Great video. Thank you. I've watched a bunch on inverter how-to videos that deal with an inverter loop, but yours is the only one so far that explains how it works back at the breaker panel. Very nice job - easy to understand.
Thank you very much for this video. This is the only video i can find on UA-cam regarding the "inverter prep loop" in the newer campers. I have a 2024 Micro Minnie and Winnebago does not have anything to explain about it.
Great video. I am buying a 24 grand design fifth wheel toy hauler. It has a 330 watt solar panel and the inverter prep. I want an inverter... I wish it came with the extra solar panel and 2000 watt inverter. You are so right about not finding clear answers online. I dont understand solar power...😅
This is excellent info. I just bought a GD Imagine 17MKE and have the Inverter Prep placard in my passthrough storage. Hoping it is set up the same. Thanks for the content
I’m using the the same transfer switch for my inverter, it came with my Solitude as part of the Gen prep package. However with the inverter connected to the Gen side, you should know the transfer switch has a 1 amp parasitic draw to hold the contact closed. My plan is to reverse the input connections so that extra 1 amp will be on shore power instead of my Li battery.
@@EarlBalentine The way I understand it. Inverter power should now connect to the shore power side of the transfer switch and the shore power (from the breaker box) will attach to the generator side of the transfer switch. This way when on shore power there will be a delay to power up the transfer switch but the power to keep it on will come from shore power rather than battery power. When not on shore power, the inverter will then be instant power when switched on (no delay and no transfer switch power draw). @timandres6410 is this correct?
Actually no, the shore power is spring defaulted to the closed position. Gen (or inverter) power appearing at the transfer switch is fed the a set of hold-in windings. Thats why the parasitic load is only when on Gen or inverter power is applied. Switching the inputs should remedy this.
Great video I think I can do the job. I have one question does the hotwire get connected to the incoming on the switch box and the other end get connected to the outgoing?
The orange loop will need to be cut. Once cut, you can test to see what end is from the breaker box (hot) and what end will go back to the breakers. The live end will connect to generator side (in) of the switch box and the inverter power will connect to the other in connection. The out will then connect to the wires that go back to the breakers.
@@jimdel9647 It's well worth the time and cost. We love our inverter to make a pot of coffee and to use the microwave or even a movie when the batteries are charged.
@@jimdel9647 If you have a battery monitor you will need to connect the negative wire of the inverter to the shunt so that the battery monitor works correctly. If you do not have a monitor you can hook it up directly to the battery.
Great video! wondering about what to do before splicing the wires coming in from the solar panels to install a disconnect. This line is always on if I a not mistaking, right? How diid you do it? Thanks
I have the same trailer and am doing the same install as you but was going with the 50 amp transfer switch. So my question is does your AC work when you are plugged in to 30amp and 50 amp shore power or genny???
I have the same system but I would like to automate the Giandel inverter, meaning, if the ATS is providing shore power, you don't want the inverter to be on at the same time as the shore power. I understand how the relays in the ATS work to isolate the inverter from the camper when you are on shore power but when you remove shore power, After a delay, the ATS switches to the Giandel but if the Giandel is off, the Giandel does not automatically power up to provide 110v. If you don't hear the relays drop out, you are without power You then have to Manually start the Giandel. The other reasons for wanting the Giandel to be automatic is to prevent it from being powered on, even though it will be isolated - you have to remember to power it down. I want to turn on shore power & automatically power down the Giandel - Remembering the relay delays If you are running the inverter, then switch to shore, the inverter will still be on, isolated but still on. The relays will have dropped off the inverter power. When you switch back to shore power the inverter still being powered up,, will be a seamless switch - because it never was shut off. Do you know if the relays have contacts that are on when powered off, but powered off when powered on? NO/NC
Thank you for putting this info online. Can you please describe the setup you have to charge the coach batteries while on shore power. Is it a 120VAC battery charger outputting in parallel with the solar charge controller? Is the charger wired on the shore power feed side to the transfer switch? Can you recommend a charger? Thanks again for sharing.
Most all 12VDC charging systems are set up with a 120VAC to 12VDC converter / charger built into your wiring set up. The inverter can run all the 12 volt systems from shore power while also charging the 12 volt batteries. Some newer models have lithium charging options in order to hit the higher 14 volt charge needed to charge lithium to 100%. In my case, my converter / charger is not lithium compatible so my lithium batteries will only charge to about 80%. This is were the solar charge controller comes into play. The solar charger I have is lithium compatible so that will take over and charge my lithium batteries to 100%. So, both converter / charger and solar charger work together to run the 12 volt side while on (or off) shore power. With that said, the transfer switch does nothing while on shore power. Once shore power is disconnected, the transfer switch still does nothing till it received power from turning on a generator or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter that is hard wired to the switch. The transfer switch then switches to allow power to run to your breaker box lower section to power your outlets (TV, microwave, etc.)
@@riderescue Thanks for the reply. I confirmed that the converter in my RV has the auto select for lead versus lithium. From what I saw on manufactures site for converters, most come with this feature now. Your video probable saved me more that 1,000 bucks. Now that I understand GD's inverter prep setup, I know I can install the inverter, transfer switch, and smart shunt myself instead of by RV service center. Thanks!
