I know we've been quiet for a while, but part of that was entirely because I just dedicated close to a month of my life to absolutely tearing through Honkai Impact's story. I also had to recover from a bout of Bronchitis that you can still kind of hear in my voice in this recording. Oof. Nothing worse than losing your voice for more than a week when your voice is your most important asset!! Anyway, I hope you guys enjoy the video and we'll be back with more much sooner than last time ehehe. --Ganymede
Pretty sure the lack of control was due to Pardo sacrificing herself to open the route to the Will during Finality's last descent for Prometheus to take over and make sure that the Herrscher descents would be fixed in a certain sequence instead of being merely random, as well as the powers being the same as the previous era rather than some offshoots.
The new Sumeru location has one particular note within the Dahri ruind that ticks me off. It was left by a member of The Order of Sceptics, and what do you know? It says that "people shall rely on the power of evolution". Looks like they were either bringing honkai in, or did so unknowingly, which made them pay the price. The sign of Apaosha may just be honkai creeping in
little correction: dr. mei's hypothesis was not that it wanted to ascend and merge with humanity, but rather to push human life to a point where they could be considered it's equal, this is shown in the fact that the game represents stigmata and herrscher power as opposing forces rather than two parts of the honkai. the entity trying to get them to ascend is the finality and not the will of honkai. the finality's goal as stated by dr. mei is to embrace one of its kind, simply to know that it was not alone.
@@mon_moi Honestly very little is explained about either of those things. The God of Honkai got dethroned, however, by Dr. MEI using Prometheus to infiltrate it and become the new Will of Honkai. As for the Cocoon of Finality, nothing was explained of it in the later chapters, I might deep dive into the earlier chapters to see what it's about, but so far this is what Kiana says: "The Cocoon is just a mirror of yours after all." "How you embrace humanity is how the Cocoon embraces humanity."
the moment Otto changed the Imaginary Tree, adding new branches, new future, new possibilities and by extension new worlds right after that, "Mihoyo" changed into "Hoyoverse" coincidence? I THINK NOT!
Mihoyo didn't change into Hoyoverse. The company is still Mihoyo what they changed is the name of their global publishing arm. And that change is ofc only for global the company and everything in china is still referred to as Mihoyo and not Hoyoverse.
Ever since the beginning of the game we are told that the world is Teyvat is one of many, and that the twins have visited several before, so the revelation that Teyvat exists somewhere in the Honkai multiverse is pretty logical. However, the amount of parallelisms shown here is absolutely astounding and if not just a quirk of the creators being drawn to certain aesthetics and themes, has very cool implications for what we might see in the future of the game.
I am still in the first 25 minutes of this video but I wanted to THANK YOU for doing this. I have been very alone in my devouring of the Honkai story since I became a Genshin player. So much so that I have been noticing and seeing things for a very, very long time and not been able to get my friends to share my enthusiasm of all these little connections. In this first 25 minutes you've talked about things that friends brushed off so thank you for showing me my lore and connection seeking self was valid in seeing! Also, I love the audiobooks thank you so much for those 🥰
Honkai has won such a special place in my heart, and I feel like the two games compliment each other so well, they're like. Love letters haha! -- Ganymede
I also kind of wonder if the Twins outfits are actually battle suits that aid them during their travels. It would explain why they say that the outfit is important to them when Ayaka offers to buy them a kimono (besides sentimental value) and why the developers said that they have no plans on giving them a new outfit. Their survival and even power might actually depend on their clothes, and if their wings at the start of the game are part of their mantis form then maybe it also helps them maintain control over it. Also there's K.K who is still a mystery however in GGZ Kevin's nickname is K.K, if Griseo is responsible for Teyvat then that might explain why K.K seems familiar with Teyvat and introduces the Traveler to this world. Looking at the new weapon set in Genshin it sounds like P.O did win the war and the Goddess of Flowers even warns Deshret not to ask questions about them or its shades, with her disposition maybe the long war with the second actually warped Griseo's personality which could have infected the shades and she has no way of going back to the way she was. Perhaps the Traveler's ultimate goal is to save Griseo, which is why in Travail Dain tells them to prove that they can save her. On another note although Venti is a Wendy xp I think there might actually be a few characters that are an xp of two or more characters, so with how mysterious Venti is I wonder if he'll end up having a few Elysia elements to him as far as story goes.
