A slight correction, in my credits I listed some guy named Alex of The Serfs when I meant to write Dave of The Serfs. There is no Alex. Here's a full castlist: Ali - Rayshaun/Patriot Ariana - Sharon Carter Dave of The Serfs - Sam Wilson/Captain America Eric - Dr. Strange JackSaint - Thor Jangles Sciencelad - Red Skull and Hawkeye Kathrin - Maria Hill Lance of The Serfs - Steve Rogers/Captain America Lexi - Emma Frost Mexie - Black Widow Naima - Captain Marvel and Kobik NerdSync - Rocket Raccoon and Monster Guy 1 T1J - Miles Morales/Spider-Man Timbah - Kobra Tristan - Ant-Man Vadim - Supreme Serpent Yeah Nah - Boomerang And I did the following voices - Hank Pym, Tony Stark, Peter Parker/Spider-Man, Beast, Border-Crossing Guy, Moustache Guy, Diner Guy, and Monster Guy 2
@@UA-camChannel-dk5xv My biggest recommendation is to not worry at all about continuity starting out. If I can recommend, go into a store and just ask the staff what they would recommend (may be helpful to have an idea beforehand but not strictly necessary) or just look for a recent new storyline or #1 and go with it. Alternatively, I believe marvel has a netflix like subscription service to read their comics and DC has a similar service (I think DCs is less comics focused and more focused on the extended media around comics such as cartoons and movies based on them but I think it still has comics).
@Ivan Ivanovich Ivanovosky whiteness as a racial category didn't exist when the norse existed. So no, they weren't white, anymore than Bach wrote hiphop.
@Ivan Ivanovich Ivanovosky what was that? An attempt at saying "we were" in old norse? If so you failed. Just sayin. But no, "we" weren't. And also, the norse don't exist anymore. Saying norse people were "white" is as ahistorical as saying Brittish people today are romans because at another point in history people sharing some traits with them were roman. "White people" are a sociopolitical category, not a description of color. Because we aren't the color white, we are some mix of pink and beige hues. And it's a relatively modern category that emerged in the 17th century as part of the chattel slave trade. I recommed the paper "White Caesar, Black Odysseus: When did 'white people' become 'white?", by James H. Dee.
@@rhettblood4403 When I finally finish with school and have some more free time and money (or at least money when I get a job), I plan on starting with super-hero comics. I've been watching linkara and comic Drake for years (linkara since almost his very beginning, before the end of his first year) and watched comicstorian for awhile. I'm really interested but just feel I need some more time and money before I jump in.
@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat if you're into dc stuff they have a streaming service that offers a bunch of new and old comics for only 8 dollars a month as well as some TV shows and movies
From a modern day political perspective, this is the only time a plot as insane as Secret Empire could happen AND be taken seriously, rather than comic booky absurdism
And that's of course because it's not that people don't want politics in comics people dont want politics that differ from their own in comics. How dare anyone put their own thoughts and opinions in their art
That's a misinterpretation of the complaint, what people don't want in their comics and indeed in media in general is political correctness specifically, regardless of alignment.
@@superapm9620 for some im sure you're correct. One of the problems with "political correctness" is its subjective. I may find something increadibly in appropriate and offensive, while another person says im just looking for political correctness. I will admit that there are many things people find as offensive that i don't understand but who am i to determine what offends them? to me its simple. be reasonable. this is for all involved. ultimately however understand that you can not control other individuals and their rights to speach. Just like you can't control people's rights to object to your speech.
@@williamjones7751 I know for sure i am not political correct for i am a SJW anarchist and what ever i try to say they try to silent me and heck I get death treats for my political belief , heck it is more ok to be Nazi here in Sweden then be an anarchist. Political correctness is what mainstream accept as political views and if you go outside those perimeters you face consequences, some times they are justified as you are vile bigot or fucking stupid, but it could be that you challenge the status quo. Example on a bigot is Pastor Anderson who think you shall kill all gays, example on stupid/crazy ppl are flat earthers and creationists and an example on those who challenge status quo is socialists and anarchists who think the system should work differently and challenge the economics and politics of the mainstream.
"People will never see Steve Rogers the same way again" until writers start forgetting, like a year after give or take, like Iron Man being a US pressident.
Yeah, that's the reason why i struggles with super heroes comics :/ There's some really good stuff, like we saw here, but the fact that the story can never have a proper ending makes that some later stories may undermind the meaning of the older ones :/ I think a long running series as Doctor Who can have similar problems
Captain America was a werewolf, Tony Stark has died twice in the last 8 years, Peter Parker was a clone, and then he wasn't, the Hulk was dead, then dead again, then dead again and then he can't die. People complaining about shakeups in the status quo don't really seem to get that everything is temporary (mostly because they keep complaining whenever something changes)
Great Work, really well done Analysis. The one thing that I think you missed, perhaps intentionally, was that some of the blowback against Secret Empire was less superficial than simple hurt over the tarnishing of a symbol. A great many of the voices knew full well that Trumpism and the alt right, which at the time were still almost indistinguishable from the general anti-SJW/anti-diversity movement seen on UA-cam and other social media, were being challenged by this story. Effectively they felt that they were being called out as Nazi's. And while you acknowledge that Nazism isn't the same as modern American Fascism, the message was definitely for them.
This was amazing!! Thank you for taking the time to make such a long video and go into such depth! And thank you for asking me to be part of it for one of the voices! Excited to see your channel grow even more!
Two things stood out in my mind as the vid wrapped up: 1, you're absolutely right that the discussion of whether or not that image of Steve Rogers saying "Hail Hydra" cedes the character to the fascists is only a surface-level reading of Captain America as a symbol and that got me thinking, "Fascists would LOVE it if all people thought about this was that Captain America is now one of them, fascism runs entirely on surface-level presentation." They traffic in illusions of strength, illusions of terror and illusions of the past, and looking past that facade, facing the uncomfortable contexts and realities is what stops fascism, exposing their lies for what they are. 2, as some people back when this was still the hot controversy likely pointed out, Fascist Steve Rogers' big reveal was at THE BEGINNING of Secret Empire, meaning that dealing with his evil would likely be HOW this arc ultimately resolved. Hydra Steve is not Secret Empire's PROTAGONIST. He is being fought AGAINST for the majority of the plot. As Neil Gaiman famously wrote, paraphrasing G.K. Chesterton: " Fairy tales are more than true - not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten." Secret Empire, likewise, shows not just that fascism is there, but that it's beatable.
And kids will understand that when they read it And that cover won't be taken out of context by "alt righters" Sure just make it easy for them, whatever. Shouldn't have been a light novel or original story instead
I'm repeatedly impressed by your ability to make super long videos and still have excellent pacing. This was over an hour and a half and I wasn't bored at all.
that was so good man. the depth of comics always surprises me, as a dude who never reads them i love videos on this subject. thanks for getting me on board. vadims bit had me in stitches
I didn't hear about literally any of this when the discussions about it were taking place. Really goes to show how using one little bit and some framing can totally change around the meaning of something
@@stuartsmith4369 Yep, people should look at the entire story in context with the analysis it needs before condemning all of the staff behind the story as bad people.
Its just insane to me that people didn't realize that it was obviously going to lead to an anti fascist messge in the end. Everyone was acting like this was so stupid and horrible without thinking once "hmmm maybe that's the fucking point? 🤔" I mean like, good god guys didya think it would end with them advocating it when the scene is clearly presented as an "oh shit that's not good" moment? People fucking floor me man. Conservatives especially. Its like they know we all think Hitler is bad but yet they don't see how the same kind of fear mongering has lead to their way of thinking and evolves slowely but surely into something that targets groups as the cause of all their problems and tries to kill them.
Great work! And the voice actors did a fantastic job, too. I especially want to call out the woman who voiced the Captain Marvel monologue. That delivery was so so good.
