What Does It Mean To Go Rancid Food Safe Woodworking Finishes
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- What does it mean for an oil to go Rancid? how does it affect woodworking finishes? there is a lot of misinformation about woodworking finishes and what going rancid means.
Tree nut oils: chemical characteristics, oxidation and antioxidants: research.libra...
Rancidity in Foods: amzn.to/3mqvRJV
Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry: onlinelibrary....
Food Preparation-An Important Application of Basic Chemistry and Physics: link.springer....
Scientific Opinion on Fish Oil for Human Consumption. Food Hygiene, including Rancidity: efsa.onlinelib...
Understanding rancidity of nutritional lipids: www.naturalpro...
International Olive oil counsel: www.internatio...
Fats and Fatty Oils: onlinelibrary....
Fishing for answers: is oxidation of fish oil supplements a problem?: www.ncbi.nlm.n...
KINETICS OF THE OXIDATION: www.researchga...
Antioxidants in food Oils: onlinelibrary....
California Olive oil counsel: www.cooc.com/
Stumpy Nubs Video on food safe finishes: • Is any wood finish REA...
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you know the story of the little girl who asked her mother why was she cutting the end of the roast when putting it in the pan? The mom asked the grandmother, who asked the grand grandmother. She asked her mother who said she didn't have a pan big enough for whole roast. Traditions and beliefs don't always make sense.
James, I am abandoning the woodworker in me, and putting on my highly trained sous chef toque:
If you use a film based finish (lacquer, shellac, etc) your knife edge will eventually work through the finish, you'll start to get little bits of finish breaking off, you'll eventually wear through the finish and expose raw wood underneath. And yes - that stuff will get into your food. As Stumpy Nubs has said - by the time it's full hardened, it's inert. Many folks don't know this, but shellac is used in many foods - it makes stuff shiny. Ever eat M&M's?
Next - food grade oils take a long time to go off. If you use the boards regularly (even once a week) and wash, dry and store them properly afterwards (you have to wash the ENTIRE board - not just the cutting surface) - the oil won't have a chance to go rancid. I oil mine every six months or so. I use whatever is lying around the kitchen in abundance at that moment. I oil them lightly and wash and dry them immediately after oiling.
Lastly- If you need boards to leave for months on end with no use, or in the back of your locked up, 110f degree camper van all summer - buy NSF plastic ones.
A whole, huge lot of this is about common sense. If the whole idea just freaks you out - then just don't finish them. They'll still last for years and years.
Well said.
I think the thing most people mean by "don't use olive oil, it will go rancid" is the fact, that olive oil acids hardens/oxidizes so slowly, that the fats and proteins in the oil can oxidize before the oil acids, which smells really bad. The same goes for cold pressed, untreated linseed oil. It can harden so slowly (taking weeks), that the protein/fats oxidize and smell. That's why oil for paints, oil for treating wood outside is usually processed in some kind of fashion. Degummed etc. so the "smelly bits" that oxidize and go rancid don't "spoil" the smell of the oil while its oil acids polymerize.
does raw linseed oil smell bad when cured?
@@noahjohnston No. It has no odor whatsoever. Once cured it is like "natural plastic" or soft rubberlike in consistency.
I legitimately love research articles. It can take a bit to really parse out the important parts, but they're really useful as an actual source of the best information we've got. You know, they lack all the marketing BS.
I'm glad to have found someone who is actually intelligent on the subject. Too much misinformation and idiocy by word is spread these days
I love this channel. And as a day job chef with a woodworker hobby, I agree with you here. Science. 👊
Great video! My concern about wood finishes used on items that contact food is the drying agents (often heavy metals) that manufacturers put into ready to apply finishes like BLO, Danish oil, and wipe on poly so that they dry faster between coats. I don't even worry about the solvents, however nasty, that these products contain because when they're fully cured, those solvents have all long since evaporated away.
My only concern about using vegetable oils on wood surfaces that will see contact with food is the possible transfer of off-putting flavors to my food during use. Also, the smell of rancid or polymerizing oil is not appetizing. But there's an easy, if time consuming fix to this problem - not using those items until the vegetable oil finish is FULLY CURED which can take many days. That's the one advantage of mineral oil - you can give a dry cutting board a quick once over and use it pretty much immediately without any weird odors or flavors ever being a problem.
