Chase Utley, Ian Kinsler, and The Rule of 2,000 (The Hall of Fame Case)
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- Hey everybody!
In this video, I look at the careers of Chase Utley and Ian Kinsler and see whether they are worthy of being in the hall of fame, despite neither of them hitting 2,000 career hits. I hope you enjoy the video!
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It makes me upset that Kinsler ended with one hit shy of 2000 hits.
My OCD gets triggered every time I remember Arod retiring with 696 home runs lol
@@tyler7992 Yup, he missed one year from the suspension, would've easily surpassed 700
Tyler I’d much rather Arod have under 700 even if it’s an eyesore of a number. It’s a travesty the league didn’t permanently ban him before hit 3,000
Eh, it wouldn't help him in his Hall of Fame case anyway. Lance Berkman was off the ballots his first attempt, and he was a better player.
@@PaulieWalnuts1776 what
Utley also has the best stealing percentage all time. His old school, all-or-nothing style of play enabled him to be one of the greatest base runners in the history of baseball. Baseball IQ was 170. His knee problems didn’t last until 2014, by the start of 2013 his knee condition was remedied thanks to offseason workouts at a local California college. He missed a month in may-June 2013 for a strained oblique that occurred in Miami during BP. As for his fielding, he was drastically underrated for his entire career. He got robbed of winning the nl gold glove in 2014. Nobody gave him respect for his defense until after retirement. Yes, his bat regressed after 2014, but running and defense was still immaculate. Outstanding all-around player. He should go in!
No he doesn’t lol. He’s 3rd highest. Still fantastic but also Tbf he only has 176 attempts. Great base runner but not the highest percentage. Alexi and Byron Buxton are beyond him
@@alexbenton6306 at the time I wrote this he was first. But he wasn’t nearly as fast as Buxton, which says a lot.
I don’t know, he won more GGs than Phillips.
Do Jimmy Rollins!! Love the vids :)
YES JIMMY ROLLINS
Utley had his grand slam first hit on April 24, 2003. I know that because my parents were at that game.
And I assume you were born on January 24, 2004?
Taylor Gay 🤣🤣🤣
Taylor Gay bro im dead 💀😂😂😂
I remember it well! It was my 10th birthday
yoooo i was born a day after that
I'd be interested in David Wright's case. He only has 1777 hits but he made the all-star game 7 times, won 2 gold gloves and silver sluggers, finished 4th in NL MVP voting in 2007, and had a career 133 OPS+
Had it not been for his spinal disease he would be a no doubter.
good one
if he stayed healthy, i think he would've made it imo
He will never get in but i hope he does. Terrific Ballplayer Injuries cost him a shot at the hall
Injuries completely took him out, great guy and ballplayer
Great video, i think that one thing that goes unnoticed about Utley's game is that he had amazing baseball presence. He knew where the ball was, he knew where the play was, he knew where the players were. Its something that can't be captured in stats alone, look up Utley's career highlights and you'll see what I mean
A lot of it with Utley is that he played in Philadelphia which doesn't always get the national recognition for players. Utley also made the greatest defensive play of that 2008 W.S. too; if he was Derek Jeter on the national stage making plays like that, this wouldn't even be a consideration; he'd easily be voted in.
“The Phillies don’t get National recognition” might just be the single dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard in my entire life. Congratulations, I’m proud of you.
Congrats! 1000 subs! Next step: 10k
Do I smell something done the line between you two?
no, we don't need another stat people don't understand, baseball has too many metrics no casualperson can understand and is. Just saying the jaws metric is stupid
@@slashismyhommie8182 Ok boomer
@@noah_that_bills_fan1613 it took you 3 months to do a "boomer" response to me???
LMAO oh God you're so out of touch you loser.
Dodgers fan here, Utley is the man. It was a joy to watch him those last few seasons and it’s great to see him around the team to this day. His influence is still felt. He should go to the HoF as a Phillies legend.
He may have injured Tejeda, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he still was an amazing player that should be in the hall of fame.
Of Course, most remember as a Phillie as he spent his prime years there. If not for Tejada trying to be cute, I don't think most people would remember that Utley played in LA
“More modern players”: Shoeless Joe Jackson.
Utley is my favorite player of all time. Just found ur channel, Great video!
Andrew McCutchen and what he has to do to become a hall of famer
Also it should be noted, Utley was one of the two best 2B during the 2000s with Cano. I think that is important to note. Also 2B are the third lowest number of players in the HOF with 23, so I don't think offensive measurements are as important than with someone like Mauer, who spent time at first, a premium hitting position.
Mauer also caught too. Catching is harder on the body than almost any other position.
Cliff lee and chase utley left an impression on me when I was a teenager watching the world series against the yankees.
