Robert Eisenman & the Dead Sea Scrolls: Best Interview Ever!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- This wonderful interview with Robert Eisenman, famous Dead Sea Scrolls scholar whose views are out of the mainstream, captures the man, his life, and his ideas. He is relaxed, reminisces, and lays out his basic theory about Christian Origins, Paul, James, and Jesus. Check out his web site here:
www.roberteisenman.com
Also my course on the Dead Sea Scrolls where we consider this and other alternative views and interpretations of the Scrolls vis-a-vis Jesus, James, Paul and earliest "Christianity."
On-line Courses:
"Jesus & Dead Sea Scrolls”
mvp-courses.co...
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This is kicking my butt...Thanks Doctor Tabor.
Prof Tabor, I see and appreciate why you believe this is your best interview. Bravo. This content has challenged and changed my beliefs for the better.
Great to hear Robert Eisenman speak again
Dr. Tabor - Early in my "awakening" to the honesty of Christian/Judaism history (as opposed to theology) I found your work and Robert Eisenman's. In those early days his one-liner "to know Jesus study James" was a great inspiration. I have now read his book , Vol. 1, and own Vol. 2. I have watched his videos and learned a lot. In several of his videos, he seems to be very frustrated and almost angry with some things; particularly how hard it was to get the scrolls released. In this video, I could see his compassion blended with the zeal for the subject. I guess he could be labeled a Zealot for Righteousness???
Theology vs history. Well put. Maybe he’s passionate for historical record vs literature?
Hey, just to add my 2 cents worth, I trust THEOLOGY rather than RELIGION - that is if you truly grasp the proper definition of each of those words . . .
Constantine, had the position, power & authority to do just exactly what he was insinuating here & Constantine converted, then regressed & converted again, practically on his deathbed . . . I mean, Eisenman here, readily admitted to not knowing scripture, for comparison, he only knew what he had translated & in great detail, Rome was no weak or blind government, you batten, you bargain, you compromise, you negotiate . . . all of this is very plausible.
Robert Eisenman speaks coherently without a script for an hour...amazing. Frankly, Mr Eisenman is one of the foremost thinkers of our time.
WOW!!! Profound and Fantastic perpective. I learned so much from watching this interview and have about 2 pages of notes to take me further in my journey.
...eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear...
EVENTALLY, EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY TONGUE CONFESS that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD AND KING OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.
...and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:5
Thanks Dr Tabor! Amazing talk. Oddly, his take on being righteous is the first thing that resonates as true...despite hearing the rantings of a multitude of preachers and rabbis online.
Every man has a list of influential writers and thinkers that have influenced their thinking and scholarly explorations. Dr. Robert Eisenman is definately on my top ten list. Really got the wheels turning .
He seems to believe the 4 Gospels are leaning closer to literature not historically sound. And he has a problem with Paul. I have a problem with that. I trust the LORD Yashuah. (Jesus) And His Word stands forever.
An excellent hour interview. Do not miss this hour!
Awesome information. Thank you!
It's always nice to be taken back to my own eureka moment which led me out of christianity. For me, the mindblowing realisation about James and Paul was what prompted me to question everything I'd been told within the religion.
James was not called the ‘Teacher of Righteousness.’ He was called ‘James the Just’ (not the same) and he called himself “a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ” (James 1:1). Maybe the Teacher of Righteousness character in the scrolls is prophetic of Jesus, or is an expression for a longing to be righteous and is an example of a type of messianic expectation of that group at that time.
Jesus the man, by Barbara Theiring, says he is Jesus.
A. MAZ. ING. Thank you so much for this Dr. Tabor.
I’m not sure how Saul of Tarsus was both a Herodian and a Pharisee of Pharisees.
Think of it this way: under Roman rule, they couldn't very well allow the Jews to have a KING, now could they, especially when they used the title Caesar . . . there were multiple Herod this, Herod that, Herod the Great - the Herod that slaughtered 2year old males when Joseph took Mary & the babe to Egypt, then returned from Egypt after that Herod had died . . . each of these Herod had a nasty habit of killing off their own siblings & children for their own personal gain . . . if you were someone in line here, you'd either keep them well funded, or go off to Greece to be educated to become a scholarly Pharisee & hope they have forgotten about you.
He was a herodian who claimed to be a Pharisee. Just like Xtians claim to be scholars of scholars
Long time ago I edited some of Robert's classes at Long Beach. I have a good deal of respect for him and thoroughly enjoyed his teaching style. However, at the same time I've always been troubled by his critics. The critiques of Robert Eisenman's theories for their reliance on late sources, unconventional interpretations of Qumran texts, and departure from mainstream scholarly consensus on the historical context of early Christianity and the Qumran community. The skepticism is rooted in the perceived lack of support from explicit evidence and the challenge posed by the unconventional nature of Eisenman's claims. I have always hoped someone would come along and defend his views. Was he perfect, none of us are, but he is exceptional.
Interesting interview.
To call it Palestinian messianism is not an accurate way to refer to that place at the time the scrolls were hid. Judean messianism is more precise because they were hid due to the Romans who crushed the Judean revolt for independence. They then renamed it Syria Palaestina as an insult to the Jewish population because they knew the Philistines were Israel's historical enemy.
Once a person becomes aware of the historical geographical naming conventions it becomes political today. Or in other words, a headache.