Thank you for conversation starter with the in-depth definitions of rancid. Not mention a few new words with rancid as their root. Who knew. Looking forward to future conversation starters, like pin or tails first.
thanks I watched the stumpy nubs vid on this and it was really awesome, but you question of what is rancid added so much to this topic. awesome video, thanks!
Thanks for posting this. I saw Stumpy Nubs video and it was good. I love getting all this high quality information, and the references to back it up.
The finish is also going to depend if you are doing end grain vs side grain. I like the mineral oil on my patterned end grain board because it keeps the wood expanded, and yeah I have to reapply it, but it means the board doesn't dry out as fast as a finish that hardens and can't be reapplied. I should specify that I put a tung/mineral spirits finish on first and let that dry out completely as a base before using the mineral oil as an top coat. If you are using a side grain board you would want something that toughens the hell out of the wood, where as the end grain board is already pretty darn tough. Good video!
Thanks for this video. It will help me to counter my many green relatives who think I'm trying to off them for the inheritance. I confess I have never used mineral oil for anything beyond rubbing on a baby's bottom. For wooden food utensils, my go to is olive oil mostly because it's already in the kitchen. But, it is slow to oxidize, so I prefer BLO. Whichever oxidizing oil you use, It speeds the curing if you hang it outside or in a north window to let the sun shower it with UV.
Brilliant! I hear the word rancid thrown about a lot on woodworking videos but no one has ever explained what they meant by it. Thank you.
My cheap bamboo chopping board gets regularly covered in loads of bacon grease. Afterwards I just scrub it with washing up detergent and a scrubbing brush. Done that for years and never had an issue. It's like James said - bacteria are everywhere, just clean it.
You got me at science. I will read as I know I can never know too much.
Most people use the term rancid to mean the oil has changed flavor and smell to become something no longer suitable for food. Not all oils polymerize over time. This is very important when it comes to wood finishing. If you put a non hardening oil on a cutting board or salad bowl and it then becomes rancid, that smell and flavor will be transferred to whatever food is in contact with that wood.
For wood finishing you need an oil that does polymerize to become hard and tough.
Interesting. And of course, carbon steel skillets (deBuyer etc) are given thin coats of vegetable oil that is then heated to polymerize. That gets you a slick non stick coating to fry on. And no chef ever complains that that's not food safe.
That was an insightful, well researched, and informative mini Oil documentary. Thank you for your hard work. I really enjoyed it.
This was really good info. This along with Stumpy's video cleared up my misunderstandings about food safe finishes.
While I've used vegetable oil on wooden utensils since I was a kid and learned it from my Mom, trying to re-educate all of my clients doesn't sound appealing since "rancid" is widely accepted as a bad thing and most people know that different oils do go rancid. I make a ton of "designer" and regular cutting boards for clients and send them home with a jar of mineral oil/wax blend to reapply when needed. It just works. Also, olive oil going rancid on a wooden spoon stinks very badly and doesn't make one want to try it again or even re-use the utensil.
This has to be my favorite comment so far. I agree with the olive oil statement, and would add that I saw a news article a few years back that stated that many bottles of imported olive oil sold in stores were rancid by the time they ended up on the shelf. Yeah... I find it easier to just sell customers on non-drying oils and wax
Awesome video man, greatly explained, it sheds some more light on the video we made together where people were having concerns about the polish, this clears it up!! Awesome 👌👌👍👍
thank you - this is fascinating and very helpful!!
Fantastic, James! Thanks a lot! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
as always, keep the awesome vids and info coming James!!
Really interesting video - thanks for sharing!
Thank you for making this! Definitely a great topic to bring up and start thinking more about!
I actually saw Stumpy's video about this but he never talked about rancidity. Now that I know what it is, I'll be using poly for my mother's cutting board. Thanks James!
Be sure to wait like a month (check with manufacturer) before use.
wouldn't poly create a film that would chip and flake under a knife?