That part where you showed Carol genuinely remorseful over actions in Civil War II proved something to me. A year before I starting comic collecting, I was told marvel made captain marvel an authoritarian whose actions are never challenged or condemned by the story and goes unacknowledged by anyone else after that story. She never takes accountability for being an authoritarian and expects everyone to forgive her. They also made Karen jokes because of the haircu because these were dude bros. Anyways, the general vibe I got was that I should avoid Captain marvel comics, or at the very least, don’t buy books with her in them. (which I did ignore because the current avengers run has her as a main player and that was one of the first few books I picked up). Again, this is what the internet told me. However, They failed to mention the Secret Empire panel that you showed where Carol was talking to Quasar, where she not only takes accountability for her actions in Civil War II, but explains why she felt why those actions were right (which she admits were definitely selfish reasons and that aren’t justifiable) which kinda adds a whole new layer to her character IMO. Anyways, it proved to me that once comic fans hate something (particularly women), you can’t change their minds and they’ll ignore evidence to the contrary of their thesis. That aside, fantastic video José. I kinda wish more lefttubers would analyze the politics of media, especially comics.
@@ravenwhiteduck3158 what part of this version of Bucky doesn't want that kind of burden being placed on him do you not understand? Plus, he's seen as a terrorist by the majority of the world, you can't expect regular people to just let go of what he did during his time as the Winter Soldier, this isn't the comics. Stop crying
This video scares me in a way I can't explain. A symbol that I've always tied to freedom and goodness, converted into a symbol of hatred and bigotry terrifies me. I am not a minority, but I worry for those who are of fascism becomes more accepted. Most people who are not familiar with the internet do not even know this is a thing! They don't understand how people with well-meaning beliefs can fall down a hole of hatred. My grandparents are worried about socialism and government aid, while this should be their concern.
Yep, a scary thing that happened for the sake of seeing an interesting and compelling deconstruction of a character that, however much one values, is pretty clearly meant to be anti-Nazist/anti-fascist, and playing with that perception, responsibly anyway, can make things more interesting. Indeed, not all lunatics wear swastikas, and those who seek to hurt others more and more aren't always quickly identifiable and come out anywhere at any time.
This was so good...I was shocked by how people just couldn't see what Spencer was doing while this run was happening...it's like they literally thought he turned Cap into a Nazi because he was pro-fascism or something. They couldn't see the deeper meaning and messages buried in the series.
this was a really excellent video, and completely changed my view on this comic. i was dumb and went with the general revile towards it instead of reading it for myself. i really hope this comic gains a much better reputation with people like you doing such excellent analysis on it. thank you for this, really! would love to keep seeing longer form videos from you in the future, if youve got them in you.
I've wanted someone to make this video for ages, as someone who is leftwing and loves comics I thought this storyline was an amazing and extremely critical of not just fascism but Americas, I think the story line fell victim to click bate journalism, I don't blame them entirely state of online journalism due to adblock has just made it awful.
I like your points but what grates me is the whole premise that hydra!Steve would never question the fascist upbringing. This is determist viewpoint that's dark and it’s not undone by realistic means but by magic. I feel like the allegory here kills the message
Man, this comic series was so divisive; I personally love it though. And I'm glad to find other people who understand it the way I do. The only valid criticism (so aside from people who totally did not get it) I heard on this comic series, was that it was too long. I understand that because it's 12 issues of the situation getting worse and worse until the end. But I read it in collected edition, so it was just a blast. Thank you for making this video. I hope that it changes the opinion of at least one person who did not like it.
This was such an amazingly fascinating and in depth dissection of a story I'd never read and never figured would've been more than the hype that surrounded it when I'd catch wind of it via passing headlines. Thank you for this. You're spot on in your connections too. The moment you'd say or drop an idea, the immediate real world equivalent would more often than not be the same one you'd then present. Its encouraging to see when others understand the same situations and real world issues as they're happening and why right now is such a turbulent era that history will look back upon in wonder. I wish you nothing but success in the roads you travel and the stories you weave for us, the audience. Thank you
Dude. This is quite honestly the most intelligent and thought-provoking piece of video I've seen and it's brilliant. Finally someone actually gets it. Secret Empire has been great because of how bold and engaging it is FYI: You didn't mention "Captain America Reborn" with Steve then in the body of Red Skull, which was converted to look like Steve. And that AI Tony was suppose to be regular Tony, but that changed after what Bendis did in Civil War 2
Yeah it should be. The only views outside of big comic guys are views leaning right. just wanted to know what about marvel comics are actually bad at objective levels, or just right wing butt hurt.
I was kind of on the no thanks train back when the hail hydra thing happened, but I really shouldve waited for context I guess. Seems Spencer is no remender
Moreover, the vast majority likely did not read the comic. They just saw Captain America saying hail Hydra without any context that's all that was focused on.
@@CrossKnights you dont even need to read it everyone should know this is comic books. when a character turns evil theres always a convoluted explanation
Any have any thoughts on justsomeguy? He actually reads the comics and isn't really focused on the politic unless there's not much else with the comic or is genuinely flawed.
@@CrossKnights I don't think most people who get mad at stuff read comics, or if they do they don't understand them. Comics have always done things to shake up the status quo, and they almost always go back to normal after awhile. Did people really think Steve was going to stay a fascist? Did people really think Jane would stay the main Thor? (not to mention in the context of that series it was apart of an even bigger story to grow Thor) People recently got mad at Steve questioning the "American dream", and like have you not read a Cap comic in decades? Have they ever read any comic ever? They've always been left leaning and always included politics.
@@IkeOkerekeNews General Custer was the guy who'd lead the Black Hills Expeditions, culminating in The Battle of the Little Bighorn, where he'd lead a company of 208 officers (584 if you count the other groups on his side) against a group of Plains Indians somewhere between 1,000 and 5,000 (though it's usually around 1,000 and-1,800). He and all his men died. He's essentially a guy whose loss was so great, it's essentially a "Remember the Alamo" moment of American History.
imo this comic is a fascist government that could still be overthrown. 1954 depicts a totalitarian government that has taken root so deeply it could never be unseated. so it seems a little unbelievable/extreme, but that's simply an example of where the ideology might lead
Secret Wars was great, you bad bird, it had fun action, some great moments and a nice examination of ultimate power and what it would mean to mortal people. Come on, it has the moment where the Hulk carries an entire mountain, with probably the best comic cover ever.
Good video, I do appreciate the story now. However, it seems disingenuous to say that people who didn't like the Hail Hydra reveal are susceptible to fascism. The majority of people I remember being upset by that were minorities - especially Jews, who were particularly upset that a character by two Jewish men to tell kids that Hitler is evil was poisoned as a secret anti-Semite. Being part of a minority means having to be constantly in fear that anything you like will be co-opted or beneficial to our oppressors. It's the same reason that some fans of magical girl anime have a strong distaste for the recent trend in "dark" magical girl series - it's distorting one of the few power fantasies that women are allowed so that men can get off to some torture porn. In retrospect we can say the reactions were misguided, but that page along without the context of the next year of comics in the middle of such a distressing time for minorities was in poor taste.
Thank you, this is exactly what was thinking but couldn't find the words for. It feels incredibly dismissive to handwave away people's concerns at the time. Those parts of the video really put a bad taste in my mouth.
"People who only watch the movies will be confused to find sam wilson as captain america as steve rodgers has by this point turned into an old man" haha that aged poorly
I worked in a comic store while this was happening and I picked up absolutely every tie in. I loved this event probably more then anything that's happened in Marvel since House of M. But maybe I just have a weird taste is comic events. I think The King Pin, Doc Strange, and Spiderwoman was my favorite team up. This whole story is just so gooooood
As someone who doesn't really have the money or time (okay, mostly just the money) to read all these comics, but who enjoys comics and their intricate stories, I really like videos like this, and channels like NerdSync, that lay out all these stories and histories in a condensed way. I'd heard about the Secret Empire story and the backlash against Cap turning out to be Hydra, and also that there was some monkey-business about changing history and all that, but I'm glad it turned out to be a much better story that it's detractors made it out to be.
Honestly, I'm surprised so many were so quick to get angry at the hail hydra twist thing meanwhile I, an admitted superhero comic casual, could tell from the start it reeked of hydra doing a brainwashing or temporal shenanigans. Like that's such a huge thing in comics, it even happened to Cap's boy bucky! Anyways great vid as per usual.