@@BK-ku1je It's a shame that GD has a great inverter loop but chooses not to give any instruction on how to use it. It makes me happy to hear that my video helps people like you understand how to do it yourself and save. Thank you for the comments.
Here's another thought. No power transfer switch required. Install inverter as normal. Turn off controller at main breaker in trailer. Plug the 50/30 amp trailer power cord directly into the 110v out on the inverter via a power adapter to drop 50/30 down to 15amps. Turn on inverter and now you have power to everything including your roof A/C. You still need to manage your power inside the trailer to not exceed 15amps even though a 3000 watt inverter has 25amps but the individual outlets are 15 amps.
Hey Earl, that does work well, I did that on my last trailer. The only problem I had was the AC power draw drained the batteries really fast. I bring a generator if I will need to cool down with AC. Last year the inverter was great, I never started the generator once. Lucky to have cool nights on all our trips.
Great video. I have the same front compartment with the same loop in my 2023 298BH Reflection fifth wheel. I was checking the converter, and it looks like GD upgraded it to an Intellipower PD 9360 converter. It looks like the new converter has a setting to change to Lipo4 batteries; the problem is that I need help finding the converter. Does anyone know where exactly the converter is located on the fifth wheel? If you know, please let me know. Thanks.
The converter in my 226rk is under the bathroom area. I had to remove the side panel in the pass through storage area to locate my converter. Here's a video link to my Converter / Charger when mine quick working. ua-cam.com/video/g25tCVZq_Vk/v-deo.html
Great video! I have a early built 2022 reflection which unfortunatly doesnt have the inverter prep. Any idea how the power center was modified to provide the separate breakers bus bar isolated from main?
After watching your video multiple times, I am 100% sure I can do this. I have 1 question. When you are using your inverter, do you turn your converter off at the breaker or does the ATS take care of that step?
The breaker box is split for power to and from the ATS. When the inverter is on the ATS only powers the lower section of the breaker box. Typically that is just the outlets and the microwave.
Thank you for a great video. Exactly what I was looking for!! What are your thoughts on using an inverter with a built in transfer switch? I know it would be a more expensive inverter no doubt, but would it be worth the one less step in wiring it up?
Do I have to use an automatic transfer switch? Or can I just use the “on / off” switch that came with the inverter?? My Sabre fifth wheel has inverter prep also.
19:29 Hi, I’ve watched your video a few times now, and I don’t see anything about the converter/ charger. How is the disabled when the inverter is in use. Jeff
Thanks so much for such a great video. One question I have is, do you need to connect a ground wire from the transfer switch ground bus bar to the RVs chassis ground?
Glad you liked my video. My trailer is a 2022, 226RK Reflection. Here's the list and costs. Inverter - $279. Transfer Switch - $95. Lithium battery - $539. 12 volt breaker and box - $24. I had the portable 200 Watt solar panel and wires from my prior trailer but expect to pay about $450 for the panel and wires. Thanks for watching.
One connects the inverter, one connects the solar panels and one powers all 12 volt trailer stuff. Glad to hear you liked my video. Thanks for watching.
hi, i have an inverter prep too, question im on a budget cant i skip the ats and just flip the converter breaker off when i use the inverter? if the whole point is ending the cycle of recharging the batt from the energy of the batt, wouldnt that just essentially b an "mts" or manual transfer switch? thanks
The problem would be that when you cut the orange inverter prep wire the lower section of the breaker box looses shore power to the lower breakers. You will need some type of switching system to switch from shore power to inverter. With 30 amps, and 10 gauge wire, the transfer switch is the best option that I am aware of.
Great Video! Did you have to change out your converter, to a Lithium carpetable converter or are you just using the solar panel to top off the battery charge?
Outstanding video, really appreciate your in depth detail and information. I have the same exact rig and just ordered a new lithium battery, inverter and ATS. What size is the breaker you installed for the incoming solar feed to the charge controller? Safe travels! Kind regards, EJ
Glad you enjoyed my video. I have 365 watts of solar so I used a 50 amp low voltage breaker. To calculate, take watts of solar divided by volts. So my breaker need is 365 divided by 12 = 30 amps. I plan to add more panels so I bumped up to 50 amp. Also, my solar controller can handle 50 amp so the two can work up to that. Happy camping to you.
@@riderescue Thank you Brother, greatly appreciated! I’ll have all my materials here by next week and can do my install then! Enjoy all of your videos! Be safe! EJW
Bingo! Thanks for the inverter and transfer switch instructions . I was able to do this after watching a few times. Curious, did you try switching the inverter power at the transfer switch with the line coming off the breaker box? Wondering if I should do that.
Where is your power converter to charge the batteries? Mine is under the shower in the basement. You should be able to move your converter next to your batteries.
GREAT video Sir!!! You have saved me LOTS of money; God bless you 🤗🤗 It seems like you know electric stuff so, I have a question, in my Keystone 2023 I have a battery disconnect switch and, I wonder if I should connect the inverter's positive cable after the switch box so that it will also turns off the inverter system when I switching off the camper power during storage. Many thanks!
I am happy to hear that my video helped you and saved you money. I left the battery disconnect switch as is. The inverter takes large amounts of power so the wires to the battery needs to be gauged to power ratings and length of wire. The inverter I used had that in the install instructions as well as it came with the wires. I installed it as close as possible and wired it direct to the battery as instructed by the manufacture. Follow the inverters instructions closely and you should not have any problems.