Ei is Raiden Mei xp (obvious) Asmoday is HoV xp Zhongli is Welt xp Nahida is Theresa xp Ppl speculate that Tsaritsa is Bronya xp and Pyro Archon is Murata Himeko xp And as some know, Focalors is sort of a Seele xp I feel like Alice may very well end up being an Elysia xp
@@quantumtheabyssalwolf950 Just to place this here: Saw a comment about how Guizhong (idk how to spell her name) could be sushang xp, and Zhongli as Fu hua xp, it was based on the CN voice line sushang would say during her ult, you can find this in HI3 Wallows stigma ice dps test, or something similar
in Honkai Impact we have Honkai, the mastermind behind all the destruction in the universe, possessing a person's body and giving them immense power that turns them into monsters. in Genshin Impact we have Abyssal Energy, which is also a world destroyer, even possessing Gold/Rhinedottir which makes her lose control and with great power she becomes a threat to Teyvat. in Honkai: Star Rail we have Stellaron, Cancer of all world that was planted by Aeon of Destruction to destroy a civilization, this Stellaron also possessed and corrupted Cocolia, turning her into a monster that threatens the planet. I have a theory. What if Stellaron and Abyssal Energy were Honkai? Think of it this way, the Honkai we know is the Honkai created for the Honkai Impact Universe, whereas in other Universes in the vast Imaginary Tree, Honkai comes with a different form, different powers, but is still a major threat, and is capable of turning someone into a monster. . Even with all that diversity, they still come from the same thing, which created everything in this Hoyoverse Fictional World. *And What if... All this will lead to something bigger than we ever known in the Hoyoverse... The big bad is out there.*
Pausing the video real quick to say that THIS is the video I've been looking for regarding the connections between Genshin and Honkai. I've been playing both games for quite some time now, the lore being the most intriguing part to me, but I was never able to fully grasp how they could be connected despite trying to pierce things together for myself. Thank you SO MUCH for this. Enjoying every second so far
5:48 regarding the similarities: Though kiana isn’t the Herrscher of void anymore in this point of Honkais Story.. Her Herrscher of Finality Outfit has the same three star shape on her left shoe
Since Dvalin was shown together with Fallen Rosemary Teyvat might be part of the Captainverse which is just full of insanity but crucially that does include a group that is frequently visiting different worlds and Alice might be part of that group.
Design wise there are a lot of similarities between Fallen Rosemary and Lisa. Both of their ultimate abilities are based on a lantern and both excel at setting up a large aoe attack by comboing their other attacks and skills in certain ways.
Kiana too. His banner came out on Kiana's birthday, and he is the first character in Genshin that able to fight mid-air (same as Kiana). He's a puppet without a heart, Kiana is a clone, a test subject I think they're intertwined
@@projectvaluka if you look at it a bit more, scaramouche's boss fight has extremely similar theme as when mei became the herrscher of thunder, where, scaramouche represented mei while traveller represented beneras.
An issue with Griseo being the Primordial one is that she doesn't actually have any powers of creation. She is a psychic mantis and her abilities are purely psychological. She only has the power of creation within the Elysian Realm because that is a virtual space affected by the minds of the flame chasers.
- If we add in honkai 2 lore, there's the possibility that Griseo could become a herrscher, and gain the ability to create with imaginary power. Which could honestly be kind of terrifying. - If we throw in the sky people and how they look identical to the monsters in Griseo's paintings, that race may have captured Griseo, and used her paintings as inspiration for their evolution. Griseo may actually simply be the creator of the Sky People, or responsible for them seeking out humanity. - Griseo's metamorph was never shown, nor what it could do. - One other thing is that there's a 'space' inside a herrscher core similar to stigma space, which is another neat thing if Griseo became a herrscher, or had a divine key in the Ark to tinker with. She could create all of Teyvat inside that core.
@@battlecast9202 Then you didn't pay attention to the story. She didn't wreck a whole city she created a painting based on Kalpas that caused so much internal chaos that it brought the city to the brink of destruction. Here is the actual dialogue from the game that mentions it. It is from Raven's about Griseo (1) conversation. Raven: It’s just rumors, but… I’ve heard that although her art can be easily destroyed, it has some sort of effect on the minds of those who see it. Raven: And whatever that effect is will be determined by who she was last with. Raven: That’s what Eden told me. I heard that art that Griseo did after spending some time with Kalpas brought the whole city to the brink of destruction from internal chaos. Mei: Really… So, since the Elysian Realm is a space constructed by people’s minds, she can create life-like monsters here? Raven: That’s right. But they aren’t all monsters. To be more accurate…, they are the manifestation of a person’s self-perception. We’ve seen those before. they likely belonged to Kosma.
So I just had a thought. Otto created future branches where Kallen lives. What does that cause? The sustainer is obviously related 'somehow' to Kiana, since they are visually very similar. What if when Kallen survives, the betrayals of the people and learning the truth causes her to lose it a bit, and become the Sustainer. The problem is time in Genshin doesn't behave like on the tree. Unless Otto messing with creating timelines ON the tree causes instability, and that leads to Genshin. It's a reach, I know. I just feel like the timelines Otto creates haven't really been explored too well yet. But who knows. I think we don't quite have all the info to draw a conclusion yet.
