Hey Mike, Great video as always! Taking the fan hub out and installing it again without damage is a real challenge. I've done it 5 or 6 times now. I plan to make a tool and or jig to do this process but just haven't yet. As for tooling I do it with a brand new punch that fits the head of the rivet. I have a rivet tool for my air hammer. This was modified in a lathe to get the correct dome shape on the rivet stud located on the back of the fan. Run a file across the back of the fan hub to lay down any burrs. Then place the hub in the fan and rotate it around with good pressure to make sure the two mate perfectly. From here take 3 allen head taper head bolts wit nuts and snug the fan hub into the housing. This will hold the two together while riveting back together. Stand the punch vertical in a vise and clamp in place using the jaws. Grab a helper and hand them a pair of leather gloves. My wife has assited many times. The helpers job is to hold the fan perfectly still and perpendicular to the punch. This is the critical part. Any movement will distort the rivet head or worse, scratch the freshly plated fan hub. I use a very soft hitting air hammer that has incredible trigger control. One to two hits at a time. Then check fan position and correct as needed. Keep going unto the rivet stud is mushroomed over and tight. Typically the fan rings like a bell once the rivet is tight. This is a bit tricky to hear at first but you'll get the hang of it. Take your time and work all 6 rivets in perfectly. I've had to on several occasioins remove rivets that started to bend over. I've also sourced the exact size rivet the fan was orgianlly built with. This took some research and buying a massive quantity of rivets. I'd be happy to discuss this with you if you are willing to share your email address publically. I'll email you my contact information. Jay
Hello Jason Sounds like you are quite experienced working on Porsche impellers. Ive gone through various scenarios in my mind as to how to accomplish the task without any mishaps..Your method is one of them. I ruled out setting by hand with an assistant as a choice due to too many variables moving around. Will be interesting to see what I end up with but fairly sure they will be slowly and gently pressed in location with a press. Porsche would have had a jig and a press to fit the impeller and male /female flat/round heads to secure them. I have a source for additional rivets but if you would like to share a correct fitting rivet size with us Im sure the viewers would very much appreciate! Cheers!
@@MikesRestorations hey Mike. I’m more experienced in classic Porsche repair then restoration. Just in the last few years have I started restoring finishes of engines, transmissions and suspension parts. Not necessarily concours but a really nice facelift. A local guru here on the east coast has guided me through some of that aspect. He’s also the one who shared his method with the fan. I absolutely agree the fan was done in a machine and while I don’t have time to invest currently into this, I’m in hopes to have a team of people around me that can assist with this. I’m out of the shop for a couple days off. When I return I’ll see if I can get the river information to you. Would still love to connect with you. Jay
I wonder if the plastic cone tools used for balancing lawn mower blades might help you understand if the fan needs balancing at all. I have one of these tools and they are quite friction free.
Hello Joe Fantastic idea! I have been mulling around with a cone and spindle concept for weeks now and haven't been able to find a cone setup that fits the bill. I think your idea is the perfect solution so I have ordered a kit and will give it a try! Thanks for reaching out and helping solve the mystery!! Cheers!
Looks Great! Better than factory, im definitely going have to look into using Cerakote on my Porsche. I know this video was posted a while ago but I take it you figured out the rivet installation? When I was in the Air Force I did aircraft sheetmetal and to install countersink rivets we used a air hammer on the head side and a dolly(similar to a body dolly) on the shank side. Thanks for the very informative videos, I really liked the Zinc "How To"!
Hi Mike. I love the squeeze bottle technique. More excellent restoration work! Not a huge fan of any background music, through. But that's just me. Keep the videos coming.
Thanks Dan Going forward you might turn down the volume as music will play a larger role in videos going forward. The list is long for adding. Main reason is an attempt to wake up UA-cams algorithm. When we upload a video it immediately goes thru a processing for which it is analyzed for excitement level, rhythm to hold a viewers interest and on and on. Based on its analysis the video's destiny is pre determined before its ever released. Right down to the view count and who will see it. It's not organic or random at all. It's a lot of hard work when you are working against a machine. Also I struggle constantly with annoying background noises while making videos. Dogs barking planes flying over, cars racing up and down the street, wind, neighbors having a party in the street..its rough to say the least! This will help me mute it and take the pressure off. Sorry Dan!
