The most interesting thing is the fact they would have made a movie about this game called "Sonic the Hedgehog: Wonder of the World". Imagine just what would have happened.
probably the same thing that happens every time there's a popular UA-cam video about it: it gets overhyped to death, people think it is better than it was without even playing, and play the blame game without contextualizing why the thing got canned in the first place. Obviously the devs health and console lifespan played a factor, but it also was awful and gave every playtester motion sickness. 🤣
@@geoffabbythomas7293 I don't believe so? A cheap documentary about a video game has the same impact as a random video essay, even if there's potentially less exposure. Most sonic fans believe whatever they're told as long as the person speaking has enough influence. A film claiming X-treme is some lost wonder is no different from one more video essay claiming the same thing. X-treme was overhyped. Doomed from the start. Had no clear direction. Was constantly getting scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up. And, to a much more insigificant amount, was internally sabotaged from day 1. Docuwriters and Video Essayists gloss over the issues with this game because mythos, excitement, potential, and a legend is far more exciting than the simple truth that X-Treme was so bad that not even SEGA wanted to release it.
@@Hard_Pretzel it would have been an actual movie that was a tie in for the game not a documentary like your video was (not trying to disrespect your video)
@@geoffabbythomas7293 the tie-in film would have had the same effect if not worse. Many games have tie in films (or in some cases, the tie in films get tie in games as well) Take Street Fighter The Movie: The Game. If the movie were received well, and it were for a cancelled game, people would be overhyping the game. Just how if the movie were cancelled people would overhype the lost film. Lost media by nature is intriguing even if in many cases some things were lost for a reason. Obviously SFtMtG came out, and SFtM still came out; and would genuinely have been the best possible scenario for Wonder of the World and X-Treme--a garbage game and a garbage film that's only a cult classic to those that appreciate the novelty. I have two copies of the game on Saturn, and the film. I'm not saying NOBODY *could* enjoy bad films or bad games, but having a bad game and a bad film is not the instant recipe for free success.
This is why I'm more focussed on the Sonic Ringworlds fan game for Saturn. It's more like the fully 3D Sega Saturn era Sonic game we always wanted but never got. The development for it got off to a rough start due to some drama amongst the team but from what I last heard from them on the SegaXtreme forum, things are back on track. And I think they may still looking for more people to help with the project.
As cool as a Saturn 3D sonic could have been, it absolutely would have paled in comparison to what we got on the next generation of consoles anyway. It's awesome to see the fan support reimagining what could have been; but it's very clear the limitations of the hardware, especially when these fan projects build saturn playable releases. 😂
@@Hard_Pretzel Well tbf, the demo they released for Sonic Ringworlds IS in very early stages of development. In the build they released, there's just a test level with a few platforms and a non-killable enemy. But that model for sonic looks rather promising. They still have a long way to go. I'd say the only limitations were time since the Saturn takes much longer to learn and develop for. But if what I imagine they're going for were to release near the beginning of the Saturn's life, I'd say it might've given Mario 64 a run for its money. Assuming it plays like Sonic Adventure. I mean, of course anything developed for a system is going to pale in comparison to games on its successor. It's supposed to do that. At least back then anyway. I feel we've kinda hit a dead end in terms of graphics. These days I'm more focused on the fun factor more than graphics.
@@randybutternubs4647 oh definitely. it's just important to keep in mind with 20+ years of console study and documentation that weren't around during the initial console launch, it's why homebrew titles can do things that were never seen on original hardware or how critical errors can be fixed with a simple programming edit. "What could have been" is definitely a stretch when it comes to these games, because the best we had without the benefit of hindsight and advanced development information was nowhere close to what could have released. Homebrew and fangames are great, but definitely not indicative of what could have been.
@@Hard_Pretzel Well I really meant by extension. But yeah, with those conditions you mentioned it never could have been. "What could've been" with those conditions are quite limited like you said. But "what if" Sega didn't fumble the Saturn at just about every turn? Maybe then I can see Sonic Ringsworld coming out for that time period in general. Well that, and giving the Saturn a little more time to cook instead of just rushing it out the door like they did. Even Sega of Japan, the almighty gate keepers of Saturn, found themselves stumped at times due to the Saturn's incomplete documentation. But what if that didn't happen? I believe the 20+ years of documentation we now have (and counting) is closest we'll ever get to seeing "What would a good time line for the Saturn look like?" I'd pay good money to see a good time line for the 3DO. lol. That would be interesting.
@@randybutternubs4647 Most consoles rarely have complete documentation at launch; the SNES for example only recently was discovered to be capable of true RTX using some specific workaround. The issue was primarily a lack of interest and support in the system, primarily by SEGA of America as out west they were so deadset on hyping up a doomed-from-the-start Sonic title while snubbing all the arcade ports, rpgs, and shmups that Japan was getting in droves. Even when Japan devs struggled, there was at least support from SEGA (Japan) to get these games made anyway; it's part of why Sony has such an easy time swiping developers, because the playstation was only moderately easier to build for--but boy did Sony have MONEY and an audience that was ready to buy anything. And if you were planning on releasing your game WORLDWIDE, why go to SEGA when the American region would deliberately and actively hinder your progress in order to make room for Sonic? Imagine fumbling Final Fantasy 7 because you think RPGs suck 😂
key words here are *much* and the very next line about how bug would stack up against everything available at the time 😅 I do love some nights and panzer dragoon. (I also love a lot of the other launch window Saturn titles) Bug was just an easy "top 10 must-have" game because you would be hard pressed to find more than 10 games (at the time) with as global appeal as a silly goofy wisecracking platformer. More like a "win by default" situation, when "winning" is just getting carried by lack of selection! sorry for the confusion!
200% considering just how many "bad" games that still come out, I will never understand why anyone thinks X-Treme even had a shot when they couldn't even stick with a single concept throughout each build of development.
Sonic x-treme would have been well received during the Saturn lifespan, but sonic fans now would have called it mediocre. In my opinion, sonic x-treme would’ve been able to compete against crash bandicoot 1
I kinda wish you talked about this more! Great topic! Glad to see someone point out how fun Lost World can be from a speedrun POV (Game is busted lmao) Now excuse me while I scrub through the video to catch any jokes I missed.
I have enough cutouts from this to make a more indepth look on X-Treme specifically, but honestly? Anything to be said about this game has already been said by someone else 😂 Definitely no shortage of sonic video essays out there! 🤣
@@suns3t_t0wn honestly a lot of great games came out only because this one didn't. I love 3D Blast Saturn, and R of course; but honestly who knows if adventure would have even existed 🤷🏻♀️
im a tiny account, and I've been too busy to upload for quite some time, so my exposure is definitely quite limited. I'm glad you enjoyed it though! Thanks for watching!
@@JohnSmith-ff2pb Honestly? With Sonic games (including adventure) having a bad enough time being remembered well (even when they JUST come out) I REALLY wouldn't trust Sonic X-Treme to be part of the legacy. Ain't no way if ADVENTURE "didn't age well" X-Treme would have even been considered PLAYABLE 😂
@@esdrasImayInotguy3481 Funnily enough, Sonic 3D Blast (and by extension Blast GGMS), Jam, and Sonic R are also technically Classic Sonic titles that only came out because X-Treme got canned--Normally I'd say the comparison is invalid but both games were made by contracted studios. Travelers Tales especially however, was a much more capable studio than that of the X-Treme team(s) and given they were based in the UK, didn't have to deal with the same anti-SEGA-USA nonsense coming from Japan. I'm definitely biased but until Mania, Sonic R was HARD carrying classic legacy X-Treme would have almost certainly destroyed 🤣🤣
Also, I think if Sonic X-Treme was more like the little 3D area we got in Sonic Jam, (which, fun fact, that 3D gameplay area was itself, a prototype of what would become Sonic Adventure) then maybe Sonic X-Treme would probably have been better recieved. After all, it is my personal belief that Sega's biggest mistake with X-Treme was not having Sonic Team themselves develop it, even though they've shown they can make good 3D games with NiGHTS: Into Dreams.
I used to think that as well! but then you see the reception towards Sonic Jam, and it definitely was such a far cry to what ended up becoming of adventure. The Jam minigames are cute and all, and a great start, but you can definitely see why they scrapped it for a more powerful system. Sonic Team makes stinkers all the time, so I really wouldn't put too much faith in just a name alone. Especially because they were busy with a number of other projects at the time. Especially when pre-console release, all their focus was on NiGHTS, and as soon as that game came out, even if they sent every person they had on the mystery sonic game, they would not have a title ready by the time xtreme was supposed to release. They also had other projects such as burning rangers, and after that put all their effort into the Dreamcast with samba de amiigo, chuchu rocket, and what would become phantasy star online.
@@Hard_Pretzel @Hard_Pretzel "Sonic Team makes stinkers all the time" Sounds a little pessimistic there. I think they've made some good games every now and then! Like Frontiers for example. I personally feel that one is 3D sonic at his absolute BEST. Also, notice how a lot of the really bad stinkers are made from people who *aren't* Sonic Team. (Sonic Boom comes to mind) And another thing, after seeing a bit more gameplay from X-Treme Unity and Z-Streme, I've noticed a few things, number 1, the fish-eye effect was a BAD IDEA. the game does not look good, and I can definitely see it getting a lot of dizziness and headache complaints from some people. While I don't think it would have been "Electric Soldier Porygon" levels of bad, I can definitely see it causing a lot of problems. And number 2, the game is purely a platformer. What do I mean by this? The levels have no space for Sonic to run fast. Sonic is first and foremost all about speed and going fast, and the four or so levels that I've seen lack any space for Sonic to run. They don't even have loops! And they're all very spherical and cuboidal in shape. I'm glad Adventure fixed this, since it shows STI fundamentally misunderstood Sonic's gameplay mechanics.
@@firesonic1010 Oh for sure, I only say "stinkers" because the general youtube population has a very negative view towards most sonic games. Personally some of my favorite games are the ones that are most-hated (Lost World is probably one of my favorite Sonic Team titles--despite everyone and their dog hating it here! 😂) But by that same regard, funnily enough I'd MUCH rather play 3D Blast (Travelers Tales, especially the Saturn Version) than play through Generations (Sonic Team, worst version being the PC version imo). So I wouldn't fully discount licensed developers, just how I wouldn't fully trust Sonic Team to deliver something I would like. Frontiers is a fantastic game, but definitely far from what I'm looking for. And yeah, after playing all the demos and pre-builds of X-Treme, INCLUDING games similar to x-treme (and games that inspired X-Treme) it definitely was NOT a good project. That fisheye lense is such a pain after a while--it's a cool gimmick at first, but so much better to play without it. It also sucked that the lead designer got terminally sick (but thankfully survived) during development and I would not have wanted a game with a bodycount! 🤣 Definitely glad the game got canned and Sonic got adapted into a much more fitting game. Adventure isn't my favorite Sonic game, but is a MUCH better 3D adaptation than something like X-Treme tried to be.
@@Hard_Pretzel if anything, the Dreamcast and Adventure should have been what we got back in the day in place of the Saturn. Although the Saturn does still hold a place in my heart as my first console ever.
@@firesonic1010 personally I just really love the Saturn controller (MK2) absolutely the perfect D-pad, and home to some of my favorite games. Sadly the tech for the dreamcast just wasnt as available and would have really knocked the price way higher in 1995. Dreamcast is awesome though.
Man I had Bug! on a Saturn demo disc as a kid and I thought it was so cool. I guess I've never put that together with my being a Lost World apologist, but there it is. I'd watch the hell out of a Lost World video.
you're not alone there! I love Lost World too! I'm actually planning a full video for it eventually. This was a sort of test run to see how many LW fans are out there
haha yeah, it's on my list. Unfortunately there's not tons on it so my research on Extreme most likely get lumped together with other videos here and there as silly sight-gags.
The got cancelled because of Sega's bad management, the team's lack of experience and the numerous hardships they faced during development. Sonic Xtreme could have been a great game.
it wasn't just that, but the game itself rarely playtested well. Reports of motion sickness and poor platforming ability from the fisheye lense alone would have tanked the game. Especially when Sonic Adventure didn't even come out perfect, at best Xtreme would have been a cute novelty, or another game in a long line of "didn't age wells" You can tell the game lacked an identity when every month a new story was pushed, and a new engine was developed. None of the tech demos shared much in common. If you enjoy the buggy prototypes, more power to you, but when we have SEGA titles like beast rider and project altered beast still release, there's really not much doubt X-Treme was far from a workable state at that level of hardware with that development team. Thinking the game would have released well, especially in 96/97, is wishful thinking at best.
I've played the fan demos and prototypes and still think it's a cool idea that warranted exploration. I really dig it. Deffo shouldn't have been the main Sonic game on the console, but It could have been a neat little spin-off. If Sega actually had decent plans for something more akin to Adventure earlier it could have worked. Oh and yeah we read the manuals. I'm a fossil.
