@@DaScripturePlug.AlbertI asked my question several times in the live chat and you run away from my question. I will ask you the question again. Why christian read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Christian context to suit your needs? Why don't you read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Jewish Context? I challenge all of you and Anthony Rogers to read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Jewish context.
I love thay they're discussing the most important and most significant day that ever occurred, nothing will ever be as magnificent as that devine Day of the LORD! It can't be beat in everyone ever born's life!❤ Until His return! 🙏 Pray for me and my family, that we will be saved❤ I long to see Jesus
@DaScripturePlug.Albert ok cool thanks. One last question Leif looks familiar was he at the seek and truth convention this year don't answer of course if it top secret
How come God didn't know something and needed to be told something by God in the beginning of Revelation ? Did the Holy Spirit God know the day and hour or just the Father ? How come the Holy Spirit God is never mentioned in places he should be mentioned, is he the shy part of God ? If Jesus says he's the beginning of the creation of God, how is he eternal ?
Where do you think the Holy Spirit should be mentioned that He’s not? Cause I’d think He’s mentioned everywhere He intended Himself to be as He’s the one who inspired the authorship of the books of the Bible.. Which He let us know in many places he was God like Acts 5 and Matthew 28: 16… What do you think God didn’t know that God told Him? Does the Bible tell us If the Holy Spirit knew the day or the hour ? Is that what Jesus says or if you look into the Greek and the totality of the Bible will you see Jesus claims to be preexisting In John 8: 58, John calls Him eternal in the intro of John, and the Father called Him the eternal Creator YHWH in Hebrews 1: 8-12…. So if you’d like to actually engage we can go point by point but actually make an argument
Uncommon Sense Christianity got so embarrassed by this debate/convo with Anthony Rogers that he has "rage quit" on his channel. Saying I'm never going on that channel again. Telling his viewers not to go on the channel. Saying he is going to mute and block trinitarians in his comments section. While calling Sam and others only want echo chambers. The unholy irony of U.S.C.
@DaScripturePlug.Albert I asked my question several times in the live chat and you run away from my question. I will ask you the question again. Why christian read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Christian context to suit your needs? Why don't you read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Jewish Context? I challenge all of you and Anthony Rogers to read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Jewish context.
The Bible Jews use has certain verses omitted , which is highly disappointing ie when Joshua meets the Commander of the LORD'S army, I guess it destroys their anti - Messianic message.
Christians use the trinity to try to ‘prove’ a trinity. Their approach is circular and ad hoc. I can break down their fallacies. You don’t even need to argue over interpretations to refute them. You can simply demonstrate the incoherence of their presuppositions for their ‘argument’.
John 8: 54Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ 55 But you have not known him. 👉I know him. >>>Jesus plainly emphasising the Father as God >Jesus said 👉he knew GOD , he wasnt saying here he WAS God , the translation here "I am " is "ego eimi" which means "I am", "I exist" , so Jesus was merely saying before Abraham was born he had been in existence . That's it ! All of the context in John 8-10 is Jesus arguing he was the SON of GOD .
@@dazzadizzy5308 You don’t understand. The Son is the triune God.🥴🤣 If God is triune. The Son must be the same God of Anthony Rogers. He must be a triune God. Anthony Rogers made the Son a triune or tripersonal God.🤣 This is the ‘logic’ of these trinitarians.
@@dazzadizzy5308 They invent a trinity to interpret these verses. If Jesus would explicitly say that he is not God on each and every page of the bible. Trinitarians would claim that he is only speaking in his human nature.🤣 You can’t argue with trinitarians. They will try to make anything to try to ‘make it work’. That’s how their brain works. They are conditioned to do these absurd moves.
@dazzadizzy5308 You are already conceding the key point. Before Abraham was born God Existed. Before Abraham was born "I Am" Without a Body, He Existed, Before Abraham.
USC's arguments are so silly, and they fall apart when applying his own standard to his own arguments. USC says "you will never find scripture say God is three PERSONS" But you will never find scripture say God is One PERSON. USC says "Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE SON" But Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE FATHER" USC says you will never find "THE SON" Worshipped in the old testament. But you will never find "THE FATHER" Worshipped in the old testament. God is "our Father" And "Our Father" is THE Father, THE Son and THE Holy Spirit.