Perhaps Dr. Robert Eisenman could talk to Dr Peter J. Williams who is the Principal and CEO of Tyndale House, Cambridge to be better informed. There were a few other holes in his narratives, but I've already used up to much space.
Thank you, I just said the same thing and there are only 2 or 3 comments so far that pick him up on fundamental inaccuracies that a seasoned scholar should/would not make, which leads me to believe he likes to push a certain narrative.
Everybody is aware of the implication you describe, but it is just easier to say Palestine to describe the general area than say Judea, Israel, and Samaria in a general discussion.
Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin he was not Herodian. If you can look past the trees you'll see the forrest
WOW! WOW! WOW! Have I got a bone to pick with my born-again friends.
WOW ! ! ! This is SO NOT what I expected . . . incredible . . .
I am believer, a Christ Follower, I am learning my Bible & the New Testament & have drawn a great deal of comfort from the discovery & translation from the dead sea scrolls . . .
I do know who the brothers, James & John, are, the Sons of Zebedee, the Sons of Thunder . . . I know that Jesus had 4 half-brothers by Mary & Joseph, 2 of who were named James & Jude, this James becoming a Church leader.
Hearing this from a non-Christian source, obviously extremely well versed in his field, indisputable & reputable . . . is indeed eye-opening, to say the least. I'm relieved that he likes Luke & his gospel & epistle, but Saul/Paul . . . wow, 13 books of the New Testament, that is mind-boggling - but it fits the narrative, Rome was in control, Rome was confident in their arrogance & Constantine had the influence, position & power to pull this off, just slight twists of scripture & you're reading by reflecting it in a mirror . . . he didn't convert to Christianity, until he had the gospel he could convert t -basically, if you can believe that!!!
Thank you for this . . . every minute was absolutely worth listening to.
I like how straight forward and honest he is with his point of views. I like when he said: "I might be wrong.."
He's honest about his thoughts. He has his own lenses he sees through the history.
This man says that Jesus was not attested to in anything besides gospels of different types however this is untrue. Markedly untrue. There is attestation in Josephus flavius. In the Jewish talmud he is written of although not in good light he was also written by the Roman historian Cornelius tacitus and the Roman historian Gaius Suetonius, and the philosopher Mara Serapion. The council put together of academicians who were mostly atheist or agnostic said the historicity of the life and death of Jesus were the best attested event of ancient history
But Paul himself said he was a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin? And wasn't he a star student of the rabbi Gemaliel? We need these kind of questions answered as from Dr Eisenman's comments it sounds as if he was from the family of Herod living in Turkey and therefore Roman, and not a true Jew at all. Although Paul admits being a Roman citizen this is not explained in bible writings. Dr Tabor - can you clear this up please?
@jpatpat9360 You are absolutely correct with your Scriptural facts here. I too am confused where he got these ideas, but I’ll always stick with the Words of the Bible.
"A star Student of Gamaliel😂" 1. He never says it himself. 2. Why is He not mentioned in the Talmud but other Students of Gamaliel were mentioned? 3. No Pharisee would call the law weak and useless like Paul did
@@JopJio do you honestly think the authors of the Talmud would admit to Paul/Shaul, one of the proponents of Christianity, would admit that he had been a star student of Pharisaic Judaism and in fact a persecutor of Christians before, and then turned away to accept Christ? That would be like admitting that Yeshua was the Messiah. See Acts 22:3......witnesses reported that he was
Paul has been certainly the most misunderstood, misinterpreted writer of the Bible. Not in vain Peter spoke about this when he said in 2 Peter 3:16: "He speaks about these things in all his letters. There are some things hard to understand in them. The untaught and unstable will twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures."
Eisenman makes some strange assumptions and comes to conclusions that completely ignore the material he is discussing. The Roman origins of Christianity were prophesied by Isaiah when he spoke of salvation for the Gentiles (11:10 and other places). Jesus was the Messiah of the Gentiles (also the gentle messiah). Also, dismissing the historicity of the Gospels and choosing the Dead Sea Scrolls is odd without evidence to doubt the Gospel accounts. His confusion about people called James and assertion that one or all of them were invented characters is pure bias and intentional misunderstanding. Why put so much emphasis on the Pre-Christ writings of one group of Apocalyptic Jews? So much so, that you conclude that Jesus was not the Messiah because he didn't fit the idea of these people. All in all, a very strange approach to history and scripture.
my man is going to sit there with a straight face and say in regard to the gospel accounts recorded in the Bible "who has ever questioned these things?" just an absolutely preposterous statement. stunning in its ignorance. only a really intelligent person could say something so absurdly stupid.
Please excuse the blasphemy, but oh my god, this is gonna take a few listens.. its very interesting.. thank you
Great video!
there ARE originals in Hebrew and Aramaic. Signs point to them not being merely translations from Greek 🤯 Nehemia Gordon did a study on Shem Tov's Matthew and showed many reasons to conclude that it is a Hebrew original
Absolutely fantastic. Facts, links and awesome inspiration. His fitrah speaks. I see the parallels he speaks of.
Vibes are off. So is the research, probably
Even our most righteous acts are filthy rags before God. Jesus is Saviour!
Never once does Jesus (God) refer to Israel as Palestine.
Correct... the name "Palestine" didn't even exist until around year 135 (or so), when a Roman Legion that occupied the region around the Jordan rift valley began calling it "Syria Palastina" Regardless, this is still an incredible interview!
