The squisher at the Patchface console twiddled the knobs in frustration for a few minutes more, but the reception didn't improve. He turned to his mate and whispered, "why do I always get this one that never seem to work? Why don't I ever get _that_ one?" He pointed across the room to the Damphair console where the boss-squisher's nephew was happily reading a script into the microphone. They both knew the answer, just as they both knew that the nephew would be going home early _again_ today...
So a thought came to mind when Theon notes that Aeron used to be the most amicable of his uncles - the youngest, a jokester, lost at sea. The same can be said for Tyrion and his uncle Gerion Lannister - youngest brother of Tywin, unserious jokester, went missing after sailing off to find Brightroar, now a candidate for who the Shrouded Lord might be. Shrouded Lord is another King in Yellow figure with Gerion being a "Golden Lord" of Lannister and Euron mentions seeing gods carved of gold with gemstone eyes, much like the jade green eyes of Lannister.
Awwww thanks for the shoutout. Couldn't catch this live but doing the rewatch now. Yeah mythfam I won't be around for 2 weeks. I have family visiting from across the country who I rarely see and my brother and his wife are having their baby shower for their soon to be firstborn next Sunday. But I've been feeding Dave extra Lovecraft lore so you can blame me for the religious sects stream being delayed. I hit him with the Starry Wisdom and he also got Patchfaced for a moment.
I've gotten into. Robert Howard and Conan binge recently and remembered we're looking in the wrong place for Deep One lore. Lovecraft set the template but Howard and others filled it in. What happens to both Patchface and Aeron is perfect with Conan lore. Edit: for example when we notice Damphairs odd speech it could be due to ancestry memory he sees one wolf just as any other.
Speaking of dementia did you know iron toxicity it related to Alzheimer's? Those poor ironborn are effed. "Iron overload is directly linked to cognitive decline in Alzheimer's disease (AD). Iron is a redox-active transition metal that can cause oxidative stress and neuronal loss. It can also induce the production and accumulation of extracellular β-amyloid protein (Aβ), and promote the hyperphosphorylation of tau proteins. Aβ and tau proteins are the primary markers for Alzheimer's disease, and are associated with senile plaques (SPs) and neurofibrillary tangles (NFTs). NCBI Iron and Alzheimer’s Disease: From Pathogenesis to Therapeutic Implications - PMC Sep 10, 2018 Frontiers Frontiers | Iron Dyshomeostasis and Ferroptosis: A New Alzheimer’s Disease Hypothesis? Feb 25, 2022 Magaziner Center for Wellness Iron Toxicity: A Cause of Alzheimer's Disease - Magaziner Center for Wellness Too much iron can cause Alzheimer's disease. ... Studies of gene mutations that affect the metabolism of iron have suggested that the dyshomeostasis (the breakdown of the delicate balancing system of iron metabolism) plays a role in neuronal death, such as the neuronal death that occurs in neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease. As a potent source of highly toxic hydroxyl radicals, redox-active iron is actively associated with senile plaques and neurofibrillary tangles (NFTs), the primary marker for Alzheimer's disease.. Ferroptosis is a process in the body that is dependent on elevated iron levels, leads to cell death, and plays a key role in neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's. One study suggests that ferroptosis, a form of cell death caused by excess iron accumulation, destroys microglia cells, crucial components of the brain's immune system. Researchers also believe that anemia may have a significant connection to Alzheimer's disease. This is for informational purposes only. For medical advice or diagnosis, consult professional."
Honestly this just makes me feel even worse for poor Patchface. Imagine if he'd somehow washed up on the Iron Islands instead. He'd be, not better off perhaps, but validated at least.
Perhaps. But then he would have been made a super drowned priest with actual visions of the future, leading the Ironborn to conquer Westeros. Maybe not so nice...
Need more Patchface in my life! Thanks for this and killer theory! More fun tinfoil: Patchface isn’t the boy Lord Boratheon brought home with him, but a Squisher/Deep One wearing his skin! In all honesty I’m so happy to hear a comparison between these two characters. I remember reading these books a couple years back and thinking of Damphair as the charlatan and pretend prophet while Patchface would be someone who the sea really did choose to come back as a mouthpiece for the Drowned God. Who’s C’thulhu’s pope? A lunatic of course.
Was listening to this at the gym and started cracking up every time you read Aaron’s lines. So interesting to realize that he actually is disassociating from reality (instead of being just a false prophet) Keep up the good work. 🙌
One thing that always stood out to me about damphair is that waterskin he's always carrying around, kinda reminded me of that weird waterskin-like sack the fremen used in the spice agony ritual in dune, which funny enough also has to do with inducting/initiating somebody into a mystical hive-mind iirc
It’s definitely becoming more and more evident that everything about the Iron Born and Euron is a direct parallel to Bloodstone Emperor and his path to entering the Weirwood Net. A pregnant Fallia Flowers acting as Nissa Nissa, and the Holy Men being stand ends for the Green Men makes so much sense. Euron probably will enter the Weirwood Net, but most likely body snatched.
Yesterday was the first time that I read Lovecraft and it was terrifying (in a good way). Loving these iron born's streams (the sea and the drown god scare the shit out of me haha) 🐙
Personal tinfoil on this, is that the north was once separate from the majority of Westeros as it is now, with Seagard being the continents original, northernmost point.