The only thing I've got to go on is that The Imaginary tree CHANGED after Otto touched it, and it looked more like Irminsul from Genshin after he did his alterations sooooo... maybe that's a little crumb to go on? Not sure how useful it is. :oa
26:58 SU entered the hibernation chamber with KEVIN and HUA. It was only after the failure of Project EMBER and the losing contact with Project ARK did SU start with Project VALUKA. SU observed different worlds for a couple thousand years rather than 50,000 years.
Su did not enter Hibernation with Kevin and Hua. In the "last dream" recollection while Kevin and Hua are preparing to enter Hibernation Kevin asks Hua where Su is and she replies that he isn't coming. Also in the second Key manga, Kevin asks Su what he has observed over the last 50k Years for project Valuka.
I'll be real honest this video makes me feel very vindicated knowing that someone else caught alot of the stuff that I thought was odd between the similarities of both games and how it always bothered me that people just refused to see how much they are linked together. Side note some things that I noticed that could just be me is stuff like how for one I think rhinedotter is the mobius expy and that the sumeru samsara arc lined up right around the same time the adam arc with theresa in honkai.
Finally someone bold enough to say that "There's connection between Honkai & Genshin" I'm tired of people telling me that there is zero connection between the games, since it's crystal clear that the devs make these reference and connection for a reason
@@rulerofmy_heartz Yeah, mostly from new Genshin player that thinks that if there's connection, they need to play the whole Honkai Impact 3rd game, which is not the case. Either way the that kind of mentality is just bugs me, like saying there is no such thing as Marvel Universe
@@ninosanjaya Hell I've only play Genshin for a few months since Ayaka's 200+ days rerun back in 2.6 and know the bare minimum wage about Honkai yet I'm a huge fan of the theory that they're connected
@@rulerofmy_heartz We need new players like you tbh. I'm veterean Honkai & play Genshin from day 1, so I'm fan of all of these theory. I always think Mihoyo to have such a big brain move when it comes to their plot. Sadly not everyone is a fan with this kinda stuff.
@@ninosanjaya Not really related to our topic but I've seen a lot of Genshin characters vs Honkai characters videos and then there's me who's obsessed with the idea of characters from both games getting along and becoming friends
1:01:32 I wouldn't out Cloud Retainer as Fu Hua, I would say Kazuha is more akin to being her counterpart at Genshin, specially because of their hair. And Dain can't be Otto's counterpart too, the world isn't burning yet.
Fifteen minutes in and I'm just in awe how good this was written. The Hoyoverse lore will still blow up when Honkai Star Rail arrives since Welt Yang is in there and has also dropped that the Honkai is but a small being than the Aeons that are featured in HSR. There is Aeon of Finality that moves through time.
Honkai story is literally the best fiction that I have ever experienced from any form of media, I have some hope that genshin will reach that level one day, sumeru was certainly a step up, hope you had fun experiencing the beautiful story and welcome new captain!
This was fantastically documented. Thank you so much for taking time to put it all together in very digestible format. Like an outsider looking in, I have been very curious about Honkai Impact and it's connections to Genshin Impact but lack the time to go through it. Thank you so much for making this video.
There are a lot of connections. Genshin’s theme of gnosticism and Celestia preventing progress on Teyvat all allude to themes currently well tackled in Honkai.
There are a lot of connections. Genshin’s theme of gnosticism and Celestia preventing progress on Teyvat all allude to themes currently well tackled in Honkai.
I think there’s a reason why Honkai hasn’t explored that much about Griseo. We don’t even know what beast was injected into her. The abilities she has shown so far give little knowledge as to what she possibly could do, especially in AHR form. Imagine her in AHR and as an adult.
I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the newest Traveler quest, especially because you specifically mentioned the Loom of Fate. I really hope that you will continue to make Honkai/Genshin videos because this is by far the best one I’ve seen. You guys deserve way more subs! Excellent analysis as always
Another fantastic video. I just don't have the time to play Honkai, so having those that do connect the dots to help give me an idea of the greater scope is wonderful. Hope you are feeling better with the bronchitis and I look forward to seeing your next video!
"only through eternity are you closest to the heavenly principles" -Raiden Ei If Inazuma stays the same then we will exist forever.... sounds like something someone trying to prevent a Honkai Impact would say
Do you plan on making a part 2 to this video addressing the recent lore drops in genshin, the current arc in Hi3, and the tidbits we know about Elio and the Aeon of Finality, Terminus from HSR (+ Acheron/Raiden Bosenmori Mei and the multiverse nature of HSR’s planets)
One thing to note is that otto’s definition of honkai as a test is not necessarily true, it’s just one of the many hypotheses humans have made regarding the definition of honkai. Another hypothesis is that honkai’s attacks on the world are a form of ‘embrace’. At that time humans still didn’t really know what honkai was.
