@@kevinkong64 IT'S A BADGE OF HONOR. Everyone ELSE watching my videos are just brainwashed sheeple accepting mediocrity toxic positivity...or something.
I've been saying this for about 7 years. We need Sonic to be diverse with its games. Not pack everything into one game. Finally, someone gets it. Make more spinoffs, make different styles. Do what Mario does. Then everyone wins.
@@ThomasCapella when Mario has a spinoff that doesn't do well it's fine because not every game is for everyone smiley face emoji when Sonic has a spinoff that doesn't do well it's #lazydevs and the worst game of all time and WHAT WERE THEY THINKING and anyone that actually likes it is delusional 😡😡😡😡😡
@@greenD7244 it depends honestly. some people count secret rings, black knight, and chronicles as spinoffs. As well as the Superstars Tennis. Any number of the mobile games (including java). And of course the cameos and guest appearances
@@Hard_Pretzel I dont really consider the storybooks since theyre console platformers and arent that different from later boost/kishimoto games, and superstar tennis (or original superstars) doesnt have sonic in the title so that either. And I would make a joke about chronicles getting wiped from existence but honestly i just forgot about it, so yeah since Chronicles. And that was what, 2008? Yeah, we’re overdue for more interesting spinoffs. Fighting game or RPG seems like the most popular choice and either could be real cool if done well. Personally I’d like an arena fighter because it’d mean we’d get a Sonic game with a large roster that isn’t pay-to-get them (the mobile games and speed sim have a ton but grinding isnt fun and theres little to no real gameplay)
@@greenD7244 oh yeah, if gameplay style is your separator between mainline/spinoff then storybook is definitely in line. But by that regard, dream team is definitely mainline by extension, as well as a few mobile titles. The entirety of Boom is also pretty easily a spinoff 🤣 But yeah, I definitely want more diverse sonic titles, arena fighters, sports, dress up games, educational games, the works. Sonic fans just hate change, and freak out over everything. But if the dedication to TMoStH, especially with the ridiculous haters, is anything to go by; I hope Sonic Team is ready to finally move past the weirdos and experiment some more again
definitely! but where is that characterization based on? who decided that "free like the wind" is the DEFINITIVE Sonic when, by the numbers, there is far more sonic media WITHOUT that specific type of characterization the "like the wind" folks keep begging for. We can't keep basing what is a "correct" way to characterize sonic based on two games from 1999 and 2001, and one cutscene from the climax battle in 2009 (when the rest of the game is nothing but quips)
AINT THAT THE TRUTH 🙏🏻 I honestly don't care if something is "bad"; having such a sick over the top negative reaction to a "bad game" that the developer never tries again is WAY worse.
grew up with mainly the adventure games, sonic heroes and unleashed, yet my favorite sonic game is frontiers lol. just feels really fun to play in general.
Crazy how at the same time, there's so many Sonic fans out there treating frontiers WORSE than they even treat games like Forces or 06! go figure, right? I definitely find having fun is what makes a game for me, and since everyone has fun in a different way, it should make sense that everyone would have fun with different games. And sometimes find NEW games that are so drastically different from what they started with, and love the new games more!
@@Hard_Pretzel absolutely, its the same reason why i love megaman x7 despite it being the "worst" megaman game. i find fun in games by trying to beat them faster than before or on hard difficulties, i really like when i get good at a game, even if it is a bad one.
@@osakeleto exactly! that's why constantly fighting over which games are "good" or "bad" is ridiculous when realistically? Having fun is more important than some silly metacritic score.
This video? Now THIS video gets it. You have definitively proven that compromise is the worst thing ANYONE can do, while simultaneously NOT providing a definitive answer on what the most perfect Sonic game of all time is, thus leaving the viewers blue balled (omg like how Sonic is one!). This is truly a masterpiece, I would shake your hand but that would involve compromise which could lead to another Sonic Forces.
@@prodigiousbeet516 the best games always piss somebody off. Even Mario 64 had its detractors when it released for how drastically it changed the formula people were used to. Sometimes games just aren't for you and you just gotta wait. The perfect sonic game is whatever you say it is. 🤣
Yeah! I specifically used that phrasing for simplicity's sake. "Dimension" actually has a NUMBER of different definitions and interpretations, and while yes, inside of a book is inside of a book, the world WITHIN the book IS another dimension; just how a lot of the special stages are another dimension, or how bizarro flipped world's are another dimension. Dimension literally only means a different context to information presented.
4:57 I'm so glad you've brought up the similarities to Lost World & Frontiers. I've always said Lost World, Frontiers, Dream Team & now Shadow generations belong in a new category. Though Shadow Gens leans more to boost and Lost World leans more to adventure all 4 of the above games try mixing both.
@@Unome5150 in the Adventure games, things like combat, puzzles and exploration which are seen as after thoughts, optional or obstacles to be skipped over in normal speed based games are more focused on and sometimes the focus of the game. Lost World copies a lot from 06 with an emphasis on platforming, compulsory combat and puzzle sections all the way up to mach speed sections. You also have nerfed boost like Frontiers in the form of the run button which turns to a boost when turning Super Sonic along with 2D platforming. Don't let the tube like structure fool you, Lost World plays very much like 06 with some boost elements.
that Joystiq review is so funny "This game celebrating Sonic's history focuses too much on Sonic's history and not just these few games from his first four years!" wow no shit
2:57 No, the discussion actually started when Sonic mentioned a Secret Rings reference in Sonic Generations back in 2011. At the time, people had almost no idea what was mainline and canon. So since Sonic references Secret Rings, that most likely means Secret Rings and Black Knight are canon, and if they are canon, they are main series. The discussion has changed since then and I’m not saying what you are saying is wrong, I’m just saying when the discussion really started.
@@SaddieMoon Oh yes for sure!! I was just specifically mentioning Black Knight because it was the most relevant discussion at the time of the video. It also has some of the most *annoying* discussions too because it always devolves into patronizing Japan for everything they've done (conveniently ignoring "bad" games that were developed in Japan) and using Black Knight as the baseline for Sonic's character, despite Black knight ALSO being a variant of other games. Like, honestly, we've known "everything is canon" for a very very very long time, even before "everything is canon" was even said! 🤣
there's always potential in any mechanic; and honestly even FURTHER potential if those mechanics go even further. Even the peakest of peaks can go higher and higher if allowed to expand and adapt and improve over time. Modern Street Fighter (for the most part) literally only exists under this mindset of just improving on and adding more to very specific mechanics added in Turbo. I'm still waiting for another solid Isometric Sonic entry tbh. There's a lot you can do with that format now with more modern technology.
It's honestly a shame too because while obviously Sonic Forces is... Sonic Forces... It genuinely had solid ideas thrown at it. And under the hood, the work done to the Hedgehog Engine to allow for less pre-rendered cutscenes and smoother in-game cutscenes (so we wouldn't have that jarring quality dip like we'd see in Riders) and even have smooth transitions between cutscenes and gameplay (something that SxS Generations is absolutely riding on); as well as the HUGE buff to the air movement. My favorite part is actually how the stages literally morph classic stage tropes together to get even MORE classic representation but without more classic stages (Green Hill IS Sand Hill; there's a Casino IN THE FOREST, Factories in Space, Future Cities, Chemical Plant x Oil Ocean, we even got SUNSET HILL ZONE representation) but people still only look at this and cry over Green Hill Zone. Haphazardly throwing really cool stuff together doesn't always make a solid end product. Taking the time to coordinate each addition to play well with another addition, even if that means skipping on a few "essentials", is how we get amazing games (IE: X Shadow Generations)
Sure, but you gotta think a little deeper than just changing genres. Not only are the platformers not even platformers half the time (you can't honestly think a game like Sonic Heroes controls or plays ANYTHING like Sonic and the Secret rings, right), but what ACTUALLY keeps the racing games separate? What TYPE of racing games aren't allowed? Sonic Rivals is both a racing game AND a platforming game AND contains crucial story elements for the franchise. It introduced us further into Gerald's diary and how much he knew of Time Travel, the Ifrit, and Chao Emeralds.
To me, there are three types of games in the Sonic franchise. Mainline Games (Most important in gameplay and/or lore, or is just designed to be the major Sonic game of that year) Side Games (Has some similar gameplay, has some relevant lore, or is just designed to be a Sonic game for a weaker console) And Spin-Off games (Sonic Riders, M&S Olympics, TSR, just games that don’t play like Sonic games at all) Also not a Sonic game (Sonic & Sega All*Stars Racing) For example, I consider: Secret Rings and Black Knight as Side games (Since Secret Rings was designed as the Sonic game for the Wii, but it doesn’t really control like one. And the same applies to Black Knight because it’s the direct follow up.) Shadow 05 and 3D Blast as Mainline games (Since Shadow 05 was the major console game of 2005, with controls that are Sonic enough and it’s very important for Shadow’s lore and concludes his amnesia arc set up in Heroes. While 3D Blast was the best thing Sonic had releasing at the time to fill in the Sonic X-treme shaped hole. *It didn’t fit very well though) (Also, yes, I consider X-treme a mainline game) I know some people may say X-treme shouldn’t count as it wasn’t made by Sonic Team…but neither was Sonic 2, CD, and 3&K. Yuji Naka and many Sonic staff just left Sonic Team just to eventually work for Sega Technical institute and work on Sonic and Sonic 3&K. The American branch of STI worked on Sonic 2, Spin-Ball, and X-treme. The latter meant to be the major Sonic game of the Saturn. Sonic Team didn’t work on a Sonic game since Sonic 1, until SA1.
It's really interesting you hold a *GAMEPLAY* criteria for your mainline/side-game/spinoff qualifiers! And I don't mean that sarcastically. Because using the gameplay elements can definitely help keep your head on straight for how relevant the games will be to you! The only problem is, putting games like Sonic Adventure right next to games like Unleashed have near polar opposite gameplay philosophies. Especially when you throw in 3D blast to the mix which plays NOTHING like any OTHER ""mainline"" games, but plays very similar to something like labyrinth which most sonic fans choose to pretend doesn't even exist! To me, the gameplay differences between games are too different to even put a common genre thread against them, which is why I don't use gameplay for my qualifier. Likewise, the story elements and story depth also vary, so I don't use a story qualifier. For this reason I'm fairly loose and open with what I'm willing to consider "mainline" especially when other mainline games consistently make references and nods to these other games that most people don't consider the same. Plenty of other comments in specific have ragged on Shadow not being mainline, and now that SxS dropped, people have changed their mind. If all it takes is a new game, it's really not as hardfixed a divider between mainline and spinoff as we might think! As for X-treme, The only reason I don't count it is because it never came out (lol).
Tbh, you're way more knowledgeable than me about Sonic, but I think you're confusing "mainline" with "canon." Battle and Riders and are canon because they are referenced or factor into the events of the core catalogue, but they're not "mainline" because they're not in Sonic's main genre of platforming. Handhelds like the Advance and Rush series are canon but not mainline because they're not Sonic Team's big console release of that year, just ancillary releases. I haven't heard the the Storybook series be called mainline too often given that it actually has a separate series name, but the argument could be made that since it features platforming and is Sonic Team's big console release for the Wii, the bestselling console at the time, it's mainline from a marketing standpoint. Its gameplay isn't that dissimilar from other platformers, just its controls. I think people are guilty of calling whatever they like "mainline," but then generally negatively-reviewed games like Shadow '05, Sonic '06, The Secret Rings, Sonic 4, Lost World, and Forces wouldn't be mainline either.
oh no, I definitely know there's a huge difference between something being "canon" or "mainline"; I am just deliberately pointing out the cracks in using these descriptors both because 1: everything is canon (lol) 2: "mainline" as a concept is very very fluid even outside of canon; which is the point of the video honestly. People are genuinely very very quick to say games like Rush and Advance are mainline despite other people calling them spinoffs/not-mainline for their handheld nature. Just because people aren't jumping for the storybook games to be mainline often, doesn't mean people aren't doing it because they like the stories (conveniently ignoring how different the gameplay is to other ""mainline"" games.) There's just as much "platforming" in those onrails straightshot games as there is in something like Sonic Spinball or 3D Blast or even Tails' Adventure or Boom. If we're going by sales numbers and "successful home consoles" we can safely throw out the entire dreamcast lineup; as well as the Wii U and Lost World and Boom. Sonic Shuffle (Dreamcast) was also marketed quite heavily at the time, even if it wasnt AS heavily marketed as the Adventures. Negative reviews have been playing a HUGE part in the mainline discussion. Sonic 4 is often not cited as mainline, Lost World as well, and very often Shadow 05 -- StH was even OFFICIALLY stated to be a spinoff by the developers -- and yet if you take out the guns it's pretty much as mainline as you can get. I'm actually genuinely surprised you brought up Shadow 05 because I've had so many conversations with friends, youtube commentors in my earlier videos on the game, and freaks on twitter going back and forth on this game specifically and whether or not it could be considered "mainline." Like I said, when the term itself is so meaningless and subjective, its so easy to redefine it to fit your own tastes and expectations; just as it's easy to now throw out anything you don't want. It genuinely wasn't until more recently that a majority of online sonic discussion even bothered taking CD seriously either. CD was even being debated on being **CANON** let alone being critical to the "mainline."
