after a heat engager you're +17, but during those 17 frames the opponent can block while still not being actionable, meanwhile moves that give follow ups (like paul ss3 which is +12) do not let the opponent block, so you can get a move that is up to 12f start up
Yeah i had no clue wtf was going on, I love tekken but it sure does have alot of "this is how things normally work.... Except here, and here, also here...." Moments.
They tend to communicate this idea with attacks that leave the attacker plus, but recovering from their own attack animation itself. Reina's example low is +13 but she spins around before you're able to attack again, so that the idea is that she can't get a guaranteed hit after such a commital attack
Something else worth noting that's also deceiving is that it's not like they can guard for the full 13 frames in "13g". It's highly move dependent but take for example Steve's 2,1~PKB When Steve transitions into PKB he becomes +13g, but without the PKB transition is +6 on hit (without the g). The implication here is that if Steve were to have a 6 frame follow-up for example, then in spite of the move being 13g it would still work because there are 6 frames which they can't guard. This is really common for stance transition characters where they get more frames by going into a stance after a string Why this is also relevant is on backturn combos. In backturn the guard frames are different! Hence its theoretically possible to do infinites with law and steve in backturn combos and stance cancels. Doesn't apply to weird moves like Nina's evil mist however, even backturn they can guard on hit.
I actually haven't played T8 yet so this may or may not apply... I remember there were some moves in T7 that would have very large plus frames where a follow-up would be guaranteed for the first few frames in the advantage and then the rest of the advantage would be guard frames. For example, a move that might be +17, where anything i13 or faster would be guaranteed, and anything i14 to i17 could be blocked. These numbers are just an example though, I can't remember any specific examples because it's been a long time since I played.
Back in the good old days we all used Geppo for frame data. Move like this was listed as +17g. Now T8 just says +17, making it hard to understand. The ”g” in the end simply means that opponent is in forced guard state instead of recovery state. All they can do is hold db to low block or b to standing block. Nothing else is possible. +17g happens now much more often due to heat engagers and wall crush. Game should have visualized it better in the frame data UI.
I know it certain situation you get a guaranteed grab as well because it combos; for example with Bryan if you do b3 and the opponent mashes follow up with d2 and you should trade but Bryan now has 12+ frames of advantage making his uf 1+2 guaranteed I believe I know for a fact it combos
Hey bro, I apologize for being on the wrong forum cuz I’m old so You Tube is the only forum I have to tell you, Thank-you! You r same guy with guides on Reddit? If not disregard but I believe u r and I wanted to let u know that u and other content creators have made my Tekken Experience really enjoyable! I use those guides when I’m trying to lab other characters other than Kazuya! And your guides have made it so easy for me! I apologize for not being on twitch or twitter but I wanted to let u know that bruh!
Good stuff man. I was just doing some labbing the other week, I think against Devil Jin. You can step or intterupt a string if the followup hit, for example is something like i26? It's something like that. So DJ has a string where you can step the second hit - the move comes out at like i26, or maybe it's i28, but you can't step the 3rd followup in the string and it's like i30-i32? I need to go check, but I just recall that standing out to me. I'm assuming some moves have inherrent jailing properties or whatever.
Love your very educational videos I would appreciated of u make video about perfect electric that I'm struggling so much about because some times I can do it but I feeling I miss one frame though its says not i can by kazuya forward 3 it is _13 on block so I should be able to punish it by perfect electric but he can block before it connects can u help pls
@@aryanshyam8933 you're saying it like other FG had 50 characters (less than we can expect with all the DLC for Tekken 8) with 120+ commands each character just like Tekken...
@@ivyy8221 its not that complicated if you know how to learn the game the correct way you just need to know your i10 to i15 to 16 punishes your some key moves and give a little time to character which you like and learn some combos learn how to move in 3d space and get the hang of the character i can guide you if you are interested in learning it would be my pleasure and you might have good time with the game
@@ivyy8221 its not that complicated brother you just need to learn just your character first and learn his key moves and frames hope you have fun with the game if you would need any help i would be happy to help you so that it can make your experience enjoyable
Thanks for the explanation, Tekken as a game really has a huge amount of depth. How do you think people who probably do not have all this info at hand (such as those players in Pakistan) are able to dominate the game at the highest level?
