Why are hardcore Eurovision fans similar to hooligans nowadays? | Eurovision Podcast
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Hooligans x Eurovision fans? WTF??! What makes them look similar and why I think they can expect a similar fate? And is there a way back? Let's talk!
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Eurovision is my passion. Eurovision was my work and I am still gladly part of the professional community of this project. I started at Eurovision 2016 as Czech Head of Delegation. Such a Eurovision story! Form Eurovision in Sweden I went to antoher ESC experience. Kiiv 2017 Eurovision. This was my first and last failiur. Sometimes you need to learn trough losing even it is not plasant. We ended up 13 in the semifinal, second best score of Eurovision Czechia back then. But after this we established ESCZ national selection format. It was mostly held online. Because of this we found Mikolas Josef who went 6th at Eurovision 2018 in Portugal. Than 11th with Lake Malawi, at Eurovision 2019 in Tel Aviv, Israel.
Eurovision story is crazy. After finding all candidates and songs (-1) for ESCZ 2020 I resigned and left the television for working freelance.
Not to stop being part of Eurovision, I created this channel as I have an urge not to do just Eurovision Reactions from a different perspective. But also to do national selection reactions, watch others how they do their craft and also give a different approach for Eurovision fans.
I am very glad was part of many eurovision juries. Mostly in national selection and since 2017 I was in MGP Norway, Eurovision Malta, UMK national selection Finland. Juror in Melodifestivalen 2016. Biggest national selection. Also helped Eurovision Ireland, Eurovision Estonia, Eurovision Azerbaijan and many others.
Just amazing to be part of this community, so check my Humans of Eurovision, check my Eurovision reaction videos.
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It is also worth noting that many people who are most hardcore have gone quiet now, probably because the EBU has not acceded to their whims. Dont worry EBU, in the long term you might gain more than you lost. Succumbing to fandom pressure has actually cost the contest a lot of reputational damage. People applauding the quality of Eurovision in recent years were appalled with the level this year, even though some fans in their echo chamber will call it the best Eurovision ever.
thats what I agree, and EBU actually does it. Prepared with host country environment for people to cheer up, also to work and this is a re-pay.
The hardcore fandom has been putting me off for quite some time. And yes, they do have the power to influence at least 8-9 out of every 10 semifinalists (with room for 2 surprise ones at most).
The EBU should note who the troublemakers were this year and make sure they don't bother us again. And i dont mean everyone who wasnt keen on Israel's participation (we all have our opinions on the Israel-Palestine issue) but those who contributed to the creation of a rather unsavoury and hostile environment. Also the ones who are using their overreaching influence to manipulate the outcome of the contest.
Eurovision should be for everyone and not just some extreme woke opinionated group.
I think EBU should talk more personally to those people in the bubble, also domestic broadcasters. They carry responsibility and if some fans dont really get this, then no accreditation, thats easy.
@@JanBors indeed. Eurovision has existed longer than some people's UA-cam channel, and will continue to exist without them.
@@JanBors This is so true. On the Eurovision website the handbook for Media Press is published. Most fansites didn’t behave accordingly to those rules which say there must be no discrimination. By ignoring Israel and reporting very one-sidedly they didn’t stick to the rules. I don’t know if they should get accreditation next year.
yep, this year basically was "no rules" driven
Jan, i agree with you 100% ❤ no place to haters at eurovision
Well this is what you ask for when you let a country participate when Eurovision did NOT allow others for the same reasons. EBU should have its own rules right and it should count for everyone. If you don´t, you will make people mad.
And why was this country should not allowed to participate ?
I believe that when they realized that they are not realy "influencers"' they moved to bullying.
