Or, will they eventually change the name of 5080 to 5070 ti super. I mean, the last time there was xx80 with 50% the specs of xx90 that ended up being xx70 series so it could happen here as well.
That never actually happened with the 4080 - 4090 though, aside from the 4080 Super which was nearly identical to the 4080. I think the large gap is simply because it means they can charge whatever they want for the 5090.
Is it possible that the 5080 still has more raw power than 4090 because of the generation difference? Even though it looks only slightly better than 4080 on paper
17:35 I much prefer the lighting used on characters in the original. The remaster looks like its had ai beauty filter on them so the lighting is weird.
@@RedPillAlways John is the person who actually fanboys out the most, except it's for the past. Frequent moaning that gaming isn't exactly the same as the past. Hear enough of that on social media.
If only... We had a toggle to disable hero lighting crap. Honestly it does more damage than good. Yes often times looks outstanding but the rest of the time which is more often then not it just looks distracting and bad.
PS5 Pro, if you want the best looking games, "you are gonna pay a bit extra for it"... Here in Norway I can buy a PS5 Slim Digital (new in store) for 4790,- NOK ($450 USD) and a PS5 Pro (also Digital, since it doesnt come with a disc drive) costs 10149,- ($957 USD) in store (cheapest price available). That makes the PS5 Pro over TWICE as expensive as a regular PS5. There is absolutely no way that is justified. I bought the PS4 Pro and would never consider the PS5 Pro because the price difference is ridiculous this time. The PS4 Pro was like $120 more over the regular PS4 here, that made the decision easy.
You can buy RTX4060 or 4090. You can buy 40" LCD TV or 65" OLED TV. You can buy Dacia or Lexus. It's all completely optional and existence of one doesn't affect another in any way. Stop acting like a stereotypical whiny entitled gamer.
@@Radek494 Yep. 40fps modes are legit, in fact necessary for 120 hz panels. I might need to try 30fps with more of LG's in-built frame-generation techniques, but from what I've tried it's unplayable whereas 40fps is worlds better for obvious reasons. Please devs, make this the standard going forward. 40 unlocked would also play well with VRR if the screen's minimum applicable FR allowed.
They won't. They're ONLY porting easy (lazy) ports using the x86 code that allows for PS4 BC. This ports easily to the newer consoles x86 architecture. All they have to do is prioritize framerate, resolution and art. KZ2 and KZ3 would require an in depth rewrite of the entire game.
@@robbieburns3564PS3 was better than PS4 in some aspects and had a better processor. Also Killzone Shadow Fall felt like shit and had worse AI compared to KZ 2/3. Definitely I don't like the way Sony went with the PS4. nearly all games prioritize gameplay over AI and physics simulation.
I don't know why Sony doesn't dive into their back catalog more. There's plenty of PS1-PS3 games that could use full remakes and would easily sell for $40-$50, and some PS3 games look good enough to hold up well as just remasters. I suppose the manpower required to remaster a recent game is substantially less than remastering/remaking a much older game, and the timeline is probably much shorter. That being said, Sony can't really charge more than $10 for that effort.
Aloy looks better, Rost looks worse since he looked a lot wiser in the original with his wrinkles, Aloy looks better in remaster since she looks younger .
Not even a 4090/5090 is enough for A LOT of professional AI work, which is why professional versions of the 4090 (for Servers) exist that have 48GB of VRAM and do cost a couple thousand $ per card. A lot of AI companies stack them in Servers like 5 or 10 of them at once to use the VRAM.
@@icy1007But will it be worthy of the price tag? Will it be as much of an uplift and upgrade over the 4080 to justify what will probably be more expensive than the 4080S launch price?
Youre completely right. The baked lighting had attention to detail. You can see in this footage that all sorts of features were removed from the new version. Leaves, birds, snow. It's a halfassed remaster where they ported the whole game into a new engine without regard to the original's style.
Did see a suggestion, that the Rost they showed has been made to look younger in the opening sequences we were shown, given that it is about 18 years earlier than the events in the main game.
Buying a PS5 pro vs a PS5 base is just the same as a BMW 340i vs a BMW M3. Or an iPhone 16 over a iPhone 16 Pro. Just because something is out and faster doesn’t mean you are obligated to buy it. Just means folks with deeper pockets have more bleeding edge options available.
I don't think you get it, the problem isn't that an M2 exist, the problem is that the M2 which should be 66k is creeping into the 90K Corvette stingray price.
@@ForTheViolenceI don’t think you get it either. You’re not getting the same device at a price increase. You’re paying for more graphical and performance enhancements, plus double the internal storage. Same would happen on car, you pay for more if you want more features.
@@cam-andgetit7314Yeah it went over your head. The point is, The $700 price tag is uncanny for a console and it’s just going to push more people towards PC. Especially since parts are now readily available.
Ps4 Pro: 3 years later, twice the power, twice the storage, same price Ps5 Pro: 4 years later, twice the power, twice the storage, no disk drive, more expensive
I really hate that lighting they used on characters from the, it kinda destroys the look. Feels like characters have been recorded on a greens reen with totally mismatching lighting. It's distracting and really downgrades the look I feel
I would LOVE!!! to see a MotorStorm remastered trilogy for PS4/PS5 on 60fps WITH multiplayer! MotorStorm: Pacific Rift was fucking LIT!!! There is SOOOOOO many PS3 titles that are STUCK there and could be brought to PS4 with 60fps and people would happily buy them again! Also Bloodborne 60fps NEEDS TO HAPPEN!! I do NOT agree with the PC releases being closer to PS4/5 releases. People will not double dip that way. Now, with the year(s) gap, people that REALLY WANT to play it, will buy it on release for PS4/5 and buy it again on PC if they have one of those
Because of the architecture of the PS3 Sony won't touch those game, they would have to rebuild the whole game from scratch. I missed those games too so I got a second hand mint condition ps3 a couple of weeks ago , just to be able to play the gen again that had everything that ain't in the games today , just pure fun without the political bs agendas etc etc . The PS3 upscaled to 4k if you have a good TV or AV that handles that really looks good 🤘🏻far better then I would imagine, so if you miss those games I really recommend to pick up a PS3 and hook it up side by side with the current one looks good 😎🤘🏻 . Since Sony won't give backwards compatibility to PS3 those game and console gonna sky rocket time by time so its a good time to start collecting.
@@olzzon Yes they obviously have to rebuild them from scratch, but they were popular franchises; the game design is already there and proven, the maps are designed, the scope is clear - this is still a lot less effort that any new franchise. I do not understand why Sony won't capitalize on those old franchises that people are clearly wanting to play again.
Evolution doesn't exist anymore which is also a factor I imagine. I'd love Driveclub and Motorstorm to get remade for PS5 but when the people that made it are scattered around other studios I imagine the appetite to do anything with them soon vanishes. Bloodborne also has complications because it's a Fromsoft game but a Sony IP, would probably be a lot of things to line up to get that off the ground.
There was a now canceled, planned show for HZD, so they were basically doing the same thing they did with TLOU, not to mention they made a TON of money off the remake. I guess they were too far gone with all they did with the remaster of HZD so they kept going.
It’s not baffling at all.. you do understand that Horizon outsold Bloodborne by like 17 million copies right? They are not going to invest in a niche game that flopped on release. By flop, I mean sales flop. The game itself was excellent.
Those remasters ain't for u. All of u complsing about these remasters are clearly slow and don't know that 30 percent of all ps5 owners NEVER owned a ps4. That means over 18 million people
There’s still some truth to it. Not all problems can be patched, and not all studios can afford to maintain the game post-launch, especially if the issues run deep. But you could also argue that studios can’t always afford to delay, so a release to recoup the costs to afford patching may be the only option.
@@mechanicalmonk2020this is why I don't believe the circlejerk about games coming out broken unlike in the good old days. No, complex, ambitious games always came out busted, it's just that only during the last generation studios started having a chance to fix that. You know what we actually had back in the day? Yould have modders "fix" the game the best they could, if you were lucky
I rewatched the Ghost of Yōtei trailer again at 1/4 speed and I think the physics are quite stepped up here compared to Tsushima the trees miles in the distance seem to react with wind which is a much farther distance than anything seen in GOT unless that not gameplay footage?
While you're correct, none of this is related to physics being simulated. Because there's practically none of that in GoT and GoY. These are run-of-the-mill foliage animation systems. Genuine physics simulation (like in Astro Bot and Black Myth Wukong) is very rare in games.
@@sellingacoerwa8318 thats like complaining about another game with a soldier guy, another game with a knight guy, etc 🤦♂️ you’re entitled to your opinion and what interests you, but lets put two minutes of thought to what we are about to say to have more interesting conversations
@@sellingacoerwa8318 You're in luck then because it's not a guy, but a woman this time and im not ever sure she's a samurai. At least they did not make her black...
Could be even worse than the ps4/ps5 cross gen period. Think about economy and increasing prices for console hardware. Even less exclusives and exciting new titles…
I'm still trying to figure out what PS5 Pro is for. PS6, we definitely don't need that. Sony needs to figure out a new strategy, this increasingly expensive new console that doesn't have games justifying the expense of the new console isn't going to continue working. I still don't know why I bought a PS5, I still don't know why I'd buy a PS5 Pro, and I'm definitely not interested in a PS6.
