The "secret" MAD-T game asset system for Blender
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- In this video, I'll show you our MAD-T system for hard surface game assets and how to use it.
The Hard Surface Game Asset 2.0 program - www.blenderbro...
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A couple of comments from a lead artist in a game studio:
1.Automatic UV seam selection is pretty standard across many apps like Ryzom, Maya and Houdini.
2.Creating the highpoly and then lowpoly is pretty standard to the point that now we are creating more automatic workflows that can create LP or HP automatically. Take a look at Embarks asset processor for example.
3.We usually don't use triangulation, only when quads and ngons break baked normal maps. If you have a triangulated fbx you also need to keep the untriangulated model somewhere since you can't effectively modify the fbx you are importing into the engine, this adds more files to your pipeline that you have to keep track of. So most of the time just keep the untriangulated fbx in the source control and pipe it into the engine directly, engine will triangulate. If it looks good it works. But you can also keep all original .blender or .mb files on the server too if you need to change something. Speed of iteration and a simple pipeline are also important.
So is this workflow in Blender transferable to Maya, etc? They seemed to have raised the price of this to $118USD which is kind of expensive for a Blender course. But if this process works in other software then I guess that's a fair price.
@@GuestUser-jf8uj yes it is basically transferable
@@marko8095 Thank you sir!
So most of the time just keep the untriangulated fbx in the source control and pipe it into the engine directly, engine will triangulate. - Do you mind explaining a bit further? Out of all courses I've watched everybody recommends triangulating before export to avoid some undesired triangulation results as different DCCs use different algorithms when triangulating ?
@@Adalius_Ignis Depends on the final application. Offline renderers will render triangulate under the hood but will keep everything intact, no errors, sometimes they will add more geometry with subdivision to make everything smooth. So you don't have to worry about triangulation. But game engines when it comes to baking the normal map and rendering that normal map in the engine there if models are not triangulated in the same way the normal map will render differently. So if you pre-triangulate, before import into the engine and before baking the normal map then you avoid any problems. But think from the stand point of a large organization, you will be using source control like Perforce or Git on the server and synced across all machines. And fbx that goes into the engine will be also on the server. But once you triangulate its very hard to change the model, and changes in production are frequent. So you keep the original Blender file, and in it the un triangulate and triangulated versions of the model. But then you have ver 1, 2, 3, ... 11 and you have to figure out which untriangulated model corresponds to the triangulated one.... The point being even without pre triangulation you are not very likely to get error, only if you are going for very low poly count. Which is not necessary or desired on PS5 generation. So most of the time we do not pretriangulate, if we get a bake error you can see it and then just slice manual that one quad to triangles. Most crazy ngongs I split into quads or what ever seems logical. Like I says if it looks ok once you bake the normal map its ok even if not triangulateted. Which is why we check in engine early, even before textures are finished. In general the faster you can see your model in engine the faster you can spot what you want to change, the shorter iteration time the better the art. Both art and tech problems - first check in engine. How it looks like in Blender or Painter is not that important as how it looks in engine.
Select sharp edges --> Mark seam --> Clean up
That sounds pretty damn efficient. Definitely will give this a try!
I have the same exact workflow, and I came to it intuitively, definitely the best method for hard surface asset creations if you are going to do it in one software like Blender.
Also if you are using substance painter like me, you can export the triangulated model from the substance itself so it matches in case if you started with quad topology.
VERY COOL AND VERY EXPLAINED THANK
What a wonderful craftet approach to really shine through dogma and meaningless traditions. Well Done Josh truly awesome presentation. keep it up.
Does the ADDON Hard Ops / Boxcutter Ultimate Bundle Course include Hard Surface Game Asset 2.0? Or should I buy it?
Thanks. What comes first? Triangulation or uv unwrapping?
As a rule of thumb it is better to unwrap first because you have simpler mesh to work with but there might be some cases like concave surfaces that might change after triangulation. When you work with only clean topology there is less of risk this happening. When working with dirty topology you need some experience to know what can break your UVs. But it is not so big problem if you check the UV unwrap with test texture and iterate.
unwrap first then triangulate it will not change anything in uv maps
Thank you. 😁
@@kagan8579 It can change, there is multiple different ways to triangulate complex concave ngon. If you have only flat ngons then it is no problem but especially beginners don't always have such controlled geometry.
MAD -TREVOR
If all those wisenheimers were to believe, decimation should be a thing of the past. Because people keep proclaiming, that UE5 allegedly has no poly limits anymore and everything is generated with organic resolution. But surprise, turns out the amount of polygons remains a thing that requires processing power, so the poly count remains as relevant as ever. And intelligent decimation remains relevant.
Absolutely, but I also think that in the future everything will be quad based, and both high to low poly and ngons modelling are going to be declared obsolete. You can already use megascans in virtual reality, it was science fiction since a couple of years ago. My prediction is that in 4/5 years everything will be made in quads and the difference between a model with 10k or 500k tris will be irrelevant.
@@gabrielegagliardi3956 I am not the biggest expert on the planet, but I don't think it could be turning out like this.
Because as long as polygons are a thing in 3D and there isn't a whole new basic method of rendering 3D graphics, I don't think there could be a "quad-only" thing.
Because you just need to think about, what tris, quads and ngons are. They are all and will always be tris. All quads are tris. All ngons are tris. We just don't see it clearly.