@@Hard_Pretzel To try to stick to the rules I mentioned, Spinball, Tails Adventures, 3D Blast, and Boom were all outsourced to other studios rather than spearheaded by Sonic Team. While previous games like Sonic 2 have also lacked the Sonic Team banner, they involved the key staff. Tails Adventures is a handheld ancillary release, but Spinball, 3D Blast, R, and Boom could be included as part of SEGA's mainline, not necessarily Sonic Team's main line even though they provided input to most of these. If you had to include them, it'd be because Sonic Team's OWN compilations like Mega Collection and Gems Collection included them. Sonic Shuffle isn't a platformer? And I wasn't saying because Wii is a bestseller that the Storybook is mainline. The Dreamcast was meant as their next big console with SA1 and 2 as their next big games for it. Getting ported to something else because a console is discontinued doesn't erase it from mainline. Wii was both intended as and successful at being a big console and the Storybook games were made for it, so that's why someone might call it mainline. But yes, I agree that many people throw around the term "mainline" for whatever they want.
@@LorenzoDoesntExist That's where it gets very very messy, because **how much** key staff is needed before a game finally "counts"? The more standard Sonic entries on the Master System aren't called "non-mainline" very often; just how almost the entirety of Dream Team was done by Hardlight and Apple but that's also been given the mainline pass by a lot of people. The Mario & Sonic Series, Riders Series, Racing series, despite very obviously not being anything CLOSE to "mainline", also has involvement from "key staff." Iizuka himself directed any number of Sonic games that are "spinoffs." Going by names in the production credits is not really a good means for qualifying "mainline" either. Outsourcing, even to fully third party developers, isn't really the nail in the coffin; especially with Superstars being handled by Arzest. Being portable isn't necessarily the death either, because again, Rush is also a highly contested mainline addition. And realistically even IF these games are separated from the """main""" line; the fact these games branch off FROM the mainline, or branch INTO the mainline; explicitly makes them part of the mainline. Which is a stark contrast from other franchises with very very very distinct lines through the franchise such as Mario Kart separating from the Mario platformers (even a lot of the platformers don't carry much weight between each other) -- whereas TSR, Riders, and even Shuffle, outwardly and openly connects mainline story elements into the very clearly supplemental title. Platforming itself is a tricky to hard-define label; if defining it as just running and jumping to navigate somewhere, you could even consider something as ridiculous as Pajama Sam as a platformer despite it literally being a point & click narrative. OBVIOUSLY there's a huge difference in "platformer juice" between Sonic Adventure and Sonic Battle as the paltforming in one is for getting to a goal, and platforming in battle is stricly for combat -- but then we have Sonic games where you platform and there IS no fixed goal (most of the overworld segments in frontiers, or most of Shadow the Hedgehog 2005's missions, etc.) Especially when the platforming is as different in something like Secret Rings to something like Heroes; if you weren't playing as a blue hedgehog, you'd be hardpressed to even recognize them as part of the same franchise. honestly, now that you mention it; maybe a game NOT getting ported to future consoles SHOULD be the qualifier. With things like Origins + bringing back a lot of games, Colors getting moved up, CD going quite literally everywhere... meanwhile games like Advance + Rush are still locked on their platforms. Sonic R is still dead (Saturn+Gems). The Fighters isn't going anywhere past Gems or Xbox 360. This would also dismiss the storybook games, but those literally have a subtitle and are almost explicitly stated to be spinoffs. Unleashed WOULD be a tricky one, except Unleashed got a 60fps patch which did require an effort from Sonic Team, and Gens not only got the patch, but also an entire new game. Shadow is also locked down, but even the developers themselves called it a spinoff. So I think you're right on the money with this. If Sonic Team doesn't care anymore, it's not mainline anymore 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel You're right, by that logic, Sonic 4, Mania, Superstars, and Dream Team aren't mainline because they're largely outsourced and ancillary to some other bigger release at the time.
@@LorenzoDoesntExist Exactly. And that's why throwing out any random definition for what counts as mainline is pretty silly. Because for every one rule, you end up with exceptions, or accidentall further throwaways. Sonic Generations was literally designed to be a supplemental game they were just throwing onto the two major consoles at the time after Unleashed took the spotlight as the big deal (of course followed by Colors on Wii as a tideover for the version of unleashed the Wii had) -- it wasn't until fairly late in development of Generations (and arguably even after the game came out and was astronomically well received) that the game was deemed to be "mainline" to begin with. It's a very fluid definition and personal choice that really isn't worth anyone's time to dictate to anyone else.
Dear Hard_Pretzel, if you are to cover games beyond the _Sonic_ series, I would love to see a video about your thoughts on the _Freedom Planet_ series, as barely anyone I know ever talks about it! (And it could be a good follow-up to this very video.) The _Freedom Planet_ games have so many things that I would love to see in a _Sonic_ game, like its seamless combat mechanics with moves that aid in both fighting and platforming, an item shop as seen in _Freedom Planet 2_ that offers difficulty options, or the ingenious Extra Stock system of _Freedom Planet 2!_ Like you said, the _Freedom Planet_ games obviously aren't _Sonic_ games, but that doesn't mean that Sonic Team can't take inspiration from those games! (Heck, Morio Kishimoto himself already confirmed that he played _Spark the Electric Jester 3,_ and that he is taking inspiration from that game for future _Sonic_ projects.) (Heck, _Freedom Planet_ kind of checks off 2/3 (or maybe 5/6, if we pretend that Lilac is the analogue to Sonic) of the "Mainline _Sonic_ Game" qualifiers that were brought up at 3:48!) In fact, you could joke about how _Freedom Planet 2_ is practically _Sonic Adventure 2,_ or better yet, the _Sonic Adventure 3_ we were looking for! The dynamic between that game's protagonist and antagonist, Lilac and Merga, kind of feels like a dead ringer for Sonic and Shadow!
funny you mention freedom planet specifically because I have a small mention of it planned in my next video, and I have plans to cover it, and other titles, in a future video about the other "not sonic" games. I love what the freedom planet series has to offer, and despite having the base inspiration, blindly comparing it to Sonic is definitely not giving the series as much justice as it deserves
@@orangesunshine7666 it's definitely not for everyone, just like *every* game. Personally I'm not a huge fan of how long the levels are as the games I prefer have ridiculously short levels. I'm also not too big into explicitly stated narratives and prefer games where the story and other details are provided strictly through the environment rather than through dialogue and/or voice acting. That being said, these are my *personal* preferences towards games, and not universal. So while I may not be a huge Freedom Planet fan, I can appreciate that the title offers things that other people DO value. Plenty of Sonic fans specifically LOVE longer stages, and HATE stories that are "up for interpretation" or other narratives that aren't explicitly stated. There is no objectivity with this stuff. You either like it or you don't.
@Hard_Pretzel TBH I haven't really thought about what I find appealing in Sonic games. I guess is high skill. Games like Drift, R, and Skypatrol, but I also like CD, SA1, and the 8-bit games minus Blast.
@@orangesunshine7666 that's why it's so important to not discuss games in terms of "good" or "bad", but instead focus it all on yourself; such as "good FOR ME" and "bad FOR ME" it's the only way to find your preferences, and find ways to describe them. it's definitely a long process and very personal; but I feel that's the POINT of personal tastes 😂
Thank you! I'm constantly working on my editing style and pacing. I really hate the videos on here that are just some guy ranting over unedited looping b-roll footage of them playing a single game... If I wanted a podcast, I'd listed to a podcast. 🤣 *VI*deos are *VI*sual mediums and should be treated as such, even if the visuals go off-the rails
@@CherryMellow-y2r right??? it genuinely doesn't make any sense to me. I don't really like the game much myself, but it's certainly not **bad** by any stretch! The absolute WORST CASE SCENARIO for a "bad game" is that I literally don't need to play it. Frontiers came out, and all my other sonic games still exist. Nobody came in and destroyed my copies of my other games. 🤣 Besides, the more people that like a game, the more money can go into the next one! Which is literally what we got with SxS.
@@mirkodiv16 I do what I can for anyone that wants to listen! If I were in it for the numbers I'd just talk about whatever's popular and make near daily uploads 🤣
this was a really great video overall, and i like how you tied up the topic so it can seamesly transform into the reason why sonic forces was so badly received though, now i'm curious, what's your opinion on sonic x shadow generations? the original game is probably my favorite 3d sonic game so i think the remaster will be a great time if i ever get the chance to play it
@@sushyhacecosas Personally I do find the reception to forces very unfairly exaggerated. I've played the game multiple times and while I definitely understand the disappointment, it's just a game 🤣 every franchise has quick holiday release cashgrabs that don't pan out as well as the publisher hoped. I'm about halfway through the Shadow campaign in SxS, without spoilers, I'm enjoying it quite a lot. Funnily enough it brings over a lot of the stuff I actually liked from Forces such as the air boosting mechanics as well as the unlimited restarts, shorter levels, dramatic cinematics mid-stage that seamlessly transition back to gameplay, and the in-stage collectibles being grabable in a single run (in comparison to several other games where you need to go multiple separate routes requiring multiple playthroughs). It also bases its ranking system almost exclusively on clear time, which is something I adored from Lost World and Shadow The Hedgehog (2005). The gameplay itself is definitely a more balanced medium between frontiers and a more traditional boost game, and the level design has several opportunities for shortcuts, optimizations, and branching paths. Of course, it's also wrapped up with what I find to be a very well written story which is fairly unusual for boost games (including the boost game it's supposedly remaking) Mind you, my praise of SxS is also coming from someone that genuinely did not enjoy Generations very much (not a bad game, just not for me.) I haven't touched the Generations portion yet, but from what I can tell, if you liked Generations you'll still like that section of the game. Overall, the ridiculously positive reception is definitely earned. The people exaggerating how terrible it is are really grasping at the typical "grrr Ian Flynn" and "boo short quills" and other nitpicks that don't really impact the enjoyment of the game.
I wasn't expecting to see some Chronicles love but you pretty much summed up why I'm a fan of it with the text wall ya put up about it; I've even done a few runs where I've had some friends choose what characters I should use via a few polls (made me realize Big is actually really good and Rouge is possibly the worst party member; I rarely used them (or Omega) in other playthroughs before then but having to use them for a whole playthrough really makes their flaws and strengths more apparent)
that's genuinely one of my favorite parts in games with multiple characters!! I LOVE doing challenge runs with (arguably, intentionally) bad characters! it's what makes replaying a game so much more exciting. As a Sonic R player, Amy runs are some of my favorite to do! Chronicles lets you straight up build an entire team, each character getting unique POWs with others. It's such an incredible concept and a natural evolution from the Advance 3 partner mechanics!! Chronicles may not be my favorite game, but it definitely deserves the love for what it tried, and what it genuinely offers. Thank you so much for reading my wall!
@@reptilemark7346 There's a few places I think it can play; but even though it's a bit uncommon to hear, its definitely one that is very recognizable 🤣
I was so worried about this one 💔😭 It was very hard to edit and write and find gags because there isn't really a centralized game I'm talking about and I'm just pulling everything from out my backside
@@BIG_MUNKY I give every video of mine a hard time. I want every video to not only be relevant when I release it; but also relevant weeks from now, months from now, years from now. If people wanna sit through and watch all my videos in a single setting, it shouldn't feel like a chore to do that. 🤣 Rewatches should be REWARDED with more jokes you would have missed on the first go
@@paulybfromda303 I've been working real hard on it! I think I'm just about where I'd like to be. Some small things I still wanna work on but I'm definitely really happy with how it turned out!
I'm more a hack and slash guy... Sonic Unleashed is one of my favs... tho if i were to be fr fr fr... (cause I actually enjoy the werehog.. cause I use to play alot of G.O.W.3 in my younger years) Sonic fans opinions are highly subjective due to how different these games get its whatever. Dudes frontiers and shadow generations are new mainline games that are different asf or what do you think? Also why is your editing so good?
yeah. at the end of the day it's always just personal tastes and experiences. Sonic fans just refuse to understand the difference between "bad" and "I prefer different things" it's ridiculous when people throw labels around like *mainline* or *momentum* or *JP* that means different things to everyone and have exceptions (For example, Tails Sky Patrol was LITERALLY only released in Japan initially, made BY a Japanese team. And nobody but me is sweating for that game! 🤣) my editing style specifically comes from a few places; My love of early flash animation and animation memes (artists hiding tiny jokes at a nearly frame by frame basis), my HATRED of contemporary sonic content (slow, unscripted, unnecessarily negative, 2+ hour rants to unedited looping B Roll footage), and that if I got something I can tell you in 10 minutes: I wanna tell you it in 10 minutes. There's no sense in wasting your time. 🤣 Thanks for watching!