@@a.d.kuhlmann7299 oh I didn't know that bit, since technically it wasn't brainwashing but a reality warping thing they weren't lying, but that certainly allowed or even encouraged readers to assume it was legit
Dude, videos like this make me wish I had the time, or at least the patience and will (mostly those latter), to read Marvel comics...and grateful for folks like you who put the time into breaking these stories down, and analyzing them. This was fucking brilliant stuff, maybe the best thing you’ve made imo. When I’m able to, I definitely will throw some patreon money your way. I think everything you’ve produced so far deserves my money! (but I’m currently not working full time and I’m really struggling to get by) Peace! ✊🏽✊🏾✊🏼✊🏿❤️♾
I am not american so I don't have the patriotic vibe when it comes to captain america. But the problem as I see it is how they told the story and what the advertisement chose to use. For example they could have just said that there is more to the story when captain america said hail hydra but from what I saw the writer actually chose to insist that this was the real captain america and not some clone or anything. So basically he chose to say to people captain america was always a nazi and you missed it. Which is a very bad idea obviously. The writer didn't have to tell the story about kubik and what she did, he only had to let enough mystery and not saying anything definitive. Now secret empire was not a good event but that is a personal taste but also because it was clear and obvious that the ending was just a sloppy way to tide the mess they made with hydra cap. I mean marvel came out and said a cosmic cube will not fix anything and kubik who is an actual living cosmic cube fixed anything and when it comes to hydra cap they stated that the captain america of old will return at the end of the event prior to the event coming out. So basically they pissed off everyone. The ones who wanted to see this new direction for captain america because they didn't really commit to it. And the ones who never liked this direction and who were told it was the real captain america and it was all a lie in the end because hydra cap wasn't the real captain america. So basically it was more on how they chose to promote their story and how they wrote it from the beginning to end. And of course it was a horrible decision to not make this story as a what if or an alternate earth story and just say no it was the canon captain america who is a nazi.
Linkara's review on Secret Empire touched on this as well. For all the stuff about the second Steve Rodgers (aka Stevil) in the book, all the marketing going on about proper Steve Rodgers being the actual guy and all that coming out never alludes to what's actually in the book, and considering the shifting of stuff happens halfway does scream of rewrite. Punisher being part of the bad guys (tempted by the bad guys claiming to bring back his family somehow) may be potent political commentary but inworld does him soddin' dirty too. The book has problems with things beyond the standard issues with event comics and having this contention around it doesn't help matters.
I had to come back to bring this up. This video has been in my head for weeks. I seriously think about it every couple days and it's spurred a renewed interest in comics for me. I hadn't been reading comics much the last 5 years and lately I have been. Thanks!
And I can only speak as a die hard captain america fanatic. And I LOVED Secret Empire. I'm not ashamed of it cause it was a great story for the points you just mentioned. Especially about this being more about the evils of a fascist. And while this did leave a scar on caps legacy, it just shows how impactful this story became. I mean, 30 years from now, I dont think we will remember saving people from a damn, or saving a county fair. But we will always remember the events of hydra cap
i would say even the first issue of the steve rogers captain america series, by nick spencer, is really prophetic on how people become radicalized. which is really sad that this story that came out in 2016, is still true to this day.
Jose, Thank you! I'm so tired of those angdy dudes, shouting in their titles and thumb Nails "Secret Empire Sux!" "SJW Marvel gets rekt!" etc. It's the first Time I came across well-thought, detailed and entertaining analisys of this event, and not some butt-hurt rant about not agreeing with someone's Worldview and constantly making fun of different political option. These people love to complain about #NotMyCaptain, but behave exactly like his potential followers...
That was fantastic. I sat down this evening, thinking I'll just do 20 minutes tonight, watched it all. I'm not particularly interested in superhero comics but I was hooked. Way to summarise a complex thing in a succinct and interesting way whilst covering so many points that it's making. I'm blown away by the comic and this video :)
Very well thought out video. I was one of the people who went into SE cold, read the first issue or two and got turned off so hard by it. But the context of the lead-up and tie-ins really helps. If anything, it goes to show how inherently weird it is that Marvel's big events (Secret Wars by Jonathan Hickman comes to mind) really don't work if you take them as the standalone, popcorn events they're advertised as. tl;dr maybe I was too harsh on Nick Spencer
thank you for this video!!!! no one goes indepth with these ideas on youtube. im so glad this video exist cus all the others ones who hated this over simplified the event and hated it because "tHe SjWs"
Yeah, he is alive in the MCU as a symbol for the U. S. military, he can commit literally international crimes and come out scott free with a happy ending, because the U. S. still believes in exepcionalism and Steve Rogers doesn't deserve any kind of accountability for his actions.
@@IkeOkerekeNews In Civil War he become a renegade agent of the U. S. forces, he was literally a wanted criminal, but in every movie since Civil War he was always portrayed as heroic, and hell, he even held the fucking Mjolnir. He was a wanted criminal, and get a happy fucking ending, no accountability whatsoever.
@@TheKeyser94 What movie did you even watch? In Civil War, he gives up the shield, recuses his friends from the Raft, and goes into hiding in Wakanda. Steve hasn't been apart of the U.S. military in the MCU, since WW2.
@@IkeOkerekeNews Yeah, that was pretty clear in Winter Soldier that he isn't part of the military. When he does secret operations for SHIELD, and is accountable to U. S. laws and international laws. Of course he is a fucking soldier of the U. S.
@@TheKeyser94 no he isn't, he's literally viewed as a war criminal and is being hunted down. He hasn't been a part of the Army since he went in the ice. In Winter Soldier he's doing their dirty work because SHIELD and Hydra were behind it all plus they weren't relegated to the government per se
Fascinating video, great critique of fascism and nationalism. Wish I had picked this issue up when the buzz started hitting the internet back in 2017 but sadly that turned me away then.
"...comic books are really about making money, and expecting fans to pay a lot of it.." This sentence sums up my biggest gripe about the initial storyline in particular, and the attitude of comic book writers in general. When One More Day happened, the response fans got from Marvel is that Spider-Man is their property, and they, as writers, have the right to take the character in whatever direction they so choose. In short, "We don't owe you anything." And you know what?? That's absolutely true. You know what else is absolutely true? The reverse. We, the fans, don't owe them, the creators, anything either. So, when Nick Spencer's only response to the whole "Cap has been a Hydra agent" reveal was "Keep reading," I honestly felt insulted. Why should I keep rewarding this company for continually making me angry? And this has kinda been going on for the past several years. I have long-since decided that this was my time to bow out as a fan, and maybe hope that one day, superhero comics will course-correct. Looking at this overview, now, I kinda get whet Nick Spencer was trying to do; it was just marketed in the worst way possible. "Hey, kids! We're going to take this thing you love, and turn it into something you hate! And this is how it's going to be from here on out! Give us money!" Now, with the benefit of hindsight, and this overview, I think I might be willing to give this story a chance.
your longer form video work is getting really excellent. your script writing is getting tighter and your theses more concise. keep up the ever-better work, my dude.
I loved Secret Empire. Pretty much anyone outside of the US realized what the writers were doing, but Americans can't see to see pass the symbolism, which I guess, is the point.
the really interesting thing about nick spencer's run on captain america, is that there are 2 types of symbols to give "hope" to people. one type is for the bad actors that use symbols to manipulate others for their own means; the second type is to use it for the actual heroic means to help others.
This was amazing - thank you! I’ve always wanted to learn more about this arc and only knew the famous Hail Hydra panel. It sounds like a great one to add to my book shelf. Thanks again!
Interesting take, but I have to say as one of those angry guys, I"m still upset about this run. Clearly, you found more in it, but by making Cap the problem it read like ceeding a symbol that helped lead real-world American into WW2 to the nazis. It feels like a slap in the face. I think you have a point to the story and the themes, but what you skipped over was the marketing, the positioning and how this just hurt when many comics readers needed something staunchly anti-facsicst at the time. I'll be thinking more on this, and as comprehensive as your video was I know to my view it missed a lot.
That first Captain America comic (the one where he says "hail hydra") was the comic that got me into reading comics. I read pretty much all of the comics you detailed here, but you have given me a newfound appreciation for the potential scope with which this particular medium can speak to its audience. Excellent video, sir.