23:17 does he count Josephus and Tacitus's accounts of Jesus as "spin-offs" off the gospels?
Robert EIsenman does not understand Paul's teaching. Paul does endorse fully the Torah but refutes the "oral torah" , the traditions of the elders. While still maintaining that Salvation is by faith in the Work of Yeshua alone. the observance of the "Law" is the only proper response to loving Father who sent His only begotten Son to die in our place.
I bought all Eisenman's books, ever since reading THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS DECEPTION by 2 of the 3 co-authors of HOLY BLOOD HOLY GRAIL (Baigent & Leigh), which featured his 'take' on the DSS -- namely, that Paul was the "Liar" castigated in various scrolls, the enemy of the Teacher of Righteousness.
Eisenman wrote a blurb for CAESAR'S MESSIAH, which reads: "Challenging and provocative. If what Joseph Atwill is saying is only partially true, we are looking into the abyss."
It is due, in part, to Eisenman's blurb that I feel a general disdain for 'experts' like Richard Carrier and Bart Ehrman, both of whom dismiss Atwill as a crank. Much of what Atwill proposes in CM follows closely enough the paradigm that Eisenman lays out in this interview -- i.e. that the DSS were written by a group of Messianic Zealots who fought against Rome and, alas, lost. Despite their fervent beliefs and pride in their own culture. The Roman Empire would have collapsed had the Romans not thrown everything they could at Judaea to quench the Rebellion that threatened to overthrow Roman hegemony throughout all its subjugated provinces. The Romans HAD to defeat the Jewish rebels, or it would've been the 1st domino . . . leading to the next . . . and the next . . . and the next -- all those conquered provinces which would've preferred NOT to pay taxes to the power-mad Romans would've rebelled in turn, had they not seen the utter devastation that Rome visited upon Judaea and its people.
Eisenman's work did a great job of almost -- ALMOST!!! -- getting to the ultimate Truth regarding the creation of the Christian religion. Atwill, benefiting from Eisenman's earlier work, was able to intuit that one extra insight: that Jesus in the gospels and Titus in Josephus' WAR OF THE JEWS, when compared, have too many elements in common, too many typological parallels to be explained away by naysayers like Ehrman and Carrier. Insofar as Eisenman's scholarly works helped set the stage for Atwill's astonishing book, I'll always be grateful for him.
so say we all
When does it begin?
Philippians 3 :5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Excellent.
Interesting. An intelligent man, but as far as understanding the biblical form of 'righteousness' explained in the Pauline epistles of the New Testament, I do not think he understands the 'righteousness' that comes from God (alone) which is imputed to man once he believes in the saviour because no mere man of course can never be righteous by his own merits. That is the crux of the gospel. ? In Romans 3 Paul lays forth the argument that no person is righteous - even if they observe the law of Moses - if they put themselves under it - because the Law only condemns or exposes a man as a sinner (and no matter what rules we make from our conscience or religion - we fail to live up to them also. Nobody can be' justified' by keeping commandments from Moses or any religion or our conscience. As Christ showed - our sin comes from within our heart - even before we act - we think sinfully. We sin because we are sinners. ('True righteousness' only comes by means of the atonement of Christ's blood).
I will add Romans 3:19-25. King James Version. (But the whole chapter explains it more clearly). Romans 3:19-25.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
So - to explain: - Verse 20 says: '...by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight...' In other words by keeping laws or rule keeping (specifically the Laws of Moses - ie. 10 Commandments, etc) no flesh (nobody) can be justified in God's sight. Why? Because we are guilty of violating them. The sermon on the mount clarifies that.
Verse 21 says: '...now the 'righteousness of God' 'without the law...' Meaning a different type of righteousness (not self-righteousness) A righteousness that is totally separate to law keeping, and coming from God himself! So what is it?
Verse 22 says: 'Even the 'righteousness of God' which is 'by faith of Jesus Christ' unto all and upon all them that believe...'
It clearly says only those who have believed in Christ receive God's righteousness. Robert Eisenman does not believe the gospel. Without that transfer - where Jesus took our sins and paid our debt, and gave us his righteousness in it's place (which you can only receive by faith).- we are still lost in our sin and under God's wrath. Righteousness is a free gift. Only faith in Christ's work on the cross is able to justify us sinners. Jesus said: 'It is finished'. Paid in full. But only believing is receiving.
Ephesians 2:8-9. King James Version.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Um they had the ashes of the 9 previous red hefers proving they were high priests, also this was john the baptist crew where prophacy stayed alive and well. They were the sons of light, sons of zadok and Yahusha accepted them and that is good enough to me.
I am listening intently and I just must say that plenty of people have questioned so many things. So I am taking what I can from you but I think also there is a lot to leave to the side of what you're saying though I appreciate this video. It is worth mentioning that you are not correct on Several points i'm going to keep listening i'm sure I'll comment again, also we have great evidence for jesus and know he existed at this point ;)
We also have LOTS of evidence historically to prove the bible isn't just literary. If you choose to seek unbiastly. ;)
People with abundant historical knowledge question theese things heavily, and though your view is yours many many people have come with great evidence to prove validity and contradict you sir, we are able to seek and search it is no longer witch hunt days
I can respect evidence from a different view point, however knowing we DO have historical evidence from non christians and even athiests that oppose your teaching make it difficult to listen and believe you fully. If YOU don't know these things, your opinion is no longer factal, i Do appreciate a deeper understanding and thank you for this info, but i must comment for other viewers who may be misleads by some of your non facul statements. Plainly untrue. If you read this wish you well, GOD Bless.