After this. I fell for a rage bait video about someone dissing forces and as I was on the verge of an aneurysm as he was dogpiling infinite with no nuance, I thought to myself. What did sonic team not learn from forces that made this person feel the need to make a rant video about the game despite us being 2 titles in that not only showed extreme improvement but evolved the engine as we know it?
@@staticplays1871 it's even crazier to see people dogpile things like 06, almost 20 years old at this point. like? I get it, boohoo bad game. But nobody's doing the same for stuff like Bomberman Act Zero, or better yet, the bugs in Skyrim are precisely WHY people love it. Franchises move on. But Sonic fans don't.
@@Hard_PretzelIt’s honestly crazy, Like why can’t they just learn to, Oh i dunno….Move on?, Then again…I make unofficial sonic music so i can’t really be talking.
@@SansverseOST it's unfortunately just tradition at this point. UA-cam became publicly accessible just in time for Shadow 05 and Sonic 06 to be the hot new games. Easy views for ripping into Sonic has been in UA-cam's DNA since the start. Now here we are almost 20 years later and it's still just game after game of people finding any and every excuse to complain about it; all while giving a free pass to other games that have the same or EVEN WORSE faults.
Sonic Formula does not stay in place for long... SONIC DOESN'T STOP... ...If a Sonic Game wants to become an RPG, the whole idea of chaining platforming, momentum, parkour, dodging and consistency for the rankings together with elements of combat and different character combinations would guarantee it's either a brand new Hack'n'Slash or risk being _Sonic Chronicles : Dark Brotherhood_ **It's complicated, there's no easy answer, mix and match different mechanics, really** ...Because we were roleplaying as characters since Sonic 1. Whatever stuff makes Sonic Characters show their true colours reflected through Chaos Emeralds, Sol Emeralds, Chaos Prism, Warp Topaz, Phantom Ruby or other Prismatics in the uni-multiverse(?) *_*I want that*_* Some of games important to the lore are on different consoles/systems ...And different Canons altogether. _"So tell me, what makes you a unique Sonic's __-Rival-__ game?"_ Are you a Shadow? Chaos Control, Guns, or DOOM powers? Are you a Blaze? Boosting with fire, doing tricks and being a Sonic Invert without being Sonic? Are you a Surge? A electric derivative with a symbiotic relationship with a liquid-bender? Are you a Amy, Fatal Florist with a Piko Market Garden Jumper on demand? I feel like I forgot my point, extremely fitting for a Sonic Franchise. I've seen only one game combine Halo Forge, Cars as whole playable characters, Farming, Kids game, Ninja Theory DmC combat, racing, skill trees, usable items, a Top-view brawler, a 3D platformer, a 2D platformer, Logic editor... **and that was Disney Infinity 3.0** Wide as a ocean, deep as a puddle
Yeah! I'm really tired of people constantly assuming good ingredients will make a good product. Duct taping a bunch of nonsense together sometimes works, and sometimes it doesn't. It also depends on who you are and what you like! Sonic R is literally platforming and racing duct taped together, and it's my all time favorite game!
Sonic R is a good idea for a racing game, but not many were interested. I like the replayability it has with the small content it offers for the tracks and the characters. The extra challenge of getting the chaos emeralds and the rival coins is something neat, to complete against Diddy Kong Racing's silver coin challenge, and Crash Team Racing's "CTR" letters and tokens to collect. Though it certainly didn't do well compared to Mario Kart 64, Diddy Kong Racing, and Crash Team Racing for what they'd offered at the time for a cartoon racing game, as they'd missed out on the item idea (except Eggman rockets). Do think that Sonic R does still offer something different and does it own unquie thing, like with the soundtrack, the full 3D level design and it's own secrets and shortcuts that's unlocked with rings, racing in a platforming way, with its own effects shown on the Saturn. Don't think it's the worst game that Traveller's Tales made. Without Sonic R, doubt that there would have been PenPen Trilcelon, Rayman M/Arena, the demake Rayman Rush, or even Mad Dash Racing for the Xbox Original, which did improve on that kind of racing genre. Heck, maybe even Fall Guys, as that seems like it could be inspired by those sort of games, too.
@@eastbeast1379 that's the thing, racing games don't *need* items; but racing games built for casual audiences rely on items for natural balancing and are popular enough to the point the specific Mario Kart gameplay style is seen as the norm for racing games -- despite even now there are multitudes of non item focused racing games. Comparing Sonic R to Mario Kart, or even most of the more casually focused racing games is pointless. But when stacked up against games like Daytona, Outrun, Virtua Racing, or other Arcade Style + Skill Focused titles: it balances quite well. The unusual controls, the course amount, replayability focus, high skill floor and higher skill ceiling, all point towards *not Mario kart* racing games 🤣
"This is the meal we ended up with." _Forces_ You forgot the meat (proper level structure and difficulty), and used cheap knockoff spices instead of the real thing (it pretends to appeal to the listed factors, but most definitely does not). The _concept_ was interesting, it's the _execution_ that stank to high heaven. Which is why I say '06 is a better game, since its only problem was that it wasn't heated up enough.
When you don't provide the time or proper parts, and just throw stuff together because people want it: it's not going to work. Of course for the metaphor, they used generic/cheap spices. Of course they used discount meat if any at all. It was just like if you asked a bunch of third graders to pick out what they want for dinner and putting everything they say in a pot. SEGA wasn't setting out to deliver a coordinated masterpiece with the best possible parts to create an amazing whole: they were literally just making something to tide people over.
Hearing someone finally articulate the whole Japanese sonic supremacy as being a bit annoying was fun to hear Liking Japanese sonic is fine and all but the rejection of litterally anything else is so ridiculous imo.
The irony is, "Japanese Sonic" also includes games like Sonic Drift (literally only released in Japan), Tails Sky Patrol (literally only released in Japan), and every OTHER game written by a fully Japanese staff. The Mario and Sonic games are "JP Sonic", the Master System games are "JP Sonic", SONIC BLAST IS JP SONIC... And funnily enough the games often praised as "JP Sonic"; IE, the adventure titles, were famously designed with international influence; SA2 was literally inspired by the developers working in California side by side with their American staff. Labeling "Good" as JP, and "Bad" as USA/EU is a very shortsighted mindset that's gotta change.
@@Hard_Pretzel Yea I know right They complain about western influence like Sonic as a series hasn’t been Western influenced since the First designs. Heck even the dragons in Superstars are based on westerns goofy dragons interpretations. The echidnas aren’t exactly based on Japanese tribes to my knowledge. Considering the tropical island theme. Black knight is based on an English story about King Arthur a story So famously known for having the last Japanese sonic.
@@RaiginAnimator when the games are releasing for international audiences, they have international employees. There's a number of Sonic games that ONLY RELEASED in Japan; but none of these "JP Sonic" people are sweating over SEGASonic coming over 🤷🏻♀
i have no problems with sonic having an rpg i just hate chronicles because the damn game kept crashing for me repeatedly. and i was playing on a 3ds! (Apparently it's a common issue on emulators, but i was using the damn game card.)
I'll definitely plan on making some chronicles content in the future, because I never had this issue when playing it! I had OTHER issues 🤣 LOTS OF THEM 😂 But technical failures weren't one of them. But yeah, after what I've seen done with Yakuza, I'm definitely interested in seeing more RPG elements added to other franchises.
honestly: all the games are perfect (to someone, for some reason) It's way more fun to hear why people love games I don't than it is so constantly complain about something that could be someone's favorite
@@Sharpteeth32 I wish people could just say "I like this" or "I don't like this" instead of PEAK PEAK PEAK and WORST GAME EVER IT LITERALLY STOLE MY KIDNEY These games have impact, and value, and people enjoy them, even if they aren't my vibe directly.
I HOPE YOU ENJOY IT! I've been very pleasantly surprised. It's not my favorite obviously (Sonic R all the way baby) but the Shadow portion really fixed up most the issues I had with the original Generations.
@@sandy_shark while I will happily glaze any game (even games I don't like personally) this video is definitely clowning on the crazy double standards and misdirected rage so many people have for this franchise 🤣
@@tempestpbkh 20 minute Werehog levels Needless backtracking for medals that are required for the next level. Quick time events Tails Tornado levels I don’t hate Unleashed, but it’s far from the best.
@@NebulaSon It's "Skull Land" from the Master System game "Psycho Fox" ! One of my favorite songs from the game. It's also a very fun early platformer based entirely around the momentum you can build up. Served as a heavy precursor to what we got as Sonic! I keep all my song names in the closed captions too btw!
@@HarmonyBunny sonic adventure has worse controls and jank physics, and mech shooting, treasure hunting, amy and big stages are unenjoyable, unleashed clears, even the werehog is peak
@@SAMURAIPACK456 Werehog levels are slow platforming and button mashing pain and the daytime boost stages are linear and too confined. And medal collecting. Also Adventure has 6 playable characters with different goals and it has the Chao Garden so it's automatically peak
@@HarmonyBunny werehog stages wasn’t trying to be fast, his combat is what makes unleashed an enjoyable game, it’s not button mashy cause A werehog has two buttons to attack, if you knew anything about the upgrade system you would know the werehog can have more combo’s and abilities, B the medal collecting argument is a skill issue, levels even in the start of the game you can see that medals are required for progression and yes the level design is linear so it would be piss easy for you to find those medals and it is linear because it’s literally the fast sonic game in the entire franchise no exaggeration. As for the adventure games there is almost nothing fun about those 6 playable characters, knuckles stages are repetitive, big’s stages are repetitive and gama and amy stages are ok at best, the only other fun gameplay is tails other then that, sonic is sharing the game with 6 characters and only 2 of em out of the whole game are functionally ok with it’s gameplay, sonic adventure is not scratching top 5 best sonic games of all time, colours, generations, unleashed, shadow gens and sonic heroes take the top 5 spot
As @HarmonyBunny said, All the song names are in the subtitles! I don't put the song names in the description because of AI scraping copyright bots. If there's a specific song you're looking for feel free to drop a timestamp!
A few reasons! In a literal sense: because YOU are not the perfect sonic game? 🤣 In a thematic sense: YOUR idea of 'perfect' is not the same as someone else's idea of 'perfect' and what you like might not be what someone else likes; and vice versa. In a direct sense: Shadow and Sonic being in the thumbnails to represent the new Sonic X Shadow Generations game (available now!) and I'm directly stating "NOT YOU" as if I am telling the game itself that SxS is not the perfect sonic game ("YOU" being directed at the game) despite the praise the game has been getting because again, perfection is a subjective descriptor. I also am running an A/B test with this thumbnail where the text can sometimes also read "NOT THIS" in case the narrative isn't clear enough from not only the thumbnail, but also the video, and the description.
I've been putting it off a for a few reasons, namely that everyone and their dog has made videos about it, so what's the point in one more? 🤣 but also, the game is also still really new, and a lot of people (especially kids that have to wait for christmas) still haven't played it yet. No sense in potentially spoiling it.
@realshaiw Perks of retro gaming; it's already spoiled, or nobody cares 🤣 I do still try to avoid spoiling final bosses though, mostly just to be petty at these people 😂
Sonic unleashed = peak I like both style the only critic I have are medals otherwise I love it I generally like most sonic games for their diversity I like so many of them except heroes I love metal sonic but sonic heroes is doo doo in my opinion
@@clasherinotheone5249 honestly my favorite part of Sonic is just how many gameplay styles are represented through different games. Even if I'm not a fan of one in particular, every game is peak to someone
@@SosadoesMusic Thank you so much!! 💖 I tend to fly under the radar due to the games I talk about (primarily ""bad"" games) and how I talk about them (having fun with them.) 🤣
@@SosadoesMusic funnily enough, so do a lot of people!! but nobody sticks up for us weirdos. 😂 It's always "this is the worst game ever made" "what were they thinking" and "MID!!! MID!!!" from people that never gave these games a fair shot! 🤣 It's a much smaller market to appeal to specifically only the people that are sick of current sonic discussion; but we're out here and hoping for the best!!
No it’s not it’s just sonic forces but good and that’s all it is good there is nothing else to it and the game is just forces levels design but good and that the problem because when you play sonic generations it’s when better and more to play Then the shadow portion of it all the shadow portion is just gimmicks that’s it
@@joshuajohnson8386 That's what I'm saying. You can dress up anything you want with all the cheap gimmicks you want, but if you dont like the thing to begin with, you're just gonna have a thing dressed up with cheap gimmicks. The game is "good", to the same people that thought so many other games were "bad"; just how this game is "bad" to a bunch of people that thought other games were "good". It's all tastes, opinions, and preferences. Just because frontiers is one of the greatest selling and highly praised games of all time isn't going to suddenly make me love it; but it also doesn't mean that just because I'm not a fan, nobody else enjoys it.