@@MisterReen Yes, the per transistor cost is not falling anymore. Game devs will be happy to target a portable platform (Switch 2/steam deck 2) and the PS5 for as long as they can. I can see PS6 target 4K and PS5 1080p right up to the launch of PS7.
@@mjc0961last part sounds like a you problem and same could be said to many others. There are plenty of ps5 games you can play but if you’re only interested in playing COD and madden then you wasted your money lol
@@mjc0961 it's really not hard to figure out what PS5 Pro is for, it's to avoid situations like FFVII Rebirth where your options are either a blurry mess or 30fps. The perfect example of why the console is needed.
My conclusion is that Sony is trying to do a delicate balancing act in not diminishing the PS5 while propping the PS5 pro and the real showcase will be when the PS6 and PS5 Pro go head to head.
It's absolutely correct that if the Series S had the same RAM, it would be able to do everything the X does, at the same level of performance, just at a lower resolution. The memory is the only real bottleneck once you accomodate for a lower resolution.
I had to move countries and had to make a new account on PSN because Sony doesn't allow for changing countries, a very very basic feature that should be present in 2024. That means I lost access to a decade of PS+ titles, as my PS+ is on the new acc on my current country, not the old one. If that wasn't infuriating enough, now I can't upgrade my copy of Horizon because it was bought on the old acc and I can't make international purchases.. and then they raise the price of HZD PS4, which means that buying an upgraded version of a game I own would cost 5x more.
It is insane how Sony's stupid and ancient acc system screws over their costumers, and yet they insist on all this bullshit (raising prices of older games, like HZD and TLOUP2 over here, making PSN acc mandatory even in countries they don't support) that creates friction with costumers interested in being part of the ecosystem like me .
PSN is not even supported in my country (Serbia) so I have using USA account from day one. The secret is PSN vouchers - buy them online for your target country (many sellers don't care if your Credit Card doesn't match that country).
Forbidden West disproves that, and the remaster looks the same. Still one of the most gorgeous games I've played. I get the hero lighting is not for everyone though
What are you blubbering about? It doesn't even make any sense what you just said. Do you realize that same artists worked on Horizon Forbidden West? So all Nixxes did was backport all technology advancements from second game into the first game and aligned visual styles to be more coherent between the two games.
I'm actually glad that GoY isn't overhauling graphics that much, I love the look of the original game and it just means more time spent on actual gameplay, new mechanics, enemies etc
I really want the game design to evolve over console generations, photorealism isn't always as interesting as simply good design, rather have interesting gameplay with well made and optimized visuals
You guys should discuss whether people should upgrade their TV or PS5 to the Pro. For people who don't currently have TVs with 120 hz or VRR, it's hard to decide if the TV should be upgraded before jumping from the base PS5 to the Pro.
They should be remastering Infamous, Resistance, Motorstorm, Killzone, God of War games collection. Horizon Zero Dawn Remaster didn't need done right now. They could have waited a couple of generations.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the PSN login, but I do agree that it should be optional for single player games. If you login, you get trophies, but otherwise not a big deal. Sony can still track who is playing the game without that.
The people who decide how the money is spent are terrified to take a chance on new IP with how much AAA games cost to make and how long they take to make nowadays, not to mention all the big budget AAA games bombing lately. Remastering an already popular game doesn't require a lot of manpower or time, and even if it's only sold as a $10 upgrade it's a much better bet to make a profit. At the end of the day video games are made primarily to make money, as is most entertainment media.
The comparison between the PS5 Pro and buying a better GPU for a PC is very flawed. On PC, most people have way more CPU power than they need, so buying a new GPU will indeed give them a boost to performance or resolution. On console, games are tailored around the hardware. If a game is already dipping in performance, then we know for a fact it's a CPU bottleneck, because otherwise the developer could just drop resolution (or dynamic res would do it for them). When you can't drop resolution to improve performance, it says that it's the CPU bottlenecking you from doing so. This is not very common on PC, but it is true for nearly every game on console. When there isn't a CPU bottleneck, the game will already be running at a good performance. So all you're left with is resolution. A 45% boost in GPU would theoretically allow for a 20% increase in resolution (1.2x width * 1.2x height = 1.44x). Which is almost nothing. Once you add in PSSR, it seems developers can't even increase the base resolution. So the main difference you're going to see for 99% of the games out there is the same exact resolution, with the same exact performance, just with PSSR instead of whatever upscaling they were doing before. If they were already using a temporal upscaler, that means you get a more stable image, but still roughly the same level of detail as before. AI doesn't add detail. It's just better at combining it together than FSR/TSR. I'm sorry, but there is NO world where that is anywhere near the same thing as upgrading a GPU on PC to the same level. Add on top of that where Sony promised the PS4 Pro would be a one time thing, only because there was a specific need for 4K capable consoles at the time, plus the high price, and it's just a bad product, and we should not be supporting it. I am a Sony fanboy, but I want the PS5 Pro to fail so that Sony doesn't try to keep doing this in the future. It's a bad product and it's bad for the gaming industry. A console should be something you buy that will be the sole focus for developers over the next 7 or so years. The more we fragment developers and consumers, the worse optimization we get in games, and the less impactful each generational leap becomes. This is bad and it needs to stop. While I don't care about Xbox, I am very happy that they decided NOT to make a mid generation refresh this time around. They made the right call this time.
@@randyrrs7028 as I said, comparing it to a PC is flawed, and just not helpful of a comparison. Once again, consoles are far more likely to encounter CPU bottlenecks when you upgrade the GPU. Secondly, consoles make use of hardware in a different way than on PC, so a PC with the same specs as a console will actually perform worse.
@@jaspelino1963 Yeah, creators used to be but maybe six or twelve months ago Google took over all ad options including length and frequency, even when creators told them they didn’t want so many ads. Greed!
@@mmo5366 oof that’s rough. I’ve been closing apps like UA-cam and Twitch immediately after opening them lately because I just can’t be bothered to sit through all that crap. I wonder if pushing so many ads will hurt their bottom line at some point.
@@StarmenRockWrong. They've been terrible since walking back 3060 12gb to 8gb. xx60 series was always at previous xx80 series performance. It's good till 3060 12gb
@@StarmenRockBecause 60 cards are always the best option for smaller budgets and the most common cards in prebuilts. They are the most used cards for a reason
Prediction: Sucker punch, Rockstar, Naughty dog and the likes will all aim release their next games closer to the end of the current cycle to make sure their games stay relevant in the PS5/PS6 cross over.
@@BrunoMael it’s heading towards the end. If it’s end of 2025 then in theory it’s 3 years before ps5 in time for remaster. But could be delays as we don’t have dates. Just theories though.
@@WaffleCake saw a random vid on the history of Rockstar. The fact that they released GTA3 and Vice city 1 year appart is quite extraordinary and I remember that being totally normal.
@@EpochFitness I always think of the leap from Spyro/Bandicoot to Ratchet & Clank/Jak & Daxter. Geometry up by 4X, Resolution up by [4X] for 16X detail-PLUS 2X to render distance. 32X? within Year-1? Pretty much. This opened doors to GAMEPLAY which developers already knew were comming for years. Today, the only door is full Path-Tracing-a door which homogenizes artistic targets. The industry is changing.
Alex, I can tell you that the entire reason I purchased a 4k TV was due to the PS4 Pro, and I am SO GLAD I did. Next will be a 4k/120 OLED.... When this one dies.
The problem I have with the "phone" model of consoles is just that it seems so wasteful to buy a new console when only one component is improved. I feel similarly about the Ps5 Pro, people tend to say it is designed primarily for current ps5 owners and I'd agree, but that's essentially like me buying a whole new PC with exactly the same parts as my current PC apart from the GPU, which just seems wasteful and overly redundant
Yeah. The console manufacturers and game developers also don't gain anything from doing a lot of iterative console versions. It makes sense to do a new console generation once there is a substantial improvement at a reasonable price, otherwise it's quite pointless.
Also worth noting that the only reason that model caught on with phones is because carriers offer monthly surcharge + trade-in programs. Nobody just walks into a store and buys a phone for $1,000 every year.
agreed. Lot of these numbers are slyly using DLSS / FSR for the gains. Gone are the days where you get pretty good gains going from one tier to the next based on rastorization alone..
The perspective / foreshortening has changed quite a lot everywhere. It doesn't even look like just a different default lens. Old HZD had an odd feature that felt like a fisheye lens effect, it seem to have distorted distances. This was fixed in FW. Apparently here as well.
"If not on PS5 at least on PS5 Pro" when talking about a 60fps mode in a Sony exclusive title should never be said. There is no way they won't give us a 60fps mode on a standard PS5. That would be the worst move to make after how well the first one performed. We need to have 60 in a fast samurai game nowadays imo. Very few games can do 30 in a smooth way for me.
You guys need to look at the first Ghost game again, Yotei has significant boost in texture resolution and world object density. As well as he world ambient lighting and effects are far better. The cloud and fog stuff going on here is a huge step up and looks incredible.