Pakistani players definitely have a lot of info. They are a good considerable amount of viewers for my channel, for example. But going back to when resources were limited (around TTT to T5 era), having a strong offline community helped, 'cause then you have people to talk about stuff. That's the thing that helps players develop the most, imo.
Thanks for explaining this, i always did find it weird how Tekken chooses who gets a guaranteed hit lol.
I hope they color code the plus frame data in the future. White for real frames, blue or purple for g-frames
I think I'm following but I'm not sure - you're "+17" or whatever, but your opponent is in a guard state rather than recovering?
They are recovering, but it's a special type of recover that lets you cancel that earlier with block only.
they are in recovery state, but are still able to block your attack in that frame advantage
They are recovering, but can still block or crouch. Think of it like a 'attack advantage' as opposed to a 'complete advantage'
after a heat engager you're +17, but during those 17 frames the opponent can block while still not being actionable, meanwhile moves that give follow ups (like paul ss3 which is +12) do not let the opponent block, so you can get a move that is up to 12f start up
didn't expect you to be here
Thanks for making this ! Big Tekken YT creators miss this !
Thank you for this
Hope they add this info in the next patch!!
Now that I think about it ... 🥴😭 why haven't I questioned this for YEARS 🥹🤣
I don't think this existed before Tekken 8. I noticed this only on game launch with heat engagers giving huge plus frames but no guarantee followups.
Yeah i had no clue wtf was going on, I love tekken but it sure does have alot of "this is how things normally work.... Except here, and here, also here...." Moments.
Each move has it's own rules and it's good to treat the whole game like that
They tend to communicate this idea with attacks that leave the attacker plus, but recovering from their own attack animation itself. Reina's example low is +13 but she spins around before you're able to attack again, so that the idea is that she can't get a guaranteed hit after such a commital attack
this is very valuable, keep sharing these tips!
Thanks for the info! I'm a long-time tekken player, and I wasn't aware of this
Something else worth noting that's also deceiving is that it's not like they can guard for the full 13 frames in "13g". It's highly move dependent but take for example Steve's 2,1~PKB
When Steve transitions into PKB he becomes +13g, but without the PKB transition is +6 on hit (without the g). The implication here is that if Steve were to have a 6 frame follow-up for example, then in spite of the move being 13g it would still work because there are 6 frames which they can't guard.
This is really common for stance transition characters where they get more frames by going into a stance after a string
Why this is also relevant is on backturn combos. In backturn the guard frames are different! Hence its theoretically possible to do infinites with law and steve in backturn combos and stance cancels.
Doesn't apply to weird moves like Nina's evil mist however, even backturn they can guard on hit.
In backturn the guard frames aren’t different, just that you literally cannot block while back turned and need time to turn around.
@@Alsry1 that's true, the frame advantage isn't different but as a result because you cannot block it stops being +13g and just +13
I actually haven't played T8 yet so this may or may not apply...
I remember there were some moves in T7 that would have very large plus frames where a follow-up would be guaranteed for the first few frames in the advantage and then the rest of the advantage would be guard frames.
For example, a move that might be +17, where anything i13 or faster would be guaranteed, and anything i14 to i17 could be blocked. These numbers are just an example though, I can't remember any specific examples because it's been a long time since I played.
wow so that explains why parry never worked after heat activation.
assuming all that author said before, "your minus frames only if you are b**ch" (c)
Back in the good old days we all used Geppo for frame data. Move like this was listed as +17g. Now T8 just says +17, making it hard to understand. The ”g” in the end simply means that opponent is in forced guard state instead of recovery state. All they can do is hold db to low block or b to standing block. Nothing else is possible. +17g happens now much more often due to heat engagers and wall crush. Game should have visualized it better in the frame data UI.
