If you are a Good Gambler you can generally beat the House, because You Can Choose when you Walk! So for Roulette, I have a Good Betting Spread, but even with that, it's still more than a Few Percent in the Houses Favor over Mine, but I Choose When I Walk! (When I am Up) So I could go to the Local Gambling Hall (much smaller bet sizes allowed, lil more in the Houses favor as well) with $20, play Roulette for an Hour, and I was Good Enough, to Buy a Beer, leave a Couple Tiny Tips, and maybe have $21, maybe a little under $20 (but I am up once you account for Beer and Tiny Tips), and Just Walk while I am up, so, whenever my Buddies where like hey lets going to the Gambling Place, I could always say Yes, until the Place Learned How Much of a Shark I was (Poker, Black Jack), and they Wouldn't Let Me Come Anymore! But I didn't Abuse them with my Genius, and turn a Job Out of the Place, I barely went there all things Considered...
I use to know a Guy, a Foreman's Best Friend, I let stay with me for a Few Weeks, a Professional Gambler. He'd Work One Day at Day Labor, get $40 or $50, buy the cheapest smallest bottle around, and head to the Bar, finding people to Play Pool for a lil Profit, but really Gearing for a Pick Up Game of Poker at someone's Place, and he'd do that till he'd get a few hundred buck, generally not taking too many Days, but it could take a Few Weeks if his living expenses were high, but he was good at being Cool or Chill, and could generally find random couches to crash on, and with his Few Hundred Bucks, he Goes to the Horse Tracks, chances are he Loses, since he is going for a Fair Payout, because he wants at least a thousand dollars, if not Three Thousand to Hit a Small Casino Up, so he could be back to Square One finding Pool and Poker Games Out of the Bar (and Couches to Crash on, which often came with some Fun Poker Games and Drinks), but Eventually he hits it Big at the Horse Tracks, than it's Off to a Small Casino, where again, he goes for Broke, because he wants at least $10,000 if not $20,000 for a Plane Ticket or Car Trip to Las Vagas! And Hit the Big Casinos Up, Where Again, he Goes for Broke, because he wants Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars, but if he ever Gets that Far, he than Decides he Wants Millions! I was already quite the lil poker shark taking the Whole Crew Every Week, only getting in one the $5 Games, and almost always winning, and using that money to play the next game, that's a $40 buy in or so, than I win that, it's me vs the Owner and the Foreman, and that was like a $500+ Game, than I'd win that most weeks, only $5 of it mine, and the Owner would be Steaming, and I'd Quit and Walk with my Winnings! Than Go Easy on the Owner/Boss on the Hours I worked, be back Monday, so in the End I was mostly just taking the Foreman's Money, and his Best Friend the Gambler, he liked that, and taught me a Few More Tricks... But I don't Gamble, because when you are as Smart as me it's just like Cheating all the Time, and People and Places get mad at me, and the thing is I don't care about the Money, I care about Winning! I Have to Be Up! And when I get Up, I Walk, and that's How I almost always Beat the House!
@@TYforKYmy guy… you called yourself a coward you clown 😂 dude only explained what a coward was, not calling anyone a coward. YOU called someone a coward, YOU 😅
we've all sat next to "that guy" at a roulette table, drunkenly trying to explain these exact same details, but with a lot less elegance and clarity. hahahaha
"in 2011 Farmer and Packard broke their silence saying they quit at ten thousand dollars and didn't go any further. They gave in interview from their 15 million dollar luxury villas on a private island"
Ex croupier here. These guys were pretty smart and too bad they didn't rake in more money durin their operation. Just for context, dealers are told, when a guest is winning big, change something with the spins. Either the cylinder speed or the speed of the ball. With practice a mid dealer could threw an opposite side ball, hence having unfair advantage over the players.
I used to use this something like this method. I would sit a close to the wheel so I could visually watch the dealer. #1 If and when they changed the speed of the wheel. #2 Where the ball was let loss onto the wheel and what number it was let go at. #3 I would calculate visually how far back or forward the ball landed from the number it was let go onto the wheel. #4 I would watch this many times before sitting down to play. #5 I would wait until the dealers got comfortable at releasing the ball at the same strength level /speed. #5 I then would figure out where to place my bets quickly and a couple of rotations in. I would place bets on fives number in a section to increase my chances of a hit. #6 If I had a dealer that hardly changed the wheel speed or their own ball throwing speed and I was winning at a good consistency. I then would start playing larger amounts of chips on each number and maybe even start playing up to 6 or 7 numbers in section. This was even with the double zero wheels. If things looked a little out of whack on the spin. Sometimes at the last second I would place a bet on the zero or double zero. Many times I did win on those hunches. All this was back when they gave you cards to mark what numbers had hit, it was sort of a cheat sheet supplied by the casino. It was very useful for my purposes. Also this was back when you could play just $5 a spin. I think now it is up to $10 or $15 a spin at these riverboat casinos. I would go with $50 - $100 at a visit. There was many times I walked away with thousands of dollars. Over time they took the cheat sheets away, had less roulette wheels to choose from and raised the minimum bet. I was getting to hard to play an win. I never kept a detailed accounting But I think I made a pretty tidy sum of money for the many hours of play for those 4 or 5 years of low betting minimums. Another factor why I stopped playing was they never raised the maximum chip bet $ amount per number while also raising the minimum chip bet $ amount to $10- $15.
I would look for dealers who either didn't care or who just didn't notice I was winning cause I would ask for $100 black chips if i hit big and put them in my pocket so if a dealer was changed out they never were sure how much I was up or if I was winning big.
I was at a casino for an eclipse meetup of online friends where we met on the roof to watch the eclipse. The host played some roulette while awaiting dinner time. He got $100 in $2 & $5 chips and placed many bets using the number intersections to cover 4 numbers at once and did this in a square giving him at least 16-24 numbers each bet. Other players had plenty of other numbers covered too. 5 spins in a row the number the ball landed on was a number that had no bet on it and the wrong color for those type of bets. At that point I realized it was totally a rigged game.
Both went on to be wildly successful physicists and businessmen, even founding a stock arbitrage company in the 90’s together. Doyne is considered the founder of econophysics! Amazing story with amazing future successes!
All that had already been done, and proven, including computers beating roulette . . . .before 1964!!!! The innovators and pioneers came long before these guys, who are (were) basically kids, in terms of their age, and their intellect, compared to the real creators. That's the truth. Beating stocks using maths and computers? Started in the early 60s. Beating roulette with physics and remote computers? By the late 50s believe it or not,. Counting cards? Actually, as early as 1930s/1940s. But at the time , only maybe 2 --6 people in the world knew how to actually do it. And they worked out how to do it WITHOUT the aid of computers to run all the simulations. They did it by dealing hands of cards, and pen and paper :) They were the real geniuses of beating casinos. Everything afterwards was just imitation and, in the case of card counting, refinement, not by being smart, but just because computers could now run simulations. (I'm not saying the physics guys in this video are not good, or to belittle their later accomplishments, just that the true innovators were already in another league).
If you sweating and nervous, that means you have not practiced under casino simulation. When I counted cards in Vegas, we practiced for months simulating a busy casino. You have to. Counting was the easy part, prevent getting caught is where the game was won and lost. If you practice enough, you are going to remain calm and relaxed. simple as that
You're absolutely right... let's work together although I'm looking at predicting virtual games like virtual soccer or virtual horse racing there's a pattern nd I'm out to find it lol
card counting is not illegal tho and there is no device on your person. If you get caught you just get kicked out, if they got caught they would get taken to the back room and get a hand removed lol
9 years? That's a long time to still be doing it? Do you have to wear a lot of disguises? Also, have you spent/lost most of the money you accumulated, or smartly squirreled it away?
I just wrote a paper on these guys for my Dynamical Systems and Chaos class. They all went on to be incredibly successful in their fields having all met in Santa Cruz. Their use of an analog computer that was laying around in the engineering department led to significant advances in the field of chaos. I am sure I did not do them justice, but found them and their feats phenomenal.
I’m a former croupier…trained by an ex-Vegas dealer (did for a couple of years). This would all depend on how deep the pockets are on the roulette wheel, friends. If they’re the deep type, when the ball slows down and drops, it’ll go directly into the slot. IF they’re shallow ones, the ball will skip/jump all-over-the-place…& therefore be IMPOSSIBLE to predict. My teacher told stories of a couple of Vegas dealers who were so highly-skilled and experienced…that they could easily know which section the ball would land in. However, if it’s not the correct type of wheel, all the skill in the world would be in vain! I assume that these guys employed the system on the old-fashioned (for nowadays) wheels, which meant that the ball would fall right into the section/number…thereby making their *system* be able to WORK. I’m not sure, but think all of the older wheels were constructed like that.
I can't believe how good the production of this video is. The amount of effort involved is mind boggling! This channel better be blowing up soon! Great job, I'll definitely be checking out more!
It's an interesting story. I'm glad they didn't continue with this strategy. Back in the 70s its likely that they would've lost more than just their money if they were caught cheating, and these days using equipment to cheat at gambling is a huge criminal charge. For a bunch of youths in need of money, exercising prudent caution and not overextending themselves was an unexpectedly smart decision. I could easily see this having went totally the opposite way due to greed.