We can certainly consider dead sea scrolls however, it is comparable to finding you or my diary, dry isn't mean truth, just is a collection of random writings. Yes romans could put a spin ad you say but ethiopian and jewish and other found documents align, do we have other findings to align with these,, that is what to seek. I do enjoy knowing, reading them, but aRe they reliable? Some, yes, others not yet
Lastly i hane experienced GOD, and when if you ever do you will know and see with a lifted viel ❤.. not arguing just wishing posting that you do, it's amazing
His body language when he beleives hes bs-ing 😅is unmissable nor is it deniable 😃
#Palestine is a
myth. . .
😶
Definitely a non believer speaking!
He may be a good scholar but this is what happens when you get a non-Christian trying to understand the New Testament, spiritually detached work. If you're a Christian never let a non-Christian "educate" you. Listen, parse, learn, but don't his word as gospel.
Seriously...what??? Paul took a Nazarite vow. Acts 18:18
People are so skewed about Paul on all sides it's depressing....but unfortunately for your narrative of Paul hating the temple (wtf?) He himself had taken a Nazarite vow in Acts 18:18. He had his own plans to go to the temple. About half way through on this and doesn't even seem worthwhile to continue. Amazing...both Jews and Christians lie about Paul.
Why? He was forced to, becsuse He wanted to save his life. 😂 "to the Jews I became as a jew...". Paul is the biggest fraud in history of mankind.
Lol. Muslim bias. So basically the dead sea scrolls confirmed Jesus was on the earth yet he wont talk about Jesus.
This speech (not interview) only proves intelligence isn't wisdom.
Acts 4:11 KJV 11 This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’a
Great, great, interview. The best part was his acknowledgement that many Christians and even Christian scholars cannot place themselves into a 1st Century Judea mind set, but can imagine only a Greco-Roman Christianity mindset from centuries later.
One can't really understand the Bible unless they understand Hebrew and the Jewish customs from the times. There are a lot of misconceptions interpreted by modern mainstream Christian teachings that aren't what was meant when the alleged Christ was teaching, nor the apostles and / or people who wrote the texts used to compile the " Bible". One is the misconception of turning the other cheek and loving ones enemy. The other is that Jesus changed Judaism or the law. The closest practice of the type of spirituality and worship resembling those days would be messianic Judaism. Not protestent Christianity . The person Jesus, aka, Yeshua, did not come to change the law, but to fulfill it, as prophesied in Isaiah. Some of the dead sea scrolls were written in Aramauc , Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Mohammad of Islam wasn't born until 570 CE. I thought he had said something about Islam, which would be irrelevant except for the fact that Mohammad wouldve been a descendent of the descendents of those living at the time the dead sea scrolls were written. A lot of people lived in caves back then. Archaeologists have uncovered the communities the people who wrote the dead sea scrolls lived in. They weren't cave dwellers, as such.. though they were organized into different levels, on par with the first type of monks . They did not invite beggers, blind and deaf people into the community.
. So not exactly the same people of the " give them the coat off your back " christians. There were many sects of Jews at the time. . The scrolls were stashed in a hurry, most probably because the Romans were on their tails. The theory is that they were mostly massacred , with some possible escapees . .None of the writings used in the New Testament Bible were found among the dead sea scrolls . The Dead Sea scrolls only confirm them to be the earliest written texts found in the Jewish texts that were also included in the Christian old testament.. they confirm their earlier existence for the Jews, and confirm their authenticity as to translation, Isaiah being the most complete , intact and earliest original text of the Tanakh. There is no evidence that they were Christians. The term " righteous" was not created by Christians, nor was it a new concept to religion or reference to an individual dedicated to their spirituality in purity .
@@penelopejuno9904 I enjoyed reading your reply. I missed the reference to Mohammed, but I'm sure you know that Judaism was a major source for his creation of Islam.
Well he in no way has an Essese mind set.
@@penelopejuno9904my question is... Who wrote Peter and John then...I believe that Jesus fulfilled the old test... So then who was James from Acts and why did the Jerusalem Jews act a certain way etc... The dead sea ers... Were they not the same brand of believer....hmmm 🤔
@@acesing0987, Jesus wasn't mentioned in the dead sea scrolls. They were written by a Jewish sect. Christianity was only just begun by the time the Dead sea scrolls were left in the cave. They contain fragments of the old testament or Jewish Bible, and then some , except that Isiah wa complete, not fragmented. None of the new testament scriptts were part of the dead sea scrolls. As far as who James, John and Paul were , there is a lot of information you can refer to through a search. Their writings, however, came after the dead sea scrolls were written and abandoned in the cave. The historical context of the dead sea scrolls is that they confirm that the writings the Jews used as part of their religion.. .. the dead sea scrolls were dated to be earlier than other known copies of the Jewish " Bible". The Jewish Bible does not mention Jesus. But the people who converted to Christianity or who were said to have followed Jesus were mostly people of Jewish and Roman religions and cultures, as was Jesus, himself, in fact preaching at the Temple. . What I'm saying is the writings compiled into new testament, need to be read in the context of the beliefs , customs and history of the Jews at the time , not our modern day society who don't understand the Jewish customs and practices at that time in history , or any other custom that wouldn't be understood in our modern day. In summary, the dead sea scrolls preceded Christianity . They were written by a Jewish sect and are historically significant because they prove prerexistence of old testament writings or Jewish " bible" to an earlier date of other known early copies, especially the one of Isaiah, because of its completeness . They have nothing to do with the new testament writings.