The right does this a lot I’ve noticed. They don’t care about something to the point they don’t even know it exists, then when the “””radical””” left changes a character’s race, removes a statue or writes a story like this suddenly they all come out of the woodwork to make their stand.
While I did not like Secret Empire it wasn’t because of Hydra Cap. It was because overall I found the actual event itself lacking. Things would be brought up and then dropped, the pacing of the book was inconsistent and I thought the art poorly suited for an event comic. I agreed with the books politics and saw what it was trying to say, how it said it just didn’t connect with me.
Great take and style that got me to give an overlooked series a second look. I'm not a collector anymore, but I still like to keep somewhat updated on what is going on in my old favorite comics, and this helps so much.
Whoa, that got in-depth. Thank goodness you were able to get all those cool people to do the voices, otherwise this would have maybe been a slog. I kind of hope someone does a retrospective on Ta-Nehisi Coates' run when it's over. Good video.
@@IkeOkerekeNews It doesn't "matter", I just think its funny that a bunch of Comicsgate guys told everyone how Spencer was some kind of super SJW lefty when he's pretty Centrist and who's hottest take is that Nazi's are bad. I like Spencer though. His Spidey stuff is good.
Speaking of Border Issues in Comics, there was a great feature in Avengers Spotlight with US Agent going after a rogue border agent who was killing crossers.
I found it appropriate that the Punisher willingly chose to side with Hydra. Safe to assume law enforcement officers that wear his symbol would happily do the same.
Wow, I remember when this came out, and all I heard was "they turned Cap into a nazi and it suuuucks >:(". After watching this, it honestly seems like some of the best and most nuanced storytelling in Marvel history. People were so blatantly ignoring everything but a surface level reading of it, and that's what sucks :/
Damn. Sometimes you just happen to say the right thing that I needed to hear. I've been grappling with the idea of the United States and what we really stand for, and what we should try to strive for as a country and society. At times I lost hope. But remembering that it's not always about were we have come from, but what we should and can potentially accomplish in the future. Essentially the ideals of what America was supposed to be. It's help give me hope, and hope is one of the most powerful motivators as humans. We can't give up.
Anyone who knows Cap knew the heel turn was a story beat, and he'd be back to normal soon enough. Hell... Cap is known for dealing with reality altering bad guys, so it really shouldn't have been a problem for readers to see. Secret Wars 1 and 2 were not terrible. They were actually pretty creative for what they were, and served as a way to introduce characters to readers who normally wouldn't read them. Just like Cap being back to normal after going evil, we knew that Sam filling in for him would be only temporary too. Hydra Cap, Hydra Supreme, whatever you wanna call him.... Libertarian. Hank Pym didn't just slap the Wasp, he was abusive many times, in many ways. Damn it, Scott... I didn't know he was the spy. The Punisher being a Hydra enforcer for Cap makes sense. He is one of my two favourite characters, but he was never a "good guy". He's a killer, a murderer. He is what happens when trying to do good goes wrong. He's death. . . This review, essay, whatever you call it, it was spot on. You did great work, as usual. This story had a lot of work put into it, it had a build up that worked to make it really an epic tale. I actually followed a few parts, but the story was spread out over far too many issues for me to keep up with. You are right. Marvel loves money. Thanks for this. You did great work.
People hated the comic without reading it. People simply didn’t read any of it and just hated on it by what they heard online. If people actually read it, they’d know that the Captain America that was a Hydra agent was an alternative version that was displaced to 616, and not our All American made Captain America that we’ve loved forever. Also, if people complain about comics being political, they obviously don’t read them. They have always been political and always will be.
I was so happy to see this video in my suggestions. I adored the secret empire comic, and I got so frustrated arguing with people about it. Especially when those people never read any of the books and make blanketed statements based on small pieces of knowledge.
Even with depression having reached the downright baffling point where I can't even work up the will to consume media and have no human contact or prospects thereof, what a relative comfort to have hundreds of hours of videos of people talking about things I'm theoretically interested in, like a surrogate inner monologue to pass the time vicariously while protecting me from the solipsistic oppression of having to think my own horrible thoughts.
A slight correction, in my credits I listed some guy named Alex of The Serfs when I meant to write Dave of The Serfs. There is no Alex.
Here's a full castlist:
Ali - Rayshaun/Patriot
Ariana - Sharon Carter
Dave of The Serfs - Sam Wilson/Captain America
Eric - Dr. Strange
JackSaint - Thor
Jangles Sciencelad - Red Skull and Hawkeye
Kathrin - Maria Hill
Lance of The Serfs - Steve Rogers/Captain America
Lexi - Emma Frost
Mexie - Black Widow
Naima - Captain Marvel and Kobik
NerdSync - Rocket Raccoon and Monster Guy 1
T1J - Miles Morales/Spider-Man
Timbah - Kobra
Tristan - Ant-Man
Vadim - Supreme Serpent
Yeah Nah - Boomerang
And I did the following voices - Hank Pym, Tony Stark, Peter Parker/Spider-Man, Beast, Border-Crossing Guy, Moustache Guy, Diner Guy, and Monster Guy 2
José holy shit T1J as Miles is perfect!!
So when are you starting your comic book Channel
Can you do an analysis on Doctor Doom and whether you consider him a fascist? Jugde Dredd is a satire on Fascism
Vadim amazing as always
Really cool that Lance AND Dave from TheSerfsTV both played Cap, and Timbah doing Kobra? This is just hitting all of my progressive pressure points.
“Sam Wilson is a black man. ...and sometimes a werewolf, but mostly a black man.” Comic books are so good you guys.
razieldumas they really are though
Agreed
They are the absolute best
@@UA-camChannel-dk5xv My biggest recommendation is to not worry at all about continuity starting out. If I can recommend, go into a store and just ask the staff what they would recommend (may be helpful to have an idea beforehand but not strictly necessary) or just look for a recent new storyline or #1 and go with it. Alternatively, I believe marvel has a netflix like subscription service to read their comics and DC has a similar service (I think DCs is less comics focused and more focused on the extended media around comics such as cartoons and movies based on them but I think it still has comics).
Pretty sure everyone in the Marvel universe has been a Werewolf at some point. Also a vampire, and a zombie.
facsh steve picking up the hammer is pretty fitting considering how a lot of fascists like to corrupt norse symbols for their own bs
☝️👆⬆️
Especially the corruption part of it since Captain Fascism is cheating to be able to pick it up.
@Ivan Ivanovich Ivanovosky dogs have fur so everything with fur must be a dog.
@Ivan Ivanovich Ivanovosky whiteness as a racial category didn't exist when the norse existed.
So no, they weren't white, anymore than Bach wrote hiphop.
@Ivan Ivanovich Ivanovosky what was that? An attempt at saying "we were" in old norse? If so you failed. Just sayin.
But no, "we" weren't. And also, the norse don't exist anymore. Saying norse people were "white" is as ahistorical as saying Brittish people today are romans because at another point in history people sharing some traits with them were roman.
"White people" are a sociopolitical category, not a description of color. Because we aren't the color white, we are some mix of pink and beige hues. And it's a relatively modern category that emerged in the 17th century as part of the chattel slave trade. I recommed the paper "White Caesar, Black Odysseus: When did 'white people' become 'white?", by James H. Dee.
"Why is this political youtuber talking about a comic book?"
-Me, a fool from an hour and a half ago
I'm a big fan of both comics, and left wing politics. When I noticed this video, I squealed like an excited Bobby Hill.
@@rhettblood4403 When I finally finish with school and have some more free time and money (or at least money when I get a job), I plan on starting with super-hero comics. I've been watching linkara and comic Drake for years (linkara since almost his very beginning, before the end of his first year) and watched comicstorian for awhile. I'm really interested but just feel I need some more time and money before I jump in.
@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat if you're into dc stuff they have a streaming service that offers a bunch of new and old comics for only 8 dollars a month as well as some TV shows and movies
@@rhettblood4403 same
I'm in this comment and ... I'm ambivalent about it, if I'm being drunkenly honest.
Listening to a guy on Fox News stumble over explaining that a comic book superhero isn't white: priceless
From a modern day political perspective, this is the only time a plot as insane as Secret Empire could happen AND be taken seriously, rather than comic booky absurdism
Exactly.