*The level designer for Sonic Xtreme is Hirozaku Yasuhara. Sonic 2's level designer. Also Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic R's level designer.* The levels were designed based on Saturn's limitations. Obviously Saturn cannot create a game on Sonic Adventure's scale
I've been saying this for years now. Nothing about the gameplay- the most important aspect of a game- looks remotely fun or pleasant. Even with more polish. The Saturn could never have handled a fast paced 3D Sonic game. Sonic Jam's mini world was just way too slow to be made into a full game, and if they tried to, by the time it got finished, it would've been the 6th gen of gaming already and way behind. The environments are even more bare and lifeless than Mario 64's. Despite how successful and loved that game was, it had the reliable starpower of Mario who hadn't really had any bad games at that point and of course the gameplay and novelty of being one of the first 3D platformers made up for bare environments. The camera angles of Xtreme just look nauseating. The level layouts are confusing. And if the game had been released, it could've been the Bubzy 3D before Bubzy 3D even existed, and killed the Sonic franchise altogether. It would be put on "worst game" lists everywhere. And people decades later would remember Sonic as a character who had a few good 2D games, then the 3D killed him entirely. Say what you want about the Adventures and games after, but they're far from terrible and only made the franchise more popular. All in all, it's good that the game got cancelled, but very sad that it ultimately ended up being what killed Sega out of the hardware market.
I wouldn't say Mario had *NO* stinkers, especially pre-3D--licensed spinoffs (Mario is Missing), halfassed ports (Allstars), and reskins (Mario Bros 2), etc; but definitely nothing to the extent of what Sonic X-Treme was genuinely shaping up to be. As you said, those camera angles are simply sickening; devs and testers alike reporting motionsickness for the sake of that overhyped "fisheye" lense. There's a reason every single build of the game looks night-and-day different: IT WAS. There was no identity to X-Treme. But because SEGA of America put everything they had into a SINGLE SONIC GAME, instead of doing what SoE and SoJ were doing (you know, ACTUALLY MAKING GAMES) the console really started tanking. We didn't even get ports or translations of well over half the saturn library! Even **IF** Sonic X-Treme came out, I would have preferred any number of shmups, arcade fighters, or RPGs that are STILL locked to Japan. Sonic X-Treme was genuinely just a huge waste of time and put actual lives at risk. But people wanna think it was all big bad sega pulling the plug on the greatest sonic game of all time instead of literally saving us from something that would have killed the franchise🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel I will say that SoJ didn't exactly help Sonic X-treme, but was it their job to do so? Perhaps they should have never let SoA handle Sonic games... it seems something always went wrong when this happened. Even when the games turned out good, like Sonic 2, so much content had to be cut, and we got a very different game than what was initially planned. Letting SoA handle the first 3D Sonic game was a huge mistake in and of itself. The plug had to be pulled because it was too far gone. It didn't need intervention, it needed a complete overhaul. Ther NiGHTS engine would not have even saved it, if that story is actually true, since nobody knows the actual truth. Looking back at any 3D games of that era, none of them were very fast paced at all. Maybe some in arcades? But on home consoles, all were too slow to replicate a Sonic experience. It just wasn't the time for 3D Sonic. Also I will say, I can't count those Mario games as bad. All-Stars was well-received when it was released (especially since it was the only way for non-Japanese players to play Lost Levels). SMB2-J was of course only Japanese and it seems it was received well there, despite just being a kaizo hack of the first game. SMB2-USA was just a re-skin but one of a game we hadn't gotten previously, and again, well received at the time. Mario is Missing is barely a footnote. Mario just had way longer to establish a good reputation- since he dominated the 8-bit era that Sega could not establish themselves in internationally. His first 3D outing would've had to be Bubzy levels of bad to be cancelled completely. Even if it ended up sub-par and lower mid, fans would've likely accepted it.
@@aclstudios SoJ actively didn't WANT a sonic game at the time. They saw sonic (rightfully so) as more of a fad/side-series to the company as a whole instead of "Yes, this is the only franchise of ours that matters or is profitable." it makes sense why SoJ didn't want to help on a Sonic game because why would you stake your ENTIRE COMPANY for the sake of a blue rat having moderate success? The ACTUAL internal politics of SEGA vs what people THINK happened at the time could be a whole video in itself 😂 (and a video WAY too serious and detailed for my style lol) It's really telling when Japan was getting banger after banger, lots of great arcade ports, lots of RPGs, puzzles, and overall a solid console (albeit pricier thanks to Sony's undercutting) while SoA was out here hyping up X-Treme to the point they were slapping Sonic into a karate uniform and putting him on popsicles while there were gaps of MONTHS without even so much as a third party game announcement! SEGA didn't and honestly STILL doesn't need to focus solely on Sonic, especially when that focus takes away from their other franchises, even if more recently they aren't as well known or as popular as Sonic. While I definitely enjoyed 3D Blast, Labyrinth, (DEFINITELY) Sonic R, and a handful of Sonics other early 3D and "3D" outings; it very much is hard to translate the same feeling of speed into 3D--even Adventure and the boost games fall short in a lot of ways. But even comparing a game like Sonic R that was built over the course of just 8 months from a F1 racing game from a licensed for-hire studio in Europe to X-Treme really emphasizes the sharp difference in direction and potential--even if you HATE Sonic R at the very least it's functional and has an identity and won't give you motionsickness after half a level. I definitely did love a lot of the early marios (ESPECIALLY Mario is missing funnily enough lol), despite being a bit...unusual; I just brought them up as they did have their detractors. It's just a very interesting case as licensed or spinoff titles for """"good"""" franchises get a free pass (Mario is Missing or Literally any CD-i Game; or more recently Links Crossbow Training, Federation Force, DSi Shovelware, Other M, Triforce Heroes, Hey Pikmin, or just about any recent pokemon game) and these games are quickly forgotten or "don't count" even IF these games are genuinely the worst parts of the franchise (again, personally I love these oddballs, but I understand where the hate CAME from, even if people don't talk about them much now.) meanwhile Sonic consistently has their flops thrown in their face, or games that WERE received well, suddenly were "never good" just because it's cool to dunk on sonic; or what's worse, overhyping games that would have been awful only to further attack sonic without even playing these games first. I'm sure you understand how hard it is to enjoy sonic without getting lumped in with "sonic fans" 😂
@@Hard_Pretzel That makes perfect sense and maybe SoA should've went with that philosophy then. They were too busy looking to be the next Mario and dethrone Mario I suppose. It is a shame we no longer have many Sega franchises, and so many have been left behind. Tbh Sony is guilty of doing the same thing- they no longer have many exclusives like they used to. It seems really only Nintendo is holding onto theirs. It's hard to find reliable sources on what really happened at Sega, because every source says something different. The most recent update was Naka saying that he was never even aware of the NiGHTS source code being used thing, making it sound like *that* whole story was fake. Maybe we'll never know the truth. I also will compare the focus on Sonic as opposed to the SNES and N64, where it seemed so many series had their time to shine and often times, Mario was not the main one at all. Only one main game on both SNES and N64, while SNES had Metroid, DK, Zelda,... N64 had all the Rare titles. And PlayStation had almost everything. I agree that Sonic R, while far from perfect, was at least playable and some quick fun. I always wonder if a platformer could've be made in that style, but I feel the controls just weren't precise enough for it to work. I also enjoyed 3D Blast for what it was. It was a decent distraction before we got Adventure. One thing I will say is yeah getting such high speed in 3D is difficult, because then the player has no control. The Boost games tend to be straight paths with less focus on exploring, while the Adventures saved their best speed for automated segments. As for the Nintendo flops, a lot of the more recent ones did and still do get lots of hate. Federation Force is universally panned. Hey Pikmin and the Chibi Robo on 3DS as well. And Pokemon fans are increasingly vocal of their disappointment in recent titles. The CD-i games are easy to forget because who actually had one? And shovelware is easy to ignore. But they don't define a franchise because they're one-off titles and that's that. With Sonic, sadly it happened so many times, and the franchise has changed play styles so much, even the main games. I love Sonic but no way could I sit and play even half the games in his library. I have to pick and choose which ones to play. Even just going for the more main series games. Sega just didn't know how to handle him and as you said, he should not have been the face of the company or only priority.
@@aclstudios SEGA does do quite a lot with their other properties, they just get overshadowed by sonic all the time because that's all people pay attention to. Yakuzas gotten a number of games, ports, collections, and announcements; monkeyballs had a bunch, the Endless series, Two Point, Persona, SMT, Total War, they've probably got the **most** active IP of any publisher; and this isn't even including their arcade divisions, OR all their licensed projects, or semidormant IP that still get ports; People just only look at Sonic. And yeah the "bad" games in these other series are panned, but only when they're remembered. Nobody opened Metroid Dread articles about "but do you remember Other M?" Nobody opened up Tears of the Kingdom articles with "but how will Nintendo earn our trust after Zelda II?" every series has outliers that do not define the franchise--Meanwhile everybody and their dog makes a boohoo Sonic 06 video or a Sonic-Forces-Killed-My-Grandma dig every time sonic breathes. It makes sense if you only play one particular type of Sonic game; just how people that only play Mario kart aren't going to enjoy tennis ultra smash. If you can't tell from my other videos, my favorite sonics tend to be the oddball one offs (most likely the ones most people refuse to play) and just how there's an audience for the next garbage pokemon game, there's still an audience for the Sonic's I can't stand. Sonic is definitely in an odd box as there isn't one specific direction that Sonic has "always been", you never know what you're going to get; good or bad, I appreciate the risks and experimentation instead of knowing generally what to expect. It's why I'm not the biggest boost or classic fan; even if the games review well, I'm the odd one out that seeks out and plays everything else. I'm definitely in the wrong, but fun is what matters, right? 😂
4:18 first I watch your video on Sonic R and it's bars and then I watch your video on Sonic Labyrinth and it's true and then I watch your video on Sonic Blast and it's all facts and now you say you really like Sonic Lost World, I've never met someone with such good taste and this point I'll actually have to play Tail's Sky Patrol
Haha it's definitely weird to see people say I have "good taste" when I've been cricified multiple times now for how the games I enjoy and why. Personally I find the variety of the franchise to be the most fun part of Sonic--if I wanted to play the same thing every release I'd play something like Fifa. You'll see a lot of the more oddball titles here 😂
I think we can't properly judge the game being "good or bad", the only prototypes we have rn are at most 2-4 months in, until we eventually get a further along beta. This game to me will always be the definition of "it had potential"
I should add I do NOT think it would have saved the Saturn, I don't think this would have been the mind-blowing wig snatching game people make it out to be, but I don't think it would have been bad
@@Diamond_Dust2.0 oh definitely. if the game actually came out it probably would have been a neat novelty; and when I say the game would have been terrible, I definitely mean it by Sonic Fan standards because all the other games that utilized these mechanics are also "terrible" 🤣
I loved this video, i loved how unbiased you were in everything you said and it started making me think of what i thought of X-Treme 3 years ago. I loved looking at X-Treme, for me it was looking at a glimpse of an alternate reality of what Sonic could've been before Adventure. Since i was also a huge Sonic fan at that point, i didn't want to say it looked bad, so i exaggerated it's good parts and i said the whole game would've been great. Fast forward 3 years later, i now fully understand why it got cancelled and why so many people dislike it. Sonic X-Treme would've been a bad game, i still reckon if it came out, people would've liked it at the time but if you give it even two years after release, it would've been heavily bashed, similar to what happened to Adventure DX on the Gamecube 5 years later.
Yeah! especially these days where sonic fans seem to refuse to enjoy ANY sonic game over the smallest of nitpicks, X-Treme would not have been remembered fondly. X-Treme is AWESOME as a cool look into development behind the scenes of SEGA. But oh boy would it have been an awful game. Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!
What if Sonic Xtreme gets a revival? But based on Project Condor and not the nauseating fish eye lens build. I mean, Shantae Advance is about to come out this year as a full game and I'm looking forward to that! Not only it's being worked on for native GBA hardware, but they also kept all of the hard work intact, including the GBA specific pixel art, which I think has more of that classic Matt Bozon charm when compared to Risky's Revenge/Pirate's Curse. However, I have one nitpick with the revival, the character illustrations no longer have the classic Mr. Bozon charm and are instead in a more modern HGH-esque art/design style
Condor would definitely be a great starting point, but it definitely had it's issues. Especially when it came to accurately targeting something, which is part of why the homing attack became so ubiquitous with 3D sonic titles. There was also a huge issue with visibility due to condors camera angles. Great for a tech demo for sure, but not as a full title. But here's hoping! 🙏🏻 Shantae is awesome, it's great to see it getting more love.
I really wish sega of japan focused on making something like sonic world in sonic jam as a fully realised 3D game instead of just dropping the ball and letting sti do xtreme
Sonic World may look cool and I love it a lot (especially optimizing movement in order to collect what's needed) but a game based around that probably wouldn't do very well. Even if you maximize your movement, it's still a very slowpaced game with such a narrow FOV and a really restricted moveset. Which works well in tight areas like the environment in Sonic World; but even if they were to redesign the moveset to feel more like Sonic rather than a generic 3D platformer, the'd also have to redesign the world quite a lot as well. Which is honestly how I think we ended up with Adventure, as the Saturn wouldn't be capable of rendering 3D that quickly without serious performance dips. Games like Daytona are awesome on the Saturn, but it's clear to see where Sonic would not have worked or been as fun.