The church was NOT built on Peter sm stone it was built on Yahushua The Rock, the foundation corner stone.
Spoken like a true academic. 1 Corinthians.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
James 2:19 KJV: Thou believest that there is one God [Abba Father]; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James Tabor and Robert Eisenman - two of my favourite authors on the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Allow me to propose 'Revelation Ch.25' by EdwardKMicheal as an authentic witness to our Christ Yeshua. kdag
PlymouthUK
2024Feb8th
Hahaha he got caught admitting lots and lots of documents for Jesus... while trying to deny Jesus...lol
Paul did not despise the law, he taught that following the law which none of them were able to do did not justify a person to God. He taught that the law and man's inability to follow it left man in a hopeless state which resulted form the fall in Genesis 3. Man's realization of this would produce understanding of the need for a messiah not just to elevate the nation of Israel to the head of nations, but to restore all of mankind to a relationship with God because of the cross and eventually the restoration of the nation of Israel as promised to Abraham. That is the Gospel that Paul points out in his letters and the contextual understand that anyone studying the Scriptures must have in order to understand their true meaning and the historical events surrounding the intertestamental period and the past 2 thousand years of world history. Without this contextual understanding, only a rudimentary understand of the scriptures, the DSS and the world history surround them can be achieved.
Beautiful.
Yes
Ahmein and Ahmein
The point being made by Eisenman is that Paul was not for the law, while the ground zero Jewish messianic Christian movement led by James the Just/brother of Christ were all zealots for the law. This implies that the original Jesus movement was not of a Pauline theology or religious ethic. Paul is not even remotely close to this, evidenced by his anger about law observances in Galatians. I think you are misunderstanding the point being made by this scholar (and many others for that matter). Eisenman and others wouldn't deny that some letters attributed to Paul have an apologetic angle towards the Law as a theological point about his gospel.
Paul said he WAS zealous for the law. Paul seems to believe sincerely and he even suffers for his beliefs.
Yeah your out of your mind if you believe the little Roman Spy Paul had any sincerity or integrity.
Many researchers historians and authors have pointed out Paul’s connection to the Romans and his mission.
Cloud without water, always learning but never coming to the Truth that is Jesus. Void of the Spirit, full of traditions of men.
Matthew 21:42 “Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?”
What can I say? Academics. They, too, have their biases. And one of those is to reduce the miraculous to myth status, or presume it was simply invented into the narrative. I traveled in India in the early 1970's and witnessed many of the miracles of Jesus being performed by Sages and Saints there. Seeing that . . . was actually what brought me to Christianity. Because it made Jesus' miracles credible.
At the same time, while not confirming the Divinity of Jesus, it shows a "god man" form of status; a second Adam, come to clean up the mess kicked off in the Garden. One particular Saint in India, I could feel his presence like a compass; literally use his presence as a direction-finder to know where he was presently. And no one was claiming this guy was God; but rather a "god man". This is what's left out of Tabor's work and Eisenman. This other dimension; that they don't account for.
I thought it was just me. Heresy.
love your enemies is something totally radical, to the Romans also. Jesus was introducing the laws of the kingdom. Read Isaiah where swords are beat into plowshares and lions lie with lambs.
The Scrolls are not Hellenized and contrary to the Gospels. They contain the OT just the same. I’ve heard many scholars disagree with this. The whole area of Israel was heavily influenced by the Hellenized world, which had been controlling it for over 40:24 200 years. The canon is almost universally accepted ever since the first century. This guy has strong opinions contrary to large numbers of people, including scholars…
The powerful and useful impact of the teaching of both of you Professors cannot be understated. Your deep research and sincere draw toward “righteousness” imbues reason and credibility. We are all indebted to your enlightened work. But to me, forgive me, your blind spot is your failures to see the supernatural. You are both willing, to some extent to accept the so-called 7 accepted writings of Paul, and yet when Paul proclaims to his eye witness followers that they came to believe because of working of the Spirit, you are both incapable of recognizing that spiritual agency at work in Paul’s ministry. Nor do you appreciate that your main guy James the Just was familiar with Paul’s work and extended the right hand of fellowship and protection to Paul in the very work you cite as authentic and reliable - Acts 15 and Acts 21. Can we accept that perhaps James knew Paul better than we do?
An unbeliever putting doubt into minds. Sad.
@jlcraw79 I agree 1000% with you. I decided not to finish this interview.
@@Keturah53 I want to thank you listening to the end and getting back to me. I am grateful that you’ll be praying for him
@@Keturah53 That’s heartbreaking. Scripture defines, “righteousness” as obeying what out wonderful Creator/ (Yahweh in Biblical Hebrew) says to do or not do. Your description of, “ little gods” is perfect and absolutely accurate. Blessings to you.
I love listening to Robert Eisenman. He and James Tabor have done the serious legwork. This is easily the most illuminating lecture I have seen relating to the Dead Sea Scrolls. Dr. Robert brings it all to life with the flair of a great story teller.. The section on Paul was amazing. Great stuff. Thanks.