@@riderescue Thanks. I just caught that our inverter prep in our 337RLS is pre-wired to add a 2,000 w inverter so now, we're back to this 2200w. I liked it best all around anyway. Do you think that inverter would power our residential microwave at 1550 input watts (it's a 1000 output microwave). It seems like it should.
@@riderescue 1550 watt microwave? thanks. It's considered a 1000 watt, but continuous is 1550 (who knows what the surge at startup is). I'm glad to hear it works for yours. Seems like their customer service is great as they've answered any questions I've had via FB's Messenger.
@@riderescue And lastly, GD manual says our inverter prep is pre-wired to "add a 2,000 watt inverter" - I'm assuming your manual probably said the same - but there was no problem with wiring size for the 2200 watt? I don't know electric. Husband said it should be fine. :)
The prior owner put on the reflective insulation. It is on with double stick tape. I don't think it does anything but I left it on because the double stick tape is a mess to get off.
Awesome video - beautifully designed system and wonderfully presented. Question, for the free standing eternal solar panel connection, do you just open the side cargo latch to hook this in or do you have some other type of connection? Some RV's have a plug for external solar mounted on the side wall near the cargo bay doors.
The external panel connection comes through at the middle of the cargo bay. It has a 10 gauge cable with connectors that is long enough to reach the bay doors from either side of the trailer. My cargo bay has a pass through hole at the floor by each cargo door that allows me to run the cord to my free standing solar panel from either side of the trailer and still be able to close and lock each door. I have a 20 foot long, 10 gauge solar extension cable, that allows me to place my solar panel at any side of the trailer in order to get the best sun exposure. Worked great at a campsite that had lots of tree shade so I could chase the sun and fully charge my battery.
Great video. I have the same Charge controller in my Reflection 315. Question, does your convertor charge lithium batteries I noticed in my manual there were several models and one was lithium only, are the others ok for Lithium as well
I'm no expert but I love a good challenge so my research found this information. My charge controller is not set up to charge lithium batteries. I was shopping for a replacement when I stumbled onto a forum that had a great discussion about the topic. Simply put, the 110 volt to 12 volt controller will only charge a lithium battery to about 80%. When on shore power and under 12 volt load the controller will handle all the power needs. When no power is needed the solar panels will then fully charge the batteries. The 110 volt controllers regulator notices the batteries are fully charged and drops down to trickle charge mode for standard batteries. That is why many controllers over charge a battery if left on for long periods of time, so pull the shore power and let the solar take over when not in use.
Awesome video. Thank you for explaining and demonstrating everything. I have more questions but need to review this again. One thing that many are opting for is an inverter/charger instead of the converter and separate inverter install. Why did you choose to go with the separate inverter and did you swap the converter for a lithium compatible charger? Oh the solar output wires, when installing them in the dc breaker there isn’t any polarity issues? I noticed the external solar cables were red and black I believe. Thanks again.
My thought process for the inverter came down to 2 things, cost and simplicity. In researching inverter/chargers, I fund many questions when it came to using the inverter loop that Grand Design installed. In order to take advantage of that loop the inverter needs to allow pass through of power and auto switching. Those inverter/chargers cost more and are difficult to wire (in my opinion). Also, why hassle with wiring and bypassing the existing charger when the factory installed one works fine? True, most factory chargers/converters do not fully charge lithium batteries but the solar panel on the roof will handle the charging to 100%. My inverter and Auto Transfer Switch was very simple to install, simple to use and cost me less than $450 for both. As for the "DC" breaker, it is a single pull, double wire for disconnecting both black and red wires. Makes for a simple solar disconnect as well as adding a second panel (in my case, portable panel). I plan to add a second panel on the roof in the future but I will tee into the wires on the roof.
This is what intrigued me by your video and install. I wanted to do the same, find a way to utilize all the installed equipment and learn how to interface with the “inverter prep”; rather than go the route you were explaining making for a more complicated and expansive install. Thank you for sharing your rationale behind the equipment choices and install how to. You have no idea how many barriers this will break down for the average DIY’er to attempt.
Two more questions. Did the ATS you selected have a jumper to remove the time delay and did you swap the incoming wires to have shore power energize the relay? Have you found the need to add an inline fuse to your set up? Thanks again.
@@scrub175 The ATS solenoid pulls power when it is in the generator mode so using that position for inverter is using up battery power just to run the ATS. By using the generator side for shore power, the solenoid draw is not an issue and the switching delay (about one minute) is only noticed when I first plug in to shore power. Some ATS solenoids hum and people have reported that they hear it in the night. Mine has a slight hum but it's not noticeable inside the trailer. As for the battery to inverter fuse? Yes, a fuse should be used if cables are running through areas that can possibly be damaged and shorted leading to fire hazards. In my case, the cables are short and protected from damage so I did not fuse this set up. I did fuse one in my last trailer because the cables ran through a firewall and that had potential for shorting.
I left a comment the other day that has apparently been deleted. I can't imagine why. This is an excellent video but there is one mistake. The solar panels should be wired in series and not in parallel as is shown here.