I wonder if it could be ballanced the same way as rc helicopter rotor heads? Still loving the workmanship and attention to detail. I'm sure people would buy a video series of your work. Mat
Hello Mutley thank you for the vote of confidence=) I would settle for a UA-cam higher success rate with lots of likes and sharing as this promotes growth of the channel and drives advertising revenue. Im putting together a balancing method I think will be easy to do. Just need to figure out those rivets! Cheers!
I like the aesthetic finish of it. You put so much effort into every single part it’s impressive! Do you think it could be balanced like a wheel if ever it’s not perfectly stable?
Thanks jpski We will surely be able to check balance and correct if necessary.. first we need to be able to successfully rivet the hub in place .. Still working on it!=) Cheers!
Hey Mike. Another great video! I’ve learned a ton from your videos over the years and have referred a number of people to them; especially your videos on plating. I’m still on the rust repair stage of my first restoration project (can only work on the body in the warm summer months) so my knowledge of painting is mostly theoretical at this point. You mentioned the bumps being solvent pop from the first coat drying before the second coat was applied. I thought solvent pop was a result of the opposite scenario; where the second coat was applied too soon and the solvent hadn’t yet evaporated and became trapped by the second coat. Is my understanding incorrect or is this unique to cerakote? Also, what is unique about the gun they recommend? Also curious if you already know what your next project will be. Again, thanks for all of the terrific videos!
Hello PC thank you.. You are correct to some degree..solvent pop can form for many various reasons depending on the material being sprayed out to environment and conditions. The main issue with the C series blistering I have encountered is not from the base layer adhesion to the substrate . It is from the first coat skinning before the second coat can properly bond. Although the first layer is dry to some degree it has already formed a skin in which the second coat has difficulty chemically bonding too. The blistering is gas trying to escape from the first coat but cannot because the second coat has not bonded 100%. The wetter both coats can be and the longer the two coats take to dry out the better things will turn out. The first coat is just dry just enough to cause a melding issue and gassing out issue. Also pitting in the substrate adds to the problem with uneven terrain. If I scrape away the bubble carefully I see underneath it and the first coat is bonded well to the substrate. No bare metal showing..Very sensitive stuff! When dry ceroakote will not stick to cerakote.
Hello Marion Both of these C series are air cure and are simply marvelous results. Glacier series is wonderful to spray out and very forgiving. Cheers!
Looks great Mike! I hope you were able to balance that fan? Seems like you could balance it like you would with a lawn mower blade, and remove a bit on the inside somewhere or even maybe use tire weights? Yeah I love Cerekote look. They have used it on rims like BBS forever but motorcycles is where it really pops, the gunemtal black vs the bronze they have looks so good IMO
Hello Christopher You are right on target! I will indeed be balancing the fan by static bubble/cone. A lawn mower balancing cone can do the job nicely. I have not yet installed the rivets but will be doing so shortly. I haven't decided what will be the best approach depending the final rivet settings. Taking away weight or adding weight. With magnesium it's probably best to remove material as not much can be adheired to it. Cheers!
Thanks Samuel The rivets came with the pully hub as a sold set. www.aasesales.com although I'm not sure they are still offering the rivets with the hub at this point Cheers!
Hey Mike, I have several fans that I want to restore. I've removed a center and I agree, that they are balanced. You could always balance again after the fact. You can see the balance holes drilled out on the back of the fan at different depths. I bought a rivet kit with fan center from an eBay dealer, it seems ok quality. Like you, I bought a new fan from Porsche as well. Was really surprised at the finish, it didn't seem as rough as yours but still, pretty rough. I also bought a 4X rivet gun from aircraft spruce, the redbox 737. You are welcome to use it if you want to try that. I also know a local machinist who might be able to CNC a jig to hold the fan, the rivet gun would still be held manually. I was thinking like an adapter that bolts to a used rotor on one side and the other has the fan center bolt spacing. It would be heavy and you could clamp it to a work table. The cerekote finish looks amazing btw. I've polished one fan too, the finish is not for everyone, but when it ages here in NV it has a very nice look to it. I'm not sure it would last in a more humid area. Great work as always.