@@ryanaedmonds I definitely think that's a legitimate concern. The biggest concern with "food safe" finishes is whether I'm going to end up with the finish itself in my food, and what risks are associated with ingesting that finish.
Thank you for the great information, love your channel.
Always wondered about this and this video has prompted me to do some serious research. Thank you, James!😀
Thank you so much for this!
Love those food-safe foods!
It's the not food safe foods you need to be careful with
that's youtube for you. i see so much misinformation in the wood working channels from people with no training or background, espousing all sorts of wild theories which they learn't from someone else on youtube etc etc. my biggest pet peeve are all the videos on setting up jointer knives. they all say snipe is normal and just cut your boards a bit longer so you can cut it off. they all tell you to set your knives just a little higher than the outfeed table. i got so fed up with this that i actually did a video on the correct way to set up a jointer and use it. so good for you james in attacking the bullshit and spreading some facts in this area. to be honest, i have always used a mix of poly, linseed and turps to really soak down into the wood. once all the chemicals have gassed off i feel its pretty safe. i am retired now but still enjoy watching different channels for ideas etc.
Thanks for this! The actual definition of "rancid" is fascinating and something I totally didn't know.
I'm going to go watch Stumpy Nubs' Video right now. A book to add to your list of references is _Understanding Wood Finishing_ by Bob Flexner. In particular there's a sidebar on page 76 titled "The Food Safe Myth." Spoiler: The "myth" he's talking about is that whether or not a finish is "food safe" is something you need to worry about. _ALL_ modern wood finishes, whether oil or film finish, are food safe when cured. Obviously lead paint is excluded by "modern," and "when cured" is important -- you wouldn't want to go drinking many wood finishes in their liquid state.
By rancid i think some people mean that their cutting board will smell bad. From what I've experiment olive oil smell not great on cutting board after some time, but with the Ikea mineral oil the board is pretty much odorless.
Once it polymerizes there is no smell. That just takes a month or two.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo that is good to know, i made a quart of blo paste out of 3yr old flaxseed oil and beeswax that seems to have turned the shop into a fish market. here's hoping the summer will cook off the fish.
Time to sharpen the pitchfork! :D
Really good information. Thanks for this.
Really enjoyed it. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you James! This is a difficult topic for sure. My worry on some finishes is not rancidity, but chemical composition. What chemicals might be imparted into the food if you use that piece as a cutting board? I’ll have to read through some of your links and see if that topic is discussed.
Good video. Nice clarifications.
Pure mineral oil is my go to oil for sharpening all of my tools and knives, never had a problem with anyone getting sick because I sharpened a kitchen knife with it. So this just proves what you are saying; “do your research”.
I always figured that for the food oils that if they went "rancid" then the thing they were applied to (cutting board, bowls, utensils, etc) would start to smell bad or give the food an odd taste. However, I would think if you are using those items, washing, and renewing the oil that it would not be an issue? Also, I am most certainly in the camp of "well I heard it from" or "I read it on the internet". Time to dig through some research papers.
Love the class
Thanks James, you Rock!
thank you James
Great concepts. I had wondered why poly was "no good" on cutting boards, stumpy answered that and your video deepened it. To speculate a little... could an issue be "how long" a certain finish lasts, such as refreshing walnut oil after 5/6 years due to washout?
this dude rocks!
I forgot what type of linseed oil I had and was worried I ruined my butcherblock countertops cus I was using it as a coat before hard waxes 😅
its quite true that there is a huge argument about what is or isnt food safe. for example, some people think cucumbers are food safe
cucumbers are demonic evil! and I am most likely maybe not a cat!
Isn't it going to absorb food oils anyway by using it if it for example is a wooden spatula?
thanks, great arguments
You had to go and throw a pile of fit into the shan while my pitch fork is in for repairs…. 🤣😂
IMO the rancidity that we're talking about is the obnoxious stale odor of oxidized oils. You would hope that any finish would be odorless, and if it has an odor it would be nice if it was pleasant. If linseed oil goes rancid like an old bottle of olive oil does, and that disgusting smell persists in your furniture, then it would certainly not be a good finish to use. I don't know if cured linseed oil finishes have an odor but that's basically the question I was trying to ask when I found myself here.