As you may know, the difference between parallel and series is the voltage and amp outputs. I put them in parallel to keep the volts down and the amps up. If I had put them in series the volts would be above 24 but my MPPT charge controller would control that. Also, Solar panels in parallel operate independently of one another and therefore are the best option for mixed-light conditions. If shade covers the panel on the roof my portable panel can be moved into the light and will continue to generate power as expected. Thank you for the comment. I do appreciate all comments and opportunities to learn and share knowledge.
@@riderescue Thanks for the quick reply. Obviously the goal of your video is to explain the inverter prep and you did a great job. It'll be helpful when I install an inverter in my new 280RS. The biggest thing I wanted to point out is that, as the amps increase, you need to start worrying about the gauge of the wire that is used Did you check the gauge of the wire that Grand Design installed? Hopefully it's at least 10 gauge and pure copper instead of CCA. That is large enough for the one panel that is on the roof since it's rated at a peak current of 8.82 amps. If you add a second panel on the roof connected in parallel you'll probably need to pull a separate wire for the second panel or pull a new heavier wire to handle the current from both panels. Also, if you were to end up with a system that could have four panels in it then you'll need to increase the gauge of the wire between the breaker and the charge controller.
@@biglakelover7278 10 gauge wire is capable of 24 amps continuous. 30 amp peak (but not for long term). The 10 gauge wire should be able to handle he 8.82 X 2 (17.64) continuous current. However, you could not put 3 cells in parallel.
The wiring in the inverter loop is not intended for running the AC. The AC requires a heavy power load on start up and that requires a very large inverter. Also, running the AC on battery power would require a large bank of batteries and solar power in order to charge those batteries. If a person needs to run the AC a large generator is the best thing to use.
@@riderescue 1 Furrion ac with an easystart. 14amp 1300w. 4-206ah batteries. And a 3000w inverter that peaks at 6000w. That should work? I have seen many people powering the Air Conditioner that way. I just don’t know how to properly power the AC using that WFCO panel when the inverter only power the subpanel section and the AC is not on that section.
Ok I see the red loop wire that GD provided for an inverter. If I install an inverter on the loop say a 2000watt Renogly inverter, what will that do for me? where is the benefit?
The benefit is to be able to use the outlets and microwave when off shore power. The inverter then converts the 12 volts. Need to keep an eye on the 12 volt batteries to not run them down past 50%.
@@EarlBalentine You will need an inverter that can attach both ends of the orange wire to pass the power through the inverter when on shore power or provide power to the fuss panel from the battery when the shore power is off. You will need to test the wires once it's cut to know what wire is from shore power and what wire will be from the inverter to the fuss box.
It is hard to see in the video because it is a black rapped wire bundle. I currently have it attached to the "generator" side of the transfer switch. I recently found out that the transfer switch uses a few amps when in the generator mode so that is using extra power when the inverter is on. I plan to switch the wires to connect the inverter to the power side and the power from the breaker box to the generator side. This way the power draw will be from shore power rather than battery power.
To clarify, for the auto power switch box I used, the live shore power from the fuse/ breaker panel connects to the "Power IN" (top left), the power from the inverter connects to the "Generator IN" (top right), the "Power OUT" (bottom) goes back to the fuse / breaker panel.
I was confused about that at first as well. The 50 amp is set up in the breaker box for the A/C (dual or single). The lower half of the breaker box drops down to 30 amp to run the outlets and microwave. That 30 amp wire, that loops to the front compartment is intended to be cut if someone wants to add an inverter to power the lower half of the breaker box.
No. I think you would need to use a 3500 watt inverter to do that but the inverter loop is not set up for that from Grand Design. If an inverter was sized large enough to run the AC the battery would go dead rather quickly.
Great video. Thank you. I've watched a bunch on inverter how-to videos that deal with an inverter loop, but yours is the only one so far that explains how it works back at the breaker panel. Very nice job - easy to understand.
Thank you very much for this video. This is the only video i can find on UA-cam regarding the "inverter prep loop" in the newer campers. I have a 2024 Micro Minnie and Winnebago does not have anything to explain about it.
I found the same thing when I researched the inverter prep. I'm glad I could help with this video. Thanks for watching.
Great video. I am buying a 24 grand design fifth wheel toy hauler. It has a 330 watt solar panel and the inverter prep. I want an inverter... I wish it came with the extra solar panel and 2000 watt inverter. You are so right about not finding clear answers online. I dont understand solar power...😅
This is excellent info. I just bought a GD Imagine 17MKE and have the Inverter Prep placard in my passthrough storage. Hoping it is set up the same. Thanks for the content
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for your time one of the best videos for this set up I have seen ordering everything today to set up my 315RLTS
Glad to hear my video helps you. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching!
Can you post a simple wiring diagram? I have a grand design with the inverter prep but im not quite following this video.
I’m using the the same transfer switch for my inverter, it came with my Solitude as part of the Gen prep package. However with the inverter connected to the Gen side, you should know the transfer switch has a 1 amp parasitic draw to hold the contact closed. My plan is to reverse the input connections so that extra 1 amp will be on shore power instead of my Li battery.
Excellent idea. I knew about the amp draw but didn't think about reversing those two. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching.
@@riderescue Do you mean reverse the loop wires for the inverter ?
@@EarlBalentine The way I understand it. Inverter power should now connect to the shore power side of the transfer switch and the shore power (from the breaker box) will attach to the generator side of the transfer switch. This way when on shore power there will be a delay to power up the transfer switch but the power to keep it on will come from shore power rather than battery power. When not on shore power, the inverter will then be instant power when switched on (no delay and no transfer switch power draw). @timandres6410 is this correct?
