Turn on to go to bed, and first thing in morning. You've informed that idea!
p.s. We used to use a calor gas heater, way back in the 80's - beware they leave your walls dripping with water after as little as an hour of use. They do get you warm, though!
Hey Geoff, well you might be OK with a higher wattage panel from an expensive brand 🤷♂️ the people that have them seem to be the only ones who say it does work but there are very few of them. Maybe they just don't want to admit they wasted a load of money though. A guy in the comments said he had his whole house heated with panels but switched them off a couple of years ago because they weren't that good and it was so expensive and ended up using a calor gas fire. I haven't brought the gas fire up yet but thanks for letting me know about the moisture issue, I didn't know that could happen! I've got a dehumidifier if I need it though. Electric blankets seem to be a big thing at the moment
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT dehumidifier, very good for warming up a room - especially the dessicant type! Take care..
Tune in next week for my in depth video when I see if snowmen melt when placed in front of a small candle. Would be cheaper and safer to cover the walls and ceiling in electric blankets.
😂
It's more like buying a freezer and complain it doesn't freeze your ice cube trays instantly. Heating a home takes about the same kilowatts no matter what source you use, but once heated it's about efficiency. IR panels are great for longevity, but not instant heat.
You can now get IR wallpaper.
Looks even more expensive 😬 there's no way I'd take chance on it 😳
I bought one of these and had exactly the same experience as you - very minimal effect and not worth the money. I was only trying to heat a much smaller space as well.
It does seem that the majority of people that use them have a negative experience
Was about to buy that exact model for the home office, but seeing you sit in front of it a feel nothing means it won't work as expected. There does seem to be a lot of mis-marketing around these heaters.
I can sell you one that I haven't opened if you like? 😉😁 Yeah it only works if you sit less than a meter away from it
lol, not sure that shipping would work out ;) but yeah 1 meter, are they taking the Micky?
Interesting. Were about to order solar panels and battery system to retrofit on our house and I was wondering about some sort of electric heating so we can reduce our dependence on gas. Was considering Infra Red heaters. I'm still undecided. You've probably already got rid of the heaters but was thinking if you ordered them online you should be able to just send them back.
I ordered them about 9 months before I even got to this point so couldn't return them 🙈😂 if you do go for them I'd definitely consider oversizing the system. 25w per m3 just isn't enough 😒
I'm in the exact same position
I live on the 8th floor in England, one bedroom room, the heating consumption is very high, £13 a day, it really drives me crazy, is this heater really low consumption? Can you tell me approximately how much it consumes and how many voltages it has . How to buy it ?
Hi Kia, I wouldn't recommend buying one if these, it wasn't any good. Several people who have them installed have commented and said they have high running costs. What kind of heating do you have at the moment?
That is very expensive. What type of heating are you using and are your windows double-glazed? Check out my recent reply on patio heaters. They are not pretty but can be cost-effective due to their relatively low purchase price and the way infrared heat works. You could buy of cheap model and give it a try. I heat my lounge (13ft x 10ft) on one 600w bar and find it comfortable. My electricity fix ended on 31/12/22 so I am now paying about 74% more. The most expensive day so far has been £6.57. On that day I heated a tank of water, run the washing machine twice, tumble drier once, cooked a meal in a halogen oven, and run the heater from 4pm to 1am. Most days are cheaper. You might also consider a floor-standing halogen heater. You can find them on Amazon for as little as £25. The drawback is they produce light as well as heat. I find them too bright but it might not be a problem for you.
I looked into IR panels recently as a potential alternative to electric panel heaters, but concluded that IR really only work as space heaters to "top up" an insufficient central heating system. To heat an entire home on these, it would need to be an eco build with the highest possible EPC rating ie not suitable for the vast majority of British homes.
Yeah, the type of house where they'd be good is one where you don't really need any heating 😂
I also had my doubts and then at what cost of energy . I cant see it heating up the structure enough as they say it would . Oh well fill in the ceiling holes :-).
It's a shame they don't work well, I guess that's why these things haven't become popular
Where did you get your cob headlamp?
From ebay. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313728727809?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=y-gn0s_stjw&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=2IneN-08Rii&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
It’s an expensive way to get 900W of heating, but presumably if you run them continuously and you’re well insulated, it will warm up eventually? Be interesting to see how they work in a room that’s closer to normal room temperature? And at least they are silent if you do need them on a lot, vs a fan heater for instance? If you can’t get a refund I’d stick them up and see?