@@TILT223 They knew they were on thin ice as was. so calling it quits, splitting the profit after getting somewhere safe to do so, and keeping the "fellowship" so their relations didn't go sour was the best option. This also keeps security from going after them again.
About 15 years ago at a casino I noticed that the dealer was incredibly consistent with her throws. I mean VERY consistent. When she rolled, after the ball passed the launch point for the 5th time, that part of the wheel was were the ball would fall. So, I memorized the groupings on the wheel and bet on the quadrant it would fall. My success rate was over 70% and i was able to make a few bucks before heading out.
True nerds already get kicked out. Show up to a casino with a short sleeve button up and glasses with a pocket protector and watch how closely they will look at you
Their mistake was looking like nervous hippy nerds. Vegas in the 70s was about blazers and cocktail dresses, chain smoking, and tipping your waitress. It was a place for their parent's generation.
when i went to vegas a couple months ago, i noticed the croupier would call "no more bets" before the ball even left their hand. looks like they're already plenty privvy to this stuff!
You have to with casinos. You have to factor in their decisions against you if you're successful. Casinos don't like successful bettors and they don't like not being in control. If someone is winning and they don't know why, then they'll make it or you a priority to find out why. The good thing is that there's a phase they have to go through to figure out what you're doing, so you do have an allotted amount of time. It's just important to figure out how much time you have, which is why you have to factor in the proper time to get out while you're ahead. Before they make the decision to destroy your system or cheat against you. Casinos have more technologies now a days, compared to back then, that allow them to basically do whatever they want to. This makes it virtually impossible to trust the casino to give you an unbiased game. They're only unbiased when you're predictable.
As a croupier, I can attest that the only strategy in Roulette is to be very very lucky. Especially with no automation, there are far too many variables to reliably predict the outcome. Also, many of the simulations displayed are incorrect: the wheel and ball must rotate in the opposite direction. The bumpers add quite a bit of random variance as well.
@@philiprice7875: The fact that past results are prominently displayed should be a tell that considering that data for making bets is one of many tricks for suckers. Notice such info isn't displayed at blackjack tables.
Yupp, but as a croupiere I can tell you, if I make an exact wheel speed and exact ball speed, I can kind of like 66 percent of the time get the exact column I want to hit. Sometimes when doing this trying to hit 0 I get it between 1-19 spins. Pretty good ods if I say it myself@philiprice7875
@@Zer0ne-Infinite nice! Admittedly, I spend far more time dealing craps than I do roulette, so I’ve not attempted trying for certain numbers or calculating success rate, but I feel inspired to try it (and I probably will the next time I train someone on roulette!)
Im not 100% sure about the rules at the time, but now it tends to be a clear line for cheating when youre using any kind of electronic device. Even now, most casinos wont let you have your phone out at the table. You have to step away in between rolls, shuffles, etc if you want to answer a text or whatever. The rules are very much still largely dependent on how casino staff feels on any given night, youre just a lot less likely to end up in a hole in the desert now compared to then.
I have a fool proof system. I'm guaranteed to lose 90% of the time. What I do is have someone bet 2 times my bet but on the opposite of my choice. We work as a team and split winnings at the end. Since my choice if played out to the end is a guaranteed loser 90 percent of the time by my oartner betting twice my be we come out a winner
There's no point in gambling, especially in Vegas. Even if you win and casinos can't figure out how they'll just ban you anyway. And in Vegas they have a database of how much every person has won, so if you aren't losing all your money you stick out easily
@@JOEGUNN1990Well I'm sure that's a 'ask for permission prior to arrive' kind of situation. I'm sure they had the guy stream at a certain angle. But on that note, it never hurts to just ask
I went to Berkeley back in the 90s and two of my physics buddies roped me into a similar scheme, except with blackjack. (They would discuss their latest ideas for string theory papers on rides to Vegas and describe their ideas to me. They knew that they were ready to start writing when I could explain their ideas back to them.) Anyways, they explained to me that cheating casinos was kind of like a rite of passage for graduate students in physics, and they treated it as "a proof of math". The thing is my buddies absolutely looked like physics nerds who were there to cheat the casinos - they absolutely did stick out like sore thumbs lol. So I remember our first time at Circus Circus playing blackjack - my buddies were up by alot, and then they just suddenly stop and leave the table at the top of their game. i asked why they stopped, and my buddy whispered to me that they had calculated that they were at the end of their run. The moment he said that to me, we noticed that like a third of the casino was staring straight at us. All the dealers, the janitors, a bunch of the guests, hostesses, everyone was looking right at us. And so we ran! Omg we got out of there so quick! Just bolted. That was our first attempt to do something like what happened in this video. Long story short, my buddies never made tons of money, mostly because the casinos automatically understood who we were (we suspected that we were on a list) and the dealer would do things like give us free drinks and ask us to solve random math problems while dealing the cards (which they would do while still keeping their counts!), but we had a great time that year! On our last momentous trip immediately prior to them getting their PhDs, my buddy told me that we will either come out of this with alot of money or a great story - and we got a great story.
Try this, a buddy of mine has been doing this for more years than I can recall. Look at the board, wait till the 2nd/3rd and 3rd/3rd is dominating the results, he bets one chip on the 2nd set of 12 and the 3rd set of 12. This give you a 66% (well with two green a 64%). If you win it pays 2:1 so you’ll loose one chip but gain 2. He waits till the ball is spun before placing the bet. Dealer does anything different he waits till another spin. Dealers develop muscle memory on spinning the ball during their shift. Odds much better than 48% going black or red or odd even.
@@MrLuigge there's an option to bet on 3rds. Top third, middle and bottom. So if you bet on 2 of these thirds you have the highest chance to win. Let's say you bet one chip each on these 2 thirds and win. You get an extra two chips on the winning third and lose the other third so gain 1 chip.
This is a common strategy, but it's not consistent. Even if you win the spin, it's about risk. You risk 50$ to win 25$. On individual spins you have the advantage, but there's always the chance of that third 12 hitting. It shakes out that you need to win twice for every loss - that being the 3rd 12 or green - just to break even, and more than that for a profit. You have a roughly 66% chance on and INDIVIDUAL spin - but to win two, it would be 66% twice, or roughly 43.5%. The house allows this strategy because it simply doesn't work. As far as waiting for one side to dominate, and trying to read the dealer, most places have dealer changes every 1hr 20m. Maybe you'll win a few spins in that time - but the odda aren't in your favor
And then they bought that it was a collector's item? My first thought was that these are physics students and they're shipping the wheel to a school so the obvious excuse would be that they're performing experiments for a class. Instead they claim they're collecting 'classic' casino games from the manufacturer brand new and the FBI bought it? They didn't ask the kids to see the rest of their collection? Seems kind of far-fetched but also about right for an incompetent government agency.
It's a shame they didn't wait a few years for the tech to advance and try again. A lot of problems, (like heat, bulkyness, etc) could have been solved. Also, the mob was eventually pushed out in the early 80s.
@@_gatsby Hard to say. I only know what's in the video. They were obviously very nervous in the casino. That's a huge red flag for casino attention. And the price of getting caught is pretty high. i.e. Jail time.
@@amazingcato5315 they already knew that risk going in, so they were okay with it.. some of them regrouped, played under the radar, and the tech only improved more and more.. that is ALSO why the guy never talked about it for 20 years, he KNEW his buddies were still doing it. The guy who didn't claim the 118 million when he beat the horse track and says he quit using math to gamble... ended up a multibillionaire and gives TONS to charity.. they fly under the radar and stack money
@@amazingcato5315yeah they should have perfected the tech, and prove the execution. Like do it maybe once every 6 months having different duos hitting different casinos every time.
Well first, no one is forcing you to gamble. Second, a private business can do whatever it wants. Especially when it brings in millions, because then they can lobby to have laws in their favor. I'm not saying it's right, but it is 'legal'.
It is legal to beat the casino. The only device you are allowed to use is your brain. As soon as you start using a computer or machine then it is considered cheating. That is the line you can not cross.
@@xwhite2020 I wish that was the way of the internet. Usually if people find something suspicious but don't know for sure they don't use words like "sus(picious)" or "suspect"... they just say they are lying. I agree there isn't reason to conclude they are lying. However, there most definitely is reason to suspect they are. That was a TON of effort to go to just to call it quits once they knew it worked. Especially considering they didn't brag about it or anything like that. It stayed a secret for a long time for no reason? Come on.
The two who made the tech said it themselves. Also it would be hard to continue without a team, that would mean they would have a complete new set of team and how well they can trust them and training them was hard enough.
@@marsh3133great news! This was actually a tutorial on how to get a gambling addiction, keep going! If you've only lost your house, start chipping away on your relationships and freedom! You do know how to win and beat the system don't ya?
Btw, just subscribed to this channel and have watched 15 uploads in the last 3 days. Really well researched and told in a very interesting manner, tho narratives really build a lot of tension and anticipation, very entertaining and historically informative. I have found myself researching several of these figures afterward.
