I love watching Spirit Tier Lists, because it really shows that it mostly comes down to preference. Save for spirits like Shadows, everyone ranks spirits completely differently, and everyone is right in their own way.
Thanks for the video! I love hearing different perspectives on all the Spirits. And you are so right, it's crazy how balanced the game is, given how asymmetrical everything is.
Great tier list. You are one of the few who identifies just how good fractured sky is (most tier lists grossly underestimate him). One disagreement, silent mist should be bumped up to B tier possibly A.
Your list looks pretty spot on. Though I’d argue that Many Minds and Starlight are currently the strongest spirits that don’t outright break the game. Many Minds due to incredible fear generation, a powerful skip, and utilizing beast events, and Starlight because the minor-oriented builds let you see and utilize a large portion of the minor deck while hitting strong innates that provide defense and blight removal, among other effects. Their strong minor-oriented builds also tend to use some of the same elements that some of the powerful majors need for thresholds.
I agree actually, my opinion on both of those spirits has gone up a lot over the past year as I've played them more. They'll both definitely be bumped up to A tier whenever I get around to redoing this.
Nice list you got there. I mostly agree, but here are some objections . Note (In my group we play in 3 or 4 player on adversaries lvl 4 or higher) Ocean - S tier, definitely the strongest spirit in the game. Deals with all coastals, doesnt need any help. Rampant - B or possibly even C, I just dont get whats so good about him. Sure giving others presence is nice but skipping 2 lands in 4 player game is weak, his offensive innate gets countered by Habsburg, Russia and England and his defensive innate by Habsburg and Sweden Lure - C tier, I guess I still havent figured him out but every game with him I get rolled. He should counter Russia but if there are 3 explorers in his land, the 2 dont participate but the third still deals 2 dmg so you still need to def, AND he ravages every turn so its not really a Russia counter afterall Lightning - D tier, he has no way to get cards, his innate is extremely hard to trigger, truly a terrible spirit without the aspects Wildfire - A tier, can push dahan for other spirits to use while dealing good damage to invaders. The blight it gives is not even that bad since some of the blighted island cards are beneficial
Thanks for the thoughts! Ocean can be very strong and is especially good against England. I think they do struggle in 4+ player games if everyone doesn't commiting to pushing stuff into the ocean (which is admittedly very strong, just difficult for some spirits) and certain matchups like Habsburg, Sweden, and Russia can be awful depending on the board and invader deck order. I think the only matchup Rampant Green struggles into is Russia. Skipping is still really good in 4+ player games because you can stall out your own board while letting other spirits grow faster. I've got a couple videos with them against lvl 4 and 5 adversaries and I never have a problem keeping their board under control; you do need majors eventually though! Lure has a weird interaction with Russia; if you have 3 explorers in a land and one presence they actually don't ravage because 2 of the explorers just don't exist for ravages. I think you can get stuck with Lure where you feel like you don't have enough energy or elements to do what you want. It does have pretty flexible growth, you can go top for majors, bottom with minors, or a mix, but I think you have to commit to having some weak turns so you keep growing and don't get stuck reclaiming every turn. Lightning I agree I might have had too high, I'll take another look at them when I do a new tier list. Wildfire I'm going to take another look at too. Maybe the awful England matchup was too much in my mind at the time.
For Ocean, I think you missed the match up against Scotland lvl 5 or 6, ocean is among the worst spirit to fight them For Lightning, his outright building destroy and fear is valuable for some of the most difficult adversaries, he is probably among the most that can fight top level adversaries (except russia). Haspburg lvl 4 was created probably because of Lightning and Ocean, trivializing England, and the two dominating all the initial 3 base game adversaries at max difficulty.
I understand why you struggle with Shroud of the Silent Mist. It plays very different than any other spirit. Everyone else in my group have played it only once. If this were my tier list it would be comfortably A tier, but its not. He isn't a major power spirit at all in my experience, many minor to take advantage of mists shift and flow to avoid danger and keep fear farm alive and to activate suffocating shroud as fully as possible for light damage to some or to wipe out built up areas. Only need 1 town per after all. Weak early but in my opinion a powerhouse late that can affect half the board in our larger 3-4 person games.