Latest TGS stream about Wilds was running near the 60s on a base PS5! Also lmao, called it that the Pro wasnt gonna have a boost for DD2, hilarious that it runs better on the standard
@@concinnus It wasnt framegen, you would be able to tell. Also why would they use it when even DD2 demonstrated it can run well? also, from reddit: " despite what everyone here is claiming, it is almost certainly NOT using frame generation to hit 60 fps. Aside from the lack of major disocclusion artifacting, you can see UI elements on screen tracking NPCs smoothly at a 60fps update. If the game was running at 30 or 40 fps and using frame gen to hit it's 60fps target, the UI would appear to stutter because it can only update on the actual game logic loop. Additionally, no - they are almost certainly not doing "frame generation" on the UI itself, because UI elements don't have motion vectors and text would be completely unreadable."
@@Crabo99 DD2 runs well? omegalul -- even after the last patch it's 30-45fps on console. That's one reason 60fps on MHW is probably FG. The other reason is the min/rec specs say 30fps on a 3600 or 60fps with FG on a 3600X. And the 3600 is a console-equivalent CPU. Also, the streams I saw were compressed into soup, there's no way you can tell if they're using FG. You need to lay off the copium, my dude.
@@concinnusLatest DD2 patch runs near the 60s on a standard ps5, even better than the Pro which stutters more for some reason. Its in this video. This is not framegen, if DD2 didnt use it, why would Wilds? These games are usually worse optimized on PC than console, I hope for PC players it actually runs better than the specs are lookin. It wouldnt be the first time for a capcom game to be better optimized on console than pc at launch. These arent rock solid 60 mind you, but it is definetely not framegen
i think a good example of a possible translation issue is this recent capcom trend of "unlocked framerate". It's like they saw everyone complaining about 30FPS and said "alright no frame limit" instead of the desired "please try to make it stable 60"
They outsourced this remaster for cheap. It's extremely lazy and all artwork will be of much lower quality than original. Why they want to damage their reputation like that is beyond me. Also I'm confused why this obvious fact is not voiced here.
I was just going to say “do they have the screen flipped to where the remaster is actually the original?? Like digital foundry had axis key labeled it wrong?? But nope I just went back and watched it and yes in the scenes shown the remaster actively looks worse, it’s really weird. Just more “stuff” like foliage but worse textures etc. especially the characters and the detail on their clothing looks alot worse. Just pause and look at each scene from 14:57 to 15:15
The subsurface scattering looks better now, but it seems the new lighting isn't significantly better overall. And the increased hero lighting is actually worse.
You can dislike Sony's Remastered strategy but as for Why it's quite clear: Use cross promotion releases such as TLOU HBO show, Family friendly Lego Horizon on Switch, Days Gone future movie to make boost the game sales without having their presentation hindred by old tech and make franchises an uniformly solid technical experience for new players. Also considering new backward compatibility Standard, remastering a 2017 game might seem too soon now, but when 3rd Horizon game comes out for PS6, new players can experience the whole trilogy in a much better way without a decade plus game holding the experience back.
Painters used to sometimes advertise their works as ink drawings or in 'dead-coloured' levels of finish to save themselves from investing too many resources in a single work without a guarantee of it selling. Big studios, like Ubisoft, need to capitalise on the growing acceptance of early access, perhaps employing dozens of small teams of developers as 'feelers', to develop many different games until these teams produce something that attracts an audience; the studio can then back that popular early access idea with the full brunt of its AAA resources. This would be a win-win for everyone.
Another issue with not releasing games on Steam for a limited time is that by the time your Star Wars game does come out on Steam, word of mouth has already destroyed the game's reputation, so less people are like to engage with it. That's how things panned out for me with Skull & Bones... if it'd been released on Steam day one I probably would have bought it, but I know better now. So by doing this Ubisoft are actually losing potential buyers many of whom would not go to the effort of chasing a refund if a game is bad.
I hate that the gap between the high end and halo card is widening. The top cards were always stupidly expensive for a rather modest performance boost. Now you really feel like you are missing out if you go for an 80 class card which sounds even worse when you consider that its now also 1000$+. And AMD seems to have given up which lets Nvidia do whatever they want.
The part which Alex claims Avatar isn't using Ubisoft formula was unbelievable to heart considering how the entire game is Farcry base capturing even most of main quest missions! 🤦
Lego Horizon is precisely WHY they remastered Zero Dawn, it's a day 1 Switch game designed to get people from that audience into PlayStation, much like the TV shows are intended to grow PlayStation's audience. Nintendo has a huge untapped market of potential PlayStation customers, both Lego Horizon and the remaster were funded in an attempt to expand PlayStation's coalition while expanding the IP itself.
@@nattila7713 No, Lego Horizon on the Switch is designed to interest Nintendo players into the IP and migrate/graduate over to PlayStation. A new PS5 copy of Zero Dawn is done to capitalize off that, like Last of Us, both franchises have PS5 copies of both entries on store shelves. They do the same with PC players, putting part 1 of a game before part 2 releases as a PS5 exclusive, forcing those invested in the stories/IPs to get a console. All their decisions are part of a strategy to expand their audience.
Killzone 2 & 3 should really get the remaster treatment. PlayStation hasn't had a first party FPS since Shadowfall... Which came out nearly 11 years ago.
When AMD say they are not going to compete at the high end, they probably mean that they are only going to make up to a 5060 competitor, but I really hope they just mean they are not going to bother with trying to make something like a 5090.
On The AC Shadows delay 3 months isn't long to make changes but Ubisoft has 16 studios working on Shadows and a low estimate of 10000 developers with Millions of man hours per month fair to say they can do quite a lot with that type of Human Resource in 3 months
My 1080p LG TV from 2014 is still more than fine! Not throwing it away because it aint broke. Let me just choose a 1080p mode and use all the other bandwidth that comes free by choosing so allocate to better/more frames, less pop-in, more fidelity and more physx
I'm personally so over the ray-tracing craze and Alex's constant efforts to over-blow its advantages while almost never mentioning its massive drawbacks (image stability, extreme performance impact, etc.). Yes, there's a few games with major visual improvements over rasterization, but they are very few and I'd argue that those games that have RT no matter what ie. Star Wars Outlaws & Avatar: FoP...both look best with the lowest possible setting for RT due to the extreme image stability problem with combining DLSS and RT Lighting, better to have great graphics and good image stability...not MAX RTX!! and awful image stability. Ghost of Yotei looks absolutely amazing and clearly isn't using major RT features, that's a good thing. The lighting looks designed, not just ray-lit. I don't want realism over a great looking cinematic image and clarity. Those candles for example are a good example of video game graphics being BETTER THAN REAL LIFE. Yes, the candle would be washed out in real life...but in virtual, you can get both the outside light AND the candle light for a more cinematic and complete image. I know that people who want nothing but RT everywhere will disagree, but baked lighting and low-RT features look better when done well. Space Marine 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon games, Throne and Liberty (new MMO, kinda pay to win but awesome graphics), etc. show that baked is still the absolute king of good visuals AND great performance. I won't change my mind until the performance cost is solved or mitigated AND all image stability issues are removed from RT lighting, that disgusting swimming look to RT in most games is just awful and it's even worse when you have Ray Reconstruction!
I would argue that both Horizon games are actually an example where baked lighting often doesn't look good. It's an open world with dynamic time of day, so it's not surprising it often doesn't look right, e.g. at dawn. It looks videogamey. Avatar and SW Outlaws just look correct in terms of lighting. Though baked lighting often does make sense in other types of games (not open world).
I like how Alex broke down all these factors. I have ambivalent feelings as well. However as an enthusiast buyer of 4090 I look at that like a NV link or SLI budget system and a 4080 or 5080 being like a single high end chip solution. People kinda forget how the high end enthusiast system used to be. One question though that I have ALWAYS wondered was why the push to end SLI and NVLink because it DID work pretty well for the most part until they forced out profile support at the driver level and made Nvinspector more difficult to use. It's as if MAYBE they knew the deep learning Ai research was going to go solely to the multi gpu data centers and had to remove any enthusiast access? To shift to more reliance on less brute power and more inferential capabilities? But we are really at CPU limitations more than ever. PS6 probably won't be more powerful than a 4090 which will show a LOT of ROI for people who don't upgrade
Oof, the amount of ads in these videos is really becoming unbearable. I appreciate the fact that you guys need to make a living, but lately I find myself simply closing UA-cam instead of finishing the video more often than not.
Wow, such first world problems, unreal. Is it hard to sit for a few seconds and hit the skip button? There is a thing called ad block, too. You're getting this for free, yet you still complain.
Alex has a great point, Ghost of Tsushima and Ghost of Yotei are 5 years apart and a console generation apart but it doesn't have a significant leap graphicswise from the trailer shown. Ollie was right to point that it looks really good but no significant improvements nonetheless.
Only way a 5080 is faster than a 4090 by 10% is in path tracing titles. Rasterization gains going 4080 to 5080 are going to be a joke. Less than 15% most likely. It's just a 10% clock bump with no big changes to the SM units.