Actually if there are 2 contactors, either side will draw current to hold that side’s contactor closed.
Actually no, the shore power is spring defaulted to the closed position. Gen (or inverter) power appearing at the transfer switch is fed the a set of hold-in windings. Thats why the parasitic load is only when on Gen or inverter power is applied. Switching the inputs should remedy this.
Great video I think I can do the job. I have one question does the hotwire get connected to the incoming on the switch box and the other end get connected to the outgoing?
The orange loop will need to be cut. Once cut, you can test to see what end is from the breaker box (hot) and what end will go back to the breakers. The live end will connect to generator side (in) of the switch box and the inverter power will connect to the other in connection. The out will then connect to the wires that go back to the breakers.
Thank you very much for that info. It seems like a pretty easy thing to do so I will have an inverter powering my trailer when needed
@@jimdel9647 It's well worth the time and cost. We love our inverter to make a pot of coffee and to use the microwave or even a movie when the batteries are charged.
Can you tell me if I connect the negative side of the battery right to the negative side of the inverter thank you
@@jimdel9647 If you have a battery monitor you will need to connect the negative wire of the inverter to the shunt so that the battery monitor works correctly. If you do not have a monitor you can hook it up directly to the battery.
Great video! wondering about what to do before splicing the wires coming in from the solar panels to install a disconnect. This line is always on if I a not mistaking, right? How diid you do it? Thanks
Cover the solar panel with something that will black it out. I used a black rug.
I have the same trailer and am doing the same install as you but was going with the 50 amp transfer switch. So my question is does your AC work when you are plugged in to 30amp and 50 amp shore power or genny???
I have a single AC and it works with both 30 amp dog bone connection as well as direct 50 amp.
I have the same system but I would like to automate the Giandel inverter, meaning, if the ATS is providing shore power, you don't want the inverter to be on at the same time as the shore power. I understand how the relays in the ATS work to isolate the inverter from the camper when you are on shore power but when you remove shore power, After a delay, the ATS switches to the Giandel but if the Giandel is off, the Giandel does not automatically power up to provide 110v. If you don't hear the relays drop out, you are without power You then have to Manually start the Giandel.
The other reasons for wanting the Giandel to be automatic is to prevent it from being powered on, even though it will be isolated - you have to remember to power it down. I want to turn on shore power & automatically power down the Giandel - Remembering the relay delays
If you are running the inverter, then switch to shore, the inverter will still be on, isolated but still on. The relays will have dropped off the inverter power. When you switch back to shore power the inverter still being powered up,, will be a seamless switch - because it never was shut off.
Do you know if the relays have contacts that are on when powered off, but powered off when powered on? NO/NC
Sorry, I don't know if it has a relay or if there is a way to add one to do what you are asking.
Thank you for putting this info online. Can you please describe the setup you have to charge the coach batteries while on shore power. Is it a 120VAC battery charger outputting in parallel with the solar charge controller? Is the charger wired on the shore power feed side to the transfer switch? Can you recommend a charger? Thanks again for sharing.
Most all 12VDC charging systems are set up with a 120VAC to 12VDC converter / charger built into your wiring set up. The inverter can run all the 12 volt systems from shore power while also charging the 12 volt batteries. Some newer models have lithium charging options in order to hit the higher 14 volt charge needed to charge lithium to 100%. In my case, my converter / charger is not lithium compatible so my lithium batteries will only charge to about 80%. This is were the solar charge controller comes into play. The solar charger I have is lithium compatible so that will take over and charge my lithium batteries to 100%. So, both converter / charger and solar charger work together to run the 12 volt side while on (or off) shore power. With that said, the transfer switch does nothing while on shore power. Once shore power is disconnected, the transfer switch still does nothing till it received power from turning on a generator or a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter that is hard wired to the switch. The transfer switch then switches to allow power to run to your breaker box lower section to power your outlets (TV, microwave, etc.)
@@riderescue Thanks for the reply. I confirmed that the converter in my RV has the auto select for lead versus lithium. From what I saw on manufactures site for converters, most come with this feature now. Your video probable saved me more that 1,000 bucks. Now that I understand GD's inverter prep setup, I know I can install the inverter, transfer switch, and smart shunt myself instead of by RV service center. Thanks!
@@BK-ku1je It's a shame that GD has a great inverter loop but chooses not to give any instruction on how to use it. It makes me happy to hear that my video helps people like you understand how to do it yourself and save. Thank you for the comments.
Here's another thought. No power transfer switch required. Install inverter as normal. Turn off controller at main breaker in trailer. Plug the 50/30 amp trailer power cord directly into the 110v out on the inverter via a power adapter to drop 50/30 down to 15amps. Turn on inverter and now you have power to everything including your roof A/C. You still need to manage your power inside the trailer to not exceed 15amps even though a 3000 watt inverter has 25amps but the individual outlets are 15 amps.
Hey Earl, that does work well, I did that on my last trailer. The only problem I had was the AC power draw drained the batteries really fast. I bring a generator if I will need to cool down with AC. Last year the inverter was great, I never started the generator once. Lucky to have cool nights on all our trips.