Aspire to be righteous!!
our righteousness is as filthy rags
@@thejamnasium6447Thx for telling us we're worms...I mean menstrual diapers
Yep, this guy seems pretty good.. if you don't have an hr, try from about 46 mins on and then you may want to hear the rest. Great interview. Thank you James for posting it.
A big thank you, Mr. Tabor, for your great job. Just amazing how a Jewish sect with a Jewish messiah could have get such an influence in people of European stock to the point that faith in Jesus and his thoughts is the base of European civilization, at least until the French Revolution.
Except it really isn't. The ebonites who were far more judaic in thought were wiped out. The hellenistic world took over the idea of a redemptive God who really looks less judaic by the time you get to byzantium
I had a 'gut feeling' from the get-go that this scholar is suspect but thought persevere and see what he has to say: when he announced there was no 'Jesus' and flippantly derided the name 'Yeshua' where the Greeks got the name to translate in the first place, and compounded it by setting Jesus in Palestine in the 1st century, it confirmed his inaccuracies. The name 'Syria-Palaestina' was created by Emperor Hadrian after the 2nd Jewish revolt, Bar Kokhba in the 2nd century (no scholar should make that mistake)132-135 AD - the 'Palaestina' element referring to the Philistines an Aegean sea-people who invaded and settled in Gaza, the Jews' long time enemy and who eventually died out as a people leaving very little admixture in the area's dna. Furthermore, there is extensive non-Christian historical records of Christ's ministry, arrest and crucifixion; and does he seriously think the apostles would have offered up their lives for a brutal death for a 'fiction'?
It’s always the same: “ if we agree that none of what is written there is true-then obviously nothing of what is written there is true”.
Circular reasoning.
There is no denying that Professor Eisenman knows his scripture, and he is far more knowledgeable than most ... especially me; however, his opinion on Paul's views on the law is not correct. Paul makes it very clear in Romans that the law is good. "If it were not for the law, I would not have known my sin.
where did Paul say in Romans that he agreed with the law.
For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
I think what Paul was trying to say was the law is not beneficial if you are trying to obtain salvation by works. Only through faith in Christ can we obtain salvation. Nobody can perfectly obey the law. Righteousness is not by our efforts, but by the Righteous of Christ.
Outstanding interview with an independent thinker who has developed an interesting perspective on the DSS and Christian origins. Biblical scholarship needs more people like Eisenman who think outside the box as a result of their non-traditional training and natural temperament and are willing to break ranks with an academy that tends to enforce consensus views.
Exactly! And the way they enforce consensus views is to define the box and label everyone outside that box to be a crank! So Dr. Robert Eisenmann, Dr Dennis MacDonald, and Dr Richard Carrier share the same company with Joseph Atwill, James Valliant, and D.M. Murdock (Acharaya S).
Thank you. I have now watched this several times and glean something fresh each time. I would need to use a thousand words to convey what is heartfelt in only two; thank you.
Just keep in mind that this is Only his personal opinion and Not the ultimate truth 😊
any righteousness of a man is only because of the righteousness of Christ's indwelling of said man .. this guy is not saying things that are the truth.. No man is good only Jesus.. and only through Him are we made pure ..so this guy talking about being made pure by ritual cleansing so they can commune with angels.. is not in the Bible. but i do not think he cares about what the Bible says.. Jesus stressed that in the days before His return that you "Be Not Decieved"!!! be careful who you listen to.
@@rickstrole9634 I feel encouraged, by James Tabor especially, and more inclined to read the bible because of his scholarly appreciation and enthusiasm than if I hadn't listened to him. I've been put off by many pontificating, self-righteous, judgemental 'Christians' who denigrate earnest truth seekers. James Tabor has helped me to take down that wall of defence and to have an enquiring mind once more.
@@pds002 Good for you . . . I am a Christian . . . this guy readily admits to not knowing the Bible, the NT, & it shows - but the depth in which he ended up having to learn what he was translating from the dead sea scrolls . . . he has no reason to lie.
What he was learning, intrigued him & he got a pretty good grasp of the NT without knowing what was in the NT, I'm impressed & I appreciate an unbiased, new pair of eyes that is NOT trying to convince me to believe what they believe to win me over to their personal "religion"
The end result: you read the Bible for yourself, with this new perspective - ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you, not any human . . . & I hope you & I will have all of eternity to debate it together.
@@rickstrole9634 jesus said there were many rightous men. Hay when did a christian preacher last say to pratcice what jesus taught? If one did it world make history.
But Menachem the Essene prophesized that Herod the Great would become king and found favour with the Herodian dynasty. Then in the Acts of the Apostles, another Menahem or Manean an early Christian or Jewish Christian, anoints Saul in the power of the Holy Spirit for his ministry to the gentiles, commissions him and sends him out, (Acts 13.1). This Menahem grew up with Herod the Tetrarch. So, there were already links to the Herodian dynasty from the Essenes and as you can see the Essenes and the Christians were much more closely linked than anyone wishes to admit.
Joan E Taylor's book called The Essenes, the Scolls and the Dead Sea has some intersting information anout Essenes and Herodians.
