I personally think gatekeeping is natural and needed to keep subcultures from dying. We see how the internet etc has impacted subcultures to become almost non existent. People can just ”join” a subculture one day and ”leave” it the next. Its not a lifestyle anymore. When something is taken from a subculture and made popular it is ruined by people who dont respect and understand the subculture and its history. I think it’s too easy to learn about things these days and it makes people just jump from trend to trend not committing and finding life long interest in a subculture. It also makes subculture scenes weak as people can just pose on social media and read about stuff online without participating in events of ”real life” stuff. Gatekeeping is also misunderstood as people just being mean and not wanting others to be a part of something by not telling them about something when in reality I think its just natural that you cant learn everything instantly and have to put in ”work” to get into something. People are always happy to help but I don’t blame them being suspicious or cautious when people just water down the thing they love and leave the second a new trend is present. Thats just my 2 cents
Just tuning in…I’m not really a fashion girl but find your content so interesting. Your depth of knowledge and ability to make sociological critiques about the modern fashion space is unique and incredibly perceptive. Please keep up the good work.
smth I find interesting is that since I got off TikTok and ig, I rlly don't see these cores even tho I live in one of the fashion capitals. I only started recognising some of them again when I started using Pinterest but I immediately got tired of them, even if they were new to me or I hadn't been exposed to images like them in months. I'm still getting a lot of inspiration from the ppl I see irl bc its easier to get a grasp of who each person is from what they say and do and their mannerisms and whatnot, and u get a good understanding of why they wear what they wear. whereas on Pinterest and all these other algorithm based apps u see a lot of ppl who look cool, but all in the same way so it feels like these ppl are just reproducing the same motifs that I'm seeing when I look at their pictures, whether that's the whole story or not
I want to show this video to my friends, my mom, my bus driver i want everyone to know this! No but seriously the way you explain coolness and nicheness just makes me reflect on these kind of processes that i dont usually question bc we are so used to the mainstream just butchering the real sentiment behind teens craving an identity and an identity that feels more “real” and unique and you just hit the nail in the head. Verrrryy enjoyable stuff Thank You!!
You’re becoming one of my favorite UA-camrs. I love how you talk about society’s influence on fashion and trends and vice versa and not just how trends are “good” or “bad”. And the longer the vid the better keep it up!
I appreciate the thought that coolness is morally neutral. We can cast a wide net with our experience and perception of cool. We can keep a balanced and critical perspective on it. We can see it as a nudge to examine evocative objects in meaningful ways. And we can enjoy the thrill of it.
I think the culture of Pinterest not sourcing also adds to the decontextualization and tbh tht culture i think partially evolved from tumblr though at least on Tumblr there were communities that sourced from where they were reposting the images and Tumblr has built in hyperlinks..on Tumblr there were people with blog themes that were all the pictures of a post with no words or sources. But on pinterest i havent personally a lot of sources where images were from..tumblrs reblogging system also means that even if you didnt source something someone down the line could. Basically elaborating on your point about how tumblr being a microblogging platform made it different so decontextualization isnt always a given
literally. when u were talking people being happy n excited abt exploring new fashion i remembered me during 2020/2021 even in 2020 the rise of labeling (at least on my side of the internet) i was really overwhelmed. and i bought tabis which i barely even wear like.... at this point i just try to explore what ever makes me happy and i see myself wearing in the future. its difficult to get out of the fashion bubble where people try to predict and micro-label and overwhelm you, atp im tryna to get off most socials and just wear what i wat and go back to what originally drew me to fashion.
Instructing people on how to be subversive seems wrong. Coming form an old school rave/punk background the idea of having instructions on how to fuck shit up is suss. You end up creating cookie cutter "niche underground" spaces of sameness
I also keep thinking back to the days when A Shaded View and SHOWstudio started out. We were all so hungry for information and inspiration. Then came along bloggers like Susie Bubble. All these platforms gave access to information and imagery that was once very hard to source. We're now in a state of near constant bombardment of info and images, it's like a buzzing coming from somewhere in the room that you just give up trying to find and just live with it.
This is such a good video for making sense of what the hell has happened the past couple years! Also thank u for helping me get thru a really boring hour of work !
