Joey Votto - The Hall of Fame Case
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 вер 2020
- Hey everyone!
Since this channel has gotten bigger, a lot more people have given suggestions on who I should cover in this series. As you may have seen, I put out a poll on who I should cover next. The clear winner was Joey Votto. While Votto is probably a few years away from retiring and won't be eligible for the hall of fame until the end of the decade, he has one of the more interesting cases because of how unique he is. Should Joey Votto make the hall of fame?
Follow me on Twitter: / sportstorm23
All sources (Articles/Media): pastebin.com/YSertkFU
Music:
1. • *Copyrighted* Music | ...
2. • Yuzzy - Debunking | J...
3. • Radio - Upbeat Hip Hop...
Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. - Спорт
Another awesome vid!
Hiya MLB
Can we get him in the “ HALL OF FAME
Wow the MLB itself only got 19 likes that is funny
19 So HOF.
🐐 Status
@@staciemohler4624 I'm hoping someone's reply gets more likes than theirs. 🤣🤣🤣
He’s essentially sealed his Hall case over the last 5 weeks. And it was remarkable to witness as a baseball fan.
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
@@KEALOHA-ju4jmand your just gonna forget about what he did from 2007-2018?
@@KEALOHA-ju4jm I don't think that's a metric people use for HOF induction, but Jim Thome and Reggie Jackson to start, and they did it far more than Votto. Even Mickey Mantle did it once, and at a younger age than Votto. Also he was in his age 37 season when he got his 2000th hit. And the career avg and strikeout/hits were only due to his declining years and partly while playing injured or coming back from injury. You're not debating in good faith and relying on hyperbole. Cubs fan? lol
@@KEALOHA-ju4jmbelieve it or not, but when people get old they get worse at sports
As a Cards fan, I get to watch Votto quite a bit. He’s definitely HOF worthy. Great eye for the ball and will take his walks instead of chasing and racking up K’s. Also has a great glove
Fine chivalry there.....Could I be so appreciative of a Buc ,Nat, Brave, Dodger, Met, or Marlin? No, the damn Fish!
I'm a reds fans and I almost exclusively watch the games we play against other central teams, vottos patience is his virtue he's a really steady leader and a excellent fielder, he's a HOFer easily he's gonna play 3 more years at this pace at least he's still doing so well
Our best team since I've been alive was when we had phillips, Jay Bruce, votto, drew stubbs some old pitchers a young cueto, young Chapman maybe in 2010 was they year but our division is the toughest in baseball theirs been several years where the reds have missed the playoffs with a great record just the brewers, pirates, cardinals all have a better record and the pirates get the wild card and we get nothing even tho in a different division we would be in the playoffs
Also a Redbird fan, I've loved watching Votto all these years. Really, it's a shame the he has only played for Cincinnati, almost seems like a waste of a great player.
Fr people forget that he was an excellent fielder
As a Reds Fan I should say I am still very very very bitter Joey didn’t get NL MVP in 2017, he was automatic that second half
I agree, he should have won it that year.
I would have voted Stanton for MVP but I wouldn’t have hated it if Votto won. I think we forget just how amazing of a hitter Stanton was that season though due to how he’s kinda underperformed as a Yankee.
NegroKetchum I think Votto edged him slightly out that year. Votto had the higher OPS, wRC+, wOBA. But I think voters ultimately saw the 59 homers from Stanton as being worthy of the vote.
RedsFan15 I’m a big stat head, trust me. But the fact remains that Stanton was less valuable than Stanton by a mere margin of .3 WAR. If you factor in consistency over the season and Marlins Park being a pitchers park, I see no reason as to not give the edge to Stanton. I mean advanced stats are cool and all but sometimes just asking how these two would fare in each other’s parks is good indication of their values as hitter. Stanton without juice could have very well hit 70. But hypotheticals don’t really matter.
NegroKetchum wRC+ is park adjusted
He's one of the most iconic players of his era. I don't see how anyone could consider him not a hall of famer.
he probably won't get in right away,iconic,not quite,HOF worthy,yeah!
@@t-squared6406 Iconic is a good thing....however, I'd say "era defining" sums it up better. Great production post-steroid era, with stats that back up what gets emphasized these days: high OBP with 200 hits a year or BA not mattering....