@@Hard_Pretzelsonic adventure was the right call for sega as a 3D sonic game on the Saturn couldn’t have worked without some major sacrifices. However tbh maybe they could’ve done what Sony did and made a 3D corridor platformer with some fast controls (like crash bandicoot)
@@not4nikiii Oh for sure, there's lots of ways to "cheat" into 3D, I had a whole video on that. Although in the case of corridorred 3D, while an interesting possibility, I don't think, even with faster controls, would have worked well for Sonic. There's been a number of similar to cooridoor-3D sonic titles, even modern ones, with mixed reception.
oh yeah, there were a lot of cool ideas. But slowly, a lot of the ideas have made their way into other games. Colors adapted some of the story, Lost World adapted the gravity, Secret Rings (kinda) had the fisheye effect (sonic was stretched slightly based on how far you were from the screen). definitely not sure how a true usage of the fisheye lense in gameplay would work, but I'd love to see it in action in a more polished title.
I’ll contend and say I think X-Treme looked quite a bit better than Bug lol. Mainly those video clips we have of the more completed version of the game with more fully fleshed out levels and gameplay really make the game look fun to me. I don’t necessarily think it would have saved the Saturn or anything, not a chance, but idk I think it looks fun. I’m also the guy that kinda wishes Sonic Adventure was finished for the Saturn but that’s neither here nor there lol. I just want a friggin 3D Saturn Sonic platformer
@@TehJellyLord oh yeah definitely. Xtreme is what I consider to be what Bug had the potential to be. The game itself would have at best been a novelty, but definitely not fondly remembered at large, especially when 3D Blast, Jam, and R also have atypical takes on 3D gameplay and are absolutely not fondly remembered. The fisheye effect also reportedly gave loads of testers motion sickness so it was really for the best it got canned. The problem with Saturn adventure is that the Saturn just wasn't able to handle it. As cool as it would have been, especially when it came to the audio and texture quality, the Dreamcast had the Saturn beat. In my case, I was glad to let Sonic take a back seat for a while because honestly all the Sonic stuff was getting oversaturated and I appreciated seeing the IP variety.
I think I have NEVER seen so much desinformation in just one video, and also, just to clarify a bit, Project SXU is literally a trying to be the most accurate recreation of the v54 PC Build of the game
@@retrodeveloper9156 X-Treme was garbage. Point blank. It almost killed it's lead devs. Every major build was significantly different. When there are still terrible games releasing, it should indicate just how bad a SONIC game has to be to not come out. It's hardly misinformation to point out how absolutely overrated this dumpster fire is. X-Treme was not the only thing holding the Saturn back. Recreating a bad game doesn't make the bad game less bad. SXU is an incredible project on its own merit and the attention to detail to mimic the available information. Which again, doesn't make X-Treme good. It makes SXU good. if you genuinely enjoy playing this terrible game through the leaked isos, awesome! I love a lot of terrible games too, including lost betas and demo titles. But that doesn't mean what I love to play is suddenly topping the review boards and are hailed as treasures and big bad SEGA cancelled a title that would print money. Publishing adventure was a better call by far.
@@Hard_Pretzel Ok, mostly here I can agree, the way the game was going and how it was turning was really bad to say the least, but, what about specifically Sonic PC, that is, the PC build that Ofer Alon and Chris Senn continued working after "the meeting", and that almost was turned into it's own game but the Sega PC division decided to not accept it because they didn't have the funds for a totally new PC game, and were just doing ports at the time? (Sonic PC is also called by some people Sonic X-Treme 4 Worlds Build or Sonic X-Treme V54)
@@retrodeveloper9156 There were a number of SEGA PC projects; but honestly it's not surprising that a failed project wouldn't get greenlit for a PC standalone. Especially when the focus of SEGA PC was allowing people an alternative option to playing games on low-selling consoles or arcade cabinets (already on their way out in the US), rather than releasing exclusives on PC that would be eating into potential console sales in favor of just using a PC. Obviously there's been a considerable PC push now that SEGA is no longer making consoles; so if similar happened now the game MAY have had better chances, but still wouldn't have been likely because... I mean... What if YOU were the publisher that had to cancel a game, wasting thousands of dollars in marketing and promotion and R&D, because the lead developers provided a garbage product and were given 6 months to live? You can't just say "oh but we also have a PC build can we try again" after that 🤣 Huge props on the devs for even TRYING that, but that was NOT happening.
@@Hard_Pretzel Well, they wanted that the Sega PC division saw it as a separated Project, but yeah, It's Impossible that they wouldn't notice what they were trying to do
I'm definitely someone that loves to see the good in all games, and while it's definitely an exaggeration to say X-treme had NO redeeming qualities; there is absolutely no way it was going to save a console that was dead on arrival (and this is coming from the guy that considers the Saturn to be my absolute favorite console.) If games like Guardian Heroes, Daytona, VF, and more couldn't save it, NOTHING could save it. Especially when half the library was region locked across the planet from a time long before importing a game was as easy as switching regions on ebay. AT BEST, X-Treme would have been a silly novelty that Sonic Fans would be preaching TO THIS DAY about the "rocky transition" Sonic had to 3D--or about how awkward the story was 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel 😂😂😂 Dude exactly!! And I love the Saturn as well! That era was a very unique era of Sonic that not a lot of people have sang the praises of. Thankfully, Sonic R is starting to get more recognition. I loved the models they used for Sonic R, 3D blast’s special stages, and in Sonic Jam. And part of me wishes we had gotten a mainline game for that era. But I wonder what it would’ve done to change the course. And you’re absolutely right about the “rocky transition”! And what’s funny is that a decent chunk of us probably would’ve been split about it as well
@@dustinsmith7259 Oh trust me don't I know it! 😂 I've been playing Sonic R since it came out and loving every second of it--amidst a community that has taken almost 30 years to even CONSIDER it. 🤣 I've made two videos on the game already, and definitely plan on making more. Knowing what was attempted in X-Treme? Including a third-person maze, new characters, crazy gameplay gimmicks, and a fisheye lense that was reported to give almost every playtester ridiculous motionsickness??? It definitely would not have been a highly respected game, especially when we still can't get unanimous support/acknowlegement for the game gear titles, 3D Blast, or even anything outside of the Adventure titles! Definitely for the best the game got canned. Just a shame sonic fans didn't take it as a sign to check out games besides sonic.
@@Hard_Pretzel Not to mention us being in a time where, we just about can’t even get access to the games aside from the Genesis, Game Gear (which to me, is kind of surprising), and the games post-2010. Even the Adventure Era Games (despite them being adored by the fanbase) are hard to access without legacy hardware or just straight up piracy. But the thing so funny about the Saturn era is, with it being such a short lived one, it gets overlooked like crazy. My younger brother and I grew up playing the games together, he’s 4 years younger than me, and though we both adore the adventure era, for me (being born in the early 90s) I have a serious love for that era, especially Sonic R. And man, you said it about it taking nearly 30 years to be appreciated, which in the grand scheme of things is insane. 😂 Ya know, thinking about what all was attempted in X-Treme reminds me of what I used to always say about Sega and Sonic Team when I was younger. They were ahead of the curve. They were doing things with their consoles and the franchise that people just weren’t doing yet. And sometimes that ambition would bite them in the butt, but you could see that they were trying to push things forward. Even with the new characters, the third person maze the gimmicks. I think you’re right, it wouldn’t have been in the respected titles, I don’t believe. But I have to give them credit, the innovation was there, just wish the application would’ve been better
@@dustinsmith7259 That's just it though, SOMEONES gotta innovate. Half the most well loved games and franchises today wouldn't exist if it weren't for the projects that inspired them. Mario didn't invent 3D platforming; but simply built off what was already done. Halo wasn't the first FPS; but simply built off what was already done. If it weren't for the experimental titles that contemporary fans claim "didn't age well" or "needed more polish" or any other dismissive commentary--NOTHING would exist as it does. It's part of why so many franchises are starting to feel so stale and repetitive, because the same formulas are the only ones being accepted by fans of those formulas without any desire to branch out and try something new. Even outside of hardware SEGA has been the leader in innovating the industry to the point other large publishers are finally stepping out of/focusing-less-on the hardware side of video gaming due to the spec race and manufacturing costs not being sustainable -- something that SEGA predicted and followed back in the early 2000s. To which SEGA has proudly become one of the largest publishing houses in the entire industry, and doesn't even need to keep up with shady backroom auctions or traderoutes in order to win chipsets for expensive consoles thay'd sell at a loss anyway that are only marginally different from other expensive consoles. With Xbox all but giving up on hardware, PS pushing heavily to PC, and Nintendo going OUT OF THEIR WAY to underspec their hardware -- all of whom are heavily shifting focus to more and more on outside publishers (indies + multiplats) and reducing their output on their large internal projects...SEGA knew this would happen. They were right all along. 🤣
It definitely had a bunch of cool concepts, but when the concepts kept get getting scrapped in every build it really shows they couldn't decide on anything. Definitely for the best it got canned and the concepts got reused in later games. Even the story got repurposed in another game. The Xtreme DNA still lives on! 😂
@brandonspain12345 I agree with you there. Sonic X-treme in my opinion would’ve been in competition against crash, bandicoot 1. Because crash bandicoot 1 is more of a 2d game in a 3d environment which was sonic X-treme was going for.
@@The-Strongest-Being-Existing the fan projects are definitely amazing, but no matter how good a fan project is won't fix the original. X-Treme in its final state was a disaster. It was not stable. The additional characters were simulated, but never actually programmed. And if sonic fans can't even agree on a story now, they absolutely would not have liked the final version of Xtreme's story. On top of every major build getting scrapped and the lead developers almost DYING, there was never a single direction or focus for this game. by all means X-Treme is a great novelty and time capsule into the development conditions of early Saturn. But with the standards Sonic Team has, it's very rare when there's a game so bad not even Sonic team is willing to let it release. A number of other Sonic games were cancelled too, this one's just been over hyped to death, especially for what never got past a glorified tech demo.
@@The-Strongest-Being-Existing good luck! I genuinely love the passion so many fans have had in order to turn X-Treme into an actually good game 😂 keep me updated on the project! I'd love to see how it comes along!
@@Hard_Pretzel I will try hard. I'm not good at code scrolling in the website I use for it so I usually always use something else to move to other parts of level
@@The-Strongest-Being-Existing coding is a monster. I don't have the patience for it much myself lol. It's definitely a huge task and a lot of practice and study. I do (very little) C# and actionscript (depreciated lol) myself.
ABSOLUTELY WOULD NEVER. PENGUIN ADVENTURE IS A LANDMARK OF GAME DESIGN AND STILL BLOWS MY MIND TO THIS DAY. PEAK 3D GAMING WITH A SOUNDTRACK BEATING OUT MOST OTHERS. PENGUIN ADVENTURE > SONIC ADVENTURE EVERY DAY ALL DAY
@@Apollo1989V Yeah, if we run off """potential""" anything has the """potential""" to be incredible. But 06 and Boom still shipped. In X-tremes case, even the final build, was trash. Had minimal levels, with terrible design, confusing gameplay gimmicks, and the famous fisheye lense was giving most playtesters motion sickness. It didn't help that the game almost killed their lead devs. 🤣 It's easy to look at what we dont have and assume it'd be the best ever, but it truly wasn't anything close. And even then, the mechanics and gameplay elements were VERY DIFFERENT from what people expected of Sonic, and even more so from what we got in adventure. *At best* it'd be a cute novelty, but sonic fans still can't even agree on 3D Blast, or CD, or Heroes, or Lost World, or really any other game that's "different"; X-treme would have been just another "rocky transition" game.
But to me it could of been a cool concept and game I mean look at the pc port footage. It was like it was completed and it actually looks awsome to me. This is my opinion and ye it did have its flaws but tell me were you excited to play sonic xtreme because I was.
@@olganeagu999 I mean, me personally, I'm a *freak* for experimental and ""weird"" sonic games. The problem is, this game was set to be one of the *most* experimental and weird sonic games to date. Sonic Fans still can't even accept things like R, 3D Blast, Labyrinth, or even Heroes or Frontiers. This game would have been, at best, a novelty and another part of every "Rocky transition to 3D" video. ESPECIALLY when every playtester of the fisheye builds was getting astronomically motionsick, the story followed characters literally named "Boobowski", and the levels that WERE completed are absolutely labyrinthian in design and don't have a clear direction whatsoever. The point of the video isn't that the fan remakes or leaked builds can't be enjoyed (on a personal or historical stance) but that X-tremes praise is very far overstated when games people insist are much worse still came out. It also nearly kiIIed two of it's lead developers. It would not have saved the Saturn. It was a terrible game. (I say this as someone that routinely enjoys and plays terrible games, and would--and did--play xtreme) Personal Enjoyment is separate from reception, success, and quality. It's cancellation also led to Sonic Adventure.
@@Hard_Pretzel I can see why it's called Sonic Xtreme cause it makes you eXtremely dizzy and also fun fact: 9 year old me in 2009 thought Sonic Xtreme was a tie in for Sonic X cause I didn't do any good research back then.
