Is HEMA unnecessary and STUPID? Reply to Hard2Hurt
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- Опубліковано 11 гру 2022
- Icy Mike from Hard2Hurt thinks HEMA is unnecessary and stupid, is he right?
hard2hurt video I'm responding to: • Is a Sword and Shield ...
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This video was great. I appreciate that you actually addressed the points I made, but my favorite part of these is still your viewers arguing with things I didn't say. That's the best part of these exchanges.
that's what all subs do tho
Your hot take at 45:25, I believe that Shad discounts the quality of the sparring, and the availability of quality sparring.
My man. You said in your own video you believe that due to constant sparring rolling and grappling from MMA rounds means that an MMA fighter would be more dangerous with a sword than a Hema fighter. Bruh. Thats like saying an Olympic archer is gonna be better with a gun than a competition cowboy shooter. Do you not hear yourself when you talk? Or edit your videos to pick out bad takes? Do you think that Hema fighters dont spar, or have quality sparring?
@@kevinquintana2647 i said an mma fighter with a sword is more dangerous than a hema fighter with a sword. That's different.
Hey Mike! Thanks for watching and glad you liked it. I love these discussions and appreciate you giving your thoughts.
In the firearms community we have a saying. Train with what you carry. If you intend to use a certain gun as your defense firearm, you train with it, take it to the range, classes, everything. If you intend to defend yourself with a sword I think you should do the same thing. Training with your weapon of choice will make you more likely to come out of the fight alive.
That's very succinct. I'm going to steal that. I love pithy little quotables like that.
This comment needs far more likes
But are you legally allowed to carry a sword as self-defence?
Dang, I live in Canada and while you can own and carry a sword in public, you can't use them for self-defence...
But I doubt anyone would try to attack you >:)
I imagine it's also good to train in the situation you intend to use it for.
If you're using a pistol for home defense than during at targets 600 meters away might not be as good as firing at closer ones.
Then again I'm no expert so take that with a grain of salt.
@@spiffygonzales5160 generally yes, 10 to 20 feet but you want be proficient in all aspects because who knows the situation. A man stopped an active shooter from 80 yards with a pistol this year.
A 45 minute discussion about using swords and baseball bats.
"What would you use for a weapon?"
"An Axe"
I gottasay I died from that xD
I trained MMA for several years. In more recent years I have done HEMA and Buhurt style armored combat. My grappling skills I learned from MMA have been useful (although they had to be altered, and some techniques were less useful or not useful) in HEMA and Buhurt. However, learning how to fight against someone who has a weapon with a weapon...is best done by practicing with a weapon...against someone else with a weapon, not by fighting unarmed. Anyone with a sword or other melee weapon can be dangerous, but knowing how to use weapons makes a lot of difference. And it took me a long time to be able to hold my own against skilled fencers/fighters. MMA experience didn't automatically make me vastly better with a sword...although I do still love grappling in HEMA and armored combat.
holy shit are you another actual Channing? hi i'm Channing k. i never see another Channing anywhere.
@Channing Deadnight I'm noticing children named Channing nowadays, probably thanks to Mr. Tatum, but Channings over 20 are still a rare thing. Well met, Channing.
Let me back you up on this. I used to study Muy Thai, BJJ, American kickboxing, and boxing at a MMA gym back in college. I ALSO had friends who padded PVC pipes with duct tape, that screwed around with them and called it sword fighting. They invited me out once, and I wiped the floor with them. I actually got pretty big headed about it, and they finally got sick of it, and told me that if I challenged the HEMA instructor at our upcoming Renaissance Fair and won, they'd bow down to my none-sense and admit I was the G.O.A.T, or whatever.
So I did.
I even brought my own swords (Well, THEIR swords, actually.) in case the guy got scared and tried to use "not having the proper weapon" as an excuse to back out. I was VERY caught off guard over just how enthusiastic he was about having a live test moron to showcase his HEMA skills on. Never have I gotten my ass beat so badly. The dude actually DISARMED me, using a stupid padded pipe makeshift weapon he'd never wielded before, then actually lowered his guard and with his free hand that I was welcome to pick my weapon back up, and he wouldn't attack me. I was already embarrassed, because we had a crowd watching us now, so I snatched it back up, just for him to IMMEDIATELY disarm me again, and make the same gesture. It was SO humiliating. I'd have been furious if the bastard wasn't so likeable, and if I wasn't laughing at me too.
I couldn't have brought more students to their class than if they'd actually hired me to do it. The amount of crap my friends gave me the rest of that year was rough, but ABSOLUTELY deserved.
... I didn't sign up for HEMA though. I was already putting multiple hours a day into my MMA routines, and I didn't own a sword, nor would I have been allowed to keep one in my dorm. Probably for the best. I know the kinds of people who "everyday carry" a sword, and lets just say if I'd joined them I'd probably still be a virgin. hahaha
This just seems like it would be common sense.
I think what Shad is saying is that while Mike might be able to win 60 or 70% of the time the difference between 70% and 90% in a life or death situation is enormous.
Yea survival is a numbers game people dont realize that, life on the line you want every little advantage
it's infuriating that Mike would advocate "some training with a sword" but rejects "some proper training with a sword" as useless
@@TrueFork Def. He should have said ""train on the best weapon you got available" lol.
Most people in the world don't own guns but they can own other weapons.
@@TrueFork its kinda just hypocritical because i know hes said before ro train with what you intend to use - yet with a sword he dismisses it because 'hema is for nerds'. I get the impression henl just doesnt think hema is actually martially viable and probably pictures more like olympic fencing.
Icy Mike is not considering the possibility of being home invaded by a swordsman
“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own” -- Bruce Lee
Musashi said it first in his book of five rings. Bruce Lee applied his teachings.
@@bakerboy8910 there is a common pattern about that every person that has reached top level martial arts said similar stuff and also the be like water thing interesting isn't it?
@@meismancapitan9367 When did Bruce Lee become a top martial artist? The dude was an actor. A very skilled actor with actual training, but he wasn't really a fighter
@Fernando tell that to the guy who played O'Hara in enter the dragon. He thought the same thing, he wouldn't fake the hits in the scene, and Bruce got tired of it. The last kick of that scene (the side kick) was a full-on hit from Bruce, and he got launched 5 to 10 feet.
Bruce wasn't a pro fighter, but he was a master of Wing-chun. He developed jeet-kun-do. He was highly skilled.
@@magicbknight8024 being able to hit hard isn't what makes a fighter a fighter. An obese man can knock you out with a badly thrown punch. You could have literally knocked Mike Tyson in his prime if he wasn't taking you seriously at all and didn't defend against a hook to the chin.