Ever since I started playing roulette 20 something years ago, I have always played 5 numbers in a row and tried to follow the pattern of the ball. I was relying on luck and never realized that the way I was playing could be done scientifically.
i play only red or black, ive only ever left a casino without a profit 1 time, im just slightly lucky enough to win over the house edge most of the time
@@blowc1612 It was on cable tv back in the day, same exact story. The wires in the foot, the electrical short, everything… iv been wondering why there’s no content on it
@@elijahjakobsen7898 "The book "The Eudenomic Pie" came out in '85, though." Exactly, the book tells the entire story. I just pulled my copy off my bookshelf... copyright 1985.
One thing that made me chuckle- the data shown at 8:16 has nothing to do with roulette, it's just a set of baseball statistics (e.g. batting average, on base & slugging percentage, total bases, and more)
@@damndanny777Casinos will limit the numbers you can bet. The house always wins. They won't let you get 50/50 odds. I tried this on an electronic roulette and I couldn't bet that many numbers. It might be different on a live table though idk
To think this only came to an end because these otherwise-incredibly-smart folks didn't think of a way to receive the information from their computer that wasn't "electrocuting themselves".
@@isambo400maybe a small motor that spins quickly for each unit of data. That’s just all haptic feedback is. Unless they didn’t have small motors back then
The way to beat Vegas is the way that very few want to hear about: ignore it and don’t “gamble.” I say this as someone with millions of dollars at risk everyday in the stock market. I go to Vegas but only bet about $10/year maximum. It’s a waste of time and money to attempt to win there. But people will never learn, that’s for sure!
1. You can only place a bet before Roulette's presenter respins the wheel and makes a spin - So you cannot see the revolution count/wheel speed. 2. No matter what physics, there is no way to predict how the ball is going to enter into the inner wheel - will it make inner revolution, will it bounce or just straight go into the pocket ( Thats why casino wheels have those metal dots - to randomise the ball stop. 3. Even if the wheel is same size, it's often different with slope angles, materials, and how new/old or clean/oily it is, thus making ball circle more/less if comapred between roulettes while spining at the same speed.
I read the book called "The Eudenomic Pie'. According to the book they went to the casino the first time with the computer in their shoe. They won on a couple of spins, then the computer started to melt. They shit themselves then left. That was it! They won fuck all.
No... that's not at all what the book says. I'm wondering if you even read the book. I'm looking at it right now, just pulled it off my bookshelf. It's 324 pages... so it obviously says a LOT more than you claim. They made repetitive trips to Vegas, making improvements with the "shoe computer" each time. They consistently demonstrated that they were able to beat the odds, but they were only able to accurately predict which group of numbers (about 1/8 of the wheel) the ball would fall into and not the exact number. So they beat the odds, but didn't win millions (which would have attracted too much attention anyway.) After it was all over, they found that the money they spent developing the computer (including buying a real roulette wheel for their "lab") and all the expenses for their trips to Vegas, they just about broke even. So they moved on to other things.
@@LeonMortgage I didn't make anything up. I have read the book but it was years ago, but my main recollection was that they made bugger all from 'the system'.
Funny you mention that. Many years ago, I was in Nevada for family reasons and stopped in a tiny casino on the state border. I wasn't there to gamble, but had a few spare bucks in my pocket, so I played some slots. Managed to hit $50 after spending just a couple of dollars on nickel slots. Cashed out, never went back to that town again. So I'm up almost $50 (lifetime). lol
13:15 it's so funny to me that they actually would make an assumption like that, every good croupier knows the wheel by heart and would definitely notice that someone was just betting neighbours
That's true, and to be fair most gamblers know the wherl by heart and only play neighbors. It's a funny old game, and if you have the discipline, which 105% of gamblers don't, you would win a lot more often, of you were happy to win less value. If every player walked away winning 100$ a visit casinos would close down
Some dealers can section where the ball goes after doing it for thousands of hours, thats why the cycle tables over time.. I avoid playing numbers when the tables not at least half full
@@TheNubimusic and thats another reason why I will never play triple zero, they literally put all 3 zeros next to each other as if it wasn’t bad enough
If the problem was the heat, I feel like there was a simple solution to that. The more you win in a row, the more heat. They could have set up with one computer-person and say 10 players. Each player should have a uniquely different playstyle. One might play 4-8 minutes at a time, starting low and gradually increasing bets. Another might just play 3-6 spins at a medium bet. Another might place high bets until they lose the first spin. The computer-person could then sit for 60-180 minutes at a table, playing boringly just losing ordinarily. And then they could take turns joining the computer person to play. In between each visit, they could leave enough time for npcs to lose at the table, for the heat to disappear entirely. If no suckers had lost in between a visit, the computer-person could even signal “backoff” with say a particular bet. They could probably hit vegas for about a week, come back a little while later with other clothes, hairstyles and makeovers and repeat.
They both were good enough to have Wikipedia pages that mostly talk about their physics careers. Doyne Farmer and Norman Packard. I've actually heard of Doyne before watching this video. He did good work at the Santa Fe Institute.
Confused unless u left this out, how did this work exactly? U have to bet before they spin, their whole theory was after the ball spin, so unless I miss a crucial part that maybe rules were different back then & u could make bets down when the ball was spinning, or I missed something cuz this isn’t making sense
Your videos are very similar to Moon, James Jani etc. It's really quite impressive how quickly you manage to release these videos given the solid production quality and animations. I'm very curious how you manage to make videos of this quality so rapidly, as I'm sure they take 30-40 hours a piece.
@@TILT223 They said "University of California". Without the city named, it refers to Berkley. UCB and UCLA would be the logical candidates, particularly regarding physics. UCLA is more than 4 hours away. 3 hour drive might be UC Davis if they went in rush hour traffic
I play Keno on the machines and do quite well usually. Most of my winning was in game rooms, but I had to move around. If you win too often they won't let you back in. There's no science to it. I just know that there's an algorithm to every machine and the RNG generator really isn't random. Once you notice the rhythm a particular machine is paying out, you can raise your bets. Of course this means you've already spent money in the machine and probably lost most of it to get there. To apply the method to get that back and then start making a profit means you can't "win" more than a few hundred to allay suspicions. In the end you're only up by $100-$150 after hours of playing. The nice thing is usually after hitting a big payout, you can keep hitting that button on maximum bet and it'll hit again. I only allow $50 to go back in, because if it goes past that it probably isn't going to hit. But, if you do hit it's another $250 and you can stop and go somewhere else or go home. It's not regular enough to live on, but it's fun to walk out with more than you walked in with.
I dont understand how they can place bets after the wheel and ball have been spun? Theres about 1 second after the ball is dropped before no more bets is called?
It would appear that each time someone does something creative like this, the casino moves the goal posts. Shallower pockets, more fins, calling all bets earlier etc. they really are the worst.
Back then roulette wheels had deep "pockets" so the ball would often stop near where it finally fell. Today the fins between numbers are so tiny the ball bounces wildly after falling, making this system useless.
It would appear that each time someone does something creative like this, the casino moves the goal posts. Shallower pockets, more fins, calling all bets earlier etc. they really are the worst.
@@Statalyzer the casinos make money from people thinking they have a strategy. it encourages players to bet more. even in this comment section there are many people saying they came up with strategies where they would watch the ball,. only rarely do people ever come up with actual winning strategies.
I used to use this something like this method. I would sit a close to the wheel so I could visually watch the dealer. #1 If and when they changed the speed of the wheel. #2 Where the ball was let loss onto the wheel and what number it was let go at. #3 I would calculate visually how far back or forward the ball landed from the number it was let go onto the wheel. #4 I would watch this many times before sitting down to play. #5 I would wait until the dealers got comfortable at releasing the ball at the same strength level /speed. #5 I then would figure out where to place my bets quickly and a couple of rotations in. I would place bets on fives number in a section to increase my chances of a hit. #6 If I had a dealer that hardly changed the wheel speed or their own ball throwing speed and I was winning at a good consistency. I then would start playing larger amounts of chips on each number and maybe even start playing up to 6 or 7 numbers in section. This was even with the double zero wheels. If things looked a little out of whack on the spin. Sometimes at the last second I would place a bet on the zero or double zero. Many times I did win on those hunches. All this was back when they gave you cards to mark what numbers had hit, it was sort of a cheat sheet supplied by the casino. It was very useful for my purposes. Also this was back when you could play just $5 a spin. I think now it is up to $10 or $15 a spin at these riverboat casinos. I would go with $50 - $100 at a visit. There was many times I walked away with thousands of dollars. Over time they took the cheat sheets away, had less roulette wheels to choose from and raised the minimum bet. I was getting to hard to play an win. I never kept a detailed accounting But I think I made a pretty tidy sum of money for the many hours of play for those 4 or 5 years of low betting minimums. Another factor why I stopped playing was they never raised the maximum chip bet $ amount per number while also raising the minimum chip bet $ amount to $10- $15.
Electronic roulette games are set up using these principles of RPMs, etc. Calculus. This means, knowing all the bets before the ball is released, software can input parameters to avoid certain payouts, or create them.
The speed of the rotor slows down throughout the spin. The speed of the ball changes with every spin. There ball also hit ridges that changes it trajectory. I wouldn't be surprised if this video was made by a casino rep.