@@LeifOfaVineEternal no LOL , son of God yes that can be said , spirit of God yes that too but Father of God uhhh nope because the Father IS God what you can say is God the Father because that has been used also God and Father of Jesus which has been used too. NO WHERE does it say God is 3 people or "persons" even though you mean people !!
@@dazzadizzy5308 why don't you respond to what my friend UncommonVirtue777 said instead of spazzing out. To quote him, "you will never find scripture say God is One PERSON." it's evident who your father is, based on the lies you continue to espouse. I pray that God softens your heart and opens your eyes
Sorry boy Anthony Rogers is wrong and I come with receipts! @Uncommonvirtue777 "USC's arguments are so silly, and they fall apart when applying his own standard to his own arguments. USC says "you will never find scripture say God is three PERSONS" But you will never find scripture say God is One PERSON. USC says "Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE SON" But Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE FATHER" USC says you will never find "THE SON" Worshipped in the old testament. But you will never find "THE FATHER" Worshipped in the old testament. God is "our Father" And "Our Father" is THE Father, THE Son and THE Holy Spirit." Anthony Rogers argument is "Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE FATHER"". But it would not say "The Father" because it was a different convenient and in that convenient God the Father was address by the entire nation as a collective unlike the new convenient witch is direct spiritual communion with God the Father. This goes with out say that in the new convenient we call him "The Father or God the The Father". Keep in mind the time span between Moses and Jesus is approximately 1,500 years. Moses is traditionally believed to have lived around the 13th century BCE (circa 1400 BCE), while Jesus was born around the 1st century CE (circa 4-5 BCE). People are not suck stagnate in time and langue is progressive and the term that are giving to a subject or the way titles are handed out change over time. but in the old convenient of the old testament this is how they addressed God the Father. Isaiah: our Father Moses: your Father Psalm: "A father" to the fatherless Jeremiah: I thought you would call me 'Father' Malachi: Have we not all one Father? and in fact if you go through the old testament God the Father Himself will claim is the Father of his chosen people. So now we see God the Father in the old testament being called "Father" by His people and prophets. However you know what you don't find in the old or new testament? The Doctrine of the Trinity. No where in scripture are you going to find a singular common essence (witch is the oneness that is God) in 3 distinct persons (witch person themselves are not God because that would mean you have 3 God + the oneness that is God, lol). And we know these people were no calling Jesus "Father" because Jesus had to GO through creation for his completion. The people were talking to God the Father who was self-existent and as so has never needed completion. Now ask yourselves how can Jesus be the uncreated God who created everything if he has to go through creation for his own completion! Just further proving there is no Trinity. While the specific title "The Father" is not frequently used for God in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament, there are several passages where God's paternal relationship with His people is highlighted. Here are a few examples: 1. Deuteronomy 32:6: "Is this the way you repay the Lord, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?" 2. Isaiah 63:16: "But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name." 3. Isaiah 64:8: "Yet you, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand." 4. Psalm 68:5: "A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling." 5. Jeremiah 3:19: "I myself said, 'How gladly would I treat you like my children and give you a pleasant land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.' I thought you would call me 'Father' and not turn away from following me." 6. Malachi 2:10: "Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?" 7. Exodus 4:22: "Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son.'" 8. Hosea 11:1: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son." 9. Jeremiah 31:9: "They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel’s father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son." 10. Deuteronomy 1:31: "and in the wilderness. There you saw how the Lord your God carried you, as a father carries his son, all the way you went until you reached this place." 11. Proverbs 3:12: "because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in." 12. Isaiah 1:2: "Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth! For the Lord has spoken: 'I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.'" 13. Deuteronomy 32:18: "You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth." 14. Psalm 103:13: "As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him." 15. Malachi 1:6: "'A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?' says the Lord Almighty."