@@SolarFarle Honestly I don't blame ya. The name X-Treme really had little to do with the game itself and it was just some 90s riffing. A title like that definitely wouldn't have aged well.
You mean the literal screenshots from Sonic X? A show quite literally rated TV-Y7? Styled after her official Sonic Adventure artwork to promote a game deemed appropriate for all ages? *Three reasons!* 1) To bait comments (thanks!) 2) It's artwork proving amy actually has a pink stomach instead of a tan stomach and most sonic artists still get this small detail wrong; so it's useful to have specific character design references on-hand in order to create accurate fanwork 3) The title the files are a reference to another video game series' spinoff subseries to bait comments (see reason #1!)
@Hard_Pretzel I was just making a funny lol I honestly wasn't judging. I thought it was just a bit anyways, considering you named the file extreme volleyball. I'm sorry if you actually thought I was trying to point you out
@@whomstedery oh nah, if I thought you were REALLY trying to make a call out, I'd probably just ignore it because I do even worse stuff in all my videos lol. 🤣
@@JohnSmith-ff2pb Ive only played a little bit of it, but honestly it's not even close to the worst "edutainment" video game out there that uses popular characters to hide that you're learning. I love Mario is Missing, but WOOF that one's rough 🤣
I started playing Lost World last week and I love it. There is something so satisfying about being able to spin dash through almost an entire level. I'm not even speedrunning it yet, I'm just casually playing levels over and over because I find the movement fun. I understand hating the story, but the gameplay is quite polished. Game gets too much hate
@@theGstar305 it's definitely a game that you gotta actually play before you enjoy it. It definitely grew on me the longer I spent with it. And honestly, if games like generations can have a story like generations and still be "good" games, I don't see why suddenly with "bad" games story is suddenly a life&death priority. 🤣
Maybe Has Sonic X-Treme Been Release in 1995 Maybe As the Saturn Launch Title It would have been the Decent Game for its Time But would have aged worse then Mario 64
Oh for sure. But by the time the thing got canned, there were plenty of other games available; plus the direction X-Treme was headed (including great characters such as the Boobowskis, everyone playing demo builds reporting severe motionsickness, and weird locked overhead maze gameplay) AT BEST it'd be a novelty or another game sonic fans love to hate.
An alternate timeline number one Sonic extreme came out but in alternate timeline 2 was even better you know game came out Sonic robo blast 2 in that timeline it was an official Sonic game
I held out for years hoping that someday, a near finished build of Sonic Xtreme would see the light of day, but going off of the various interviews and documentaries about it, you come to realize that the game never even came close to reaching a finished state, and was basically a crazy-quilt of directionless and gimmicky ideas and a doomed concept from start to finish. It just doesnt look appealing or that fun to play, and doesnt capture the feeling of playing as Sonic in 3D at all. I cant believe Sega thought this game even had a prayer of competing with Mario 64 or Crash Bandicoot when the gameplay and graphics were barely a step ahead of Bug! (which, oddly enough, was planned as a 3D Sonic game very early on). Even Sonic 3D Blast felt more cohesive and truer to the Genesis games in comparison! So yeah, with due respect to the team who busted their butts off on it, Xtreme absolutely deserved to be put out of its misery.
in context, the cancellation makes so much sense. I genuinely don't understand why we have such a deep respect and mythos surrounding a sonic game so bad not even SEGA wanted it. like??? people do realize the kind of stuff that gets greenlit right? the stuff that actually comes out?? Xtreme was going to be instant bargain bin at best and I'm glad it got thrown out in exchange for further development on what would become Adventure.
Sonic Xtreme looks like is was to be put up against crash bandicoot because there is no way this or crash bandicoot 1 could have beaten super Mario 64. Sonic adventure was the one to do that
It would have been a good game if Sonic X-treme was released in 1996. However, it would have been the ugly duckling compared to Super Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot 1 with much more refined mechanics compared to the fisheye lens and the two different gameplay engines with one for normal stages and boss stages. SONY would have still had 47% of the gaming market, but Nintendo would have had 30% of the gaming market, and SEGA would have had 20% of the gaming market. It would have given SEGA fans some goodwill towards the SEGA Dreamcast and probably sold 20 million compared to 12 million. The SEGA Dreamcast would have probably fallen a bit short, but it would have been better and much closer than in real life. We would have avoided Sonic R by a long shot if Sonic X-treme had been released.
Honestly, there were so many bigger issues with the Saturn and Dreamcast (and honestly SEGA as a whole at that time) that couldn't have been solved even IF X-Treme were somehow BETTER than Mario 64. A handful of truly fantastic games can't change the fate of a console; the WiiU is a perfect example of that.
@@Hard_Pretzel True. Even if this game was good and actually released, it would not have saved the SEGA Saturn completely. Both Mario 64 and Sonic X-treme were both different types of games. Mario 64 ditched the classic gameplay style for the better while Sonic X-treme tried adapting the classic gameplay into 3D. SEGA eventually did adapt the classic gameplay in Sonic Adventure, but it took transitioning to another console to make it a reality. There is a complete build of Sonic X-treme with the SAGE 2022 build of Sonic X-treme that works on real hardware. While losing to SONY, I feel like Nintendo around here didn't make as many dumb mistakes as SEGA hence why the SEGA Saturn and SEGA Dreamcast failed. In fact, the SEGA Saturn failing is what caused the SEGA Dreamcast to fail. Also, any way you can make what SEGA gave you available for us to download? I would like to get my hands on it and see what the nearly complete build would have been like.
@@gameshock2916 Funnily enough the playable builds of X-Treme werent officially released by SEGA, but instead one of the developers. Who has since taken them offline. However a quick google should help you out. I know TCRF (the cutting room floor) has a lot of information on the various builds. A lot of those were used to create various fangames that work on hardware.
@@gameshock2916 that’s what I think what would’ve happened if sonic x-treme was released in 1996. Both crash bandicoot 1 and sonic x-treme would have lost to super Mario 64 because that game was a true 3d game, while sonic x-treme and crash 1 were more of a 2d game in a 3d environment. So basically sonic and crash would compete against each other, I believe that sonic might have beaten crash for that holiday season, but in 1997 crash would have gotten more sales that x-treme. So in conclusion I agree with your statement about sonic x-treme
Oh my god, man's spitting facts. I dont actually have much else to say since i obviously didnt play this game, but you expertly continue to direct me back to older videos, so props. Im going deeper.😶🌫️
Haha the worst part of finding a new creator is not having anything else to watch. I'm glad you're enjoying the trip through my videos. 💖 I also call back to earlier gags a lot so longtime viewers get an extra laugh at my newer stuff.
this game is very different from any other sonic game out there; all sonic games suck, and this one is pretty cool, making it a bad SONIC game because it's actually good (and all sonic games suck). If you want to play the demo versions and betas they're pretty easy to find online. Give them a go! As a fellow sonic hater myself, I hope you also can enjoy this game.
@Hard_Pretzel same heck i found a channel someone remaking sonic saturn 3D Model demo and the demo actually looks pretty decent though looking pretty weird like crash bandicoot ps1 stiled
it's why anyone, including me, likes or dislikes any game, including Xtreme, as I said in the video. If you go into the game expecting trash, you're more likely to think it's trash. Just how if you go into it thinking it's the only thing that could have saved the Saturn, you'll let the rough edges slide. Personally my bias comes from me not liking garbage fisheye filters, loving the current Saturn library and not needing Xtreme to make the console worth its price, and Sonic R (among other Sonic games) only exist BECAUSE sonic Xtreme was cancelled and they needed some rush games.
People still play those games and enjoy them as they are. Even if *you* hate them. A bad game is a game *nobody* can play. Which is why other cancelled Sonic games are also awful games, however not as bad as X-Treme because at least in the case of Extreme, and DS they moved onto become Riders and Rush respectively. Cancelled ports still have their originals. The only other ones that really have a case would be Sister Sonic and Sonic 16 (SATAM) but there's really not out enough about them.
@@Hard_Pretzel "A bad game is a game nobody can play." I can't tell if the definition of a bad game that you're talking about is an objectively bad game or a subjectively bad game. Also, there are people who played Sonic the Hedgehog from 2006 and called it a bad game.
@@averelldalton7964 again, bad to *you* is not the same as being "bad to everyone for all time and absolutely no redeeming qualities" if people enjoy the game, it isn't a bad game. At the very least you could mention games that aren't even games like Sonic SEGA Saturn Disc Cleaner; or mention buggier games with little to offer outside of the original like Sonic Genesis; or mention awful titles for awful platforms like Sonic Jam (Game Com); Those at least have a *case* for being bad games. Sonic 06 and R have very dedicated fans that definitely do enjoy the games to this day in their vanilla state. Even if people are only playing them ironically, that "ironic" playing either through streams or just to pass the time is still VALUE. REAL bad games are shotty licensed bargain bin shovelware you'd see in Walmarts 3 for $5 bin that *nobody* plays or talks about or even remembers. REAL bad games are games that get cancelled and nobody has the opportunity to enjoy them. REAL bad games are games that are no longer playable due to servers shutting down. A "bad game" is NOT something as petty as glitches or your own personal taste when loads of games are still very well loved despite glitches and loads of conflicting personal tastes.
objectively bad video
you're the only one that understands the point I was trying to make 🙏🏻
Surrree@@Hard_Pretzel, surrreeee.....
It was going to be a objectively bad game as well.
The most interesting thing is the fact they would have made a movie about this game called "Sonic the Hedgehog: Wonder of the World". Imagine just what would have happened.
probably the same thing that happens every time there's a popular UA-cam video about it:
it gets overhyped to death, people think it is better than it was without even playing, and play the blame game without contextualizing why the thing got canned in the first place. Obviously the devs health and console lifespan played a factor, but it also was awful and gave every playtester motion sickness. 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzelwhat did you reply to the wrong comment?
@@geoffabbythomas7293 I don't believe so? A cheap documentary about a video game has the same impact as a random video essay, even if there's potentially less exposure.
Most sonic fans believe whatever they're told as long as the person speaking has enough influence. A film claiming X-treme is some lost wonder is no different from one more video essay claiming the same thing. X-treme was overhyped. Doomed from the start. Had no clear direction. Was constantly getting scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up. And, to a much more insigificant amount, was internally sabotaged from day 1.
Docuwriters and Video Essayists gloss over the issues with this game because mythos, excitement, potential, and a legend is far more exciting than the simple truth that X-Treme was so bad that not even SEGA wanted to release it.
@@Hard_Pretzel it would have been an actual movie that was a tie in for the game not a documentary like your video was (not trying to disrespect your video)
@@geoffabbythomas7293 the tie-in film would have had the same effect if not worse. Many games have tie in films (or in some cases, the tie in films get tie in games as well)
Take Street Fighter The Movie: The Game. If the movie were received well, and it were for a cancelled game, people would be overhyping the game. Just how if the movie were cancelled people would overhype the lost film. Lost media by nature is intriguing even if in many cases some things were lost for a reason.
Obviously SFtMtG came out, and SFtM still came out; and would genuinely have been the best possible scenario for Wonder of the World and X-Treme--a garbage game and a garbage film that's only a cult classic to those that appreciate the novelty. I have two copies of the game on Saturn, and the film. I'm not saying NOBODY *could* enjoy bad films or bad games, but having a bad game and a bad film is not the instant recipe for free success.
Soon all the titles in Sonic Gems Collection will be vindicated.
Sonic R is my all-time favorite game. I would have made a video on it by now if I weren't so worried about making every detail absolutely perfect! 🤧
This is why I'm more focussed on the Sonic Ringworlds fan game for Saturn. It's more like the fully 3D Sega Saturn era Sonic game we always wanted but never got. The development for it got off to a rough start due to some drama amongst the team but from what I last heard from them on the SegaXtreme forum, things are back on track. And I think they may still looking for more people to help with the project.
As cool as a Saturn 3D sonic could have been, it absolutely would have paled in comparison to what we got on the next generation of consoles anyway. It's awesome to see the fan support reimagining what could have been; but it's very clear the limitations of the hardware, especially when these fan projects build saturn playable releases. 😂
@@Hard_Pretzel Well tbf, the demo they released for Sonic Ringworlds IS in very early stages of development. In the build they released, there's just a test level with a few platforms and a non-killable enemy. But that model for sonic looks rather promising. They still have a long way to go. I'd say the only limitations were time since the Saturn takes much longer to learn and develop for. But if what I imagine they're going for were to release near the beginning of the Saturn's life, I'd say it might've given Mario 64 a run for its money. Assuming it plays like Sonic Adventure. I mean, of course anything developed for a system is going to pale in comparison to games on its successor. It's supposed to do that. At least back then anyway. I feel we've kinda hit a dead end in terms of graphics. These days I'm more focused on the fun factor more than graphics.
@@randybutternubs4647 oh definitely. it's just important to keep in mind with 20+ years of console study and documentation that weren't around during the initial console launch, it's why homebrew titles can do things that were never seen on original hardware or how critical errors can be fixed with a simple programming edit. "What could have been" is definitely a stretch when it comes to these games, because the best we had without the benefit of hindsight and advanced development information was nowhere close to what could have released.