That factor doesn’t matter, unless the change in the speed of the rotor is random. They’re not measuring the trajectory of the ball, only the end result based on initial inputs
Did you watch the video? It’s not exact every time. It gave them a 20% edge over the house which is huge, in 00 wheels the edge is a little over 5% for the house.
I didn't watch the video, but I read the book. The students that did this bought a real roulette wheel to experiment with. They collected data from thousands of real spins with their roulette wheel, and developed their computer algorithm from that data... which took into account all of these things you mention. Even after all that, it could only predict the result (i.e. where the ball would land) with moderate certainty. But any prediction better than random would give them a betting edge... which is what it did.
@@jrodgers211 Exactly, not quite as brilliant as how Otto Berman (working for Dutch Shultz) skimmed off another 10% or so off the numbers racket in New York.
Technology wise yes. But the house would be a lot more suspicious today than they were then because now they know everyone has a smartphone and is potentially cheating.
As an ex-croupier and computer programmer, I loved this story. If you find it interesting, the book to read detailing these exploits is 'The Newtonian Casino' by Thomas A. Bass. It obviously deserves a credit.
There are several variables that would definitely throw off their calculations. Human spinners being the most unpredictable one. Some spinners are consistent. Others are not. Some speed up the wheel. Some slow it down. Some are just bad at flicking the ball and the spin and speed are all over the map. They are doing what roulette players have done for years. Trying to find a consistent dealer and a relatively stable wheel
No? did you watch the video? like at all? not even the main part? they have to tap in order to input the information to the computer, one set of taps for the wheel and another for the ball. They have 12-18 seconds, that gap is the difference between dealers. Nothing changes other than the time to input
The computer part was quite smart, as well as them quitting before too late - I doubt increasing your odds was not considered cheating as claimed in the video lol.
I do something similar with gaming slots. Sometimes you can see a glitch in the rolling slot or a short faint vibration. Unfortunately with these newer machines it's almost impossible to spot a glitch in the screen or feel any type of odd vibrations. It gets more challenging when the music is played really loud. Pressing or pulling the handle (the one-arm-bandit) at different interval gaps will create better odds than an almost predictable pattern detected by the gaming analogy systems. Some gaming slots will run you dry or have a one hit wonder or the system will keep hitting. Best of luck.
Man, if I were around during their time and if I had money to do so, I would have given these guys any loan they needed after they showed me that it works! A 20% edge is fucking insane!!! 😳
We'd definitely need to make some improvements in it, though. I bet it's a whole lot more possible now. Especially if you could somehow record video and have AI analyze it. That's an unrealistic hope at this point in technology, but the device could definitely be made better now! Bluetooth connection, vibrations instead of shocks, etc...
NEXT: The Roulette Players Who Beat Vegas Casinos With Numbers - ua-cam.com/video/pNyVwgrF4eM/v-deo.html
Caan berry
Correction: Vegas Casinos were run by the Mafia. "The Mob" was an agreed upon fictitious organization that TV and movies were allowed to use.
If you are a Good Gambler you can generally beat the House, because You Can Choose when you Walk! So for Roulette, I have a Good Betting Spread, but even with that, it's still more than a Few Percent in the Houses Favor over Mine, but I Choose When I Walk! (When I am Up) So I could go to the Local Gambling Hall (much smaller bet sizes allowed, lil more in the Houses favor as well) with $20, play Roulette for an Hour, and I was Good Enough, to Buy a Beer, leave a Couple Tiny Tips, and maybe have $21, maybe a little under $20 (but I am up once you account for Beer and Tiny Tips), and Just Walk while I am up, so, whenever my Buddies where like hey lets going to the Gambling Place, I could always say Yes, until the Place Learned How Much of a Shark I was (Poker, Black Jack), and they Wouldn't Let Me Come Anymore! But I didn't Abuse them with my Genius, and turn a Job Out of the Place, I barely went there all things Considered...
I use to know a Guy, a Foreman's Best Friend, I let stay with me for a Few Weeks, a Professional Gambler. He'd Work One Day at Day Labor, get $40 or $50, buy the cheapest smallest bottle around, and head to the Bar, finding people to Play Pool for a lil Profit, but really Gearing for a Pick Up Game of Poker at someone's Place, and he'd do that till he'd get a few hundred buck, generally not taking too many Days, but it could take a Few Weeks if his living expenses were high, but he was good at being Cool or Chill, and could generally find random couches to crash on, and with his Few Hundred Bucks, he Goes to the Horse Tracks, chances are he Loses, since he is going for a Fair Payout, because he wants at least a thousand dollars, if not Three Thousand to Hit a Small Casino Up, so he could be back to Square One finding Pool and Poker Games Out of the Bar (and Couches to Crash on, which often came with some Fun Poker Games and Drinks), but Eventually he hits it Big at the Horse Tracks, than it's Off to a Small Casino, where again, he goes for Broke, because he wants at least $10,000 if not $20,000 for a Plane Ticket or Car Trip to Las Vagas! And Hit the Big Casinos Up, Where Again, he Goes for Broke, because he wants Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars, but if he ever Gets that Far, he than Decides he Wants Millions! I was already quite the lil poker shark taking the Whole Crew Every Week, only getting in one the $5 Games, and almost always winning, and using that money to play the next game, that's a $40 buy in or so, than I win that, it's me vs the Owner and the Foreman, and that was like a $500+ Game, than I'd win that most weeks, only $5 of it mine, and the Owner would be Steaming, and I'd Quit and Walk with my Winnings! Than Go Easy on the Owner/Boss on the Hours I worked, be back Monday, so in the End I was mostly just taking the Foreman's Money, and his Best Friend the Gambler, he liked that, and taught me a Few More Tricks... But I don't Gamble, because when you are as Smart as me it's just like Cheating all the Time, and People and Places get mad at me, and the thing is I don't care about the Money, I care about Winning! I Have to Be Up! And when I get Up, I Walk, and that's How I almost always Beat the House!
Was gonna say is this caan berry
The most surprising thing about this whole story is the fact that... they actually quit when they had the chance.
That's because they're a bunch of smart people and not the average casino visitor.
@@halbgefressen9768 Smart people don't risk their lives and well-being trying to scam casinos for a few bucks.
yep when criminals find a way to make money the get caught for ONE reason GREED
Smart folks avoid jailtime and back-ally beat downs...
Because they don't think like criminals, unlike the casino owners.
Thanks nerds, lost 900 on red
A coward blames others for their own mistakes
@@AZ-hf9ow lol. a coward is someone that sits at his pc, anonymously, and calls other people coward indirectly, you coward. lol
@@TYforKYmy guy… you called yourself a coward you clown 😂 dude only explained what a coward was, not calling anyone a coward. YOU called someone a coward, YOU 😅
@@TYforKYCoward paradox
@@StenDK.shutup coward
we've all sat next to "that guy" at a roulette table, drunkenly trying to explain these exact same details, but with a lot less elegance and clarity. hahahaha
Did he win?
I haven't
Me last night 🤣🤣🤣😂
People know this story?
@@TILT223if he got lucky.
"in 2011 Farmer and Packard broke their silence saying they quit at ten thousand dollars and didn't go any further. They gave in interview from their 15 million dollar luxury villas on a private island"
So much for eating the rich lol
I mean if they were super nerds they took that money and got bitcoin. Ten years later easy millions
Not the only Exploit they found haha
@@deruniversalindikator lmfao
hahaha, right?
Ex croupier here. These guys were pretty smart and too bad they didn't rake in more money durin their operation.
Just for context, dealers are told, when a guest is winning big, change something with the spins. Either the cylinder speed or the speed of the ball. With practice a mid dealer could threw an opposite side ball, hence having unfair advantage over the players.
Someone wins; they change the game (and claim they cheated).
I used to use this something like this method. I would sit a close to the wheel so I could visually watch the dealer. #1 If and when they changed the speed of the wheel. #2 Where the ball was let loss onto the wheel and what number it was let go at. #3 I would calculate visually how far back or forward the ball landed from the number it was let go onto the wheel. #4 I would watch this many times before sitting down to play. #5 I would wait until the dealers got comfortable at releasing the ball at the same strength level /speed. #5 I then would figure out where to place my bets quickly and a couple of rotations in. I would place bets on fives number in a section to increase my chances of a hit. #6 If I had a dealer that hardly changed the wheel speed or their own ball throwing speed and I was winning at a good consistency. I then would start playing larger amounts of chips on each number and maybe even start playing up to 6 or 7 numbers in section. This was even with the double zero wheels. If things looked a little out of whack on the spin. Sometimes at the last second I would place a bet on the zero or double zero. Many times I did win on those hunches.
All this was back when they gave you cards to mark what numbers had hit, it was sort of a cheat sheet supplied by the casino. It was very useful for my purposes. Also this was back when you could play just $5 a spin. I think now it is up to $10 or $15 a spin at these riverboat casinos. I would go with $50 - $100 at a visit. There was many times I walked away with thousands of dollars. Over time they took the cheat sheets away, had less roulette wheels to choose from and raised the minimum bet. I was getting to hard to play an win. I never kept a detailed accounting But I think I made a pretty tidy sum of money for the many hours of play for those 4 or 5 years of low betting minimums. Another factor why I stopped playing was they never raised the maximum chip bet $ amount per number while also raising the minimum chip bet $ amount to $10- $15.