I can say there is some general long term frustration that is transfered to negative energy instead of something positive
Thank you for this and your similar videos. I've got personal stuff going on in my life and I was looking forward to the escapism of the contest this year, but the fans really ruined it with their unnecessary drama this year. I just took a step backwards because it was too much to take. Sometimes I feel like the fans are parrots of each other. My taste is different and it can be hard to find something positive about some of the songs I like. They all crowd around a few and ignore the others, which is so frustrating, especially when you don't really like the popular songs. I came into the fandom about a decade ago as an extremely anxious teen and one song in particular really helped me to feel better and understand myself better. I had to stop watching wiwibloggs then because almost all they had to say about this entry was a criticism. In one video, which stayed with me, they were unfairly critical in comparison to the other entries and even spoke about part of the artist's appearance in their review of the song and staging from a rehearsal. It was a bit like, "I like (the artist), but ... . I also don't remember seeing any articles or reviews from them that accurately explained the meaning of this song, when they would do it for most of the others. They would also praise artists for speaking about mental health whose songs weren't about it, but this one was. It feels like pure laziness, but the fans listen and then suddenly they have the same opinion and it becomes really toxic. I think it's the wiwibloggs effect, but as others have joined who also watched wiwibloggs as a teen, they do the same because that's what they have seen gets you success. It's so twisted. As someone who tends to favour songs that aren't the popular ones within the community, it also makes me go in to the semi-final results feeling so anxious for my favourites that I often end up having to cry when the result is good or bad because of all the built up emotions. Czechia was my favourite in 2016 and I remember hearing how it's a country that has never qualified and next to one of the favourites in the running order more than what you were doing or that it wasn't the same Czechia as the earlier stint. There had been significant improvement in 2015 and it was a beautiful song with outstanding vocals. The staging was then so pretty. I remember crying when you qualified, it was a beautiful moment.
Thank you for sharing.
I dont think its one website effect but who knows. I see the perspective more from above as I am not such a hardcore fan and I am more curious about the whole. And and I see the rise of agresivity, where especially after covid it just accelerated.
But I hope it will get better and you'll again enjoy it!
@@JanBors I agree with after covid, but I think that's in general, not just with Eurovision. I think wiwibloggs started off being the more troublesome website, but it made them more famous in the community, so maybe people have copied them. Also with the rise in hooliganism, the younger fans with a platform will think that's how you are supposed to behave, which is really worrying. You're right about the lack of decent questions as well. Some of the artists end up looking so bored. Sometimes it's as if the fan press have done no research on some of the artists, which doesn't make sense from fan press. There's just a massive lack of respect towards particular artists, who will then get less publicity. I'm from the UK and before we hosted last year, the semis were on a smaller BBC channel, so if you weren't aware of them, you were unlikely to just come across the semis, so the fan percentage in the viewing figures would've been higher, along with various diasporas. It would make me wonder whether any of the fan press' bias would sneak into the smaller semi-final votes as they would overly praise their favourites and almost ignore the others.
I feel the same. Eurovision was a safe, pleasant bit of escapism, an interest I could follow from home without cost or travel, as my life recently has been beset with caring for elderly parents, death of close relatives and dealing with estates etc, as well as full time work, all stressful things. I really feel sour on what it turned into this year. It should have been a joy, especially as I loved a lot of the songs this year. Instead I finished the Grand Final feeling quite tense and a bit upset. Made me question why I bothered, and if I would follow it next year.
@@littleblackpistol I am sorry to hear this, hope you are now much better and all is a bit more calm. I can emphatise on this. And another reason to repeat to people - come on, this is an entertaiment show! We see how prestigious it gets but still, come on!
@@littleblackpistol I'm sorry to hear about what you've had in your life. I've had death and now advanced dementia with my grandparents. I was providing care all day on the day of the final, but with all the chaos I got back to, it was more relaxing providing the care.
I need to get this off my chest. When I watched the 2024 Grand Finals, Israel was booed. Azerbaijan wasn’t. Both countries have their issues, yes. The difference is that Israel gets hate both online and offline. But Azerbaijan? It’s only online. No one was booing Azerbaijan. What hypocrisy!
now imagine you would boo Ukraine, who aslo defending itself, pitifully has not such power as Israel to do it on enemy's territory. Or any other country which is connected to war. We than could boo everyone. Its all hypocricy. Such things simply dont belong to Eurovision, period. I am still in schock someone is ok with it.