Technically the ironborn murder, not steal. Paying the iron price, requires you kill the owner. The weath taken at that point doesnt have an owner, so not theft or stealing. You could argue they steal lives, but thats not the same as thievery, srealing, etc. Like you said, pirates steal, the ironborn kill. Your theory def makes "what is dead can never die, but rises harder and stronger" fit what happens when the dead are animated. Mauhaps there are weirwoods underwater as well, that the squishers employ. Also, the "squishers" could be mermaids. More human in appearance, but conflicts with land folk would create the monster aspects of them. Any person from land would notice the "monsters" at the drowned gods halls. Seems it mentions the drowned gods hall is served by mermaids. George likes to do this style of misdirection.
I can’t believe no one made this connection. Lancel Lannister was taken by the Seven worshippers, a cult, after the Battle of Blackwater Bay. Near water. He used to be a pathetic idiot. Now, he’s a fanatic to his gods. Like Damphair is to his. Both underwent extreme personality changes.
I actually do believe that someone will eventually catch on to Patch Faces prophecies, and that the understanding of his prophecies will be a factor in Melisandre's downfall. I think that's why she's received such menacing visions of him.
I'm here enjoying this video while eating a big bowl of Magic Spoon. Decided to try the pumpkin spice to celebrate the beginning of fall. They're magically delicious! ...Oh wait, lol
I'm a definite maybe on this theory. Getting water wighted would go a long way toward explaining Aeron's drastic change in personality. And squisher influence on early Ironborne culture makes a lot of sense. But I'm not quite there yet on contemporary squisher mind control. Mostly cause it's hard to see how there could be room for them in the contemporary narrative, which is so focused on the coming conflict between the powers of ice and fire. Maybe a future video or book will get me the rest of the way.
Another witty jester drowned, and came back surviving against real odds. It's said the Shrouded Lord grants his favor on whoever can make him laugh. Of course, I'm talking about Tyrion and the Rhoyne. Any relevance that the water wizards, and the curse they brought, has this same jester myth?
it's definitely some sort of parallel, and the Shrouded Lord has always seemed like commentary on the Grey King. SL might have been a statue kissed alive, Grey King kinda turns into a statue
Perhaps Benjen can be added to that list. Jon notices he has "blue-grey eyes, in which a hint of laughter is often present". And he likes summerwine and teases Lyanna, getting coated in wine for his trouble
Honestly the death of Stefan and his everyone on his ship is completly their fault. What kind of a idiot would try to sail a ship in to a place literally called Shipbreaker bay.
I'm going to go ahead and say this is gospel, the similarities are striking when you point them out. The parallel with Stannis is really interesting. Thank you for the Monday afternoon entertainment!
@31mins in there’s a reference to scales falling off of one’s eyes which is a reference to the biblical conversion of Saul to Paul the apostle; changing from an antagonist life towards a religion to becoming one of the greatest prophets. Interesting to consider with his current status in the Winds of Winter prologue
In case you are referring to Paul as a prophet, I have to correct you. He was an apostel, preacher and very talented missionary. But not one of the prophets
Brilliant, man! Thanks a lot! Water magic along with ice, fire and wood magic. With all the (magic) swords pivotal for the story you could also make a claim for metal magic (metal is also one of the elements in far Eastern mythology)..
Jesters do oft prove prophets. Shakespeare. I'm also curious about all the thrones now, specifically the chair-as-an-altar idea. One for each element. Seastone Chair: Water. Iron Throne: Fire. A chair for the White Walkers: Air (the Unseelie Court of Air and Darkness). A Weirwood chair for earth: the Children of the Forest and the Green Men. And whatever gods there are running things need 'godly' men to 'sit' their thrones as the centerpiece of the altar. But for every king, the gods need a prophet (axe and net), for every element. Prophets need a living fire breathed into them by the gods after dying. And the ability to get resurrected comes from their original bloodlines that date back to before the Long Night. And blood comes from marrow, which comes from the bones, which may be why there was so much random bone talk. IDK, but this was a great video! Keep up the good work.
As someone who was raised catholic, the drowned god religion and the ironborn in general are especially interesting. It all sounds like GRRM's way of expressing how weird catholic theology and imagery is. Only you just see it when you start to know people who weren't raised catholic. Death and suffering and subservience are very much normalized in catholic religiosity and you just don't see how weird it is that your local church has a piece of bone from a saint that died horribly centuries ago, or your grandma has lots of statues of miserable bleeding people, statues your non catholic friends are all afraid of hahaha. So when you read that people are drowning each other and thinking it's amazing, worshipping a dying, rotting god eaten by fish... oh, there's no better way to make a contrapoint. I feel like all this twisted retelling of catholicism is also GRRM's way of affronting traditionalism and fundamentalism in a smart, creative, elevated manner. It hits home. Love George for it! I'm having so much fun with this ironborn phase you're going through, David. It's probably my favorite subject, so thanks. Amazing stream!
Drowned men = water wights? I can’t recall Aeron eating anything but a drag on a flagon of sea water. He doesn’t really seem to sleep all that much (like Mel). Can he die?
Great theory. Do you have anything to say about the relationship between the Squishers and the Children of the Forest? Both have been around forever and both are master manipulators, surely they have some sort of relationship.
The Greenseers are kind of part and parcel with the Children. And the Others were created when Azor Ahai invaded the green sea by killing NN - probably a CoF. And the Squishers are parallels symbolically to the Others.
Muren is Latin and means one who is imprisoned, and 'to mure' is to imprison someone or to wall them in, or someone who is meek. So Murenmure is likely a meek weakling of a man trapped in that keep with no will of his own.