This was a fascinating and thorough deep dive, with new lore bits I didn't know. How did you realise Enka was Delphi? I've always hyptothesized that either Genshin is sub-Honkai somehow, or that it was the conglomeration of several dead worlds kept stable in the Sea of Quanta via a network of poweful artifact. A fragile world only stable as long as the leylines, the visions, the Statues and the Gnosii do their jobs as they are supposed to. Tying that idea together with the idea of the Arc... Also, does anyone have any info on the Owls of Teyvat? Because I've got the Dragonspine Glider, the odd description of King Deshret and the Seelie in 'the Lay of Al-Achmar' and the walls of Tsurumi Island behind which we can find the Star-Shaped Gems. Enough to be certain that there's something to that, but not enough to have even the bones of a theory.
In the in-game book that's part of the Byakuyakoku Collection (from Enka obvs) "Hydrological Studies in Byakuyakoku" it mentions that the city was known as Delphi in ancient times, likely before it sank! "n the earliest times, this place was called Delphi, the land of snakes. This name did not change even after the arrival of Watatsumi Omikami. Ancient art depicts the scaleless serpent as "Ouroboros," and the coral-adorned serpent as "Orobashi.""
!!!!! im so happy you made this!!! i’ve recently gotten into honkai bc of star rail coming out soon and this is exactly the kind of video i was needing thank you so much!!❤ i love ur content!
I'm a huge fan of classic turn-based games. Grew up on them! So I also, can't wait for Star Rail. Alas, didn't make it into beta but I plan on playing it when it releases! :)
Personal harebrained theory:: Ive never played honkai and really dont have the means to (i wish they would release everything on psn) but i would like to think since everything is a cycle teyvat is where it all began.. likw the tree of life and irminsul being the tree that feeds the universe thats why the firmament was created to hide that away from the honkai because any life would be something that could become humanity . And the sibiling has turned into a honkai and is trying to destroy the origins of life its self..to put an end to the entire cycle and truth of the world/universe
You're not too far off from my own most tin-foil-hatted theory on this. The newest HI3 story which will end the current storyline and progress into an entirely new phase with different main characters etc. etc. ended with saving a world created by a deity from the "abyss" in the sea of quanta... the world was artificially created by her, its inhabitants meant to serve as vessels for the digital data containing the souls/memories of her long-dead planet's people. Only... they kind of kept becoming sentient and doing their own thing, so she wiped it clean to try again over and over. She also left behind... seven 'representatives' to watch over this place, that were clones of her. She created this planet from power stolen from an ancient super-powered space ship called the Ark... it was named Phosphorous and Hesperus (Like in Enkanomiya). So the evidence is definitely stacking up on that one. (and that just scratches the surface as an explanation lol)
@@projectvaluka omg I really appreciate the lore "dump" I've been on a whole genshin thing this week ( I usually play like one week a month and switch around to my other games )and have been watching your videos all week and theyre kinda what made me come to that conclusion! along with my own research in game 😊
I finally finished watching this behemoth of a lore video -in a good way! Thank you so much for covering all these parallels and connections between Honkai and Genshin. I tried playing Honkai but I found it too confusing, so I'm glad that you made this. Also can I just say that my brain exploded 🤯 I can't wait to see if your theories and predictions for the origin of Teyvat are confirmed in the future!
As a longtime honkai player I really appreciate the time and depth of effort you put into this, and you brought up several things I either hadn't known or thought about, especially with reference to common design elements (one particular thing of note to me was the repeated pattern of the three four-point stars that comes up in the genshin starting cutscene, and appears many times in honkai e.g. when durandal travels through the sea of quanta in the London Holiday manga). Great analysis and a good way explanation of why a good number of honkai players think genshin can fit into that world.