Utley had such a short & sweet swing. Compact & quick , with a lot of pop.
I'm so glad SRS featured you. I wouldn't know about you otherwise, and you've got some great content!
Keith Austin thank you
I really enjoy these videos! I’d love to see HOF videos on Brandon Phillips and Dustin Pedroia.
The great Pedroiski will probably make it. Key piece to multiple championship winning (and curse breaking) Sox teams.
Michael delgado he wasn’t on the curse breaking team
Pedey has the accolades, the only concern is whether he has the career statistics needed, something he definitely would have had if not for injuries.
YES!!!!
@@lordrevanz16Yes, but if we penalize pitchers and other hitters for injuries, you have to penalize Pedrioa. Al Oliver never made the HOF and he was hurt far less.
Great video! I’d love to see you do a breakdown of Dale Murphy’s HoF candidacy. I’d never heard of the 2000 rule before. The fact that Murphy had 2,111 career hits makes his case that much more compelling.
Had this recommended, great video. Well done, edited and paced. Earned a sub and hoping for more
Great stuff and congrats on 1,000 subs man!
Outta Here Baseball I love your content
thanks man
I just saw this comment while he said ur name
SportStorm ur at 1k 3 months ago
Ur gonna be at 100k by the end of 2020
This video reminded me that i would love to see a video on Dustin Pedroia, since he popped up in one of the stats. Very likely no chance for th HoF, but might be an interesting player to take a look at, since I feel like he got forgotten quite a bit over the last few years. Great video!
One thing you don’t really talk about enough was Chase Utleys incredibly high baseball iq. Charlie said he’s one of the smartest players he ever coached.
If you watch chase utley highlight videos, most of them are him hitting big homers or key clutch hits. But chase was far more than that.
If you’re not a Phillies fan but know baseball pretty well you probably are thinking of his defensive gems in huge key moments against the dodgers in the NLCS or the Rays in the 08 World Series(the pump fake). But he did that stuff all throughout his career on a weekly basis.
His baserunning gem against the braves on Ryan Howard’s infield ground ball where he scored from second bc he hustled his ass off and knew the braves weren’t paying enough attention made the legend Harry Kalas famously say “Chase Utley, you are the man”.
The man hustled more than any player I got to watch. If you polled fans in philly right now, he’d be high on the list of all time Philadelphia sports figures.
Chase Utley is indeed the man in Philadelphia!
Do jimmy Rollins!!
V True, I think Rollins will get in, especially because his numbers are extremely similar to Barry Larkin's numbers.
Great video, just subscribed 👏🏻👍🏻
thank you!
I’m not making a HOF case for Kinsler, and he wasn’t the most “liked” player but he was a solid asset to every team he played for
Great video! A really good suggestion, Bobby Abreu! Check his stats
I think he stayed on the ballots this past year on his first try, but barely. His numbers are phenomenal, i was shocked of his low % total.
he was my go-to fantasy player of that era
You deserve more subs. 👍
Chase Utley is My Favorite Phillie of All Time & should’ve been a F.B.H.O.F but the only thing that stop My Guy was them Injuries 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️... But when he was in his Prime not only was his Hitting Great his Defense was on a whole different Level... I can still hear say “WORLD F***ING CHAMPIONS” ugh Good Time Good Times... Ohhh also don’t get it Twisted My Ian was Nasty also I’m just made the Rangers wasted His Prime Years but anyway that’s a Debate for another day...
To anybody that’s watching this remember y’all, Keep Going & Be Safe 🤟🏾💯
Great video! Would like to see one on Mark Buehrle.
Great video
Utley's 2009 World Series along with helping the Phillies win their first title in 28 years in 2008 will push him over the top. He hit 5 HR's (tied for Reggie Jackson's World Series record), many at Yankee stadium against the best pitching staff in the league and almost singlehandedly willed the Phillies to back to back titles as a result. He singlehandedly kept hope alive that they could come back and win that series, and it must be kept in mind that this was the admitted steroided up Yankees with A-roid smacking easy homers on PED's. So maybe if the Yankees weren't juiced up, Utley would have been the unanimous MVP of the World Series that year.
Also, Utley played during the PED era in general, so his lack of MVP's needs to be reconsidered; fittingly, his PED-enhanced and proven user teammate Ryan Howard won the MVP one year over him. PED users inflate their statistics and power numbers to make all natural players' statistics like Utley's look way inferior. Remember that Utely was all natural but how can he compete in power numbers with Howard and Pujols (and all the others)? If it wasn't for the PED era he played in, Utley would have won an MVP, and he also would have placed higher in MVP voting order in several years.