And another association with Theoden in LOTR, before Saruman's enchantment on him is broken. The other is Balon looking grey and unnaturally aged because of the influence of magic (the seastone chair)
You spoke about the symbolism with one Wolf being like another. But I’m the segment about going down during the Greyjoy Rebellion we have him gambling with “Lions boars and Chickens”. So we have Houses Lannister, Crakehall & Swyft.
I would argue that there is still a chance Patchface didn't die but was weakened from hypothermia, lack of fresh water, and exhaustion from trying to stay alive over two days. The probability of surviving the harrowing experience described in the book is slim, but not impossible. Similarly, I believe Damphair could have endured a comparable ordeal, experiencing a near-death situation. For instance, Bran didn’t need to die to awaken his power or muddle his memory. Likewise, I don't think Patchface or Damphair would need to die and resurrect to become what they were. A severe traumatic experience would be sufficient.
Nice theory, but ultimately i believe that Aeron's whole thing is, as Alt shift x put, a coping mechanism to feel powerful after all the trauma hes faced at the hands of Euron (he thinks no mortal man can harm him since he's the gods chosen prophet). We see him do this another way ay first, being a party boy and throwing up a fun guy act, to cover up his trauma. But then afterwards he convinces himself that his drowning and recusitation is a phrophets resurrection, because it makes him feel powerful. No doubt, he genuinely believes it, but its because its something that he wants to believe so he convinces himself its true, just like Mel convincing herself Stannis is the true king. Hence why we get all the bravado of thinking in terms of the sea and praise of the gods. Its his way of convincing himself of something he knows, deep down, isn't true.
agree he's dealing with trauma, and we did discuss that, but no he was drowned. it makes too much sense. the idea that the deep ones have been suggesting things to the drowned Priests is too compelling and answers the question of "why Patchface" in very satisfactory fashion
What if Euron controls all four magics: He was a student of Bloodraven and rebelled, he is a greenseer, a warg, and is high on shade of the evening. He sailed to valyria and got a dragon horn and a valyrian armour is going to steel one of Danny's dragons. He was probably drowned and probably rebelled to the deep ones. He will probably get in touch with the others and try to rebel as well, and be king of the ashes.
Was I the only one while reading the book the first time didn't realize how easy his name is pronounced compared to some of the other characters? I totally read it as "Dam(ph)air with an "F" sound and when the show came out I felt like an idiot.
Good connection LML!!! Too bad academia has a monopoly on reading and giving opinions...I'm glad people like you are changing this one video at a time!
The Old Gods are the greenseers, right? What happens if the land is flooded? The greenseer is drowned. Do you think Bloodraven need to breath air? Or is he supplied both physically and magically by the weirwood? He has already lived beond his mortal years. What is dead may never die, and that is not dead which can eternal lie... Ergo The Drowned God is a greenseer. Probably under Nagas Hill, right?
If there's a relationship between the Others and the Greenseers (they might be them.?) then it follows that the same is true for the Deep Ones. That they're the result of something that happened with the Greenseers
I've usually listened to these while at work (which does mean I miss much of the lovely art), and somehow I didn't get what it meant to "Praise Garth" until today.
@David Lightbringer I vote probably. On another subject, the way you crop cuts off the very left hand side for me. About 2 or 3 letters of the iceberg lists
I thought Aeron being a parallel of Melisandre by way of Patchface was just a plain reading of the text rather than something you had to go digging for a theory foundation lol while the wider Lovecraft themes need you to call on knowledge outside the text 😊
@@DavidLightbringer it was primarily just "a comment for the algorithm", but I thought my meaning was clear lol But to explain my thought Martin loves repetition and parallel right? Melisandre is one of the handful of characters who we can see doing magic things that defy normal explanation (although Martin leaves some wiggle room on somethings, but not all of what she does). She's also presented as a true believer and god touched, Moqorro is similarly done (tbf, Thoros is a counterpoint to the whole faith is magical motif and I assume that Martin isn't pushing that idea and that he isn't doing a theophilia and so eventually I assume he's going to go very hard on the "magic comes at a cost". Although as the setting appears to ultimately keep reducing to a Manichean dualistic (simple dichotomy struggle do be in the title, whether that's moderated by "song" would be too much of a detour in this already rambling post 😂) struggle I'm not sure how he is going to grand reveal the devil's bargain - despite all the effort put into showing the dark side of how everyone in Planetos understands their world). So, we're shown "priests" with magical powers, and as you say repeatedly Mel does not like being in Patchface's presence at all so reinforcing the warring gods/natural realms (whatever label you want) theme and if we can trust her reaction then we're being shown whatever it is that Patchface has going on it's a real thing in universe. So given Martin's love of repetition and ritual it just followed in my mind that Aeron was a direct parallel of the magical priests of who think they're channelling R'hllor and Patchface is the supporting evidence showing it's in universe possible? And I just meant that if a reader weren't familiar with the Lovecraft verse that the significance of it wouldn't be obvious at this point in the books from just what Martin gives us. Anyway, thanks for the content.
Damp hair is crazy man you can’t say nothing, to that man without being like, “and the drowned God will rise up, and give us salt drinks,” or some shit😂😂 I’m so glad you brought that up.
At around the 1:40:00 time, as Aeron reflects on his brother being murdered by a jealous god, the storm god- it makes me think on Euron having him murdered to further his ambitions of power, ultimately intending to be a god himself.