You know according to Honkai lore which says about ALL possible worlds being attacked by the Honkai. It means that All worlds including our own Earth (aka IRL) is canonically apart of the Honkai multiverse that is going down the same path of history that we are. Which is scary because ( According to the Many worlds interpretation of the Multiverse) we could unknowingly be apart of the Honkai verse without realizing it. Forgot existential crisis, we could have to deal with The Honkai in the future
in Honkai, first thing to exists is the Sea of Quanta. the Sea came first, giving birth to the Imaginary Tree but both is trying to expand in their own way while overtaking the other. its an endless war and rivalry Imaginary Tree the "Imaginary Tree" is the source of ALL life. the Tree is most likely based on Ygdrasil with its 9 worlds/ Realms but in Honkai ver, its infinite worlds if we see it as tree however, a single branch from this tree is a universe & a leaf is a world. the Trunk as the main timeline seperated into possibilities as branches. but how about the root? well its purpose is too "Drink" the Sea of Quanta overtime, this tree will get bigger, taller and wider. as these happens, the tree becomes heavy, older and wither. the phenemenon known as the "Honkai" acts as the Tree's Gardener, pruning the branches, removing the bad ones and at the same time nurtures it. how the Honkai do these? well they "test" the leaf, appearing in many forms as its very adaptable but its also limited to the leaf's knowledge. for example manifesting as a Natural Disaster, a virus, a disease. whatever that is a potential threat towards the Humanity, as a test. Honkai use the Humanity knowledege against the Humanity. its also a flaw of the Honkai as it cannot grow by itself and can only acts as a counter to humanity. this is one of the reason why, when Civilzation become more advance, so does the Honkai gets more creative in their way eliminate Humanity i.e Monsters, Zombies, superhero, Evil gods that can destroy the world... who came up with these ideas? Humanity themselves, they create fictions, entertainments etc and Honkai take inspirations this is to ensure, Only the strongest worlds survives and helps the Tree to grow the failed products, that fail worlds falls into the Sea of Quanta, abandoned by the Tree and Honkai. this world is called Bubble Universe. Just like a bubble, they are fragile and unstable Humanity found a way to travel along the Tree's Branches, allowing them to visit other worlds and even to the Roots to explores numerous bubble universes Sea of Quanta Sea of Quanta, you can view it as the trash, junkyard, the abyss, the void. it swallows everything and trying to expands itself further and one day, eat the Tree whole. Sea of Quanta & Imaginary Tree is in a symbiotic relationship with each other. not much is known about the Sea but its inhabitant, Known as Quantum Shadows is similar to a Honkai Beasts in appearance but looks translucents, and can exit & enter Dimensions. as if they are Ghost that can freely move between the Physical world and the Spiritual world. in a positive perspective: when one thrives, the other flourished. one cant exist without the other as they feed on what the other is producing. the Sea is watering the tree helping it to grow, while the Tree gives them food (the bubble universes) to absorbs science and logic doesnt exist in the Sea, time flows constantly and sometimes overlaps, overwrites and contradicts each other. Everything Has/ Have not/ will /never happen and sometime all of that at once. A Bubble Universe is free but at the same time dying, slowly being absorb by the Sea. the Sea houses all kind of possibilites, even those that never happen in the Tree. because Bubble Universe can exist of out nowehre and appear suddenly in the Sea. even though a bubble universe is already in the Sea. it can still survive and be saved/ rescued by external means, if they can found a way to connect them to the Tree's Roots. although rare but by some miracle, a bubble universe can even live independently. not influenced by the Sea, the Tree or the Honkai Herscherr a Herscherr is a combination of both Honkai & human. the result of when the Honkai is trying to directly control one individual among the humanity, this is because human is the strongest form in that world and Honkai have high compatibility with these being. a Herscherr could be exclusive to that certain Branch only. in other branches and leaf, a Herscherr may not exist at all. what makes a Herscherr powerful is that the Honkai is "finally" sentient and capable of doing more than just watching & waiting for result, accelerating the doom of the world. meanwhile Honkai usually its just a force of nature. The Main story in the grand scheme of things in "Honkai Impact 3rd" story, basically its a story of a leaf that refuse to die, fighting off the Honkai, denying the natural selection. even forcing the Tree itself to be involved in this matter what we know is that, in the Hoyoverse. everything is a constant, a cycle. full of rebirth and reincarnations. you cant seem to escape fate. although each worlds is different, they still parallel each other. especially evident with the characters appearance and their conclusions. in the HI3rd-verse, the previous characters appears again after the world reset. 2 main example of this is Himeko and SAKURA. dont want to get too spoilery but they end up the same way as their previous life but how they get there is different. Hmmm maybe the Imaginary Tree is a Database, full of Character_Assets, Model, Texture, Title, Name etc. and each Branch/ leaf takes the Generic Asset from the Database to produce their own Model in their own world (game) thats why the character appears to be copy pasted in terms of design, across all the Hoyoverse games what happen after this? Idk really. Maybe Honkai finally being sentient after being in contact with human, and want to take over control of the Imaginary Tree going against their Master or Humanity prevails and takes control of the Honkai instead.... using their newfound power to eliminate Honkai/ use as a power source from the their own Branch, or even the whole Tree itself. a new Version of the "Sky People" Ho boy, the Sky Poeple is another deep and convulted rabbit hole to go through, not to mention the Sugars too........lets skip that but what about the Tree and the Sea, perhaps it will never happen. or one day the Sea Swallow the Tree or the Tree absorbs all the Sea
This video has scratched a deep itch I had (and still have) with regards to the world of Hoyoverse. On top of the lore that's connecting within the Hoyoverse, we should also see it as a celebration of otaku fandom. Tech Otakus Save The World - that's Mihoyo's motto until recently. Evangelion references everywhere in Honkai - their first Honkai game is named "Fly Me to the Moon". Honkai Impact 3rd references the Third Impact. The erosion of body and mind brings to mind Guilty Crown, Code Geass and its equivalents. On the Genshin side, there's the BotW reference as well as many pop and anime references in the Achievements section. Even Hoyoverse as a name, while at first glance would seem as a nod to the metaverse craze a while back, feels more like a Nasuverse reference (think FGO, and to a lesser extent, the Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai worlds, named after the creator, Kinoko Nasu). In any case, I'm looking forward to the conclusion of the story of Teyvat in Genshin, which hopefully is just the first act of many in the world of Hoyoverse.