How many fights did Bruce Lee participate in? Heck, you mentioned wing Chun but in one of the few fights he actually participated in, he realized that his wing chun training didn't hold up to pressure.
Bruce Lee was a great actor, inspiring figure, martial arts practitioner and philosopher, but he wasn't a fighter.
In a home defense situation, I'd argue *anything* beats *nothing.*
Whether you have a zweihander or a Mk18, either is better than using your bare hands to defend your life or the lives of your loved ones.
a sharp spoon beats nothing.
you are not going to be doing anything with that zweihander inside your home. Even if you get space to use it, you've somehow got to also close to their distance at the same time, retaining swing space. You're committing both hands and carrying a rather heavy object...
... and a dangerous enough object that your attacker is now justified to lethal level of personal defense.
@@temptempy1360 Half sword that shit and make use of it like a spear.
I said Zwei because it was the first thing that came to mind that has ties to HEMA that isn't a gun.
My point is to arm yourself with ANYTHING,
@@thewooz7398 Even half sword a Zwei not your best choice :) the cross piece on those babes are massive.
But yes, that was my thought. Classic sword strike can be very difficult to use to full stop a skilled opponent who is determined to close quickly. So I'm thinking the mma person will use the sword as a brief shield to block as they close. Not when playing silly buggers in the gym, but in a home invasion 1on1 with furniture etc when things are serious, the mma guy is going to go straight to his strengths.
Lots of people who train legitimately find their training completely smashed in a poor matchup against an untrained opponent who has a good body and mind for athletics. Choosing the right tool for the job is as important of a step as any. If your goal is home defense, you should choose something that's not hampered by close quarters and won't leave any room for them to mistake you for a mall ninja. Maybe something like a falchion, because most home invaders would be terrified at having stumbled into the house of someone who keeps a machete in his bedroom.
Seems that everyone overlooked one of the most important points. If you are invading a home with a weapon the chances, are you are somewhat prepared to use it, if you invade a home without a weapon and the homeowner has one, I guarantee you are running away as fast as you can, if you can. To add this too, Shad is right that if you are defending your home with a sword, you are better off with more knowledge in sword fighting because if your invader is intending to fight back that's because he already has a weapon if he doesn't, he will run away most likely, so the chances of fighting an unarmed home invader are quite low in comparison to fighting an armed invader.
And if you are the fact you have a weapon makes it fairly likely you will win since it's kinda hard to go fisticuffs against a dude with a sword
Actually a big brained take!
Yeah it's very rare someone will try a home invasion without a weapon regardless of geographical location
To add to your point as well, if a home invader came into your house unarmed and you had a sword, like you said odds are they are running away. But even if they don’t, at least depending where you live. If you we’re to use the sword on an unarmed invader you will probably be charged with attempted murder because they really weren’t much of a threat to you in that case. So in the situation where a sword is your choice of weapon you effectively will only be using it if they have a weapon as well and will want as much weapon training as possible. But it’s also true that any fight training is way better than none
hard2hurt is one of those small framed dwaves who have to overcompensate by being arrogant and loud
There's nothing unnecessary about learning.
@@Skedge what’s something you can learn that is useless
@@composaboiyou should learn about the Star Wars books that are no longer canon due to Disney Star Wars making them useless obsolete information. Go learn about it and tell me what you get out of it lol
@@composaboi flat earth theories... right sharks dance moves... idk give me enough time to think of it ill probably compile a fat list of things that are useless to learn
@@crustybomb115 Learning Flat Earth arguments assists in dispelling them.
De-canonized books can still be entertaining and have valuable messages.
There's nothing unnecessary about beating each other for fun.
Hey Shad, in reference to Dave’s point. There was a time when sportification was sportive combat, so people dreaded the arts becoming tag. That is pretty much gone now, people have started to respect the material culture in reference to the sources (not at entry level but overall it is now more common).
Since you brought up I.33, in reference to the topic, I used to instruct on the material. The one thing people used to say is “no leg cuts” simply because the material says cutting low opens up the upper part of the body, namely the head. So people would say you are not doing I.33 if you cut to the legs. But as with most HEMA subjects, 90% of the online experts haven’t read the sources themselves, and this would be a wrong takeaway from the reading. You will find that to be the case with most of the arguments put forth in that vein.
That statement sums up most "experts" regarding any number of subjects, they haven't read the sources themselves nor even tried. Instead they read or listen to what other people say about the sources, which is usually based off what someone else said about the source.
As someone who went into LARP from over a decade of martial arts training, I was absolutely more competent than someone coming in fresh, but I had so many bad habits that got punished and exploited by more experienced sword fighters.
Larp is full of bullshit due to many of their weapons being made of foam and no weight to them. I have done hema AND larp, and larp was largely useless because they do not use properly weighted weapons, edge awareness, and the slightest tap is counted as a point, which wouldn't even cut your shirt.
ill always consider it like this...an experienced martial arts fighter picking up a sword is still a newb with a sword, he just has better physical conditioning but will be outclassed by technique by those who do know swords a majority of the time until they git gud.
and thats LARP, imagine HEMA, fencing, kenjutsu, kendo,buhurt etc
I practice both HEMA/Kenjutsu and MMA.
The only two things that really cross over is footwork and timing. Everything else has to be learned. Including distance (which has to be relearned).
I also agree that experimenting by yourself also helps solidify stuff that works.
thats what i think was quite noticable: his mma trained distance judgement was completely thrown off by the length of the weapon. his defensive reactions all seemed to only kick in once the opponent got into what would be his usual bare handed reach. that way he lost almost all advantage the length of the blade gives him.
@TheScarvig 100% agree with you. I also noticed this when I started training in weapons. I started in open/bare handed artforms and realised I had a lot of issue trying to catch my opponent in sword systems. So many missed swings.
I've seen this happen to so many people who were in my position, and find it curious that it was in this video too.
Idk if I trust someone saying they train "MMA" 😂😂
@@Kamingo170 why not?
@@DarkLawify lol wtf is kenjutsu
Sounds like some larping shit
I am actually a fairly experienced karate practitioner, who picked up some sword training recently. What I can tell is that with a sword, I struggle and make many rookie mistakes. I learn way faster than anyone who has no or little experience, that is true. However, against people who are more capable with a weapon, I become most dangerous when I actually get to short distance, possibly even drop my weapon, and just stop trying to treat the fight as a sword fight. Because then suddenly, I hit that switch when I am home, and more often than not, I can in the very least disarm my opponent and that's it. So, fighting with and without a sword is very different, and I wouldn't come into hasty conclusions about what is better/easier/easier to jump from to the other one/whatever. They are just different things. Something to think about.