It will take an absolute age to warm up the room as the radiation it produces won't reach any objects to heat them up. That means 70% of the energy/heat it produces is ineffective. That leaves the remaining 30% on convention heating up the air at the top of the room. It's a total waste of energy and money 🤦♂️ I will try and sell the other 2 panels though 🤫
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT all of the 900W will end up heating the room. All the energy will end up dissipated either through conduction or convection. The issue is 900W isn't enough energy to raise the temperature by 20C for example. Any electric heating source is basically 100% efficient, so you'd bet better value from a fan heater. You need phase change to increase the efficiency beyond 100% e.g. Heat pump
I bought one of those gas heaters that look like a wood burner. I was shocked at how quickly the gas was used up. I think it cost me about £100 in gas in just a matter of a couple of months. That was just lighting it on evenings when sat watching TV. It looked nice, but just too expensive to run for my liking. I sold it on Ebay after about 3 months!! Good for occasional use I guess. I also worried about the fumes from it. Although the blurb on it says it's safe, my gas engineer mate told me that I should have a window open when I was using it. Sort of defeated the object. Have you not thought about electric underfloor heating before you put the final flooring down? I don't think it's that expensive and logic tells me that any heat source should be lower down so the heat permeate upwards. But I'm not very techie!!
Oh dear, I suppose that was before gas prices went up too?! I already have the gas heater and bought it second hand for £100 (new and unused) a couple of years back, it has just been sitting in storage since. So I may as well spend abit on gas rather than even more money on an alternative heating system. Good idea with the underfloor heating, I would have considered it had the lodge not just been temporary accommodation for us. Afterwards it will be an office or guest room for the odd visitor so the gas heater or small fan heater will suffice. I was just experimenting with the panels really and didn't realise they would do so little. Hopefully I'll get the barn liveable in time for next winter 🙈
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I have friends who live in a log cabin on an airfield and he put underfloor heating in as he built the cabin. It was always relatively warm . I think he said that it wasn't that expensive to buy but it costs a bit to run. But they put in a log burner after a while which makes the cabin really lovely and cosy. However, if for occasional use, I think it would be well worth considering the roll out mat type of electric underfloor heating. I bought a mat (much smaller than you would need) for under my feet when I am working at my desk. It doesn't warm up the room much but it certainly stops the cold feet and legs when I have to sit at the desk for long lengths of time. I have often thought of doing the whole room with it. Just has to have a LOT of insulation underneath it to make sure the heat goes up and not into the floor.
@@eileengeldard323 I know the equipment doesn't necessarily cost much but I have to make a decision about where its best to spend money and when to hold back. With something that costs hundreds of thousands, if you keep spending an extra 50 quid or couple of hundred here and there it quickly adds up and before you know it you've run out of money and end up with a lovely house and no furniture, eating your dinner sitting on camping chairs 😂
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT absolutely. I'm that person. I get to thinking, oh bugger it, Ive spent £20k what's another £200. Big mistake. My budget on the last one was £20k and ended up £30k. I'm still sitting on camp chairs!! Not really ha ha.
decent infrared panels heat up a little over 200c, it's real district heat radiation..and they are densely built and heavier but functional..you can't do anything with these carbon fiber resistors.
Thanks mate that was very helpful
They work but you have to be really close to the panel. For me ideal for my home office
It's a shame they don't work at more of a distance 😔 How close do you have yours? Oh and how many watts is it?
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I have them
Basically use reptile heating matts between some plastic and aluminium with bit of thermal insulation been cheaper make your own under floor heating would of been better as heat rises
That sounds like a better idea than these cheap ir panels
I've the 100watt in my shower room underfloor heating it actually burns ya feet on full very warm and cheaper with WiFi thermostat
I live in a 2bed mid terrace house with logicor infrared heaters absolute waste of space and money never feel warm have now switched it all off and using a portable gas heater to heat house as it’s warmer and a lot cheaper
Ah sorry to hear that, what size panels do you have? I'll be using my portable gas heater soon too, just popped a little electric heater on for the first time this evening as it goes
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT 5 X 900w and 4 X 450w was costing upto £15 a day 2020 to run in the winter don't want to think what it would cost to run them this winter if it's a cold winter
@@davidmason7380 😩 wow that's expensive
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT yes that's why there not being switched on
Some heat pumps come with a/c and heating with Infrared so I think your test may be lacking in some way to reflect true value of infrared heating.
Infrared customer who have whole house heating infrared seem very happy over other heating sources so you must not be comparing apples to apples in your testing.
I think it may depend on panel sizes but in general you can find lots a people that arent happy with their infrared panels. Someone else recently commented that they stopped using their panels last year as it was super expensive and wasn't any good. My test just showed my panels weren't going to work for me.
I bought a 350 watt panel and it heats up to more than 3 meters.
You get wat you pay for
👍 What brand did you get?
Caught the "round the outside" musical reference.
I had considered these but heating from the top down just doesn't make sense to me
I know of a couple of 300w panels going cheap if you want to try it 😂
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT 🤣🤣
Keeping with electricity, you would be best to just fit a small split air conditioning unit, especially with the decent insulation you've installed. These IR panels will never heat the room so it will always feel cold.