Once an oil polymerizes, it never has that smell. That smell comes from bacteria that starts growing in it. And the bacteria won't grow in anything that has been polymerized.
This process of passing information without science or understanding is rampant in the exercise community as well. Bro-science is a definite problem
So true.
Brb imma do 1,000,000 reps of dumbbell bench press with 10 lb weights. I'll be toned and SHREDDED ASF bruh 😌💯💪💪💪💪
Thank you. I've heard so much different things about wood finishes that i'm so confused. Could you make other videos on that topic ?
What other parts of the topic would you like me to cover? I'm thinking about doing one on different types of woods for cutting boards
@@WoodByWrightHowTo YES PLEASE!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo You could do a test of differents wood finishes, how to apply them, how they evolve in time, the adventages/disadventages of each (Ok maybe it's a bit hardcore for test ^^ ). By the way thanks a lot for your videos, I'm learning woodworking without teacher so your videos help a lot.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo woods for cuttingboards would be great! And cover LOTS of woods! Also less common ones for cuttingboards. Like alder, birch, pine etc.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo if you're doing one about the type of wood for a cutting board, perhaps you could intertwine with the need - or not - to go all endgrain on them. I find the end grain blocks a little bit hard on the knives when mainly chopping veg and things.
Really cool
James, as with most, I've always been told about some oils going rancid over time.... my understanding or what I was told is because 'going rancid' always meant developing a bad smell or 'blackening' the wood over time.. thoughts?
That is one of the ways it can go rancid, but it only does that when it is not polymerized. Once it is polymerized there is no smell and the color does not change any more from the oil. Most all woods will get darker with time, but that is due to light rather then the oil.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo makes sense. Thanks James
My girlfriend has a huge number of bottles with all kinds of oils ment for some kind of cooking/medicinal/skin care/etc. use - wallnut, raspberry, apricot, cherry and a lot more laying around and most of them are expired, some have a rancidy smell and some are still sealed and look fine. I was wondering if I could use them as wood finish in both indoor and outdoor projects. Would they do any kind of job protecting the wood compared to leaving it untreated, specifically for the outdoor stuff and would there be a lingering smell or would one develop over time? I do not intend to use them on surfaces that would come in contact with food like cutting or charcuterie boards, more on the line of table legs and arm rests. I just don't want to toss them all out and buying wood finishing oils where I'm at is kinda expensive so in my mind it seems like a good idea to use what I have right now. Any thoughts?
They would be better then leaving it raw most of the time. The smell will disappear with time. But a lot of it has to do with the polymerization time of the oils. With most fresh oils that is a week to a month and it may get washed out before it can cure.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo thank you for the quick reply! I'll be sure to try and see how it goes.
I see you have the Feed-N-Wax product. So you are saying it is ok to by itself on a food bowl ? Thank you for your reply
Yes. I have used that one several times on bowls and spoons.
you are awsome! Thats all I can say about this video :)
Congrats on first.
Great conversation, but I think we are going to have to label you a trouble maker. 😂
I really need to make that t-shirt.
Hi i need help, my auger bit stops drilling when i'm in 1inches and sometimes not drilling
What about mold and mildew? Is there any truth to the claim that some oils, like tung oil and hemp seed oil, are naturally mold and mildew resistant, and others, like linseed oil, are not?
the studies I have seen do not support that. once they are polymerized they are all the same.
Good to know. Thanks!
I'm sure you've said it elsewhere, but what you do finish cutting boards with? Seems you want to deal with the concerns of not imparting "off" flavors to whatever is on the board, plus its a finish that knives have to cut on, so film finishes I would expect to not perform well.
I used home made BLO. Once any oil polymerizes then you don't have to worry about flavors.
Well here are the questions I would have:
1. which finishes in general get a higher bacteria load? and They I am sure aren't all the same an d some will encourage worse species than others perhaps.
2. Which ones would possibly smell worse over time and leaving in humid warm conditions?
Those are the two burning questions for me putting something on wood. I will look at the references, but if you do a follow up please address these?