@david lightbringer Have you looked up elcmar? House tawny I am very confident they are inspired by the people of cair. Look up meaning of Co. Kerry still a real place. The ancient tribe is related to stories of people getting turned into swans. As for the slavery connect the term black Irish made by the brits to dehumanise people. The nettle flail with 9 nettles references a story of a girl making nettle shirts to break the swan curse for her 9 brothers. 9 also how long oden stayed hanging and how long dagda kept it dark so elcmar would not know how much time was passing and would assume angus was his baby.
in the bible, those who are given "eyes to see and ears to hear" are those who are otherwise looked down on and rejected: children, the disabled, the poor, etc. these are the ones who perceive the righteousness of jesus in the new testament and the power and justice of the mosaic law in the old testament. it also represents a symbolic awakening from a state of sin and ritual uncleanliness to a state of purity and holiness, especially in the context of god's chosen people, who are burdened by sin but must keep the law and strive to attain purity. interpretively, it's an instance of grrm taking a very judeo-christian stock phrase found throughout the bible and applying it to the drowned god adherents. but it's also interesting to think of it as a clue from grrm that "truth" in the ironborn society comes from the being(s) that aeron claims to represent: in his mind, the drowned god; but really in your theory the deep ones who are using him as a mouthpiece. anyone whom aeron reaches through his preaching is opening their eyes and ears to the message that the deep ones want to propagate among the ironborn through aeron. and aeron's eyes to see and ears to hear are opened through his drowning, when the deep ones take control of him
Okay caveat: I was raised barely going to church at all so this might be SUPER tenuous as best, but the Damphair reminds me of a tent revival preacher that believes what he says, but he’s not exactly getting the direct line from the big dude upstairs (or downstairs in this case), while Patchface is the real deal prophet and… doesn’t even know it?
I never realized how much Jesus comparison there is for Aeron Greyjoy. I mean just with his looks he’s rocking the stereotypical Jesus hair + beard. He himself is an actual prophet spreading the word of his god. And by the end of his chapter in winds he’s practically crucified
It would be cool if euron was dragged to the deep by a kraken! A kraken is technically a leviathan and leviathan can be anything from a whale to a dragon!!! (Wyrms, and worms included!!)
Forgive me if I am late to any theories but I just like how the iron born mirrors skandinav and how it's people where Norse but then where over taken by Christianity.. the way damp hair mirrors an abrahamic or christian priest as well. Also reading rheagar is money....maybe shedding blood while drowning just attracts stuff to eat you instead of revive you.... I reckon it might just be that simple?
The squisher at the Patchface console twiddled the knobs in frustration for a few minutes more, but the reception didn't improve. He turned to his mate and whispered, "why do I always get this one that never seem to work? Why don't I ever get _that_ one?" He pointed across the room to the Damphair console where the boss-squisher's nephew was happily reading a script into the microphone. They both knew the answer, just as they both knew that the nephew would be going home early _again_ today...
five stars
So a thought came to mind when Theon notes that Aeron used to be the most amicable of his uncles - the youngest, a jokester, lost at sea. The same can be said for Tyrion and his uncle Gerion Lannister - youngest brother of Tywin, unserious jokester, went missing after sailing off to find Brightroar, now a candidate for who the Shrouded Lord might be. Shrouded Lord is another King in Yellow figure with Gerion being a "Golden Lord" of Lannister and Euron mentions seeing gods carved of gold with gemstone eyes, much like the jade green eyes of Lannister.
shrouded lord is also a grey King who might be a statue
Awwww thanks for the shoutout. Couldn't catch this live but doing the rewatch now. Yeah mythfam I won't be around for 2 weeks. I have family visiting from across the country who I rarely see and my brother and his wife are having their baby shower for their soon to be firstborn next Sunday. But I've been feeding Dave extra Lovecraft lore so you can blame me for the religious sects stream being delayed. I hit him with the Starry Wisdom and he also got Patchfaced for a moment.
thanks tim, have fun with the family!
I've gotten into. Robert Howard and Conan binge recently and remembered we're looking in the wrong place for Deep One lore. Lovecraft set the template but Howard and others filled it in.
What happens to both Patchface and Aeron is perfect with Conan lore.
Edit: for example when we notice Damphairs odd speech it could be due to ancestry memory he sees one wolf just as any other.
Enjoy the family time! We will miss ya ❤
Thank you for feeding Dave
Enjoy -conducting occult rituals with- spending time with the family!
Love the whole theory about the sea stone chair being a sacrificial altar.
More on that in the recent Ironborn video
Beware all, LML has secretly been a Squisher/Deep Ones-influenced creator this whole time! 🐙👽
“It's ocean madness alright. Sailors call it aqua dementia, the deep down crazies, the wet willies, the screaming moist”
Thanks for "the screaming moist"... I'll be working that one into my daily conversations.
Speaking of dementia did you know iron toxicity it related to Alzheimer's? Those poor ironborn are effed.
"Iron overload is directly linked to cognitive decline in Alzheimer's disease (AD). Iron is a redox-active transition metal that can cause oxidative stress and neuronal loss. It can also induce the production and accumulation of extracellular β-amyloid protein (Aβ), and promote the hyperphosphorylation of tau proteins. Aβ and tau proteins are the primary markers for Alzheimer's disease, and are associated with senile plaques (SPs) and neurofibrillary tangles (NFTs).
NCBI
Iron and Alzheimer’s Disease: From Pathogenesis to Therapeutic Implications - PMC
Sep 10, 2018
Frontiers
Frontiers | Iron Dyshomeostasis and Ferroptosis: A New Alzheimer’s Disease Hypothesis?