St. Paul is not a man of little integrity who is flexible with the truth. He is the apostle to the gentiles and is proclaiming a new covenant whereby people are regulated by the Holy Spirit not the law. Jesus says in Luke 16:16 that when John comes (John the Baptist) the law and the prophets are no longer in effect and it is kingdom living. Kingdom living is the key as the presence and power of God is the kingdom on earth. "If I drive out demons with the finger of God the Kingdom of God has come upon you". This is the difference in living in the flesh that requires the law or living in the Spirit which requires no law. Or to put it another way it is the difference between living in the world or beyond the veil in the Holy of Holies.
This is what St. Paul is cleverly advocating that there are two ways. One is worldly and requires the law the other is heavenly and requires the Spirit. The Teacher of Righteousness says it perfectly when he said "when I recalled Your mighty hand along with the abundance of Your mercy then I was restored and I stood up; my spirit grew strong ... for you expiate (make amends for) iniquity to cleanse a human being from guilt by your righteousness". It is the perfection of God's way that He can turn his face away from your sin and wipe it out.
Thankyou for a well written comment. I enjoyed reading thru it!🙂
Have you read Matthew 5:17-19? These are the words of the Messiah. Be careful how you interpret the past, current and future importance of the eternal Law of God.
What are u yapping about? Kingdom of God is laws of God, moses was the first prophet to receive laws to govern a land, this is key 🔑 because look at the west today it governs by laws of Satan not laws of God, and Jesus was preaching the good news of the son of man to come after him and establish the laws of God and get rid of the roman empire out of Jerusalem maybe look in history and see who this figure is
so since you claim the Law was disposed of.... then explain to everyone how that works. The Law includes commandments to not murder, not steal, amongst many others.
The Law doesn't burden anyone. In fact it brings forth life and blessings.
Yahusha my Master and King states unequivocally that He didn't come to do away with the Law so how are you overlookimg that?
you are twisting Scriptures!
@@cassandraconroy563 I haven't disposed of the law. It is just that the people are regulated differently. In Luke 16:16 Jesus says, " when John comes the law and the prophets are no longer in effect and it is kingdom living" which is followed closely by Luke 16:17 by "not one dot or iota will pass from the law until heaven and earth pass away". This is because there is the coming of the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ which will regulate the people and bring the kingdom. "If I drive out a demon with the finger of God the kingdom og God has come upon you". The power of God will now fall on anybody and not just the Great High Priest beyond the veil in the temple. God does this because Jerusalem is about to be sacked and the temple destroyed. The temple laws and the place itself used to regulate the lives of the people but the great prophecy of the time was the destruction of the temple. It was Jesus's major prophecy. The idea that the ordinances and the precepts would be followed and would regulate the Zadokites of the Dead Sea Scrolls until the coming of the messiah (s) of Aaron and Israel is found in the sectarian writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Clearly something of the law and its holiness comes in the Holy Spirit and becomes written on your heart with love. See Nick Shakoor's the chosen actors testimony of the Holy Fire and his repentance of idols. You can see from this testimony that God can also be scary and you can see why the Jews used to tie a rope around the Great High Priest when he entered the Holy of Holies in case the Great High Priest was killed!
The law is for the world but is not necessary if you live in the kingdom and beyond the veil in the power of God and the perfection of his way. In reality life is paradoxical but God can turn his face away from your sins and wipe them out.
If Paul was part of Herod’s family then why didn’t Herod protect him? Paul appealed to Caesar for a hearing, not Herod.
He might be able to translate them to english but hes to blind to see.
Proverbs 4:7
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
This interview is brilliant. Thank you James. 🎉
Eisenman has some of his old Long Beach State Classes on the net for FREE. He rambles a bit and can be moved off topic but the stream of thought is worth it.
Possibly brilliant in researching the DSS, but this man is in no way a biblical scholar. He speaks many incorrect “facts,” that are found nowhere in Scripture, leading many astray. To say the derogatory things he does, when he himself is not a believer in Yeshua יהרשע “Jesus,” is quite sad.
I am also an avid Hebrew researcher. The language absolutely lines up with the visions of Daniel and the book of Revelation. Angels are Warriors and implement Gods judgment. The Gospel of Jesus and words for His people: were not written by Paul. His name was YeShua. It was later changed by the Roman Catholics. 1,000’s of early original documents exists about him. Are you a wine drinker?
Paul and James were aware the age of Levitical priesthood was coming to a complete end. I dont htink they knew when the destruction of the temple would be. Paul cites or alludes to Qumarn documents- Enoch, The Testaments of the 12 as does James. The book of Hebrews illustrated that the Law was to change- a Melchizedek priesthood for a Levitical one. Im sure that 40 years wasnt exactly a homogeneous belief system. They were in a time of transition. Acts 21 illustrates that chaos of change. Ultimately, James also knew a change had occurred. That is apperent in his use of "Royal Law" - the law of a King who is a priest ( Melchizedek or Jesus) rather than just a priest.
When YAHshua said [Upon this rock] He would build the Church, I don't think he was speaking of Peter. [He might have] been speaking of Himself.
This should be interesting. I first discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls via his book The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered shortly after it was released what seems ages ago now.
I don’t always agree with him BUT he had interesting views.
Same. That was my 1st DSS book.
@@SMitch231 it stirred a life long passion for them inside me, and lead me to Dr. Tabor along the way with his own involvement with them.