I definitely need to get better with Mist but after struggling through a few more games with them I still think they're pretty weak. Sure the late game might be strong but they need a lot of help to get there, other late game spirits like Vengeance and Keeper can get there on their own. But I'll keep working at them!
@@WhiteBocks I struggle with Vengeance and really any spirit that looses presence and/or causes blight, but the numbers on the innate powers are certainly impressive. Keeper though! amongst the mostly offensive spirits he is my favorite. Yet like most others you are committed to your presence location till very late and I seem to make mistakes or get unlucky so mobility feels like a near necessity now I am used to it. Probably just me but the thought of one little piece of fog separating from the whole and screaming across the island in one turn to suffocate and dissolve that one land volcano just can't reach is fun.
I agree for almost all your choices, they seem to be on the right tier. The only spirit that I strongly disagree is River. It is near the top of A tier at least, it is among the strongest against all adversaries, except England, max level innate is really good, and its not too difficult and too long to get there, then reclaim loop. PS I'm kinda curious how good are the players that put Finder and Fractured in S tier. I can see why they are there, and how they break the game. But they seem very restrained on some match ups, what they can actually do.
I am curious why this video is listed under MTG:A rather than SI. I don't really have time right now, so I kind of just skimmed, but I mostly agree with the list. I will have to go back and hear some of your explanations for a few things. When I come back, I will likely timestamp the video to make it easier to navigate. I hope you revise the list in the context of Nature Incarnate. Having 8 more spirits and 20 new aspects will certainly shake this up a bit.
Great question! I didn't have a game specified so I think UA-cam just chose one itself, poorly lol. Should be fixed now. I should have a new video coming out soon with the Horizons' spirits and I will definitely make a Nature Incarnate one once I have time to sink my teeth into those.
As a Wildfire main, I wanna push back on the C-tier assignment a bit. You said they struggle against higher levels but I've beat BP 6, France 6, and Sweden 6 (Sweden on my first try) with wildfire so far and I've heard that they're great against habsburg as well. From what I've seen, Wildfire does struggle against England in solo, but that's not uncommon haha. This was all in solo and I'd argue wildfire is even stronger in multiplayer where it can help others and others can help him. Yes, wildfire may flip the card for the team faster than normal, but it'll probably out-damage everyone else on the team as well, making up for it. The increased blight allowance of a team game means that wildfire can let loose more and easily solve multi-city lands in the late game if teammates are struggling with a buildup. Yes, a few combos might be rough (Fangs or keeper pairings sound like a bad idea), I think those are few and far between enough not to be an issue.
Wildfire is pretty good against BP6, France 6, and Habsburg 6. Sweden is weird because that matchup is super swingy, you can win or lose very early depending on the invader deck. So yeah, maybe saying they're bad against higher levels in general is an exaggeration but the England matchup is soooo rough-they might be even worse against England than Base Shadows. I do enjoy Wildfire a lot and there are a few pairings with them and the new Horizons spirits that I'm excited to try two handed. I probably won't make a new list until after Nature Incarnate comes out but maybe that and some Wildfire aspects will help change their placement!
Rampant Green just never allows anything to build or ravage. I hardly even use him to help my allied spirits grow faster. Just for that crowed control he can just lock it all down... unless ofcourse you get a blighted island, but as long as you don't play with a fire crazy Wildfire or Volcano you should be good 😆
It does get a little harder to lock everything down if all of the explores are Mountains or Sands but yeah, Green is super strong even outside of helping allies!
Good question! Tentatively I would put Rising Heat of Stone and Sand & Eyes Watch From the Trees in A Tier, Fathomless Mud of the Swamp & Sun-Bright Whirlwind in B, and Devouring Teeth Lurk Underfoot in C (possibly B). I need a few more games with all of them to settle on that but that seems like the right order for them.