Not to mention that all martial arts are useful to get more coordinated, also something like swordsmanship and other melee weapon based training, karate, kung fu and such you are actually training your mind to focus on the moment and what you are doing. Swinging a sword isn't a difficult thing to do, controlling where it goes and how it hits its the tricky part where you want to train, seeing your blade cut trough that bottle of water or bamboo roll is just satisfying because it means you got better or even good at it, you learned, you have progressed and you build self esteem. Martial arts should be more widespread, all of them
It's also important to realize that weapon systems weren't taught in a vacuum. In war times, which we aren't in, learning to fight with a weapon includes learning to grapple with that weapon (whether you have one in your hands or not).
This is made even more apparent by "I become most dangerous when I actually get to short distance, possibly even drop my weapon [...] and more often than not, I can in the very least disarm my opponent"
@@MrTehNoms Exactly. I also urge to not compare martial arts. None is "better". Teachers, students, classes - practitioners - are better or worse. One can study the same art under 2 different teachers and get completely different results. There's also a big difference between just studying techniques, and studying the system and its workings, which produce those techniques and allow for own style and improvisation.
Same for me. Going from Jujutsu to longsword involved having to re-learn some ways of thinking and reacting while keeping the things that work in both systems. I'm more dangerous while grappling than in the bind, but that's just more experience in the one system.
Thing is, the sword is but a tool. A fighter just using the blade is the equivalent of a martial artist just using one fist. An actual expert wouldn't do that because the crossguard or pommel make nice clubs closer in. Heck, a gauntlet or a metal clad elbow can hurt effeticely too.
However, if you only train to use the blade then you limit yourself of course.
And never underestimate how difficult it is to defend against an unknown weapon or technique. Your muscle memory of fighting against batons or unarmed oponents may very well work against you against a bladed oponent.
Love Hard2Hurt. Love Shadiversity. Would love to see a future collab between you two. I’m CERTAIN there’s more in common between you two than HEMA.
mma vs sword LET'S GO lol
@@m0-m0597 🤺
Yin and yang… mike is a southerner training to fight off meth heads while shad is in the mythical land of Australia training to battle gelatinous cubes
@@m0-m0597 Pretty ez to see who wins...
@@m0-m0597 I’d recommend 2 years of Boxing twice a week, 2 years of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu twice a week, 2 years of Krav Maga twice a week, 2 months of Floro Fighting System knife fighting and 2 months of HEMA and then maintain as needed and aside from carrying OC spray and a Sig P320 X-Compact 9mm you’ll be covered for pretty much every situation you hope you never have to face. But that’s just me.
"An mma fighter give him a few hours with a rifle he's more dangerous than a soldiers who's been on half a dozen combat tours" - icy mike
Didnt think id be this entertained but this discussion was so good i didnt even realise over 50 minutes had passed.
There are many attacks against people who wield machetes or knives. You likely won't have an equivalent weapon but you might have luggage, a chair, or even a stick that if you do have sword training you stand a far better chance of winning the encounter than simple hand to hand training.
Yeah, and also traditional blade weapon are something that can be get easily in my Southeast Asian Country, and let me tell you that. Everytime a fight happen involved with our traditional weapon, the ending would be really nasty. Yeah sure a good boxer or any mix martial art artist will dominated anyone with 12 to 24 inch blade attacking furiously with intent to really hurt or kill them. Especially melee martial art is still alive and well and many part of Southeast Asian and it's common for any villager to know at least some basic about it.
Yeah, hard2hurt Channel sometimes like to make controversial statement about something, that sometimes I agree, but sometimes can be quite silly.
There is an aspect HEMA should absolutely take from MMA tho 100%. Grappling. It works so well together and history proves this as well.
But also the importance of FITNESS, cardio, movement (Karate bladed stance movement is the most similar to one weapon martial arts), two handed is more squared like Muay Thai. Learning to move IN STANCE for long periods of time is so important.
@@ElDrHouse2010 I bet we can find a good number of grapples in European training manuals. This stereotype that medieval Europeans do not have unarmed combat style is lazy.
@@randomusernameCallin Fiore dei Liberi didn't encourage grappling and ground fighting in his books cause those approaches were the most dangerous things to do during the age when every man from the simple peasants to high lords carried some type of dagger and therefore, I thought Europeans had no grappling at all.
Why would you decide to buy a sword for self defense but think it useless to train with it?
Its like buying a gun, go to a shooting range once and conclude "i'm good" because I am able to throw a baseball.
Also in support of Shads argument about fighting the weapon. Look at the guy with the bat. His counter attacks alway go at the buckler.
Also you don't know what the Burglar is going to come in with. It could be a Machete (also a sword), the more you train the better with at least 1 month or a week he wouldnt have got the sword grappled. Mike got a point tho Sword & Buckler will often beat a Baseball Bat (duh). But who knows: other Burglar weapons are also Crowbars which stand a better chance & hit harder, they can break your weapon hand with 1 solid hit on the fingers.
I'm a Rapier fighter in the SCA and something I learned that I feel Mike is missing. No matter how much you *know* about sword combat, that doesn't necessarily mean you are ready to use it in a real fight. They happen so quickly that having real sword training and practice makes a big difference. It feels like he knows a bit about fighting with a sword, but has little to no muscle memory for it.
No, he's a fighter. Hes an ex SWAT cop and kickboxer. I think he understands pretty well how a fight goes down and his capabilities in such situations...
@@TristanBehrensHe’s taking about fighting with a sword, not fighting in general.
@@TristanBehrens The operative phrase here is "fighting WITH A SWORD." SWAT operations usually do not involve swords, nor does kickboxing.
@@omnitroph1501 What? SWAT doesn't stand for Sword Warrior Assault Troop? 🤣🤣
@@theinnerlight8016 when the Twitch streamer you're watching hears "POLICE GET ON THE GROUND" and a centurion marches in with multiple decani each pressing a gladius against the skinny LoL player streaming
This is the controversy I didn’t know I needed in my life
I want to add that I really appreciate Tyranth's crosstalk in this video, debating your points and providing another view! It definitely enriches the experience.
i honestly found it annoying, his points were bad. he didn't seem to listen when shad explained, because he wanted to make his point and not interrupt his boss. I also just found the bad argument annoying.
not here for a drama channel, or a live argument channel
@@narutobankai I honestly didn't find it annoying, but eh
@@narutobankai no way, hes the best counter Shad has ever had. All the others have just been comedic yesmen.
Just to say, I love Shad to bits but he has a way of rolling over people he's talking to. This dude stood his ground and was great, because it brought out a lot more nuance.
I liked your mention of Xu Xiaodong, because he is treated so unfairly for showing the folly of rigid dogma within martial arts.