I'm listening to this just after finding out in leaks of 3.5 that Khaenri'ah is apparently under Sumeru. Oh, that we're getting a bunch of info about the hexenzirkel most likely from Alice.
its interesting because genshin has a lot of direct ties to gnosticism and a lot of this theory in itself makes a lot of paralels to the part of the story that led to our earth or in this case genshins creation
I'm going to leave this here. This is testimony from one of the ACTUAL sky people in Genshin! He's a shade NPC in Enkanomiya you can talk to at anytime. Aberaku(Abrax): "When the sky kingdom crashed into the bottomless depths, the people were scoured by dragons, and thus did I - yes, 'twas I - begin building the Helios to save us all from our fate." This is why Enkanomiya floats in Genshin, it is pieces of that sky kingdom that took the population with it, probably during the second crown war. And probably the God that put Enkanomiya in a slow time bubble was Istoroth. It was the first "snake god" that helped them to survive before Orobashi showed up to free the populations from their depths. Also Kazuha being a gender-bent Phoenix Psychic-type Fu Hua, it pretty dope.
52:30 so the bubble that kinda encompasses teyvat, is infact literally to protect the inside from honkai... huh. which means traveller was a thought to hopefully be able to take down the honkai if it ever occured
55:17 So much coming out in genshin in 4.2 related to the gnoses and dragons and the primordial sea supports this, and it would make sense considering the sustainer is trying to, quote, "end the arrogation of humanity" which is probably synonymous with humanity trying to rebel against celestia without realizing that maybe celestia is trylng to help them escape the samsara Heavenly Principles = Ark stability system and the sustainer is actually trying to help humanity perhaps. She captured/repelled the twins, didn't kill them. Cursed the khaenrians, didn't wipe them out. "Sustainer"🤔
I knew that Genshin was a branch of the Imaginary Tree without looking for proof, I was at this conclusion on my narrative instincts... It certainly doesn't help me as a fiction enjoyer that I'm lazy to an extreme, and find the task of looking right the hell in front of me to be too much of a burden to bear, but I mean that's part of what made your hour-long video essay deep-dive such a good watch for me. Never stop bro, this is peak
Thank you so much for making this video! As a beloved honkai and genshin fan and lore enjoyer I honestly commend you for making a video like this given that a lot of the lore communities of both games are so scared of connecting the two together. Really well made!
A really well done and deep dive into the lore of a 7 year old game. As a player who has been enjoying honkai since 2016, I'm impressed by the way you presented Ideas in a short amount of time. That project ark theory is a solid argument which focuses on the main mission of that said project. I just feel bad for grise tbh, imagine drifting in space for possibly 10,000 years or so all alone on a ship with no idea that your mother figure along with the friends you have grown up with are all dead.
Man, I still remember Honkai's storyline had a major rewrite at one point. If you've been at the game for 6 years, surely you still remember a time when the game was still explicitly a continuation of GGZ, complete with the cast being in a To Aru style school for the gifted valkyries that trained its students to fight Honkai invasions across the world, with Fu Hua being an actual class president, Himeko being the homeroom teacher, Mei being the Valedictorian, Bronya being the smart one, and Theresa being the principal (The school is currently part of a flooded city and has been that way ever since the beginning, we only ever see it complete in memory segments and events that involve the city.)
I remembered in Albedo's story quest when he said that when the time comes that he will destroy "this" world, will the traveler be ABLE TO STOP HIM gives me more things to ponder
Tbh, your video really makes me want to dive into Honkai. I have no time though (hello college) Thanks for your video, it's very clear! Though i have no ability's to see how far fetched your theories are xD
Thanks for the work, it was interesting! The intertwining of destinies and stories is at the heart of miHoYo games. But unraveling this interweaving is very difficult! Hope your health is good!
Thank you for an informative video! Also it's interesting how Mei said to kiana: "If rescuing you is a sin, I will gladly become a sinner." And then you see the trailer from Elysian realm where Griseo is painting Mei in chains. Mai is in chains just like a sinner in genshin.