Feb 25, 2022
Magaziner Center for Wellness
Iron Toxicity: A Cause of Alzheimer's Disease - Magaziner Center for Wellness
Too much iron can cause Alzheimer's disease. ... Studies of gene mutations that affect the metabolism of iron have suggested that the dyshomeostasis (the breakdown of the delicate balancing system of iron metabolism) plays a role in neuronal death, such as the neuronal death that occurs in neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease. As a potent source of highly toxic hydroxyl radicals, redox-active iron is actively associated with senile plaques and neurofibrillary tangles (NFTs), the primary marker for Alzheimer's disease..
Ferroptosis is a process in the body that is dependent on elevated iron levels, leads to cell death, and plays a key role in neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's. One study suggests that ferroptosis, a form of cell death caused by excess iron accumulation, destroys microglia cells, crucial components of the brain's immune system.
Researchers also believe that anemia may have a significant connection to Alzheimer's disease.
This is for informational purposes only. For medical advice or diagnosis, consult professional."
He might have ocean madness but that's no excuse for ocean rudeness.
Whoa.
“I’ll lead it! We’ll walk out of the sea”
Pachface is seeing the weights walking out of the water and attacking the Free Folk at Hardhome
The most gospel theory yet. You’re literally just taking Aeron at his word, it’s fantastic
Honestly this just makes me feel even worse for poor Patchface. Imagine if he'd somehow washed up on the Iron Islands instead. He'd be, not better off perhaps, but validated at least.
same I had that same feeling
Perhaps. But then he would have been made a super drowned priest with actual visions of the future, leading the Ironborn to conquer Westeros. Maybe not so nice...
@@DavidLightbringer a Patchface/Aerion tag team is NOT what the good folks needs
Need more Patchface in my life! Thanks for this and killer theory!
More fun tinfoil: Patchface isn’t the boy Lord Boratheon brought home with him, but a Squisher/Deep One wearing his skin!
In all honesty I’m so happy to hear a comparison between these two characters. I remember reading these books a couple years back and thinking of Damphair as the charlatan and pretend prophet while Patchface would be someone who the sea really did choose to come back as a mouthpiece for the Drowned God. Who’s C’thulhu’s pope? A lunatic of course.
Would love a Dr Phil spoof working with the whole Greyjoy family 😂
I like the idea that the oily black stone is magically radioactive. Makes Asshai like a magical Chernobyl.
Was listening to this at the gym and started cracking up every time you read Aaron’s lines. So interesting to realize that he actually is disassociating from reality (instead of being just a false prophet)
Keep up the good work. 🙌
The best thing about a Monday morning was seeing this. Gonna carry me through most of my day thank you
"the shadows come to dance m'lord, dance m'lord." And Wymar Royce has the line " Dance with me then"
One thing that always stood out to me about damphair is that waterskin he's always carrying around, kinda reminded me of that weird waterskin-like sack the fremen used in the spice agony ritual in dune, which funny enough also has to do with inducting/initiating somebody into a mystical hive-mind iirc
I love Aeron and his crazy sea talk lol. Hope he can survive whatever Euron has planned. Would be really funny to see him and Patchface together
It’s definitely becoming more and more evident that everything about the Iron Born and Euron is a direct parallel to Bloodstone Emperor and his path to entering the Weirwood Net.
A pregnant Fallia Flowers acting as Nissa Nissa, and the Holy Men being stand ends for the Green Men makes so much sense. Euron probably will enter the Weirwood Net, but most likely body snatched.
Yesterday was the first time that I read Lovecraft and it was terrifying (in a good way). Loving these iron born's streams (the sea and the drown god scare the shit out of me haha) 🐙
Honouring thy request.
a "Neck" can also mean a location where lava has hardened.
Personal tinfoil on this, is that the north was once separate from the majority of Westeros as it is now, with Seagard being the continents original, northernmost point.
Technically the ironborn murder, not steal. Paying the iron price, requires you kill the owner. The weath taken at that point doesnt have an owner, so not theft or stealing. You could argue they steal lives, but thats not the same as thievery, srealing, etc. Like you said, pirates steal, the ironborn kill.
Your theory def makes "what is dead can never die, but rises harder and stronger" fit what happens when the dead are animated. Mauhaps there are weirwoods underwater as well, that the squishers employ.
Also, the "squishers" could be mermaids. More human in appearance, but conflicts with land folk would create the monster aspects of them. Any person from land would notice the "monsters" at the drowned gods halls. Seems it mentions the drowned gods hall is served by mermaids. George likes to do this style of misdirection.
I can’t believe no one made this connection. Lancel Lannister was taken by the Seven worshippers, a cult, after the Battle of Blackwater Bay. Near water. He used to be a pathetic idiot. Now, he’s a fanatic to his gods. Like Damphair is to his. Both underwent extreme personality changes.
Actually Dave, and SquisherKing, the squishers deal in Mackerel aggressions. Thank you, I'm going to resume watching now.
Thank you.
Under rated comment
I actually do believe that someone will eventually catch on to Patch Faces prophecies, and that the understanding of his prophecies will be a factor in Melisandre's downfall. I think that's why she's received such menacing visions of him.
Not entirely related: Claw Isle has a “horn that can summon monsters from the deep.” 😳
I'm here enjoying this video while eating a big bowl of Magic Spoon. Decided to try the pumpkin spice to celebrate the beginning of fall. They're magically delicious! ...Oh wait, lol
I'm a definite maybe on this theory. Getting water wighted would go a long way toward explaining Aeron's drastic change in personality. And squisher influence on early Ironborne culture makes a lot of sense. But I'm not quite there yet on contemporary squisher mind control. Mostly cause it's hard to see how there could be room for them in the contemporary narrative, which is so focused on the coming conflict between the powers of ice and fire.