At that 32:30 mark, I also think Mike’s dropping of the buckler really illustrates Shad’s point. In boxing and other striking martial arts, it’s a noob mistake to have your guard up, and then drop your hands once you start fighting. Mike knows this principle, and yet he still makes the mistake.
I think Mike was being purposely spicy with this one. I'm reminded of another take he had regarding BJJ (which he practices):
A big guy with some basic BJJ training can probably take down most people he comes across with, whereas if you're a smaller person you'd need far more training to be effective. Weapons and techniques are force multipliers, if you are already capable of outputting force (through strength training or just sheer weight), the amount of force multiplication that you need to be effective is less than with someone who is less capable of outputting force.
When it comes to weapon against weapon, I do think that Mike might be forgetting that, well, the other person is also wielding a force multiplier that they don't need much training to be deadly with, so at that point the difference in training and experience are what might tip the scales
EXACTLY!!!
I think the MMA training is actually counter productive to sword fighting. He seemed focused on direct blows and grappling. As you pointed out, he doesn't withdraw his blade at all, but there's also no sweeping slashes to control spacing or use of draw cuts. He basically used his sword like a very short spear.
I once handed a longsword to a MA guy and the first thing he did was hit himself in the head with the crossguard :D the guy had some experience with Japanese swords...
Or like a knife, which he said he is familiar with. I suspect he'd have done better with a spear.
He was pretending to be in a home-like hallway (he has it taped off and at one point tells his partner that he's out of bounds)
He would die against a trained blade user
@@JohnSmith-qy1wm anyone who's ever tried swordt training at home has probably hit a ceiling at least once.
Having trained in kickboxing and karate most of my life and recently transitioning over to kendo as an adult, I have to say Shad makes some really strong points.
If you plan to rely on a weapon as you self defense tool to save your life, you should be training with it regularly. I had an easier time transitioning into kendo from my background in karate, but for the first year or so would still have preferred to rely on my hands when it came down to the wire because I've trained with them for way longer. I was also still making a ton of newbie mistakes despite my martial arts experience, and still am today lol. Now that I only do kendo regularly, I trust myself less in boxing and feel more comfortable with a sword.
From a self defense perspective, your plan for an invasion should be something you can rely on when you stop thinking and training kicks in, which is why you should be practicing with your weapon regularly if you plan to protect your life with it.
Kali would be a good transition from Karate
Try Kenjutsu and Kali(for weapon mastery and creativity)since if you're in the west it's much easier to find kali or if you're in the east there's Kenjutsu. And try to spar too.
But with your knowledge, in a household setting, how easy is it to get that "stopping blow" with your sword against a determined aggressive attacker?
@@temptempy1360 very
@@deltazenturo1701 guess you've never tried then.
I like Mike's content, but I would really love to hear him explain the logic behind choosing a specific weapon for self defense and not practicing with it. I'm pretty sure if we asked him if it's a good idea to buy a gun, put it on a shelf and think that you're immune to home invasions, he would tell us to go to the range and practice with it. Also, he doesn't seem to understand how probability works.
That's what I'm saying. He says just playing with a sword for a few hours and having mma training is enough for most people but just doing one year of bjj is enough for most street fights too. That doesn't mean you should continue to train or learn new ways of fighting. A good warrior is able to fight at any range and I thought it was dumb how he doesn't say if you use a sword to protect yourself then you could get away with a couple hours of playing but if you use a gun you need to keep on training. Plenty of people hurt themselves with sharp objects cause they don't know how to use them.
he made a bad take now he is being a troll for free views and content. kinda sad that he is just reveling in his dumb
Arguing with Shad is like trying to shout down a jet plane
I think people often forget something very important: IT'S FUN!
Mike pointed out in the video that it is for fun.
pretty sure Mike said that in his video XD
F is for friends that do stuff together
This. HEMA is at least as useful as.. say, Tennis.
@@Talon3000 Technically running away is the fastest way to end a fight, which you do a lot of in tennis.
Mike's got to fight a hema expert now
Oh yes when Mike went all "I could wreck a HEMA class" he stepped in it.
This turned pretty quickly into a "How to beat up sword user house owners with a baseball bat tutorial".
You know what needs to happen right? Mike needs to train for a few hours with a sword and buckler and Shad needs to train for a few hours in MMA and then have a sparring match where you take turns with the baseball bat vs sword/buckler
It makes me smile that mike got a reaction video from a very passionate hema youtuber. It's like free publicity for hema channels.
I've watched this channel and 1-2 others before, so I'm happy to see this.
You know mike was bating you and other channels to make another martial arts collaboration. Lol. I didn't think of it until part way through this comment.
Oh of course it was bait, but it's also fun to bite.
@@shadiversity I'm sure it was. I had a similar idea from a passed video.
Thanks for the reply.
@@shadiversity Seemed like the guy was just creating an excuse for a "sword"-measuring contest between an "MMA guy" and "HEMA nerds".
@@Vaeldarg pretty much. And it's working. Lol.
I watched his video where he says Hema is useless but not fencing not realizing fencing is kind of part of Hema lmao
Ending a fight earlier is ALWAYS better. Especially when weapons are involved. HEMA giving you the ability to end the fight earlier is a massive advantage. The longer the fight takes, the more likely you are to be injured.
“What are the odds of a home invader being trained?”
Honestly? High. There are good chances of them having fighting or martial arts experience, especially in some regions more than others; you don’t put yourself into a position to fight people unless you’re comfortable with the possibility. If you’ve got two people with weapons with fighting experience, but one of them is not just generally experienced but experienced *with a sword* and *has a sword*, then that’s the key advantage compared to a guy with knife who’s used to street fights. That’s what Shad’s angle gets at.
Uhm... No... Usually it's pretty fucking low.
You don't put yourself in a position you need to rob houses, unless your *desperate* and it has nothing to do with being comfortable in a fight.
You carring your knife or gun, or weapon is what makes you feel comfortable in a fight.
Not because you spent money to get training in fighting.
If you had the training, you're more than likely not a person desperate enough to ever need to resort to burglarizing in the first place...
So again..
No.
It's severly low that a person robbing your house has even a good education let alone, formal training in some martial art. Instead they're going to carry a weapon that does the force multiplying for them.
i mean its obvious; real training is better, its a joke to pretend otherwise. if his point is a guy with a sword beats a guy without one, then no duh....
experience isnt training. you dont see many home invaders in fencing in the olympics. it doesn't matter what it is, training in the exact scenario is going to make your better; regardless if you have talent in a semi related field.
@@narutobankai This is largely what I meant in my originally point. It’s true that people with formal training are actually less likely to do this kind of thing, but if the counter argument is that the kind of person who would do this is poor and has a bad education then… they’ve likely been in a street fight at least once, and I consider that “fighting experience”. It’s something of a cliche that many of the best fighters in combat sports come from rough and tough lives and have questionable histories, especially in boxing.