Was also going to say that some centers only fit one way in the fan, I think on the later cars, but don't quote me on that. that is what someone else told me, so balancing was already achieved. For the fan I took apart, I marked the orientation so I theoretically wouldn't have to rebalance. Moot point for a new center piece though. :-)
Hi Duane Seasons Greetings! Thanks for the tips and suggestions! I will keep in mind as I dive in deeper. I just ordered a tool that might make a simple project out of it but will have to wait and see as I will need to do some experimenting. A polished fan sounds cool! They sure look good when down to bare metal. The hub is a patterned fit so balancing will be the final tuneup. I think it won't be too difficult to balance as I have some ideas that should work for a static test and adjustment. Will reach out for sure if I'm in over my head! Cheers!
@@colbysmith1398 I use the Caswell system, I do have a few videos covering the process. You can access them thru the channel play lists under electroplating
Fantastic video Mike. Why not make your life easier and use bolts on the fan hub, there should be a myriad of choices and with the correct thread locker they should be fine. Eg two piece brake rotors that get extremely hot most usually have bolts, not rivets. I would suspect you'll need a big industrial tool for these very large rivets thats why I'm suggesting bolts. Or send it to someone who has such a tool but you said you don't want that...
Hello Gplus Excellent suggestion for an alternative..I have seen this done on restored impellers and is a good simple way to accomplish . Nothing in my life is easy though.. the whole point to the restoration and all its various phases would be to properly restore everything. A quick fix or cutting corners won't be optional for the project. The long road and the hard way always seems to be my destiny. We'll get it sorted out and will bring it to our audience. Mailing is out because of the irreplaceable value at this point... What ever it takes I'm in=) Cheers!
Seems like they are someone who makes air hammer attachments for these rivets, I would probably use nuts and bolts , then hammer the bolt so the nuts can't come off, but that's me,
Hello James Yes there is a wide variety of ways to round over the rivets.. Im currently running down a tool that might made simple work of it but its a test and see=) Will keep you posted! Cheers!
A machine shop should be able to re-balance your fan. Or you could do it yourself. You'd need to put the fan on a shaft(which could just be wooden dowel or whatever you can get to fit snugly) you suspend from two parallel flat surfaces. The heave point(if there is one) will cause it to roll to where the heavy point is pointing down. You then carefully relieve a little material from that point. When it doesn't roll down anymore you should be good....All the same I'd bet if checked it you'll find the fan is still perfectly balanced cuz it was most likely the aluminum casting that caused the part to need balancing. Not so much the center section or mating the 2 pieces.
cant wait to see how the rivets are done and balancing the fan. great job!!!!!
Thanks Eric, we're getting it worked out and also many viewer thoughts on the process!
Nicest looking fan I've ever seen! You're right, it's really going to pop when you open the engine lid.
Hello Chris Seasons greetings! Thank you Im thrilled with the outcome
Hey Mike, Great video as always! Taking the fan hub out and installing it again without damage is a real challenge. I've done it 5 or 6 times now. I plan to make a tool and or jig to do this process but just haven't yet. As for tooling I do it with a brand new punch that fits the head of the rivet. I have a rivet tool for my air hammer. This was modified in a lathe to get the correct dome shape on the rivet stud located on the back of the fan. Run a file across the back of the fan hub to lay down any burrs. Then place the hub in the fan and rotate it around with good pressure to make sure the two mate perfectly. From here take 3 allen head taper head bolts wit nuts and snug the fan hub into the housing. This will hold the two together while riveting back together. Stand the punch vertical in a vise and clamp in place using the jaws. Grab a helper and hand them a pair of leather gloves. My wife has assited many times. The helpers job is to hold the fan perfectly still and perpendicular to the punch. This is the critical part. Any movement will distort the rivet head or worse, scratch the freshly plated fan hub. I use a very soft hitting air hammer that has incredible trigger control. One to two hits at a time. Then check fan position and correct as needed. Keep going unto the rivet stud is mushroomed over and tight. Typically the fan rings like a bell once the rivet is tight. This is a bit tricky to hear at first but you'll get the hang of it. Take your time and work all 6 rivets in perfectly. I've had to on several occasioins remove rivets that started to bend over. I've also sourced the exact size rivet the fan was orgianlly built with. This took some research and buying a massive quantity of rivets. I'd be happy to discuss this with you if you are willing to share your email address publically. I'll email you my contact information.