Don't forget that architecture changes are difficult to account for outside of benchmarks. Even if all stats, like operating frequency, are the same, you can't directly compare. So, I'd hold off on pessimism for now.
There is no way a 5080 is faster than 4090. Every single spec is worse than 4090. No amount of architectural changes can overcome these deficiencies. 8GB less VRAM too. People hoping for a $999 4090 killer are deluding themselves and will be severely disappointed. It looks even worse when we looks at the 400W TDP. 4090 is 450W.
This just isn't true. A 7800X3D running at 1.6GHz would cream a 2700X It's possible they have something huge here, but I understand the skepticism@@Raivo_K
Sony retroactively raised the price of Zero Dawn to $39.99 so if you upgrade you spend $49.99 - which is the price of the Remaster. Sony hasn’t lowered the price of Zero Dawn on Steam to $39.99 (it’s still $49.99). So if you buy it now and then pay $10 to upgrade you will spend $59.99…which is $10 more than the Remaster. Moral of the story, if you can’t get it for dirty cheap from a code seller site, wait until the Remaster releases.
I don’t have problem one with the visuals on the existing HZD. If Guerrilla wants to fix something, they can work on the NUMEROUS instances where characters decide to deliver voice over exposition during an especially noisy combat moment.
It had a bunch of visual artifacts and shortcomings, though, so it must be a pretty good indication of the game's tech. It would be weird of them to purposefully put those kinds of mistakes into a pre-rendered cinematic trailer lol
With the gap between high end and lower priced GPU’s increasing, I think DF’s optimized settings and technical analysis becomes more important. It’s remarkable how many games have come out that can only really stretch their legs on a 4080/4090, or even just a 4090.
The reason for the wide gap in specs between the 5090 and 5080 is simple. They can more easily justify a 5080ti , 5080 super, 5080ti super. FML
Or, will they eventually change the name of 5080 to 5070 ti super. I mean, the last time there was xx80 with 50% the specs of xx90 that ended up being xx70 series so it could happen here as well.
That never actually happened with the 4080 - 4090 though, aside from the 4080 Super which was nearly identical to the 4080. I think the large gap is simply because it means they can charge whatever they want for the 5090.
Ahh yes 5090 - The reason we humans have a spare kidney.
Insane for a PC gamer switch to a console but here I am.
Is it possible that the 5080 still has more raw power than 4090 because of the generation difference? Even though it looks only slightly better than 4080 on paper
17:35 I much prefer the lighting used on characters in the original. The remaster looks like its had ai beauty filter on them so the lighting is weird.
@@Bassquake76 Agree. Everything else looks great and actually enhanced, but the characters and cutscene lighting are a mixed bag.
Yeah why does everyone look like they just got powdered before going into a live tv interview
I wanted to say the same. It just looks off and washed out
It's the dumb hero lighting they've been using since the sequel. The characters look like they're photoshopped into the environments
15:49 I suppose it's because of an "improved" skin subsurface scattering, but it looks much worse in fact, losing most of his expression lines.
Oliver is now truly the Professional.
At what??
My favorite analyst on the show, used to be John.😂😂
@@tgreg9542 mine still is.
John doesn't fanboy out
@@RedPillAlways John is the person who actually fanboys out the most, except it's for the past. Frequent moaning that gaming isn't exactly the same as the past. Hear enough of that on social media.
@@RedPillAlways he does he has his favorite studios and dev teams. Everyone does, what’s wrong with that
hero lighting makes remaster characters look way worse. shadow details matter
True
Is that why ALOY looks like she went to dermatologist and had a facial... 😅😅😅
If only... We had a toggle to disable hero lighting crap. Honestly it does more damage than good. Yes often times looks outstanding but the rest of the time which is more often then not it just looks distracting and bad.
Remaster looks better in every single aspect. You can always play original if you don't like much better graphics.
@@Glotttis No, I want the increased foliage and bending but the original skin.
PS5 Pro, if you want the best looking games, "you are gonna pay a bit extra for it"... Here in Norway I can buy a PS5 Slim Digital (new in store) for 4790,- NOK ($450 USD) and a PS5 Pro (also Digital, since it doesnt come with a disc drive) costs 10149,- ($957 USD) in store (cheapest price available). That makes the PS5 Pro over TWICE as expensive as a regular PS5. There is absolutely no way that is justified. I bought the PS4 Pro and would never consider the PS5 Pro because the price difference is ridiculous this time. The PS4 Pro was like $120 more over the regular PS4 here, that made the decision easy.
I agree with you, buy the PS5 Slim and be happy. I love the 4K 40 fps modes in games that support it on my new TCL TV.
PS5 Pro seems to be hit with even rougher regional price increase than PS5/PS5 Slim, it's not worth it at all
You can buy RTX4060 or 4090. You can buy 40" LCD TV or 65" OLED TV. You can buy Dacia or Lexus. It's all completely optional and existence of one doesn't affect another in any way. Stop acting like a stereotypical whiny entitled gamer.
@@Radek494 Yep. 40fps modes are legit, in fact necessary for 120 hz panels. I might need to try 30fps with more of LG's in-built frame-generation techniques, but from what I've tried it's unplayable whereas 40fps is worlds better for obvious reasons. Please devs, make this the standard going forward. 40 unlocked would also play well with VRR if the screen's minimum applicable FR allowed.
Bad luck if you don't have enough pocket
hope they remaster killzone 2 and killzone 3
such solid shooter
i would play the heck out of a killzone remaster
They won't. They're ONLY porting easy (lazy) ports using the x86 code that allows for PS4 BC. This ports easily to the newer consoles x86 architecture. All they have to do is prioritize framerate, resolution and art. KZ2 and KZ3 would require an in depth rewrite of the entire game.
Killzone original trilogy vol1 remastered and... Killzone vol2 with Killzone shadow fall + Killzone Mercenary (psvita) + Killzone liberation (psp) 😎
Yes please 🙏
@@robbieburns3564PS3 was better than PS4 in some aspects and had a better processor. Also Killzone Shadow Fall felt like shit and had worse AI compared to KZ 2/3. Definitely I don't like the way Sony went with the PS4. nearly all games prioritize gameplay over AI and physics simulation.
I wonder if the person complaining about the 'PSSR' artifacting in Ghosts of Yotei was talking about the film grain effects.
If it has film grain effect, then that would really destroy the quality when encoding to video
@@davidriosg the trailer has film grain in the black and white section.
then they need to let us disable it. They shouldn't have features that degrade visual quality on by default
@@NeoTechni most games do have an option to turn off film grain.
Idk how they can complain about pssr if the footage was recorded on a base ps5 that doesn’t supports pssr 😂
We need PS3 games for PS5, Killzone, resistance, infamous, ratchet & clank.
Yes and I'm still hoping it does happen.
I don't know why Sony doesn't dive into their back catalog more. There's plenty of PS1-PS3 games that could use full remakes and would easily sell for $40-$50, and some PS3 games look good enough to hold up well as just remasters.
I suppose the manpower required to remaster a recent game is substantially less than remastering/remaking a much older game, and the timeline is probably much shorter. That being said, Sony can't really charge more than $10 for that effort.
MGS4!
Oh my god - SOOOO many adverts!!! What’s happened to UA-cam FFS!
Ublock Origin.
Once you go ad free, there's no going back.
@@travisspazz1624yup. It hurts so much when people show me videos who don’t have premium.
CEO needs that bonus
ublock origin, get it!
Why do the HZD Remaster characters look so much worse to me?
to a lot of us, and the DOF is too high, the only better thing I noticed is denser vegetation, everything else look worse
Because of character lighting, it looks unnatural and fake.
hero lighting and lack of contrast
It looks better in most scenes
Aloy looks better, Rost looks worse since he looked a lot wiser in the original with his wrinkles, Aloy looks better in remaster since she looks younger .
16GB on the 5080 is anemic. They really don't want people using those for AI workloads and are pushing the 5090 as a 'consumer' AI capable card.
Not even a 4090/5090 is enough for A LOT of professional AI work, which is why professional versions of the 4090 (for Servers) exist that have 48GB of VRAM and do cost a couple thousand $ per card. A lot of AI companies stack them in Servers like 5 or 10 of them at once to use the VRAM.
Heck even the new iphones got ram upgrades to make room for the AI feature.
5080 should have 20GB minimum.
16GB on the 5080 is fine.
@@icy1007But will it be worthy of the price tag? Will it be as much of an uplift and upgrade over the 4080 to justify what will probably be more expensive than the 4080S launch price?
I'm happy with Yoteis visual targets. Says to me well get a really clean image at likely 60fps.
DF would prefer moar ray tracing at 720p60.
@@THU31why are you even here? I don’t get why people who don’t care about graphical advancement are here
Right ,people want crazy graphics, but when it plays like hellblade 2, what's the point🤷🏽♂️
Frame rate>>gwaphics@@lawyerlawyer1215
Somehow it doesnt look a generation better than GoT. Still looks like a cross gen title. Kinda disappointed
is it just me or does the Horizion remaster look worse? The baked lighting looks great and the face features are more defined to me.
its just you
Erm, looking at the likes, it clearly isnt only him.