I was actually trying to find any information on bacterial load on different oils but most things that I've said and haven't touched on it or just say that it's all similar. As to smell or taste once it's polymerized they're all the same. It doesn't do anything.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I did have one question spring to mind during the video that's in line with these questions/ your comment. Do all the oxidation prone oils polymerise? From my searches of (a not very reliable source) Wikipedia, olive oil for instance has only 15 % polyunsaturated content vs the 65-70+% content in lindseed oil. As such any molecule made during the oxidation process is still likely to be a low-ish length oil vs a relatively long chain polymer. Admittedly that's not to say the molecules are still volatile enough to smell but I'd imagine they will act extremely different to say lindseed oil. Something to look up I guess when I have some free time lol
Edit: typos lol
Edit 2: forgot to say, great video.
@@aledlewis5371 No, not all oxidation results in polymerization. This is a good video to bring up the topic, but that is a criticism of this video it conflates the two a bit. Oils that polymerize readily are drying oils. Polymerization requires not only oxidation and breakdown, but cross linking. Not all oils do this to the same extent. Rancidity is not polymerization but the unpleasant taste and odor from the initial oxidation, and generally before significant polymerization happens. If/when polymerization occurs there will be no unpleasant odor or taste.
@@ccbowers well that's what I thought, when he included olive oil in the list of things that you want to go rancid. I haven't really got any personal experience with olive oil and the rest going rancid, at least not in the food sense. But if the oil doesn't actually polymerise, and I'd be suprised if olive oil does by it's typical oil content, then its likely to be similar in succeptibility to leaching as the mineral oil. It may still be food safe, but would you actually want something rancid to leach into your food? Same with the chemical driers in drying oils. I doubt the oils will react to completenion and so would have thought the rate of leaching would slow but it wouldn't actually stop. It wouldn't be a problem for James's homemade BLO and I'm pretty sure he mentions it himself in other videos. I'll be honest I haven't had time to really check the literature on the commercial catalysed versions though.
Just watched the Stumps Nubs video and, whilst I'd still like to see literature on it before using it myself, it does sound like BLO likely doesn't leach in dangerous amounts do I take that part of my comment back
So what type of finish for cutting boards?
I use homemade BLO. But anything that polymerizes.
I like facts.
Time for the daily dose of ACTUAL SCIENCE! Yeah!
Great video, i could write here pages about what people think about using olive oil in cutting boards beacouse it gets rancid, it does, but you are not going to eat the board, it´s just a matter of taste & properties that will be lost butt not about if it´s food safe, as you said we are all in contact with bacterias , virus & other "shit" (take a close look to your phone) and we dont think we are going to die for it. I use it in my cutting board and we are all still alive and healthy. Don´t over think things to much, a bit of common sense is enough for doing things right,i dont think that anyone will use gasoline or diesel for a cutting board, but any vegtable oil will be ok, maybe in a pair of years it will be rancid, but for sure it wont kill anyone, keep safe.
I have butcher-block countertops and when researching oils to finish the countertop I came across all these opinions on oils to use and to avoid "Rancidificationidity" I always assumed that you wanted to avoid these oils because when they went rancid they would smell bad. Was that a bad assumption? I have to oil my countertops seemingly non-stop with mineral oil. If the slower oils go "rancid" but don't smell that'd save me a bunch of time (and money)
The smell is only there tell it polymerizes. So it all depends on what you like to smell for that month or so. For counter tops you can't just keep them in the shop for that time.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo thanks for the response! Love the channel!
So what do you recommend putting on cutting boards wood spoons or bowls something you're going to be eating off of
I use my homemade boiled Lindsay oil. But most cooking oils will work just fine you just have to wait for them to polymerize and some of them can take a month or more.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Dennis, just to clarify, he means linseed. He has not murdered someone called Lindsay in order to compress them into a food safe oil.
I think.