Maybe a future video or book will get me the rest of the way.
well, where do the visions and things that's Patchface sees come from? who resurrected him? the deep ones is the only answer
Another witty jester drowned, and came back surviving against real odds. It's said the Shrouded Lord grants his favor on whoever can make him laugh. Of course, I'm talking about Tyrion and the Rhoyne. Any relevance that the water wizards, and the curse they brought, has this same jester myth?
it's definitely some sort of parallel, and the Shrouded Lord has always seemed like commentary on the Grey King. SL might have been a statue kissed alive, Grey King kinda turns into a statue
Perhaps Benjen can be added to that list. Jon notices he has "blue-grey eyes, in which a hint of laughter is often present". And he likes summerwine and teases Lyanna, getting coated in wine for his trouble
It's a brilliant theory and I hope the world of asoiaf continues to expand.
Honestly the death of Stefan and his everyone on his ship is completly their fault. What kind of a idiot would try to sail a ship in to a place literally called Shipbreaker bay.
well it needs the name somehow... maybe the storm came up behind them
@@DavidLightbringer Those storms have been there for thousands of years. Should have docked somewhere else and then travel to Storm's end by land
Perhaps it was no accident!
27:37
Always reminded me of that guy in Airplane who would say random-ass responses to others' lines
I'm going to go ahead and say this is gospel, the similarities are striking when you point them out. The parallel with Stannis is really interesting. Thank you for the Monday afternoon entertainment!
Great theory, Dave. Love that the ironborn are thralls in one way or another. Such a great inversion. Thank you!
I was never big on the Ironborn but 15 min in I'm convinced. This connection is wild and terrifying 🐙
@31mins in there’s a reference to scales falling off of one’s eyes which is a reference to the biblical conversion of Saul to Paul the apostle; changing from an antagonist life towards a religion to becoming one of the greatest prophets. Interesting to consider with his current status in the Winds of Winter prologue
In case you are referring to Paul as a prophet, I have to correct you. He was an apostel, preacher and very talented missionary. But not one of the prophets
Yeah he would like that you called him that though. Guy really wanted to get his take inserted into this new growing Christianity thing
@@Slechy_Lesh lol so true
I didnt make it on time :(. But i know is going to be good 😂
I'm thoroughly patchfaced off the squisher pack this is gonna be an insane watch
Brilliant, man! Thanks a lot!
Water magic along with ice, fire and wood magic. With all the (magic) swords pivotal for the story you could also make a claim for metal magic (metal is also one of the elements in far Eastern mythology)..
Alternatively just came to my mind that water magic may be the original magic which bifurcated into ice and fire magic, since ice+fire=water.. 🤷🏻
Well, iirc, the Andals beat the First Men because they had steel whereas the First Men only had iron. They had more powerful metal magic..!
Jesters do oft prove prophets. Shakespeare.
I'm also curious about all the thrones now, specifically the chair-as-an-altar idea. One for each element. Seastone Chair: Water. Iron Throne: Fire. A chair for the White Walkers: Air (the Unseelie Court of Air and Darkness). A Weirwood chair for earth: the Children of the Forest and the Green Men. And whatever gods there are running things need 'godly' men to 'sit' their thrones as the centerpiece of the altar. But for every king, the gods need a prophet (axe and net), for every element. Prophets need a living fire breathed into them by the gods after dying. And the ability to get resurrected comes from their original bloodlines that date back to before the Long Night. And blood comes from marrow, which comes from the bones, which may be why there was so much random bone talk. IDK, but this was a great video! Keep up the good work.
Aeron in Goodbrother's hall: "The Bene Geserit witch must leave..."
😂😂😂😂
you sir are my new favorite UA-cam commenter
@@DavidLightbringer Why thank you, good sir. You have long been one of my favorite UA-camrs.
As someone who was raised catholic, the drowned god religion and the ironborn in general are especially interesting. It all sounds like GRRM's way of expressing how weird catholic theology and imagery is. Only you just see it when you start to know people who weren't raised catholic. Death and suffering and subservience are very much normalized in catholic religiosity and you just don't see how weird it is that your local church has a piece of bone from a saint that died horribly centuries ago, or your grandma has lots of statues of miserable bleeding people, statues your non catholic friends are all afraid of hahaha. So when you read that people are drowning each other and thinking it's amazing, worshipping a dying, rotting god eaten by fish... oh, there's no better way to make a contrapoint. I feel like all this twisted retelling of catholicism is also GRRM's way of affronting traditionalism and fundamentalism in a smart, creative, elevated manner. It hits home. Love George for it!
I'm having so much fun with this ironborn phase you're going through, David. It's probably my favorite subject, so thanks. Amazing stream!
great comments here 💯
Magical Orders stream... what's the bet it turns into a series?
Aeron "Patchface" Greyjoy - makes sense to me!
Drowned men = water wights? I can’t recall Aeron eating anything but a drag on a flagon of sea water. He doesn’t really seem to sleep all that much (like Mel). Can he die?
Great theory. Do you have anything to say about the relationship between the Squishers and the Children of the Forest? Both have been around forever and both are master manipulators, surely they have some sort of relationship.
