I have been using a 220w IR panel in our office and a 500w in our living room. We found that they consumed very little energy. In 21/22 we reduced gas usage by running our rads at 40⁰c and saved about 42% of our gas . The IR panels were used mainly in the lounge in evenings and study during the day. This experience led to getting rid of gas in 2022 and we now use a heat pump . We still use the IR panels a bit to delay the switching on of the heating in autumn and as you say as a "treat". I too wouldn't want to only have IR panels for the reasons you mentioned.
That’s really interesting to read, thanks Philip! I love the 42% drop in gas use… that could be replicated in lots of cases, before the big step forward with the heat pump. Thanks for taking the time to comment!
That *should* be actively tried by everyone. If you can do that, your house is heat pump ready. In my case the house can run at 50 most of the winter, up to 60 once it drops below zero. That's heat pump ready if it's the right heat pump, as that's a little hot for preference as the main temp. Only a couple of months a year can the rads run cooler than 50 and still hit 20c in a couple of rooms. So I know if I upgrade one radiator and install an extra one into one of the spaces, I'll be ok running at heat pump temps. That lets me plan a transition over a few years at my own pace,a ppetite for disruption and financial situation without having to take out a loan and pay back, and I can sit at "heat pump ready" enjoying lower bills and spewing less co2 while I save for the heat pump itself.
@@jezlawrence720 Absolutely. I think in practice we went a bit too far with gas reduction so now with heat pump we can allow ourselves to have higher room temps but it was an interesting experiment as we took part in the octopus energy winter challenge that year.
I have a Herschel infrared towel panel in the en-suite, replacing a traditional radiator. The original radiator would only heat when the whole house (gas) heating was on, so of no use in the summer for helping to dry/warm towels. I have a smart button that we can use to give just an hour of heating when needed. We used to have a problem with damp and mould in the en-suite, but since having the IR panel, this has not been a problem at all. The surfaces are being heated rather than the air, so even the mirror doesn’t mist up as much after a shower! Graham
Great stuff - this panel suggests you shouldn’t hang clothes / towels on it as it gets quite hot, but I guess that doesn’t apply to a towel panel! Thanks for engaging Graham!
Very broadly speaking: 350W electricity input to your IR panel gives 350W heat energy to raise your room temperature. 350W heat derived from gas is probably cheaper financially but not so good for the planet. 350W heat from your heat pump using substantially less than 350W of electricity seems the best bet. Infra-red panels do have their niche uses (I have one to heat my shed) but are not otherwise competitive I think.
HI Steve, I agree you are absolutely right. I should be using the heat pump for heating rather than IR panels. Where I could get some benefit is supplementary heating for increased comfort in the office space that my wife uses, keep the rest of the house a bit cooler, but keep Esther happy during the work day... maybe! Thanks for engaging with the video Tom
Interesting to see it in action Tom. I do something similar in my office with a Dyson Airblade, but interestingly haven't needed it much this year. So how hot is the actual surface of it, can you put your hand close? Thinking of maybe getting one for the garage...
Hi Edward, the surface gets very hot. So much so I wouldn't want one installed where children are. I should have mentioned this in the video! Probably ok for the garage, although with the surface getting hot, maybe it would be wasting energy in a cold space. Surya do have a bunch of products that seem perfect for a garage, maybe not this one..! Hope you are doing well! Tom
If you have a suitable roof for solar PV and batteries (which have both come down in price considerably in recent years) then PV with batteries and using flexible tariffs plus IR heating, is probably considerably cheaper than installing a CH heat pump system to replace gas... and then adding PV & batteries to that. The high cost of the heat pump hardware makes IR a much better choice when coupled to PV & batteries imo. It's probably cheaper now to put in a 4kw PV array with 5-10kwh of batteries, than to install a heat pump. At today's prices, a PV battery system pays for itself out of saving on bills, within about 5 years. After that you've basically got free electricity each year based on the size of your array. Sure most of that will be produced in summer, but with flexible tariffs and feeding from battery into the grid at times of high demand, means you leverage your batteries to make money, which offsets your higher heating costs in winter. You can also get a thing called an i-boost if you already have an immersion tank, and that senses when you're feeding into the grid & diverts it to the hot water tank, giving you a secondary way to store surpluses from your PV. You can setup the system to prioritise batteries and in-house use first & when batteries are full to then start heating the water. It is a variable system which only uses the surplus which would have gone into the grid, without needing to draw from the grid to make up the full power of the water heating element.