As for stats, his WAR and 7 year WAR speak for themselves. He was a steroid-free dominant player in a time when 90% of dominant players were only dominant because of PED's. It can be at least speculated that Pujols was juicing too during that era, so imagine if that were true, and then it would make Utley the #1 best player during that era, hands down based on fWAR. And if it wasn't for his knee injuries, it wouldn't even be a question since he was so clutch and so good naturally. He even led and helped the Dodgers make it to the playoffs later in his career and get to the World Series (even though they came up short).
*Also, for the "eye test", I've been watching baseball for many decades, and Chase Utley is hands down the best "steroid-free" clutch hitter I have ever seen in my entire life, and it's not even close; honestly, you (or they) should come up with a new Stat category that measures the "clutch-level" of a hitter based on high pressure/high leverage scenarios they find themselves in- try to also tie in playoffs, world series, against top pitchers (this would be a great look at Utley bc he often rocked elite pitchers in their prime), and with the game on the line, etc....I can guarantee you, during that era, that Utley was in the top 5 clutch hitters in the MLB (and other than the confirmed PED users, I don't even think it will be close), and wouldn't be surprised if he was number one. But then, even beyond hitting, from fielding defense to base running and overall hustle and effort, Utley is one of the best all-around baseball players I also have ever watched play.
Another well presented case and statistical analysis. As a Ranger fan, I never really saw Kins as a HOF player. Better than average, but I had no disillusions that I was watching Roberto Alomar. Great work. Look forward to your next video.
I would hope you’re not looking for the next Roberto Alomar.😅
Amazing stuff!!!
Remember the little guy when you’re up to 300k a few months from now man. Love these videos.
:)
Would love to see one of these for Alfonso Soriano. He was an underrated stud for his entire career
You should do Mark Teixeira Hall of Fame case! One of if not the best switch hitter of all time!
Utley had an extremely high peak and should be in despite lack of longevity.
it wasn't that high of a peak. not enough.
@@hw5091 Umm, the guy accumulated +38.5 WAR over 5 seasons. If that isn't high, what is?
@@treygray2817 not long enough. and the old 2nd baseman loophole. I don't like the hall of the very good. I'd rather it be the best of the best players of their era. Utley, was not that.
@@hw5091 What is the 2B loophole?
Can you name a better 2B from Utley's era?
First hit was a grand slam, tied a world series record, and won a ring along with 3 total appearances. I feel like those credentials alone should be enough
Cecil Cooper! Milwaukee GOAT! Honestly, underrated career, really interesting to look at a deep dive of his career
Those Phillies teams of Howard Rollins Utley remind me of the cardinals of the 80s and Ozzie is the only player who made the HOF.
Do Armamis Ramirez & Derrek Lee (preferably together) love the content dude!
first youtube video I'll watch at my new setup!
Thinking of Ian Kinsler reminded me of Michael Young. A great player that could play anywhere in the infield and could get on base. Micheal Young would be an interesting case with over 2,000 hits.
Great stuff
thank you
You should do a video on the HOF case of my favorite player Carlos Delgado
Felix Hernandez, Yadier Molina, Adam Wainwright, Chris Sale and Torii Hunter.
Torii!!! A fan favorite gotta love Hunter. King Felix is awesome too
Thurman Munson, Bobby Grich, Ken Boyer, Dick Allen, Sal Bando, Scott Rolen. Not saying all these guys are deserving, but I would love to see you analyze their careers
"Utley was among the best infielders in the league." He was one of the best players in the game. Undoubtedly the greatest second baseman of his generation.
Brandon Phillips.
@@ethanweeter2732Bro said Brandon Phillips 😭
As someone who lives 10 miles outside the city if Philadelphia im kinda sad the first picture of Utley used was in a Dodgers uniform. Im not a Phillies fan either just Utley was the man around here.
Thurmond Munson has great stats but sadly died in a plane crash. If u could look into his case that would be amazing
Only played 10 years. Robinson played 10 years and had better numbers, plus a bigger impact on the history of the game, and the fact segregation kept him out during some of his prime years.
I also think that Lance Berkman might be a very interesting case to examine as well.
A video of Grady Sizemore would be dope
Would be cool to see one on Julion Franco or Jamie Moyer. I know they didn't get in, but a retrospect look would be interesting
Can you do a video on Bernie Williams HOF case?
THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE!! Bernie was my favorite Yankee.
Dale Murphy is a player that was awesome and definitely should have made the HOF
Love how everyone forgets about Al Oliver. I am from a town near Portsmouth, Ohio and the fact he is not in Cooperstown makes that building a joke.
Great video, do fred mcgriff!
Doby debuted late due to baseball's color line (he was the first black player in the AL) and Campanella was an excellent offensive and defensive catcher made quadriplegic in an accident. Voters more willing to overlook lower career numbers if injury or misfortune truncated a player's time. (Sandy Koufax is a pitching example.)