Yeah the guy burglarizing your house probably doesn’t know karate but he’s probably thrown hands a few times for real. “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face”. It’s largely stupid and ineffectual to go around assuming that in the unlikely event you are threatened by an unknown individual that they won’t be able to fight at all-underestimating an armed mysterious home invader is a terrible idea all around. Even if you’re right, it’s stupid and risky. People with poor educations and rough lives are neither weak nor inherently stupid.
@@TheLordGojira not sure what your on about. but people with poor educations are stupid. that's the point of education. street fighting experience, doesn't mean anything when a sword is involved.
"Give an mma guy a sword for two hours and he's a problem" Absolute crap if he's talking about the opponent having as much experience in HEMA.
“most guys” seems to be the point both arguments hinge on.
The stereotype comes to mind of a person untrained in any form of combat intent on robbery.
“Most guys” would probably also be unarmed or have a gun, knife, or club type weapon.
They would probably depend on intimidation and surprise to get what they want.
In that situation any form of training would give you an edge.
Shad, you’re responding to a man who thought that unarmed he could beat a large wolf by blocking its bite with his arm and “not let it pull him down”, and wasn’t sure he could beat a sloth because they have big claws and he could die of infection.
id wager most people trained or not would get wrecked by most aggressive wild animals.
Hell even something like a small rabid monkey would be dangerous
Yeah this guy sound like a "i hit things hard" kind of guy...
And if you ask what if... he wil just say "hit thing hard"
A compleet simpleton...
You're being disenguous.
@@edot7266 I’m not. He said those things. And I’m not saying he’s stupid I’m saying he’s observably very confident about things he doesn’t seem to know much or have thought very deeply about and overvalues the confidence given to him by his training and experience. That may benefit him in life in general, idk, but it’s not really true here.
It’s worth noting that he knew he couldn’t fight a pig because he had a pig as a kid and had experience there, but for animals he hadn’t personally experienced he didn’t seem to know how it would go down. So it is with swords I’m guessing.
Dude he is joking
its odd for someone that does martial arts to make such a bold claim. just like how everyone can throw a punch, it takes practice and guidance to throw a punch effectively. its even wilder when you introduce things that arent intuitive like joint locks and breaks which involve understanding certain body mechanics of how things ARENT supposed to bend. It also a whole different story when you introduce an opponent and then suddenly having to apply that knowledge on an person that wont just let you hurt them.
TLDR: Just because you can swing a sword, doesnt mean you know how to use it.
Landing a good punch is way harder than landing a good slash to be fair.
@@goofy855landing a good slash in an area where it does substantial damage is harder to through a punch in that regard as well.
@@maddogs1989 Name one area where you can get slashed that won't cause substantial damage.
@@goofy855 backside of forearm - no ligaments, arteries, major views.
Across the chest - just muscle damage no major cut leads to death
Front of shin - again no major arteries, viens, or ligaments
If going to get cut need to sacrifice ligament in hand control black with top of forearm. Ligament controls opening of hand not the closing of able to maintain grip of weapons.
I can continue.... understanding of anatomy is how knife fighters determine what is able to be sacrificed because they will get cut. There's alot of slashes that are superficial with no real damage outside of musculature which is easily survivable.
@@maddogs1989 As I expected you switched the conversation from the topic of the video (swords) to knives.
Back of the forearm and shins? A sword could chop through both easily. Chest? Obviously you'll die if someone slashes you there with a sword.
Please stay on topic. The video and the comment I was replying to are talking about swords.
There is nowhere on the human body that you can get slashed with a sword and survive.
Icy Mike overextendeds himself in these topic. He is a great teacher of hand to hand combat...not so of traditional weapons
But this discussion is specifically within the context of home/self defense. His expertise.
@@MalikBarrow16 and yet he was very wrong.
But if he didn’t overextend we wouldn’t have a video to respond to it.
@@MalikBarrow16 to which he has in many videos shown he actually doesn't know as much as he thinks
@@gallowglass3764 right, the ex swat guy doesn't know what he's talking about
*Insert knife scene from starship troopers*
Man, watching Shad's instantaneous reactions to every attempted attack is mesmerizing. One swift motion and he's gone from defending to the perfect attacking position. Every time. Without HEMA training I'm looking at this and just thinking, "How do you beat that?!"
Practice and patience, to train you must be ready to get bonked lol, im a rookie but ive had the pleasure of self training and having hema fighters give me pointers at the local ren festivals.
by getting an opponent who is moving slower than you and trying to show a principle, not actually attacking, and the attacks Shad is actually using wouldn't be stopping blows, and as just mentioned, his opponent isn't defending or preparing angainst Shad's attack, he's trying to explain and point out something (that is ignored by "I'm the mighty winner King" Shad).
The martial arts equivalent of what Shad is doing is the styles that do "we don't spar because our stuff is toooo dangerous". Sure it looks good - until you know what's going on or try to do such things against an aggressive non-submissive opponent (c.f. sparring/training partner)
I was a little surprised that there wasn’t a cold open with Shad going into an nerd rage…
But then I remembered Shad has no issue addressing the argument without getting upset. Well done guys!
Ah, another installment in my favorite series, "Revenge of the Shad".
The vast majority of home invaders (who don't have guns) will be armed with a prybar, or maybe a hammer. The thing they used to break in. So you need to defend against that and against being tackled, and you're pretty much set. A shield keeps them from getting a hit in with a heavy, unbalanced weapon, and a sword ready to thrust will deal with an attempted takedown.
Unless, of course, you're a small, weak person, have a physical disability, or your home invader is extremely large, competent, or on PCP or something. Then, you're screwed.
Which is what guns are for.
Or boar/winged spears in the hallway...
@@SonsOfLorgar That has the problem of being a lot easier to grab. Knock the spear aside, grab the shaft, and now it's a wrestling match.
@desperate need of scotch It's a huge part of the gun control debate in the U.S. that anti-gunners and the media completely ignore. Ban guns and you're not just disarming the law-abiding while leaving guns in the hands of criminals, you're taking away the best defense that physically weaker people have.
In the state where I grew up (Oklahoma), it's a felony for a mother to fail to defend her child from an attacker. The insanity of the law aside, the fact that Oklahoma is the only one with this law, _and_ the only one with more women in prison than men tells you just how difficult it is for a woman to stop an angry man.
@desperate need of scotch Yeah, its actually really hard to find a good tool for self defense beside a gun for a small or weak person. The most efficient recommended for those people, they better be really good in cardio.
you know what they say, more is more. Especially when it comes to stopping power.