Interesting video. In unused rooms, couldn't you keep the panel at a low temp, like you would leave a rad on a low setting? Its looks to be something worth researching for those who are unable to get a heat pump.
Yes, with thermostaticaly controlled versions, they work well. I have them in all room, & turn them or for set periods of time, controlled by my Alexa devices
Hi Stef, I didn’t notice that - but that could be because we are mainly using it to supplement a warm ish space. But possibly if you are only using IR panels you may want to rotate yourself throughout the day….!?!
Aren’t you meant to leave the radiators on with a heat pumo? Maybe one could keep the pump on set back when working at home and just have IR in the office to top up. Ah you said that. I think Heat Geek suggested something like that. But it’s it just 300w or nothing if topping up? Will have to rewind and see if you answered that. Just 850w per day? So it’s on off rather than constant?
Hello - yes absolutely, it is good to leave radiators open so that heat can be delivered to the house. I turned the one off in this video just to see how the IR panel did. It would be top up during normal usage. Yes the panel is on/off rather than constant. Once the room reaches the desired temperature it switches off. So for top up, lifting the temp from 18/18.5 to 19.5/20 won't use much energy at all. Thanks for engaging with the video!! Tom
I can still see this with a heat pump. Using the heat pump to only heat to 15c and infrared panels when you use a space wpuld be probably very efficient when you consider how often the little used rooms would ever need topping up for any length of time, your heat pump is never going to have to ramp up ever and run at ridiculous efficiency the whole winter. Plus im told ir panels at 18c *feel* more like 20 if theyre pointed at you rather than trying to maintain the room itself, which would be why when it said your room was at 19, you felt fine already.
Hi Jez, thanks for engaging with the video, that could be a sensible way of running a system. I suspect different for every home and every person in each home as to how they would want to experience their home. But people who are out of the house each day, it could make sense to rely on supplementary heating like this Tom
Hi Owen, Good question, I don't have a direct comparison. But I think the suggestion is that an IR panel will use less energy. We used to have a 2 kW oil filled radiator for supplementary heat, this feels just as warm but a much lower rating.... I should've tried a comparison! I suspect you could get a large oil filled radiator for quite a lot less money. But may cost more to run Thanks for the question Tom
@@owenwall5486 the electricity put in, is the energy put out in warmth. But infrared heats you directly whilst electric heaters first heat the air, which then in turn heats you, which requires more energy than heating you directly. So infrared panels will heat you (if pointed at you) quicker, whilst radiators require a lot more energy to heat the air (making it comfortable to get into the room, but takes alot more energy).
Rather use my heated blankets on the sofa tbh Edit But I think the flow temperatures that ASHP run at, particularly on the lowest one's will mostly heat the room via IR than convection. I don't think you get the same strong convection currents at 35c that you do at 70c.
Thanks Lewis, I’ve never used a heated blanket but I can imagine lovely and cosy! A central heating radiator cannot create an infrared wave so all heat is via convection or conduction. But yes, at higher temperatures there would be more air movement. That’s a very interesting point… maybe makes the case for multiple rads in the same room. Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Anything that is hot produces IR waves no matter the source. So a wet radiator at 70C is the same as an IR panel at 70C (per unit area). Also both convect. Generally its shape defines its heating characteristics.
What type of heat pump have you got as the are ones that cheat and use heating element or the equivalent of a fan heater. if you have a true heat pump that is not cheating then a 580w or bigger IR panel will help in winter I am talking about on the nights it's below winter below zero outside (you can get 160w-350w for small rooms and hallways) Also the are solar panels / deep cycle batteries / IR panel solutions where you get free heating the is a setup cost but it pays for it's self in the first 4-6 years and then the only part you need to replace is the deep cycle batteries at about 8-12 years and these batteries will pay for them self's in the first year or two. but by then we will have batteries that will last 15-25 years before they deteriorate.
Hello. I thought an IR heater heated objects like people, pets, walls etc., and not the air. So I wouldn’t expect the room to heat to 21 degrees C. Or is that bad logic on my part?