1. Irminsul was created by the unknown god (zhongli is living proof because he lived as a dragon sovereign before the heavenly principles arrived in teyvat and he still remembers Rukkhadevata). So it makes sense for characters to resemble honkai counterparts since the irminsul tree, what creates life, artifacts and almost everything inteyvat (you can actually see this in game, things that release boue sparkles when they die are going to the irminsul tree and when you get artifacts you can actually see the sparkles coming to you) is made up of the unknown god's memories of humanity or crafted based on said memories. • Griseo's dolmain looks like the genshin wish screen. • 32:45 This is baseless especulation so dont listen to me but That guy looks a LOT like Zhongli's dragon form. Then again, zhongli is originally from teyvat so this makes no sense, im just simping ~♡ • 36:40 guys, i think we just found our cup shade. The 4 shades of the primordial one are based on the artifacts you get, the circlet being the primordial one. Paimon seems to be the sands and this could totally be who the cup is based on (again just speculation based on a picture and also i've never played honkay so idk ^^) (Ill go updating as i watch along the video and make more possible connections) • Haven't finished the video so not sure but Honkai doesn't seem to have an Alice. Alice is literally the female version of dain, however she is not bound by irminsul and she does everything dain can't in that sense. (like she introduces Scaramouche bc dain wouldn't remebwr who he is). She is a huge and a bt overlooked part of the lore and its interesting that she doesn't have a honkai counterpart (or it could be Vill V and Alice is just a code name or smth along those lines, since Alice is also a genious inventor) (also could have something to do with 42:19, Alice pink hair??) (42:35 oh... ^^' im not deliting thisnwhole thing tho) (OK THIS MADE SENSE ALL OF A SUDDEN. her name is Elysia, and guess which name is pronunced the exact same, Alicia aka Alice) • 54:40 Traveller dat u? • 56:18 OMG THATS WHY THEY DESTROYED KAHENRI'AH, they were not dabbling in abyssal power but Literally trying to use honkai energy to power their machinery bc they were jealous they were not "chosen ones" as dain says, and couldn't manipulate elememtal energy, thus getting concerningly close to triggering the honkai and needing to be exterminated. • 57:03 Literally Zhongli.
so..i know there's a lot of back and forth like "oh but if that's true you'd have to play HI3 to get Genshin and they're supposed to be standalone games"" which i could understand, although i think it just deepens the experience but there's this reoccuring thing in esotoric religions and Gnosticism in particular, where because everything emanates from the Pleroma ("the fullness of God" in the true sense of the origin of all that is), things tend to repeat themselves and serve as clues to the nature of existence. so even if Griseo didn't go off into space and become Teyvat's creator deity in the sense of a linear plot, it's likely this what was intended anyway.
A visual that intrigued me while watching this was the red feather/plume. It has the same shape as the feathers associated with Venti/Barbatos who is one of 2 gods of Mondstat (Istaroth being forgotten over Time ironically); and I saw a post on Twitter a few days back showing just how red the anemo visions are when inverted in color. It's about the same shade of red as the feather in the clip which is in a Honkai fight. Obviously there's a lot of bigger symbolism connecting these 2 games as a whole; but that small detail really makes me think that there's a lot more to Barbatos, Istaroth and Mondstat as a whole than we might think especially given the inscription around Venti's statue..
(Haven't watched yet because classes but) I absolutely love Honkai and the potential connections between it and Genshin always seem to take over my brain so I'm so happy to see you guys making a theory about this!
I think you're close, but not quite there: Note that Teyvat is another bubble world on the Imaginary Tree, same as _HI3_ 's world, and many others, including that of _Honkai Star Rail_ . _HSR_ is notable because it has both a younger, scientist Murata Himeko (in _HI3_ she was a scientist before her father was killed and she decided to become a Valkyrie to fight the Honkai), and another space-bound train. _HI3_ showed us one type of use for the Divine Key _Cosmic Juggernaught_ , and with _HSR_ we will see another possible use, via the _Astral Express_ . This would rather directly indicate that the people of different worlds could find different ways to use things like the Divine Keys, and even different ways to execute the different parts of Project SAVE (Stigma, Ark, Veruka, Ember). In _HI3_ , Su meditated and used _Cosmic Juggernaught_ to peer into other bubble universes. But in _HSR_ , the Astral Express crew will be visiting other words directly. In _HI3_ , Project ARK's ships are single-person vessels. But what if another bubble world's Project ARK ships were colony ships, capable of housing and raising an entire world's worth of an ecosystem, an ark in its most literal and functional sense. What if, in this bubble world that created the colony ships as their Project ARK, they determined that simply housing genomes in cryosleep wasn't enough. They wanted to train humanity to be able to fight the Honkai, and so they created a training ground with a false sky in their colony ship or ships. The idea would be to give as many people as possible the ability to resist, fight, and defeat the Honkai as possible. We know that we don't know the criteria that Celestia uses for granting Visions, only that they are the ones responsible for doing so. The theory is that once a person's ambition becomes great enough, they are acknowledged by the gods and the world, and are granted a Vision. But then what about Klee and other younger people who have been granted Visions? What was their great ambition that was acknowledged? We