@@pullt Votto is a very good player,he could make the HOF,I would lean toward no at the moment,not quite enough production,got an MVP,could have 2 more All-Star games would help,that is why he is compelling,really for now you could argue either way.
@@t-squared6406 I tend to agree.
He'll be right on the line. Anyone claiming he's a shoo-in or obvious choice is equally as wrong as those claiming he's got zero shot or is completely undeserving....
He doesn't even have 2,000 hits yet and in this season and last his OBP is down by 70 points from his career average. He is still at least two years off from almost pulling even with Larry Walker, whose OBP was also over .400. Not making the bigs until 23 and becoming a fulltime player at 24 really fucks him over compared to someone like Adrian Beltre who made the bigs at 19 and was a fulltime player at 20.
The 2008 Cubs won 97 games that season and Soto was the starting catcher so that’s probably why he received wayyy more ROY votes than Votto despite similar numbers
Deservedly so, IMO. I love Votto, but there is a big difference between a catcher putting up those numbers, and a first baseman.
He’s right on the line, but if he was a Yankee or a Red Sox player.....he’d be a lock.
Probably
He's a first ballot lock
@@diddlez2 no way a lock....is borderline
@@pullt absolute lock
@@legochickenguy4938 Larkin made it with 2300 hits....no way Jeter doesn't get in on the Reds lol
Votto is a HOF. His numbers deserve it.
Close, but I agree. It's the OBP and WAR7 that do it for me.
He's a Hall of Fame-er! You just know it before the rest !
@Mark Schultz things have changed my guy. Votto has a good chance
@Mark Schultz Votto has much better numbers than Oliver. You conveniently left out that Votto has a much higher on base percentage, 100 more home runs, and an NL MVP (which is better than a batting title).
@Mark Schultz My point was that Oliver isn't deserving. Even Votto is borderline.
He’s honestly having a good season this year maybe that helps his case
Bottom line: He's a HOFer only if the HOF voters are impressed by OBP as much as the advocates of the new metrics are convinced of its fundamental importance.
Sabermetricians tells us that there's no single more important offensive stat than OBP.
The only plausible exception is WAR, which most people (including yours truly) don't particularly understand
José Hunter's EW&F Remixes agree what exactly is WAR or even what does it stand for?
@@Speedster___ Wins Above Replacement
There's a complicated formula that you can't just look at and say, "Oh, that makes sense".
In contrast, OBP is precisely and literally (the rate at which you are) not making an out.
And your team only gets 27 of them per game, and when you've used up those 27 outs, it's all over, so you must treat those 27 as precious.
So it's really easy to see why OBP is important.
As for WAR, you can google it, but it's not likely to make tremendous sense. Also, there are at least two major ways of computing it:
bWAR
fWAR
@@Speedster___ "Wins Above Replacement"
Is a measure that measures an approximate value of a player's production compared to the production a "replacement player" would provide. The replacement player is basically a fringe player, a guy who can be pulled from AAA for nominal cost.
AAA player/scrub ~ 0 WAR
Solid Starter ~ 2 WAR
AllStar ~ 4-5 WAR
Superstar ~ 6 WAR
MVP ~ 7+ WAR
Monster seasons like 01 Bonds, 23 Ruth, 85 Doc, 00 Pedro, 72 Carlton or 68 Gibson or 75 Morgan are 11 or 12 WAR
pullt ah thanks that really helped I’m more football then base ball :-)
@@Speedster___ in football terms, replacement player is basically a practice squad guy, 8th O-Line, 7th DB, 6th WR, etc, etc....someone who is on the 53-man roster who isn't on the game day 46 dressed....
Man, saying "Votto is at the end of his peak" has not aged well in the year 2021...
Came here to say this
im not even a votto fan, but this man absolutely deserves to be in the hall of fame. his advanced metrics are freakin insane
i hope he gets in
He absolutely belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Just look at career OPS and career being 53% better than the average hitter. Those are incredible statistics
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
Votto is definitely a HOF’er though
Yep. If he isn't then the HOF is dumb.