I design my videos around being able to rewatch them, and for people that like pausing/running back shorter videos to catch little details. IE: "Not a video essay as much as a video experience." It's definitely not for everyone though! Which is why there's millions of other Sonic videos out there that are the exact opposite of this! There is also of course: Settings (⚙) -> Playback Speed (▶) -> 0.5 🤣
@@_DanielPrieto Yeah! For the most part anyway. I'm definitely sick of a lot of the current youtube-meta of just "padding for time" and posting these 2 hour videos that absolutely did not need to be 2 hours. If I could get a point across in 10 minutes, I'll do it. This definitely results in a much shorter video that people can come back to and reference later if they need it (very useful for my tutorial videos) or if they just want to throw something on while they're in the toilet. While the views are definitely nice for my analytics, they really don't amount to much watchtime or ad revenue; so I definitely am mostly doing this just for my audience that is ALSO sick of current youtube content.
Honestly, Sonic Unleashed is mid at best. Not even the PS3/360 versions won me over despite them being clearly superior to the PS2/Wii versions. I'll stick with Sonic Adventure any day. They say Unleashed is peak, but have they actually gotten to Eggmanland? That world's a living nightmare.
that's the thing. If unleashed offers very little you enjoy, you're not going to enjoy it. If you don't care for linear boost gameplay, realworld inspired environments, and halfbaked combat; you're not going to care for unleashed. Just how the people that overvalue linear boost gameplay, realworld inspired environments, and halfbaked combat; it'll be the peakest of all peak because it literally offers everything these specific people want. Placing 'objective' labels on ANY game, good or bad, mid or peak, "worst game of all time" or "greatest game of all time"; is dismissive and limits discussion to WHY someone would or would not like something. Just because I can't stand eggmanland, doesn't mean I can't understand why others could see value in it (especially for speedrunners or glitch hunters)
@@HarmonyBunny Sonic R is peak to me, despite almost the entire planet thinking otherwise. 🤣 Same concept really. Sonic R has absolutely everything I want in a game, where other games don't even get CLOSE to delivering. Regardless of how awesome I think Sonic R is though, it wouldn't make sense for me to just say another game is "mid" when very obviously the "mid" game is just not for me.
@@baalfgames5318 what a lifechanging revelation that wario is not sonic?!?!? i cant wait to tell my facebook knitting group about this. thank you for your help kind stranger. please have this delicious banana: 🍌
@@Kumlord it definitely can feel that way if you're not into that style of gameplay. But at the same time, subway surfers is an unstoppable mobile app for the same reasons. When simplicity is valued, at the expense of those wanting more, simplicity is created.
Question for everyone. What's your current favourite Sonic game? Me personally, I'm a sucker for 06. Get past the horrible camera and even worse controls, then it's actually a really fun story. If you don't include Silver. F*** that guy!
It's no surprise here, but I'm team Sonic R all the way. No other Sonic game gives you THAT level of control over your momentum and lets you carry it through turns. I've got a softspot for 06 as well 🤣
@@Jonjooooo oh yeah I was totally taking the piss with that line because as highlighted later in the video, the "spinoffs" are where most of the """good""" mechanics come from, as well as the "spinoffs" being a crux for most major evolutions within the franchise. While there's certainly an element of "see what sticks" to a lot of publishers and their games, one of the things I loved about Sonic is the willingness to genuinely experiment and change things up; even if I inevitably didn't enjoy the experiment
@@FloofPuppy Lucky for you this series has had tons of other writers outside of Ian Flynn!! He may be the writer for the most recent projects, but my Sonic Adventure disc still works and unless he comes to my house with a hammer, it'll keep working 💪🏻
You act like everyone else is the opinion police, yet still get angry and insult me for "having no media literacy" for having held an opinion after a teaser trailer? Good to know I made the right decision to stop joining your streams, now to stop recommending your videos.
@@RandomAnimeGamer an "opinion" on a trailer is VERY DIFFERENT from falling for blind hype and allowing your unrealistic expectations dictate what "should have been" in the game. Pro tip: An *opinion* would be "I think this looks good" or "I think this looks bad" ; blind hype and unrealistic expectations would be "this is false advertising" or "I am actively choosing to ignore what they literally showed me along with any common sense in order to pretend the game I want is coming" I don't police opinions; I judge unfair criticism and people using their uninformed purchases and unspoken biases in order to pretend they're a victim. I hate all kinds of games, hating isn't an issue. Hating is an opinion. Slander, Libel or otherwise false claims designed to attack a publisher, developer, or voice actor, are actual crimes; and will be ""policed"" accordingly. You're welcome to hate my content, and hate me, as much as you like!
@Hard_Pretzel Except I never said any of that was an expectation or that I was a victim. I was trying to point out a decently relatable statement to you and chat and be chill. None of it was blind hype and you choosing to see it that way only shows how condescending you are towards those who once looked at you as a cool person. So much for "media literacy" when you couldn't be bothered for actual literacy then
@@Hard_Pretzel Maybe, just MAYBE you could afford to not use every fiber of your being to be condescending because someone saw something different in a thing you looked at. Because at the end of the day that IS an opinion. Especially when said opinion wasn't attacking the source material nor you, and yet you feel the need to attack someone else.
@@RandomAnimeGamer again, all I told you was that it was your own fault for being fooled and it was obvious it was not going to be what you expected. You expected something entirely different than what was shown. If the teaser doesn't show something, don't expect that thing anyway. That's it. Insisting it's "relatable" when it's only relatable to those also wearing hype goggles doesn't make it any more relatable. Just how you "thought I was cool", don't let your expectations lead you to believe I was anything other than what I am. I have, and always have been, antagonistic towards this behavior. I'm chill with the chill, and condescending to the condescending. Everyone has biases, hopes, and expectations; it's just how you wear them that makes the difference.
@@Hard_Pretzel It's not about being "fooled" or expecting something that was "obviously not what was going to happen". It's about how a trailer with minimal information conveyed a different message to two audiences. I wasn't "hype" for anything, I just was hoping for something and it wasn't that. I thought you were cool because your videos were well thought out and you were generally a cool guy to be around and talk to. It's called information can be conveyed one way and received another by human beings. Maybe that's beyond your comprehension, since you feel everyone's just blind and you aren't. I wasn't condescending towards you in that stream yet you went full force on it with me. I didn't "hold" that expectation in any way besides basic conversation, of which I even recognized was incorrect in said stream. You were antagonistic towards me for the *same exact thing* you accused others (including me) of. You saw a piece of information conveyed in a specific way, and received it *differently than intended*, and you reacted harshly towards it. That's on you my guy, maybe you need to take a look at yourself and consider that you're just as human as everyone else, and just as prone to mistakes. Or you can just be a typical redditor and think everyone else is an idiot and you're impervious to anything.
Good editing, shit opinions
finally someone notices my gimmick
Pin of shame, lmao
@@kevinkong64 IT'S A BADGE OF HONOR. Everyone ELSE watching my videos are just brainwashed sheeple accepting mediocrity toxic positivity...or something.
I wonder if this comment is actually being serious or not, I whouldn't be surprised if it's either
@@Ivan210bluboi I've seen their icon before in my other comments. I have no reason to believe they aren't one of my biggest fans 💖
I've been saying this for about 7 years. We need Sonic to be diverse with its games. Not pack everything into one game. Finally, someone gets it. Make more spinoffs, make different styles. Do what Mario does. Then everyone wins.
@@ThomasCapella when Mario has a spinoff that doesn't do well it's fine because not every game is for everyone smiley face emoji
when Sonic has a spinoff that doesn't do well it's #lazydevs and the worst game of all time and WHAT WERE THEY THINKING and anyone that actually likes it is delusional 😡😡😡😡😡
Murder of Sonic is the first non-racing Sonic spinoff since like… Sonic Battle? Unless you count the Olympics
@@greenD7244 it depends honestly. some people count secret rings, black knight, and chronicles as spinoffs. As well as the Superstars Tennis. Any number of the mobile games (including java). And of course the cameos and guest appearances
@@Hard_Pretzel I dont really consider the storybooks since theyre console platformers and arent that different from later boost/kishimoto games, and superstar tennis (or original superstars) doesnt have sonic in the title so that either. And I would make a joke about chronicles getting wiped from existence but honestly i just forgot about it, so yeah since Chronicles. And that was what, 2008? Yeah, we’re overdue for more interesting spinoffs. Fighting game or RPG seems like the most popular choice and either could be real cool if done well. Personally I’d like an arena fighter because it’d mean we’d get a Sonic game with a large roster that isn’t pay-to-get them (the mobile games and speed sim have a ton but grinding isnt fun and theres little to no real gameplay)
@@greenD7244 oh yeah, if gameplay style is your separator between mainline/spinoff then storybook is definitely in line. But by that regard, dream team is definitely mainline by extension, as well as a few mobile titles. The entirety of Boom is also pretty easily a spinoff 🤣
But yeah, I definitely want more diverse sonic titles, arena fighters, sports, dress up games, educational games, the works. Sonic fans just hate change, and freak out over everything. But if the dedication to TMoStH, especially with the ridiculous haters, is anything to go by; I hope Sonic Team is ready to finally move past the weirdos and experiment some more again
Just saying, when folks talk about Sonic being "Free like the wind" it's in reference to his characterization, not the games
definitely! but where is that characterization based on? who decided that "free like the wind" is the DEFINITIVE Sonic when, by the numbers, there is far more sonic media WITHOUT that specific type of characterization the "like the wind" folks keep begging for.
We can't keep basing what is a "correct" way to characterize sonic based on two games from 1999 and 2001, and one cutscene from the climax battle in 2009 (when the rest of the game is nothing but quips)
The biggest “problem” in Sonic games is the huge ton of gameplay styles that NEVER get used ever again
AINT THAT THE TRUTH 🙏🏻
I honestly don't care if something is "bad"; having such a sick over the top negative reaction to a "bad game" that the developer never tries again is WAY worse.
@@Hard_Pretzel We have a HUGE list :
- Advance
- Rush
- Riders
- Rivals
- Blast/Labrynth
- and especially Lost World
2:49 Thank you for reminding me that I need to continue working on my Mickey's Ultimate Challenge fancomic.
the ultimate famcomic for the ultimate challenge
grew up with mainly the adventure games, sonic heroes and unleashed, yet my favorite sonic game is frontiers lol. just feels really fun to play in general.
Crazy how at the same time, there's so many Sonic fans out there treating frontiers WORSE than they even treat games like Forces or 06! go figure, right?
I definitely find having fun is what makes a game for me, and since everyone has fun in a different way, it should make sense that everyone would have fun with different games. And sometimes find NEW games that are so drastically different from what they started with, and love the new games more!
@@Hard_Pretzel absolutely, its the same reason why i love megaman x7 despite it being the "worst" megaman game.
i find fun in games by trying to beat them faster than before or on hard difficulties, i really like when i get good at a game, even if it is a bad one.
@@osakeleto exactly! that's why constantly fighting over which games are "good" or "bad" is ridiculous when realistically? Having fun is more important than some silly metacritic score.
The Storybook games make zero sense and I'm glad you pointed it out in terms of what's considered "mainline"
I love the games a lot! But SHEEEEEEEEEESH... "mainline" is such a nothing word.
This video? Now THIS video gets it. You have definitively proven that compromise is the worst thing ANYONE can do, while simultaneously NOT providing a definitive answer on what the most perfect Sonic game of all time is, thus leaving the viewers blue balled (omg like how Sonic is one!). This is truly a masterpiece, I would shake your hand but that would involve compromise which could lead to another Sonic Forces.
@@prodigiousbeet516 the best games always piss somebody off. Even Mario 64 had its detractors when it released for how drastically it changed the formula people were used to. Sometimes games just aren't for you and you just gotta wait.
The perfect sonic game is whatever you say it is. 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel if that's the case, then you're my perfect sonic game hard_pretzel :3
@@prodigiousbeet516 play me anytime, darling 💅🏻
Came from Melody Nosurname
Stayed for the good editing and well written essay
Haha welcome on in! Thanks for popping by! I have another video going up after my birthday stream (today!)
2:48
It doesn’t take place in a book. It’s a separate dimension that Sonic was transported to.
Yeah! I specifically used that phrasing for simplicity's sake. "Dimension" actually has a NUMBER of different definitions and interpretations, and while yes, inside of a book is inside of a book, the world WITHIN the book IS another dimension; just how a lot of the special stages are another dimension, or how bizarro flipped world's are another dimension. Dimension literally only means a different context to information presented.