That is when I would walk away. If a dealer was changing the ball speed and slowing or speeding up the wheel.
I would look for dealers who either didn't care or who just didn't notice I was winning cause I would ask for $100 black chips if i hit big and put them in my pocket so if a dealer was changed out they never were sure how much I was up or if I was winning big.
I was at a casino for an eclipse meetup of online friends where we met on the roof to watch the eclipse. The host played some roulette while awaiting dinner time. He got $100 in $2 & $5 chips and placed many bets using the number intersections to cover 4 numbers at once and did this in a square giving him at least 16-24 numbers each bet. Other players had plenty of other numbers covered too. 5 spins in a row the number the ball landed on was a number that had no bet on it and the wrong color for those type of bets. At that point I realized it was totally a rigged game.
Both went on to be wildly successful physicists and businessmen, even founding a stock arbitrage company in the 90’s together. Doyne is considered the founder of econophysics! Amazing story with amazing future successes!
Read a book decades ago called Klynts Law similar story no tech all mind games possibly a true story?
All that had already been done, and proven, including computers beating roulette . . . .before 1964!!!! The innovators and pioneers came long before these guys, who are (were) basically kids, in terms of their age, and their intellect, compared to the real creators. That's the truth.
Beating stocks using maths and computers? Started in the early 60s.
Beating roulette with physics and remote computers? By the late 50s believe it or not,.
Counting cards? Actually, as early as 1930s/1940s. But at the time , only maybe 2 --6 people in the world knew how to actually do it. And they worked out how to do it WITHOUT the aid of computers to run all the simulations. They did it by dealing hands of cards, and pen and paper :)
They were the real geniuses of beating casinos. Everything afterwards was just imitation and, in the case of card counting, refinement, not by being smart, but just because computers could now run simulations.
(I'm not saying the physics guys in this video are not good, or to belittle their later accomplishments, just that the true innovators were already in another league).
Not surprised at all, quant funds have historically been amazingly profitable
@@petersullivan6390nerd
@@bruhmphrey They sound like a pack of losers
If you sweating and nervous, that means you have not practiced under casino simulation. When I counted cards in Vegas, we practiced for months simulating a busy casino. You have to. Counting was the easy part, prevent getting caught is where the game was won and lost. If you practice enough, you are going to remain calm and relaxed. simple as that
You're absolutely right... let's work together although I'm looking at predicting virtual games like virtual soccer or virtual horse racing there's a pattern nd I'm out to find it lol
card counting is not illegal tho and there is no device on your person. If you get caught you just get kicked out, if they got caught they would get taken to the back room and get a hand removed lol
*I’ve been successfully counting cards for 9 years now, and average a profit of just over $110,000/month.*
@@strongestnattyever-videos2247teach me and I’ll spilt the profit
9 years? That's a long time to still be doing it? Do you have to wear a lot of disguises? Also, have you spent/lost most of the money you accumulated, or smartly squirreled it away?
I just wrote a paper on these guys for my Dynamical Systems and Chaos class. They all went on to be incredibly successful in their fields having all met in Santa Cruz. Their use of an analog computer that was laying around in the engineering department led to significant advances in the field of chaos. I am sure I did not do them justice, but found them and their feats phenomenal.
There is a book about their story and exploits. It is called "The Eudaemonic Pie", and it was written by one of the group members, Thomas Bass.
Could you link your paper? I'd like to read it 😅
I’m a former croupier…trained by an ex-Vegas dealer (did for a couple of years).
This would all depend on how deep the pockets are on the roulette wheel, friends.
If they’re the deep type, when the ball slows down and drops, it’ll go directly into the slot. IF they’re shallow ones, the ball will skip/jump all-over-the-place…& therefore be IMPOSSIBLE to predict.
My teacher told stories of a couple of Vegas dealers who were so highly-skilled and experienced…that they could easily know which section the ball would land in. However, if it’s not the correct type of wheel, all the skill in the world would be in vain!
I assume that these guys employed the system on the old-fashioned (for nowadays) wheels, which meant that the ball would fall right into the section/number…thereby making their *system* be able to WORK. I’m not sure, but think all of the older wheels were constructed like that.
I can't believe how good the production of this video is. The amount of effort involved is mind boggling! This channel better be blowing up soon! Great job, I'll definitely be checking out more!
It's an interesting story. I'm glad they didn't continue with this strategy. Back in the 70s its likely that they would've lost more than just their money if they were caught cheating, and these days using equipment to cheat at gambling is a huge criminal charge. For a bunch of youths in need of money, exercising prudent caution and not overextending themselves was an unexpectedly smart decision. I could easily see this having went totally the opposite way due to greed.
A few years back some researchers actually replicated what they did with a smartphone!
That's where the term "86" comes from. They take you 8 miles into the desert and bury you 6 feet deep. Now getting 86'd just means getting kicked out
@@TILT223 I'm sure security was sharper this time though, knowing about smartphones.
Leopard rolls
HAHA, you really think they quit?.. #NAIVE to the MAX!!!!!!
As a nerd, I checked the comments before I watched. Watching now.
Haha 👌 a fascinating story, especially when you consider the ending.
@@TILT223 They knew they were on thin ice as was. so calling it quits, splitting the profit after getting somewhere safe to do so, and keeping the "fellowship" so their relations didn't go sour was the best option. This also keeps security from going after them again.
Lol was doing the same, nice to know I am not the only one. WATCHING NOW 😂😂
@@theodorehsu5023you know the original founders made a couple bands after calling it quits
Sheep do your own research
About 15 years ago at a casino I noticed that the dealer was incredibly consistent with her throws. I mean VERY consistent. When she rolled, after the ball passed the launch point for the 5th time, that part of the wheel was were the ball would fall.
So, I memorized the groupings on the wheel and bet on the quadrant it would fall. My success rate was over 70% and i was able to make a few bucks before heading out.
Its called dealer signature. Unfortunately it wont really work with the lighter balls they use today as there is too much bounce and scatter.
So you stopped ?
oh they let you bet after they spun the ball? that’s unlikely…
@@thequantaleaper How did you do on your other roulette plays, if any
Doubtful you had any
@@JDE19 yes dealer spins the ball and you can still make bets. The dealer will call no more bets while its spinning.
You are gonna get every other nerd banned from casinos at this stage.
lol no
Its a joke you fking idiot@@alexatedw
True nerds already get kicked out. Show up to a casino with a short sleeve button up and glasses with a pocket protector and watch how closely they will look at you
Their mistake was looking like nervous hippy nerds. Vegas in the 70s was about blazers and cocktail dresses, chain smoking, and tipping your waitress. It was a place for their parent's generation.
when i went to vegas a couple months ago, i noticed the croupier would call "no more bets" before the ball even left their hand. looks like they're already plenty privvy to this stuff!
They even calculated their chances of getting caught and beaten and called it quits.
In those days, if they had been caught with those gadgets strapped to them, they would never have been seen again.
You have to with casinos. You have to factor in their decisions against you if you're successful. Casinos don't like successful bettors and they don't like not being in control. If someone is winning and they don't know why, then they'll make it or you a priority to find out why. The good thing is that there's a phase they have to go through to figure out what you're doing, so you do have an allotted amount of time. It's just important to figure out how much time you have, which is why you have to factor in the proper time to get out while you're ahead. Before they make the decision to destroy your system or cheat against you.
Casinos have more technologies now a days, compared to back then, that allow them to basically do whatever they want to. This makes it virtually impossible to trust the casino to give you an unbiased game. They're only unbiased when you're predictable.
@@jfbeami would've said it's a pacemaker
How do you make videos like this with 9.5k subs bro this is fire holy fuck
he has a bigger channel than this
@@Euanker what is it
@@tagurit caan berry pro trader
This looks like a new channel
This youtube format works really well since few month. Many youtube channels are using it to make better documentaries
As a croupier, I can attest that the only strategy in Roulette is to be very very lucky. Especially with no automation, there are far too many variables to reliably predict the outcome. Also, many of the simulations displayed are incorrect: the wheel and ball must rotate in the opposite direction. The bumpers add quite a bit of random variance as well.
also the croupier can change some of the variables slowing ball increasing wheel speed even putting a spin on the ball
@@philiprice7875: The fact that past results are prominently displayed should be a tell that considering that data for making bets is one of many tricks for suckers. Notice such info isn't displayed at blackjack tables.
Yupp, but as a croupiere I can tell you, if I make an exact wheel speed and exact ball speed, I can kind of like 66 percent of the time get the exact column I want to hit. Sometimes when doing this trying to hit 0 I get it between 1-19 spins. Pretty good ods if I say it myself@philiprice7875
@@Zer0ne-Infinite nice! Admittedly, I spend far more time dealing craps than I do roulette, so I’ve not attempted trying for certain numbers or calculating success rate, but I feel inspired to try it (and I probably will the next time I train someone on roulette!)