Excellent walk thru
Great video. I have the same front compartment with the same loop in my 2023 298BH Reflection fifth wheel. I was checking the converter, and it looks like GD upgraded it to an Intellipower PD 9360 converter. It looks like the new converter has a setting to change to Lipo4 batteries; the problem is that I need help finding the converter. Does anyone know where exactly the converter is located on the fifth wheel? If you know, please let me know. Thanks.
The converter in my 226rk is under the bathroom area. I had to remove the side panel in the pass through storage area to locate my converter. Here's a video link to my Converter / Charger when mine quick working. ua-cam.com/video/g25tCVZq_Vk/v-deo.html
Great video! I have a early built 2022 reflection which unfortunatly doesnt have the inverter prep. Any idea how the power center was modified to provide the separate breakers bus bar isolated from main?
After watching your video multiple times, I am 100% sure I can do this. I have 1 question. When you are using your inverter, do you turn your converter off at the breaker or does the ATS take care of that step?
The breaker box is split for power to and from the ATS. When the inverter is on the ATS only powers the lower section of the breaker box. Typically that is just the outlets and the microwave.
Thank you for a great video. Exactly what I was looking for!! What are your thoughts on using an inverter with a built in transfer switch? I know it would be a more expensive inverter no doubt, but would it be worth the one less step in wiring it up?
Do I have to use an automatic transfer switch? Or can I just use the “on / off” switch that came with the inverter?? My Sabre fifth wheel has inverter prep also.
In order to use the inverter prep the way it is designed to split the breaker box, you will need to add a transfer switch.
19:29 Hi, I’ve watched your video a few times now, and I don’t see anything about the converter/ charger. How is the disabled when the inverter is in use. Jeff
Thanks so much for such a great video.
One question I have is, do you need to connect a ground wire from the transfer switch ground bus bar to the RVs chassis ground?
No need for chassis ground. The power and neutral wires from the breaker box and or the inverter provides the grounding wires.
Thank you
Nice job, even aesthetically pleasing!! What model of trailer and ballpark cost? Thank you in advance.
Glad you liked my video. My trailer is a 2022, 226RK Reflection. Here's the list and costs. Inverter - $279. Transfer Switch - $95. Lithium battery - $539. 12 volt breaker and box - $24. I had the portable 200 Watt solar panel and wires from my prior trailer but expect to pay about $450 for the panel and wires. Thanks for watching.
Great video! I got lost as to how you ended up with multiple red cables on the battery. where did they come from?
Thanks!
One connects the inverter, one connects the solar panels and one powers all 12 volt trailer stuff. Glad to hear you liked my video. Thanks for watching.
@@riderescue can you recommend a breaker switch and battery monitor?
@bobjohnson4290 I like the Renogy battery monitor and I suggest 12V-110V DC Miniature Circuit Breaker, 60 Amp 2 Pole Battery Breaker Protector
hi, i have an inverter prep too, question im on a budget cant i skip the ats and just flip the converter breaker off when i use the inverter? if the whole point is ending the cycle of recharging the batt from the energy of the batt, wouldnt that just essentially b an "mts" or manual transfer switch? thanks
The problem would be that when you cut the orange inverter prep wire the lower section of the breaker box looses shore power to the lower breakers. You will need some type of switching system to switch from shore power to inverter. With 30 amps, and 10 gauge wire, the transfer switch is the best option that I am aware of.
Great Video! Did you have to change out your converter, to a Lithium carpetable converter or are you just using the solar panel to top off the battery charge?
I did not change my converter. Since I have a solar panel my batteries have been charging to 100% when on shore power or while in storage.
Outstanding video, really appreciate your in depth detail and information. I have the same exact rig and just ordered a new lithium battery, inverter and ATS. What size is the breaker you installed for the incoming solar feed to the charge controller?
Safe travels!
Kind regards,
EJ
Glad you enjoyed my video. I have 365 watts of solar so I used a 50 amp low voltage breaker. To calculate, take watts of solar divided by volts. So my breaker need is 365 divided by 12 = 30 amps. I plan to add more panels so I bumped up to 50 amp. Also, my solar controller can handle 50 amp so the two can work up to that. Happy camping to you.
@@riderescue Thank you Brother, greatly appreciated! I’ll have all my materials here by next week and can do my install then! Enjoy all of your videos!
Be safe!
EJW
Bingo! Thanks for the inverter and transfer switch instructions . I was able to do this after watching a few times. Curious, did you try switching the inverter power at the transfer switch with the line coming off the breaker box? Wondering if I should do that.
I think it would be helpful to know that a transfer switch needs to be wired along with the inverter.
Where is your power converter to charge the batteries? Mine is under the shower in the basement. You should be able to move your converter next to your batteries.
Mine is under the stairs. I looked at moving it but it is not worth all the work to run more wires. It is working great just were it is.
GREAT video Sir!!! You have saved me LOTS of money; God bless you 🤗🤗 It seems like you know electric stuff so, I have a question, in my Keystone 2023 I have a battery disconnect switch and, I wonder if I should connect the inverter's positive cable after the switch box so that it will also turns off the inverter system when I switching off the camper power during storage. Many thanks!