Unfortunately, it IS happening. ALL the time.
Its kinda funny that people say they don't want politics in their comments when there's litterally Nazis and a Guy called CAPTIAN AMERICA
And that's of course because it's not that people don't want politics in comics people dont want politics that differ from their own in comics. How dare anyone put their own thoughts and opinions in their art
That's a misinterpretation of the complaint, what people don't want in their comics and indeed in media in general is political correctness specifically, regardless of alignment.
@@superapm9620 for some im sure you're correct. One of the problems with "political correctness" is its subjective. I may find something increadibly in appropriate and offensive, while another person says im just looking for political correctness. I will admit that there are many things people find as offensive that i don't understand but who am i to determine what offends them?
to me its simple. be reasonable. this is for all involved. ultimately however understand that you can not control other individuals and their rights to speach. Just like you can't control people's rights to object to your speech.
@@williamjones7751 I know for sure i am not political correct for i am a SJW anarchist and what ever i try to say they try to silent me and heck I get death treats for my political belief , heck it is more ok to be Nazi here in Sweden then be an anarchist. Political correctness is what mainstream accept as political views and if you go outside those perimeters you face consequences, some times they are justified as you are vile bigot or fucking stupid, but it could be that you challenge the status quo. Example on a bigot is Pastor Anderson who think you shall kill all gays, example on stupid/crazy ppl are flat earthers and creationists and an example on those who challenge status quo is socialists and anarchists who think the system should work differently and challenge the economics and politics of the mainstream.
@@Gripen1974 by "political correctness" they dont mean "cowtowing to mainstream ideological parameters", they mean "minorities"
Playing the Supreme Serpent is the highlight of my youtube career. Thankyou.
I think you really captured the evil energy as well. Great job!
@Sam Snapp LOOOL, yes, I got time for good behavior.
You’re my Supreme Serpent. No voice will ever surpass yours. ❤️
Nice channeling of Cobra Commander there.
"Consider this your trigger warning"
* throws a grenade *
nice meme
Think fast chucklenuts
Was really hard going method on this one and having to play an imperial fascist for a year. Amazin work Jose!
Sam Wilson Cap and Steve Rogers Cap were played by the different halves of the same podcast...lovely little symbolic nod, Jose. Adored the video.
Wait what lmao
Wait... Was Lance doing the voiceover for Steve???
"People will never see Steve Rogers the same way again"
until writers start forgetting, like a year after give or take, like Iron Man being a US pressident.
Yeah, that's the reason why i struggles with super heroes comics :/
There's some really good stuff, like we saw here, but the fact that the story can never have a proper ending makes that some later stories may undermind the meaning of the older ones :/
I think a long running series as Doctor Who can have similar problems
But wasn't the problem how easy it was to take those images out of context
And how alt right 4 chan is definitely going to do that
Captain America was a werewolf, Tony Stark has died twice in the last 8 years, Peter Parker was a clone, and then he wasn't, the Hulk was dead, then dead again, then dead again and then he can't die.
People complaining about shakeups in the status quo don't really seem to get that everything is temporary (mostly because they keep complaining whenever something changes)
@@AlbinoTuxedo The Immortal Hulk was actually a great moment, I object. The Immortal Hulk is fucking awesome.
@@firetarrasque4667 Immortal Hulk is easily top three Hulk runs and it isn't even over yet.
Great Work, really well done Analysis.
The one thing that I think you missed, perhaps intentionally, was that some of the blowback against Secret Empire was less superficial than simple hurt over the tarnishing of a symbol.
A great many of the voices knew full well that Trumpism and the alt right, which at the time were still almost indistinguishable from the general anti-SJW/anti-diversity movement seen on UA-cam and other social media, were being challenged by this story. Effectively they felt that they were being called out as Nazi's. And while you acknowledge that Nazism isn't the same as modern American Fascism, the message was definitely for them.
This was amazing!! Thank you for taking the time to make such a long video and go into such depth! And thank you for asking me to be part of it for one of the voices! Excited to see your channel grow even more!
Two things stood out in my mind as the vid wrapped up: 1, you're absolutely right that the discussion of whether or not that image of Steve Rogers saying "Hail Hydra" cedes the character to the fascists is only a surface-level reading of Captain America as a symbol and that got me thinking, "Fascists would LOVE it if all people thought about this was that Captain America is now one of them, fascism runs entirely on surface-level presentation." They traffic in illusions of strength, illusions of terror and illusions of the past, and looking past that facade, facing the uncomfortable contexts and realities is what stops fascism, exposing their lies for what they are. 2, as some people back when this was still the hot controversy likely pointed out, Fascist Steve Rogers' big reveal was at THE BEGINNING of Secret Empire, meaning that dealing with his evil would likely be HOW this arc ultimately resolved. Hydra Steve is not Secret Empire's PROTAGONIST. He is being fought AGAINST for the majority of the plot. As Neil Gaiman famously wrote, paraphrasing G.K. Chesterton: " Fairy tales are more than true - not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten." Secret Empire, likewise, shows not just that fascism is there, but that it's beatable.
And kids will understand that when they read it
And that cover won't be taken out of context by "alt righters"
Sure just make it easy for them, whatever. Shouldn't have been a light novel or original story instead
I'm repeatedly impressed by your ability to make super long videos and still have excellent pacing. This was over an hour and a half and I wasn't bored at all.
Lol, the Tucker Carlson clip is basically him admitting he's a fascist.
FUCK TUCK
Aren't most Tucker clips just that?
Tracker Carrolston needs to eat a bowl of our delicious shit
fascists are willing to pay him the most and he sells that mouth more feverishly than the most hardworking prostitute
@@TheKonamiMan No but MSNBC is.
Ah, "It Can't Happen Here". That's a good one.
Never read a marvel comic in my life but damn was this interesting
literally garbage let this video be a gateway into them. Absolutely great stuff over at marvel comics.
I needed a trigger warning for calling Venom overrated. But... I think I'm going to buckle down and keep watching.
Yeah that..... that pissed me off more then I care to really say.
Especially with the new venom comics and the symbiote god
that was so good man. the depth of comics always surprises me, as a dude who never reads them i love videos on this subject.
thanks for getting me on board.
vadims bit had me in stitches
You're swiftly becoming one of my favorites. Thank you for making such quality content!
I didn't hear about literally any of this when the discussions about it were taking place. Really goes to show how using one little bit and some framing can totally change around the meaning of something
Most of the discussions took place when literally the only thing anyone had seen of it was the single panel of Steve Rogers saying "Hail Hydra."
@@stuartsmith4369 Yep, people should look at the entire story in context with the analysis it needs before condemning all of the staff behind the story as bad people.
@@electricmastro and kids would get that
Its just insane to me that people didn't realize that it was obviously going to lead to an anti fascist messge in the end. Everyone was acting like this was so stupid and horrible without thinking once "hmmm maybe that's the fucking point? 🤔" I mean like, good god guys didya think it would end with them advocating it when the scene is clearly presented as an "oh shit that's not good" moment? People fucking floor me man. Conservatives especially. Its like they know we all think Hitler is bad but yet they don't see how the same kind of fear mongering has lead to their way of thinking and evolves slowely but surely into something that targets groups as the cause of all their problems and tries to kill them.
Great work! And the voice actors did a fantastic job, too. I especially want to call out the woman who voiced the Captain Marvel monologue. That delivery was so so good.
That part where you showed Carol genuinely remorseful over actions in Civil War II proved something to me. A year before I starting comic collecting, I was told marvel made captain marvel an authoritarian whose actions are never challenged or condemned by the story and goes unacknowledged by anyone else after that story. She never takes accountability for being an authoritarian and expects everyone to forgive her. They also made Karen jokes because of the haircu because these were dude bros. Anyways, the general vibe I got was that I should avoid Captain marvel comics, or at the very least, don’t buy books with her in them. (which I did ignore because the current avengers run has her as a main player and that was one of the first few books I picked up).