I think the Crannogman have dna from both, and I think squishers abduct whomever they can
The Greenseers are kind of part and parcel with the Children. And the Others were created when Azor Ahai invaded the green sea by killing NN - probably a CoF. And the Squishers are parallels symbolically to the Others.
Aeron is the drowned gods best hype man
this man was absolutely baked, cheers
hey we're trying to understand the shit Damphair and Patchface are saying how do you expect me to do that sober
@@DavidLightbringer with a really good bong hit you might see the knowledge in the bubbles, like they also did.
Thanks for the great entertainment! Love all your hard work 🖤🖤🖤
Makes sense to me, David. 😃
Muren is Latin and means one who is imprisoned, and 'to mure' is to imprison someone or to wall them in, or someone who is meek. So Murenmure is likely a meek weakling of a man trapped in that keep with no will of his own.
oh wow good research, and what an apt name by George. he's so clever with these
And another association with Theoden in LOTR, before Saruman's enchantment on him is broken. The other is Balon looking grey and unnaturally aged because of the influence of magic (the seastone chair)
It is very much worth reading and talking about George’s short story Guardians in relation to this, there is a ton of extra support there.
Been loving the Ironborn content brother, good stuff! Stay safe and well!
Awesome stream, very solid theory!
He "was killed by a jealous god and now a storm was coming"-- Euron wants to be that jealous god and storm
I'm so excited about your sub number. I've been with you for a long time and it's great to see.
You spoke about the symbolism with one Wolf being like another. But I’m the segment about going down during the Greyjoy Rebellion we have him gambling with “Lions boars and Chickens”. So we have Houses Lannister, Crakehall & Swyft.
I would argue that there is still a chance Patchface didn't die but was weakened from hypothermia, lack of fresh water, and exhaustion from trying to stay alive over two days. The probability of surviving the harrowing experience described in the book is slim, but not impossible. Similarly, I believe Damphair could have endured a comparable ordeal, experiencing a near-death situation.
For instance, Bran didn’t need to die to awaken his power or muddle his memory. Likewise, I don't think Patchface or Damphair would need to die and resurrect to become what they were. A severe traumatic experience would be sufficient.
right sure but this is fantasy and something magical obviously happened to Patches
Nice theory, but ultimately i believe that Aeron's whole thing is, as Alt shift x put, a coping mechanism to feel powerful after all the trauma hes faced at the hands of Euron (he thinks no mortal man can harm him since he's the gods chosen prophet). We see him do this another way ay first, being a party boy and throwing up a fun guy act, to cover up his trauma. But then afterwards he convinces himself that his drowning and recusitation is a phrophets resurrection, because it makes him feel powerful. No doubt, he genuinely believes it, but its because its something that he wants to believe so he convinces himself its true, just like Mel convincing herself Stannis is the true king. Hence why we get all the bravado of thinking in terms of the sea and praise of the gods. Its his way of convincing himself of something he knows, deep down, isn't true.
agree he's dealing with trauma, and we did discuss that, but no he was drowned. it makes too much sense. the idea that the deep ones have been suggesting things to the drowned Priests is too compelling and answers the question of "why Patchface" in very satisfactory fashion
Awesome theory! Well worth the 3 hour deep dive
Just a passing thought, have you ever had a fire made with driftwood? Note the colors of the flames 🔥 sea 🌊 colors…😊
what color is the flame now?
Squisher green…
Hell yea! That was great!
Awesome theory! ❤😊
Theon noted his uncle was very different than he remembered in Clash of Kings
Grand stream!
Yeah, im pretty much convinced of this.
Consider me convinced 👌😊👍 once u showed me the squishy way, I cannot unsee it 🤯
What if Euron controls all four magics: He was a student of Bloodraven and rebelled, he is a greenseer, a warg, and is high on shade of the evening. He sailed to valyria and got a dragon horn and a valyrian armour is going to steel one of Danny's dragons. He was probably drowned and probably rebelled to the deep ones. He will probably get in touch with the others and try to rebel as well, and be king of the ashes.
Was I the only one while reading the book the first time didn't realize how easy his name is pronounced compared to some of the other characters?
I totally read it as "Dam(ph)air with an "F" sound and when the show came out I felt like an idiot.
same, same
sick stream
Good connection LML!!! Too bad academia has a monopoly on reading and giving opinions...I'm glad people like you are changing this one video at a time!
For "the Blind Lord's haunted tower", it reminds me of Damphair saying he got his eyes eaten by fish while drowning.
The Old Gods are the greenseers, right? What happens if the land is flooded? The greenseer is drowned. Do you think Bloodraven need to breath air? Or is he supplied both physically and magically by the weirwood? He has already lived beond his mortal years. What is dead may never die, and that is not dead which can eternal lie... Ergo The Drowned God is a greenseer. Probably under Nagas Hill, right?
If there's a relationship between the Others and the Greenseers (they might be them.?) then it follows that the same is true for the Deep Ones. That they're the result of something that happened with the Greenseers
Thankyou for this one!
I've usually listened to these while at work (which does mean I miss much of the lovely art), and somehow I didn't get what it meant to "Praise Garth" until today.
Thank you. Awesome as always. Appreciate it :)
Biter is a squisher. I know! I know!