Youre completely right. The baked lighting had attention to detail. You can see in this footage that all sorts of features were removed from the new version. Leaves, birds, snow. It's a halfassed remaster where they ported the whole game into a new engine without regard to the original's style.
"I actually prefer shittier, less accurate graphics because it allow my imagination to fill in the rest" - guys in this thread.
Bold to write that given the awful hero lighting being used in the remaster
Ghost of Yōtei seems like such a fantastic game to test PSSR image clarity, so much movement with the leaves, branches, transparent wind effects etc
Looks absolutely fantastic. Complete disbelief how negative DF was about the game.
A particularly animated thumbnail this week
Rost looks better in the Original. Why did they make his head smaller? and his hair darker? His beard looked great in the first.
Outsourcing.
because literally everyone has lost their mind mate
If you think he looks better than I guess you shouldn't buy a PS5 Pro.
Did see a suggestion, that the Rost they showed has been made to look younger in the opening sequences we were shown, given that it is about 18 years earlier than the events in the main game.
The hair effects look like a downgrade, aside from baby Aloy’s.
Buying a PS5 pro vs a PS5 base is just the same as a BMW 340i vs a BMW M3. Or an iPhone 16 over a iPhone 16 Pro. Just because something is out and faster doesn’t mean you are obligated to buy it. Just means folks with deeper pockets have more bleeding edge options available.
I don't think you get it, the problem isn't that an M2 exist, the problem is that the M2 which should be 66k is creeping into the 90K Corvette stingray price.
@@ForTheViolenceI don’t think you get it either. You’re not getting the same device at a price increase. You’re paying for more graphical and performance enhancements, plus double the internal storage. Same would happen on car, you pay for more if you want more features.
@@cam-andgetit7314Yeah it went over your head. The point is, The $700 price tag is uncanny for a console and it’s just going to push more people towards PC. Especially since parts are now readily available.
@@ForTheViolencefacts
Ps4 Pro: 3 years later, twice the power, twice the storage, same price
Ps5 Pro: 4 years later, twice the power, twice the storage, no disk drive, more expensive
I really hate that lighting they used on characters from the, it kinda destroys the look. Feels like characters have been recorded on a greens reen with totally mismatching lighting. It's distracting and really downgrades the look I feel
Ashouod be titled, Horizon Forbidden Rim light
Yeah it looks like garbage =/
I would LOVE!!! to see a MotorStorm remastered trilogy for PS4/PS5 on 60fps WITH multiplayer! MotorStorm: Pacific Rift was fucking LIT!!!
There is SOOOOOO many PS3 titles that are STUCK there and could be brought to PS4 with 60fps and people would happily buy them again!
Also Bloodborne 60fps NEEDS TO HAPPEN!!
I do NOT agree with the PC releases being closer to PS4/5 releases. People will not double dip that way. Now, with the year(s) gap, people that REALLY WANT to play it, will buy it on release for PS4/5 and buy it again on PC if they have one of those
Because of the architecture of the PS3 Sony won't touch those game, they would have to rebuild the whole game from scratch.
I missed those games too so I got a second hand mint condition ps3 a couple of weeks ago , just to be able to play the gen again that had everything that ain't in the games today , just pure fun without the political bs agendas etc etc . The PS3 upscaled to 4k if you have a good TV or AV that handles that really looks good 🤘🏻far better then I would imagine, so if you miss those games I really recommend to pick up a PS3 and hook it up side by side with the current one looks good 😎🤘🏻 .
Since Sony won't give backwards compatibility to PS3 those game and console gonna sky rocket time by time so its a good time to start collecting.
So how much is my Pacific Rift( and Artic Edge) worth now? 😮
@@BUPMY1 Not much. 10 bucks maybe
@@olzzon Yes they obviously have to rebuild them from scratch, but they were popular franchises; the game design is already there and proven, the maps are designed, the scope is clear - this is still a lot less effort that any new franchise. I do not understand why Sony won't capitalize on those old franchises that people are clearly wanting to play again.
Evolution doesn't exist anymore which is also a factor I imagine. I'd love Driveclub and Motorstorm to get remade for PS5 but when the people that made it are scattered around other studios I imagine the appetite to do anything with them soon vanishes.
Bloodborne also has complications because it's a Fromsoft game but a Sony IP, would probably be a lot of things to line up to get that off the ground.
They remastered a game from 2017 that zero people were asking for, but they still wont remaster Bloodborne. Absolutely baffling
There was a now canceled, planned show for HZD, so they were basically doing the same thing they did with TLOU, not to mention they made a TON of money off the remake. I guess they were too far gone with all they did with the remaster of HZD so they kept going.
It's crazy, just like them saying they don't have IPs when they have at least a dozen great games forgotten in older systems
It’s not baffling at all.. you do understand that Horizon outsold Bloodborne by like 17 million copies right? They are not going to invest in a niche game that flopped on release.
By flop, I mean sales flop. The game itself was excellent.
Never mind that what about Dino crisis! Or something in more dire need! Not games from a couple of years ago 😂
Those remasters ain't for u. All of u complsing about these remasters are clearly slow and don't know that 30 percent of all ps5 owners NEVER owned a ps4. That means over 18 million people
I love how Alex says "You get fake shadows".... you know Alex, ALL game shadows, including RT ones, are fake :P
Define fake.
@@Jonatan606 I don’t need to. It’s in the statement. Everything inside a game is fake.
@ScribblyDave There is a difference between artifical light and simulated light, even if within a video game.
That Miyamoto quote is from a time, when patches weren't a thing (for console games). game had to be as good as possible on release.
More importantly, a LOT of games were broken in one way or another and there was nothing that could be done
There’s still some truth to it. Not all problems can be patched, and not all studios can afford to maintain the game post-launch, especially if the issues run deep. But you could also argue that studios can’t always afford to delay, so a release to recoup the costs to afford patching may be the only option.
@@mechanicalmonk2020this is why I don't believe the circlejerk about games coming out broken unlike in the good old days. No, complex, ambitious games always came out busted, it's just that only during the last generation studios started having a chance to fix that. You know what we actually had back in the day? Yould have modders "fix" the game the best they could, if you were lucky
I rewatched the Ghost of Yōtei trailer again at 1/4 speed and I think the physics are quite stepped up here compared to Tsushima the trees miles in the distance seem to react with wind which is a much farther distance than anything seen in GOT unless that not gameplay footage?
Oh boy, another game about a samurai guy. How fresh.
@sellingacoerwa8318 I think you replied to the wrong comment. On the wrong channel, perhaps.
While you're correct, none of this is related to physics being simulated. Because there's practically none of that in GoT and GoY. These are run-of-the-mill foliage animation systems.
Genuine physics simulation (like in Astro Bot and Black Myth Wukong) is very rare in games.
@@sellingacoerwa8318 thats like complaining about another game with a soldier guy, another game with a knight guy, etc 🤦♂️ you’re entitled to your opinion and what interests you, but lets put two minutes of thought to what we are about to say to have more interesting conversations
@@sellingacoerwa8318 You're in luck then because it's not a guy, but a woman this time and im not ever sure she's a samurai. At least they did not make her black...
I agree that the cross gen for PS5/6 will be very long.
Could be even worse than the ps4/ps5 cross gen period. Think about economy and increasing prices for console hardware. Even less exclusives and exciting new titles…
I'm still trying to figure out what PS5 Pro is for. PS6, we definitely don't need that. Sony needs to figure out a new strategy, this increasingly expensive new console that doesn't have games justifying the expense of the new console isn't going to continue working. I still don't know why I bought a PS5, I still don't know why I'd buy a PS5 Pro, and I'm definitely not interested in a PS6.
@@MisterReen Yes, the per transistor cost is not falling anymore. Game devs will be happy to target a portable platform (Switch 2/steam deck 2) and the PS5 for as long as they can. I can see PS6 target 4K and PS5 1080p right up to the launch of PS7.
@@mjc0961last part sounds like a you problem and same could be said to many others. There are plenty of ps5 games you can play but if you’re only interested in playing COD and madden then you wasted your money lol
@@mjc0961 it's really not hard to figure out what PS5 Pro is for, it's to avoid situations like FFVII Rebirth where your options are either a blurry mess or 30fps. The perfect example of why the console is needed.
Until the title card flashed up throughout that Horizon comparison, I GENUINELY thought Oliver had mislabelled each feed. Cripes.
My conclusion is that Sony is trying to do a delicate balancing act in not diminishing the PS5 while propping the PS5 pro and the real showcase will be when the PS6 and PS5 Pro go head to head.
They will be happy to shat on it all they want and know their customers won't care
RIP Ryujinx. Pretty much guarantees the Switch2 has backwards compatibility
It's absolutely correct that if the Series S had the same RAM, it would be able to do everything the X does, at the same level of performance, just at a lower resolution. The memory is the only real bottleneck once you accomodate for a lower resolution.
I had to move countries and had to make a new account on PSN because Sony doesn't allow for changing countries, a very very basic feature that should be present in 2024. That means I lost access to a decade of PS+ titles, as my PS+ is on the new acc on my current country, not the old one. If that wasn't infuriating enough, now I can't upgrade my copy of Horizon because it was bought on the old acc and I can't make international purchases.. and then they raise the price of HZD PS4, which means that buying an upgraded version of a game I own would cost 5x more.