I know it certain situation you get a guaranteed grab as well because it combos; for example with Bryan if you do b3 and the opponent mashes follow up with d2 and you should trade but Bryan now has 12+ frames of advantage making his uf 1+2 guaranteed I believe I know for a fact it combos
Excellent video, thanks
Hey bro, I apologize for being on the wrong forum cuz I’m old so You Tube is the only forum I have to tell you, Thank-you! You r same guy with guides on Reddit? If not disregard but I believe u r and I wanted to let u know that u and other content creators have made my Tekken Experience really enjoyable! I use those guides when I’m trying to lab other characters other than Kazuya! And your guides have made it so easy for me! I apologize for not being on twitch or twitter but I wanted to let u know that bruh!
Hey, yeah I'm the one who curates the Tekken Library guides. Glad to hear and thanks for the kind words! :)
Awesome video, great information.
oh no +g....
Mortal Kombat also have this kind of frame data btw
I did notice that, but I did not know that it is called guard frames.
rly good video thanks for the tips
Good stuff man. I was just doing some labbing the other week, I think against Devil Jin. You can step or intterupt a string if the followup hit, for example is something like i26? It's something like that.
So DJ has a string where you can step the second hit - the move comes out at like i26, or maybe it's i28, but you can't step the 3rd followup in the string and it's like i30-i32? I need to go check, but I just recall that standing out to me. I'm assuming some moves have inherrent jailing properties or whatever.
Love your very educational videos I would appreciated of u make video about perfect electric that I'm struggling so much about because some times I can do it but I feeling I miss one frame though its says not i can by kazuya forward 3 it is _13 on block so I should be able to punish it by perfect electric but he can block before it connects can u help pls
This was god to be the first to know about thank you.
are there heat moves that wont let me guard low after being hit? because i felt like i was struck by few for example by steve
No, but maybe your issue is that you tried to block low by pressing down instead of down+back
@@justApplay thank you. is low parry also option?
Very good video, bro.
Vou ficar de olho nessa situação e já deixei o sininho ativado no seu canal.
Does that mean got a safe low attempt after a heat engager in D2,1?
What character's d+2,1 are you referring to?
You mean with Steve? I don't remember how fast that low is, but if it's 17 or faster, then yeah, it should basically be a free attempt
Can yoshi flash it?
As long as you use a move withing the frame advatange, he shouldn't be able to.
Nice tip
Too many things to study, I'm tired of this.
its a fighting game what do you expect and its not that new
@@aryanshyam8933 you're saying it like other FG had 50 characters (less than we can expect with all the DLC for Tekken 8) with 120+ commands each character just like Tekken...
@@ivyy8221 its not that complicated if you know how to learn the game the correct way you just need to know
your
i10 to i15 to 16 punishes
your some key moves
and give a little time to character which you like and learn some combos
learn how to move in 3d space and get the hang of the character
i can guide you if you are interested in learning it would be my pleasure and you might have good time with the game
@@ivyy8221
its not that complicated brother you just need to learn just your character first and learn his key moves and frames
hope you have fun with the game if you would need any help i would be happy to help you so that it can make your experience enjoyable
@@ivyy8221aren't most games overloaded with information? This isn't new to any game at all
Oh what the fuck! That explains so much. Ugh!
Thanks for the explanation, Tekken as a game really has a huge amount of depth. How do you think people who probably do not have all this info at hand (such as those players in Pakistan) are able to dominate the game at the highest level?
Pakistani players definitely have a lot of info. They are a good considerable amount of viewers for my channel, for example.
But going back to when resources were limited (around TTT to T5 era), having a strong offline community helped, 'cause then you have people to talk about stuff. That's the thing that helps players develop the most, imo.
Damn.. You solved my question that I confused for such a really long time-- 🥹👏👏