Thanks for the reply's guys
Amazing, thank you for being fact based
Good video! I always worried about the biological rancidity with vegetable oils because they can become a food source for a wide variety of organisms. That's why I use mineral oil myself. But I do get your point. The truth is, I am both a woodworker, and someone who has managed food service establishments, and I never use a wooden cutting board. That's mostly because my state outlaws them in commercial establishments.
So true. I think it's woodworkers would like to make everything out of wood even when a lot of times it probably should not be made out of wood lol
@@WoodByWrightHowTo mind you, I'm not saying wood is unsafe. People's behaviors are FAR more important when it comes to food safety. Kitchens use color coded cutting boards to avoid cross contamination, and keep a rack of clean ones available so that people aren't tempted to keep using them when soiled.
I have encountered sources saying wood is better then plastic because hardwoods are to varying degree antiseptic in itself?
@@johanflodkvist80 honestly, that's a load of crap. Although some woods contain chemicals that could inhibit the growth of *some* bacteria, they hardly make a difference. Besides, it's a moot point - I am prohibited by law from using wood in a commercial establishment in my state.
@@Myopicvisions I'm not debating what you should use or regulations you have to follow. Im sorry if this was not clear.
Im only looking for more knowledge. Googling topics like this only leads to contradicting answers so I'm only seeking reliable information.
and i'm here just using beeswax for everything
I make wooden spoons and bowls. I use food safe mineral oil for 2 reasons. First I use it because I like the natural finish. But that's with any oil. Second I simply don't use linseed oil on spoons and bowls because I don't know how "food safe" linseed oil is? If it is "factory" grade, it could have impurities or even toxins. Going rancid has not really been a concern. However, I use linseed oil on furniture.
I have stoped using olive oil and vegetable oil on wood because in my experience it gets sticky and smelly if not being used after a few months. (And no, I didnt leave any excess oil on the wood).
Any one else have this experience?
You can't talk facts to people with believes your silly ha ha I totally agree with you brother keep it up
erm, the OED says Rancid means "unpleasant taste or smell". These other conditions have other words that describe the: moldy, fetid, putrid, tainted, etc..
Mineral Oil is unpleasant to taste and smell right out of the gate, not only that, but mineral oil will give you epic, four horses of the apocalypse style, diarrhea. In the US "food safe" is government regulated term, and it's not what you or I would often consider actually safe in and around food. In the US, for example, mineral oil can legally contain up to 10% benzene without being labeled as containing benzene. Most of it doesn't contain that much, but most Mineral Oils aside from "Odorless" mineral oil contain some petroleum distillate contaminants. In some countries you can't even buy mineral oil except "odourless" types. So ya, food safe means different things for different people.
Some vegetable oils naturally polymerize into long chain polymers over time without adding any chemicals. Olive oil and Linseed Oil are two notable examples. Both, if left alone, will turn into a very soft plastic. In wood, both oils mechanically bond to the wood fibres over time, if not washed out by water first. Linseed oil is unpleasant to eat right out of the plant, though not bad smelling. While olive oil is, for a lot people, delicious and smells great. Over time Olive oil simply loses its smell and flavour mostly through oxidation. Unless it becomes contaminated with something else, olive oil pretty much never smells truly unpleasant, nor does it taste truly unpleasant. Eventually it just becomes "tired", lacking in flavour and smell. so much so that there are countless articles on the internet telling you how to decide if your olive oil is past it. Olive oil really doesn't go "rancid". It does polymerize all by itself, and much faster in UV, but it doesn't go rancid. Linseed oil begins "rancid" and it doesn't get any better, if anything, it tastes worse over time. But it also polymerizes, but in heat and UV. If you heat linseed oil in the presence of natural fibres like cotton, linen, wood, it can actually get very hard, it was those properties that created a product called "linoleum" which was used as floor covering for centuries.
Some vegetable oils contain natural anti-fungal and anti-microbial agents, like olive oil for example. Some do not. You have to realize that regardless of what anti-agent you use, its efficacy decays fairly quickly, from a few days for some, to a few months at most. After that the anti-action is gone. Wood itself contains natural oils and chemicals that prevent mold, and reduce bacterial activity. But that action too decays over time. This is why wood cutting boards are generally safer than plastic alternatives, as you use a cutting board, you cut the fibres anew and release small amounts of anti-fungals and anti-microbial. Maybe not enough to be meaningful, but plastic has no such property at all.