Homebrew and fangames are great, but definitely not indicative of what could have been.
@@Hard_Pretzel Well I really meant by extension. But yeah, with those conditions you mentioned it never could have been. "What could've been" with those conditions are quite limited like you said. But "what if" Sega didn't fumble the Saturn at just about every turn? Maybe then I can see Sonic Ringsworld coming out for that time period in general. Well that, and giving the Saturn a little more time to cook instead of just rushing it out the door like they did. Even Sega of Japan, the almighty gate keepers of Saturn, found themselves stumped at times due to the Saturn's incomplete documentation. But what if that didn't happen? I believe the 20+ years of documentation we now have (and counting) is closest we'll ever get to seeing "What would a good time line for the Saturn look like?" I'd pay good money to see a good time line for the 3DO. lol. That would be interesting.
@@randybutternubs4647 Most consoles rarely have complete documentation at launch; the SNES for example only recently was discovered to be capable of true RTX using some specific workaround. The issue was primarily a lack of interest and support in the system, primarily by SEGA of America as out west they were so deadset on hyping up a doomed-from-the-start Sonic title while snubbing all the arcade ports, rpgs, and shmups that Japan was getting in droves. Even when Japan devs struggled, there was at least support from SEGA (Japan) to get these games made anyway; it's part of why Sony has such an easy time swiping developers, because the playstation was only moderately easier to build for--but boy did Sony have MONEY and an audience that was ready to buy anything. And if you were planning on releasing your game WORLDWIDE, why go to SEGA when the American region would deliberately and actively hinder your progress in order to make room for Sonic? Imagine fumbling Final Fantasy 7 because you think RPGs suck 😂
"At the time, people loved Bug!, partly because there wasn't much else to play"
Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS Into Dreams: "Are we a JOKE to you???"
key words here are *much* and the very next line about how bug would stack up against everything available at the time 😅
I do love some nights and panzer dragoon. (I also love a lot of the other launch window Saturn titles)
Bug was just an easy "top 10 must-have" game because you would be hard pressed to find more than 10 games (at the time) with as global appeal as a silly goofy wisecracking platformer. More like a "win by default" situation, when "winning" is just getting carried by lack of selection!
sorry for the confusion!
Don’t forget virtual fighter, clockwork knight, and Daytona, USA. But without a true sonic game on the Saturn, that made people ignore the console
i lik the fisheye effect no other game or pltformer exists like that. who knwos it could have been unique or captivating or somehting brand new!
Nights is a 1 day game. It wont save Saturn or move consoles. Sega was competing with Playstation remember?
1 hour of fun and then the game is over
@Grifter-m9y most games nowadays are between 4-8 hours in length. Last time I checked, that's well within 24 hours.
Sonic X-treme would've failed horribly
200%
considering just how many "bad" games that still come out, I will never understand why anyone thinks X-Treme even had a shot when they couldn't even stick with a single concept throughout each build of development.
Sonic x-treme would have been well received during the Saturn lifespan, but sonic fans now would have called it mediocre. In my opinion, sonic x-treme would’ve been able to compete against crash bandicoot 1
I don’t think the game would have failed but it wouldn’t really be sonic first 3d game. Sonic adventure was Sonic’s first true 3d game
I kinda wish you talked about this more! Great topic!
Glad to see someone point out how fun Lost World can be from a speedrun POV (Game is busted lmao)
Now excuse me while I scrub through the video to catch any jokes I missed.
I have enough cutouts from this to make a more indepth look on X-Treme specifically, but honestly? Anything to be said about this game has already been said by someone else 😂 Definitely no shortage of sonic video essays out there! 🤣
I'm glad Xtreme got cancelled because we got Sonic 3D Blast for Sega Saturn instead
@@suns3t_t0wn honestly a lot of great games came out only because this one didn't. I love 3D Blast Saturn, and R of course; but honestly who knows if adventure would have even existed 🤷🏻♀️
For this amount of information crammed into this beautiful editing display I was expecting hundreds of thousands of views, not just a few hundred.
im a tiny account, and I've been too busy to upload for quite some time, so my exposure is definitely quite limited. I'm glad you enjoyed it though! Thanks for watching!
Unfortunately, it's the truth. At least we got the far superior Sonic Adventure instead.
can you IMAGINE if we got X-Treme instead of adventure??? LIKE... IMAGINE... 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzelthat'd be crazy but interesting
@@JohnSmith-ff2pb Honestly? With Sonic games (including adventure) having a bad enough time being remembered well (even when they JUST come out) I REALLY wouldn't trust Sonic X-Treme to be part of the legacy. Ain't no way if ADVENTURE "didn't age well" X-Treme would have even been considered PLAYABLE 😂
Someone once in Discord told me they wished X-Treme launched, not because it could be good, but because they wished Classic iconography wouldn't die
@@esdrasImayInotguy3481 Funnily enough, Sonic 3D Blast (and by extension Blast GGMS), Jam, and Sonic R are also technically Classic Sonic titles that only came out because X-Treme got canned--Normally I'd say the comparison is invalid but both games were made by contracted studios. Travelers Tales especially however, was a much more capable studio than that of the X-Treme team(s) and given they were based in the UK, didn't have to deal with the same anti-SEGA-USA nonsense coming from Japan.
I'm definitely biased but until Mania, Sonic R was HARD carrying classic legacy X-Treme would have almost certainly destroyed 🤣🤣
Also, I think if Sonic X-Treme was more like the little 3D area we got in Sonic Jam, (which, fun fact, that 3D gameplay area was itself, a prototype of what would become Sonic Adventure) then maybe Sonic X-Treme would probably have been better recieved. After all, it is my personal belief that Sega's biggest mistake with X-Treme was not having Sonic Team themselves develop it, even though they've shown they can make good 3D games with NiGHTS: Into Dreams.
I used to think that as well! but then you see the reception towards Sonic Jam, and it definitely was such a far cry to what ended up becoming of adventure. The Jam minigames are cute and all, and a great start, but you can definitely see why they scrapped it for a more powerful system.
Sonic Team makes stinkers all the time, so I really wouldn't put too much faith in just a name alone. Especially because they were busy with a number of other projects at the time. Especially when pre-console release, all their focus was on NiGHTS, and as soon as that game came out, even if they sent every person they had on the mystery sonic game, they would not have a title ready by the time xtreme was supposed to release. They also had other projects such as burning rangers, and after that put all their effort into the Dreamcast with samba de amiigo, chuchu rocket, and what would become phantasy star online.
@@Hard_Pretzel @Hard_Pretzel "Sonic Team makes stinkers all the time"
Sounds a little pessimistic there. I think they've made some good games every now and then! Like Frontiers for example. I personally feel that one is 3D sonic at his absolute BEST.
Also, notice how a lot of the really bad stinkers are made from people who *aren't* Sonic Team. (Sonic Boom comes to mind)
And another thing, after seeing a bit more gameplay from X-Treme Unity and Z-Streme, I've noticed a few things, number 1, the fish-eye effect was a BAD IDEA. the game does not look good, and I can definitely see it getting a lot of dizziness and headache complaints from some people. While I don't think it would have been "Electric Soldier Porygon" levels of bad, I can definitely see it causing a lot of problems.
And number 2, the game is purely a platformer. What do I mean by this? The levels have no space for Sonic to run fast. Sonic is first and foremost all about speed and going fast, and the four or so levels that I've seen lack any space for Sonic to run. They don't even have loops! And they're all very spherical and cuboidal in shape. I'm glad Adventure fixed this, since it shows STI fundamentally misunderstood Sonic's gameplay mechanics.
@@firesonic1010 Oh for sure, I only say "stinkers" because the general youtube population has a very negative view towards most sonic games. Personally some of my favorite games are the ones that are most-hated (Lost World is probably one of my favorite Sonic Team titles--despite everyone and their dog hating it here! 😂)
But by that same regard, funnily enough I'd MUCH rather play 3D Blast (Travelers Tales, especially the Saturn Version) than play through Generations (Sonic Team, worst version being the PC version imo). So I wouldn't fully discount licensed developers, just how I wouldn't fully trust Sonic Team to deliver something I would like. Frontiers is a fantastic game, but definitely far from what I'm looking for.
And yeah, after playing all the demos and pre-builds of X-Treme, INCLUDING games similar to x-treme (and games that inspired X-Treme) it definitely was NOT a good project. That fisheye lense is such a pain after a while--it's a cool gimmick at first, but so much better to play without it. It also sucked that the lead designer got terminally sick (but thankfully survived) during development and I would not have wanted a game with a bodycount! 🤣
Definitely glad the game got canned and Sonic got adapted into a much more fitting game. Adventure isn't my favorite Sonic game, but is a MUCH better 3D adaptation than something like X-Treme tried to be.
@@Hard_Pretzel if anything, the Dreamcast and Adventure should have been what we got back in the day in place of the Saturn. Although the Saturn does still hold a place in my heart as my first console ever.
@@firesonic1010 personally I just really love the Saturn controller (MK2) absolutely the perfect D-pad, and home to some of my favorite games. Sadly the tech for the dreamcast just wasnt as available and would have really knocked the price way higher in 1995. Dreamcast is awesome though.
Man I had Bug! on a Saturn demo disc as a kid and I thought it was so cool. I guess I've never put that together with my being a Lost World apologist, but there it is. I'd watch the hell out of a Lost World video.
you're not alone there! I love Lost World too! I'm actually planning a full video for it eventually. This was a sort of test run to see how many LW fans are out there
Minnesota Fats jumpscare!
Also you are now legally obligated to cover Sonic EXtreme, the cancelled Sonic skateboarding game.
haha yeah, it's on my list. Unfortunately there's not tons on it so my research on Extreme most likely get lumped together with other videos here and there as silly sight-gags.
the editing is too good for a channel this underrated
so glad you like it!
The got cancelled because of Sega's bad management, the team's lack of experience and the numerous hardships they faced during development. Sonic Xtreme could have been a great game.
it wasn't just that, but the game itself rarely playtested well. Reports of motion sickness and poor platforming ability from the fisheye lense alone would have tanked the game. Especially when Sonic Adventure didn't even come out perfect, at best Xtreme would have been a cute novelty, or another game in a long line of "didn't age wells"
You can tell the game lacked an identity when every month a new story was pushed, and a new engine was developed. None of the tech demos shared much in common. If you enjoy the buggy prototypes, more power to you, but when we have SEGA titles like beast rider and project altered beast still release, there's really not much doubt X-Treme was far from a workable state at that level of hardware with that development team. Thinking the game would have released well, especially in 96/97, is wishful thinking at best.
I've played the fan demos and prototypes and still think it's a cool idea that warranted exploration. I really dig it. Deffo shouldn't have been the main Sonic game on the console, but It could have been a neat little spin-off. If Sega actually had decent plans for something more akin to Adventure earlier it could have worked.
Oh and yeah we read the manuals. I'm a fossil.
oh yeah, as a cute little side project, it could have definitely been something pretty unique.
*The level designer for Sonic Xtreme is Hirozaku Yasuhara. Sonic 2's level designer. Also Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic R's level designer.*
The levels were designed based on Saturn's limitations. Obviously Saturn cannot create a game on Sonic Adventure's scale
Thank god Xtreme never came out. Sonic Adventure 1, 2 and heroes were better.
honestly, a lot of games were better 😂
besides, last thing we needed was someone named "Tiara Boobowski" 🤣
@Z3RO5286 exactly, I agree with you that the sonic adventure games were better than sonic x-treme
Sonic Adventure would have come out regardless. Sonic Xtreme was the thing because Sonic Team chose to work on Nights instead of Sonic
Imagine playing a game through a keyhole for hours? This would’ve been a nightmare
I swear people see "cancelled game" and just assume it would have been the greatest thing ever.
I've been saying this for years now. Nothing about the gameplay- the most important aspect of a game- looks remotely fun or pleasant. Even with more polish. The Saturn could never have handled a fast paced 3D Sonic game. Sonic Jam's mini world was just way too slow to be made into a full game, and if they tried to, by the time it got finished, it would've been the 6th gen of gaming already and way behind. The environments are even more bare and lifeless than Mario 64's. Despite how successful and loved that game was, it had the reliable starpower of Mario who hadn't really had any bad games at that point and of course the gameplay and novelty of being one of the first 3D platformers made up for bare environments.
The camera angles of Xtreme just look nauseating. The level layouts are confusing. And if the game had been released, it could've been the Bubzy 3D before Bubzy 3D even existed, and killed the Sonic franchise altogether. It would be put on "worst game" lists everywhere. And people decades later would remember Sonic as a character who had a few good 2D games, then the 3D killed him entirely. Say what you want about the Adventures and games after, but they're far from terrible and only made the franchise more popular.
All in all, it's good that the game got cancelled, but very sad that it ultimately ended up being what killed Sega out of the hardware market.
I wouldn't say Mario had *NO* stinkers, especially pre-3D--licensed spinoffs (Mario is Missing), halfassed ports (Allstars), and reskins (Mario Bros 2), etc; but definitely nothing to the extent of what Sonic X-Treme was genuinely shaping up to be.