I think part of the desire to label also comes from just wanting to fashion an identity which is always important but particularly when you’re younger. I think u can see a similar trend in mental health where some things that are just a staple of the human condition e.g. intense sadness all of a sudden necessitates a specific label so u have kids, and understandably so, conflating brief but intense sadness with like clinical depression. Im not saying it’s that they want to be depressed necessarily but that they want to be something. Especially now where there’s a lot more skepticism towards the more conventional things that traditionally gave ppl meaningful identities e.g. religion, and a general feeling of disconnection, I feel like we’re in a time where u have to do so much more of it yourself. You have to do more to curate a sense of self because less is given to u now. I think this is especially true in the west particularly with people who perhaps don’t have strong ties to a larger culture or something outside of themselves hence ppl turn to say subversive fashion to fill those gaps and use that to curate identity more. And then that intersects with the extreme emphasis nowadays on individualism and just general uniqueness that can feel so important to have in adolescence and young adulthood. Not that all this didn’t happen before but I think it’s a bit different now.
watching your vids and reading “status and culture” around the same time feels like a part of my brain is finally being itched that’s been bugging me for so long lmao thank u rian!!!
Ok, I officially found someone that can really talk about fashion like the weird conceptual art of our society that it is . You have phenomenal insights and observations, I really admire your research and approach to this topic . I found this title mentioned in another videos comment section , and my art school antenna went off , the title is perfection 🎉😊
Thanks for the warning, I'm epileptic and not enough people give warnings for flashing lights/images. I still watched because the pace wasn't that fast.
amazing video and glad u shouted out us tumblr vets. im almost 25 and got into the "subersive" fasion world u mentioned through tumblr in the 2010s. blew my fucking mind and it completely changed my style and the way i viewed clothing in general. life happened tho and i was so discouraged by tumblr dying that i lost track of all this shit. crazy to hear about what happened (within online fashion spaces) after i went on a like 5 year long hiatus (or maybe even longer). im so excited and encouraged by channels like yours that are doing like, really strong fashion journalism i can just listen to on my commute or doing chores n shit. no idea if u guys are new but i really fuck with it and hope you keep it up!!!! i will watch all ur videos.
Rian I swear I felt like I was tripping when i notice the link between experimental fashion and music on tiktok. For example I started listening to arca a little bit before the tiktok era really started in 2020, and before that I never heard anyone on the app talk about her or post-apocalyptic archived fashion. But it seems like the subculture that was growing at the time found strength in the app itself during that time. Now the link between the two is bigger than ever
your videos are always so thought provoking thank u for this. love what you said about the need to feel authentic in your interest of brands and aesthetics, I totally relate that to my art practice and the way many studio artists feel we need to be original and unique even though that’s literally fake/not possible
I literally remember having TikTok in freshman year of HS before covid started, and getting made fun of for having it, but since it wasn't so large scale then, I would see so many people in alternative fashion, interests in anime, Kpop and things I was interested in. And literally after covid started the second half of my second year is when It just spiked in growth.
I think that the tiktokification of subversive fashion is going to result in the rise of new, even more exclusive, modes of signalling status...For instance, I recently learned that Amelia Gray is Amelia Gray HAMLIN...and as an ex-avid watcher of the real housewives franchises she's literally unrecognizable...I never thought she would start doing her eyebrows like that and get the buccal fat removal...now she looks so "edgy" and "cool" and she's walking for Dilara Findikoglu...once something becomes prominent on tik tok the innovators and the early adopters will naturally start gravitating in the opposite direction...I'm seeing a return to normcore and traditional silhouettes and less of the "not like other girls" Bella Hadid weird depop girlie style....
I was selling archive from its inception of popularity but even to source now you can't price anything reasonably so anyone can participate or purchase. Over it, i'm going in a new direction now, I'm going to sell of my pieces at a low price point to get rid of them. I used to love my tabis now i'm embarrassed to wear them. I find the whole trend and buying up obnoxious but am aware of my contribution as a reseller.
I'm so out of the loop w/ TikTok aside from glimpses from a distance over the web. Coolness, or the rejection of coolness is a very human thing; we are fulfilling social need to belong. I guess trends more or less reflect the same patterns in humanity lol.