Joey Votto hit 28 home runs this year and passed 2000 hits. It's his best season in several years. He now has 323 home runs and will likely play a few more seasons. Let's say he plays 2 more seasons and hits 15 home runs and gets 120 hits a season. That puts him at 2250 hits with 353 home runs. He also has 2.2 WAR. Let's say he gets up to 2.5 by the end of the season. That's 63.4 bWar. If he can muster 3.5 bWar over 2 seasons he's at 67. No way he's not in the Hall with these numbers.
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
Second ballot, 79%
Fair enough
I can see this happening
Need an updated video on votto after this season. Joey Votto still bangs
He just hit 8 Homers in 9 games no and broke his old record. He also tied a mlb record and joined the company of 8 other players. HOF bound. He'll probably hit 35 HR this season too and make the playoffs. He has 21 right now on August 4th.
Votto’s first AB since you made this was a 2 run moon shot
Very well done. I think he gets in after several years of being on the ballot, and I say that as a Reds fan.
Votto: AB: 6871 H: 2058 HR: 336 BA: .300 OBP: .414 MVP 2010 AS 6 time OPS+ 147
Walker AB: 6907 H: 2160 HR:383 BA: .313 OBP:.400 MVP 1997. AS 5 time OPS+ 141
both are Canadian and were criminally underrated in their prime I know Walker has way more GG and SS than Votto’s but with a lower career OPS+ despite similar OBP. I’d say Larry should have made it at as a batsman alone, therefore so should Votto.
At the time this video was published, I think your case was perfectly valid and I agree that there is a strong case for him to be in the HOF, though maybe not first ballot. After hitting home runs in 7 straight games, and if his production continues apace throughout this 2021 season and the Reds make the post--season, then he should be in the HOF for sure.
Then you look at all the aspects of Votto outside of the statistics. People will argue to what extent these should factor in, but for Votto, I think you have to agree he's been a positive force in terms of the culture of the game and how he's carried himself as a career Cincinnati Red. His interactions with fans. His antics. How hard he works, while simultaneously having a huge amount of fun and more reverence to the history of baseball than most players I can think of. Votto is a treasure on many levels.
He's either be voted in or he won't. My fear, and this makes me sound like an old man (I'm 35), is that in our current society that is so obsessed with achievement and metrics and quantifying everything, people like Joey Votto get overlooked. I know baseball fans are a different breed and value history, integrity and strength of character as much or more than fans of other sports, but the way things are going with sports, people's attention spans keep shrinking and everyone is worried isn't sexy or flashy enough.
Votto is the everyman's player, sort of like "Cespedes for the rest of us". He's as big a fan of baseball as anyone and has a big heart. Long live Joey Votto!
His case has definitely risen quite a bit just from this past season. As a Reds fan, I'm glad that this guy has been with us throughout his whole career. With the 2021 season over, if he plays 1-2 more seasons at an average or respectable level, I think he will become a lock
Great work, awesome video and a great case for Votto's HOF candidacy.
In fact his numbers are eerily similar to Walker’s over a similar time frame. And he’s Canadian. Holy shit he is Larry Walker!!?! Average, AB, Career HR and Hits. It’s scary. What’s even scarier is it seems his recent emphasis on HR was an adjustment made with Cooperstown in mind. He’s earned it, but like Walker I think it’s gonna take a grass roots movement by the fans to get him in. I hope I’m wrong.
Think he might have a late shot at getting in, sort of like Larry Walker. Very solid player and a great career thus far, but the last couple of years will be really telling
I agree it will probably take awhile,the question is did he do it long enough,I believe he deserves it!
Keep it up. Love the content. Can’t wait to see you get 50k,100k, and so on!
Joey Votto at 39 a must.. Awesome job coming back and he is such a leader
Votto is definitely A HOF.
1 of thee best hitters of his time and he’s got a GG as well.
These videos are awesome! Thank you.
Hes having a monster 2021! Votto sure fire HOF!
Definitely a hall of famer, hopefully he can have a couple more pretty decent seasons to pad those counting stats
Look at what Joey is doing now folks….. he is certainly a HOF candidate in my eyes but I’m a Vinci native and lifelong refs fan, lol
People put WAAAYY too much stock in home run numbers. You have to look at a player’s career on a while, not compare them to a persons position average.