@@dazzadizzy5308 don't let them try and fool you! "USC's arguments are so silly, and they fall apart when applying his own standard to his own arguments." USC says: "You will never find scripture say God is three PERSONS." But you will never find scripture say God is one PERSON. "Nowhere in Genesis does it say 'THE SON.'" But nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE FATHER." "You will never find 'THE SON' worshipped in the Old Testament." But you will never find "THE FATHER" worshipped in the Old Testament. God is "our Father," and "Our Father" is THE Father, THE Son, and THE Holy Spirit. Me: Anthony Rogers' argument is: "Nowhere in Genesis does it say 'THE FATHER.'" But it would not say "The Father" because it was a different covenant, and in that covenant, God the Father was addressed by the entire nation collectively, unlike the new covenant, which is direct spiritual communion with God the Father. This goes without saying that in the new covenant, we call Him "The Father" or "God the Father." Keep in mind, the time span between Moses and Jesus is approximately 1,500 years. Moses is traditionally believed to have lived around the 13th century BCE (circa 1400 BCE), while Jesus was born around the 1st century CE (circa 4-5 BCE). People are not stagnant in time, and language is progressive. The terms given to a subject or the way titles are handed out change over time, but in the old covenant of the Old Testament, this is how they addressed God the Father: Isaiah: "our Father" Moses: "your Father" Psalms: "a father to the fatherless" Jeremiah: "I thought you would call me 'Father'" Malachi: "Have we not all one Father?" In fact, if you go through the Old Testament, God the Father Himself will claim to be the Father of His chosen people. So now we see God the Father in the Old Testament being called "Father" by His people and prophets. However, you know what you don’t find in the Old or New Testament? The Doctrine of the Trinity. Nowhere in scripture are you going to find a singular common essence (which is the oneness that is God) in three distinct persons (which persons themselves are not God because that would mean you have three Gods + the oneness that is God, lol). We know these people were not calling Jesus "Father" because Jesus had to go through creation for His completion. The people were talking to God the Father, who was self-existent and has never needed completion. Now ask yourselves: How can Jesus be the uncreated God who created everything if He has to go through creation for His own completion? This further proves there is no Trinity. While the specific title "The Father" is not frequently used for God in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament, there are several passages where God's paternal relationship with His people is highlighted. Here are a few examples: Deuteronomy 32:6: "Is this the way you repay the Lord, you foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?" Isaiah 63:16: "But You are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; You, Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is Your name." Isaiah 64:8: "Yet You, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, You are the potter; we are all the work of Your hand." Psalm 68:5: "A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in His holy dwelling." Jeremiah 3:19: "I myself said, 'How gladly would I treat you like my children and give you a pleasant land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.' I thought you would call me 'Father' and not turn away from following me." Malachi 2:10: "Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?" Exodus 4:22: "Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son.'" Hosea 11:1: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son." Jeremiah 31:9: "They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel’s father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son." Deuteronomy 1:31: "There you saw how the Lord your God carried you, as a father carries his son, all the way you went until you reached this place." Proverbs 3:12: "Because the Lord disciplines those He loves, as a father the son He delights in." Isaiah 1:2: "Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth! For the Lord has spoken: 'I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.'" Deuteronomy 32:18: "You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth." Psalm 103:13: "As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear Him." Malachi 1:6: "'A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?' says the Lord Almighty."
Jesus raised the body , Father raised the spirit as in that is what Jesus became because Jesus DID die , there wasnt another Jesus watching over the human Jesus ready to raise him up , that would mean there was Father/spirit/sonx2 making FOUR people in your God . The Father saved Jesus and Jesus became his original form ! Jesus then had the power to perform a miracle to "raise the temple" and show the disciples a physical living form to show he was truly saved ! Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle-sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead. Was Paul lying ? Paul was taught directly by Jesus so he would know!
Jesus said Rev 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. SEE? Jesus was DEAD , Jesus did NOT bring himself back to life ! This is why he said of himself "I am the first and the last" he was first born into the new creation and now had the power to raise all to the very last.
@@ChristApologetics01 It's not the spirit of Jesus , Jesus became the spirit form he was before , God didnt raise Jesus just to become a human again that purpose was done , Jesus became his human form as a visible means to show the disciples it was truly him and all that he said was true. Not MY theory and the theories and gibberish coming from Anthony are false , Jesus did indeed die , it was the Father that brought him back to life , Jesus said so himself "I was dead and now I'm alive" Rev 1:18
@@ChristApologetics01 Not according to my theology , yes Jesus was only human not in any dual form , otherwise you have (in your theology) Father , two sons both spirit and human and a spirit ) thats 4 !! did Jesus resurrect Jesus to meet Jesus up in heaven?!