When a particular style or motif in fashion becomes ubiquitous, what does that shift represent in the world? For example low rise jeans are associated with heroin chic/ed does that necessarily correspond to body negative ideals being normalized?(i wish I had a more positive example 😢)
Love this guy’s brain soo much 😮💨 it’s like bro always sees what i see but knows how to organize it and articulate it with out crying Was not expecting this video to be about this, I love it so much Guys just get cool hobbies, Take a nap and reflect, Be u don’t be cool 🫶🏾
I personally think gatekeeping is natural and needed to keep subcultures from dying. We see how the internet etc has impacted subcultures to become almost non existent. People can just ”join” a subculture one day and ”leave” it the next. Its not a lifestyle anymore. When something is taken from a subculture and made popular it is ruined by people who dont respect and understand the subculture and its history. I think it’s too easy to learn about things these days and it makes people just jump from trend to trend not committing and finding life long interest in a subculture. It also makes subculture scenes weak as people can just pose on social media and read about stuff online without participating in events of ”real life” stuff. Gatekeeping is also misunderstood as people just being mean and not wanting others to be a part of something by not telling them about something when in reality I think its just natural that you cant learn everything instantly and have to put in ”work” to get into something. People are always happy to help but I don’t blame them being suspicious or cautious when people just water down the thing they love and leave the second a new trend is present. Thats just my 2 cents
Just tuning in…I’m not really a fashion girl but find your content so interesting. Your depth of knowledge and ability to make sociological critiques about the modern fashion space is unique and incredibly perceptive. Please keep up the good work.
love the way you worded this
I couldn’t agree more.
in my mind those fast paced aesthetic tiktoks are the new version of polyvore albums and collages
smth I find interesting is that since I got off TikTok and ig, I rlly don't see these cores even tho I live in one of the fashion capitals. I only started recognising some of them again when I started using Pinterest but I immediately got tired of them, even if they were new to me or I hadn't been exposed to images like them in months. I'm still getting a lot of inspiration from the ppl I see irl bc its easier to get a grasp of who each person is from what they say and do and their mannerisms and whatnot, and u get a good understanding of why they wear what they wear. whereas on Pinterest and all these other algorithm based apps u see a lot of ppl who look cool, but all in the same way so it feels like these ppl are just reproducing the same motifs that I'm seeing when I look at their pictures, whether that's the whole story or not
when teachers would ask who I would invite to dinner living or dead you are #1 on that list, yup.
I want to show this video to my friends, my mom, my bus driver i want everyone to know this! No but seriously the way you explain coolness and nicheness just makes me reflect on these kind of processes that i dont usually question bc we are so used to the mainstream just butchering the real sentiment behind teens craving an identity and an identity that feels more “real” and unique and you just hit the nail in the head. Verrrryy enjoyable stuff Thank You!!
the exhaustion is so real it made me delete tiktok and I feel more like myself again
You’re becoming one of my favorite UA-camrs. I love how you talk about society’s influence on fashion and trends and vice versa and not just how trends are “good” or “bad”. And the longer the vid the better keep it up!
exactly!
I appreciate the thought that coolness is morally neutral. We can cast a wide net with our experience and perception of cool. We can keep a balanced and critical perspective on it. We can see it as a nudge to examine evocative objects in meaningful ways. And we can enjoy the thrill of it.
I like to think I’m open minded but you always bust it even WIDER like damn maybe I’m thinking too small haha thanks for this, I learn so much
I could hear your fashion commentary all day omg
I think the culture of Pinterest not sourcing also adds to the decontextualization and tbh tht culture i think partially evolved from tumblr though at least on Tumblr there were communities that sourced from where they were reposting the images and Tumblr has built in hyperlinks..on Tumblr there were people with blog themes that were all the pictures of a post with no words or sources. But on pinterest i havent personally a lot of sources where images were from..tumblrs reblogging system also means that even if you didnt source something someone down the line could. Basically elaborating on your point about how tumblr being a microblogging platform made it different so decontextualization isnt always a given
literally. when u were talking people being happy n excited abt exploring new fashion i remembered me during 2020/2021 even in 2020 the rise of labeling (at least on my side of the internet) i was really overwhelmed. and i bought tabis which i barely even wear like.... at this point i just try to explore what ever makes me happy and i see myself wearing in the future. its difficult to get out of the fashion bubble where people try to predict and micro-label and overwhelm you, atp im tryna to get off most socials and just wear what i wat and go back to what originally drew me to fashion.