Interesting, I've never even considered an air conditioning unit 🤔 maybe I'll revisit this idea in the future... 2nd hand ones seem to be reasonably priced, although would that be asking for trouble?
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT If you can find a good condition split unit, you would only need to find an installer that was F-Gas registered to install. I doubt you'd save much overall though - most newer systems are pre-charged and you can prepare a lot of the installation yourself - e.g. mounting the units and getting the electrical supply ready. You should be able to achieve at least 3 kW heat output for every 1 kW of electricity, in certain conditions it'll be better than this though. Added advantage is you can use for cooling if needed in the summer when solar panels would be producing most energy.
you could try aluminium foil tape on the plastic of the plug
That's a good idea
how about underfloor heating?
Yeah that's an option, but I don't want to spend the money on something we're not going to permanently live in and will end up just being used as an office in the end
Iv got one they are great,piping hot 🔥 energy efficient.
Woefully underspecced for the size of that room
Yep, see the pinned comment 👍
You will do me a favour with your tests.
They looked good from this side of the screen. Hahaha.
Hey Stephen, I think I've drawn a line under this for now. So doubt I'll be doing any more testing. I think triple the wattage may have a chance of working though. Are you thinking of getting some ir panels?
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT still thinking.
Their logic seems to heat the area your in.
But I have only seen the promotions.
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT you are going into summer so does that mean you have delayed your decision?
@@stephenbrickwood1602 I'm going to use the portable gas burner this winter coming and an electric fan heater as a back up. If I was to revisit this I'd get the 3x 800w panels but I've got over £100k I still need to spend on the whole build so spending £500 on new panels isn't something I really want or need to do right now. My other half is the only one bringing in money really as I only earn about £100 a month on here. Everything adds up very quickly 🤦♂️
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT I in a similar situation.
I think it can all make sense, building your own home.
We pay a mortgage with after tax dollars here for 30 years and nobody can get sick or you sell your home.
Good luck, the work will keep you fit.
Hahaha Hahaha.
Use 1500 watt radiant patio heater's
So whats the update to this video?
I didn't use the panels, they are chucked in the shed. This winter I'm using a cheap fan heater and the gas burner that I mentioned in the video. Next year we should be in the main house.
'round the outside' see what you did there :)
Get yaself a normal fan heater for £19.99 from toolstation - boom, job done! Also fisher oil filled rads are good
Yeah I've already got one 🙌 I did have a small oil rad somewhere too actually
Try reading up on how they work, they heat you up primarily not your surroundings.
I'm sure they heat up any solid objects basically, including people. I'm pretty sure the system needs to be a higher wattage for it to get close to working 🤷♂️ hey ho
"...And do-si-do your partners." Thanks for this... even showing the panel insides. Really helpful.
👍
They are advertised to heat you to feel warm not heat the building
Yeah they're supposed to heat people and objects. Unfortunately the small panels can't heat anything if its more than a meter away though. Maybe a higher wattage panel might do better 🤷♂️
Thought this guy was putting on an Indian accent at the start.....London accent sounds crazy sometimes
😂
Lmao, I was confused at beginning trying to fiquire out what language he was speaking, then I could understand him. That first sentence was so funny lol
@@eveskey7982 lmao 😂🤣😂 it was probably the best of about 6 takes. I don't say "what's up I'm Aiden" anymore, I just say "alright people"
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT ohhh I thought you said what's up I made in. You said it so fast lol. Great review btw.
@@eveskey7982 haha someone said it sounded like "what's up iron maiden" before. I don't even say what's up in 'real life' 🤦♂️
Lack of power I think was the problem.
Have to get bigger ones
Yep the bigger the better... Within reason 😄
Got 80 quid worth of gear of eBay.... You should have put it in the title, would save lots of people minutes of their lives
Sounds like you'd smash it running a youtube channel, give it a try 😉
Hang the panels on wire
🥰🥰
~ What the “F: is a Quid ???
😆 quid = great British Pound
300watts is too weak ..you need at least 1500 watts
I had 3 of them so 900w and the rad which is 800w off the top of my head. In theory I thought that was enough for the size of room with the amount of insulation I have. I was wrong though 😂
@@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT since radiant doesn't heat up air , only objects ..it's important the radiation hits the objects ..closer the better ..the radiation decreases very quickly with distance according to the "inverse square law"
@@relaxingnature2617 Are u saying individual panels need that higher wattage? So the energy it puts out has to be high enough to overcome the distance, as I believe there is a formulae that calculates the amount of energy lost per meter. Then each unit has to put out that amount, not that amount total over so many units.
300w 🤨 that's why
Yep, 300w is only good to warm your feet under your desk if you have it 300mm away 😂
wrong... you need times by 35
More like 100x 😂
Spur off remove plugs
That would be a good idea to hard wire them in if I decided to actually put them up
Two trailer park girls go....
Two trailer park girls 🤣
👏👏👏 🤣