I have to correct Rogers. ‘In Hebrew, there is a common grammatical construct called a ‘construct phrase’. In a construct phrase, two nouns are set side by side and have a possessive relationship. For example, the Hebrew phrase Malakh Yahweh consists of two nouns. Malakh means messenger. Yahweh is the name of god. The construct phrase is translated as ‘the angel of the lord’. Translators need to add some words that do not appear in the Hebrew text because Hebrew and English have different grammatical rules. In particular, in English we add the definite article ‘The’ to the phrase. Unfortunately, this addition can give the impression that the phrase ‘the angel of the lord’ serves as someone’s name or title. The ‘the’ in the phrase really just means ‘the one in question at this time’. In other words it is not correct to assume that ‘the angel of the lord’ always refer to the same person. Consider a different construct phrase in Hebrew, ebed Yahweh. Ebed means servant. So this phrase translates to ‘the servant of the Lord.’ This is a description that is used of both Moses (Deut 43:5) and Joshua (Judg 2:8). Now, no one concludes that Moses is Joshua. They are two different people, yet both are ebed Yahweh (the servant of the lord). Likewise, more than one figure is called Malakh Yahweh (The angel of the Lord).’
Rogers pretends to be an expert in Hebrew. He can’t even speak it. He tries to overrule linguistic experts in Hebrew and Canaanite language. I catch him with so many lies. The guy just makes things up on the spot. He thinks he can get away with it.
if that is the case, why is "YHWH"/"God" and "the angel of YHWH/God" used interchangeably when referring to the same figure all throughout the OT (e.g. Exodus 13:21 says YHWH is in the pillar of cloud/fire, then Exodus 14:21 says it is the "angel of God" in the pillar)? Why does "malakh YHWH" accept Manoah's sacrifice as told in Judges 13:15-23, why is He called "God" in verse 22, and identified as YHWH in verse 23? Deal with the scriptures that we brought up on stream, and your example about Moses/Joshua is pitiful. Nowhere in scripture does it say that either Moses or Joshua are YHWH, so your attempt at a gotcha moment is kaput. to your point about 'the' being added, that doesn't take away from the fact that there is a recurring figure in the OT, "malakh YHWH" that is routinely called God/YHWH time and time again
@@LeifOfaVineEternal If God is speaking through an angel then YHWH is speaking , the person will be addressing YHWH not the angel , like a phone if someone is speaking to me via the phone I am still speaking to the one talking through the phone and addressing them by their name . The angel in Judges was called "elohim" which you are referring to in Judges 13 , angels have been called that before , take Psalms 8:5 look at the Hebrews interlinear for both Judges and Psalms .
@@LeifOfaVineEternal Your arguments are weak. If we accept your weak arguments. Moses should also be god. ‘You have not eaten bread, and you have not drunk wine or strong drink, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.’ Moses is speaking here. Is Moses God? If we apply your ‘methodology’. Moses is Yahweh as well.🥴 You are not making a logical argument. You are trying to IDENTIFY The angel of the Lord with Yahweh. Who is Yahweh? What is the identity of Yahweh? Is Yahweh the triune God? Is the Angel of the lord the triune God? If you accept the law of identity. Your ‘methodology’ leads to logical contradictions. You are just trying to discuss based on presuppositions. Who is Yahweh? You claim that the angel of the lord is identical to Yahweh? Is Yahweh the triune God? The angel of the lord is identical to the triune God?
Like your channel. What streaming software you guys use?
Streamyard. Thanks and God bless you.
@@DaScripturePlug.AlbertI asked my question several times in the live chat and you run away from my question. I will ask you the question again. Why christian read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Christian context to suit your needs? Why don't you read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Jewish Context? I challenge all of you and Anthony Rogers to read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Jewish context.
@ thank you brother
@ like your stream by the way
I love thay they're discussing the most important and most significant day that ever occurred, nothing will ever be as magnificent as that devine Day of the LORD! It can't be beat in everyone ever born's life!❤ Until His return! 🙏 Pray for me and my family, that we will be saved❤ I long to see Jesus
Is the event you posted in May only going to be on the internet or is it something you can attend in person
I believe it’s only online facebook conference
@DaScripturePlug.Albert ok cool thanks. One last question Leif looks familiar was he at the seek and truth convention this year don't answer of course if it top secret
@@crossexaminingscriptures4094 yes he was there. Thats where we all met. Thats where I met Yousif as well.
