What's your opinion regarding The Balrogs? Let me know in the comments! Don't forget to subscribe www.youtube.com/@The.Lore.Seeker?sub_confirmation=1 Also check out the other videos ua-cam.com/play/PLfWUoG6RPjBC51dSR5yYXZLouVphXBW_3.html
Accurate or no, Jackson's version was what introduced me to it. When I was watching the film first time as a kid and it made its appearance, something in me clicked, and I think it's shaped how I view cinema from that point on. It left a profound, permanent impact on me. The demonic balrog feels *right* to me.
The movie version doesn't really even have full wings - just a set of structure which is covered in heavy smoke and darkness, much like the book describes. Humanoid figure can also be easily interpreted into a beastly monstrosity that only resembles human in overall posture and body proportions, it doesnt need to resemble a human exactly. Many things in the scene in the movie have things taken straight out of the book with only slight alterations to fit a big screen, so it's pretty harsh to say that it's completely made wrong. Still everyone has their own vision of things so the Balrog will always look a bit different for every reader.
Absolutely! I totally agree-movies often take creative liberties to fit the screen while staying true to the essence of the book. The Balrog’s depiction definitely captures that dark, monstrous vibe, even if it’s not an exact match. Different interpretations can make for some really interesting discussions!
Balrogs had no wings and could not fly. I'll give you three pieces of evidence. Edit: 2:39 IMO is the perfect depiction of a Balrog. The weakest piece is actually that first description, "spread out like wings", writing "like wings" would be a very odd and almost purposely confusing and redundant way to describe anything to do with a being that had physical wings. He could have written "spread like a great storm cloud" or whatever or just wrote "the wings", but using the phrase "like wings" strongly implies no wings and again is just very strange way to describe a winged being. Two. For all the Balrogs that we know died, falling played a big part in all their deaths and one of them in fact did just fall to its death. Again this is very, very odd writing, to have flying beings die by falling or having this playing a big part in their deaths. Especially since they just fall and are never described as having their ability to fly compromised before falling. Why didn't Durins Bane just fly away and leave Gandalf down there to die alone in the dark? But reason 3 is what seals the fate of wings vs no wings. Balrogs are ancient beings and had taken their fiery form thousands upon thousands of years before the coming of Morgoths winged dragons. And it was only with the coming of the winged dragons that Morgoth got an air force, that he was finally able to take the fight into the skies. Now this would be a truly huge oversight on Tolkien's part, to make such a big deal about Morgoth getting flying monsters if he in fact had flying forces the entire time. That he had an air force yet could never find the hidden city of Gondolin, never describing them defending Morgoths territory from the eagles, not taking part in the aerial battle against Earendil in Vingilot etc.
Thanks for sharing this detailed breakdown! You've made some solid points about the Balrog wings debate-really makes you think about how Tolkien chose his words. Appreciate the insight!
I will never understand the degree to which some people will argue this point, and even choose to die on that hill. Who are the Blue Wizards? What is the origin of the Orcs? Even thevgreat author sometimes said a thing, just to then never again reference it, or elaborate, while otherswere things he had d3cided, but then later waffled, and considered changing it. I guess it is more "What would you have seen if you were standing in TOLKIEN'S room with Durin's Bane?", and less "What could DB have done?", but I can see numerous reasons why I feel likeva Balrog COULD have wings, and maybe even should, to fan flames, and float on heat currents. To illustrate their angelic, though fallen, status. They are also Maiar, like Sauron, and so I can't see why he would be the only Maiar with so protean a form? He shifted from form to form; from great werewolf to aloft bat. He could grant himself wings, and the power of flight, so why wouldn't DB be able to sprout wings, if it wanted, or stow them, while squeezing through caverns ,underground? I admit that I don't know if DB had wings; if Tolkien intended it, was using simile, or if they were also competent shape shifters, and could gain them, samecas their weapons, but I'm totally comfortable with the idea that, if they wanted to, they could. Considering how big Ungoliant should have been, when Balrogs had to go save their whimpering master, and the distance they would have had to cover, I feel likecat least some did, and could, have wings, but I'm just one fan,, and I can accept that others will want to disagree, orcat least enjoy the friendly debate. 😊
so you say its not accurate, then you give quotes showing it is mostly accurate (other than perhaps size). then you keep saying its not accurate. got it
What's your opinion regarding The Balrogs? Let me know in the comments!
Don't forget to subscribe www.youtube.com/@The.Lore.Seeker?sub_confirmation=1
Also check out the other videos ua-cam.com/play/PLfWUoG6RPjBC51dSR5yYXZLouVphXBW_3.html
I love that you accept that both depictions have their merits.
Accurate or no, Jackson's version was what introduced me to it. When I was watching the film first time as a kid and it made its appearance, something in me clicked, and I think it's shaped how I view cinema from that point on. It left a profound, permanent impact on me.