4:57 I'm so glad you've brought up the similarities to Lost World & Frontiers.
I've always said Lost World, Frontiers, Dream Team & now Shadow generations belong in a new category.
Though Shadow Gens leans more to boost and Lost World leans more to adventure all 4 of the above games try mixing both.
Yeah!! that's honestly part of why I was so excited for frontiers, because it was so similar to Lost World!
lost world is nothing like adventure 💀💀💀
@@Unome5150 in the Adventure games, things like combat, puzzles and exploration which are seen as after thoughts, optional or obstacles to be skipped over in normal speed based games are more focused on and sometimes the focus of the game.
Lost World copies a lot from 06 with an emphasis on platforming, compulsory combat and puzzle sections all the way up to mach speed sections.
You also have nerfed boost like Frontiers in the form of the run button which turns to a boost when turning Super Sonic along with 2D platforming.
Don't let the tube like structure fool you, Lost World plays very much like 06 with some boost elements.
that Joystiq review is so funny "This game celebrating Sonic's history focuses too much on Sonic's history and not just these few games from his first four years!" wow no shit
@@Ringtail So many reviews for so many games are like this. Yet nobody wants to recognize the obvious biases that go into these things. 🤣
2:57
No, the discussion actually started when Sonic mentioned a Secret Rings reference in Sonic Generations back in 2011. At the time, people had almost no idea what was mainline and canon. So since Sonic references Secret Rings, that most likely means Secret Rings and Black Knight are canon, and if they are canon, they are main series.
The discussion has changed since then and I’m not saying what you are saying is wrong, I’m just saying when the discussion really started.
@@SaddieMoon Oh yes for sure!! I was just specifically mentioning Black Knight because it was the most relevant discussion at the time of the video. It also has some of the most *annoying* discussions too because it always devolves into patronizing Japan for everything they've done (conveniently ignoring "bad" games that were developed in Japan) and using Black Knight as the baseline for Sonic's character, despite Black knight ALSO being a variant of other games.
Like, honestly, we've known "everything is canon" for a very very very long time, even before "everything is canon" was even said! 🤣
most of the gameplay styles have potential but sega didn't improve them to their peak
there's always potential in any mechanic; and honestly even FURTHER potential if those mechanics go even further. Even the peakest of peaks can go higher and higher if allowed to expand and adapt and improve over time.
Modern Street Fighter (for the most part) literally only exists under this mindset of just improving on and adding more to very specific mechanics added in Turbo.
I'm still waiting for another solid Isometric Sonic entry tbh. There's a lot you can do with that format now with more modern technology.
i never looked at forces like this, you cooked here
It's honestly a shame too because while obviously Sonic Forces is... Sonic Forces... It genuinely had solid ideas thrown at it. And under the hood, the work done to the Hedgehog Engine to allow for less pre-rendered cutscenes and smoother in-game cutscenes (so we wouldn't have that jarring quality dip like we'd see in Riders) and even have smooth transitions between cutscenes and gameplay (something that SxS Generations is absolutely riding on); as well as the HUGE buff to the air movement.
My favorite part is actually how the stages literally morph classic stage tropes together to get even MORE classic representation but without more classic stages (Green Hill IS Sand Hill; there's a Casino IN THE FOREST, Factories in Space, Future Cities, Chemical Plant x Oil Ocean, we even got SUNSET HILL ZONE representation) but people still only look at this and cry over Green Hill Zone.
Haphazardly throwing really cool stuff together doesn't always make a solid end product. Taking the time to coordinate each addition to play well with another addition, even if that means skipping on a few "essentials", is how we get amazing games (IE: X Shadow Generations)
we all know sonic 3d blast is the perfect sawnick gaem
@@LarioLaker I LOVE SONIC 3D BLAST
Omg the reference at 5:38 killed me
👀
3:29
DON'T TEASE US WITH THE SONIC BATTLE VIDEO 😭
@@Ivan210bluboi GET TEASED.
@@Hard_Pretzel
YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME
I STARTED THIS COMPANY!
YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?
0:01
Considering i discovered you and your channel at a Sonic R Concert, yeah, that checks out
@@WhatUpLub Hello! lovely to see ya again!
I did not choose to be here. The UA-cam algorithm sent this to me.
Welcome back, bestie! 💖 Thank you for once again clicking into one of my videos!
Mainline is a real thing, sonic racing is obviously a side game
Sure, but you gotta think a little deeper than just changing genres. Not only are the platformers not even platformers half the time (you can't honestly think a game like Sonic Heroes controls or plays ANYTHING like Sonic and the Secret rings, right), but what ACTUALLY keeps the racing games separate? What TYPE of racing games aren't allowed?
Sonic Rivals is both a racing game AND a platforming game AND contains crucial story elements for the franchise. It introduced us further into Gerald's diary and how much he knew of Time Travel, the Ifrit, and Chao Emeralds.
To me, there are three types of games in the Sonic franchise.
Mainline Games (Most important in gameplay and/or lore, or is just designed to be the major Sonic game of that year)
Side Games (Has some similar gameplay, has some relevant lore, or is just designed to be a Sonic game for a weaker console)
And Spin-Off games (Sonic Riders, M&S Olympics, TSR, just games that don’t play like Sonic games at all)
Also not a Sonic game (Sonic & Sega All*Stars Racing)
For example, I consider:
Secret Rings and Black Knight as Side games (Since Secret Rings was designed as the Sonic game for the Wii, but it doesn’t really control like one. And the same applies to Black Knight because it’s the direct follow up.)
Shadow 05 and 3D Blast as Mainline games (Since Shadow 05 was the major console game of 2005, with controls that are Sonic enough and it’s very important for Shadow’s lore and concludes his amnesia arc set up in Heroes. While 3D Blast was the best thing Sonic had releasing at the time to fill in the Sonic X-treme shaped hole. *It didn’t fit very well though) (Also, yes, I consider X-treme a mainline game)
I know some people may say X-treme shouldn’t count as it wasn’t made by Sonic Team…but neither was Sonic 2, CD, and 3&K. Yuji Naka and many Sonic staff just left Sonic Team just to eventually work for Sega Technical institute and work on Sonic and Sonic 3&K.
The American branch of STI worked on Sonic 2, Spin-Ball, and X-treme. The latter meant to be the major Sonic game of the Saturn.
Sonic Team didn’t work on a Sonic game since Sonic 1, until SA1.
It's really interesting you hold a *GAMEPLAY* criteria for your mainline/side-game/spinoff qualifiers! And I don't mean that sarcastically. Because using the gameplay elements can definitely help keep your head on straight for how relevant the games will be to you!
The only problem is, putting games like Sonic Adventure right next to games like Unleashed have near polar opposite gameplay philosophies. Especially when you throw in 3D blast to the mix which plays NOTHING like any OTHER ""mainline"" games, but plays very similar to something like labyrinth which most sonic fans choose to pretend doesn't even exist!
To me, the gameplay differences between games are too different to even put a common genre thread against them, which is why I don't use gameplay for my qualifier. Likewise, the story elements and story depth also vary, so I don't use a story qualifier. For this reason I'm fairly loose and open with what I'm willing to consider "mainline" especially when other mainline games consistently make references and nods to these other games that most people don't consider the same. Plenty of other comments in specific have ragged on Shadow not being mainline, and now that SxS dropped, people have changed their mind. If all it takes is a new game, it's really not as hardfixed a divider between mainline and spinoff as we might think!
As for X-treme, The only reason I don't count it is because it never came out (lol).
Tbh, you're way more knowledgeable than me about Sonic, but I think you're confusing "mainline" with "canon."
Battle and Riders and are canon because they are referenced or factor into the events of the core catalogue, but they're not "mainline" because they're not in Sonic's main genre of platforming.
Handhelds like the Advance and Rush series are canon but not mainline because they're not Sonic Team's big console release of that year, just ancillary releases.
I haven't heard the the Storybook series be called mainline too often given that it actually has a separate series name, but the argument could be made that since it features platforming and is Sonic Team's big console release for the Wii, the bestselling console at the time, it's mainline from a marketing standpoint. Its gameplay isn't that dissimilar from other platformers, just its controls.
I think people are guilty of calling whatever they like "mainline," but then generally negatively-reviewed games like Shadow '05, Sonic '06, The Secret Rings, Sonic 4, Lost World, and Forces wouldn't be mainline either.
oh no, I definitely know there's a huge difference between something being "canon" or "mainline"; I am just deliberately pointing out the cracks in using these descriptors both because
1: everything is canon (lol)
2: "mainline" as a concept is very very fluid even outside of canon; which is the point of the video honestly.
People are genuinely very very quick to say games like Rush and Advance are mainline despite other people calling them spinoffs/not-mainline for their handheld nature. Just because people aren't jumping for the storybook games to be mainline often, doesn't mean people aren't doing it because they like the stories (conveniently ignoring how different the gameplay is to other ""mainline"" games.) There's just as much "platforming" in those onrails straightshot games as there is in something like Sonic Spinball or 3D Blast or even Tails' Adventure or Boom.
If we're going by sales numbers and "successful home consoles" we can safely throw out the entire dreamcast lineup; as well as the Wii U and Lost World and Boom. Sonic Shuffle (Dreamcast) was also marketed quite heavily at the time, even if it wasnt AS heavily marketed as the Adventures.
Negative reviews have been playing a HUGE part in the mainline discussion. Sonic 4 is often not cited as mainline, Lost World as well, and very often Shadow 05 -- StH was even OFFICIALLY stated to be a spinoff by the developers -- and yet if you take out the guns it's pretty much as mainline as you can get. I'm actually genuinely surprised you brought up Shadow 05 because I've had so many conversations with friends, youtube commentors in my earlier videos on the game, and freaks on twitter going back and forth on this game specifically and whether or not it could be considered "mainline."
Like I said, when the term itself is so meaningless and subjective, its so easy to redefine it to fit your own tastes and expectations; just as it's easy to now throw out anything you don't want. It genuinely wasn't until more recently that a majority of online sonic discussion even bothered taking CD seriously either. CD was even being debated on being **CANON** let alone being critical to the "mainline."
@@Hard_Pretzel To try to stick to the rules I mentioned, Spinball, Tails Adventures, 3D Blast, and Boom were all outsourced to other studios rather than spearheaded by Sonic Team. While previous games like Sonic 2 have also lacked the Sonic Team banner, they involved the key staff.
Tails Adventures is a handheld ancillary release, but Spinball, 3D Blast, R, and Boom could be included as part of SEGA's mainline, not necessarily Sonic Team's main line even though they provided input to most of these. If you had to include them, it'd be because Sonic Team's OWN compilations like Mega Collection and Gems Collection included them.
Sonic Shuffle isn't a platformer?
And I wasn't saying because Wii is a bestseller that the Storybook is mainline. The Dreamcast was meant as their next big console with SA1 and 2 as their next big games for it. Getting ported to something else because a console is discontinued doesn't erase it from mainline. Wii was both intended as and successful at being a big console and the Storybook games were made for it, so that's why someone might call it mainline.
But yes, I agree that many people throw around the term "mainline" for whatever they want.
@@LorenzoDoesntExist That's where it gets very very messy, because **how much** key staff is needed before a game finally "counts"? The more standard Sonic entries on the Master System aren't called "non-mainline" very often; just how almost the entirety of Dream Team was done by Hardlight and Apple but that's also been given the mainline pass by a lot of people. The Mario & Sonic Series, Riders Series, Racing series, despite very obviously not being anything CLOSE to "mainline", also has involvement from "key staff." Iizuka himself directed any number of Sonic games that are "spinoffs." Going by names in the production credits is not really a good means for qualifying "mainline" either. Outsourcing, even to fully third party developers, isn't really the nail in the coffin; especially with Superstars being handled by Arzest.
Being portable isn't necessarily the death either, because again, Rush is also a highly contested mainline addition. And realistically even IF these games are separated from the """main""" line; the fact these games branch off FROM the mainline, or branch INTO the mainline; explicitly makes them part of the mainline. Which is a stark contrast from other franchises with very very very distinct lines through the franchise such as Mario Kart separating from the Mario platformers (even a lot of the platformers don't carry much weight between each other) -- whereas TSR, Riders, and even Shuffle, outwardly and openly connects mainline story elements into the very clearly supplemental title.