Jay
Hello Jason
Sounds like you are quite experienced working on Porsche impellers. Ive gone through various scenarios in my mind as to how to accomplish the task without any mishaps..Your method is one of them.
I ruled out setting by hand with an assistant as a choice due to too many variables moving around.
Will be interesting to see what I end up with but fairly sure they will be slowly and gently pressed in location with a press.
Porsche would have had a jig and a press to fit the impeller and male /female flat/round heads to secure them. I have a source for additional rivets but if you would like to share a correct fitting rivet size with us Im sure the viewers would very much appreciate!
Cheers!
@@MikesRestorations hey Mike. I’m more experienced in classic Porsche repair then restoration. Just in the last few years have I started restoring finishes of engines, transmissions and suspension parts. Not necessarily concours but a really nice facelift. A local guru here on the east coast has guided me through some of that aspect. He’s also the one who shared his method with the fan. I absolutely agree the fan was done in a machine and while I don’t have time to invest currently into this, I’m in hopes to have a team of people around me that can assist with this. I’m out of the shop for a couple days off. When I return I’ll see if I can get the river information to you. Would still love to connect with you.
Jay
Lovely finish - thx for sharing Mike & Happy Holidays when they arrive! :)
Thanks Erik and Season's Greeting to you too
Cheers!
I wonder if the plastic cone tools used for balancing lawn mower blades might help you understand if the fan needs balancing at all. I have one of these tools and they are quite friction free.
Hello Joe
Fantastic idea! I have been mulling around with a cone and spindle concept for weeks now and haven't been able to find a cone setup that fits the bill.
I think your idea is the perfect solution so I have ordered a kit and will give it a try!
Thanks for reaching out and helping solve the mystery!!
Cheers!
Great stuff Mike
Thanks Christopher!
Looks Great! Better than factory, im definitely going have to look into using Cerakote on my Porsche. I know this video was posted a while ago but I take it you figured out the rivet installation? When I was in the Air Force I did aircraft sheetmetal and to install countersink rivets we used a air hammer on the head side and a dolly(similar to a body dolly) on the shank side. Thanks for the very informative videos, I really liked the Zinc "How To"!
Thanks Pat
Im glad the videos are helpful
Wishing you all the best in your restoration work
Cheers!
Top comme d’habitude bravo 👍👍👍👍
Thanks jean-philippe!
Hi Mike. I love the squeeze bottle technique. More excellent restoration work! Not a huge fan of any background music, through. But that's just me. Keep the videos coming.
Thanks Dan
Going forward you might turn down the volume as music will play a larger role in videos going forward.
The list is long for adding.
Main reason is an attempt to wake up UA-cams algorithm. When we upload a video it immediately goes thru a processing for which it is analyzed for excitement level, rhythm to hold a viewers interest and on and on. Based on its analysis the video's destiny is pre determined before its ever released. Right down to the view count and who will see it. It's not organic or random at all.
It's a lot of hard work when you are working against a machine.
Also I struggle constantly with annoying background noises while making videos. Dogs barking
planes flying over, cars racing up and down the street, wind, neighbors having a party in the street..its rough to say the least! This will help me mute it and take the pressure off.
Sorry Dan!
It looks incredible Mike. That's going to be a pretty delicate riveting process, I hope it goes well 🤞
Thanks Matthew will get it figured out!
@@MikesRestorationsI know you will. I would’ve loved to see your face when it was suggested that you left it semi-restored 😂👍🏻
Great look and feel
Will probably make my 3.2 turbine with this one
Thanks Steph..its a great option for the impellers
Cheers!