I hope, more so called members of the community put up videos like this Jan! I have no problem with either the press room vloggers or fellow artists saying what they feel leading up to arriving in the host city, everyone has an opinion and fair enough. But I was always taught that the umpires decision is final and when everyone got to Malmo this year, what ever you thought of any nation, I expected the all inclusive nature of the ESC community to embrace and at least be respectful of each and every artists, but as we know this did not happen. I am a fan of ESC Tom and he had live footage of watching Eden perform and there while he was not in the actual press room he was in an area near the stage for those covering the event and the stuff that was verbally happening is not on (for the record Tom stayed silent while Eden performed and this was a respectful way to protest). As I stated under one of Tom's videos those in the arena are invited guests of the ESC as they are members of fan clubs around the different nations and anyone of those people who are found to have booed and jeered should never be allowed in the arena at a Eurovision ever again. As I also stated in my past comments, Eurovision is supposed to be about the music and performance, yes we all know that politics had a nudge nudge win wink affect in the past but it was more a hinderance than anything to get emotional over. Now it seems every contestant has a cause or issue they want to talk about instead of just being there to perform. I 100% agree with your assessment of where this will end up if it is allowed to continue. Great video!
I agree. And thank you. For me this is so sad. Still there are some people writing me disinformations and fake news on the channel and other social media, just to support their cause against Israel. Which is crazy. But regardless Israel, its more about a behaviour. As now its Israel, other year something else. Its radicalising every year a step more and the community is very aggressive. "Journalist" using emotions instead of facts, even ESC Tom who I like as a vlogger. Just hijacking the project, creating the atmosphere which is unnecessary and than all the mess goes on a big their way. Instead of carriers of ESC principless, they are showing the exact opposite. Anyway, this should be a topic and also a feedback. Because than the brand is in pure danger. It should start with delegations, continue with artists contracts and ending with fans and PR of EBU towards them.
For me, everyone who boycotted Israel with silence contributed almost as much as those who were more vocal about it. One was a vocal form violence, the other was a silent one. It was still discriminatory.
@@ds5379 I dunno, I support Israel but silence doesn't disrupt others' enjoyment of the show. or other artists' calm and it's fine imo to not be enthusiastic about certain acts. Silence doesn't create the horrendous violent atmosphere that ugly screeching and booing does. Obviously that's the reason they choose to boo and screech. That and it's fun to hide one's ugliness in a mob, so one cannot be held to account. trust most of those booing wouldn't say shit to Eden or boo if they were alone without an equally ugly crowd to hide in. This is why mobs are dangerous as hell- they are composed of people who generally speaking, would NEVER do the things they would do in a mob, alone. We see it throughout history - a hysterical mob is empowered to do the worst things as they feel emboldened by numbers and they feel their personal responsibility for the crime is less.
@@littleblackpistol I agree in a way. I'm more thinking along the lines of vloggers who throughout the build up pretended Eden didn't exist, and in a subtle way, validated the reaction she got in the arena.
@@ds5379 This is the so called passive aggressive approach. As you rightfully state, it's equally dangerous as anything else.
This is exactly what I thought. EBU will look at the troublemakers - like Gabe - and refuse them accreditation. They can do that. And I hope they will not be to 'afraid' to do it
Gabe, Wiwibloggs, you name it. Those "people" won't attend or even talk about Eurovision-related in the slightest ever again.
Why wiwiblogs? I’m not informed 😅
wiwiblogs se dedico a echar leña al fuego, y propalar todo tipo de rumores. Se unio al boycott y no le hizo ningún favor al buen funcionamiento de Eurovision este año.Estoy de acuerdo en que les retiren la acreditación. @@misshippeia😮
@@misshippeia me neither... I haven't really followed wiwibloggs this season, just watched couple of random videos on their channel.