Platforming itself is a tricky to hard-define label; if defining it as just running and jumping to navigate somewhere, you could even consider something as ridiculous as Pajama Sam as a platformer despite it literally being a point & click narrative. OBVIOUSLY there's a huge difference in "platformer juice" between Sonic Adventure and Sonic Battle as the paltforming in one is for getting to a goal, and platforming in battle is stricly for combat -- but then we have Sonic games where you platform and there IS no fixed goal (most of the overworld segments in frontiers, or most of Shadow the Hedgehog 2005's missions, etc.) Especially when the platforming is as different in something like Secret Rings to something like Heroes; if you weren't playing as a blue hedgehog, you'd be hardpressed to even recognize them as part of the same franchise.
honestly, now that you mention it; maybe a game NOT getting ported to future consoles SHOULD be the qualifier. With things like Origins + bringing back a lot of games, Colors getting moved up, CD going quite literally everywhere... meanwhile games like Advance + Rush are still locked on their platforms. Sonic R is still dead (Saturn+Gems). The Fighters isn't going anywhere past Gems or Xbox 360. This would also dismiss the storybook games, but those literally have a subtitle and are almost explicitly stated to be spinoffs. Unleashed WOULD be a tricky one, except Unleashed got a 60fps patch which did require an effort from Sonic Team, and Gens not only got the patch, but also an entire new game. Shadow is also locked down, but even the developers themselves called it a spinoff. So I think you're right on the money with this. If Sonic Team doesn't care anymore, it's not mainline anymore 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel You're right, by that logic, Sonic 4, Mania, Superstars, and Dream Team aren't mainline because they're largely outsourced and ancillary to some other bigger release at the time.
@@LorenzoDoesntExist Exactly. And that's why throwing out any random definition for what counts as mainline is pretty silly. Because for every one rule, you end up with exceptions, or accidentall further throwaways. Sonic Generations was literally designed to be a supplemental game they were just throwing onto the two major consoles at the time after Unleashed took the spotlight as the big deal (of course followed by Colors on Wii as a tideover for the version of unleashed the Wii had) -- it wasn't until fairly late in development of Generations (and arguably even after the game came out and was astronomically well received) that the game was deemed to be "mainline" to begin with. It's a very fluid definition and personal choice that really isn't worth anyone's time to dictate to anyone else.
Sonic X Shadow Generations SUCKS
They didnt add the playable Genesis...
@@PBTV_25 I'm glad I keep my MD2 plugged in and ready to go
"All sonic games are terrible"
*has a channel filled with videos about sonic games*
I'm a terrible person, so naturally I'd like and talk about exclusively terrible games 👍🏻
@@Hard_Pretzel absolutely horrifying >XD
Skull Land is great, but I've always got a soft spot for Mystical Mountains.
honestly one of my favorite parts of making these videos is getting to play awesome music.
So, in conclusion....
Sonic.
@lonelyonionagain. you got that right!
Dear Hard_Pretzel, if you are to cover games beyond the _Sonic_ series, I would love to see a video about your thoughts on the _Freedom Planet_ series, as barely anyone I know ever talks about it! (And it could be a good follow-up to this very video.)
The _Freedom Planet_ games have so many things that I would love to see in a _Sonic_ game, like its seamless combat mechanics with moves that aid in both fighting and platforming, an item shop as seen in _Freedom Planet 2_ that offers difficulty options, or the ingenious Extra Stock system of _Freedom Planet 2!_
Like you said, the _Freedom Planet_ games obviously aren't _Sonic_ games, but that doesn't mean that Sonic Team can't take inspiration from those games! (Heck, Morio Kishimoto himself already confirmed that he played _Spark the Electric Jester 3,_ and that he is taking inspiration from that game for future _Sonic_ projects.)
(Heck, _Freedom Planet_ kind of checks off 2/3 (or maybe 5/6, if we pretend that Lilac is the analogue to Sonic) of the "Mainline _Sonic_ Game" qualifiers that were brought up at 3:48!)
In fact, you could joke about how _Freedom Planet 2_ is practically _Sonic Adventure 2,_ or better yet, the _Sonic Adventure 3_ we were looking for! The dynamic between that game's protagonist and antagonist, Lilac and Merga, kind of feels like a dead ringer for Sonic and Shadow!
funny you mention freedom planet specifically because I have a small mention of it planned in my next video,
and I have plans to cover it, and other titles, in a future video about the other "not sonic" games. I love what the freedom planet series has to offer, and despite having the base inspiration, blindly comparing it to Sonic is definitely not giving the series as much justice as it deserves
@@Hard_Pretzel i can't wait to hear why people like it because I found it a bit trashy
@@orangesunshine7666 it's definitely not for everyone, just like *every* game.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of how long the levels are as the games I prefer have ridiculously short levels. I'm also not too big into explicitly stated narratives and prefer games where the story and other details are provided strictly through the environment rather than through dialogue and/or voice acting. That being said, these are my *personal* preferences towards games, and not universal. So while I may not be a huge Freedom Planet fan, I can appreciate that the title offers things that other people DO value. Plenty of Sonic fans specifically LOVE longer stages, and HATE stories that are "up for interpretation" or other narratives that aren't explicitly stated.
There is no objectivity with this stuff. You either like it or you don't.
@Hard_Pretzel TBH I haven't really thought about what I find appealing in Sonic games. I guess is high skill. Games like Drift, R, and Skypatrol, but I also like CD, SA1, and the 8-bit games minus Blast.
@@orangesunshine7666 that's why it's so important to not discuss games in terms of "good" or "bad", but instead focus it all on yourself; such as "good FOR ME" and "bad FOR ME"
it's the only way to find your preferences, and find ways to describe them. it's definitely a long process and very personal; but I feel that's the POINT of personal tastes 😂
This video is rlly well made idk how to explain it but the editing was peak
Thank you! I'm constantly working on my editing style and pacing. I really hate the videos on here that are just some guy ranting over unedited looping b-roll footage of them playing a single game... If I wanted a podcast, I'd listed to a podcast. 🤣 *VI*deos are *VI*sual mediums and should be treated as such, even if the visuals go off-the rails
If it had chao garden maybe
SONIC PINBALL PARTY FOR THE WIN BABY
Love all the Sonic games but Frontiers is my new fav I really hate how much hate it gets despite that
@@CherryMellow-y2r right??? it genuinely doesn't make any sense to me.
I don't really like the game much myself, but it's certainly not **bad** by any stretch! The absolute WORST CASE SCENARIO for a "bad game" is that I literally don't need to play it. Frontiers came out, and all my other sonic games still exist. Nobody came in and destroyed my copies of my other games. 🤣
Besides, the more people that like a game, the more money can go into the next one! Which is literally what we got with SxS.
We all know the perfect Sonic game is sonic pocket adventure🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@Nobody_Shroom it's such a great game fr
Pocket Adventure is actually really great.
@ r/woooosh
Crazy editing,this guy deserves a lot more
@@mirkodiv16 I do what I can for anyone that wants to listen! If I were in it for the numbers I'd just talk about whatever's popular and make near daily uploads 🤣
this was a really great video overall, and i like how you tied up the topic so it can seamesly transform into the reason why sonic forces was so badly received
though, now i'm curious, what's your opinion on sonic x shadow generations? the original game is probably my favorite 3d sonic game so i think the remaster will be a great time if i ever get the chance to play it
@@sushyhacecosas Personally I do find the reception to forces very unfairly exaggerated. I've played the game multiple times and while I definitely understand the disappointment, it's just a game 🤣 every franchise has quick holiday release cashgrabs that don't pan out as well as the publisher hoped.
I'm about halfway through the Shadow campaign in SxS, without spoilers, I'm enjoying it quite a lot. Funnily enough it brings over a lot of the stuff I actually liked from Forces such as the air boosting mechanics as well as the unlimited restarts, shorter levels, dramatic cinematics mid-stage that seamlessly transition back to gameplay, and the in-stage collectibles being grabable in a single run (in comparison to several other games where you need to go multiple separate routes requiring multiple playthroughs). It also bases its ranking system almost exclusively on clear time, which is something I adored from Lost World and Shadow The Hedgehog (2005). The gameplay itself is definitely a more balanced medium between frontiers and a more traditional boost game, and the level design has several opportunities for shortcuts, optimizations, and branching paths. Of course, it's also wrapped up with what I find to be a very well written story which is fairly unusual for boost games (including the boost game it's supposedly remaking)
Mind you, my praise of SxS is also coming from someone that genuinely did not enjoy Generations very much (not a bad game, just not for me.) I haven't touched the Generations portion yet, but from what I can tell, if you liked Generations you'll still like that section of the game.
Overall, the ridiculously positive reception is definitely earned. The people exaggerating how terrible it is are really grasping at the typical "grrr Ian Flynn" and "boo short quills" and other nitpicks that don't really impact the enjoyment of the game.
I wasn't expecting to see some Chronicles love but you pretty much summed up why I'm a fan of it with the text wall ya put up about it; I've even done a few runs where I've had some friends choose what characters I should use via a few polls (made me realize Big is actually really good and Rouge is possibly the worst party member; I rarely used them (or Omega) in other playthroughs before then but having to use them for a whole playthrough really makes their flaws and strengths more apparent)
that's genuinely one of my favorite parts in games with multiple characters!!
I LOVE doing challenge runs with (arguably, intentionally) bad characters! it's what makes replaying a game so much more exciting. As a Sonic R player, Amy runs are some of my favorite to do! Chronicles lets you straight up build an entire team, each character getting unique POWs with others. It's such an incredible concept and a natural evolution from the Advance 3 partner mechanics!!
Chronicles may not be my favorite game, but it definitely deserves the love for what it tried, and what it genuinely offers. Thank you so much for reading my wall!
The chao cry sound lol 0:33
the chao are evolving
@@Hard_Pretzel I honestly only ever Heard that sound in chao katate during the intros before the round
@@reptilemark7346 There's a few places I think it can play; but even though it's a bit uncommon to hear, its definitely one that is very recognizable 🤣
This is now my favorite video of yours. Absolutely loved it, Sam, fantastic job ❤
Hey goncas
@@Ivan210bluboihey ivanluigi !
I was so worried about this one 💔😭
It was very hard to edit and write and find gags because there isn't really a centralized game I'm talking about and I'm just pulling everything from out my backside
@@Hard_Pretzel I could never have thought you had a hard time with it! Really, imo your biggest achievement so far :)
@@BIG_MUNKY I give every video of mine a hard time. I want every video to not only be relevant when I release it; but also relevant weeks from now, months from now, years from now. If people wanna sit through and watch all my videos in a single setting, it shouldn't feel like a chore to do that. 🤣
Rewatches should be REWARDED with more jokes you would have missed on the first go
Your editing has improved tenfold. I couldn't take my eyes off the screen :D
@@paulybfromda303 I've been working real hard on it! I think I'm just about where I'd like to be. Some small things I still wanna work on but I'm definitely really happy with how it turned out!
Soooo yeah, the perfect Sonic game is Shuffle, then, right?
all SEGA games are perfect,
no exceptions. 💚
Well, I'm not a Sonic game...
@@UserAndSale I'd sure hope not, because that'd be a video I'd have to make 😂
@@Hard_Pretzel 😳
I'm more a hack and slash guy... Sonic Unleashed is one of my favs... tho if i were to be fr fr fr... (cause I actually enjoy the werehog.. cause I use to play alot of G.O.W.3 in my younger years)
Sonic fans opinions are highly subjective due to how different these games get its whatever. Dudes frontiers and shadow generations are new mainline games that are different asf or what do you think? Also why is your editing so good?
yeah. at the end of the day it's always just personal tastes and experiences. Sonic fans just refuse to understand the difference between "bad" and "I prefer different things"
it's ridiculous when people throw labels around like *mainline* or *momentum* or *JP* that means different things to everyone and have exceptions (For example, Tails Sky Patrol was LITERALLY only released in Japan initially, made BY a Japanese team. And nobody but me is sweating for that game! 🤣)
my editing style specifically comes from a few places; My love of early flash animation and animation memes (artists hiding tiny jokes at a nearly frame by frame basis), my HATRED of contemporary sonic content (slow, unscripted, unnecessarily negative, 2+ hour rants to unedited looping B Roll footage), and that if I got something I can tell you in 10 minutes: I wanna tell you it in 10 minutes. There's no sense in wasting your time. 🤣
Thanks for watching!
After this. I fell for a rage bait video about someone dissing forces and as I was on the verge of an aneurysm as he was dogpiling infinite with no nuance,
I thought to myself.
What did sonic team not learn from forces that made this person feel the need to make a rant video about the game despite us being 2 titles in that not only showed extreme improvement but evolved the engine as we know it?
@@staticplays1871 it's even crazier to see people dogpile things like 06, almost 20 years old at this point. like? I get it, boohoo bad game. But nobody's doing the same for stuff like Bomberman Act Zero, or better yet, the bugs in Skyrim are precisely WHY people love it.
Franchises move on. But Sonic fans don't.
@@Hard_PretzelIt’s honestly crazy, Like why can’t they just learn to, Oh i dunno….Move on?, Then again…I make unofficial sonic music so i can’t really be talking.