It is insane how Sony's stupid and ancient acc system screws over their costumers, and yet they insist on all this bullshit (raising prices of older games, like HZD and TLOUP2 over here, making PSN acc mandatory even in countries they don't support) that creates friction with costumers interested in being part of the ecosystem like me .
if u will buy it, you deserve the treatment.
PSN is not even supported in my country (Serbia) so I have using USA account from day one. The secret is PSN vouchers - buy them online for your target country (many sellers don't care if your Credit Card doesn't match that country).
The original Horizon Zero Dawn looked like it was crafted by artists, the remaster looks like it was done by AI.
Forbidden West disproves that, and the remaster looks the same. Still one of the most gorgeous games I've played. I get the hero lighting is not for everyone though
What are you blubbering about? It doesn't even make any sense what you just said. Do you realize that same artists worked on Horizon Forbidden West? So all Nixxes did was backport all technology advancements from second game into the first game and aligned visual styles to be more coherent between the two games.
@@notlekruthe did not mentioned horizon2. and he is right about the remake, looks sooo artificial :(
I'm actually glad that GoY isn't overhauling graphics that much, I love the look of the original game and it just means more time spent on actual gameplay, new mechanics, enemies etc
Is it just me or does the face of Rost look way better in the original than it does in de remaster at 30:57? Seems to have more character too it.
I agree. Like the difference between a pre and post botoxed actor, the latter looking slightly unreal and alien.
@@_Matt_handle_taken_ Exactly
PS4 isn't even dead and people talking about PS6 is just crazy... PS4-5-6 titles seems possible now
Yes, and that would be Persona 6
I really want the game design to evolve over console generations, photorealism isn't always as interesting as simply good design, rather have interesting gameplay with well made and optimized visuals
Wrong
Insanity. I'm still looking for a reason to buy a PS5.
FIFA 14 was released on PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP, and Vita.
You guys should discuss whether people should upgrade their TV or PS5 to the Pro. For people who don't currently have TVs with 120 hz or VRR, it's hard to decide if the TV should be upgraded before jumping from the base PS5 to the Pro.
Surely upgrading your TV will be significantly more expensive than trading in your PS5 for the Pro?
@@stuartcollins7616yes. but getting an oled to replace an lcd will make a bigger improvement too.
@@nattila7713 If you have a non-OLED/VRR/120hz screen, upgrading your TV/monitor would have a way bigger effect than upgrading your system right now.
The original Horizon looks better in every single shot compared to the remastered version.
They should be remastering Infamous, Resistance, Motorstorm, Killzone, God of War games collection. Horizon Zero Dawn Remaster didn't need done right now. They could have waited a couple of generations.
The absolute prose of Rich's introduction to this episode is sending me
I don't think there's anything wrong with the PSN login, but I do agree that it should be optional for single player games. If you login, you get trophies, but otherwise not a big deal. Sony can still track who is playing the game without that.
How to make more money? Sell people the games they already own..again..and again
It works, people are buying. I know I am.
The people who decide how the money is spent are terrified to take a chance on new IP with how much AAA games cost to make and how long they take to make nowadays, not to mention all the big budget AAA games bombing lately. Remastering an already popular game doesn't require a lot of manpower or time, and even if it's only sold as a $10 upgrade it's a much better bet to make a profit. At the end of the day video games are made primarily to make money, as is most entertainment media.
The comparison between the PS5 Pro and buying a better GPU for a PC is very flawed. On PC, most people have way more CPU power than they need, so buying a new GPU will indeed give them a boost to performance or resolution.
On console, games are tailored around the hardware. If a game is already dipping in performance, then we know for a fact it's a CPU bottleneck, because otherwise the developer could just drop resolution (or dynamic res would do it for them). When you can't drop resolution to improve performance, it says that it's the CPU bottlenecking you from doing so. This is not very common on PC, but it is true for nearly every game on console. When there isn't a CPU bottleneck, the game will already be running at a good performance.
So all you're left with is resolution. A 45% boost in GPU would theoretically allow for a 20% increase in resolution (1.2x width * 1.2x height = 1.44x). Which is almost nothing. Once you add in PSSR, it seems developers can't even increase the base resolution.
So the main difference you're going to see for 99% of the games out there is the same exact resolution, with the same exact performance, just with PSSR instead of whatever upscaling they were doing before. If they were already using a temporal upscaler, that means you get a more stable image, but still roughly the same level of detail as before. AI doesn't add detail. It's just better at combining it together than FSR/TSR.
I'm sorry, but there is NO world where that is anywhere near the same thing as upgrading a GPU on PC to the same level.
Add on top of that where Sony promised the PS4 Pro would be a one time thing, only because there was a specific need for 4K capable consoles at the time, plus the high price, and it's just a bad product, and we should not be supporting it. I am a Sony fanboy, but I want the PS5 Pro to fail so that Sony doesn't try to keep doing this in the future. It's a bad product and it's bad for the gaming industry. A console should be something you buy that will be the sole focus for developers over the next 7 or so years. The more we fragment developers and consumers, the worse optimization we get in games, and the less impactful each generational leap becomes. This is bad and it needs to stop. While I don't care about Xbox, I am very happy that they decided NOT to make a mid generation refresh this time around. They made the right call this time.
The ps5 pro is said to closely match the performance of a 4070/7800xt do you think it's accurate?
@@randyrrs7028 as I said, comparing it to a PC is flawed, and just not helpful of a comparison. Once again, consoles are far more likely to encounter CPU bottlenecks when you upgrade the GPU. Secondly, consoles make use of hardware in a different way than on PC, so a PC with the same specs as a console will actually perform worse.
Do you think a zen 3 cpu on the pro would've helped to run cpu limited games like dragons dogma and space marine 2 at 60fps or would it need zen 4?
@@randyrrs7028 regardless of architecture, you would need a CPU that could do twice as much work in the same amount of time
The first Ghost is gorgeous on PS5 so Yotei looking like Tsushima is a good thing imo.
You three all compliment each other really well. I also love how you all shut up and let the other person talk.
But where the new games , i don't want to replay older games ,
They spent most resources on online service games, that were all cancelled. There won't be many games in this generation.
If you scroll through the chapter names you'll see they all mention new games
Thanks Jim Ryan
There are a ton of new games coming out.
1:18:55 Not "effectively almost" twice as many CUDA cores. It's 2.02×, so easily passes the threshold of "actually" twice as many.
Motorstorm, Ridge Racer, Killzone and Resistance remastered.
@@jonathantodd9906 Killzone Shadow Fall still looking better then the most recent Halo game lmfao
Online remastered Motorstorm with races with like 50 people would be so cool.
And a new wipeout.
Yes, please, and throw wipeout in there too!
@@sanji1259 But shadow was the worst Killzone but visually it is pretty.
I’m getting ads every 4 minutes. In a 2 hour video. This is madness.
Blame Google, they are hyper aggressive with ads now
@@mmo5366 oh I figured the creators were still in charge of the ads, but DF is not at fault apparently. Thanks for letting me know!
@@jaspelino1963 Yeah, creators used to be but maybe six or twelve months ago Google took over all ad options including length and frequency, even when creators told them they didn’t want so many ads. Greed!
@@mmo5366 oof that’s rough. I’ve been closing apps like UA-cam and Twitch immediately after opening them lately because I just can’t be bothered to sit through all that crap. I wonder if pushing so many ads will hurt their bottom line at some point.
@jaspelino1963 On long form content like this video, with monetization turned on, creators do have control of mid-roll ad frequency
Wow. Would have thought the 5080 would have 24gb ram. At 16gb, that means the 5060 is going to be 8gb. Ugh
why even care about 60 cards at this point? ?They've been terrible since the 1060. 3060Ti was ok-ish sometimes but NOT for the price
Probably 12 gb and 5050 would be 8gb
@@StarmenRockWrong. They've been terrible since walking back 3060 12gb to 8gb.
xx60 series was always at previous xx80 series performance. It's good till 3060 12gb
@@StarmenRockBecause 60 cards are always the best option for smaller budgets and the most common cards in prebuilts. They are the most used cards for a reason
@@StarmenRock3060 ti was amazing
Prediction: Sucker punch, Rockstar, Naughty dog and the likes will all aim release their next games closer to the end of the current cycle to make sure their games stay relevant in the PS5/PS6 cross over.
2 of those studios are releasing games in 2025 dude
@@BrunoMael it’s heading towards the end. If it’s end of 2025 then in theory it’s 3 years before ps5 in time for remaster. But could be delays as we don’t have dates. Just theories though.
We're still chasing the 6th-gen upgrade. Games only took 1-2 years in those days.
@@WaffleCake saw a random vid on the history of Rockstar. The fact that they released GTA3 and Vice city 1 year appart is quite extraordinary and I remember that being totally normal.