Again, this is what the internet told me. However, They failed to mention the Secret Empire panel that you showed where Carol was talking to Quasar, where she not only takes accountability for her actions in Civil War II, but explains why she felt why those actions were right (which she admits were definitely selfish reasons and that aren’t justifiable) which kinda adds a whole new layer to her character IMO. Anyways, it proved to me that once comic fans hate something (particularly women), you can’t change their minds and they’ll ignore evidence to the contrary of their thesis.
That aside, fantastic video José. I kinda wish more lefttubers would analyze the politics of media, especially comics.
I was thinking the same thing
I’m already exhausted that Sam will be MCU Cap, Racists are already gearing up
Unfortunately it's already happening, their feelings are so destroyed because him and Valkyrie are the new leaders
Yeah cause bucky was the guy who got the torch passed to him first, not falcon
@@ravenwhiteduck3158 what part of this version of Bucky doesn't want that kind of burden being placed on him do you not understand? Plus, he's seen as a terrorist by the majority of the world, you can't expect regular people to just let go of what he did during his time as the Winter Soldier, this isn't the comics. Stop crying
Don't exhaust yourself over those you have no control over. That said, heroes should always be around to defeat them.
@@alonsoarana5307 what do you think will happen now that black panther has passed? Think Bucky will be the new bp?
This video scares me in a way I can't explain. A symbol that I've always tied to freedom and goodness, converted into a symbol of hatred and bigotry terrifies me. I am not a minority, but I worry for those who are of fascism becomes more accepted.
Most people who are not familiar with the internet do not even know this is a thing! They don't understand how people with well-meaning beliefs can fall down a hole of hatred.
My grandparents are worried about socialism and government aid, while this should be their concern.
Yep, a scary thing that happened for the sake of seeing an interesting and compelling deconstruction of a character that, however much one values, is pretty clearly meant to be anti-Nazist/anti-fascist, and playing with that perception, responsibly anyway, can make things more interesting. Indeed, not all lunatics wear swastikas, and those who seek to hurt others more and more aren't always quickly identifiable and come out anywhere at any time.
People think I'm a conspiracy theorist when I tell them shit I've witnessed.
At this point I'm just holding out for an AI wife
This was so good...I was shocked by how people just couldn't see what Spencer was doing while this run was happening...it's like they literally thought he turned Cap into a Nazi because he was pro-fascism or something. They couldn't see the deeper meaning and messages buried in the series.
Sent here from Creationist Cat. Watched the whole 1 and a half hours and it was time well spent. THIS WAS AMAZING POLITICAL AND COMIC BOOK CONTENT.
this was a really excellent video, and completely changed my view on this comic. i was dumb and went with the general revile towards it instead of reading it for myself. i really hope this comic gains a much better reputation with people like you doing such excellent analysis on it. thank you for this, really! would love to keep seeing longer form videos from you in the future, if youve got them in you.
Cap turning into a werewolf just made him more attractive. Admit, it you cowards
I've wanted someone to make this video for ages, as someone who is leftwing and loves comics I thought this storyline was an amazing and extremely critical of not just fascism but Americas, I think the story line fell victim to click bate journalism, I don't blame them entirely state of online journalism due to adblock has just made it awful.
I like your points but what grates me is the whole premise that hydra!Steve would never question the fascist upbringing. This is determist viewpoint that's dark and it’s not undone by realistic means but by magic. I feel like the allegory here kills the message
Man, this comic series was so divisive; I personally love it though. And I'm glad to find other people who understand it the way I do.
The only valid criticism (so aside from people who totally did not get it) I heard on this comic series, was that it was too long. I understand that because it's 12 issues of the situation getting worse and worse until the end. But I read it in collected edition, so it was just a blast.
Thank you for making this video. I hope that it changes the opinion of at least one person who did not like it.
This was such an amazingly fascinating and in depth dissection of a story I'd never read and never figured would've been more than the hype that surrounded it when I'd catch wind of it via passing headlines. Thank you for this. You're spot on in your connections too. The moment you'd say or drop an idea, the immediate real world equivalent would more often than not be the same one you'd then present. Its encouraging to see when others understand the same situations and real world issues as they're happening and why right now is such a turbulent era that history will look back upon in wonder.
I wish you nothing but success in the roads you travel and the stories you weave for us, the audience. Thank you
Dude. This is quite honestly the most intelligent and thought-provoking piece of video I've seen and it's brilliant. Finally someone actually gets it. Secret Empire has been great because of how bold and engaging it is
FYI: You didn't mention "Captain America Reborn" with Steve then in the body of Red Skull, which was converted to look like Steve. And that AI Tony was suppose to be regular Tony, but that changed after what Bendis did in Civil War 2
THIS IS A MASTERPIECE. loved being part of it, thank you!
mexie! love your work
So will LeftTube Comic Book Theater become a regular thing
Because this should be a thing
Yeah it should be. The only views outside of big comic guys are views leaning right. just wanted to know what about marvel comics are actually bad at objective levels, or just right wing butt hurt.
Thicccc video, so love the proper time being given to this story for the first time. Thank you! ❤
Did Jose just become my favorite youtuber? I think yes
I was kind of on the no thanks train back when the hail hydra thing happened, but I really shouldve waited for context I guess. Seems Spencer is no remender
11:23
The Cobra Commander would never do this. I'm shaking and crying rn.
.........I got to say buddy. I am too bamboozled.
love your name and profile pic my dude
So basically anti sjw’s got triggered af and didn’t bother to have any critical reading of the comic.
Some things never change
Moreover, the vast majority likely did not read the comic. They just saw Captain America saying hail Hydra without any context that's all that was focused on.
@@CrossKnights you dont even need to read it everyone should know this is comic books. when a character turns evil theres always a convoluted explanation
Any have any thoughts on justsomeguy? He actually reads the comics and isn't really focused on the politic unless there's not much else with the comic or is genuinely flawed.
@@CrossKnights I don't think most people who get mad at stuff read comics, or if they do they don't understand them. Comics have always done things to shake up the status quo, and they almost always go back to normal after awhile. Did people really think Steve was going to stay a fascist? Did people really think Jane would stay the main Thor? (not to mention in the context of that series it was apart of an even bigger story to grow Thor)
People recently got mad at Steve questioning the "American dream", and like have you not read a Cap comic in decades? Have they ever read any comic ever? They've always been left leaning and always included politics.
there are statues to the memory of Custer all over the USA and they whine about Cap being a Hydra agent for an event comic. 'Murica for you.
Whose Custer?
@@IkeOkerekeNews General Custer was the guy who'd lead the Black Hills Expeditions, culminating in The Battle of the Little Bighorn, where he'd lead a company of 208 officers (584 if you count the other groups on his side) against a group of Plains Indians somewhere between 1,000 and 5,000 (though it's usually around 1,000 and-1,800). He and all his men died.
He's essentially a guy whose loss was so great, it's essentially a "Remember the Alamo" moment of American History.
Yeah, it's usually referred to as Custer's Last Stand
@@jequirity1 Just don't play "Custer's Revenge" if you value your sanity...
I would argue that after watching your video secret empire is a much better depiction of how dictatorships actually happen than 1984 ever was
imo this comic is a fascist government that could still be overthrown. 1954 depicts a totalitarian government that has taken root so deeply it could never be unseated. so it seems a little unbelievable/extreme, but that's simply an example of where the ideology might lead
No one ever said comics were subtle
The "METAL GEAR is apolitical" audience don't appreciate, or get, subtlety.
How something that features Captain America punching Hitler can be seen as Subtle boggles my mind
@@TupocalypseShakur -
*BuT tHaT’S ViRTuE sIGnalLiNg!*
Secret Wars was great, you bad bird, it had fun action, some great moments and a nice examination of ultimate power and what it would mean to mortal people.
Come on, it has the moment where the Hulk carries an entire mountain, with probably the best comic cover ever.
I was wondering why you were taking so long to make a video.
Totally worth the wait. A great video.
Good video, I do appreciate the story now. However, it seems disingenuous to say that people who didn't like the Hail Hydra reveal are susceptible to fascism.
The majority of people I remember being upset by that were minorities - especially Jews, who were particularly upset that a character by two Jewish men to tell kids that Hitler is evil was poisoned as a secret anti-Semite. Being part of a minority means having to be constantly in fear that anything you like will be co-opted or beneficial to our oppressors. It's the same reason that some fans of magical girl anime have a strong distaste for the recent trend in "dark" magical girl series - it's distorting one of the few power fantasies that women are allowed so that men can get off to some torture porn.