@@SansverseOST it's unfortunately just tradition at this point. UA-cam became publicly accessible just in time for Shadow 05 and Sonic 06 to be the hot new games. Easy views for ripping into Sonic has been in UA-cam's DNA since the start. Now here we are almost 20 years later and it's still just game after game of people finding any and every excuse to complain about it; all while giving a free pass to other games that have the same or EVEN WORSE faults.
Sonic Formula does not stay in place for long...
SONIC DOESN'T STOP...
...If a Sonic Game wants to become an RPG, the whole idea of chaining platforming, momentum, parkour, dodging and consistency for the rankings together with elements of combat and different character combinations would guarantee it's either a brand new Hack'n'Slash or risk being _Sonic Chronicles : Dark Brotherhood_
**It's complicated, there's no easy answer, mix and match different mechanics, really**
...Because we were roleplaying as characters since Sonic 1.
Whatever stuff makes Sonic Characters show their true colours reflected through Chaos Emeralds, Sol Emeralds, Chaos Prism, Warp Topaz, Phantom Ruby or other Prismatics in the uni-multiverse(?)
*_*I want that*_*
Some of games important to the lore are on different consoles/systems
...And different Canons altogether.
_"So tell me, what makes you a unique Sonic's __-Rival-__ game?"_
Are you a Shadow? Chaos Control, Guns, or DOOM powers?
Are you a Blaze? Boosting with fire, doing tricks and being a Sonic Invert without being Sonic?
Are you a Surge? A electric derivative with a symbiotic relationship with a liquid-bender?
Are you a Amy, Fatal Florist with a Piko Market Garden Jumper on demand?
I feel like I forgot my point, extremely fitting for a Sonic Franchise.
I've seen only one game combine Halo Forge, Cars as whole playable characters, Farming, Kids game, Ninja Theory DmC combat, racing, skill trees, usable items, a Top-view brawler, a 3D platformer, a 2D platformer, Logic editor... **and that was Disney Infinity 3.0**
Wide as a ocean, deep as a puddle
Yeah! I'm really tired of people constantly assuming good ingredients will make a good product. Duct taping a bunch of nonsense together sometimes works, and sometimes it doesn't. It also depends on who you are and what you like!
Sonic R is literally platforming and racing duct taped together, and it's my all time favorite game!
Sonic R is a good idea for a racing game, but not many were interested. I like the replayability it has with the small content it offers for the tracks and the characters. The extra challenge of getting the chaos emeralds and the rival coins is something neat, to complete against Diddy Kong Racing's silver coin challenge, and Crash Team Racing's "CTR" letters and tokens to collect.
Though it certainly didn't do well compared to Mario Kart 64, Diddy Kong Racing, and Crash Team Racing for what they'd offered at the time for a cartoon racing game, as they'd missed out on the item idea (except Eggman rockets). Do think that Sonic R does still offer something different and does it own unquie thing, like with the soundtrack, the full 3D level design and it's own secrets and shortcuts that's unlocked with rings, racing in a platforming way, with its own effects shown on the Saturn. Don't think it's the worst game that Traveller's Tales made.
Without Sonic R, doubt that there would have been PenPen Trilcelon, Rayman M/Arena, the demake Rayman Rush, or even Mad Dash Racing for the Xbox Original, which did improve on that kind of racing genre. Heck, maybe even Fall Guys, as that seems like it could be inspired by those sort of games, too.
@@eastbeast1379 that's the thing, racing games don't *need* items; but racing games built for casual audiences rely on items for natural balancing and are popular enough to the point the specific Mario Kart gameplay style is seen as the norm for racing games -- despite even now there are multitudes of non item focused racing games. Comparing Sonic R to Mario Kart, or even most of the more casually focused racing games is pointless. But when stacked up against games like Daytona, Outrun, Virtua Racing, or other Arcade Style + Skill Focused titles: it balances quite well. The unusual controls, the course amount, replayability focus, high skill floor and higher skill ceiling, all point towards *not Mario kart* racing games 🤣
TEAM ALICE ALL THE WAY, BABY
ONLY THE TRUTH HERE.
FAX
"This is the meal we ended up with."
_Forces_
You forgot the meat (proper level structure and difficulty), and used cheap knockoff spices instead of the real thing (it pretends to appeal to the listed factors, but most definitely does not). The _concept_ was interesting, it's the _execution_ that stank to high heaven. Which is why I say '06 is a better game, since its only problem was that it wasn't heated up enough.
When you don't provide the time or proper parts, and just throw stuff together because people want it: it's not going to work.
Of course for the metaphor, they used generic/cheap spices. Of course they used discount meat if any at all. It was just like if you asked a bunch of third graders to pick out what they want for dinner and putting everything they say in a pot. SEGA wasn't setting out to deliver a coordinated masterpiece with the best possible parts to create an amazing whole: they were literally just making something to tide people over.
Hearing someone finally articulate the whole Japanese sonic supremacy
as being a bit annoying was fun to hear
Liking Japanese sonic is fine and all but the rejection of litterally anything else is so ridiculous imo.
The irony is, "Japanese Sonic" also includes games like Sonic Drift (literally only released in Japan), Tails Sky Patrol (literally only released in Japan), and every OTHER game written by a fully Japanese staff. The Mario and Sonic games are "JP Sonic", the Master System games are "JP Sonic", SONIC BLAST IS JP SONIC...
And funnily enough the games often praised as "JP Sonic"; IE, the adventure titles, were famously designed with international influence; SA2 was literally inspired by the developers working in California side by side with their American staff. Labeling "Good" as JP, and "Bad" as USA/EU is a very shortsighted mindset that's gotta change.
@@Hard_Pretzel Yea I know right
They complain about western influence like Sonic as a series hasn’t been Western influenced since the First designs.
Heck even the dragons in Superstars are based on westerns goofy dragons interpretations. The echidnas aren’t exactly based on Japanese tribes to my knowledge. Considering the tropical island theme.
Black knight is based on an English story about King Arthur a story So famously known for having the last Japanese sonic.
@@RaiginAnimator when the games are releasing for international audiences, they have international employees. There's a number of Sonic games that ONLY RELEASED in Japan; but none of these "JP Sonic" people are sweating over SEGASonic coming over 🤷🏻♀
i have no problems with sonic having an rpg
i just hate chronicles because the damn game kept crashing for me repeatedly. and i was playing on a 3ds! (Apparently it's a common issue on emulators, but i was using the damn game card.)
I'll definitely plan on making some chronicles content in the future, because I never had this issue when playing it! I had OTHER issues 🤣 LOTS OF THEM 😂 But technical failures weren't one of them.
But yeah, after what I've seen done with Yakuza, I'm definitely interested in seeing more RPG elements added to other franchises.
The perfect sonic game is actually Hyenas
Sonic is in it. It counts. 👍🏻
Bro,Sonic Runners is right there.
I genuinely miss this game so much. You have no idea.
@Hard_Pretzel All I want is the music style for this game to be used in a future Sonic game.
Just.One.Song
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is the poifect video. Great work mate! 😎👍
All Pretzel Videos Are Perfect,
No exceptions...
...except that one video we don't talk about. 🤐
@@Hard_Pretzel Indeed. We don't talk about that video.
There are only 5 mainline mario games
Here comes my secret weapon:
"NUH UH" 🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@Joegomoe , is that you, AmandaXVictoria?
What ones?
So the answer is: you can't. Because you can't make the perfect game for everyone at once. Who would have seen that coming 😐
honestly:
all the games are perfect (to someone, for some reason)
It's way more fun to hear why people love games I don't than it is so constantly complain about something that could be someone's favorite
Your editing quality is amazing.
Just wait till I finally finish a sneaky project I definitely haven't been working on for a certain thunder snake I know.
your editing is so good
@@user-uc5xr9hd9y thank you!! I spend a lot of time on it so it really means a lot when people enjoy it
BREAD!
BREAD!
Unleashed is my favorite Sonic game.
@@Sharpteeth32 it should be! if you like the stuff unleashed offers, unleashed is a perfect game for that! 😂
What a brilliant statement. And true.
@@Sharpteeth32 I wish people could just say "I like this" or "I don't like this" instead of PEAK PEAK PEAK and WORST GAME EVER IT LITERALLY STOLE MY KIDNEY
These games have impact, and value, and people enjoy them, even if they aren't my vibe directly.
@@Hard_Pretzel Unleashed _is_ peak.
But no game has ever stolen my kidney; mine don't work anyway.
Peak kino goated buzzword video mate
nah bro, YOU are the sauce soul JP aura 😭💖
Peak based fire 😭
WARIO’s ASS SHOOTS FLAMES 🔥
@@MuhammadIbrahim-hp4ld IT'S LORE 🗣️📣
Happy to play the new sonic game today
I HOPE YOU ENJOY IT!
I've been very pleasantly surprised. It's not my favorite obviously (Sonic R all the way baby) but the Shadow portion really fixed up most the issues I had with the original Generations.
So glad this wasn’t Unleashed glazing.
There is no such thing as Unleashed glazing when it is the pinnacle of gaming and games.
@@sandy_shark while I will happily glaze any game (even games I don't like personally) this video is definitely clowning on the crazy double standards and misdirected rage so many people have for this franchise 🤣
@@tempestpbkh it’s not
@@sandy_shark Nuh-uh. Don't know what you're talking...!
@@tempestpbkh 20 minute Werehog levels
Needless backtracking for medals that are required for the next level.
Quick time events
Tails Tornado levels
I don’t hate Unleashed, but it’s far from the best.
1:59 what song is that?
@@NebulaSon
It's "Skull Land" from the Master System game "Psycho Fox" ! One of my favorite songs from the game. It's also a very fun early platformer based entirely around the momentum you can build up. Served as a heavy precursor to what we got as Sonic!
I keep all my song names in the closed captions too btw!
@Hard_Pretzel Thanks 🙏
Experimental franchise. Like most of them. Favourite is Adventure 2 Battle.
@@eastbeast1379 my favorite part of the franchise is how much it experiments. so many different types of games. it's great
Whoa thumbnail update? (better clarification bonus)
@@HarmonyBunny not really! I had an A/B test running, and it concluded, picking the one that did better.
aw yeh my favourite subway content creator :D
Honestly, the subway sponsorship would go hard. They even have a footlong pretzel.
Still hoping for the Arizona sponsor though. 🤣
The editing is awesome, mad respect 👏
@@Squorzel thank you so much! I put way too much work into these things lol
@@Hard_Pretzel yeah, it’s pretty clear. Really cool work
10/10 on the editing 🔥
@@GamerJosh15 Thanks for watching!
3:57
No, I don’t think people think it like that.
using cheap buzzwords instead of just saying "I hate this game" is page one of the average sonic fan playbook 🤣
Sonic unleashed IS THE BEST SONIC GAME
Said everyone ever
(I mean it's no Sonic Adventure but it's aight I guess)
@@HarmonyBunny sonic adventure has worse controls and jank physics, and mech shooting, treasure hunting, amy and big stages are unenjoyable, unleashed clears, even the werehog is peak
@@SAMURAIPACK456 Werehog levels are slow platforming and button mashing pain and the daytime boost stages are linear and too confined. And medal collecting.
Also Adventure has 6 playable characters with different goals and it has the Chao Garden so it's automatically peak
@@HarmonyBunny werehog stages wasn’t trying to be fast, his combat is what makes unleashed an enjoyable game, it’s not button mashy cause A werehog has two buttons to attack, if you knew anything about the upgrade system you would know the werehog can have more combo’s and abilities, B the medal collecting argument is a skill issue, levels even in the start of the game you can see that medals are required for progression and yes the level design is linear so it would be piss easy for you to find those medals and it is linear because it’s literally the fast sonic game in the entire franchise no exaggeration.
As for the adventure games there is almost nothing fun about those 6 playable characters, knuckles stages are repetitive, big’s stages are repetitive and gama and amy stages are ok at best, the only other fun gameplay is tails other then that, sonic is sharing the game with 6 characters and only 2 of em out of the whole game are functionally ok with it’s gameplay, sonic adventure is not scratching top 5 best sonic games of all time, colours, generations, unleashed, shadow gens and sonic heroes take the top 5 spot
@@HarmonyBunny also the chao garden is just side content, i’d rather talk to NPC’s in unleashed then pretend to be a father of gum drop aliens
I LOVE Sonic 3D Blast
I LOVE Sonic 3D Blast
I LOVE Sonic 3D Blast
ALL THE HOMIES LOVE SONIC 3D BLAST
what music did you use for this video?
Turn on subtitles
As @HarmonyBunny said, All the song names are in the subtitles! I don't put the song names in the description because of AI scraping copyright bots. If there's a specific song you're looking for feel free to drop a timestamp!
I miss Pretzel
@@soupernatural5074 I miss soup
the perfect sonic game not you???? bro then why name the thumbnail that??????