You and Mike should definitely do a hands on experiment on this. Now that would be a great collab!
The thing with real life fighting where your life is in danger is even if you know concepts of fighting, actually using them effectively is going to likely fail you in the heat of the moment. It's why in martial arts your are taught techniques repeatedly over and over again to enforce the muscle movements in your head to not just do it properly but instinctively. No matter if you tell someone to hold a proper guard and they know how to do it, the moment someone is coming at them with a weapon and a fight ensues, chances are that guard they have is going to fall apart in the heat of the moment, something only a lot of practice is going to help stop you from doing.
Yea like this reminds me bro
No matter how much striking training I have
Whenever I corner someone it’s so fucking hard not to just let go of techniques and start bruting them with your fist
Okay.....before I start fully watching this:
I hear homedefense + HEMA and my first thought is "well....where else if not at home is it viable?"
Its not like the police uses ballistic shields in formations or anything. You add a pointy-stabby to that and become an armed intruders worst nightmare. (assuming living in america :) )
But calling ANY sort of martial arts (or even hobbies in general) stupid is it itself a stupid statement.
Listing a few reasons for martial arts:
exercise
stress relief
fun
the surrounding community
self-defense
boosting confidence
just because you, personally, dont like a hobby doesnt mean its shit.
23:00 hell ya brother 😎 I'm a firearms instructor in America so someone breaking into my house is going to have such a bad time but love this video. This MMA guy's overconfidence is a common thing among that crowd in general. "Someone untrained with a deadly weapon can be deadly with it" is an obvious statement with zero application. The same could be said with guns and MMA itself, not just swords. If I gave a completely untrained person a gun and at least showed them how it worked, they can be deadly with it. BUT they would stand little to zero chance against a trained person with a gun. Same goes for swordsmanship and even for MMA. I did MMA for years and even when I was brand new, I could over power people with years of experience if I was much bigger and stronger than them or surprised them... Because my size and strength advantage was a force disparity. As the force disparity increases, the less training is required to be effective, especially if an intuitive weapon like a stick or sword. The problem is, in a self defense situation, you never want to voluntarily give your opponent a higher chance of killing you and if you win 80% of the time untrained, you would win 99%+ of the time with training. That's an astronomical difference in real life where you don't get a second chance. Even a 5% difference is astronomical in life or death terms. If this guy tried to spar with a trained swordsman, it would be hilariously humbling for him to realize he would never land a strike unscathed.
I wish he would, the guy needs humbling lol
I hear you on the overconfidence of the MMA guy. On one hand, he is correct that his baseline knowledge gives him an edge over a rando with no training... but the kinds of thugs bold enough to break into a home with knife or bat in hand has training from the school of hard knocks. They might not have refined skill, but they know what they're doing. Him keeping up with "Yes you're right, but..." mindset reminds me of the times I've used old-school karate to humble some MMA types who, while quite good at their craft, weren't taking me seriously as a fellow martial artist with the most common remark being "well, I'll just double-leg you and make you tap from there" while forgetting that I'm perfectly aware of what a double leg takedown is and know how to defend against it. It's almost as of the MMA types think we're still in 1993 and grappling isn't mainstream.
Ohh I was waiting for this one lol. Seriously, didn't think the response will be so quick.
Learning how to use a sword most effectively is the best way to learn how to use a sword effectively.
Who would've guessed.
Another thing, Some offenders can be hyped up on drugs, which means they might be able to continue their attack, despite taking mortal wounds. This has happened in the US where responding police officer still get attacked despite shooting the attacker. So knowing how to property defend yourself while attacking is a good thing.
Then again, I believe in never stop learning.
I should think HEMA, isolated from other martial arts, is significantly better for home defense than it is for typical self-defense, but that's because HEMA is using lethal force, and there are many fewer times when lethal force is justifiable for self-defense than for home defense.
These are probably my favorite types of videos. Would be cool if you could collaborate/debate with Martial Arts guys for stuff like this in addition to the responding.
One interesting thing about Hema is that it isn't JUST swords and shields and medieval weaponry, it also has wrestling, pugilism, savate, and various dagger/knife fighting styles. Taking that into account means that Hema cannot be written off as unnecessary or useless, as it has teachings for every kind of encounter. Weapons? Check. Striking? Check. Grappling? Check. Modern fighters could learn a thing or two from older manuals and books if they looked into them, especially considering that many of the "modern" techniques are similar to older ones or are directly evolved from them in the case of many wrestling moves.
He has a history of sh***ing on other martial arts. I'd have thought after doing the same with Jesse Enkamp and having the guy extend the hand of friendship he'd have learnt his lesson. He just seems to think MMA is the best, so why does anyone bother doing anything else?
I think Mike adds a lot of great stuff to the world of MA and has some brilliant insights on practical self defense, but I wish he would stop trying to bring everyone else down.
He is a man thoroughly up his own ass. He thinks he can barefist beat a wolf when in reality he would get slaughtered by a coyote.
4:29 Shad is confirmed as Shōnen anime protagonist
5:48 if it is stupid but works, it ain't stupid
6:39 I believe this is how part of Hero's journey, starting how to grow yourself
7:50 Everyone can punch, but punching effectively without injuring yourself is what makes knowing martial arts better than just self-taught
9:24 *Facepalm* that's comparing apple to orange
10:35 I agree on this, the best way of self-defence is just get gun and trained with it
11:09 I believe the real martial arts function is to achieve harmony trough self-discipline
11:50 this is what he thought that traditional martial arts, it is obsolete compared to modern martial arts
14:29 just because you can fight in certain martial arts doesn't make you expert in handling swords
17:09 & 20:39 knowing is half of the battle
19:38 that's definition of simple yet awesome, simple movement can turn the battle
20:22 Practice make perfect
22:58 that's the lamest sword movement I ever see
23:06 Stance is the most basic thing in martial art, yet the most important thing that will decide the outcome of combat
24:33 I don't think just a couple of hours training can make you instantly expert, constantly training conditioning your body to act and react to such situation
25:00 Truth
34:22 Home attacker more likely taking something light like knife or handgun rather than something cumbersome, to maximize the chance of escape in case the homeowner strikes back
34:35 that's the half of battle
39:35 Go for the head Shad!
41:14 Expertise in one subject doesn't mean you can be an instant expert in another subject, even if it almost same
42:50 You can tell he isn't an expert because of his lack of self awareness
44:17 this is why gun is better for home defence
45:09 Clever guy
45:28 That's a load of BS
47:56 You can tell Shad had expertise from an actual sword fighting here
49:25 He's completely clueless about HEMA obviously
52:11 Simple things can change the course of action
52:38 Final conclusion of this video
52:51 Closing statement
Man. That guy sounds like a fullblown idjit.