@@Bubbles_the_Siren nice, it looks Hella sus to do it tho lmao, I'm lucky I'm online and camera shift alot
Im not 100% sure about the rules at the time, but now it tends to be a clear line for cheating when youre using any kind of electronic device. Even now, most casinos wont let you have your phone out at the table. You have to step away in between rolls, shuffles, etc if you want to answer a text or whatever. The rules are very much still largely dependent on how casino staff feels on any given night, youre just a lot less likely to end up in a hole in the desert now compared to then.
I was in Vegas last month. Some places let you use your phone while playing. The guy next to me was livestreaming himself playing with his cell phone.
I have a fool proof system. I'm guaranteed to lose 90% of the time. What I do is have someone bet 2 times my bet but on the opposite of my choice. We work as a team and split winnings at the end. Since my choice if played out to the end is a guaranteed loser 90 percent of the time by my oartner betting twice my be we come out a winner
@@ninobrown9564 lame joke dude
There's no point in gambling, especially in Vegas. Even if you win and casinos can't figure out how they'll just ban you anyway. And in Vegas they have a database of how much every person has won, so if you aren't losing all your money you stick out easily
@@JOEGUNN1990Well I'm sure that's a 'ask for permission prior to arrive' kind of situation. I'm sure they had the guy stream at a certain angle.
But on that note, it never hurts to just ask
When he first tested his system, he was nervous. But on the surface he looked calm and ready
To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting
What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud
@@braz1080 to steal chips, but he kept on forgetting, how to signal out, the guards' doubts staring him down
Mom’s spaghetti
@@braz1080 He opens his mouth but the words won't come out...
An then what, I guess he gets back to reality
The only real way to win at the Casino is to take advantage of the free drinks and not play any of the games.
You only get free drinks if you play.
Bro! This was a very good video man, keep it up! 🚀
Thanks! Will do!
I went to Berkeley back in the 90s and two of my physics buddies roped me into a similar scheme, except with blackjack. (They would discuss their latest ideas for string theory papers on rides to Vegas and describe their ideas to me. They knew that they were ready to start writing when I could explain their ideas back to them.) Anyways, they explained to me that cheating casinos was kind of like a rite of passage for graduate students in physics, and they treated it as "a proof of math". The thing is my buddies absolutely looked like physics nerds who were there to cheat the casinos - they absolutely did stick out like sore thumbs lol. So I remember our first time at Circus Circus playing blackjack - my buddies were up by alot, and then they just suddenly stop and leave the table at the top of their game. i asked why they stopped, and my buddy whispered to me that they had calculated that they were at the end of their run. The moment he said that to me, we noticed that like a third of the casino was staring straight at us. All the dealers, the janitors, a bunch of the guests, hostesses, everyone was looking right at us. And so we ran! Omg we got out of there so quick! Just bolted. That was our first attempt to do something like what happened in this video. Long story short, my buddies never made tons of money, mostly because the casinos automatically understood who we were (we suspected that we were on a list) and the dealer would do things like give us free drinks and ask us to solve random math problems while dealing the cards (which they would do while still keeping their counts!), but we had a great time that year! On our last momentous trip immediately prior to them getting their PhDs, my buddy told me that we will either come out of this with alot of money or a great story - and we got a great story.
No
@@billballinger5622Yes
@@billballinger5622 lol yes you got me - its all lies! Because you said so!
back to writingprompts my guy, more practice.
No one was chasing you. If they were you wouldn't have gotten out believe me.
Try this, a buddy of mine has been doing this for more years than I can recall. Look at the board, wait till the 2nd/3rd and 3rd/3rd is dominating the results, he bets one chip on the 2nd set of 12 and the 3rd set of 12. This give you a 66% (well with two green a 64%). If you win it pays 2:1 so you’ll loose one chip but gain 2. He waits till the ball is spun before placing the bet. Dealer does anything different he waits till another spin. Dealers develop muscle memory on spinning the ball during their shift. Odds much better than 48% going black or red or odd even.
you and your friend are both retarded
hey, I got curious to understand better how this works, you mind explaining again in more detail? I don't plan on playing, I just got curious.
@@MrLuigge there's an option to bet on 3rds. Top third, middle and bottom. So if you bet on 2 of these thirds you have the highest chance to win. Let's say you bet one chip each on these 2 thirds and win. You get an extra two chips on the winning third and lose the other third so gain 1 chip.
@@bigload6 ah I see but let's say you kept betting like that and winning, they could eventually kick you out of the place lol
This is a common strategy, but it's not consistent. Even if you win the spin, it's about risk. You risk 50$ to win 25$. On individual spins you have the advantage, but there's always the chance of that third 12 hitting.
It shakes out that you need to win twice for every loss - that being the 3rd 12 or green - just to break even, and more than that for a profit. You have a roughly 66% chance on and INDIVIDUAL spin - but to win two, it would be 66% twice, or roughly 43.5%.
The house allows this strategy because it simply doesn't work. As far as waiting for one side to dominate, and trying to read the dealer, most places have dealer changes every 1hr 20m. Maybe you'll win a few spins in that time - but the odda aren't in your favor
The fbi investigating college kids buying a roulette wheel is hilarious.
The FBI have little to do. Not exactly known for their brains, but sure love to act tough.
And then they bought that it was a collector's item? My first thought was that these are physics students and they're shipping the wheel to a school so the obvious excuse would be that they're performing experiments for a class. Instead they claim they're collecting 'classic' casino games from the manufacturer brand new and the FBI bought it? They didn't ask the kids to see the rest of their collection? Seems kind of far-fetched but also about right for an incompetent government agency.
Our money taken and put to work...
i mean it is illegal to have real bets on roulette without a casino permit
in the EU that fbi thing wouldn't happen.
Love these videos. I love how you don't waste time with a long outro, but a 10 second summary to close the narrative would help.
It's a shame they didn't wait a few years for the tech to advance and try again. A lot of problems, (like heat, bulkyness, etc) could have been solved. Also, the mob was eventually pushed out in the early 80s.
think.. you REALLY think they ALL just walked away from a money printer? ... chaaaa
@@_gatsby Hard to say. I only know what's in the video. They were obviously very nervous in the casino. That's a huge red flag for casino attention. And the price of getting caught is pretty high. i.e. Jail time.
@@amazingcato5315 they already knew that risk going in, so they were okay with it.. some of them regrouped, played under the radar, and the tech only improved more and more.. that is ALSO why the guy never talked about it for 20 years, he KNEW his buddies were still doing it. The guy who didn't claim the 118 million when he beat the horse track and says he quit using math to gamble... ended up a multibillionaire and gives TONS to charity.. they fly under the radar and stack money
@@_gatsbywhy do people like you love to make assumptions and make up your own narratives based on zero facts.
@@amazingcato5315yeah they should have perfected the tech, and prove the execution. Like do it maybe once every 6 months having different duos hitting different casinos every time.
This video should have 1 million views. Well done!
Too kind, thanks.
Almost there!
@@TILT223 7 days later and were there
It has 2
You're channel will blow up soon, got a sub from me. Quality is getting better and better.
When one is so dedicated to youtube that they become channel
How can casinos be legal when if you beat them it's illegal?
the laws are only to protect the wealthy is why.
this really nice american thing called LOBBYING
Well first, no one is forcing you to gamble. Second, a private business can do whatever it wants. Especially when it brings in millions, because then they can lobby to have laws in their favor. I'm not saying it's right, but it is 'legal'.
It is legal to beat the casino. The only device you are allowed to use is your brain. As soon as you start using a computer or machine then it is considered cheating. That is the line you can not cross.
It's not illegal
That ending was very sus. I suspect they just broke the team up, claiming they were ending the experiment, but kept on going themselves.
Yea I hope dude got arrested or something sounds like he became an informant for the casinos
Yes this is the way of the internet. You suspect that you know more than you possibly could.
@@xwhite2020 I wish that was the way of the internet. Usually if people find something suspicious but don't know for sure they don't use words like "sus(picious)" or "suspect"... they just say they are lying.
I agree there isn't reason to conclude they are lying. However, there most definitely is reason to suspect they are. That was a TON of effort to go to just to call it quits once they knew it worked. Especially considering they didn't brag about it or anything like that. It stayed a secret for a long time for no reason? Come on.
The two who made the tech said it themselves. Also it would be hard to continue without a team, that would mean they would have a complete new set of team and how well they can trust them and training them was hard enough.
@@101perspective ok they kept going, got rich then told everyone they shut it down and didn't get rich. Internet logic.
1.5 million views with under 20k subscribers?
DONT STOP, BRO
Incredible video, great job!
Instructions unclear. I just lost my house.
Good news! This was actually a tutorial on how to lose your house!
@@marsh3133 lol
@@marsh3133great news! This was actually a tutorial on how to get a gambling addiction, keep going! If you've only lost your house, start chipping away on your relationships and freedom! You do know how to win and beat the system don't ya?
😂
Btw, just subscribed to this channel and have watched 15 uploads in the last 3 days. Really well researched and told in a very interesting manner, tho narratives really build a lot of tension and anticipation, very entertaining and historically informative. I have found myself researching several of these figures afterward.
Did this in the early 2000’s, I now have a prosthetic hand
Luke!
Congrats bro. Prosthetic limbs are expensive, you must have cashed out big time!
And does it have a computer built into it? If not, why not?