A few reasons!
In a literal sense:
because YOU are not the perfect sonic game? 🤣
In a thematic sense:
YOUR idea of 'perfect' is not the same as someone else's idea of 'perfect' and what you like might not be what someone else likes; and vice versa.
In a direct sense:
Shadow and Sonic being in the thumbnails to represent the new Sonic X Shadow Generations game (available now!) and I'm directly stating "NOT YOU" as if I am telling the game itself that SxS is not the perfect sonic game ("YOU" being directed at the game) despite the praise the game has been getting because again, perfection is a subjective descriptor.
I also am running an A/B test with this thumbnail where the text can sometimes also read "NOT THIS" in case the narrative isn't clear enough from not only the thumbnail, but also the video, and the description.
S-S-So-So Shadow Gen video when?
I've been putting it off a for a few reasons,
namely that everyone and their dog has made videos about it, so what's the point in one more? 🤣
but also, the game is also still really new, and a lot of people (especially kids that have to wait for christmas) still haven't played it yet. No sense in potentially spoiling it.
@@Hard_Pretzel Fair point. About the spoilers, I've also been avoiding them like pest so that's noble.
@realshaiw I do what I can... unlike SOME ACCOUNTS (looking at you Mr Spoil Final Boss In The Thumbnail Sonictuber)
@@Hard_Pretzel Yeeep. I was victim of that...
@realshaiw Perks of retro gaming; it's already spoiled, or nobody cares 🤣
I do still try to avoid spoiling final bosses though, mostly just to be petty at these people 😂
idk i consider heroes mainline even though i think it fucking sucks and riders is a spinoff though it absolutely fucks
I say the same for frontiers tbh 😂
Being able to separate game quality from its status in the franchise is already a mile ahead most Sonic fans.
Great video go on❤❤
I spent way too long on this thing. I'd sure hope it's great 🤣
The best sonic game is a fusion betwen unleashed gens and sadlw gens
@@alu_sonic if you actually like boost sonic, definitely! 🤣
ily, never change
@@Appalach the goofy goober peanut party underpants are *never* coming off 💪🏻
Sonic unleashed = peak
I like both style the only critic I have are medals otherwise I love it I generally like most sonic games for their diversity I like so many of them except heroes
I love metal sonic but sonic heroes is doo doo in my opinion
@@clasherinotheone5249 honestly my favorite part of Sonic is just how many gameplay styles are represented through different games. Even if I'm not a fan of one in particular, every game is peak to someone
Eh, Unleashed is mid imo
Love this 🤣
Thank you!!! I work hard (not just a pun on my name, but also because I'm insane) on my videos and really appreciate my videos being appreciated! 💛
I hate that this was recommended to me.
@@jacobs1834 thank you for clicking and commenting anyway!
feel free to select "don't recommend this channel" to avoid more of my garbage!
Woah where was this guy in my feed??? Well im glad he is here now TAKE MY SUBSCRIPTION ❤️
@@SosadoesMusic Thank you so much!! 💖
I tend to fly under the radar due to the games I talk about (primarily ""bad"" games) and how I talk about them (having fun with them.) 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel good thing I like "bad" games 😝
@@SosadoesMusic funnily enough, so do a lot of people!! but nobody sticks up for us weirdos. 😂
It's always "this is the worst game ever made" "what were they thinking" and "MID!!! MID!!!" from people that never gave these games a fair shot! 🤣 It's a much smaller market to appeal to specifically only the people that are sick of current sonic discussion; but we're out here and hoping for the best!!
incredible video
happy to be of service ✌🏻
No it’s not it’s just sonic forces but good and that’s all it is good there is nothing else to it and the game is just forces levels design but good and that the problem because when you play sonic generations it’s when better and more to play
Then the shadow portion of it all the shadow portion is just gimmicks that’s it
@@joshuajohnson8386 That's what I'm saying. You can dress up anything you want with all the cheap gimmicks you want, but if you dont like the thing to begin with, you're just gonna have a thing dressed up with cheap gimmicks.
The game is "good", to the same people that thought so many other games were "bad"; just how this game is "bad" to a bunch of people that thought other games were "good". It's all tastes, opinions, and preferences. Just because frontiers is one of the greatest selling and highly praised games of all time isn't going to suddenly make me love it; but it also doesn't mean that just because I'm not a fan, nobody else enjoys it.
W video
W comment
Demasiada información cada 5 segundos
I design my videos around being able to rewatch them, and for people that like pausing/running back shorter videos to catch little details. IE: "Not a video essay as much as a video experience." It's definitely not for everyone though! Which is why there's millions of other Sonic videos out there that are the exact opposite of this!
There is also of course:
Settings (⚙) -> Playback Speed (▶) -> 0.5 🤣
@@Hard_Pretzel now I get it. Technically the video is shorter AND it gets more views 😌
@@_DanielPrieto Yeah! For the most part anyway.
I'm definitely sick of a lot of the current youtube-meta of just "padding for time" and posting these 2 hour videos that absolutely did not need to be 2 hours. If I could get a point across in 10 minutes, I'll do it. This definitely results in a much shorter video that people can come back to and reference later if they need it (very useful for my tutorial videos) or if they just want to throw something on while they're in the toilet.
While the views are definitely nice for my analytics, they really don't amount to much watchtime or ad revenue; so I definitely am mostly doing this just for my audience that is ALSO sick of current youtube content.
Comment to boost the algorithm before I watch the video
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
@@Hard_Pretzel No problem
If you haven't commented yet, comment
I don't wanna
@@TrueMinky You have no choice.
if you insist
Boost the algorithm chat 🗣🔥
Honestly, Sonic Unleashed is mid at best. Not even the PS3/360 versions won me over despite them being clearly superior to the PS2/Wii versions. I'll stick with Sonic Adventure any day.
They say Unleashed is peak, but have they actually gotten to Eggmanland? That world's a living nightmare.
that's the thing. If unleashed offers very little you enjoy, you're not going to enjoy it. If you don't care for linear boost gameplay, realworld inspired environments, and halfbaked combat; you're not going to care for unleashed.
Just how the people that overvalue linear boost gameplay, realworld inspired environments, and halfbaked combat; it'll be the peakest of all peak because it literally offers everything these specific people want.
Placing 'objective' labels on ANY game, good or bad, mid or peak, "worst game of all time" or "greatest game of all time"; is dismissive and limits discussion to WHY someone would or would not like something. Just because I can't stand eggmanland, doesn't mean I can't understand why others could see value in it (especially for speedrunners or glitch hunters)
@@Hard_Pretzel I guess Unleashed isn't my type of Sonic game then. I don't see why it's peak though, but it's their opinion.
@@HarmonyBunny Sonic R is peak to me, despite almost the entire planet thinking otherwise. 🤣
Same concept really. Sonic R has absolutely everything I want in a game, where other games don't even get CLOSE to delivering. Regardless of how awesome I think Sonic R is though, it wouldn't make sense for me to just say another game is "mid" when very obviously the "mid" game is just not for me.
And that's why Pizza Tower is the best Sonic game.
VOUCH!!! VOUCH!!!
It's not a Sonic game, though. Besides, it's more a Wario game than a Sonic game.
@@baalfgames5318 it's not???? but guy run fast and fight bad guy 😢
@@Hard_Pretzel So? He’s human. Plus, again, his style is more inspired by Wario than Sonic
@@baalfgames5318 what a lifechanging revelation that wario is not sonic?!?!? i cant wait to tell my facebook knitting group about this.
thank you for your help kind stranger. please have this delicious banana: 🍌
Boost gameplay is boring af
@@Kumlord it definitely can feel that way if you're not into that style of gameplay. But at the same time, subway surfers is an unstoppable mobile app for the same reasons.
When simplicity is valued, at the expense of those wanting more, simplicity is created.
Question for everyone.
What's your current favourite Sonic game?
Me personally, I'm a sucker for 06.
Get past the horrible camera and even worse controls, then it's actually a really fun story.
If you don't include Silver.
F*** that guy!
It's no surprise here, but I'm team Sonic R all the way. No other Sonic game gives you THAT level of control over your momentum and lets you carry it through turns.
I've got a softspot for 06 as well 🤣
Shadow campaign gotta be the worse for me.
Actually annoying.
Sonic and Silver is tolerable.
@@Ilikecats731 I just want more fishing. Is that too much to ask for? 🎣
@@Hard_Pretzel we need more big
@@Ilikecats731 #TeamBig
I think you give Sonic Team too much credit. What you call 'building on what's come before' I call 'throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks'.
@@Jonjooooo oh yeah I was totally taking the piss with that line because as highlighted later in the video, the "spinoffs" are where most of the """good""" mechanics come from, as well as the "spinoffs" being a crux for most major evolutions within the franchise.
While there's certainly an element of "see what sticks" to a lot of publishers and their games, one of the things I loved about Sonic is the willingness to genuinely experiment and change things up; even if I inevitably didn't enjoy the experiment
FIRST
NOTIFICATION GANG
Just hire a better writer than Flynn and I'll consider giving this series another chance.
@@FloofPuppy Lucky for you this series has had tons of other writers outside of Ian Flynn!!
He may be the writer for the most recent projects, but my Sonic Adventure disc still works and unless he comes to my house with a hammer, it'll keep working 💪🏻
You're one of those people who believed that Ian Flynn ruined the Sonic franchise.
I wish the "skip" button existed so I didn't have to watch these cutscenes at all.
Oh wait...
@@kenrichgumanid9235 "honey, it was ruined when they bought it 💅🏻" 🤣
@@Ivan210bluboi Sonic Adventure (Dreamcast) Doesn't let you skip the cutscenes because they're so good and perfect.
You act like everyone else is the opinion police, yet still get angry and insult me for "having no media literacy" for having held an opinion after a teaser trailer? Good to know I made the right decision to stop joining your streams, now to stop recommending your videos.
@@RandomAnimeGamer an "opinion" on a trailer is VERY DIFFERENT from falling for blind hype and allowing your unrealistic expectations dictate what "should have been" in the game.
Pro tip:
An *opinion* would be "I think this looks good" or "I think this looks bad" ; blind hype and unrealistic expectations would be "this is false advertising" or "I am actively choosing to ignore what they literally showed me along with any common sense in order to pretend the game I want is coming"
I don't police opinions; I judge unfair criticism and people using their uninformed purchases and unspoken biases in order to pretend they're a victim.
I hate all kinds of games, hating isn't an issue. Hating is an opinion. Slander, Libel or otherwise false claims designed to attack a publisher, developer, or voice actor, are actual crimes; and will be ""policed"" accordingly. You're welcome to hate my content, and hate me, as much as you like!
@Hard_Pretzel Except I never said any of that was an expectation or that I was a victim. I was trying to point out a decently relatable statement to you and chat and be chill. None of it was blind hype and you choosing to see it that way only shows how condescending you are towards those who once looked at you as a cool person. So much for "media literacy" when you couldn't be bothered for actual literacy then
@@Hard_Pretzel Maybe, just MAYBE you could afford to not use every fiber of your being to be condescending because someone saw something different in a thing you looked at. Because at the end of the day that IS an opinion. Especially when said opinion wasn't attacking the source material nor you, and yet you feel the need to attack someone else.
@@RandomAnimeGamer again, all I told you was that it was your own fault for being fooled and it was obvious it was not going to be what you expected. You expected something entirely different than what was shown. If the teaser doesn't show something, don't expect that thing anyway. That's it. Insisting it's "relatable" when it's only relatable to those also wearing hype goggles doesn't make it any more relatable.
Just how you "thought I was cool", don't let your expectations lead you to believe I was anything other than what I am. I have, and always have been, antagonistic towards this behavior. I'm chill with the chill, and condescending to the condescending.
Everyone has biases, hopes, and expectations; it's just how you wear them that makes the difference.
@@Hard_Pretzel It's not about being "fooled" or expecting something that was "obviously not what was going to happen". It's about how a trailer with minimal information conveyed a different message to two audiences. I wasn't "hype" for anything, I just was hoping for something and it wasn't that.
I thought you were cool because your videos were well thought out and you were generally a cool guy to be around and talk to. It's called information can be conveyed one way and received another by human beings. Maybe that's beyond your comprehension, since you feel everyone's just blind and you aren't.
I wasn't condescending towards you in that stream yet you went full force on it with me. I didn't "hold" that expectation in any way besides basic conversation, of which I even recognized was incorrect in said stream.
You were antagonistic towards me for the *same exact thing* you accused others (including me) of. You saw a piece of information conveyed in a specific way, and received it *differently than intended*, and you reacted harshly towards it. That's on you my guy, maybe you need to take a look at yourself and consider that you're just as human as everyone else, and just as prone to mistakes.
Or you can just be a typical redditor and think everyone else is an idiot and you're impervious to anything.