@@WhiteBocks awesome! I’d actually 100% agree with all those rankings. They are more simple to play but do pack a punch - especially rising heat and eyes watch
did bro just say Finder/Volcano Habsburg 4 was a problem? .. OK IMA cut him some slack seems like he is new. Finder to S tier for me, as a Finder player, don't agree with.. short of playing with Stone. Yet after Stone/Finders good partner list definitely includes Volcano near the top. .... watching rest of vid other opinions on hold.. Agree on Lure , EVERY choice matters down the line. Huge turn one wrecking your turns 2 & 3 is a massive thing. Or turn 6 top or bottom decisions all matter next turn. probably S tier for sheer power of Beckon+ Forsake innate alone!, "Can't tell if they have any bad matchups, maybe france?" Beckon + innates DESTROYS France! Many Minds B tier ? off the rails here. Defend + Fear breaks the game. Defend alone B , fear alone maybe B(BoDan) or C(Shroud solo) but Many Fear + Defend ? A or up to S maybe. takes the fear weakness(defend) and defend weakness(fear) and throws them out . Ocean in games of 3+ without dedicated controls = energy starved and unsatisfied teammates, especially when that coastal card comes up. They have been covering your inland for 3ish turns then coasts and you have like 3-4 Slows that can't help enough on the 9+ coastal lands on build. Snek in S is almost as bad as Many in B. Sliding down to A maybe but B or C feels better for Snek Shadows Innate is just Sooooo bad and over costed for the effect , 100% agree F all the way The opposite of Ocean, Shroud gets stronger with more players. Anyone that needs to move plastic in to Shroud lands that are going to blight anyway are fine. any extra energy/card plays/proliferations funneled Shroud's way are more of a force multiplier as a late game spirit. heck even just a close land with a not quite dead town amps Shroud more than realized. [ with the stranded aspect landing WELL after this vid.] Shroud is still way better multi than the solo drag down this vid imparts Stone to A is close but the truth but definitely S. Solo nothing gets through , in multi player so many combos work too well with Stone. Finder/Stone = WIN pretty much no matter what. Vengeance is a tough one , depends more on draws C tier I agree with as a whole. Get a couple cheap Fire/Animal dual draws and you wreck shop. Yet when you do the math as to how often that happens C tier is right. On top of that disease cards all seeming to be overcosted including, especially Fetid Breath being majorly over costded 2 cost slow +1 fear with targeting restriction where as the vast majority of unique power cards are significantly undercosted ( boon of vigor OR rivers Bounty , Favors called, Gift of prolif [LOL] , swallow the land dwellers, Prey on the builders [don't build, PERIOD] at 1 cost slow plus beast gather vs 2 cost add disease that only stops one build with +1 fear.) I'll stop the undercosted there before getting to Beckon which is like GOD tier undercosted. {swallowed by the wilderness might need its own tier over God after considering cost and pairing with Beckon and Lures innates} all making Fetid Breath seem a forget-for-Major-ASAP card on a spirit that can't afford majors short of a seriously odd board/explore/edgecase events play. Vital D tier ...THANK YOU! I hate Vital with its slow growth , WAY over-costed uniques, only passable special and way too difficult to hit for the trouble innate. In base games solo feels like GOD tier but when you get in to anything beyond base feels way to slow and/or like have to dig AND pray for a good/life-saving Major every other turn while treading water makes this spirit feel sad after the first or second game ever played. Last thought : most think Ocean inverse is Lure but that is false with Lure having way better cards/ abilities to combat its weaknesses where as Ocean leans way more in to being better at its strengths. Volcano = inverse of Ocean is probably more fitting. yet volcano have a slight bit more control and ocean has a significantly more power in its sphere of strength if played right for the board state.
Admittedly I haven't played Lure against higher level Scotland, just level 2/3, but it doesn't feel that bad. You do have to focus a lot on your left innate to get rid of those coastal towns and cities and draw them inland.
I love watching Spirit Tier Lists, because it really shows that it mostly comes down to preference. Save for spirits like Shadows, everyone ranks spirits completely differently, and everyone is right in their own way.