While I understand it's not relevant for this video, Michael Young is a similar hitter I think is very deserving of HOF consideration.
How do you not have more subs
Hey can we talk about Jon Lester and his HOF case ?
Please do Bobby Grich!
Make the case for Scottie Rolen please!
Jim Rome said it best. "If you have to ask if a player is a HOF'er, they aren't."
Deep dive into Yadi?
Jimmy Rollins
Jim Edmonds not being a HOFer disgusts me more than any other snub
Do Buster Posey. He has every accolade a HOF needs. MVP, Silver Slugger, ROY, Batting title, Gold Glove and 3 rings. But he’s obviously passed his prime and his counting stats are far from impressive. 1,380 hits. 140 homers. and 673 rbis. I think most people believe he should be in due to the previous accolades, especially the 3 rings. But he would set some records for lowest counting stats to make it in the HOF
Still waiting for the Jimmy Rollins HOF video!
I think the most interesting names on that list of notable candidates with under 2k hits are Shoeless Joe Jackson-who would’ve been a no doubter for the Hall if not for the Black Sox Scandal, Gil Hodges who in my opinion is one of the worst snubs-particularly as a manager and Thurman Munson who likely would have been in had he lived longer
I believe the 2000 rule should be held high because at some point we have to still hold standards for the hall of fame
do david wright please!!!!
Darrell Evans needs to be in the Hall of Fame. Home runs and walks should put him over the top.
Look at the teams at 10:33 ... holy crap the NL east was loaded that year
HERE FROM THE FUTURE
Gil Hodges and Tony Oliva have been elected to the Hall. Hodges retired in 1963, and Oliva in 1976. Dick Allen (1977) is on track to follow suit. It looks like the Rule of 2000 is slowly being broken. (Also, the chart is wrong; Minnie Minoso, now also in the Hall, had 2110 hits)
There are extenuating circumstances with Shoeless Joe-who only played about 10 years, but was one of the best hitters in history; and Thurmon Munson who died in a plane crash. I think it's important to identify who are the key players at the elite level. They clearly deserve it, and you don't have to take a deep dive into the numbers.
I miss watching Kinsler rake on the tigers :(
If Chase didn’t get hit so much he would have more hits and he would be in the hall of fame.
As a texas fan I love ain Kinsler
Carlos Delgado, Fred Mcgriff and John Olerud
You should do Edwin Encarnacion
Please do Dale Murphy. He should be in.
Utley is definitely HOF worthy
Please do Yadier Molina For all the Cards fans
You should do a video on Adrian Beltre
KR Nerf Adrian is and should be a first ballot hall of famer. No doubt about it.
Worth noting that several of them (Jackie, Larry Doby) were held below 2000 by delayed integration of the game
Do jimmy rollins
Please do Minnie minoso
I think that Jim Edmonds, which ended shy to the 2,000 hits mark. I think he should've received serious consideration.
What about Nick Markakis hof chances?
Hideki Matsui & Bernie Williams
This is a foolish baseball in grow, good video
Love me a good fangraphs chart source from bbref.
What about looking at Michael Young
I've always heard Intergration as the cutoff
Mayers WAR stats are mainly from the catcher position. Utley and Pujols were not. What would Mauers WAR be if you eliminated wild pitches from the pitcher that allowed a run.
Chase was always overshadowed by the flashier power of Ryan Howard and the personality of Jimmy Rollins, both of whom won mvps. Honestly now that its all said and done the only one I think MIGHT be undeserving overall is Ryan Howard after he fell off a cliff. Jimmy and Chase were at least stable towards they tail ends of their careers, if oft injured and unable to carry the phils like they used to. These 3 were honestly the most dangerous from 2000 to 2010, and I'm saying this all as a Braves fan who had to watch them pummel our asses. While this was a little tangential, Chase should get into the hall.
Ian Kinsler is not a hall of famer. Plain and simple.
Neither is Utley. Name one stat that screams Hall Of Famer? I’ll wait.
@@petergriffin8745 none of the traditional counting stats. Utley is going to be the ultimate case for how hall of fame voters view advanced metrics. Those will tell you that he was an elite defender, an elite base runner, and a great hitter. The fact that he put up 65 career WAR while really only being great for like 7 years before injuries took their toll tells you how great he was. During those 7 years he was one of the greatest 2nd baseman of all time. I think it would be a sham if he doesn't end up in Cooperstown one day.
Only if chase stayed healthy. Fire as always.
thanks man
I long ago assumed what the hall of fame is now and original purpose hase changed.Now it's the hall of stats.
What about Jim Edmonds