@@EpochFitness I always think of the leap from Spyro/Bandicoot to Ratchet & Clank/Jak & Daxter. Geometry up by 4X, Resolution up by [4X] for 16X detail-PLUS 2X to render distance. 32X? within Year-1? Pretty much. This opened doors to GAMEPLAY which developers already knew were comming for years.
Today, the only door is full Path-Tracing-a door which homogenizes artistic targets. The industry is changing.
Ghost of Yotei looks like it was cross-gen during development and probably switched to PS5 exclusively later on
PS4 was 30 fps. PS5 is 60 fps. That is transformative.
We need to give developers a break. If Yotei isn't a generational leap over Tsushima I'm fine with that. It still looks gorgeous.
50:48 please repeat it again and again until it’s done right 🤩
2025 is gonna be stacked with graphical benchmarks
Gta6,ghost2,DS2
what can I say, a lot to look forward to indeed!
Alex, I can tell you that the entire reason I purchased a 4k TV was due to the PS4 Pro, and I am SO GLAD I did. Next will be a 4k/120 OLED.... When this one dies.
The problem I have with the "phone" model of consoles is just that it seems so wasteful to buy a new console when only one component is improved. I feel similarly about the Ps5 Pro, people tend to say it is designed primarily for current ps5 owners and I'd agree, but that's essentially like me buying a whole new PC with exactly the same parts as my current PC apart from the GPU, which just seems wasteful and overly redundant
Yeah. The console manufacturers and game developers also don't gain anything from doing a lot of iterative console versions. It makes sense to do a new console generation once there is a substantial improvement at a reasonable price, otherwise it's quite pointless.
Also worth noting that the only reason that model caught on with phones is because carriers offer monthly surcharge + trade-in programs. Nobody just walks into a store and buys a phone for $1,000 every year.
Good point!
I only understand why Alex is laughing about 30% of the time.
Incredulity mostly.
Alex is the Max Kellerman of DF… yall know what I mean
Looks like a 2nd hand 4090 is the choice for me. The 5090 gonna be insanely expensive and 5080 needs more VRAM.
1:22:29 IMHO if 5080 is 10% better as claimed than a 4090. Its RT,Path Tracing or DLSS performance. No way that's pure raster.
agreed. Lot of these numbers are slyly using DLSS / FSR for the gains. Gone are the days where you get pretty good gains going from one tier to the next based on rastorization alone..
Isint it normal for 80 class to beat previous flagship , or are you thinking they gona beat us down even more 😢
How do they even measure the difference? Tflops between gpu generations are not really a good unit.
@@viking9442 I'm just looking at the supposed specs. Raster is lower on paper
@@schneckenwilly bandwidth also bro its not mathing.
The perspective / foreshortening has changed quite a lot everywhere. It doesn't even look like just a different default lens. Old HZD had an odd feature that felt like a fisheye lens effect, it seem to have distorted distances. This was fixed in FW. Apparently here as well.
5090 is looking to be $2500 msrp and $5000 scalped.
5080 $1299-$1499 msrp and $2000 scalped
Yup - My first thought seeing 5090 was $2600
Good thing my 4090 will support me skipping this gen of GPUs.
Hard to believe Nvidia will leave any profits to scalpers. They will increase the price so much that supply will satisfy demand.
@@tylerhill40 I doubt the 60 series will be any better in terms of value. Probably worse unless Intel and/or AMD can catch up (unlikely).
"If not on PS5 at least on PS5 Pro" when talking about a 60fps mode in a Sony exclusive title should never be said. There is no way they won't give us a 60fps mode on a standard PS5. That would be the worst move to make after how well the first one performed. We need to have 60 in a fast samurai game nowadays imo. Very few games can do 30 in a smooth way for me.
Yotei’s level of fidelity gives me the idea that it’ll have great image quality and won’t need to cheat to get to 4K.
Is that Pro exclusive?
@@BUPMY1 There are no pro exclusives.
@@pixeljauntvr7774 What I mean is that will the base PS5 have good image quality and doesn't need to cheat to get 4K
You guys need to look at the first Ghost game again, Yotei has significant boost in texture resolution and world object density. As well as he world ambient lighting and effects are far better. The cloud and fog stuff going on here is a huge step up and looks incredible.
Ah, the week has begun
1:44:16 adorable little squeak from Rich
Latest TGS stream about Wilds was running near the 60s on a base PS5!
Also lmao, called it that the Pro wasnt gonna have a boost for DD2, hilarious that it runs better on the standard
Unless TGS showed otherwise, I'd assume that's 60fps with framegen. Which is not OK, especially for a timing-sensitive game.
@@concinnus It wasnt framegen, you would be able to tell. Also why would they use it when even DD2 demonstrated it can run well?
also, from reddit:
" despite what everyone here is claiming, it is almost certainly NOT using frame generation to hit 60 fps. Aside from the lack of major disocclusion artifacting, you can see UI elements on screen tracking NPCs smoothly at a 60fps update. If the game was running at 30 or 40 fps and using frame gen to hit it's 60fps target, the UI would appear to stutter because it can only update on the actual game logic loop. Additionally, no - they are almost certainly not doing "frame generation" on the UI itself, because UI elements don't have motion vectors and text would be completely unreadable."
@@Crabo99 DD2 runs well? omegalul -- even after the last patch it's 30-45fps on console. That's one reason 60fps on MHW is probably FG. The other reason is the min/rec specs say 30fps on a 3600 or 60fps with FG on a 3600X. And the 3600 is a console-equivalent CPU. Also, the streams I saw were compressed into soup, there's no way you can tell if they're using FG. You need to lay off the copium, my dude.
@@concinnusLatest DD2 patch runs near the 60s on a standard ps5, even better than the Pro which stutters more for some reason. Its in this video.
This is not framegen, if DD2 didnt use it, why would Wilds? These games are usually worse optimized on PC than console, I hope for PC players it actually runs better than the specs are lookin.
It wouldnt be the first time for a capcom game to be better optimized on console than pc at launch. These arent rock solid 60 mind you, but it is definetely not framegen
He clearly said that he had everything on low on the base ps5 to achieve those framerates. The ps5 pro runs 55-60 with max graphics settings.
Guerilla made the Killzone series!
Why not make:
- Killzone 1 remake
- Killzone 2 res/fps remaster
- Killzone 3 res/fps remaster
- Killzone SF res/fps remaster
If they were to send Jim 'Jack' Ryan back in time, someone should send the T-1000 to stop 'Jack' from his live-service initiative.
Not everyone can't afford 900 euro for a console + 1500 euro for a decent 4k hdmi 2.1 display + new games at high prices ! as simple as that
Ghost of Yotei doesnt look to me like something that cant run on the ps4 besides maybe the draw distance
i think a good example of a possible translation issue is this recent capcom trend of "unlocked framerate". It's like they saw everyone complaining about 30FPS and said "alright no frame limit" instead of the desired "please try to make it stable 60"
15:11 Doesn't look better at all.
They outsourced this remaster for cheap. It's extremely lazy and all artwork will be of much lower quality than original.
Why they want to damage their reputation like that is beyond me.
Also I'm confused why this obvious fact is not voiced here.
I was just going to say “do they have the screen flipped to where the remaster is actually the original?? Like digital foundry had axis key labeled it wrong?? But nope I just went back and watched it and yes in the scenes shown the remaster actively looks worse, it’s really weird. Just more “stuff” like foliage but worse textures etc. especially the characters and the detail on their clothing looks alot worse. Just pause and look at each scene from 14:57 to 15:15
The subsurface scattering looks better now, but it seems the new lighting isn't significantly better overall. And the increased hero lighting is actually worse.
@@stanislavkimov277910 hours reworked cutscenes doesn't sound cheap to me though.
Looks like a downgrade on the character models for sure.
You can dislike Sony's Remastered strategy but as for Why it's quite clear:
Use cross promotion releases such as TLOU HBO show, Family friendly Lego Horizon on Switch, Days Gone future movie to make boost the game sales without having their presentation hindred by old tech and make franchises an uniformly solid technical experience for new players.
Also considering new backward compatibility Standard, remastering a 2017 game might seem too soon now, but when 3rd Horizon game comes out for PS6, new players can experience the whole trilogy in a much better way without a decade plus game holding the experience back.
I don't know why, but I like the look of the original version of Horizon more than the remaster.
Me too
I love how staunchly PCMR Alex is! I truly love it!!
HZD remaster certainly feels unnecessary, but I’ve gotta be honest- I’ll be buying the update and playing through again for a third time.
Same :‘)
Painters used to sometimes advertise their works as ink drawings or in 'dead-coloured' levels of finish to save themselves from investing too many resources in a single work without a guarantee of it selling. Big studios, like Ubisoft, need to capitalise on the growing acceptance of early access, perhaps employing dozens of small teams of developers as 'feelers', to develop many different games until these teams produce something that attracts an audience; the studio can then back that popular early access idea with the full brunt of its AAA resources. This would be a win-win for everyone.
Why Nvidia is it soo hard to put the 5080 class back on it 320bit bus oncemore and deliver its expected 20gigs of memory as deserved?🤷♂️
This is more likely a 5070, but Nvidia made the name up and called it 5080 to sell it for 1300+ bucks and for Europe even more expensive 🤑
@@hermiandroid3672plus they'll probably release a ti version so the normal one is gimped so they can sell the ti for even more money
@hermiandroid3672 yup, definitely a Nvidia move lol.