Thanks for the video! I love hearing different perspectives on all the Spirits. And you are so right, it's crazy how balanced the game is, given how asymmetrical everything is.
Great tier list. You are one of the few who identifies just how good fractured sky is (most tier lists grossly underestimate him). One disagreement, silent mist should be bumped up to B tier possibly A.
Your list looks pretty spot on. Though I’d argue that Many Minds and Starlight are currently the strongest spirits that don’t outright break the game. Many Minds due to incredible fear generation, a powerful skip, and utilizing beast events, and Starlight because the minor-oriented builds let you see and utilize a large portion of the minor deck while hitting strong innates that provide defense and blight removal, among other effects. Their strong minor-oriented builds also tend to use some of the same elements that some of the powerful majors need for thresholds.
I agree actually, my opinion on both of those spirits has gone up a lot over the past year as I've played them more. They'll both definitely be bumped up to A tier whenever I get around to redoing this.
Nice list you got there. I mostly agree, but here are some objections . Note (In my group we play in 3 or 4 player on adversaries lvl 4 or higher)
Ocean - S tier, definitely the strongest spirit in the game. Deals with all coastals, doesnt need any help.
Rampant - B or possibly even C, I just dont get whats so good about him. Sure giving others presence is nice but skipping 2 lands in 4 player game is weak, his offensive innate gets countered by Habsburg, Russia and England and his defensive innate by Habsburg and Sweden
Lure - C tier, I guess I still havent figured him out but every game with him I get rolled. He should counter Russia but if there are 3 explorers in his land, the 2 dont participate but the third still deals 2 dmg so you still need to def, AND he ravages every turn so its not really a Russia counter afterall
Lightning - D tier, he has no way to get cards, his innate is extremely hard to trigger, truly a terrible spirit without the aspects
Wildfire - A tier, can push dahan for other spirits to use while dealing good damage to invaders. The blight it gives is not even that bad since some of the blighted island cards are beneficial
Thanks for the thoughts!
Ocean can be very strong and is especially good against England. I think they do struggle in 4+ player games if everyone doesn't commiting to pushing stuff into the ocean (which is admittedly very strong, just difficult for some spirits) and certain matchups like Habsburg, Sweden, and Russia can be awful depending on the board and invader deck order.
I think the only matchup Rampant Green struggles into is Russia. Skipping is still really good in 4+ player games because you can stall out your own board while letting other spirits grow faster. I've got a couple videos with them against lvl 4 and 5 adversaries and I never have a problem keeping their board under control; you do need majors eventually though!
Lure has a weird interaction with Russia; if you have 3 explorers in a land and one presence they actually don't ravage because 2 of the explorers just don't exist for ravages. I think you can get stuck with Lure where you feel like you don't have enough energy or elements to do what you want. It does have pretty flexible growth, you can go top for majors, bottom with minors, or a mix, but I think you have to commit to having some weak turns so you keep growing and don't get stuck reclaiming every turn.
Lightning I agree I might have had too high, I'll take another look at them when I do a new tier list.
Wildfire I'm going to take another look at too. Maybe the awful England matchup was too much in my mind at the time.
@@WhiteBocks Oh so we've been playing Lure wrong the whole time :D Can't wait to try him properly
For Ocean, I think you missed the match up against Scotland lvl 5 or 6, ocean is among the worst spirit to fight them
For Lightning, his outright building destroy and fear is valuable for some of the most difficult adversaries, he is probably among the most that can fight top level adversaries (except russia).
Haspburg lvl 4 was created probably because of Lightning and Ocean, trivializing England, and the two dominating all the initial 3 base game adversaries at max difficulty.
I understand why you struggle with Shroud of the Silent Mist. It plays very different than any other spirit. Everyone else in my group have played it only once. If this were my tier list it would be comfortably A tier, but its not. He isn't a major power spirit at all in my experience, many minor to take advantage of mists shift and flow to avoid danger and keep fear farm alive and to activate suffocating shroud as fully as possible for light damage to some or to wipe out built up areas. Only need 1 town per after all. Weak early but in my opinion a powerhouse late that can affect half the board in our larger 3-4 person games.