@@DaScripturePlug.Albert great thanks for answering. People look different on camera sometimes
@@crossexaminingscriptures4094 that I was, although it looks like Albert beat me to it lol
How come God didn't know something and needed to be told something by God in the beginning of Revelation ? Did the Holy Spirit God know the day and hour or just the Father ? How come the Holy Spirit God is never mentioned in places he should be mentioned, is he the shy part of God ? If Jesus says he's the beginning of the creation of God, how is he eternal ?
Where do you think the Holy Spirit should be mentioned that He’s not? Cause I’d think He’s mentioned everywhere He intended Himself to be as He’s the one who inspired the authorship of the books of the Bible.. Which He let us know in many places he was God like Acts 5 and Matthew 28: 16…
What do you think God didn’t know that God told Him? Does the Bible tell us If the Holy Spirit knew the day or the hour ? Is that what Jesus says or if you look into the Greek and the totality of the Bible will you see Jesus claims to be preexisting In John 8: 58, John calls Him eternal in the intro of John, and the Father called Him the eternal Creator YHWH in Hebrews 1: 8-12….
So if you’d like to actually engage we can go point by point but actually make an argument
Uncommon Sense Christianity got so embarrassed by this debate/convo with Anthony Rogers that he has "rage quit" on his channel. Saying I'm never going on that channel again. Telling his viewers not to go on the channel. Saying he is going to mute and block trinitarians in his comments section. While calling Sam and others only want echo chambers. The unholy irony of U.S.C.
@DaScripturePlug.Albert I asked my question several times in the live chat and you run away from my question. I will ask you the question again. Why christian read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Christian context to suit your needs? Why don't you read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Jewish Context? I challenge all of you and Anthony Rogers to read the Hebrew Jewish Tanakh in Jewish context.
Because I'm not Jewish...... Messianic Jews do all the time.
@@DaScripturePlug.Albert💯 %
The Bible Jews use has certain verses omitted , which is highly disappointing ie when Joshua meets the Commander of the LORD'S army, I guess it destroys their anti - Messianic message.
Christians use the trinity to try to ‘prove’ a trinity.
Their approach is circular and ad hoc.
I can break down their fallacies.
You don’t even need to argue over interpretations to refute them. You can simply demonstrate the incoherence of their presuppositions for their ‘argument’.
@Ismail-lk7mggo on then 😂
John 8: 54Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ 55 But you have not known him. 👉I know him.
>>>Jesus plainly emphasising the Father as God >Jesus said 👉he knew GOD , he wasnt saying here he WAS God , the translation here "I am " is "ego eimi" which means "I am", "I exist" , so Jesus was merely saying before Abraham was born he had been in existence . That's it ! All of the context in John 8-10 is Jesus arguing he was the SON of GOD .
@@dazzadizzy5308
You don’t understand.
The Son is the triune God.🥴🤣
If God is triune. The Son must be the same God of Anthony Rogers. He must be a triune God.
Anthony Rogers made the Son a triune or tripersonal God.🤣
This is the ‘logic’ of these trinitarians.
@Ismail-lk7mg 😏
@Ismail-lk7mg Trinitarian is english term derived from the words of dumb+ass+pagan
@@dazzadizzy5308
They invent a trinity to interpret these verses. If Jesus would explicitly say that he is not God on each and every page of the bible. Trinitarians would claim that he is only speaking in his human nature.🤣
You can’t argue with trinitarians. They will try to make anything to try to ‘make it work’. That’s how their brain works.
They are conditioned to do these absurd moves.
@dazzadizzy5308 You are already conceding the key point. Before Abraham was born God Existed. Before Abraham was born "I Am"
Without a Body, He Existed, Before Abraham.
USC's arguments are so silly, and they fall apart when applying his own standard to his own arguments.
USC says "you will never find scripture say God is three PERSONS"
But you will never find scripture say God is One PERSON.
USC says "Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE SON"
But Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE FATHER"
USC says you will never find "THE SON" Worshipped in the old testament.