Why do quads and ngons exist? They don't exist for the software to work, they solely exist to make editing work better for us. We can edit a lot better with quads than with tris or ngons. Quads have a structure, that is far better understandable. But in the end, the software always interprets all that as tris. It can't be any different, it's math. All 3D structures consist of coordinates. And for displaying those structures, all software just connects the dots with a straight line. 1 dot is only a dot, a point without mass. 2 dots are only a line, also not enough for showing 3D objects. Only with 3 dots, you get a face. Many faces create a 3D structure.
So when you have a tri, it consists of 3 dots which get connected by 3 straight lines, forming the face. The lines are straight by nature, so the face is flat. No matter where you move the dots (vertices), the lines and face always remain flat.
Now make a quad or an ngon, a face with 4 or more vertices - and now move those vertices around. While the outer lines remain straight, there is no way to keep the inner face of all those vertices flat. The face gets bent, the more vertices a face has, the more bends it has. It's this way in nature, and it can't be different in 3D. And to achieve this in software, there can't be anything more than tris, everything in 3D needs to be converted to tris. Even when software shows quads or ngons, that is also tris. You can easily check this by yourself. Open Blender, add a plain and move the vertices around. When bending the surface, you will recognize a line going through the middle of the quad face. Because internally, it needs to be cut into tris. Always. Quads exist, because it would be a nightmare to edit with actual tris.
And I know CAD software is a thing, which doesn't work with polygons. But that is just another technical method of creating 3D stuff, however it is a fundamentally different way of creating things and complex and organic structures are very tough to create with that, if at all. And then again, how would those graphics be used in real time? Hardly possible.
So yeah, one day there might be a whole new way of rendering graphics without polygons at all. But as long as polygons are used, everything is only tris anyway, but within programs, they are being shown as quads and ngons as well.
@@marcfuchs6938Well, you are stating the obvious, everything is read by modelling software and game engines as triangles. That said, modelling in quads or ngons has its relevance. Because you cannot animate or deform or texture paint objects with an highly irregular ngon topology, the fact that "everything is a triangle at the end of the day" is totally irrelevant when it comes to certain areas and purposes. A quad mesh bends perfectly 99% of the time, a mesh with ngons bends 100 % of the tine like shait, the fact that both meshes are read as triangles becomes irrelevant, one mesh works, the other doesn't work despite the fact that are made by triangles. My point is pretty simple, one day tris count will be irrelevant and having a 500.000 tris object for a static or deforming mesh won't matters. You will have only a quad mesh despite the purpose, if you wanna keep it static it will be static, if you wanna deform it, it will deform. Ngons are used only to reduce polycount, they don't serve any other purpose.
@@marcfuchs6938😢Well, you are stating the obvious, everything is read by modelling software and game engines as triangles. That said, modelling in quads or ngons has its relevance. Because you cannot animate or deform or texture paint objects with an highly irregular ngon topology, the fact that "everything is a triangle at the end of the day" is totally irrelevant when it comes to certain areas and purposes. A quad mesh bends perfectly 99% of the time, a mesh with ngons bends 100 % of the tine like shait, the fact that both meshes are read as triangles becomes irrelevant, one mesh works, the other doesn't work despite the fact that are made by triangles. My point is pretty simple, one day tris count will be irrelevant and having a 500.000 tris object for a static or deforming mesh won't matters. You will have only a quad mesh despite the purpose, if you wanna keep it static it will be static, if you wanna deform it, it will deform. Ngons are used only to reduce polycount, they don't serve any other purpose.
1:46 this scrolling effect make me 🤮
Or just use plasticity lmfao. Blender is the worst modeling software. Everything else is great about it.
Out of curiosity, I want to know why you said this about blender. Is there something you have observed with blender's modeling tools?
@@chimamathiasebuka3265 are you kidding me? I guess I’m so used to actually good modeling (aka nurbs) so seeing such disgusting, inefficient and tedious modeling tools makes me laugh.
Plasticity is the way to go.
@@Freezecold3697 got something to say? I’m curious on your opinion, from a professional modeler.
Absolute clown lmao.
@@untitled795 Name one freaking studio that uses plasticity for their professional pipeline at this moment! Your "Blender is the worst modeling software" is your way of coping with being terrible and having absolutely zero discipline in learning proper polygonal modeling skills. Just because you are bad at polygonal modeling doesn't make the software "WORST" and mind you there are far more superior tools for modeling in Blender (WITH ADDONS) compared to Maya, but of course, the industry still uses Maya for its professional/commercial projects! Blender is still used here and there but not as much, and you coming up with plasticity. This entire channel is about getting a job in the gaming industry. People who participate in this Channel and Ryu's channel are usually people who are looking for where to start get good at modeling and finally get hired for the job they are looking for in the game's industry. Stop coping. And git gud son.
I hate how conspiratortical they are. Just shitting on the blender community
I know that in Roblox N-Gons can give you problems such as the mesh being invisible. So I dont know if that part of the workthrough will work?
Yeah I came to the exact workflow you use, mark sharp/seem with UV packmaster is INSAAANE! Then you can retopo it with quad remesher even!
Concise, useful, focused
Hmmm, it's interesting how these guys almost feel like a hardsurface cult, I'm a 20+ years of exp and I've seen everything so far, and all I see in the blender community is ppl teaching/selling and even being hired doing everything the wrong way............