I definitely need to get better with Mist but after struggling through a few more games with them I still think they're pretty weak. Sure the late game might be strong but they need a lot of help to get there, other late game spirits like Vengeance and Keeper can get there on their own. But I'll keep working at them!
@@WhiteBocks I struggle with Vengeance and really any spirit that looses presence and/or causes blight, but the numbers on the innate powers are certainly impressive. Keeper though! amongst the mostly offensive spirits he is my favorite. Yet like most others you are committed to your presence location till very late and I seem to make mistakes or get unlucky so mobility feels like a near necessity now I am used to it. Probably just me but the thought of one little piece of fog separating from the whole and screaming across the island in one turn to suffocate and dissolve that one land volcano just can't reach is fun.
I agree for almost all your choices, they seem to be on the right tier.
The only spirit that I strongly disagree is River.
It is near the top of A tier at least, it is among the strongest against all adversaries, except England, max level innate is really good, and its not too difficult and too long to get there, then reclaim loop.
PS I'm kinda curious how good are the players that put Finder and Fractured in S tier.
I can see why they are there, and how they break the game. But they seem very restrained on some match ups, what they can actually do.
I am curious why this video is listed under MTG:A rather than SI.
I don't really have time right now, so I kind of just skimmed, but I mostly agree with the list. I will have to go back and hear some of your explanations for a few things.
When I come back, I will likely timestamp the video to make it easier to navigate. I hope you revise the list in the context of Nature Incarnate. Having 8 more spirits and 20 new aspects will certainly shake this up a bit.
Great question! I didn't have a game specified so I think UA-cam just chose one itself, poorly lol. Should be fixed now. I should have a new video coming out soon with the Horizons' spirits and I will definitely make a Nature Incarnate one once I have time to sink my teeth into those.
As a Wildfire main, I wanna push back on the C-tier assignment a bit. You said they struggle against higher levels but I've beat BP 6, France 6, and Sweden 6 (Sweden on my first try) with wildfire so far and I've heard that they're great against habsburg as well. From what I've seen, Wildfire does struggle against England in solo, but that's not uncommon haha. This was all in solo and I'd argue wildfire is even stronger in multiplayer where it can help others and others can help him. Yes, wildfire may flip the card for the team faster than normal, but it'll probably out-damage everyone else on the team as well, making up for it. The increased blight allowance of a team game means that wildfire can let loose more and easily solve multi-city lands in the late game if teammates are struggling with a buildup. Yes, a few combos might be rough (Fangs or keeper pairings sound like a bad idea), I think those are few and far between enough not to be an issue.
Wildfire is pretty good against BP6, France 6, and Habsburg 6. Sweden is weird because that matchup is super swingy, you can win or lose very early depending on the invader deck. So yeah, maybe saying they're bad against higher levels in general is an exaggeration but the England matchup is soooo rough-they might be even worse against England than Base Shadows. I do enjoy Wildfire a lot and there are a few pairings with them and the new Horizons spirits that I'm excited to try two handed. I probably won't make a new list until after Nature Incarnate comes out but maybe that and some Wildfire aspects will help change their placement!
Rampant Green just never allows anything to build or ravage. I hardly even use him to help my allied spirits grow faster.
Just for that crowed control he can just lock it all down... unless ofcourse you get a blighted island, but as long as you don't play with a fire crazy Wildfire or Volcano you should be good 😆
It does get a little harder to lock everything down if all of the explores are Mountains or Sands but yeah, Green is super strong even outside of helping allies!
How would you rate the 5 new spirits from horizons?
Good question! Tentatively I would put Rising Heat of Stone and Sand & Eyes Watch From the Trees in A Tier, Fathomless Mud of the Swamp & Sun-Bright Whirlwind in B, and Devouring Teeth Lurk Underfoot in C (possibly B). I need a few more games with all of them to settle on that but that seems like the right order for them.