But you will never find "THE FATHER" Worshipped in the old testament.
God is "our Father"
And "Our Father" is THE Father, THE Son and THE Holy Spirit.
got 'em!
@@LeifOfaVineEternal no LOL , son of God yes that can be said , spirit of God yes that too but Father of God uhhh nope because the Father IS God what you can say is God the Father because that has been used also God and Father of Jesus which has been used too. NO WHERE does it say God is 3 people or "persons" even though you mean people !!
@@dazzadizzy5308 why don't you respond to what my friend UncommonVirtue777 said instead of spazzing out.
To quote him, "you will never find scripture say God is One PERSON."
it's evident who your father is, based on the lies you continue to espouse. I pray that God softens your heart and opens your eyes
Sorry boy Anthony Rogers is wrong and I come with receipts!
@Uncommonvirtue777
"USC's arguments are so silly, and they fall apart when applying his own standard to his own arguments.
USC says "you will never find scripture say God is three PERSONS"
But you will never find scripture say God is One PERSON.
USC says "Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE SON"
But Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE FATHER"
USC says you will never find "THE SON" Worshipped in the old testament.
But you will never find "THE FATHER" Worshipped in the old testament.
God is "our Father"
And "Our Father" is THE Father, THE Son and THE Holy Spirit."
Anthony Rogers argument is "Nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE FATHER"".
But it would not say "The Father" because it was a different convenient and in that convenient God the Father was address by the entire nation as a collective unlike the new convenient witch is direct spiritual communion with God the Father.
This goes with out say that in the new convenient we call him "The Father or God the The Father".
Keep in mind the time span between Moses and Jesus is approximately 1,500 years. Moses is traditionally believed to have lived around the 13th century BCE (circa 1400 BCE), while Jesus was born around the 1st century CE (circa 4-5 BCE). People are not suck stagnate in time and langue is progressive and the term that are giving to a subject or the way titles are handed out change over time.
but in the old convenient of the old testament this is how they addressed God the Father.
Isaiah: our Father
Moses: your Father
Psalm: "A father" to the fatherless
Jeremiah: I thought you would call me 'Father'
Malachi: Have we not all one Father?
and in fact if you go through the old testament God the Father Himself will claim is the Father of his chosen people.
So now we see God the Father in the old testament being called "Father" by His people and prophets.
However you know what you don't find in the old or new testament? The Doctrine of the Trinity. No where in scripture are you going to find a singular common essence (witch is the oneness that is God) in 3 distinct persons (witch person themselves are not God because that would mean you have 3 God + the oneness that is God, lol).
And we know these people were no calling Jesus "Father" because Jesus had to GO through creation for his completion. The people were talking to God the Father who was self-existent and as so has never needed completion. Now ask yourselves how can Jesus be the uncreated God who created everything if he has to go through creation for his own completion!
Just further proving there is no Trinity.
While the specific title "The Father" is not frequently used for God in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament, there are several passages where God's paternal relationship with His people is highlighted. Here are a few examples:
1. Deuteronomy 32:6: "Is this the way you repay the Lord, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?"
2. Isaiah 63:16: "But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name."
3. Isaiah 64:8: "Yet you, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand."
4. Psalm 68:5: "A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling."
5. Jeremiah 3:19: "I myself said, 'How gladly would I treat you like my children and give you a pleasant land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.' I thought you would call me 'Father' and not turn away from following me."
6. Malachi 2:10: "Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?"
7. Exodus 4:22: "Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son.'"
8. Hosea 11:1: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son."
9. Jeremiah 31:9: "They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel’s father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son."
10. Deuteronomy 1:31: "and in the wilderness. There you saw how the Lord your God carried you, as a father carries his son, all the way you went until you reached this place."
11. Proverbs 3:12: "because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in."
12. Isaiah 1:2: "Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth! For the Lord has spoken: 'I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.'"
13. Deuteronomy 32:18: "You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth."
14. Psalm 103:13: "As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him."
15. Malachi 1:6: "'A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?' says the Lord Almighty."
@@dazzadizzy5308 don't let them try and fool you!
"USC's arguments are so silly, and they fall apart when applying his own standard to his own arguments."
USC says:
"You will never find scripture say God is three PERSONS."