Hi Jayp - no you are absolutely right. I find it fairly odd that they control to temperature using the remote like this. In heating the surfaces, people etc that will raise the temperature of the space, but in a different manner to a conventional radiator. But, I agree with your logic! Not sure how else they could control the output.... Tom
But surely the air is being heated, indirectly? The IR heats your body, the desk, the bookcase etc by wave irradiation, these objects' temperatures rise, and some of that energy must convect into the air. It's that raised air temperature that the device is measuring. Or put another way, if you entered a really cold garden office and switched on the IR heater, you and the desk etc would feel warmer quite quickly, but it can't be the case that the *air* would stay cold, otherwise how would the detector know when to switch off? Tom, would this explain why you said the IR heating felt a bit "odd"? Maybe it's because you warmed up but it took a while before the air surrounding you also warmed up, which is the reverse of our normal experience with convected heat. I'm still a bit confused here, because you also said the IR became hot to the touch. So surely it must also be working by convection too?
@@matchmade44 Just like the sun. It doesn't heat the air, it's heated by radiated heat from the ground buildings for example. This is why Cities are a lot warmer, with a lot of radiated heat.
Im not really interested in any appliance loke this unless it comes with an app. Not cos i cant manage without butbbecause i refuse to go back to remote controls all over the place all needing batteries, storage, getting damaged over time and having to be replaced and recycled...
Hi Jez - very fair point, I had originally been asked to review this product -www.suryaheating.co.uk/glass-ir-heating-panels/350w-nexus-wi-fi-infrared-heating-panel.html that does come with an app, however there was a problem with the panel I had been sent so decided to look at the NXT Gen version instead. I also control this through my smart plug app but still reliant on the remote! Tom
I have been using a 220w IR panel in our office and a 500w in our living room. We found that they consumed very little energy. In 21/22 we reduced gas usage by running our rads at 40⁰c and saved about 42% of our gas . The IR panels were used mainly in the lounge in evenings and study during the day. This experience led to getting rid of gas in 2022 and we now use a heat pump . We still use the IR panels a bit to delay the switching on of the heating in autumn and as you say as a "treat". I too wouldn't want to only have IR panels for the reasons you mentioned.
That’s really interesting to read, thanks Philip! I love the 42% drop in gas use… that could be replicated in lots of cases, before the big step forward with the heat pump.
Thanks for taking the time to comment!
That *should* be actively tried by everyone. If you can do that, your house is heat pump ready.
In my case the house can run at 50 most of the winter, up to 60 once it drops below zero.
That's heat pump ready if it's the right heat pump, as that's a little hot for preference as the main temp. Only a couple of months a year can the rads run cooler than 50 and still hit 20c in a couple of rooms.
So I know if I upgrade one radiator and install an extra one into one of the spaces, I'll be ok running at heat pump temps. That lets me plan a transition over a few years at my own pace,a ppetite for disruption and financial situation without having to take out a loan and pay back, and I can sit at "heat pump ready" enjoying lower bills and spewing less co2 while I save for the heat pump itself.
@@jezlawrence720 Absolutely. I think in practice we went a bit too far with gas reduction so now with heat pump we can allow ourselves to have higher room temps but it was an interesting experiment as we took part in the octopus energy winter challenge that year.
I have a Herschel infrared towel panel in the en-suite, replacing a traditional radiator. The original radiator would only heat when the whole house (gas) heating was on, so of no use in the summer for helping to dry/warm towels. I have a smart button that we can use to give just an hour of heating when needed.
We used to have a problem with damp and mould in the en-suite, but since having the IR panel, this has not been a problem at all. The surfaces are being heated rather than the air, so even the mirror doesn’t mist up as much after a shower!
Graham
Great stuff - this panel suggests you shouldn’t hang clothes / towels on it as it gets quite hot, but I guess that doesn’t apply to a towel panel!
Thanks for engaging Graham!
Very broadly speaking: 350W electricity input to your IR panel gives 350W heat energy to raise your room temperature. 350W heat derived from gas is probably cheaper financially but not so good for the planet. 350W heat from your heat pump using substantially less than 350W of electricity seems the best bet.