I wonder if it could be ballanced the same way as rc helicopter rotor heads? Still loving the workmanship and attention to detail. I'm sure people would buy a video series of your work. Mat
Hello Mutley thank you for the vote of confidence=) I would settle for a UA-cam higher success rate with lots of likes and sharing as this promotes growth of the channel and drives advertising revenue.
Im putting together a balancing method I think will be easy to do.
Just need to figure out those rivets!
Cheers!
I like the aesthetic finish of it. You put so much effort into every single part it’s impressive! Do you think it could be balanced like a wheel if ever it’s not perfectly stable?
Thanks jpski
We will surely be able to check balance and correct if necessary.. first we need to be able to successfully rivet the hub in place ..
Still working on it!=)
Cheers!
Hey Mike. Another great video! I’ve learned a ton from your videos over the years and have referred a number of people to them; especially your videos on plating. I’m still on the rust repair stage of my first restoration project (can only work on the body in the warm summer months) so my knowledge of painting is mostly theoretical at this point. You mentioned the bumps being solvent pop from the first coat drying before the second coat was applied. I thought solvent pop was a result of the opposite scenario; where the second coat was applied too soon and the solvent hadn’t yet evaporated and became trapped by the second coat. Is my understanding incorrect or is this unique to cerakote? Also, what is unique about the gun they recommend? Also curious if you already know what your next project will be. Again, thanks for all of the terrific videos!
Hello PC thank you..
You are correct to some degree..solvent pop can form for many various reasons depending on the material being sprayed out to environment and conditions. The main issue with the C series blistering I have encountered is not from the base layer adhesion to the substrate .
It is from the first coat skinning before the second coat can properly bond.
Although the first layer is dry to some degree it has already formed a skin in which the second coat has difficulty chemically bonding too.
The blistering is gas trying to escape from the first coat but cannot because the second coat has not bonded 100%. The wetter both coats can be and the longer the two coats take to dry out the better things will turn out. The first coat is just dry just enough to cause a melding issue and gassing out issue.
Also pitting in the substrate adds to the problem with uneven terrain.
If I scrape away the bubble carefully I see underneath it and the first coat is bonded well to the substrate.
No bare metal showing..Very sensitive stuff!
When dry ceroakote will not stick to cerakote.
Cool Mike
Thanks Resgate!
Great video Mike, Does the Cerakote C 7900 need to be heat treated to cure.? Or is it just simply air dried like paint?
Hello Marion
Both of these C series are air cure and are simply marvelous results.
Glacier series is wonderful to spray out and very forgiving.
Cheers!
My Dow #7 on my 82’ fan was perfect until last Spring when my cover failed and moisture entered through the tea tray and ruined the finish.
Looks great Mike! I hope you were able to balance that fan? Seems like you could balance it like you would with a lawn mower blade, and remove a bit on the inside somewhere or even maybe use tire weights? Yeah I love Cerekote look. They have used it on rims like BBS forever but motorcycles is where it really pops, the gunemtal black vs the bronze they have looks so good IMO
Hello Christopher
You are right on target! I will indeed be balancing the fan by static bubble/cone. A lawn mower balancing cone can do the job nicely. I have not yet installed the rivets but will be doing so shortly. I haven't decided what will be the best approach depending the final rivet settings. Taking away weight or adding weight. With magnesium it's probably best to remove material as not much can be adheired to it.
Cheers!
Hey Mike!
Great video as always 😃
Where did you buy those rivets?
Thanks Samuel
The rivets came with the pully hub as a sold set. www.aasesales.com
although I'm not sure they are still offering the rivets with the hub at this point
Cheers!
Mike, have you found a solution for riveting the hub? I may have a resource.
Hello John
I haven't done the riveting as of yet but have some ideas as to the process.
If you have some ideas we would love to here them
Cheers!
@@MikesRestorations
How can you be reached outside of UA-cam ?