As you said, those camera angles are simply sickening; devs and testers alike reporting motionsickness for the sake of that overhyped "fisheye" lense. There's a reason every single build of the game looks night-and-day different: IT WAS. There was no identity to X-Treme.
But because SEGA of America put everything they had into a SINGLE SONIC GAME, instead of doing what SoE and SoJ were doing (you know, ACTUALLY MAKING GAMES) the console really started tanking. We didn't even get ports or translations of well over half the saturn library! Even **IF** Sonic X-Treme came out, I would have preferred any number of shmups, arcade fighters, or RPGs that are STILL locked to Japan. Sonic X-Treme was genuinely just a huge waste of time and put actual lives at risk.
But people wanna think it was all big bad sega pulling the plug on the greatest sonic game of all time instead of literally saving us from something that would have killed the franchise🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel I will say that SoJ didn't exactly help Sonic X-treme, but was it their job to do so? Perhaps they should have never let SoA handle Sonic games... it seems something always went wrong when this happened. Even when the games turned out good, like Sonic 2, so much content had to be cut, and we got a very different game than what was initially planned. Letting SoA handle the first 3D Sonic game was a huge mistake in and of itself.
The plug had to be pulled because it was too far gone. It didn't need intervention, it needed a complete overhaul. Ther NiGHTS engine would not have even saved it, if that story is actually true, since nobody knows the actual truth.
Looking back at any 3D games of that era, none of them were very fast paced at all. Maybe some in arcades? But on home consoles, all were too slow to replicate a Sonic experience. It just wasn't the time for 3D Sonic.
Also I will say, I can't count those Mario games as bad. All-Stars was well-received when it was released (especially since it was the only way for non-Japanese players to play Lost Levels). SMB2-J was of course only Japanese and it seems it was received well there, despite just being a kaizo hack of the first game. SMB2-USA was just a re-skin but one of a game we hadn't gotten previously, and again, well received at the time. Mario is Missing is barely a footnote.
Mario just had way longer to establish a good reputation- since he dominated the 8-bit era that Sega could not establish themselves in internationally. His first 3D outing would've had to be Bubzy levels of bad to be cancelled completely. Even if it ended up sub-par and lower mid, fans would've likely accepted it.
@@aclstudios SoJ actively didn't WANT a sonic game at the time. They saw sonic (rightfully so) as more of a fad/side-series to the company as a whole instead of "Yes, this is the only franchise of ours that matters or is profitable." it makes sense why SoJ didn't want to help on a Sonic game because why would you stake your ENTIRE COMPANY for the sake of a blue rat having moderate success? The ACTUAL internal politics of SEGA vs what people THINK happened at the time could be a whole video in itself 😂 (and a video WAY too serious and detailed for my style lol)
It's really telling when Japan was getting banger after banger, lots of great arcade ports, lots of RPGs, puzzles, and overall a solid console (albeit pricier thanks to Sony's undercutting) while SoA was out here hyping up X-Treme to the point they were slapping Sonic into a karate uniform and putting him on popsicles while there were gaps of MONTHS without even so much as a third party game announcement! SEGA didn't and honestly STILL doesn't need to focus solely on Sonic, especially when that focus takes away from their other franchises, even if more recently they aren't as well known or as popular as Sonic.
While I definitely enjoyed 3D Blast, Labyrinth, (DEFINITELY) Sonic R, and a handful of Sonics other early 3D and "3D" outings; it very much is hard to translate the same feeling of speed into 3D--even Adventure and the boost games fall short in a lot of ways. But even comparing a game like Sonic R that was built over the course of just 8 months from a F1 racing game from a licensed for-hire studio in Europe to X-Treme really emphasizes the sharp difference in direction and potential--even if you HATE Sonic R at the very least it's functional and has an identity and won't give you motionsickness after half a level.
I definitely did love a lot of the early marios (ESPECIALLY Mario is missing funnily enough lol), despite being a bit...unusual; I just brought them up as they did have their detractors. It's just a very interesting case as licensed or spinoff titles for """"good"""" franchises get a free pass (Mario is Missing or Literally any CD-i Game; or more recently Links Crossbow Training, Federation Force, DSi Shovelware, Other M, Triforce Heroes, Hey Pikmin, or just about any recent pokemon game) and these games are quickly forgotten or "don't count" even IF these games are genuinely the worst parts of the franchise (again, personally I love these oddballs, but I understand where the hate CAME from, even if people don't talk about them much now.)
meanwhile Sonic consistently has their flops thrown in their face, or games that WERE received well, suddenly were "never good" just because it's cool to dunk on sonic; or what's worse, overhyping games that would have been awful only to further attack sonic without even playing these games first.
I'm sure you understand how hard it is to enjoy sonic without getting lumped in with "sonic fans" 😂
@@Hard_Pretzel That makes perfect sense and maybe SoA should've went with that philosophy then. They were too busy looking to be the next Mario and dethrone Mario I suppose. It is a shame we no longer have many Sega franchises, and so many have been left behind. Tbh Sony is guilty of doing the same thing- they no longer have many exclusives like they used to. It seems really only Nintendo is holding onto theirs.
It's hard to find reliable sources on what really happened at Sega, because every source says something different. The most recent update was Naka saying that he was never even aware of the NiGHTS source code being used thing, making it sound like *that* whole story was fake. Maybe we'll never know the truth.
I also will compare the focus on Sonic as opposed to the SNES and N64, where it seemed so many series had their time to shine and often times, Mario was not the main one at all. Only one main game on both SNES and N64, while SNES had Metroid, DK, Zelda,... N64 had all the Rare titles. And PlayStation had almost everything.
I agree that Sonic R, while far from perfect, was at least playable and some quick fun. I always wonder if a platformer could've be made in that style, but I feel the controls just weren't precise enough for it to work. I also enjoyed 3D Blast for what it was. It was a decent distraction before we got Adventure.
One thing I will say is yeah getting such high speed in 3D is difficult, because then the player has no control. The Boost games tend to be straight paths with less focus on exploring, while the Adventures saved their best speed for automated segments.
As for the Nintendo flops, a lot of the more recent ones did and still do get lots of hate. Federation Force is universally panned. Hey Pikmin and the Chibi Robo on 3DS as well. And Pokemon fans are increasingly vocal of their disappointment in recent titles. The CD-i games are easy to forget because who actually had one? And shovelware is easy to ignore.
But they don't define a franchise because they're one-off titles and that's that. With Sonic, sadly it happened so many times, and the franchise has changed play styles so much, even the main games. I love Sonic but no way could I sit and play even half the games in his library. I have to pick and choose which ones to play. Even just going for the more main series games. Sega just didn't know how to handle him and as you said, he should not have been the face of the company or only priority.
@@aclstudios SEGA does do quite a lot with their other properties, they just get overshadowed by sonic all the time because that's all people pay attention to. Yakuzas gotten a number of games, ports, collections, and announcements; monkeyballs had a bunch, the Endless series, Two Point, Persona, SMT, Total War, they've probably got the **most** active IP of any publisher; and this isn't even including their arcade divisions, OR all their licensed projects, or semidormant IP that still get ports; People just only look at Sonic.
And yeah the "bad" games in these other series are panned, but only when they're remembered. Nobody opened Metroid Dread articles about "but do you remember Other M?" Nobody opened up Tears of the Kingdom articles with "but how will Nintendo earn our trust after Zelda II?" every series has outliers that do not define the franchise--Meanwhile everybody and their dog makes a boohoo Sonic 06 video or a Sonic-Forces-Killed-My-Grandma dig every time sonic breathes. It makes sense if you only play one particular type of Sonic game; just how people that only play Mario kart aren't going to enjoy tennis ultra smash. If you can't tell from my other videos, my favorite sonics tend to be the oddball one offs (most likely the ones most people refuse to play) and just how there's an audience for the next garbage pokemon game, there's still an audience for the Sonic's I can't stand.
Sonic is definitely in an odd box as there isn't one specific direction that Sonic has "always been", you never know what you're going to get; good or bad, I appreciate the risks and experimentation instead of knowing generally what to expect. It's why I'm not the biggest boost or classic fan; even if the games review well, I'm the odd one out that seeks out and plays everything else. I'm definitely in the wrong, but fun is what matters, right? 😂
I had no idea about bug this was super cool
Bug! is really cute and fun. I really wish more people gave it the time of day, even if it hasnt stood up against other future 3D platformers.
I LOVE BUG FOR THE SEGA SATURN YEAAAAAAAAAH
ME TOO!!! I KEEP DYING BUT I LOVE IT ANYWAY
when I saw Sonic X-treme I just thought of Minecraft
if Minecraft were a lot worse 🤣
4:18 first I watch your video on Sonic R and it's bars and then I watch your video on Sonic Labyrinth and it's true and then I watch your video on Sonic Blast and it's all facts and now you say you really like Sonic Lost World, I've never met someone with such good taste and this point I'll actually have to play Tail's Sky Patrol
Haha it's definitely weird to see people say I have "good taste" when I've been cricified multiple times now for how the games I enjoy and why. Personally I find the variety of the franchise to be the most fun part of Sonic--if I wanted to play the same thing every release I'd play something like Fifa. You'll see a lot of the more oddball titles here 😂
I think we can't properly judge the game being "good or bad", the only prototypes we have rn are at most 2-4 months in, until we eventually get a further along beta. This game to me will always be the definition of "it had potential"
I should add I do NOT think it would have saved the Saturn, I don't think this would have been the mind-blowing wig snatching game people make it out to be, but I don't think it would have been bad
@@Diamond_Dust2.0 oh definitely. if the game actually came out it probably would have been a neat novelty; and when I say the game would have been terrible, I definitely mean it by Sonic Fan standards because all the other games that utilized these mechanics are also "terrible" 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel I am really desperate to see the final prototype build, it's probably at the top of my lost media list
@@Diamond_Dust2.0 I'm definitely rooting for sister sonic and the early rush prototype. 😂
Early rush prototype?@@Hard_Pretzel
Happy Halloween bro.
You as well! Hope looking into a mysteriously cancelled project wasn't too spooky! 😂👻
ur channel is phenomenal, so excited to see more vids!!
I'm so glad you like it!
More is definitely coming! If you can imagine they can take a while to cut together. 😅
Thumbnail: the only bad sonic game
Sonic '06:🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿
even Sonic 06 still came out. 🤷🏻♀
yoooooo, Lime is in the Pretzel universe?!
YES. Even has an official shoutout in the description. Maybe there will even be a proper... collab 😏 in the future?
Amazing Job!
Thanks for watching! 💖
I loved this video, i loved how unbiased you were in everything you said and it started making me think of what i thought of X-Treme 3 years ago. I loved looking at X-Treme, for me it was looking at a glimpse of an alternate reality of what Sonic could've been before Adventure. Since i was also a huge Sonic fan at that point, i didn't want to say it looked bad, so i exaggerated it's good parts and i said the whole game would've been great.
Fast forward 3 years later, i now fully understand why it got cancelled and why so many people dislike it. Sonic X-Treme would've been a bad game, i still reckon if it came out, people would've liked it at the time but if you give it even two years after release, it would've been heavily bashed, similar to what happened to Adventure DX on the Gamecube 5 years later.
Yeah! especially these days where sonic fans seem to refuse to enjoy ANY sonic game over the smallest of nitpicks, X-Treme would not have been remembered fondly.
X-Treme is AWESOME as a cool look into development behind the scenes of SEGA. But oh boy would it have been an awful game.
Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!
This guy right here honoring cygnus distroyer legacy
Not sure who that is, but it's an honor to be thought of as an honor 💪🏻
Looked them up, DEFINITELY don't know of them; but anyone spreading positivity towards widely hated games is solid in my book. Thanks for watching!
Bro really playin Minnesota Fats: Pool Legend music in the background 💀
@@lepopcornnaisseur546 you're the only one to catch it 😂
ty for the video marty pretzie and teaching me that, sometimes, quitting is super based
honestly when you're given 6 months to live bc of horrible working conditions... yeah... just quit. 🤣
What if Sonic Xtreme gets a revival? But based on Project Condor and not the nauseating fish eye lens build.
I mean, Shantae Advance is about to come out this year as a full game and I'm looking forward to that! Not only it's being worked on for native GBA hardware, but they also kept all of the hard work intact, including the GBA specific pixel art, which I think has more of that classic Matt Bozon charm when compared to Risky's Revenge/Pirate's Curse. However, I have one nitpick with the revival, the character illustrations no longer have the classic Mr. Bozon charm and are instead in a more modern HGH-esque art/design style
Condor would definitely be a great starting point, but it definitely had it's issues. Especially when it came to accurately targeting something, which is part of why the homing attack became so ubiquitous with 3D sonic titles. There was also a huge issue with visibility due to condors camera angles. Great for a tech demo for sure, but not as a full title. But here's hoping! 🙏🏻
Shantae is awesome, it's great to see it getting more love.
I really wish sega of japan focused on making something like sonic world in sonic jam as a fully realised 3D game instead of just dropping the ball and letting sti do xtreme
Sonic World may look cool and I love it a lot (especially optimizing movement in order to collect what's needed) but a game based around that probably wouldn't do very well. Even if you maximize your movement, it's still a very slowpaced game with such a narrow FOV and a really restricted moveset. Which works well in tight areas like the environment in Sonic World; but even if they were to redesign the moveset to feel more like Sonic rather than a generic 3D platformer, the'd also have to redesign the world quite a lot as well.