Ever since I started playing roulette 20 something years ago, I have always played 5 numbers in a row and tried to follow the pattern of the ball. I was relying on luck and never realized that the way I was playing could be done scientifically.
what HURTS is when it lands 1 number away from your section
i dont get it wat u mean? 5 numbers in a row eg?
14.1.20.33.16
have you noticed how when you place ur bets you have no idea when the ball will be released??
i play only red or black, ive only ever left a casino without a profit 1 time, im just slightly lucky enough to win over the house edge most of the time
Saw this in a video like 20 years ago, been looking for the story ever since
That would be impossible since the guy didn't come out with the story in 2012.
@@blowc1612 It was on cable tv back in the day, same exact story. The wires in the foot, the electrical short, everything… iv been wondering why there’s no content on it
@@blowc1612 The book "The Eudenomic Pie" came out in '85, though.
@@elijahjakobsen7898 "The book "The Eudenomic Pie" came out in '85, though."
Exactly, the book tells the entire story. I just pulled my copy off my bookshelf... copyright 1985.
The book is called “the Newtonian casino” in the uk.
One thing that made me chuckle- the data shown at 8:16 has nothing to do with roulette, it's just a set of baseball statistics (e.g. batting average, on base & slugging percentage, total bases, and more)
backed that one up, too. was wondering if someone else did
@@kennyktatwork2 shovelware-esque drama tuber
whatcha expect?
Been getting daily updates from 4ra on match highlights, loving it! 📱🏏
I tried to follow the science of this but my head exploded
Now imagine creating the science of it from scratch without someone explaining 🤯. This is why roulette is considered unbeatable by most!
Just bet on 19 numbers including 0 and you beat the roulette but make sure you have a lot of money for death rounds
@@damndanny777Casinos will limit the numbers you can bet. The house always wins. They won't let you get 50/50 odds. I tried this on an electronic roulette and I couldn't bet that many numbers. It might be different on a live table though idk
@@damndanny777agree 100% it works but you need lot money for multi +×+×+×😅. Unlimited bet other why can not.
🤣🤣🤣POW
very well edited video, reminds me of Disrupt. subscribed, really interesting story mate
At least until disrupt went crazy lol
To think this only came to an end because these otherwise-incredibly-smart folks didn't think of a way to receive the information from their computer that wasn't "electrocuting themselves".
Back in the 1970's, what do you suggest they should have done?
The technology just wasn't there at the moment.
@@isambo400maybe a small motor that spins quickly for each unit of data. That’s just all haptic feedback is. Unless they didn’t have small motors back then
@Raganlueck even if they did they would make noise.
@@Raganlueck the motors used in those small cassette tape recorders would have worked. They were brushless too.
Impressive video! Great engagement too. I dont think I've ever scrolled through a thousand comments on a channel before!
You and me both! Thanks, really appreciate the feedback. Please come back to see more :)
It's all science and games until the ball starts jumping across the numbers board like crazy
Happens almost all the time nowadays
This is one of the videos that you watch over and over again because it’s so good
Thanks that's a crazy comment right there!
I watched it again and again, but for a simpler reason : I didn't understand a thing.
Once again, a great video. Thank you, sir!
Thanks again! Appreciated.
gotta love "vengeance trumps greed" stories. they don't always work out, but when they do it's satisfying
A very satisfying twist, so many end badly.
The way to beat Vegas is the way that very few want to hear about: ignore it and don’t “gamble.” I say this as someone with millions of dollars at risk everyday in the stock market. I go to Vegas but only bet about $10/year maximum. It’s a waste of time and money to attempt to win there. But people will never learn, that’s for sure!
yeah you dont have millions of dollars
So you gamble every year at Vegas but your advice to everyone else is that we should never gamble at Vegas??? Um hypocrite much mr “millionaire”? 😂
Earned a sub here, this story was definitely interesting but the production and your style of story telling was phenomenal
"we're not using this roulette wheel for gambling"
"I'm troubled by a certain word within this statement"
1 billion on red
I will go 1 billion on ( 0 ) and dbl up 5 times ? but this time i wont spend my bus fare ?
Unfortunately , they have a limit on what you can bet.......
1. You can only place a bet before Roulette's presenter respins the wheel and makes a spin - So you cannot see the revolution count/wheel speed.
2. No matter what physics, there is no way to predict how the ball is going to enter into the inner wheel - will it make inner revolution, will it bounce or just straight go into the pocket ( Thats why casino wheels have those metal dots - to randomise the ball stop.
3. Even if the wheel is same size, it's often different with slope angles, materials, and how new/old or clean/oily it is, thus making ball circle more/less if comapred between roulettes while spining at the same speed.
That’s a great idea! Betting is always more fun with friends around, and those bonuses for referring them seem pretty generous.
I read the book called "The Eudenomic Pie'. According to the book they went to the casino the first time with the computer in their shoe. They won on a couple of spins, then the computer started to melt. They shit themselves then left. That was it! They won fuck all.
No... that's not at all what the book says. I'm wondering if you even read the book. I'm looking at it right now, just pulled it off my bookshelf. It's 324 pages... so it obviously says a LOT more than you claim.
They made repetitive trips to Vegas, making improvements with the "shoe computer" each time. They consistently demonstrated that they were able to beat the odds, but they were only able to accurately predict which group of numbers (about 1/8 of the wheel) the ball would fall into and not the exact number. So they beat the odds, but didn't win millions (which would have attracted too much attention anyway.)
After it was all over, they found that the money they spent developing the computer (including buying a real roulette wheel for their "lab") and all the expenses for their trips to Vegas, they just about broke even. So they moved on to other things.
@@IdRatherBeDiving-vr5gk Well it was a few decades ago i read it. But the gist I posted was the same. They made nothing from it.
Why did you make this up? It's easily disproven with access to the book
@@LeonMortgage I didn't make anything up. I have read the book but it was years ago, but my main recollection was that they made bugger all from 'the system'.
The best strategy to beat the casino is always not to play.
or buy shares in the casino
Funny you mention that. Many years ago, I was in Nevada for family reasons and stopped in a tiny casino on the state border. I wasn't there to gamble, but had a few spare bucks in my pocket, so I played some slots. Managed to hit $50 after spending just a couple of dollars on nickel slots. Cashed out, never went back to that town again. So I'm up almost $50 (lifetime). lol
But eat the free snacks!
BOOOOOOOOO
Every time I gamble, I win.
I've never gambled.
Very intriguing video, good work team
Yes, those reload bonuses can be a lifesaver, especially when you hit a rough patch. Helps to keep playing without breaking the bank
13:15 it's so funny to me that they actually would make an assumption like that, every good croupier knows the wheel by heart and would definitely notice that someone was just betting neighbours
Ah true 😂
That's true, and to be fair most gamblers know the wherl by heart and only play neighbors. It's a funny old game, and if you have the discipline, which 105% of gamblers don't, you would win a lot more often, of you were happy to win less value. If every player walked away winning 100$ a visit casinos would close down
I would love a to watch a full movie or something about, like '21'
Ye a movie or doc movie would be good about this
Always love your videos
Thanks, I always love your comments!
👏 👏
Damn thats a fire plot for a series 🗣️
Had an amazing winning streak on 4ra last week, can’t wait to play again! 🏆🎉
A lot of haters in the comments. Great production and a great video. Keep it up.
Thank you, always keen to understand why... Perhaps it's because roulette takes so many people's money?!
Great content ❤
There are only 2ways you can win gambling. And only if you're the best. Poker and sports betting
They are certainly the places you're most likely to find an edge. Blackjack too.
There’s only 2 types of gamblers. Winners and quitters
yea the number of horses i have bet on who after i bet called themselves "pet food" is unreal
the only way to win at gambling is to OWN A CASINO
@@jrodgers211 There are also losers and addicts.
Some dealers can section where the ball goes after doing it for thousands of hours, thats why the cycle tables over time.. I avoid playing numbers when the tables not at least half full
yep a good croupier can hit a corner almost every time.
@@TheNubimusic and thats another reason why I will never play triple zero, they literally put all 3 zeros next to each other as if it wasn’t bad enough
If the problem was the heat, I feel like there was a simple solution to that. The more you win in a row, the more heat.
They could have set up with one computer-person and say 10 players. Each player should have a uniquely different playstyle. One might play 4-8 minutes at a time, starting low and gradually increasing bets. Another might just play 3-6 spins at a medium bet. Another might place high bets until they lose the first spin.
The computer-person could then sit for 60-180 minutes at a table, playing boringly just losing ordinarily. And then they could take turns joining the computer person to play. In between each visit, they could leave enough time for npcs to lose at the table, for the heat to disappear entirely. If no suckers had lost in between a visit, the computer-person could even signal “backoff” with say a particular bet.
They could probably hit vegas for about a week, come back a little while later with other clothes, hairstyles and makeovers and repeat.
Much better story than expected. Also im very impressed they stopped after winning some. i think it was way too stresfull for then to continue
I thought this would be a story about roulette wheel bias. I was pleasanrly surprised this video was about a strategy I'd never heard of before.
You wonder if they ever went onto to go back to physics with that stake they won.
You'd think they must have at least a little wouldn't you? That last quote was a bit telling.