I think such drastic decision should come only after if this will continue even another year. First imo should be nice to find some concensus. To meet in the middle, talk it trough. So many people has no clue how it work behind the cameras but so many theories. Even so - EBU and host broadcaster with help of the rest producer are creating a space for fans, they pay for it etc... imo, the resolution is completely blurred and should be mediated
I'll admit, I saw a lot of bullying from all sorts of people, not just the ones who were against Israel participating. There were a bunch of really vitriolic comments; a couple I felt the need to apologize for just to reassure the creator who received it that not all of us who understand the difficult situation Israel is in are that out of our minds. I felt really bad for some of the content creators. They seemed stuck in a no-win situation and just trying to keep from getting completely lost.
this is pittifully happening in general and getting more extreme :/ Internet reality
Jan, the rumors say that the Czech Republic is withdrawing from the Eurovision, is that true?
its a rumor, idk, its a possibility every year
Jan, yes again. I very, very much agree with your points. Especially that many people cannot see nor comprehend the sheer scale of responsibilities and complexity involved in making such a production like Eurovision happen at all. I work in the same environments professionally, so like you, I understand needs, context and nuances from an inside perspective and I get into a LOT of discussions, especially this year, trying to explain why certain things went the unpleasant ways they did this year or why certain complaints are completely missing the point. Also, I am astonished at how many Eurobloggers are so out of touch with just the base facts of the EBU itself, the logistics and literal values of what they proclaim to be the biggest fans of. I've been an avid ESC fan for 4 decades now, from childhood joy, to post-ironic fun, to serious professional and actual musical interest and invest.
I am seriously worried that we might have entered a phase of Eurovision, where - as often is the case - the lover kills the beloved. I've used the term "hools" too. The polarizing self-righteousness that's become entrenched in contemporary discourse has entered Eurovision, both by fans and artists alike, and I am seriously worried. Thanks again for adding your voice of reason to the ongoing discussion!
many thanks for this post! I read it twice as it was like someone is talking for me. Rly appreciate, as I feel the same concern of this feeding of conspiratory theories how things work and its annoyingly triggering 😂🙏 And then ofc the issue where such project might be led by this atmosphere and lack of leadership from delegation side. After all they are responsible for their representatives.
We just a sieron and what booms!! Luv and peace from Israel 🇮🇱 ❤
At various points of the video it was pretty not clear what you were getting at or whom you were refering to. Also the word "radicalized" was used so many times into a vague context. Along of course with the toxic fandom wouldn't it be a nice idea to set on the table the issue of the danger that betting odds and betmakers pose into influencing and forming the final results? Toxic fans are not the only threat to the credibility and essence of the contest, the profit makers out of it constitute a great deal of risk as well.
just to odds - kinda funny is that for example this year they did not form any result, they were massively wrong. Betting in general can generate social problems. Thats not just a Eurovision thing
He means the bloggers who booed or ignored Israel. He has even done an interview with Eden.
@@moonrider1156 I am pretty sure I got the gist. My point is that he should be explicit about stating his opinion rather than talking vaguely with hints.
hints, I talk about all people in the bubble who were openly hating on Israel, which the way it was also done is bullying. If this is acceptable at Eurovision, than this project is over.
@@JanBors Be a sport. Listening to your monologue I felt here and there that you were trying to imply things rather than be explicit about them. Now we're talking, don't be afraid to state your opinion clearly, as long as it is decently expressed and non offensive. What you said about generally being reasonable and handling such issues with logic and prudeness is the most important point of all. Of course, I agree with what you said about the booing, the bullying, even the passive aggressive one by being silent during a specific entry, hence not doing the job you are supposed to be doing and so on. If we consider that in the name of inclusion we are being the live anti paradigm, then for sure the project Eurovision is everywhere near to be over. Pushing any agenda as well tends to effectuate the same result.
תודה!
wow!!! thank you ❤️❤️❤️
fuck, yeah! 💪👈