The demonic balrog feels *right* to me.
Excellent points.
The movie version doesn't really even have full wings - just a set of structure which is covered in heavy smoke and darkness, much like the book describes. Humanoid figure can also be easily interpreted into a beastly monstrosity that only resembles human in overall posture and body proportions, it doesnt need to resemble a human exactly. Many things in the scene in the movie have things taken straight out of the book with only slight alterations to fit a big screen, so it's pretty harsh to say that it's completely made wrong. Still everyone has their own vision of things so the Balrog will always look a bit different for every reader.
Absolutely! I totally agree-movies often take creative liberties to fit the screen while staying true to the essence of the book. The Balrog’s depiction definitely captures that dark, monstrous vibe, even if it’s not an exact match. Different interpretations can make for some really interesting discussions!
@@The.Lore.Seeker so which is it? PJ COMPLETELY misunderstood Tolkien's Balrogs or it still captured that dark, monstrous vibe?
Balrogs can have wings and also be flightless.
Tolkien probably didn't intend for them to have wings, but they look cool.
6:00 "Hundreds of feet." Really? The Balrog in the film is only about 18 feet tall.
I stopped the video after that. That's where he lost me.
So Balrogs didn't have wings, they just looked like and behaved as if they did.
I don't think PJ went too far off the rails but details could be altered. This vid was great! Thank you!
The images at 2:39 is nearly perfect, in my horribly biased opinion...
Balrogs had no wings and could not fly. I'll give you three pieces of evidence.
Edit: 2:39 IMO is the perfect depiction of a Balrog.
The weakest piece is actually that first description, "spread out like wings", writing "like wings" would be a very odd and almost purposely confusing and redundant way to describe anything to do with a being that had physical wings. He could have written "spread like a great storm cloud" or whatever or just wrote "the wings", but using the phrase "like wings" strongly implies no wings and again is just very strange way to describe a winged being.
Two. For all the Balrogs that we know died, falling played a big part in all their deaths and one of them in fact did just fall to its death. Again this is very, very odd writing, to have flying beings die by falling or having this playing a big part in their deaths. Especially since they just fall and are never described as having their ability to fly compromised before falling. Why didn't Durins Bane just fly away and leave Gandalf down there to die alone in the dark?
But reason 3 is what seals the fate of wings vs no wings. Balrogs are ancient beings and had taken their fiery form thousands upon thousands of years before the coming of Morgoths winged dragons. And it was only with the coming of the winged dragons that Morgoth got an air force, that he was finally able to take the fight into the skies. Now this would be a truly huge oversight on Tolkien's part, to make such a big deal about Morgoth getting flying monsters if he in fact had flying forces the entire time. That he had an air force yet could never find the hidden city of Gondolin, never describing them defending Morgoths territory from the eagles, not taking part in the aerial battle against Earendil in Vingilot etc.
Thanks for sharing this detailed breakdown! You've made some solid points about the Balrog wings debate-really makes you think about how Tolkien chose his words. Appreciate the insight!
If he had REAL wings why did he fall? I think its more of a projectjon to LOOK scary.
...it would work on me... 😂
Haha, you and me both.
I will never understand the degree to which some people will argue this point, and even choose to die on that hill. Who are the Blue Wizards? What is the origin of the Orcs? Even thevgreat author sometimes said a thing, just to then never again reference it, or elaborate, while otherswere things he had d3cided, but then later waffled, and considered changing it. I guess it is more "What would you have seen if you were standing in TOLKIEN'S room with Durin's Bane?", and less "What could DB have done?", but I can see numerous reasons why I feel likeva Balrog COULD have wings, and maybe even should, to fan flames, and float on heat currents. To illustrate their angelic, though fallen, status. They are also Maiar, like Sauron, and so I can't see why he would be the only Maiar with so protean a form? He shifted from form to form; from great werewolf to aloft bat. He could grant himself wings, and the power of flight, so why wouldn't DB be able to sprout wings, if it wanted, or stow them, while squeezing through caverns ,underground?
I admit that I don't know if DB had wings; if Tolkien intended it, was using simile, or if they were also competent shape shifters, and could gain them, samecas their weapons, but I'm totally comfortable with the idea that, if they wanted to, they could. Considering how big Ungoliant should have been, when Balrogs had to go save their whimpering master, and the distance they would have had to cover, I feel likecat least some did, and could, have wings, but I'm just one fan,, and I can accept that others will want to disagree, orcat least enjoy the friendly debate. 😊
Well, if you read Gandalf's 'report' of his fight with the balrog, at least this one obviously was a competent shapeshifter. So, good point.
Peter Jackson was right to do it the way he did, that’s all I’m gonna say.
One cannot mis understand books. They are meant to be read together with your imagination, which you obviously lack.
so you say its not accurate, then you give quotes showing it is mostly accurate (other than perhaps size). then you keep saying its not accurate. got it