Enter vegetable oils for cutting boards and other wooden food contact items. You use the wooden food contact item, then you wash it, then you wipe it lightly with vegetable oil. Now it is clean and protected until the next time you use it, provided you use it within the active window. After that window, you should just wash it and renew the vegetable oil. This is why vegetable oil should be your go to finish for food surfaces, not industrial polymer resins.
A modern polymer resin is really creating a plastic film finish on top of your wood. Cutting into that plastic creates pockets that are mechanically difficult to clean, this is why plastic cutting boards are required to wash in detergent, high temperature water, and a sterilizing agent.
I agree, there is just so much misinformation out there, much it due to the loss of precision in our use of language. A normal cycle of most languages as they change over time and as cultures rise and fall.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but there is still a lot of complication and uncertainty. The aspect of taste relevant to furniture is smell: we don't want it to stink.
Oxidation does a lot more than polymerization. Saturated fats are resistant, while unsaturated ones form hydroperoxides on exposure to air and light. These can decompose to form smelly stuff that make us call the oil rancid. As mentioned in the article on fish oil you cite, toxicity of rancid fish oil is unknown. Similar substances are likely in the boiled linseed oil you make without driers: I would not assume these are as benign as you do. Even trans fats (less modified) are now known to be a little bad for you.
The role of oxygen in polymerization is not simple. It will inhibit polymerization while reacting to form hydroperoxides that can initiate polymerization on heating.
Polyunsaturated fats form hydroperoxides fastest, and can be converted by heat and catalysts to conjugated forms that polymerize much more readily.
It's true as stumpy says that on cure a finish becomes plastic, and previous composition is changed. It's likely to be a lot less toxic, but it's likely not known how toxic various plastics are to eat. They differ a lot more from one another than balsa does from lignum vitae.
Good luck explaining why olive oil is safe at the flea market. I just tell them I use mineral oil. lol
Yeah. I feel you there. And then on top of it they call you up about a month later asking why the finish looks bad after coming out of the dishwasher lol
@@WoodByWrightHowTo lol. Yep
Actually going from the scientific point of view "drying" and going rancid are two different processes... You cannot say blo goes rancid because it polymerises, but the part that cannot polymerise (for example unsaturated acides) goes rancid though.
I think rancidity is believed to be poisonous because when some food has a rancid taste, it's often turned poisonous because of other ingredient like eggs.
82nd.
...Aaand then you go on vacation? 🤣😂🤣
Lol yup. Get people arguing and then run away.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo This is why some of us are not invited to certain parties anymore.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo :-D ALOHA!!
"Is mineral oil organic or inorganic?
Mineral oil is organic. However, it is classified as "mineral oil" instead of as "organic oil" because its organic origin is remote (and was unknown at the time of its discovery), and because it is obtained in the vicinity of rocks, underground traps, and sands." Wiki
So mineral oil can't go rancid, because it went rancid before it became "mineral".
Mineral oil is a byproduct of the petroleum industry. It is removed from crude oil. It does not go rancid through oxidation because it does not polymerize it never has polymerized and never will and therefore it does not go rancid through oxidation like other oils do. However it can go rancid from bacteria just like any other oil.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Isn't crude oil just a rancid dinosaur? ;-)
Back in the day they didn't have the internet so the word of moth was all they had but we have the internet so the word of mouth is obsolete because of bad uneducation so use the internet isn't that one of the reasons we pay alot of money every month to h ave it oh well this was cool
You ignored then main problem with olive oil going rancid, it smells bad! That is not good.
Once a polymerizes it does not smell bad.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I love your content. I know olive oil polymerizes under heat, but am unaware that it would polymerize at room temperature.
It'll polymerize at room temperature. It just takes a little longer than lindseed oil. Usually it's three or four weeks at room temperature. You can speed up the polymerization through heating Keating the oil or "boiling" it. But there's a reason that most woodworkers use linseed oil instead.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Thanks for the thoughtful reply!