Infra-red panels do have their niche uses (I have one to heat my shed) but are not otherwise competitive I think.
HI Steve,
I agree you are absolutely right. I should be using the heat pump for heating rather than IR panels. Where I could get some benefit is supplementary heating for increased comfort in the office space that my wife uses, keep the rest of the house a bit cooler, but keep Esther happy during the work day... maybe!
Thanks for engaging with the video
Tom
Interesting to see it in action Tom. I do something similar in my office with a Dyson Airblade, but interestingly haven't needed it much this year. So how hot is the actual surface of it, can you put your hand close? Thinking of maybe getting one for the garage...
Hi Edward, the surface gets very hot. So much so I wouldn't want one installed where children are. I should have mentioned this in the video!
Probably ok for the garage, although with the surface getting hot, maybe it would be wasting energy in a cold space. Surya do have a bunch of products that seem perfect for a garage, maybe not this one..!
Hope you are doing well!
Tom
If you have a suitable roof for solar PV and batteries (which have both come down in price considerably in recent years) then PV with batteries and using flexible tariffs plus IR heating, is probably considerably cheaper than installing a CH heat pump system to replace gas... and then adding PV & batteries to that. The high cost of the heat pump hardware makes IR a much better choice when coupled to PV & batteries imo. It's probably cheaper now to put in a 4kw PV array with 5-10kwh of batteries, than to install a heat pump.
At today's prices, a PV battery system pays for itself out of saving on bills, within about 5 years. After that you've basically got free electricity each year based on the size of your array. Sure most of that will be produced in summer, but with flexible tariffs and feeding from battery into the grid at times of high demand, means you leverage your batteries to make money, which offsets your higher heating costs in winter. You can also get a thing called an i-boost if you already have an immersion tank, and that senses when you're feeding into the grid & diverts it to the hot water tank, giving you a secondary way to store surpluses from your PV. You can setup the system to prioritise batteries and in-house use first & when batteries are full to then start heating the water. It is a variable system which only uses the surplus which would have gone into the grid, without needing to draw from the grid to make up the full power of the water heating element.
Interesting video. In unused rooms, couldn't you keep the panel at a low temp, like you would leave a rad on a low setting? Its looks to be something worth researching for those who are unable to get a heat pump.
Yes, with thermostaticaly controlled versions, they work well. I have them in all room, & turn them or for set periods of time, controlled by my Alexa devices
Looking at the sun on a sunny day in winter, your face warms up, but the back of your head (to the touch) is colder. Is this true of the IR heater?
Hi Stef, I didn’t notice that - but that could be because we are mainly using it to supplement a warm ish space. But possibly if you are only using IR panels you may want to rotate yourself throughout the day….!?!
Aren’t you meant to leave the radiators on with a heat pumo? Maybe one could keep the pump on set back when working at home and just have IR in the office to top up. Ah you said that. I think Heat Geek suggested something like that. But it’s it just 300w or nothing if topping up? Will have to rewind and see if you answered that. Just 850w per day? So it’s on off rather than constant?
Hello - yes absolutely, it is good to leave radiators open so that heat can be delivered to the house. I turned the one off in this video just to see how the IR panel did. It would be top up during normal usage.
Yes the panel is on/off rather than constant. Once the room reaches the desired temperature it switches off. So for top up, lifting the temp from 18/18.5 to 19.5/20 won't use much energy at all.
Thanks for engaging with the video!!
Tom
I can still see this with a heat pump. Using the heat pump to only heat to 15c and infrared panels when you use a space wpuld be probably very efficient when you consider how often the little used rooms would ever need topping up for any length of time, your heat pump is never going to have to ramp up ever and run at ridiculous efficiency the whole winter.
Plus im told ir panels at 18c *feel* more like 20 if theyre pointed at you rather than trying to maintain the room itself, which would be why when it said your room was at 19, you felt fine already.
Hi Jez, thanks for engaging with the video, that could be a sensible way of running a system. I suspect different for every home and every person in each home as to how they would want to experience their home.
But people who are out of the house each day, it could make sense to rely on supplementary heating like this
Tom
How do they compare to oil filled electric heaters and things like that? Or storage heaters..