In retrospect we can say the reactions were misguided, but that page along without the context of the next year of comics in the middle of such a distressing time for minorities was in poor taste.
Thank you, this is exactly what was thinking but couldn't find the words for. It feels incredibly dismissive to handwave away people's concerns at the time. Those parts of the video really put a bad taste in my mouth.
Can I ask what the recent trend "dark" magical girl series are/is?
"People who only watch the movies will be confused to find sam wilson as captain america as steve rodgers has by this point turned into an old man" haha that aged poorly
So true! I totally forgot about that line.
I worked in a comic store while this was happening and I picked up absolutely every tie in. I loved this event probably more then anything that's happened in Marvel since House of M. But maybe I just have a weird taste is comic events. I think The King Pin, Doc Strange, and Spiderwoman was my favorite team up. This whole story is just so gooooood
As someone who doesn't really have the money or time (okay, mostly just the money) to read all these comics, but who enjoys comics and their intricate stories, I really like videos like this, and channels like NerdSync, that lay out all these stories and histories in a condensed way. I'd heard about the Secret Empire story and the backlash against Cap turning out to be Hydra, and also that there was some monkey-business about changing history and all that, but I'm glad it turned out to be a much better story that it's detractors made it out to be.
Honestly, I'm surprised so many were so quick to get angry at the hail hydra twist thing meanwhile I, an admitted superhero comic casual, could tell from the start it reeked of hydra doing a brainwashing or temporal shenanigans. Like that's such a huge thing in comics, it even happened to Cap's boy bucky!
Anyways great vid as per usual.
Part of the reason people got angry was because the writers insisted that it wasn't brainwashing at the start, to be fair.
@@a.d.kuhlmann7299 oh I didn't know that bit, since technically it wasn't brainwashing but a reality warping thing they weren't lying, but that certainly allowed or even encouraged readers to assume it was legit
Dude, videos like this make me wish I had the time, or at least the patience and will (mostly those latter), to read Marvel comics...and grateful for folks like you who put the time into breaking these stories down, and analyzing them.
This was fucking brilliant stuff, maybe the best thing you’ve made imo. When I’m able to, I definitely will throw some patreon money your way. I think everything you’ve produced so far deserves my money! (but I’m currently not working full time and I’m really struggling to get by) Peace!
✊🏽✊🏾✊🏼✊🏿❤️♾
I am not american so I don't have the patriotic vibe when it comes to captain america. But the problem as I see it is how they told the story and what the advertisement chose to use. For example they could have just said that there is more to the story when captain america said hail hydra but from what I saw the writer actually chose to insist that this was the real captain america and not some clone or anything. So basically he chose to say to people captain america was always a nazi and you missed it. Which is a very bad idea obviously. The writer didn't have to tell the story about kubik and what she did, he only had to let enough mystery and not saying anything definitive. Now secret empire was not a good event but that is a personal taste but also because it was clear and obvious that the ending was just a sloppy way to tide the mess they made with hydra cap. I mean marvel came out and said a cosmic cube will not fix anything and kubik who is an actual living cosmic cube fixed anything and when it comes to hydra cap they stated that the captain america of old will return at the end of the event prior to the event coming out. So basically they pissed off everyone. The ones who wanted to see this new direction for captain america because they didn't really commit to it. And the ones who never liked this direction and who were told it was the real captain america and it was all a lie in the end because hydra cap wasn't the real captain america. So basically it was more on how they chose to promote their story and how they wrote it from the beginning to end. And of course it was a horrible decision to not make this story as a what if or an alternate earth story and just say no it was the canon captain america who is a nazi.
Linkara's review on Secret Empire touched on this as well. For all the stuff about the second Steve Rodgers (aka Stevil) in the book, all the marketing going on about proper Steve Rodgers being the actual guy and all that coming out never alludes to what's actually in the book, and considering the shifting of stuff happens halfway does scream of rewrite. Punisher being part of the bad guys (tempted by the bad guys claiming to bring back his family somehow) may be potent political commentary but inworld does him soddin' dirty too. The book has problems with things beyond the standard issues with event comics and having this contention around it doesn't help matters.
I had to come back to bring this up. This video has been in my head for weeks. I seriously think about it every couple days and it's spurred a renewed interest in comics for me. I hadn't been reading comics much the last 5 years and lately I have been. Thanks!
And I can only speak as a die hard captain america fanatic. And I LOVED Secret Empire. I'm not ashamed of it cause it was a great story for the points you just mentioned. Especially about this being more about the evils of a fascist.
And while this did leave a scar on caps legacy, it just shows how impactful this story became. I mean, 30 years from now, I dont think we will remember saving people from a damn, or saving a county fair. But we will always remember the events of hydra cap
i would say even the first issue of the steve rogers captain america series, by nick spencer, is really prophetic on how people become radicalized. which is really sad that this story that came out in 2016, is still true to this day.
Jose, Thank you!
I'm so tired of those angdy dudes, shouting in their titles and thumb Nails "Secret Empire Sux!" "SJW Marvel gets rekt!" etc.
It's the first Time I came across well-thought, detailed and entertaining analisys of this event, and not some butt-hurt rant about not agreeing with someone's Worldview and constantly making fun of different political option.
These people love to complain about #NotMyCaptain, but behave exactly like his potential followers...
That was fantastic.
I sat down this evening, thinking I'll just do 20 minutes tonight, watched it all.
I'm not particularly interested in superhero comics but I was hooked. Way to summarise a complex thing in a succinct and interesting way whilst covering so many points that it's making.
I'm blown away by the comic and this video :)
Very well thought out video. I was one of the people who went into SE cold, read the first issue or two and got turned off so hard by it. But the context of the lead-up and tie-ins really helps.
If anything, it goes to show how inherently weird it is that Marvel's big events (Secret Wars by Jonathan Hickman comes to mind) really don't work if you take them as the standalone, popcorn events they're advertised as.
tl;dr maybe I was too harsh on Nick Spencer
The amount of context comics need is insane. But you did a great job presenting it.
I love how the speech of Black Widow to Miles is the exact opposite of DC's masterpiece Kingdom Come, but Miles seems to have read it ;)
Absolutely fantastic video! Brilliant on many levels, and I will be sharing this to many people
thank you for this video!!!! no one goes indepth with these ideas on youtube. im so glad this video exist cus all the others ones who hated this over simplified the event and hated it because "tHe SjWs"
Yeah, he is alive in the MCU as a symbol for the U. S. military, he can commit literally international crimes and come out scott free with a happy ending, because the U. S. still believes in exepcionalism and Steve Rogers doesn't deserve any kind of accountability for his actions.
What?
@@IkeOkerekeNews In Civil War he become a renegade agent of the U. S. forces, he was literally a wanted criminal, but in every movie since Civil War he was always portrayed as heroic, and hell, he even held the fucking Mjolnir. He was a wanted criminal, and get a happy fucking ending, no accountability whatsoever.
@@TheKeyser94
What movie did you even watch? In Civil War, he gives up the shield, recuses his friends from the Raft, and goes into hiding in Wakanda. Steve hasn't been apart of the U.S. military in the MCU, since WW2.
@@IkeOkerekeNews Yeah, that was pretty clear in Winter Soldier that he isn't part of the military. When he does secret operations for SHIELD, and is accountable to U. S. laws and international laws. Of course he is a fucking soldier of the U. S.
@@TheKeyser94 no he isn't, he's literally viewed as a war criminal and is being hunted down. He hasn't been a part of the Army since he went in the ice. In Winter Soldier he's doing their dirty work because SHIELD and Hydra were behind it all plus they weren't relegated to the government per se
Fascinating video, great critique of fascism and nationalism. Wish I had picked this issue up when the buzz started hitting the internet back in 2017 but sadly that turned me away then.
"...comic books are really about making money, and expecting fans to pay a lot of it.."
This sentence sums up my biggest gripe about the initial storyline in particular, and the attitude of comic book writers in general. When One More Day happened, the response fans got from Marvel is that Spider-Man is their property, and they, as writers, have the right to take the character in whatever direction they so choose. In short, "We don't owe you anything." And you know what?? That's absolutely true.