Which is honestly how I think we ended up with Adventure, as the Saturn wouldn't be capable of rendering 3D that quickly without serious performance dips. Games like Daytona are awesome on the Saturn, but it's clear to see where Sonic would not have worked or been as fun.
@@Hard_Pretzelsonic adventure was the right call for sega as a 3D sonic game on the Saturn couldn’t have worked without some major sacrifices.
However tbh maybe they could’ve done what Sony did and made a 3D corridor platformer with some fast controls (like crash bandicoot)
@@not4nikiii Oh for sure, there's lots of ways to "cheat" into 3D, I had a whole video on that. Although in the case of corridorred 3D, while an interesting possibility, I don't think, even with faster controls, would have worked well for Sonic.
There's been a number of similar to cooridoor-3D sonic titles, even modern ones, with mixed reception.
@@Hard_Pretzeltrue true, at the end of the day I’m happy we got a great (if a little buggy) true 3D sonic game instead, sonic adventure.
As a semi functioning human in the 90s I would just like to say I read all the manuels before i even turned the game on but maybe I was just weird.
reading manuals during the car ride home was a rite of passage people just don't understand anymore
Quality editing sir! While Xtreme would've likely bombed, I'd like to see a new more polished take on a game with a fisheye perspective.
oh yeah, there were a lot of cool ideas. But slowly, a lot of the ideas have made their way into other games. Colors adapted some of the story, Lost World adapted the gravity, Secret Rings (kinda) had the fisheye effect (sonic was stretched slightly based on how far you were from the screen).
definitely not sure how a true usage of the fisheye lense in gameplay would work, but I'd love to see it in action in a more polished title.
I’ll contend and say I think X-Treme looked quite a bit better than Bug lol. Mainly those video clips we have of the more completed version of the game with more fully fleshed out levels and gameplay really make the game look fun to me. I don’t necessarily think it would have saved the Saturn or anything, not a chance, but idk I think it looks fun.
I’m also the guy that kinda wishes Sonic Adventure was finished for the Saturn but that’s neither here nor there lol. I just want a friggin 3D Saturn Sonic platformer
@@TehJellyLord oh yeah definitely. Xtreme is what I consider to be what Bug had the potential to be. The game itself would have at best been a novelty, but definitely not fondly remembered at large, especially when 3D Blast, Jam, and R also have atypical takes on 3D gameplay and are absolutely not fondly remembered. The fisheye effect also reportedly gave loads of testers motion sickness so it was really for the best it got canned.
The problem with Saturn adventure is that the Saturn just wasn't able to handle it. As cool as it would have been, especially when it came to the audio and texture quality, the Dreamcast had the Saturn beat. In my case, I was glad to let Sonic take a back seat for a while because honestly all the Sonic stuff was getting oversaturated and I appreciated seeing the IP variety.
I think I have NEVER seen so much desinformation in just one video, and also, just to clarify a bit, Project SXU is literally a trying to be the most accurate recreation of the v54 PC Build of the game
@@retrodeveloper9156 X-Treme was garbage. Point blank. It almost killed it's lead devs. Every major build was significantly different. When there are still terrible games releasing, it should indicate just how bad a SONIC game has to be to not come out. It's hardly misinformation to point out how absolutely overrated this dumpster fire is. X-Treme was not the only thing holding the Saturn back.
Recreating a bad game doesn't make the bad game less bad. SXU is an incredible project on its own merit and the attention to detail to mimic the available information. Which again, doesn't make X-Treme good. It makes SXU good.
if you genuinely enjoy playing this terrible game through the leaked isos, awesome! I love a lot of terrible games too, including lost betas and demo titles. But that doesn't mean what I love to play is suddenly topping the review boards and are hailed as treasures and big bad SEGA cancelled a title that would print money. Publishing adventure was a better call by far.
@@Hard_Pretzel Ok, mostly here I can agree, the way the game was going and how it was turning was really bad to say the least, but, what about specifically Sonic PC, that is, the PC build that Ofer Alon and Chris Senn continued working after "the meeting", and that almost was turned into it's own game but the Sega PC division decided to not accept it because they didn't have the funds for a totally new PC game, and were just doing ports at the time? (Sonic PC is also called by some people Sonic X-Treme 4 Worlds Build or Sonic X-Treme V54)
@@retrodeveloper9156 There were a number of SEGA PC projects; but honestly it's not surprising that a failed project wouldn't get greenlit for a PC standalone. Especially when the focus of SEGA PC was allowing people an alternative option to playing games on low-selling consoles or arcade cabinets (already on their way out in the US), rather than releasing exclusives on PC that would be eating into potential console sales in favor of just using a PC.
Obviously there's been a considerable PC push now that SEGA is no longer making consoles; so if similar happened now the game MAY have had better chances, but still wouldn't have been likely because... I mean... What if YOU were the publisher that had to cancel a game, wasting thousands of dollars in marketing and promotion and R&D, because the lead developers provided a garbage product and were given 6 months to live? You can't just say "oh but we also have a PC build can we try again" after that 🤣 Huge props on the devs for even TRYING that, but that was NOT happening.
@@Hard_Pretzel Well, they wanted that the Sega PC division saw it as a separated Project, but yeah, It's Impossible that they wouldn't notice what they were trying to do
Thank you! I'm so glad someone is finally saying this. We love to act like Sonic X-Treme would've saved the Sega Saturn, but really it wouldn't have.
I'm definitely someone that loves to see the good in all games, and while it's definitely an exaggeration to say X-treme had NO redeeming qualities; there is absolutely no way it was going to save a console that was dead on arrival (and this is coming from the guy that considers the Saturn to be my absolute favorite console.)
If games like Guardian Heroes, Daytona, VF, and more couldn't save it, NOTHING could save it. Especially when half the library was region locked across the planet from a time long before importing a game was as easy as switching regions on ebay. AT BEST, X-Treme would have been a silly novelty that Sonic Fans would be preaching TO THIS DAY about the "rocky transition" Sonic had to 3D--or about how awkward the story was 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel 😂😂😂 Dude exactly!! And I love the Saturn as well! That era was a very unique era of Sonic that not a lot of people have sang the praises of. Thankfully, Sonic R is starting to get more recognition. I loved the models they used for Sonic R, 3D blast’s special stages, and in Sonic Jam. And part of me wishes we had gotten a mainline game for that era. But I wonder what it would’ve done to change the course. And you’re absolutely right about the “rocky transition”! And what’s funny is that a decent chunk of us probably would’ve been split about it as well
@@dustinsmith7259 Oh trust me don't I know it! 😂 I've been playing Sonic R since it came out and loving every second of it--amidst a community that has taken almost 30 years to even CONSIDER it. 🤣 I've made two videos on the game already, and definitely plan on making more.
Knowing what was attempted in X-Treme? Including a third-person maze, new characters, crazy gameplay gimmicks, and a fisheye lense that was reported to give almost every playtester ridiculous motionsickness??? It definitely would not have been a highly respected game, especially when we still can't get unanimous support/acknowlegement for the game gear titles, 3D Blast, or even anything outside of the Adventure titles!
Definitely for the best the game got canned. Just a shame sonic fans didn't take it as a sign to check out games besides sonic.
@@Hard_Pretzel Not to mention us being in a time where, we just about can’t even get access to the games aside from the Genesis, Game Gear (which to me, is kind of surprising), and the games post-2010. Even the Adventure Era Games (despite them being adored by the fanbase) are hard to access without legacy hardware or just straight up piracy.
But the thing so funny about the Saturn era is, with it being such a short lived one, it gets overlooked like crazy. My younger brother and I grew up playing the games together, he’s 4 years younger than me, and though we both adore the adventure era, for me (being born in the early 90s) I have a serious love for that era, especially Sonic R. And man, you said it about it taking nearly 30 years to be appreciated, which in the grand scheme of things is insane. 😂
Ya know, thinking about what all was attempted in X-Treme reminds me of what I used to always say about Sega and Sonic Team when I was younger. They were ahead of the curve. They were doing things with their consoles and the franchise that people just weren’t doing yet. And sometimes that ambition would bite them in the butt, but you could see that they were trying to push things forward. Even with the new characters, the third person maze the gimmicks. I think you’re right, it wouldn’t have been in the respected titles, I don’t believe. But I have to give them credit, the innovation was there, just wish the application would’ve been better
@@dustinsmith7259 That's just it though, SOMEONES gotta innovate. Half the most well loved games and franchises today wouldn't exist if it weren't for the projects that inspired them.
Mario didn't invent 3D platforming; but simply built off what was already done. Halo wasn't the first FPS; but simply built off what was already done. If it weren't for the experimental titles that contemporary fans claim "didn't age well" or "needed more polish" or any other dismissive commentary--NOTHING would exist as it does. It's part of why so many franchises are starting to feel so stale and repetitive, because the same formulas are the only ones being accepted by fans of those formulas without any desire to branch out and try something new.
Even outside of hardware SEGA has been the leader in innovating the industry to the point other large publishers are finally stepping out of/focusing-less-on the hardware side of video gaming due to the spec race and manufacturing costs not being sustainable -- something that SEGA predicted and followed back in the early 2000s. To which SEGA has proudly become one of the largest publishing houses in the entire industry, and doesn't even need to keep up with shady backroom auctions or traderoutes in order to win chipsets for expensive consoles thay'd sell at a loss anyway that are only marginally different from other expensive consoles. With Xbox all but giving up on hardware, PS pushing heavily to PC, and Nintendo going OUT OF THEIR WAY to underspec their hardware -- all of whom are heavily shifting focus to more and more on outside publishers (indies + multiplats) and reducing their output on their large internal projects...SEGA knew this would happen. They were right all along. 🤣
5:33 wtf peak mentioned???
surprise! 😂
smiles do go for miles, bro
RUN AWAY AND PAY
In 1996, between Sony, Sega, and Nintendo, I feel Sonic X-Treme still would've been third place between Crash Bandicoot and Super Mario 64.
It definitely had a bunch of cool concepts, but when the concepts kept get getting scrapped in every build it really shows they couldn't decide on anything. Definitely for the best it got canned and the concepts got reused in later games. Even the story got repurposed in another game. The Xtreme DNA still lives on! 😂
@brandonspain12345 I agree with you there. Sonic X-treme in my opinion would’ve been in competition against crash, bandicoot 1. Because crash bandicoot 1 is more of a 2d game in a 3d environment which was sonic X-treme was going for.
The game I'm gonna try to kind of bring back? I think it is good.
@@The-Strongest-Being-Existing the fan projects are definitely amazing, but no matter how good a fan project is won't fix the original. X-Treme in its final state was a disaster. It was not stable. The additional characters were simulated, but never actually programmed. And if sonic fans can't even agree on a story now, they absolutely would not have liked the final version of Xtreme's story. On top of every major build getting scrapped and the lead developers almost DYING, there was never a single direction or focus for this game.
by all means X-Treme is a great novelty and time capsule into the development conditions of early Saturn. But with the standards Sonic Team has, it's very rare when there's a game so bad not even Sonic team is willing to let it release. A number of other Sonic games were cancelled too, this one's just been over hyped to death, especially for what never got past a glorified tech demo.
I know it's development had many issues but I'll still try anyway
@@The-Strongest-Being-Existing good luck! I genuinely love the passion so many fans have had in order to turn X-Treme into an actually good game 😂
keep me updated on the project! I'd love to see how it comes along!
@@Hard_Pretzel I will try hard. I'm not good at code scrolling in the website I use for it so I usually always use something else to move to other parts of level
@@The-Strongest-Being-Existing coding is a monster. I don't have the patience for it much myself lol. It's definitely a huge task and a lot of practice and study. I do (very little) C# and actionscript (depreciated lol) myself.
Are you talking smack about Penguin Adventure? Because you better not be talking smack about Penguin Adventure. 🤪
ABSOLUTELY WOULD NEVER. PENGUIN ADVENTURE IS A LANDMARK OF GAME DESIGN AND STILL BLOWS MY MIND TO THIS DAY. PEAK 3D GAMING WITH A SOUNDTRACK BEATING OUT MOST OTHERS.
PENGUIN ADVENTURE > SONIC ADVENTURE EVERY DAY ALL DAY
1:02 hi carbuncle
It's an old twitch clip of mine (going on 4 years now)! I rigged up a face tracker to a sprite and rapped WAP over Sonic Jam GameCom.
Question is whether it would have been the worst. Sonic Boom and Sonic 06 are considered terrible and glitchy filled.
@@Apollo1989V Yeah, if we run off """potential""" anything has the """potential""" to be incredible.