Instructing people on how to be subversive seems wrong. Coming form an old school rave/punk background the idea of having instructions on how to fuck shit up is suss. You end up creating cookie cutter "niche underground" spaces of sameness
agree 100%
I also keep thinking back to the days when A Shaded View and SHOWstudio started out. We were all so hungry for information and inspiration. Then came along bloggers like Susie Bubble. All these platforms gave access to information and imagery that was once very hard to source. We're now in a state of near constant bombardment of info and images, it's like a buzzing coming from somewhere in the room that you just give up trying to find and just live with it.
this guy gets it !!
This is such a good video for making sense of what the hell has happened the past couple years! Also thank u for helping me get thru a really boring hour of work !
I think part of the desire to label also comes from just wanting to fashion an identity which is always important but particularly when you’re younger. I think u can see a similar trend in mental health where some things that are just a staple of the human condition e.g. intense sadness all of a sudden necessitates a specific label so u have kids, and understandably so, conflating brief but intense sadness with like clinical depression. Im not saying it’s that they want to be depressed necessarily but that they want to be something. Especially now where there’s a lot more skepticism towards the more conventional things that traditionally gave ppl meaningful identities e.g. religion, and a general feeling of disconnection, I feel like we’re in a time where u have to do so much more of it yourself. You have to do more to curate a sense of self because less is given to u now. I think this is especially true in the west particularly with people who perhaps don’t have strong ties to a larger culture or something outside of themselves hence ppl turn to say subversive fashion to fill those gaps and use that to curate identity more. And then that intersects with the extreme emphasis nowadays on individualism and just general uniqueness that can feel so important to have in adolescence and young adulthood. Not that all this didn’t happen before but I think it’s a bit different now.
i am 100% following the course and overlapping lessons between ur videos. so cool!!
Great to hear! thanks so much for being here
watching your vids and reading “status and culture” around the same time feels like a part of my brain is finally being itched that’s been bugging me for so long lmao thank u rian!!!
thank you for watching ugh I have to get my hands on that
Ok, I officially found someone that can really talk about fashion like the weird conceptual art of our society that it is .
You have phenomenal insights and observations, I really admire your research and approach to this topic .
I found this title mentioned in another videos comment section , and my art school antenna went off , the title is perfection 🎉😊
Thanks for the warning, I'm epileptic and not enough people give warnings for flashing lights/images. I still watched because the pace wasn't that fast.
amazing video and glad u shouted out us tumblr vets. im almost 25 and got into the "subersive" fasion world u mentioned through tumblr in the 2010s. blew my fucking mind and it completely changed my style and the way i viewed clothing in general. life happened tho and i was so discouraged by tumblr dying that i lost track of all this shit. crazy to hear about what happened (within online fashion spaces) after i went on a like 5 year long hiatus (or maybe even longer). im so excited and encouraged by channels like yours that are doing like, really strong fashion journalism i can just listen to on my commute or doing chores n shit. no idea if u guys are new but i really fuck with it and hope you keep it up!!!! i will watch all ur videos.
rian is iconic
Rian I swear I felt like I was tripping when i notice the link between experimental fashion and music on tiktok. For example I started listening to arca a little bit before the tiktok era really started in 2020, and before that I never heard anyone on the app talk about her or post-apocalyptic archived fashion. But it seems like the subculture that was growing at the time found strength in the app itself during that time. Now the link between the two is bigger than ever
The entire transcript of that preservation section needs to be on billboards nationwide
purrr i love your content
your videos are always so thought provoking thank u for this. love what you said about the need to feel authentic in your interest of brands and aesthetics, I totally relate that to my art practice and the way many studio artists feel we need to be original and unique even though that’s literally fake/not possible
you are truly my favourite person on the internet. your mind amazes me and i’ve learnt so much from your videos
I literally remember having TikTok in freshman year of HS before covid started, and getting made fun of for having it, but since it wasn't so large scale then, I would see so many people in alternative fashion, interests in anime, Kpop and things I was interested in. And literally after covid started the second half of my second year is when It just spiked in growth.