You know what else is absolutely true?
The reverse.
We, the fans, don't owe them, the creators, anything either.
So, when Nick Spencer's only response to the whole "Cap has been a Hydra agent" reveal was "Keep reading," I honestly felt insulted. Why should I keep rewarding this company for continually making me angry? And this has kinda been going on for the past several years. I have long-since decided that this was my time to bow out as a fan, and maybe hope that one day, superhero comics will course-correct.
Looking at this overview, now, I kinda get whet Nick Spencer was trying to do; it was just marketed in the worst way possible. "Hey, kids! We're going to take this thing you love, and turn it into something you hate! And this is how it's going to be from here on out! Give us money!"
Now, with the benefit of hindsight, and this overview, I think I might be willing to give this story a chance.
Jose, can you do a comics series focusing on the left leaning policies of black panther
your longer form video work is getting really excellent. your script writing is getting tighter and your theses more concise. keep up the ever-better work, my dude.
I loved Secret Empire. Pretty much anyone outside of the US realized what the writers were doing, but Americans can't see to see pass the symbolism, which I guess, is the point.
the really interesting thing about nick spencer's run on captain america, is that there are 2 types of symbols to give "hope" to people. one type is for the bad actors that use symbols to manipulate others for their own means; the second type is to use it for the actual heroic means to help others.
This was amazing - thank you! I’ve always wanted to learn more about this arc and only knew the famous Hail Hydra panel. It sounds like a great one to add to my book shelf. Thanks again!
I've recently found your channel. Great content man. Your views really resonate with me. Please de more long length comic story analysis like this!
Interesting take, but I have to say as one of those angry guys, I"m still upset about this run. Clearly, you found more in it, but by making Cap the problem it read like ceeding a symbol that helped lead real-world American into WW2 to the nazis. It feels like a slap in the face.
I think you have a point to the story and the themes, but what you skipped over was the marketing, the positioning and how this just hurt when many comics readers needed something staunchly anti-facsicst at the time.
I'll be thinking more on this, and as comprehensive as your video was I know to my view it missed a lot.
That first Captain America comic (the one where he says "hail hydra") was the comic that got me into reading comics. I read pretty much all of the comics you detailed here, but you have given me a newfound appreciation for the potential scope with which this particular medium can speak to its audience. Excellent video, sir.
I always felt like most of the hate for this arch came from people who hadn't read it reacting to headlines
The right does this a lot I’ve noticed. They don’t care about something to the point they don’t even know it exists, then when the “””radical””” left changes a character’s race, removes a statue or writes a story like this suddenly they all come out of the woodwork to make their stand.
While I did not like Secret Empire it wasn’t because of Hydra Cap. It was because overall I found the actual event itself lacking. Things would be brought up and then dropped, the pacing of the book was inconsistent and I thought the art poorly suited for an event comic. I agreed with the books politics and saw what it was trying to say, how it said it just didn’t connect with me.
Great take and style that got me to give an overlooked series a second look. I'm not a collector anymore, but I still like to keep somewhat updated on what is going on in my old favorite comics, and this helps so much.
Man he really made Secret Empire sound way better than it was to live thru it's publishing.
Lots of great series only work when you can read them all at once, as opposed to issue-by-issue.
Whoa, that got in-depth. Thank goodness you were able to get all those cool people to do the voices, otherwise this would have maybe been a slog.
I kind of hope someone does a retrospective on Ta-Nehisi Coates' run when it's over.
Good video.
How artists can pack so much into things, in ways you might not even notice, amazes me.
The only thing I dont like about Secret Empire is that Nick Spencer loves Beto lol. Pretty centrist politics but all around nice guy.
Ok. Does it really matter.
@@IkeOkerekeNews It doesn't "matter", I just think its funny that a bunch of Comicsgate guys told everyone how Spencer was some kind of super SJW lefty when he's pretty Centrist and who's hottest take is that Nazi's are bad. I like Spencer though. His Spidey stuff is good.
@@ThatSayYou
Ok then.
@@IkeOkerekeNews what was the point of ur ok then
@@blakeswanson1322
I asked him what was the point with their original comment, and they gave me an answer.
Damn...crazy good!!! I probably would have never come across that story if it wasn’t for this video and it was certainly worth it. Thanks!
Speaking of Border Issues in Comics, there was a great feature in Avengers Spotlight with US Agent going after a rogue border agent who was killing crossers.
I believe Superman had a similar story where he helped immigrants across the border.
I found it appropriate that the Punisher willingly chose to side with Hydra. Safe to assume law enforcement officers that wear his symbol would happily do the same.
Really enjoyed this video! Glad I caught the premiere.
i’ve gotta say i think this is your best video, keep coming back to it
This was incredible José. I don't have anything smart or insightful to say, I just want to commend you on this fantastic piece of work.
Wow, I remember when this came out, and all I heard was "they turned Cap into a nazi and it suuuucks >:(".
After watching this, it honestly seems like some of the best and most nuanced storytelling in Marvel history. People were so blatantly ignoring everything but a surface level reading of it, and that's what sucks :/
The most underrated BreadTuber strikes again. Nice one comrade
Damn. Sometimes you just happen to say the right thing that I needed to hear. I've been grappling with the idea of the United States and what we really stand for, and what we should try to strive for as a country and society. At times I lost hope. But remembering that it's not always about were we have come from, but what we should and can potentially accomplish in the future. Essentially the ideals of what America was supposed to be. It's help give me hope, and hope is one of the most powerful motivators as humans. We can't give up.
Anyone who knows Cap knew the heel turn was a story beat, and he'd be back to normal soon enough. Hell... Cap is known for dealing with reality altering bad guys, so it really shouldn't have been a problem for readers to see.
Secret Wars 1 and 2 were not terrible. They were actually pretty creative for what they were, and served as a way to introduce characters to readers who normally wouldn't read them.
Just like Cap being back to normal after going evil, we knew that Sam filling in for him would be only temporary too.
Hydra Cap, Hydra Supreme, whatever you wanna call him.... Libertarian.
Hank Pym didn't just slap the Wasp, he was abusive many times, in many ways.
Damn it, Scott... I didn't know he was the spy.
The Punisher being a Hydra enforcer for Cap makes sense. He is one of my two favourite characters, but he was never a "good guy". He's a killer, a murderer. He is what happens when trying to do good goes wrong. He's death.
.
.
This review, essay, whatever you call it, it was spot on. You did great work, as usual. This story had a lot of work put into it, it had a build up that worked to make it really an epic tale. I actually followed a few parts, but the story was spread out over far too many issues for me to keep up with.
You are right. Marvel loves money.
Thanks for this. You did great work.
I feel pretty bad about how I dismissed this whole series! I'm really grateful you took the time to actually read and analyse Secret Empire
I hold this up with other great stories like The watchmen
Found myself tearing up a few times throughout it. Pretty good review.
12:50 Huh, thanks for the cool new comic recommendation Fox!
…Fuck, this kind of stuff is exactly up my alley. This was phenomenal
Oh boy. I sure do love C A P I T A L I S M. ®™
People hated the comic without reading it. People simply didn’t read any of it and just hated on it by what they heard online. If people actually read it, they’d know that the Captain America that was a Hydra agent was an alternative version that was displaced to 616, and not our All American made Captain America that we’ve loved forever. Also, if people complain about comics being political, they obviously don’t read them. They have always been political and always will be.
Seriously. It just shows anti-SJWs and 15 year old cat girl commies don't read comic books.
@@-xphobia Hate to break it to you but those are NOT girls.
I was so happy to see this video in my suggestions. I adored the secret empire comic, and I got so frustrated arguing with people about it. Especially when those people never read any of the books and make blanketed statements based on small pieces of knowledge.
Even with depression having reached the downright baffling point where I can't even work up the will to consume media and have no human contact or prospects thereof, what a relative comfort to have hundreds of hours of videos of people talking about things I'm theoretically interested in, like a surrogate inner monologue to pass the time vicariously while protecting me from the solipsistic oppression of having to think my own horrible thoughts.
Exceptional work here, mate!