But you will never find scripture say God is one PERSON.
"Nowhere in Genesis does it say 'THE SON.'"
But nowhere in Genesis does it say "THE FATHER."
"You will never find 'THE SON' worshipped in the Old Testament."
But you will never find "THE FATHER" worshipped in the Old Testament.
God is "our Father," and "Our Father" is THE Father, THE Son, and THE Holy Spirit.
Me:
Anthony Rogers' argument is:
"Nowhere in Genesis does it say 'THE FATHER.'"
But it would not say "The Father" because it was a different covenant, and in that covenant, God the Father was addressed by the entire nation collectively, unlike the new covenant, which is direct spiritual communion with God the Father. This goes without saying that in the new covenant, we call Him "The Father" or "God the Father."
Keep in mind, the time span between Moses and Jesus is approximately 1,500 years. Moses is traditionally believed to have lived around the 13th century BCE (circa 1400 BCE), while Jesus was born around the 1st century CE (circa 4-5 BCE). People are not stagnant in time, and language is progressive. The terms given to a subject or the way titles are handed out change over time, but in the old covenant of the Old Testament, this is how they addressed God the Father:
Isaiah: "our Father"
Moses: "your Father"
Psalms: "a father to the fatherless"
Jeremiah: "I thought you would call me 'Father'"
Malachi: "Have we not all one Father?"
In fact, if you go through the Old Testament, God the Father Himself will claim to be the Father of His chosen people.
So now we see God the Father in the Old Testament being called "Father" by His people and prophets. However, you know what you don’t find in the Old or New Testament? The Doctrine of the Trinity.
Nowhere in scripture are you going to find a singular common essence (which is the oneness that is God) in three distinct persons (which persons themselves are not God because that would mean you have three Gods + the oneness that is God, lol).
We know these people were not calling Jesus "Father" because Jesus had to go through creation for His completion. The people were talking to God the Father, who was self-existent and has never needed completion.
Now ask yourselves: How can Jesus be the uncreated God who created everything if He has to go through creation for His own completion?
This further proves there is no Trinity.
While the specific title "The Father" is not frequently used for God in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament, there are several passages where God's paternal relationship with His people is highlighted. Here are a few examples:
Deuteronomy 32:6: "Is this the way you repay the Lord, you foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?"
Isaiah 63:16: "But You are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; You, Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is Your name."
Isaiah 64:8: "Yet You, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, You are the potter; we are all the work of Your hand."
Psalm 68:5: "A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in His holy dwelling."
Jeremiah 3:19: "I myself said, 'How gladly would I treat you like my children and give you a pleasant land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.' I thought you would call me 'Father' and not turn away from following me."
Malachi 2:10: "Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?"
Exodus 4:22: "Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son.'"
Hosea 11:1: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son."
Jeremiah 31:9: "They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel’s father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son."
Deuteronomy 1:31: "There you saw how the Lord your God carried you, as a father carries his son, all the way you went until you reached this place."
Proverbs 3:12: "Because the Lord disciplines those He loves, as a father the son He delights in."
Isaiah 1:2: "Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth! For the Lord has spoken: 'I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.'"
Deuteronomy 32:18: "You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth."
Psalm 103:13: "As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear Him."
Malachi 1:6: "'A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?' says the Lord Almighty."
Jesus raised the body , Father raised the spirit as in that is what Jesus became because Jesus DID die , there wasnt another Jesus watching over the human Jesus ready to raise him up , that would mean there was Father/spirit/sonx2 making FOUR people in your God .
The Father saved Jesus and Jesus became his original form !
Jesus then had the power to perform a miracle to "raise the temple" and show the disciples a physical living form to show he was truly saved !
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle-sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.
Was Paul lying ? Paul was taught directly by Jesus so he would know!
Jesus said Rev 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
SEE? Jesus was DEAD , Jesus did NOT bring himself back to life ! This is why he said of himself "I am the first and the last" he was first born into the new creation and now had the power to raise all to the very last.