@@WhiteBocks awesome! I’d actually 100% agree with all those rankings. They are more simple to play but do pack a punch - especially rising heat and eyes watch
did bro just say Finder/Volcano Habsburg 4 was a problem? .. OK IMA cut him some slack seems like he is new. Finder to S tier for me, as a Finder player, don't agree with.. short of playing with Stone.
Yet after Stone/Finders good partner list definitely includes Volcano near the top.
.... watching rest of vid other opinions on hold..
Agree on Lure , EVERY choice matters down the line. Huge turn one wrecking your turns 2 & 3 is a massive thing.
Or turn 6 top or bottom decisions all matter next turn. probably S tier for sheer power of Beckon+ Forsake innate alone!, "Can't tell if they have any bad matchups, maybe france?" Beckon + innates DESTROYS France!
Many Minds B tier ? off the rails here. Defend + Fear breaks the game. Defend alone B , fear alone maybe B(BoDan) or C(Shroud solo) but Many Fear + Defend ? A or up to S maybe. takes the fear weakness(defend) and defend weakness(fear) and throws them out .
Ocean in games of 3+ without dedicated controls = energy starved and unsatisfied teammates, especially when that coastal card comes up. They have been covering your inland for 3ish turns then coasts and you have like 3-4 Slows that can't help enough on the 9+ coastal lands on build.
Snek in S is almost as bad as Many in B. Sliding down to A maybe but B or C feels better for Snek
Shadows Innate is just Sooooo bad and over costed for the effect , 100% agree F all the way
The opposite of Ocean, Shroud gets stronger with more players. Anyone that needs to move plastic in to Shroud lands that are going to blight anyway are fine. any extra energy/card plays/proliferations funneled Shroud's way are more of a force multiplier as a late game spirit. heck even just a close land with a not quite dead town amps Shroud more than realized. [ with the stranded aspect landing WELL after this vid.] Shroud is still way better multi than the solo drag down this vid imparts
Stone to A is close but the truth but definitely S. Solo nothing gets through , in multi player so many combos work too well with Stone. Finder/Stone = WIN pretty much no matter what.
Vengeance is a tough one , depends more on draws C tier I agree with as a whole.
Get a couple cheap Fire/Animal dual draws and you wreck shop.
Yet when you do the math as to how often that happens C tier is right.
On top of that disease cards all seeming to be overcosted including, especially Fetid Breath being majorly over costded 2 cost slow +1 fear with targeting restriction
where as the vast majority of unique power cards are significantly undercosted ( boon of vigor OR rivers Bounty , Favors called, Gift of prolif [LOL] , swallow the land dwellers, Prey on the builders [don't build, PERIOD] at 1 cost slow plus beast gather vs 2 cost add disease that only stops one build with +1 fear.) I'll stop the undercosted there before getting to Beckon which is like GOD tier undercosted. {swallowed by the wilderness might need its own tier over God after considering cost and pairing with Beckon and Lures innates} all making Fetid Breath seem a forget-for-Major-ASAP card on a spirit that can't afford majors short of a seriously odd board/explore/edgecase events play.
Vital D tier ...THANK YOU! I hate Vital with its slow growth , WAY over-costed uniques, only passable special and way too difficult to hit for the trouble innate. In base games solo feels like GOD tier but when you get in to anything beyond base feels way to slow and/or like have to dig AND pray for a good/life-saving Major every other turn while treading water makes this spirit feel sad after the first or second game ever played.
Last thought : most think Ocean inverse is Lure but that is false with Lure having way better cards/ abilities to combat its weaknesses where as Ocean leans way more in to being better at its strengths. Volcano = inverse of Ocean is probably more fitting. yet volcano have a slight bit more control and ocean has a significantly more power in its sphere of strength if played right for the board state.
Lure no bad matchups. This was before Scotland?
Admittedly I haven't played Lure against higher level Scotland, just level 2/3, but it doesn't feel that bad. You do have to focus a lot on your left innate to get rid of those coastal towns and cities and draw them inland.
This discord you said in the video, its for online play? can i enter?
Yep! It's a public discord called Second Wave. People do set up online games there.