I am happy to hear that my video helped you and saved you money. I left the battery disconnect switch as is. The inverter takes large amounts of power so the wires to the battery needs to be gauged to power ratings and length of wire. The inverter I used had that in the install instructions as well as it came with the wires. I installed it as close as possible and wired it direct to the battery as instructed by the manufacture. Follow the inverters instructions closely and you should not have any problems.
@@riderescue Got it, many thanks again!! 👍👍
Great video. How is your Giandel doing? We are looking at their 12v 3000w model - any advice? Thanks
The Giandel is great. We use it a lot and have no issues.
@@riderescue Thanks. I just caught that our inverter prep in our 337RLS is pre-wired to add a 2,000 w inverter so now, we're back to this 2200w. I liked it best all around anyway. Do you think that inverter would power our residential microwave at 1550 input watts (it's a 1000 output microwave). It seems like it should.
@@jaschembra Yes, mine runs my 1500 watt microwave, no problem. I also run a coffee maker. Just be careful to not run them both at the same time.
@@riderescue 1550 watt microwave? thanks. It's considered a 1000 watt, but continuous is 1550 (who knows what the surge at startup is). I'm glad to hear it works for yours. Seems like their customer service is great as they've answered any questions I've had via FB's Messenger.
@@riderescue And lastly, GD manual says our inverter prep is pre-wired to "add a 2,000 watt inverter" - I'm assuming your manual probably said the same - but there was no problem with wiring size for the 2200 watt? I don't know electric. Husband said it should be fine. :)
Is that reflective material for insulation or for fire proofing? is it stapled on or glued on?
The prior owner put on the reflective insulation. It is on with double stick tape. I don't think it does anything but I left it on because the double stick tape is a mess to get off.
Awesome video - beautifully designed system and wonderfully presented. Question, for the free standing eternal solar panel connection, do you just open the side cargo latch to hook this in or do you have some other type of connection? Some RV's have a plug for external solar mounted on the side wall near the cargo bay doors.
The external panel connection comes through at the middle of the cargo bay. It has a 10 gauge cable with connectors that is long enough to reach the bay doors from either side of the trailer. My cargo bay has a pass through hole at the floor by each cargo door that allows me to run the cord to my free standing solar panel from either side of the trailer and still be able to close and lock each door. I have a 20 foot long, 10 gauge solar extension cable, that allows me to place my solar panel at any side of the trailer in order to get the best sun exposure. Worked great at a campsite that had lots of tree shade so I could chase the sun and fully charge my battery.
Great video. I have the same Charge controller in my Reflection 315. Question, does your convertor charge lithium batteries I noticed in my manual there were several models and one was lithium only, are the others ok for Lithium as well
I'm no expert but I love a good challenge so my research found this information. My charge controller is not set up to charge lithium batteries. I was shopping for a replacement when I stumbled onto a forum that had a great discussion about the topic. Simply put, the 110 volt to 12 volt controller will only charge a lithium battery to about 80%. When on shore power and under 12 volt load the controller will handle all the power needs. When no power is needed the solar panels will then fully charge the batteries. The 110 volt controllers regulator notices the batteries are fully charged and drops down to trickle charge mode for standard batteries. That is why many controllers over charge a battery if left on for long periods of time, so pull the shore power and let the solar take over when not in use.
Awesome video. Thank you for explaining and demonstrating everything. I have more questions but need to review this again.
One thing that many are opting for is an inverter/charger instead of the converter and separate inverter install. Why did you choose to go with the separate inverter and did you swap the converter for a lithium compatible charger?
Oh the solar output wires, when installing them in the dc breaker there isn’t any polarity issues? I noticed the external solar cables were red and black I believe.
Thanks again.
My thought process for the inverter came down to 2 things, cost and simplicity. In researching inverter/chargers, I fund many questions when it came to using the inverter loop that Grand Design installed. In order to take advantage of that loop the inverter needs to allow pass through of power and auto switching. Those inverter/chargers cost more and are difficult to wire (in my opinion). Also, why hassle with wiring and bypassing the existing charger when the factory installed one works fine? True, most factory chargers/converters do not fully charge lithium batteries but the solar panel on the roof will handle the charging to 100%. My inverter and Auto Transfer Switch was very simple to install, simple to use and cost me less than $450 for both. As for the "DC" breaker, it is a single pull, double wire for disconnecting both black and red wires. Makes for a simple solar disconnect as well as adding a second panel (in my case, portable panel). I plan to add a second panel on the roof in the future but I will tee into the wires on the roof.
This is what intrigued me by your video and install. I wanted to do the same, find a way to utilize all the installed equipment and learn how to interface with the “inverter prep”; rather than go the route you were explaining making for a more complicated and expansive install. Thank you for sharing your rationale behind the equipment choices and install how to. You have no idea how many barriers this will break down for the average DIY’er to attempt.
Two more questions. Did the ATS you selected have a jumper to remove the time delay and did you swap the incoming wires to have shore power energize the relay?
Have you found the need to add an inline fuse to your set up?
Thanks again.
@@scrub175 The ATS solenoid pulls power when it is in the generator mode so using that position for inverter is using up battery power just to run the ATS. By using the generator side for shore power, the solenoid draw is not an issue and the switching delay (about one minute) is only noticed when I first plug in to shore power. Some ATS solenoids hum and people have reported that they hear it in the night. Mine has a slight hum but it's not noticeable inside the trailer. As for the battery to inverter fuse? Yes, a fuse should be used if cables are running through areas that can possibly be damaged and shorted leading to fire hazards. In my case, the cables are short and protected from damage so I did not fuse this set up. I did fuse one in my last trailer because the cables ran through a firewall and that had potential for shorting.