Got major liver king vibes from every little clip there.
This is a straight up bizarre comment lol
@@macdietz indeed lol
Oof. H2H needed a hema guy for this... 😐
It's like we're watching the video together.
One of my pals is a HEMA instructor and he often told me, that his pupils are often a bit reluctant when it comes to (historical) grappling.
Icy mike brings up the cost benefit analysis of training a gun for self defence vs. training unarmed/mixed combat all the time.
A small amount of stress tested training with either a gun or a sword and buckler, will make you far more effective at self defence than years of MMA.
This means if you feel you actually need to defend yourself, you should learn your weapon first.
However, after 1 year on any weapon system, the self defence gains from more training will be minimal compared to working on unarmed techniques as a back up to your primary weapon and as a way get an effective stress test on a regular basis.
Well, I guess there are reasons why Eastern Martial arts with weaponry always starts with a wooden sword. You'll have to forgive me, but I am a HUGE believer in a strong foundation and repetition making sure your mind is ready when the offal hits the air circulatory device. It's become a reflex. In my years I've seen some pretty stupid things done by seasoned practitioners.
Practice makes permanent
It has finally happened. My love of and practice of mixed martial arts, has blended into my love of sword fighting and historical martial arts. And it’s from two of my favorite UA-cam channels! I love it! 😁
I love icy mike as well as (c)had, im giggling like a schoolgirl over here over this beef. I'm getting the barbecue ready....!
its a crossover none of us were really expecting, then again, mike was also being abit mike, and considering other youtubers in that circle have ventured into things like hema and buhurt(like sensei seth and the karate nerd, at least thats the 2 that i know of)...
I feel like Mike's video was bate for a future collaboration. And this guy took the bite. "Hook line and sinker."
@@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935 idk, mike doesnt seem like that kind of guy... either way that does seem like an interesting collaboration to watch...
@@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935 Gotta get more of thoose sweet Raid placements!
I'm a long-time savate and HEMA practicioner, and i gotta say, I'm hyped for this exchange! Hoping you both take the next step and learn the other school for a video or two!
@Shadiversitygaming__ Scammer
The back & fourth is great.
Animated, enthusiastic, thoughtful discussion.
I'd say the majority of hobbies are unnecessary and stupid to people who don't care about them
@Shadiversitygaming........ SCAM
well i gotta say i was waiting for it when i've watched Mikes video,still i think he was just taking a piss out of HEMA and having fun
In my SCA group we always could pick out larpers. We concluded that the swords are so light and fast that they had improved reflexes.
I think the biggest takeaway is that if you don't know a martial art then it's way too easy to undervalue it. You don't know what skills you're missing out on and if you try to beat them at their own game you very quickly learn that training and experience adds a lot more on top of the core skills (spacing, timing, etc). You'll get heavily punished for all your mistakes and a lot of what you try will be countered.
Ideally, train with what you plan to use. Also, if you can force the opponent to fight in a way they're unfamiliar with then that's going to help you out a lot. I.e. Sword and shield + HEMA will do you wonders against most people.
The martial arts UA-cam world finally crosses over with the medieval youtube world
Watch Mike start reaching out to the slingshot channel. Lol.
@@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935 oh boy
Been watching both you guys for years. The crossover I didn't know I needed!
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Watch both your guys videos regularly - love both of the channels - great stuff all-round.
This may loosely apply to HEMA, but in a way applies to: I've seen a World War II hand-to-hand combat manual where the Brodie helmet was used as a sort of buckler against a knife attack. Has anything like this been done historically? (using similar helmets as a buckler?)
One very important point that both Mike (not sure of his name) and Shad are overlooking, or at least don't seem to take into consideration here, is that there is a very good chance, that the house break in is not done by ONE person. Wasting time with one opponent is a very dumb thing to do when you don't even know for sure that the opponent is the only enemy.
That and your house isn't a sparring room, things are going to get in the way, and you can't back off all around an empty room while trying to not get your head bashed in by a hammer/baseball bat. The longer the fight goes, the more likely you are to end up on the ground with some jackasses laying on you.
It almost always is multiple invaders
True, but this goes back to Shad's point about ending the fight as quickly as possible. The less time spent futzing with one opponent opens you up to deal with the others. If you can take out the first attacker in one or two hits, you'll be ready to move onto the next one.
More attackers will always be a bigger problem. IF you are going to use a sword and shield for defense then you will have to consider this possibility. If you're in a narrow corridor this is actually to your advantage as your opponents won't be able to easily circle you. As long as you can deal with only one threat at a time you are in a much better position than if you are in the open. Don't retreat to the living room, stay in the hallway, block the door. Of course, there may be situations when you simply have no chance at all, and that could be true no matter the weapon system you choose for defense. Always best to go for the most powerful weapon you can, but most people aren't using an AK-47 for home defense, are they. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to point out here.
@@davefletch3063 It's almost always the cops. There have been MANY instances in the US of cops raiding the wrong house, killing pets, killing the homeowner who opens fire, etc. Little old ladies have been shot a dozen or more times because the police didn't announce ("no-knock warrant") and they actually meant to be raiding the house across the street. Same goes with SWATting, where XBox FPS players call in anonymous reports on each other to get their homes raided because they were offended they lost, SWAT breaks in, shoots the dog, arrests the kid who's playing XBox, etc. It's ridiculous, but it happens, and fortunately laws have gone into effect to make false SWATting a big, big crime (you'd hae thought it already was, but no). I don't know what the statistics are because we have no statistics on this, but 1) home invasions are pretty rare in general, 2) if burglars want to steal from you then they will do it during the day when you're away at work or school, and 3) when it's a night time raid it is quite often the cops, whether you did something wrong or not. Please bear all this in mind before you open fire on "home invaders" -- as if the situation isn't already stressful enough. The benefit of the sword here is that it's less lethal and less of a threat, and to use it you have to get CLOSE to the invader, at which point you should be able to see who you're attacking. If the door smashes in and there's a shootout in the dark, you could very well be shooting at police and they could very well be shooting at you and your family, and no one would know what really happened until it was too late. Sometimes it's BETTER to have less lethal force.
icy Mike in a couple of hours from now: "okay nerd, nobody cares". Not knowingly that he is a part of sword tube now (raid shadow legends included)
He does care, he likes weapon martial arts but mainly knife fighting he is part of a knife fight crew.
Without an armor and when someone uses a sword, a real sword, It's hard to get within grapple distance without getting hurt, especially when person with a sword tries to keep distance.
So what I took out of this is that, Mike sees this as good enough for HEMA combat, and Shad sees this as efficient in HEMA combat
I knew Mike opened up a can of worms when he said that
Is HEMA unnecessary and stupid:?