Vottos attitude and the way he interacts with children helps him too.
Maybe you should update this video because Votto is on FIRE and has been for the last month or so. I agree with you my friend.
2021 Votto: Hold my beer
Great video. I don't think you can hold the fact that he was a first basemen against him. If Cinci had another traditional 1B power hitter on their roster, Votto would have pretty easily slid to 3B or even LF/RF. He played the position that was the best fit for the franchise.
He was definitely going to be a HOF before this year, now he might be a first ballot
And now he’s one of the best power hitters on the league this year. This season HAS to just put HOF on lock.
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
I'll admit I'm biased, Joey Votto is my favorite current baseball player and is tied with Justin Morneau for my all time favorite baseball player, and I do believe he will be a hall of famer
Love the vids! Keep it up
Got his autograph after a Louisville Bats game last night. Waited outside and out he walked. Unreal player and person!
Oh man, you need to do a 2021 update. He's killing it!
Keep it up! Would you consider doing a video on the KC outfield?
God I wish
As a Reds fan I wish Pete and I really hope Joey is in the hall
“If (Votto) was ranked below someone, that someone would be Josh Hamilton, who just had an insane 2010 season.”
Indeed. Just imagine how good his first team would’ve been had they not traded him. That team being the Cincinnati Reds.
Also my Cubs actually took him and then just sorta gave him to the Reds for like.....some rule 5 draft trade or some random shit like that......which maybe was good cause he mighta slowed down the tanking efforts back then😂
With all the sabermetric stats out there I think OBP is still the most important one. Great video!
Anyone else here after Votto won Player of the Month for July 2021? If there were ever any doubts about his Hall of Fame case, I think this year he put those doubts to bed.
Idk what you do about video recommendations. But to follow up your roller coaster Mets video, I would like to see one on the 2012 A’s another roller coaster team and one of my favorites of all time
Torii Hunter. His numbers are much better then I realized. Nearly 2500 hits, 350 hrs and a career .280 hitter. 9 gold gloves as well.
Hey SportStorm! Love the channel! I think Yadi would be an interesting player to do!
Yadi is definitely A HOF. As well as is Votto.
Both 2 of Thee Best from their time.
Yet another banger SportsStorm! Votto has always been a little underrated in his career. I don't think casual fans respect OBP as much as BA and HR. Votto is a model of consistency as well. In those 8 years you used as his prime he put up similar numbers year in and year out. I think he has a similar HOF chance to Scott Rolen
Awesome video ⚾️⚾️
I don’t know if you can but I think you should do a video on Devin Williams and his change up. That’s something I would be very interested in
Votto is a legend man
Absolute
He should be a hall of famer
Seriously the comparison between him and Walker is downright freaking me out, seriously look at thier BBR pages?!? The top line is spooky. Don’t worry I’ll do it for you
Votto: AB: 6871 H: 2058 HR: 336 BA: .300
Walker AB: 6907 H: 2160 HR:383 BA: .313
Definitely going to the hall at some point
This year puts it to rest, he’s a HOF inductee no question
In an era of 100mph fastballs and pitcher dominant teams a walk really is as good as a hit . Good eyes . And now hes lifted the arc of his swing for Homeruns.
He needed a couple more seasons with 30+ HRs, 90+ RBI, .300+ BA to be a lock but the way he has regressed, I’m not sure he will ever get in. I was a huge fan of the early Joey Votto. Now he just disappoints me. And I have Votto19 vanity plates on my motorhome.
votto is a first ballot hall of famer, a possible 2021 nl mvp and the best canadian to ever play baseball in the MLB
haha I watched this video last week and recently Joey Votto has been mashing baseballs left and right with a couple 2 HR games-- he may not be who he once was but seeing old men like him crush it is so amazing.
Joseph Daniel Votto’s not a first ballot Hall of Famer, but a future Hall of Famer nonetheless. After all, he is Canada’s greatest gift to the world so I think he’s deserving. #GoReds #CanadianJesus
need an updated video ! he was jesus in a batters box once again in 2021
I would LOVE a Nelson Cruz HOF consideration video, I think he definitely has a case, but it’s a nuanced career that has had its ups and downs....