But 06 and Boom still shipped. In X-tremes case, even the final build, was trash. Had minimal levels, with terrible design, confusing gameplay gimmicks, and the famous fisheye lense was giving most playtesters motion sickness. It didn't help that the game almost killed their lead devs. 🤣
It's easy to look at what we dont have and assume it'd be the best ever, but it truly wasn't anything close. And even then, the mechanics and gameplay elements were VERY DIFFERENT from what people expected of Sonic, and even more so from what we got in adventure. *At best* it'd be a cute novelty, but sonic fans still can't even agree on 3D Blast, or CD, or Heroes, or Lost World, or really any other game that's "different"; X-treme would have been just another "rocky transition" game.
But to me it could of been a cool concept and game I mean look at the pc port footage. It was like it was completed and it actually looks awsome to me. This is my opinion and ye it did have its flaws but tell me were you excited to play sonic xtreme because I was.
@@olganeagu999 I mean, me personally, I'm a *freak* for experimental and ""weird"" sonic games. The problem is, this game was set to be one of the *most* experimental and weird sonic games to date. Sonic Fans still can't even accept things like R, 3D Blast, Labyrinth, or even Heroes or Frontiers. This game would have been, at best, a novelty and another part of every "Rocky transition to 3D" video. ESPECIALLY when every playtester of the fisheye builds was getting astronomically motionsick, the story followed characters literally named "Boobowski", and the levels that WERE completed are absolutely labyrinthian in design and don't have a clear direction whatsoever.
The point of the video isn't that the fan remakes or leaked builds can't be enjoyed (on a personal or historical stance) but that X-tremes praise is very far overstated when games people insist are much worse still came out. It also nearly kiIIed two of it's lead developers. It would not have saved the Saturn. It was a terrible game. (I say this as someone that routinely enjoys and plays terrible games, and would--and did--play xtreme) Personal Enjoyment is separate from reception, success, and quality.
It's cancellation also led to Sonic Adventure.
Sonic Xtreme makes me dizzy.
same here. I was getting motion sick just capturing the footage. I could only imagine how rough it was on the devs and testers.
@@Hard_Pretzel I can see why it's called Sonic Xtreme cause it makes you eXtremely dizzy and also fun fact: 9 year old me in 2009 thought Sonic Xtreme was a tie in for Sonic X cause I didn't do any good research back then.
@@SolarFarle Honestly I don't blame ya. The name X-Treme really had little to do with the game itself and it was just some 90s riffing. A title like that definitely wouldn't have aged well.
@@Hard_Pretzel True.
2:33 wanna explain why you got amy bikini pics saved?
You mean the literal screenshots from Sonic X? A show quite literally rated TV-Y7? Styled after her official Sonic Adventure artwork to promote a game deemed appropriate for all ages?
*Three reasons!*
1) To bait comments (thanks!)
2) It's artwork proving amy actually has a pink stomach instead of a tan stomach and most sonic artists still get this small detail wrong; so it's useful to have specific character design references on-hand in order to create accurate fanwork
3) The title the files are a reference to another video game series' spinoff subseries to bait comments (see reason #1!)
@Hard_Pretzel I was just making a funny lol I honestly wasn't judging. I thought it was just a bit anyways, considering you named the file extreme volleyball. I'm sorry if you actually thought I was trying to point you out
@@whomstedery oh nah, if I thought you were REALLY trying to make a call out, I'd probably just ignore it because I do even worse stuff in all my videos lol. 🤣
@@whomstedery hope your test is successful 👍🏻
@Hard_Pretzel I edited that comment did it update youtube was being weird and deleting my comments?
Minnesota Fats jump-scare
Primo vid as always ♥
No joke some of the best OST offerings of all time. Don't be sleeping on my 🐐!
1:56 sus? 😂
X-TREMELY 😉
@@Hard_Pretzel Schoolhouse 😭
@@JohnSmith-ff2pb Ive only played a little bit of it, but honestly it's not even close to the worst "edutainment" video game out there that uses popular characters to hide that you're learning.
I love Mario is Missing, but WOOF that one's rough 🤣
Patrol car 🚔
@@reeeaei I've never gotten to play patrol car but it's definitely on my list! 🚓🚓🚓
I started playing Lost World last week and I love it. There is something so satisfying about being able to spin dash through almost an entire level. I'm not even speedrunning it yet, I'm just casually playing levels over and over because I find the movement fun. I understand hating the story, but the gameplay is quite polished. Game gets too much hate
@@theGstar305 it's definitely a game that you gotta actually play before you enjoy it. It definitely grew on me the longer I spent with it. And honestly, if games like generations can have a story like generations and still be "good" games, I don't see why suddenly with "bad" games story is suddenly a life&death priority. 🤣
Maybe Has Sonic X-Treme Been Release in 1995 Maybe As the Saturn Launch Title It would have been the Decent Game for its Time But would have aged worse then Mario 64
Oh for sure. But by the time the thing got canned, there were plenty of other games available; plus the direction X-Treme was headed (including great characters such as the Boobowskis, everyone playing demo builds reporting severe motionsickness, and weird locked overhead maze gameplay) AT BEST it'd be a novelty or another game sonic fans love to hate.
Cool video
Cooler comment 😎
These are so dense and rewatchable
@@JohnSmith-ff2pb not as dense as some people think *I* am for enjoying the games that I do! 🥴
@@Hard_Pretzel it's the Sonic curse 😂
@@JohnSmith-ff2pb this community really has no taste lol. So many awesome games people are too scared to touch. 🤣
An alternate timeline number one Sonic extreme came out but in alternate timeline 2 was even better you know game came out Sonic robo blast 2 in that timeline it was an official Sonic game
Roboblast 2 consistently blows me away with what's possible. One of the most active and fun Sonic development scenes to watch as an outsider.
I held out for years hoping that someday, a near finished build of Sonic Xtreme would see the light of day, but going off of the various interviews and documentaries about it, you come to realize that the game never even came close to reaching a finished state, and was basically a crazy-quilt of directionless and gimmicky ideas and a doomed concept from start to finish. It just doesnt look appealing or that fun to play, and doesnt capture the feeling of playing as Sonic in 3D at all. I cant believe Sega thought this game even had a prayer of competing with Mario 64 or Crash Bandicoot when the gameplay and graphics were barely a step ahead of Bug! (which, oddly enough, was planned as a 3D Sonic game very early on). Even Sonic 3D Blast felt more cohesive and truer to the Genesis games in comparison! So yeah, with due respect to the team who busted their butts off on it, Xtreme absolutely deserved to be put out of its misery.
in context, the cancellation makes so much sense. I genuinely don't understand why we have such a deep respect and mythos surrounding a sonic game so bad not even SEGA wanted it.
like??? people do realize the kind of stuff that gets greenlit right? the stuff that actually comes out?? Xtreme was going to be instant bargain bin at best and I'm glad it got thrown out in exchange for further development on what would become Adventure.
Sonic Xtreme looks like is was to be put up against crash bandicoot because there is no way this or crash bandicoot 1 could have beaten super Mario 64. Sonic adventure was the one to do that
People really overestimate one of the very few sonic games that were so bad not even SEGA wanted to put it out. 😂
Xtreme getting cancelled gave us Lost World and Lost World is peak you all just suck
I love Lost World tbh. The mechanics are lots of fun, especially in Time Trial mode. People just don't get it. 😂
It would have been a good game if Sonic X-treme was released in 1996. However, it would have been the ugly duckling compared to Super Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot 1 with much more refined mechanics compared to the fisheye lens and the two different gameplay engines with one for normal stages and boss stages. SONY would have still had 47% of the gaming market, but Nintendo would have had 30% of the gaming market, and SEGA would have had 20% of the gaming market. It would have given SEGA fans some goodwill towards the SEGA Dreamcast and probably sold 20 million compared to 12 million. The SEGA Dreamcast would have probably fallen a bit short, but it would have been better and much closer than in real life. We would have avoided Sonic R by a long shot if Sonic X-treme had been released.
Honestly, there were so many bigger issues with the Saturn and Dreamcast (and honestly SEGA as a whole at that time) that couldn't have been solved even IF X-Treme were somehow BETTER than Mario 64. A handful of truly fantastic games can't change the fate of a console; the WiiU is a perfect example of that.
@@Hard_Pretzel True. Even if this game was good and actually released, it would not have saved the SEGA Saturn completely. Both Mario 64 and Sonic X-treme were both different types of games. Mario 64 ditched the classic gameplay style for the better while Sonic X-treme tried adapting the classic gameplay into 3D. SEGA eventually did adapt the classic gameplay in Sonic Adventure, but it took transitioning to another console to make it a reality. There is a complete build of Sonic X-treme with the SAGE 2022 build of Sonic X-treme that works on real hardware. While losing to SONY, I feel like Nintendo around here didn't make as many dumb mistakes as SEGA hence why the SEGA Saturn and SEGA Dreamcast failed. In fact, the SEGA Saturn failing is what caused the SEGA Dreamcast to fail. Also, any way you can make what SEGA gave you available for us to download? I would like to get my hands on it and see what the nearly complete build would have been like.
@@gameshock2916 Funnily enough the playable builds of X-Treme werent officially released by SEGA, but instead one of the developers. Who has since taken them offline.
However a quick google should help you out. I know TCRF (the cutting room floor) has a lot of information on the various builds. A lot of those were used to create various fangames that work on hardware.
@@gameshock2916 that’s what I think what would’ve happened if sonic x-treme was released in 1996. Both crash bandicoot 1 and sonic x-treme would have lost to super Mario 64 because that game was a true 3d game, while sonic x-treme and crash 1 were more of a 2d game in a 3d environment. So basically sonic and crash would compete against each other, I believe that sonic might have beaten crash for that holiday season, but in 1997 crash would have gotten more sales that x-treme. So in conclusion I agree with your statement about sonic x-treme
Oh my god, man's spitting facts. I dont actually have much else to say since i obviously didnt play this game, but you expertly continue to direct me back to older videos, so props.
Im going deeper.😶🌫️
Haha the worst part of finding a new creator is not having anything else to watch. I'm glad you're enjoying the trip through my videos. 💖
I also call back to earlier gags a lot so longtime viewers get an extra laugh at my newer stuff.
If anything, all Sonic games would suck except X-treme. All of them are boring to this day but this actually looks fun.
this game is very different from any other sonic game out there; all sonic games suck, and this one is pretty cool, making it a bad SONIC game because it's actually good (and all sonic games suck).
If you want to play the demo versions and betas they're pretty easy to find online. Give them a go! As a fellow sonic hater myself, I hope you also can enjoy this game.
Can we admit the Sonic Saturn looks better than xtreme
Which think of super mario 64 and crash bandicoot but sonic
I definitely prefer Sonic R/Jam's/3D-Blasts low poly 3D sonic to the pseudo 3D model scan sprite style of Xtreme.
@Hard_Pretzel same heck i found a channel someone remaking sonic saturn 3D Model demo and the demo actually looks pretty decent though looking pretty weird like crash bandicoot ps1 stiled
bias huh lol.
it's why anyone, including me, likes or dislikes any game, including Xtreme, as I said in the video.
If you go into the game expecting trash, you're more likely to think it's trash. Just how if you go into it thinking it's the only thing that could have saved the Saturn, you'll let the rough edges slide.
Personally my bias comes from me not liking garbage fisheye filters, loving the current Saturn library and not needing Xtreme to make the console worth its price, and Sonic R (among other Sonic games) only exist BECAUSE sonic Xtreme was cancelled and they needed some rush games.
"The only bad Sonic game."
So what about Sonic the Hedgehog from 2006 and Sonic R?
People still play those games and enjoy them as they are. Even if *you* hate them. A bad game is a game *nobody* can play.
Which is why other cancelled Sonic games are also awful games, however not as bad as X-Treme because at least in the case of Extreme, and DS they moved onto become Riders and Rush respectively. Cancelled ports still have their originals.
The only other ones that really have a case would be Sister Sonic and Sonic 16 (SATAM) but there's really not out enough about them.
@@Hard_Pretzel "A bad game is a game nobody can play."
I can't tell if the definition of a bad game that you're talking about is an objectively bad game or a subjectively bad game.
Also, there are people who played Sonic the Hedgehog from 2006 and called it a bad game.
@@averelldalton7964 again, bad to *you* is not the same as being "bad to everyone for all time and absolutely no redeeming qualities"
if people enjoy the game, it isn't a bad game.
At the very least you could mention games that aren't even games like Sonic SEGA Saturn Disc Cleaner; or mention buggier games with little to offer outside of the original like Sonic Genesis; or mention awful titles for awful platforms like Sonic Jam (Game Com); Those at least have a *case* for being bad games.
Sonic 06 and R have very dedicated fans that definitely do enjoy the games to this day in their vanilla state. Even if people are only playing them ironically, that "ironic" playing either through streams or just to pass the time is still VALUE.
REAL bad games are shotty licensed bargain bin shovelware you'd see in Walmarts 3 for $5 bin that *nobody* plays or talks about or even remembers. REAL bad games are games that get cancelled and nobody has the opportunity to enjoy them. REAL bad games are games that are no longer playable due to servers shutting down.
A "bad game" is NOT something as petty as glitches or your own personal taste when loads of games are still very well loved despite glitches and loads of conflicting personal tastes.
@@Hard_Pretzel So, it's subjective to call a game a bad game.
@@Hard_Pretzel I doubt that a game is bad just because it's cancelled.