@David Lightbringer I vote probably. On another subject, the way you crop cuts off the very left hand side for me. About 2 or 3 letters of the iceberg lists
I thought Aeron being a parallel of Melisandre by way of Patchface was just a plain reading of the text rather than something you had to go digging for a theory foundation lol while the wider Lovecraft themes need you to call on knowledge outside the text 😊
this comment is incoherent, I have no idea what you're trying to say
@@DavidLightbringer it was primarily just "a comment for the algorithm", but I thought my meaning was clear lol
But to explain my thought Martin loves repetition and parallel right? Melisandre is one of the handful of characters who we can see doing magic things that defy normal explanation (although Martin leaves some wiggle room on somethings, but not all of what she does). She's also presented as a true believer and god touched, Moqorro is similarly done (tbf, Thoros is a counterpoint to the whole faith is magical motif and I assume that Martin isn't pushing that idea and that he isn't doing a theophilia and so eventually I assume he's going to go very hard on the "magic comes at a cost". Although as the setting appears to ultimately keep reducing to a Manichean dualistic (simple dichotomy struggle do be in the title, whether that's moderated by "song" would be too much of a detour in this already rambling post 😂) struggle I'm not sure how he is going to grand reveal the devil's bargain - despite all the effort put into showing the dark side of how everyone in Planetos understands their world).
So, we're shown "priests" with magical powers, and as you say repeatedly Mel does not like being in Patchface's presence at all so reinforcing the warring gods/natural realms (whatever label you want) theme and if we can trust her reaction then we're being shown whatever it is that Patchface has going on it's a real thing in universe. So given Martin's love of repetition and ritual it just followed in my mind that Aeron was a direct parallel of the magical priests of who think they're channelling R'hllor and Patchface is the supporting evidence showing it's in universe possible?
And I just meant that if a reader weren't familiar with the Lovecraft verse that the significance of it wouldn't be obvious at this point in the books from just what Martin gives us.
Anyway, thanks for the content.
always wondered about the glasses makes total sense now haha
I'm convinced that Euron will die in a dragon battle over the Gods Eye like Daemon One Eye.
Could be - something has to happen with the Isle of Faces. Bran might visit there
Damp hair is crazy man you can’t say nothing, to that man without being like, “and the drowned God will rise up, and give us salt drinks,” or some shit😂😂 I’m so glad you brought that up.
57:00 about Davos, maybe it’s just a grief. It can make us not think straight. Although I would need to reread it cos barely remember it after years.
comment.
At around the 1:40:00 time, as Aeron reflects on his brother being murdered by a jealous god, the storm god- it makes me think on Euron having him murdered to further his ambitions of power, ultimately intending to be a god himself.
Thanks that was awesome ❤
My theory is that the drowned god just needed a hype man and that’s how I think of damphair hahaha
What is praise garth a euphemism for?
burning the green
Dude Holy shit... Aeron got patchfaced, he's totally right
@david lightbringer Have you looked up elcmar? House tawny I am very confident they are inspired by the people of cair. Look up meaning of Co. Kerry still a real place. The ancient tribe is related to stories of people getting turned into swans. As for the slavery connect the term black Irish made by the brits to dehumanise people. The nettle flail with 9 nettles references a story of a girl making nettle shirts to break the swan curse for her 9 brothers. 9 also how long oden stayed hanging and how long dagda kept it dark so elcmar would not know how much time was passing and would assume angus was his baby.
Ironborn part 2 when
Tim is great, but I’ve missed the David only streams
Variation is the best for sure❤
Euron can't be controlled. He knows the voices aren't gods, but he knows there is power out there for him to acquire.
in the bible, those who are given "eyes to see and ears to hear" are those who are otherwise looked down on and rejected: children, the disabled, the poor, etc. these are the ones who perceive the righteousness of jesus in the new testament and the power and justice of the mosaic law in the old testament. it also represents a symbolic awakening from a state of sin and ritual uncleanliness to a state of purity and holiness, especially in the context of god's chosen people, who are burdened by sin but must keep the law and strive to attain purity.
interpretively, it's an instance of grrm taking a very judeo-christian stock phrase found throughout the bible and applying it to the drowned god adherents. but it's also interesting to think of it as a clue from grrm that "truth" in the ironborn society comes from the being(s) that aeron claims to represent: in his mind, the drowned god; but really in your theory the deep ones who are using him as a mouthpiece. anyone whom aeron reaches through his preaching is opening their eyes and ears to the message that the deep ones want to propagate among the ironborn through aeron. and aeron's eyes to see and ears to hear are opened through his drowning, when the deep ones take control of him
Okay caveat: I was raised barely going to church at all so this might be SUPER tenuous as best, but the Damphair reminds me of a tent revival preacher that believes what he says, but he’s not exactly getting the direct line from the big dude upstairs (or downstairs in this case), while Patchface is the real deal prophet and… doesn’t even know it?
Have you watched Disputed Lands videos ?
There are theories all over the place linking the Damphair to Patchface.
lol where
I pray the gods that I might never be fatchpaced.
Deep ones freak me out more than the others
I never realized how much Jesus comparison there is for Aeron Greyjoy. I mean just with his looks he’s rocking the stereotypical Jesus hair + beard. He himself is an actual prophet spreading the word of his god. And by the end of his chapter in winds he’s practically crucified
It would be cool if euron was dragged to the deep by a kraken! A kraken is technically a leviathan and leviathan can be anything from a whale to a dragon!!! (Wyrms, and worms included!!)
Forgive me if I am late to any theories but I just like how the iron born mirrors skandinav and how it's people where Norse but then where over taken by Christianity.. the way damp hair mirrors an abrahamic or christian priest as well. Also reading rheagar is money....maybe shedding blood while drowning just attracts stuff to eat you instead of revive you.... I reckon it might just be that simple?
1:15:40