@@johnroidt9242 Hello John, You can email to mikemuskcabinets@gmail.com
Hey Mike, I have several fans that I want to restore. I've removed a center and I agree, that they are balanced. You could always balance again after the fact. You can see the balance holes drilled out on the back of the fan at different depths. I bought a rivet kit with fan center from an eBay dealer, it seems ok quality. Like you, I bought a new fan from Porsche as well. Was really surprised at the finish, it didn't seem as rough as yours but still, pretty rough. I also bought a 4X rivet gun from aircraft spruce, the redbox 737. You are welcome to use it if you want to try that. I also know a local machinist who might be able to CNC a jig to hold the fan, the rivet gun would still be held manually. I was thinking like an adapter that bolts to a used rotor on one side and the other has the fan center bolt spacing. It would be heavy and you could clamp it to a work table. The cerekote finish looks amazing btw. I've polished one fan too, the finish is not for everyone, but when it ages here in NV it has a very nice look to it. I'm not sure it would last in a more humid area. Great work as always.
Was also going to say that some centers only fit one way in the fan, I think on the later cars, but don't quote me on that. that is what someone else told me, so balancing was already achieved. For the fan I took apart, I marked the orientation so I theoretically wouldn't have to rebalance. Moot point for a new center piece though. :-)
Hi Duane Seasons Greetings!
Thanks for the tips and suggestions! I will keep in mind as I dive in deeper.
I just ordered a tool that might make a simple project out of it but will have to wait and see as I will need to do some experimenting.
A polished fan sounds cool! They sure look good when down to bare metal.
The hub is a patterned fit so balancing will be the final tuneup.
I think it won't be too difficult to balance as I have some ideas that should work for a static test and adjustment.
Will reach out for sure if I'm in over my head!
Cheers!
I believe the original impellers were chromated not painted. That said yours looks amazing!
Thanks Vikram!
Looks great. Did you do the yellow zinc plating?
Hello Coby Thanks
Yes the plating was done here
@@MikesRestorations looks excellent. Did you use a plating kit or something you came up with. Finish looks great.
@@colbysmith1398 I use the Caswell system, I do have a few videos covering the process. You can access them thru the channel play lists under electroplating
Fantastic video Mike. Why not make your life easier and use bolts on the fan hub, there should be a myriad of choices and with the correct thread locker they should be fine. Eg two piece brake rotors that get extremely hot most usually have bolts, not rivets. I would suspect you'll need a big industrial tool for these very large rivets thats why I'm suggesting bolts. Or send it to someone who has such a tool but you said you don't want that...
Hello Gplus
Excellent suggestion for an alternative..I have seen this done on restored impellers and is a good simple way to accomplish .
Nothing in my life is easy though.. the whole point to the restoration and all its various phases would be to properly restore everything.
A quick fix or cutting corners won't be optional for the project. The long road and the hard way always seems to be my destiny. We'll get it sorted out and will bring it to our audience.
Mailing is out because of the irreplaceable value at this point... What ever it takes I'm in=)
Cheers!
Seems like they are someone who makes air hammer attachments for these rivets, I would probably use nuts and bolts , then hammer the bolt so the nuts can't come off, but that's me,
Hello James
Yes there is a wide variety of ways to round over the rivets.. Im currently running down a tool that might made simple work of it but its a test and see=)
Will keep you posted!
Cheers!
Love your work, love your videos, but pleas turn down that intro chime on your levels. It’s absolutely way too loud. Again, huge fan of the channel.
Got it Lathrop! My audio is terrible...Going forward I will make this adjustment thank you for bringing to my attention
Cheers!
COOL
A machine shop should be able to re-balance your fan. Or you could do it yourself. You'd need to put the fan on a shaft(which could just be wooden dowel or whatever you can get to fit snugly) you suspend from two parallel flat surfaces. The heave point(if there is one) will cause it to roll to where the heavy point is pointing down. You then carefully relieve a little material from that point. When it doesn't roll down anymore you should be good....All the same I'd bet if checked it you'll find the fan is still perfectly balanced cuz it was most likely the aluminum casting that caused the part to need balancing. Not so much the center section or mating the 2 pieces.
Thanks THX
Excellent suggestions!
I got a solution , we use it to rebuild our air cooled fans