Hi Owen,
Good question, I don't have a direct comparison. But I think the suggestion is that an IR panel will use less energy. We used to have a 2 kW oil filled radiator for supplementary heat, this feels just as warm but a much lower rating....
I should've tried a comparison!
I suspect you could get a large oil filled radiator for quite a lot less money. But may cost more to run
Thanks for the question
Tom
Thanks for your thoughts on this!@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle
@@owenwall5486 the electricity put in, is the energy put out in warmth. But infrared heats you directly whilst electric heaters first heat the air, which then in turn heats you, which requires more energy than heating you directly. So infrared panels will heat you (if pointed at you) quicker, whilst radiators require a lot more energy to heat the air (making it comfortable to get into the room, but takes alot more energy).
Rather use my heated blankets on the sofa tbh
Edit
But I think the flow temperatures that ASHP run at, particularly on the lowest one's will mostly heat the room via IR than convection. I don't think you get the same strong convection currents at 35c that you do at 70c.
Thanks Lewis, I’ve never used a heated blanket but I can imagine lovely and cosy!
A central heating radiator cannot create an infrared wave so all heat is via convection or conduction. But yes, at higher temperatures there would be more air movement. That’s a very interesting point… maybe makes the case for multiple rads in the same room.
Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Anything that is hot produces IR waves no matter the source. So a wet radiator at 70C is the same as an IR panel at 70C (per unit area). Also both convect. Generally its shape defines its heating characteristics.
What type of heat pump have you got as the are ones that cheat and use heating element or the equivalent of a fan heater.
if you have a true heat pump that is not cheating then a 580w or bigger IR panel will help in winter I am talking about on
the nights it's below winter below zero outside (you can get 160w-350w for small rooms and hallways)
Also the are solar panels / deep cycle batteries / IR panel solutions where you get free heating
the is a setup cost but it pays for it's self in the first 4-6 years and then the only part you need to replace
is the deep cycle batteries at about 8-12 years and these batteries will pay for them self's in the first year or two.
but by then we will have batteries that will last 15-25 years before they deteriorate.
Hello. I thought an IR heater heated objects like people, pets, walls etc., and not the air. So I wouldn’t expect the room to heat to 21 degrees C. Or is that bad logic on my part?
Hi Jayp - no you are absolutely right. I find it fairly odd that they control to temperature using the remote like this. In heating the surfaces, people etc that will raise the temperature of the space, but in a different manner to a conventional radiator. But, I agree with your logic! Not sure how else they could control the output....
Tom
But surely the air is being heated, indirectly? The IR heats your body, the desk, the bookcase etc by wave irradiation, these objects' temperatures rise, and some of that energy must convect into the air. It's that raised air temperature that the device is measuring.
Or put another way, if you entered a really cold garden office and switched on the IR heater, you and the desk etc would feel warmer quite quickly, but it can't be the case that the *air* would stay cold, otherwise how would the detector know when to switch off?
Tom, would this explain why you said the IR heating felt a bit "odd"? Maybe it's because you warmed up but it took a while before the air surrounding you also warmed up, which is the reverse of our normal experience with convected heat.
I'm still a bit confused here, because you also said the IR became hot to the touch. So surely it must also be working by convection too?
@@matchmade44 Just like the sun. It doesn't heat the air, it's heated by radiated heat from the ground buildings for example. This is why Cities are a lot warmer, with a lot of radiated heat.
@tom you measured air temp, but IR doesn't heat air. Did the air temp rise come from as radiation from your body? is: IR to human, then human to air.
Best up higher on the wall, or even better, on the ceiling... Heating people & objects.... Sat on the floor, it's not as good 👍
Fair enough!
Im not really interested in any appliance loke this unless it comes with an app. Not cos i cant manage without butbbecause i refuse to go back to remote controls all over the place all needing batteries, storage, getting damaged over time and having to be replaced and recycled...
Looks like the ideal candidate for a smart plug or smart socket.
Hi Jez - very fair point, I had originally been asked to review this product -www.suryaheating.co.uk/glass-ir-heating-panels/350w-nexus-wi-fi-infrared-heating-panel.html that does come with an app, however there was a problem with the panel I had been sent so decided to look at the NXT Gen version instead.
I also control this through my smart plug app but still reliant on the remote!
Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Cheers Tom!