They both were good enough to have Wikipedia pages that mostly talk about their physics careers. Doyne Farmer and Norman Packard. I've actually heard of Doyne before watching this video. He did good work at the Santa Fe Institute.
In one situation it stopped working. A big fat guy was leaning on the table
Confused unless u left this out, how did this work exactly?
U have to bet before they spin, their whole theory was after the ball spin, so unless I miss a crucial part that maybe rules were different back then & u could make bets down when the ball was spinning, or I missed something cuz this isn’t making sense
No you have about 10 seconds after the ball is spun
Your videos are very similar to Moon, James Jani etc. It's really quite impressive how quickly you manage to release these videos given the solid production quality and animations. I'm very curious how you manage to make videos of this quality so rapidly, as I'm sure they take 30-40 hours a piece.
Multiple people.
The University of California has 9 campuses.
The two guys in this story went to the University of California, Santa Cruz (UC Santa Cruz).
Can’t you just tell the fbi you’re studying roulette to beat casinos? That can’t be illegal.
Why does it take him 3 hours to drive from his dorm in Berkeley to the port of Oakland? Google says that the walk is about 2 hours
It wasn't Berkeley
@@TILT223 They said "University of California". Without the city named, it refers to Berkley. UCB and UCLA would be the logical candidates, particularly regarding physics. UCLA is more than 4 hours away. 3 hour drive might be UC Davis if they went in rush hour traffic
@@kander2they went to UC Santa Cruz
Traffic.
Dont they only drop the ball when after bets are placed?
Now they do...
Had a question about a game, and 4ra's support was right there, super quick! 🕒🙌
I play Keno on the machines and do quite well usually. Most of my winning was in game rooms, but I had to move around. If you win too often they won't let you back in. There's no science to it. I just know that there's an algorithm to every machine and the RNG generator really isn't random. Once you notice the rhythm a particular machine is paying out, you can raise your bets. Of course this means you've already spent money in the machine and probably lost most of it to get there. To apply the method to get that back and then start making a profit means you can't "win" more than a few hundred to allay suspicions. In the end you're only up by $100-$150 after hours of playing. The nice thing is usually after hitting a big payout, you can keep hitting that button on maximum bet and it'll hit again. I only allow $50 to go back in, because if it goes past that it probably isn't going to hit. But, if you do hit it's another $250 and you can stop and go somewhere else or go home. It's not regular enough to live on, but it's fun to walk out with more than you walked in with.
"Yeah man, I got a degree in gambling.. No, I'm not addicted."
I dont understand how they can place bets after the wheel and ball have been spun? Theres about 1 second after the ball is dropped before no more bets is called?
Typically the dealer will spin the ball and let people place bets until it slows to a certain speed or roughly 10 second.
It would appear that each time someone does something creative like this, the casino moves the goal posts. Shallower pockets, more fins, calling all bets earlier etc. they really are the worst.
@@TILT223 if it's true that the rule was introduced after this then it makes it more impressive to be honest! Btw really great video
@@TILT223as someone who's never played at a table I figured it's always the case they stop bets before they spin. That just... makes sense.
@@fredthompson9825what new rule are you referring to. You still get around 6-10 seconds after the dealer spins to place bets.
Back then roulette wheels had deep "pockets" so the ball would often stop near where it finally fell. Today the fins between numbers are so tiny the ball bounces wildly after falling, making this system useless.
It would appear that each time someone does something creative like this, the casino moves the goal posts. Shallower pockets, more fins, calling all bets earlier etc. they really are the worst.
I like the smaller fins, i feel like ive had more luck with balls bouncing in vs out
@@TILT223just having you have to bet before the ball goes in motion at all makes sense anyway.
@@Statalyzer the casinos make money from people thinking they have a strategy. it encourages players to bet more. even in this comment section there are many people saying they came up with strategies where they would watch the ball,. only rarely do people ever come up with actual winning strategies.
I keep coming back to 4ra for the crisp and clear graphics, feels like a video game 🎮👾
I need Terrence Howsrd to explain this to me.
I used to use this something like this method. I would sit a close to the wheel so I could visually watch the dealer. #1 If and when they changed the speed of the wheel. #2 Where the ball was let loss onto the wheel and what number it was let go at. #3 I would calculate visually how far back or forward the ball landed from the number it was let go onto the wheel. #4 I would watch this many times before sitting down to play. #5 I would wait until the dealers got comfortable at releasing the ball at the same strength level /speed. #5 I then would figure out where to place my bets quickly and a couple of rotations in. I would place bets on fives number in a section to increase my chances of a hit. #6 If I had a dealer that hardly changed the wheel speed or their own ball throwing speed and I was winning at a good consistency. I then would start playing larger amounts of chips on each number and maybe even start playing up to 6 or 7 numbers in section. This was even with the double zero wheels. If things looked a little out of whack on the spin. Sometimes at the last second I would place a bet on the zero or double zero. Many times I did win on those hunches.
All this was back when they gave you cards to mark what numbers had hit, it was sort of a cheat sheet supplied by the casino. It was very useful for my purposes. Also this was back when you could play just $5 a spin. I think now it is up to $10 or $15 a spin at these riverboat casinos. I would go with $50 - $100 at a visit. There was many times I walked away with thousands of dollars. Over time they took the cheat sheets away, had less roulette wheels to choose from and raised the minimum bet. I was getting to hard to play an win. I never kept a detailed accounting But I think I made a pretty tidy sum of money for the many hours of play for those 4 or 5 years of low betting minimums. Another factor why I stopped playing was they never raised the maximum chip bet $ amount per number while also raising the minimum chip bet $ amount to $10- $15.
You need a heavy set of balls to even think to steal from the mafia.
I've seen this story before and I love it. Remember that show "Beating Vegas" I think it was on the history Channel. I loved that show.
Electronic roulette games are set up using these principles of RPMs, etc. Calculus. This means, knowing all the bets before the ball is released, software can input parameters to avoid certain payouts, or create them.
The speed of the rotor slows down throughout the spin. The speed of the ball changes with every spin. There ball also hit ridges that changes it trajectory. I wouldn't be surprised if this video was made by a casino rep.
That factor doesn’t matter, unless the change in the speed of the rotor is random.
They’re not measuring the trajectory of the ball, only the end result based on initial inputs
Did you watch the video? It’s not exact every time. It gave them a 20% edge over the house which is huge, in 00 wheels the edge is a little over 5% for the house.
I didn't watch the video, but I read the book. The students that did this bought a real roulette wheel to experiment with. They collected data from thousands of real spins with their roulette wheel, and developed their computer algorithm from that data... which took into account all of these things you mention. Even after all that, it could only predict the result (i.e. where the ball would land) with moderate certainty. But any prediction better than random would give them a betting edge... which is what it did.
@@jrodgers211 Exactly, not quite as brilliant as how Otto Berman (working for Dutch Shultz) skimmed off another 10% or so off the numbers racket in New York.
Their*
This would have been so much easier in smart phone era lol
Technology wise yes. But the house would be a lot more suspicious today than they were then because now they know everyone has a smartphone and is potentially cheating.
This is so cool fr
As an ex-croupier and computer programmer, I loved this story. If you find it interesting, the book to read detailing these exploits is 'The Newtonian Casino' by Thomas A. Bass. It obviously deserves a credit.
Others comments said similar 👍
@@TILT223 Thanks TILT, I confess I didn't read all fourteen hundred. Apparently Doyne went legit afterwards and went for the financial markets.
There are several variables that would definitely throw off their calculations. Human spinners being the most unpredictable one. Some spinners are consistent. Others are not. Some speed up the wheel. Some slow it down. Some are just bad at flicking the ball and the spin and speed are all over the map. They are doing what roulette players have done for years. Trying to find a consistent dealer and a relatively stable wheel
No? did you watch the video? like at all? not even the main part? they have to tap in order to input the information to the computer, one set of taps for the wheel and another for the ball. They have 12-18 seconds, that gap is the difference between dealers. Nothing changes other than the time to input
Nice BASEBALL stat sheet at 8:15... lol
The computer part was quite smart, as well as them quitting before too late - I doubt increasing your odds was not considered cheating as claimed in the video lol.
Nerds have been beating the Casinos with math since they began.
I do something similar with gaming slots. Sometimes you can see a glitch in the rolling slot or a short faint vibration. Unfortunately with these newer machines it's almost impossible to spot a glitch in the screen or feel any type of odd vibrations. It gets more challenging when the music is played really loud. Pressing or pulling the handle (the one-arm-bandit) at different interval gaps will create better odds than an almost predictable pattern detected by the gaming analogy systems. Some gaming slots will run you dry or have a one hit wonder or the system will keep hitting. Best of luck.
Your video gives the vibes of Magnus Media yt channel vibes. Great job!
Man, if I were around during their time and if I had money to do so, I would have given these guys any loan they needed after they showed me that it works! A 20% edge is fucking insane!!! 😳
We'd definitely need to make some improvements in it, though. I bet it's a whole lot more possible now. Especially if you could somehow record video and have AI analyze it. That's an unrealistic hope at this point in technology, but the device could definitely be made better now! Bluetooth connection, vibrations instead of shocks, etc...
Researchers replicated it with a smart phone I believe.