Where did the Spirit of Jesus go or do while the Body of Jesus was dead according to your theology? (Honest Q)
@@ChristApologetics01 It's not the spirit of Jesus , Jesus became the spirit form he was before , God didnt raise Jesus just to become a human again that purpose was done , Jesus became his human form as a visible means to show the disciples it was truly him and all that he said was true. Not MY theory and the theories and gibberish coming from Anthony are false , Jesus did indeed die , it was the Father that brought him back to life , Jesus said so himself "I was dead and now I'm alive" Rev 1:18
@dazzadizzy5308 so when Jesus was on earth was he only human according to your (theology or presupposion)?
@@ChristApologetics01 Not according to my theology , yes Jesus was only human not in any dual form , otherwise you have (in your theology) Father , two sons both spirit and human and a spirit ) thats 4 !! did Jesus resurrect Jesus to meet Jesus up in heaven?!
I have to correct Rogers.
‘In Hebrew, there is a common grammatical construct called a ‘construct phrase’. In a construct phrase, two nouns are set side by side and have a possessive relationship. For example, the Hebrew phrase Malakh Yahweh consists of two nouns. Malakh means messenger. Yahweh is the name of god. The construct phrase is translated as ‘the angel of the lord’. Translators need to add some words that do not appear in the Hebrew text because Hebrew and English have different grammatical rules. In particular, in English we add the definite article ‘The’ to the phrase. Unfortunately, this addition can give the impression that the phrase ‘the angel of the lord’ serves as someone’s name or title. The ‘the’ in the phrase really just means ‘the one in question at this time’. In other words it is not correct to assume that ‘the angel of the lord’ always refer to the same person.
Consider a different construct phrase in Hebrew, ebed Yahweh. Ebed means servant. So this phrase translates to ‘the servant of the Lord.’ This is a description that is used of both Moses (Deut 43:5) and Joshua (Judg 2:8). Now, no one concludes that Moses is Joshua. They are two different people, yet both are ebed Yahweh (the servant of the lord).
Likewise, more than one figure is called Malakh Yahweh (The angel of the Lord).’
Rogers pretends to be an expert in Hebrew. He can’t even speak it. He tries to overrule linguistic experts in Hebrew and Canaanite language.
I catch him with so many lies. The guy just makes things up on the spot. He thinks he can get away with it.
@Ismail-lk7mg It's because trinitarian has come from an old latin term translated as Dumb , Ass and Pagan ☺
if that is the case, why is "YHWH"/"God" and "the angel of YHWH/God" used interchangeably when referring to the same figure all throughout the OT (e.g. Exodus 13:21 says YHWH is in the pillar of cloud/fire, then Exodus 14:21 says it is the "angel of God" in the pillar)? Why does "malakh YHWH" accept Manoah's sacrifice as told in Judges 13:15-23, why is He called "God" in verse 22, and identified as YHWH in verse 23?
Deal with the scriptures that we brought up on stream, and your example about Moses/Joshua is pitiful. Nowhere in scripture does it say that either Moses or Joshua are YHWH, so your attempt at a gotcha moment is kaput.
to your point about 'the' being added, that doesn't take away from the fact that there is a recurring figure in the OT, "malakh YHWH" that is routinely called God/YHWH time and time again
@@LeifOfaVineEternal If God is speaking through an angel then YHWH is speaking , the person will be addressing YHWH not the angel , like a phone if someone is speaking to me via the phone I am still speaking to the one talking through the phone and addressing them by their name . The angel in Judges was called "elohim" which you are referring to in Judges 13 , angels have been called that before , take Psalms 8:5 look at the Hebrews interlinear for both Judges and Psalms .
@@LeifOfaVineEternal
Your arguments are weak. If we accept your weak arguments. Moses should also be god.
‘You have not eaten bread, and you have not drunk wine or strong drink, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.’
Moses is speaking here. Is Moses God?
If we apply your ‘methodology’. Moses is Yahweh as well.🥴
You are not making a logical argument.
You are trying to IDENTIFY The angel of the Lord with Yahweh. Who is Yahweh? What is the identity of Yahweh?
Is Yahweh the triune God?
Is the Angel of the lord the triune God?
If you accept the law of identity. Your ‘methodology’ leads to logical contradictions.
You are just trying to discuss based on presuppositions.
Who is Yahweh? You claim that the angel of the lord is identical to Yahweh? Is Yahweh the triune God?
The angel of the lord is identical to the triune God?