Another issue with not releasing games on Steam for a limited time is that by the time your Star Wars game does come out on Steam, word of mouth has already destroyed the game's reputation, so less people are like to engage with it. That's how things panned out for me with Skull & Bones... if it'd been released on Steam day one I probably would have bought it, but I know better now. So by doing this Ubisoft are actually losing potential buyers many of whom would not go to the effort of chasing a refund if a game is bad.
The 5080 is such a disappointment.
I hate that the gap between the high end and halo card is widening. The top cards were always stupidly expensive for a rather modest performance boost. Now you really feel like you are missing out if you go for an 80 class card which sounds even worse when you consider that its now also 1000$+. And AMD seems to have given up which lets Nvidia do whatever they want.
There are no bad GPUs, only bad prices. Except the 6400-6500xt of course. They're just bad.
Might as well wait for the 6080
It seems likely from the specs that the 5080 will be slower than the 4090.
@@dookieshoes3585then buy the 5080
The part which Alex claims Avatar isn't using Ubisoft formula was unbelievable to heart considering how the entire game is Farcry base capturing even most of main quest missions! 🤦
Lego Horizon is precisely WHY they remastered Zero Dawn, it's a day 1 Switch game designed to get people from that audience into PlayStation, much like the TV shows are intended to grow PlayStation's audience. Nintendo has a huge untapped market of potential PlayStation customers, both Lego Horizon and the remaster were funded in an attempt to expand PlayStation's coalition while expanding the IP itself.
wat? remaster getting a switch release?
@@nattila7713
No, Lego Horizon on the Switch is designed to interest Nintendo players into the IP and migrate/graduate over to PlayStation. A new PS5 copy of Zero Dawn is done to capitalize off that, like Last of Us, both franchises have PS5 copies of both entries on store shelves.
They do the same with PC players, putting part 1 of a game before part 2 releases as a PS5 exclusive, forcing those invested in the stories/IPs to get a console. All their decisions are part of a strategy to expand their audience.
I love you guys! The show is amazing and I didn’t even notice the track of time. The 2 hours were like 20 minutes at most ❤
Killzone 2 & 3 should really get the remaster treatment. PlayStation hasn't had a first party FPS since Shadowfall... Which came out nearly 11 years ago.
KZ2 multiplayer was legendary. I loves hoping into that then switching to H3 for a few more hours. good times gone now.
@@albertcamus6611 H3?
@@MGsubbie Halo 3 lol
Concord *was* a first party FPS
@@nc630 Oh right, I forgot about that game already lol.
I'm so happy to not worry about any specs, just play the damn game
They are literally wasting time and resources remastering horizon zero dawn, absolutely no one asked for it
Thats been the entire ps5 gen, and it's their most popular console so don't expect any more consumer friendly choices to come.
Shadow of the Colossus, Bloodborne
@@elyasshussain5988 Bloodborne people literally punching air right now, sony is so blind
When AMD say they are not going to compete at the high end, they probably mean that they are only going to make up to a 5060 competitor, but I really hope they just mean they are not going to bother with trying to make something like a 5090.
On The AC Shadows delay 3 months isn't long to make changes but Ubisoft has 16 studios working on Shadows and a low estimate of 10000 developers with Millions of man hours per month fair to say they can do quite a lot with that type of Human Resource in 3 months
My 1080p LG TV from 2014 is still more than fine! Not throwing it away because it aint broke. Let me just choose a 1080p mode and use all the other bandwidth that comes free by choosing so allocate to better/more frames, less pop-in, more fidelity and more physx
I'm personally so over the ray-tracing craze and Alex's constant efforts to over-blow its advantages while almost never mentioning its massive drawbacks (image stability, extreme performance impact, etc.). Yes, there's a few games with major visual improvements over rasterization, but they are very few and I'd argue that those games that have RT no matter what ie. Star Wars Outlaws & Avatar: FoP...both look best with the lowest possible setting for RT due to the extreme image stability problem with combining DLSS and RT Lighting, better to have great graphics and good image stability...not MAX RTX!! and awful image stability.
Ghost of Yotei looks absolutely amazing and clearly isn't using major RT features, that's a good thing. The lighting looks designed, not just ray-lit. I don't want realism over a great looking cinematic image and clarity. Those candles for example are a good example of video game graphics being BETTER THAN REAL LIFE. Yes, the candle would be washed out in real life...but in virtual, you can get both the outside light AND the candle light for a more cinematic and complete image. I know that people who want nothing but RT everywhere will disagree, but baked lighting and low-RT features look better when done well. Space Marine 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon games, Throne and Liberty (new MMO, kinda pay to win but awesome graphics), etc. show that baked is still the absolute king of good visuals AND great performance. I won't change my mind until the performance cost is solved or mitigated AND all image stability issues are removed from RT lighting, that disgusting swimming look to RT in most games is just awful and it's even worse when you have Ray Reconstruction!
I would argue that both Horizon games are actually an example where baked lighting often doesn't look good. It's an open world with dynamic time of day, so it's not surprising it often doesn't look right, e.g. at dawn. It looks videogamey. Avatar and SW Outlaws just look correct in terms of lighting. Though baked lighting often does make sense in other types of games (not open world).
I like how Alex broke down all these factors. I have ambivalent feelings as well. However as an enthusiast buyer of 4090 I look at that like a NV link or SLI budget system and a 4080 or 5080 being like a single high end chip solution. People kinda forget how the high end enthusiast system used to be. One question though that I have ALWAYS wondered was why the push to end SLI and NVLink because it DID work pretty well for the most part until they forced out profile support at the driver level and made Nvinspector more difficult to use. It's as if MAYBE they knew the deep learning Ai research was going to go solely to the multi gpu data centers and had to remove any enthusiast access? To shift to more reliance on less brute power and more inferential capabilities? But we are really at CPU limitations more than ever. PS6 probably won't be more powerful than a 4090 which will show a LOT of ROI for people who don't upgrade
Oof, the amount of ads in these videos is really becoming unbearable. I appreciate the fact that you guys need to make a living, but lately I find myself simply closing UA-cam instead of finishing the video more often than not.
Wow, such first world problems, unreal. Is it hard to sit for a few seconds and hit the skip button? There is a thing called ad block, too. You're getting this for free, yet you still complain.
I’ve gotten hardly any
@@R17759 “runs fine on my machine”
Alex has a great point, Ghost of Tsushima and Ghost of Yotei are 5 years apart and a console generation apart but it doesn't have a significant leap graphicswise from the trailer shown. Ollie was right to point that it looks really good but no significant improvements nonetheless.
Only way a 5080 is faster than a 4090 by 10% is in path tracing titles. Rasterization gains going 4080 to 5080 are going to be a joke. Less than 15% most likely. It's just a 10% clock bump with no big changes to the SM units.
The 10% number seems to be pure fantasy.
Don't forget that architecture changes are difficult to account for outside of benchmarks. Even if all stats, like operating frequency, are the same, you can't directly compare. So, I'd hold off on pessimism for now.
There is no way a 5080 is faster than 4090. Every single spec is worse than 4090. No amount of architectural changes can overcome these deficiencies. 8GB less VRAM too.
People hoping for a $999 4090 killer are deluding themselves and will be severely disappointed. It looks even worse when we looks at the 400W TDP. 4090 is 450W.
This just isn't true. A 7800X3D running at 1.6GHz would cream a 2700X
It's possible they have something huge here, but I understand the skepticism@@Raivo_K
Sony retroactively raised the price of Zero Dawn to $39.99 so if you upgrade you spend $49.99 - which is the price of the Remaster.
Sony hasn’t lowered the price of Zero Dawn on Steam to $39.99 (it’s still $49.99). So if you buy it now and then pay $10 to upgrade you will spend $59.99…which is $10 more than the Remaster.
Moral of the story, if you can’t get it for dirty cheap from a code seller site, wait until the Remaster releases.
How often does rich get a new chair? Is he sponsored and thats why he always leans to show the logo?
I don’t have problem one with the visuals on the existing HZD. If Guerrilla wants to fix something, they can work on the NUMEROUS instances where characters decide to deliver voice over exposition during an especially noisy combat moment.
I feel like you guys waaaaayyyy over analyzed ghost of yotei trailer... That just felt like a cinematic trailer
What else is there to talk about? They do the same for every trailer and this was in-game so why wouldn't they talk about it? Cope much
Cinematic trailer looking like that???
You might be on the wrong channel then because this is their job lol
They spent 40 minutes talking about the GTA 6 trailer
It was a mix of cinematic and in game engine.
It had a bunch of visual artifacts and shortcomings, though, so it must be a pretty good indication of the game's tech. It would be weird of them to purposefully put those kinds of mistakes into a pre-rendered cinematic trailer lol
With the gap between high end and lower priced GPU’s increasing, I think DF’s optimized settings and technical analysis becomes more important. It’s remarkable how many games have come out that can only really stretch their legs on a 4080/4090, or even just a 4090.