I left a comment the other day that has apparently been deleted. I can't imagine why.
This is an excellent video but there is one mistake. The solar panels should be wired in series and not in parallel as is shown here.
As you may know, the difference between parallel and series is the voltage and amp outputs. I put them in parallel to keep the volts down and the amps up. If I had put them in series the volts would be above 24 but my MPPT charge controller would control that. Also, Solar panels in parallel operate independently of one another and therefore are the best option for mixed-light conditions. If shade covers the panel on the roof my portable panel can be moved into the light and will continue to generate power as expected. Thank you for the comment. I do appreciate all comments and opportunities to learn and share knowledge.
@@riderescue Thanks for the quick reply. Obviously the goal of your video is to explain the inverter prep and you did a great job. It'll be helpful when I install an inverter in my new 280RS.
The biggest thing I wanted to point out is that, as the amps increase, you need to start worrying about the gauge of the wire that is used Did you check the gauge of the wire that Grand Design installed? Hopefully it's at least 10 gauge and pure copper instead of CCA. That is large enough for the one panel that is on the roof since it's rated at a peak current of 8.82 amps. If you add a second panel on the roof connected in parallel you'll probably need to pull a separate wire for the second panel or pull a new heavier wire to handle the current from both panels. Also, if you were to end up with a system that could have four panels in it then you'll need to increase the gauge of the wire between the breaker and the charge controller.
@@biglakelover7278 10 gauge wire is capable of 24 amps continuous. 30 amp peak (but not for long term). The 10 gauge wire should be able to handle he 8.82 X 2 (17.64) continuous current. However, you could not put 3 cells in parallel.
How is that economy brand battery holding up for you
So far, so good. I am very happy with it.
How you will power the Air Conditioner using the inverter? You will pig tail the subpanel wire and connect it to the Air Conditioner Breaker?
The wiring in the inverter loop is not intended for running the AC. The AC requires a heavy power load on start up and that requires a very large inverter. Also, running the AC on battery power would require a large bank of batteries and solar power in order to charge those batteries. If a person needs to run the AC a large generator is the best thing to use.
@@riderescue 1 Furrion ac with an easystart. 14amp 1300w. 4-206ah batteries. And a 3000w inverter that peaks at 6000w. That should work? I have seen many people powering the Air Conditioner that way. I just don’t know how to properly power the AC using that WFCO panel when the inverter only power the subpanel section and the AC is not on that section.
What year and model Reflection do you have? I am about to pick up a 2023 Reflection 320MKS, so wondering if mine would also have the “loop” in it.
Mine is a 2022, 226RK. My understanding is that all of the Grand Designs have the inverter loop. Check the breaker box for inverter breakers.
What inverter did you go with?
Ok I see the red loop wire that GD provided for an inverter. If I install an inverter on the loop say a 2000watt Renogly inverter, what will that do for me? where is the benefit?
The benefit is to be able to use the outlets and microwave when off shore power. The inverter then converts the 12 volts. Need to keep an eye on the 12 volt batteries to not run them down past 50%.
I will be wiring my loop directly to the 2000watt inverter, which cable of the loop goes where on the inverter?
@@EarlBalentine You will need an inverter that can attach both ends of the orange wire to pass the power through the inverter when on shore power or provide power to the fuss panel from the battery when the shore power is off. You will need to test the wires once it's cut to know what wire is from shore power and what wire will be from the inverter to the fuss box.
I can't see where the Inverter connects to the Power transfer switch?
It is hard to see in the video because it is a black rapped wire bundle. I currently have it attached to the "generator" side of the transfer switch. I recently found out that the transfer switch uses a few amps when in the generator mode so that is using extra power when the inverter is on. I plan to switch the wires to connect the inverter to the power side and the power from the breaker box to the generator side. This way the power draw will be from shore power rather than battery power.
Thank you
So the live wire goes "IN" shore power on the transfer switch and the dead wire goes in the "OUT" to inverter?
To clarify, for the auto power switch box I used, the live shore power from the fuse/ breaker panel connects to the "Power IN" (top left), the power from the inverter connects to the "Generator IN" (top right), the "Power OUT" (bottom) goes back to the fuse / breaker panel.
I dont get it. If you have 50amp service. But its only doing 30amp....isn't that just a 30 amp.
I was confused about that at first as well. The 50 amp is set up in the breaker box for the A/C (dual or single). The lower half of the breaker box drops down to 30 amp to run the outlets and microwave. That 30 amp wire, that loops to the front compartment is intended to be cut if someone wants to add an inverter to power the lower half of the breaker box.
Where is your master disconnect switch? Breakers can disconnect, but a master switch should be in that compartment.
What would it cost to do what you have done parts and labor?
The inverter is $350, the transfer switch was $100, the battery was $600. I estimate the labor cost of about $400
Where did you connect the dead wire?
I don't know what you are referring to as "dead wire".
can you run air conditioner?
No. I think you would need to use a 3500 watt inverter to do that but the inverter loop is not set up for that from Grand Design. If an inverter was sized large enough to run the AC the battery would go dead rather quickly.