Are videogames unnecessary and stupid?
Are recreational sports (playing sports with friends) unnecessary and stupid?
Are board games unnecessary and stupid?
Is dancing unnecessary and stupid?
No hobbies are literally necessary (whatever he means by "necessary"...). Calling it "stupid" is a matter of his opinion but... unnecessary? WTF he means? Saying that certainly is stupid.
I knew this was coming but man, I didn’t really expect it to come this quickly.
With swords as well as guns: unless you want to put them in a museum and never use them, practice. Being a virtuoso violinist or swimmer can inspire you, but not train you. Train to make sure you don't injure yourself with a misused weapon, and to make sure you don't accidentally injure someone you should not injure.
A weapon, a tool, is a responsibility. If you rely on it, you train with it. If you don't seriously train with it, you don't seriously rely on it.
Lmaoo. I just watched his vid yesterday, and I was wondering if you was gonna reply and boom! Here it is. I love the conversation being had between these communities.
HEMA also includes ringen... which is similar to traditional russian wrestling and is actually very similar to modern MMA
Is it possible that ringen is modern MMA with historical flourishes?
I watched Mikes video first and then I watched Yours. You bring up a very good counter argument. I love watching both of you. I think you guys should meet up and test theories.
Some things I'd like to point out:
In firearms training, as well as training with melee weapons, "weapon retention" is something that students drill on. In other words, no a trained swordsman is NOT going to let you disarm him. He knows what you're planning, and he doesn't want you to do it.
I've done grappling in street fights. Even ground fighting in street fights. People tend to forget something about street fights. Specifically... they're on the STREET. Ever rolled around on hot asphalt in mid July? Because I have, and it is NOT fun. And that's before you bring in the issue of weapons, multiple opponents, etc. Simply put: you want to AVOID going to the ground in a real fight, under most circumstances.
Lastly, Mike's comments about HEMA reminded me of the early days of the UFC. When the standup strikers would complain about the grapplers (particularly the Gracies) who insisted on going to the ground (and making a few good points in the process). But then the standup strikers decided to ACTUALLY TRAIN IN GRAPPLING. Even when they didn't become experts in ground fighting, they knew enough about to AVOID it. At which point the grapplers were forced to start standing up again (and then the Gracies sold the UFC without hesitation, because the main reason for starting the UFC was to advertise for their schools).
No matter the argument, you should never say learning this or that is unnecessary. Information and training is so useful, even if a technique is older than more used techniques. You’d just be increasing your arsenal at that point.
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Nah some things are useless
its really from a guy who brags about mma . the whole point of mma is learning stuff that works from all sorts of martial arts. i question if the bald guy is even that much of a mma guy like he brags so much
@@laisphinto6372 is like 4 martial arts muay thay, boxing, wrestling and Jujitsu you can have karate instead of muay that but these are what works
Oh hell yes! I’ve been waiting for this since I saw Hard to hurt. 😍
yo bro shady thank you for your backhand tips have a good one cheers
A concern I have when using a sword in home defense is most homes have a hallway a little more than 3 feet wide leading to a bedroom. Also, the ceiling is often only 8 feet high. A sword will often hit walls and ceilings in a fight. Even a baseball bat will have an issue in tight spaces.
I see a lot of home defense guys training in a wide open gym, instead of fighting around furniture.
@@randallraze9813 Its not hard to explain. My point was about how the space limits options. Even in shield walls where lateral movement is not available you can still hold your weapon high.
Half sword and the thrusting are going to work, but you are limited to those options.
Also, this is a situation where many defenders have just woken up to someone breaking into their home in the night. Disorientation and panic will be common, and anyone should make sure the training they have will either compensate or take that into account.
@@randallraze9813 you completely missed my point. Look at the dojo Hard2 Hurt uses. Does it look like a bedroom, or a hallway?
No, it is a big open space. If you train in a big open space, then you will not be prepared for a tight space, or furniture getting int he way.
My point was people training for home defense should train in that kind of environment.
gladius and thrust
Being a Modern Classical Fencing practitioner - this isn't new to me. Since we're kind of in the middle - both HEMA people and sport/olympic fencing people make fun of us and like to point how we do things 'wrong' or 'non-optimal' etc. I'm so numb to this discussion I can't be bothered anymore. I know what I'm training and why. I like it this way. It's mostly for fun and health - it's not like I'm gonna walk around with a sabre to defend myself from muggers .🤦♂
How dare thee knave try to mug me? I bite my thumb at you! EN GARDE!
I might poke fun at it, but yeah, do what you love.
Good, you deserve to be treated that way
@@alexmag342 WTF is wrong with you?
would be cool if you did carry a saber tho :)
@@josiahfugal5407 Would it? It's cumbersome, easy to spot, wouldn't be able to carry it to most places, etc. It is an awful self defense weapon.
Emphasis on self defense. Sure, it's an effective weapon if what you want is to assault or kill someone.
It sounds like he means, a couple hours training will be enough to beat an unarmed opponent, but I doubt 95% of people breaking in without some sort of weapon?
Honestly training is important regardless of if you use your fists, a gun or a sword, that will be the deciding factor in most cases, and that is all Hema is when you think about it
As someone who watches both of your channels for quite a while. I would be more inclined to agree with you. Excellent video as always. And God bless you.
Hearing this convo, it sounds like a mix of Martial Arts (like jujitsu) and Hema can work together in shortening the training of either.
And it could be further that, in order to become a great soldier in medieval times, one must train a bit with multiple kinds of weapons to grasp how they might be used, then master the one weapon
HEMA already has grappling though. Yes it is not very well know nor taught but it does exist.
I knew that Shad was going to cover these spicy hot takes the moment I heard them
I think this is a case where, regardless of MMA or HEMA techniques, a person's WILL is everything. Like with firearms, repeated (and versatile) training is very important but, on that day when your life may be at risk, the mental fortitude not to freeze and to competently apply your techniques becomes most important.
Just a quick comment: it would be good to explain your acronyms pretty early on, not everyone knows what "HEMA" stands for (now I do, Historical European Martial Arts in case anyone else is wondering)
This video is really good, it shows one thing, Training matters, the problem they have there is basically they never used Swords, so they don't have the reference of an actual trained person, this is why its good, it puts an counter from someone who used it, the only better is them going to an actual HEMA trained person and doing the same like a control test, to see how many times the "not trained" others can touch them in comparisson
Shad it’s also worth mentioning how exposed the bat wielders hands are. Love your videos man!!!
This is the UA-cam creator feud I didn't know I needed.
As a lover of both these channels, my biggest hope is shad doing mma content and mike doing hema or other swordsmanship content
I'd think this common sense. Training brings advantage in all situations.