I think that the tiktokification of subversive fashion is going to result in the rise of new, even more exclusive, modes of signalling status...For instance, I recently learned that Amelia Gray is Amelia Gray HAMLIN...and as an ex-avid watcher of the real housewives franchises she's literally unrecognizable...I never thought she would start doing her eyebrows like that and get the buccal fat removal...now she looks so "edgy" and "cool" and she's walking for Dilara Findikoglu...once something becomes prominent on tik tok the innovators and the early adopters will naturally start gravitating in the opposite direction...I'm seeing a return to normcore and traditional silhouettes and less of the "not like other girls" Bella Hadid weird depop girlie style....
Looking at Amelia it eerily seems like she tried to steal Gabbriette's face lol
Yes! You are spot on
so grateful for rians vids. ive been getting so bored of fashion since mid 2020 but this kinda stuff keeps the gears turning❤️
Omg I live in Australia and don’t know what cool night life fashion looks like. I want to know 😫
another Rian Phin banger
A 50 min feature length film!!!
Have you heard about logocentrism by derrida? He is a philosopher. He talk about illusionary symbols, and what is fashion but symbols.
The second LOL thank you for the video
I was selling archive from its inception of popularity but even to source now you can't price anything reasonably so anyone can participate or purchase. Over it, i'm going in a new direction now, I'm going to sell of my pieces at a low price point to get rid of them. I used to love my tabis now i'm embarrassed to wear them. I find the whole trend and buying up obnoxious but am aware of my contribution as a reseller.
Thank u for putting this into words shit is played tf out
I'm so out of the loop w/ TikTok aside from glimpses from a distance over the web. Coolness, or the rejection of coolness is a very human thing; we are fulfilling social need to belong. I guess trends more or less reflect the same patterns in humanity lol.
thank you for such an awesome, organized, and relatable video. Great thoughts fr i be meditating on the same shit
oh and educational
50 minutes 😳 Let’s goooo 🥳🥳 Bro in her Steven Spielberg bag 😮💨
Thought 50 minutes would suffice but it didn't 😔 can't believe its over 😔 RIAN THIS ONE WAS 50 MINUTE MAKE THE NEXT ONE 3 HOURS KAPEESH 😡
When a particular style or motif in fashion becomes ubiquitous, what does that shift represent in the world? For example low rise jeans are associated with heroin chic/ed does that necessarily correspond to body negative ideals being normalized?(i wish I had a more positive example 😢)
your analysis 🫶🏾
So mad when tiktok synced my contacts when i literally pressed no😅 oddly dodging my cousins and random ppls “suggested vids” as they dodge mine.
came from Fashionlover4! Great content
your videos being a chainlink… the RCU (Rian Cinematic Universe)
i love ur videossss
SOOOO EXCITED FOR THIS LOVE UR CONTENT
is anyone here still on/back on tumblr 😭 i need friends to share art and fashion blogging w again
I love the way you say things
this make me wanna gatekeep
thank you 🫶🏾
new year new rian vid new me
Seated!
I hope that your red hair phase changes the stigma surrounding red hair phases .
seated
the daisy chain continues
I'm curious about how you talk with friends. Like I just want to hear you say "look at this comment its fucking stupid"
Yesss
PARENTTTTTT
great discussion 💜
As a New Yorker.... Can't relate.
ok :)
cmon u live in new york 🤣
what even is this video omg
FIRST
Love this guy’s brain soo much 😮💨 it’s like bro always sees what i see but knows how to organize it and articulate it with out crying
Was not expecting this video to be about this, I love it so much
Guys just get cool hobbies, Take a nap and reflect, Be u don’t be cool 🫶🏾
Peeping your transition from defending yourself, explaining yourself, to now narrating your intentions in a take it or leave it kind of way 🫶🏾