I'm not sure if he has that superstar recognition to get first ballot. But his numbers deserve a spot for sure.
Votto is in the hall, because he played his whole career for one team. He deserves to be in, but he would have a case that might not have worked for voters if he didn't have the iconic one club player thing too (Scott Rolen has a very similar case and will struggle to get in because he bounced around so many teams)
His 8 game tear just now is helping solidify his HOF spot
“Has confirmed the suspicion that votto is st the end of his peak”
2021 Votto: Hold my beer
I’m just 129 games 36 home runs, 99 RBI, 77 walks .375 OBP, .563 SLG and .938 OPS (just a tick better than his career mark) and a 136 OPS+
Plenty of gas left in Joey V
Definitely need an update after what votto has been doing this year..
LETS GOOO NEW SPORTSTORMMM
Roy Oswalt or Johan Santana discussion please. Plus a discussion on the future of evaluating pitchers.
He's having a really good 2021.
I really like the background music in your videos when your talking. How do you edit that into your videos
^
I don’t know
You just add it during the editing
When you edit, there is also an audio track. Just download some music and find what sounds good to you :)
SportStorm ok thank you so much. Love your videos
Honestly, I don't think we'll ever have a player like Joey Votto again; or at least not for a very long time. Pitch velo and emphasis on spinrates has skyrocketed to the point where strikeouts are almost inevitable, and while there are some active players who have respectable OBPs, they aren't anywhere close to Votto's numbers due to striking out a lot more often.
He’s been on fire lately, I think if he keeps up this season he will be in HOF
With his 2021 renaissance, I'm pretty confident he will get in somewhere in his 10 years on the ballot, even if things fall apart a little bit
He is having one of his best years ever this year
Might need an update! Votto is 🔥 this year! 2021 🤯
VOTTO STILL BANGS
Votto's swing sweet.
He needs to be a 1st ballot HOF
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
Ted Williams was a big inspiration for his approach to the game and it shows.
baseball is different now. we know that slugging numbers and home runs arent everything and that on base percentage trumps pretty much all. votto deserves to be in the hall of fame
Votto has to enter in the HoF. He’s an On Base Machine!
Great video, do Mark Buehrle next
I loved this video. i do think votto deserves to be in the HOF. I would love to see a video on Molina. Being a cardinals fan i feel like its much harder to be objective in his contributions as a player
I’m a Reds fan who absolutely LOATHES Yadi Molina and I can tell you right now that he deserves to be in the HOF. Maybe him and Joey will enter in the same class.
If he ends up at 400 career home runs he’s in the hall for sure. Well deserved as well.
SportStorm you need to make a 2nd video of this he has done a lot of the things you said in this video
Kenny Lofton should be in the HoF
And Larry Walker
Could you do a hall of fame case of David Wright?
Well done video. Votto has my HOF vote. ( For what that's really worth? )
if he picks it up in a big way next year, he seals the deal for sure
i honestly thought he was an obvious HOF inductee; i had no idea it was debatable.
Anddddddd he's back in 2021
His last few years could make the difference between 1st ballot and not making it at all.
If he goes four more years on his current trajectory: ~2,100 hits, ~330 HRs, 1,300 walks, WAR of ~60, and .290/.400/.500. He finishes his career with six mediocre or bad seasons and after the five year waiting period, the HOF has mostly forgotten about him. He could end up getting in towards the end of his eligibility or he could be left off.
If he rebounds and goes four more years based on his 2019 season: ~2,400 hits, ~350 HRs, 1,500 walks, WAR of ~66, and .300/.410/.510. He finishes his career off still declining... but age does that. At this point, his stats may not make him a 1st ballot HOFer, but there is no disputing that he belongs.
If he rebounds and goes for four more years based on his 2018 season: No disputing that he is 1st ballot.
Freddie Freeman is sneaking up to Hall caliber under the radar. Definitely on pace.
Video idea: You compare MVP winners to MVP runner ups. Or you could do the same with Cy youngs.
Joey is awesome. Just wish he could win the world series.
He’s still got it!