@@atheistapostate7019 It's very compelling. I've been away from the subject in an active way for many years. Am now retired, and I've found Dr. Tabor and other great resources on the interweb. I'm delighted and feel very lucky.
Greco Roman Christianity. Makes sense that this kind of christianity would believe in Hercules, I mean a demigod such as the Jesus that is presented by them. Part man part god.
Also the St Paul character was under court review by the New Jerusalem guys to consider excommunication. The real history is pure blasphemy for the Christians and the Jews
There are two different "Zadoks"- one who are liberal Sadducees and the other proests who left to prepare the way for Messiah.
Just becaise Sadducees haf the word Zadok in theor name doesn't identity them with the Qumran community
Paul was arguing against THE SACRIFICIAL LAW not any other part of the law. He says the law is holy just and good, perfecting the soul. He was teaching that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial law. We as Christians should be zealots of the law because the law tells us how we should conduct ourselves.
This man does not understand the Divine Council worldview, and therefore second temple Judaism, which means he doesn’t understand the texts he is reading
This is the most epic crossover, kinda secretly anticipated it for a long time.
You're both similar but different.
This interview was recorded years ago and has been in UA-cam for ever. I don't think it actually is an interview of eisenman by Tabor. That would be awesome. I believe that Eisenman is the difficult one to wrangle And get in a room with Tabor but please go ahead and try. I'd absolutely love to see that "crossover". Good luck. Your gonna probably need a good lasso and a Few thousand dollars cash, plus some good kosher vegetarian food
I love this man! Thank you James for the introduction.
Prof. Tabor is so honest so truth focused so humble
I couldn't agree more, Dr Tabor was born to teach he's a natural. He is such a great communicator you can do nothing other than sit back & listen. I can watch one of his video's & the information sticks. I'll learn more from Dr Tabor than from any other channel.
“…The reader now has the option of deciding which version of Josephus is more accurate in this regard -….”
“ Before pulling all these seemingly disparate datum together, we should perhaps turn to one final practice relevant to discussing…”
Quotes from Jerusalem Post article by this Scholar… BUT no one should reconfigure dating of archaeological artifacts to fit “their own community preferences” Genuine analysis will be ongoing for hundreds of years. “Conclusions” are revelatory at times… but mostly regarding the biases of an expert.
Paul was a chosen vessel because he understood being a born again Jew being a Pharisee and he understood being a born again gentile. He understood the difference.
Paul was a born again Jew. He kept the feasts and the law to the best of his ability while understanding that Yahushua is the messiah.
He did not expect Gentiles to keep the feasts or the law. The laws of faith and love are what our life is all about.
I am interested in the Dead Sea Scrolls because I want to be a part of a New Testament church.
I don't think the organized church we have today is the model I see in the early church.
Total nonsense, omitting so much to fit his strange worldview.
Thanks for bringing us this interview!
Beautiful portion, best of the interview 58:11 - What Robert believe in - righteousness. Very inspiring, with basic common sense.
So sad he seems to think his righteousness can please God, he is using the wrong standard. Needs to read Isaiah 64:6, it in the dead sea scrolls.
@@dustye753 Wut? You are missing the point.
Here is the difference between what Robert believes and what you see what many call "faith" or "belief".
It is a common idea among Christians that if they just do the sinners prayer - then "once saved always saved" and regardless of the sin that their "righteousness now is in Jesus". The effect that is common is that they think it is some sort of magic spell that will "take away their sins regardless of their actions" and basically it becomes pointless to be actually righteous because "the Law was nailed to the Cross" that hey are "Free from the Law".
You can spot that type easily. They view any actual obsevance of the Law as the new "sin" and think that they have some form of moral superiority because "they are in Jesus" and "all their sins has been taken away by Jesus".
Robert is not trying to "please God". He is just trying to understand what righeousness is, understanding that that is what makes you a "better person" not just mumbling some verses out of context to justify your own transgression of the Law.
So he says - "whatever makes you more righteous" . And I agree with him. The goal is to have a righteous soceity with righteous people, not a soceity filled with law breakers who think they are immune from judgement and revel in their own ignorance - which is exactly what we see with the modern church and their "Free from the Law" doctrine.
This type of "righteousness" being subjective to every person's heart feeling guilty is that people no longer feel guilty for breaking some of the most basic commands from the Torah. That can't be the standard we use to determine righteousness.
I think Robert is (intentionally?) misunderstood here. He is arguing for basic common sense righteousness - which is exactly what Torah is about.
Those pushing all kinds of "spirituality" which is totally subjective is the problem - because nothing is certain - and that is the types who push "free from the Law" doctrines in favour of totally subjective "salvation" doctrine.
@@isrbillmeyer Right like Romans 8 explains, the believer is now free from the Law of sin and death.
I now see why Dr. James Tabor thinks this is the best interview ever. The entire video all these interesting thoughts was fusing together and setting the nuke off, just absolutely....wow! Its like I was in a room with both Tabor and Eisenman discussing the dead sea scrolls with each other while I sat back listen to both sides. Just brilliant!
Are you questioning the scriptures or are you questioning the perception of people's beliefs in these scriptions, which tends to anger peoples more quickly?
47:36 his sense of right and wrong did come from scripture. His "sense" comes from his culture. His culture is based on "Western Civilization". Western Civilization is based completely from Judeo/Christianity. Judeo/Christianity is.... Yep, based on Scripture.