just don't know. Another thing we do know is that every Vision bearer or Allogene or Genshin has the potential to be further acknowledged by Celestia and gain a Gnosis, becoming an Archon. Archons have less dependence on their Gnosis than Genshin have on their Visions, since they do not lose their memories associated with their ambitions if they lose their Gnosis, and their personalities do not suffer a change. Both a Vision and a Gnosis seem to correspond to a certain level of elemental power, however there is something else to consider: the Twins' relation to the world and the Elements. Here I will refer to the twin who travels with Paimon as the Traveler, and the twin who ends up with the Abyss as the Abyss Sibling. The Abyss Sibling seems to have the notable ability to use Abyssal elemental power, similar to how Dainsleif can also do this, and nowhere on their person can one spot a Vision, and although they could be carrying their own Gnosis, I doubt they have one given their positions as exiles. I think it is important to note their Abyssal power as another element, though, outside of the Seven that correspond to the Archons, because of the way Tartaglia was able to interact with it, and because the Abyss Order was able to charge one of the Barbatos statues with it. As for the Traveler, they can resonate with different Statues of the Seven to gain access to a lesser version of their elemental power. While gameplay only allows us to use one element at a time, during our battle with Childe, we are shown to be able to use more than one at once. At the same time, Miko has intimated that while we have a goal, finding our lost sibling, it is not strong enough to be called an ambition that could be recognized by Celestia, and result in our being granted a Vision or Gnosis. But I would not put it past Hoyo to have that be part of our endgame story. I believe that the journey will be the stepping stones upon which the Traveler establishes for themselves an ambition strong enough to be recognized, that at the crucial moment, they will not only regain their full power, and together with their sibling be able to use all of the elements, but also gain a Vision or a Gnosis. And this power will grant them both the advantage they needed but didn't have in their inevitable rematch against the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles. And here we circle back to the beginning, while also peering through to what lies underneath. In the beginning cutscene, the Sustainer delivers quite the beatdown on the fully-powered Twins, trapping one completely and the other incompletely. It is later shown in the Abyss Sibling's flashback that the Sustainer's cubes were practically everywhere marking the destruction of Khaenr'iah. We also know that Celestia sent the Archons to deal with Khaenr'iah originally, but sending in the Sustainer as well would seem to indicate that the Archons did not or were not able to complete the assignment Celestia had given them. So the Sustainer finished the job. This would seem to indicate that the Sustainer is more powerful than the Archons of that time, and the Sustainer is based on God Kiana or the Herrscher of the Void. And it would stand to reason that Celestia, as the administrator of Teyvat, would want their enforcer to be pretty powerful. This would also seem to indicate that even the Archons are some ways away from being powerful enough to take on the Herrschers of Honkai, and indeed, in _HI3_ 's gameplay, there are many Valkyries who can be considered to be stronger than the Archons, including the Herrschers. If Celestia wants Teyvat prepared for the inevtable war, in the case they cannot continue to hide from the Will of Honkai, the Genshin would all need to be trained up. And there are already mechanisms in place to train and test Genshins' strength in Teyvat, because the last thing guarding the Ascension Tests is a being of pure elemental energy, the Electro Hypostasis, simply designated with the Hebrew letter 'Aleph.' Other elemental Hypostasis of mysterious origin, and with unknown reason, dot Teyvat. They just seem to be there, waiting for challenges who will then restore the leyline and get some materials, mostly in the form of some seed, like Sumeru or simply a seed of growth, since they can be used as Ascension Materials. It's also curious they are designated with Hebrew letters, since the only other place in _Genshin_ to use Hebrew so far is the name of the world itself. But... this is a big reach, and could turn out to have other reasons. I still don't know why Celestia would send out the Sustainer the way they did, in an action that ended up spawning the Abyss Order, with the lost sibling as its head. The Abyss Order has the stated objective of destroying all humanity, just as is the stated objective of the Honkai. But unlike the Abyss Order, Otto seems to have been convinced the Honkai are also responsible for nurturing and testing humanity, to judge their worthiness. The Abyss Order has no such objective, and so they are a corrupted form of Honkai... but also still a form of training for the Genshin, if you want to see Teyvat as a training ground as well as an ark. So if I look at Teyvat as another bubble universe's Project ARK, all of this seems possible. As for Griseo, given the resemblance between her creations on the Elysian Realm and the Sky People's scouts in APHO, I can't help concluding that the Sky People might have captured Griseo, and are using her art as inspiration for their scouts' forms. Given that, though, I have no idea why Mei in APHO does not give any sign of recognizing these forms, since she fought them many times in the Elysian Realm. It seems unlikely she would have forgotten any of the Flame-Chasers eight or nine years later. I think it would be interesting, though, if Griseo was alive but captured, since this could lead to a mission to rescue her, and even though Mei has had experience with a sim of her, she and Griseo have never actually met. So this Griseo wouldn't have the part of her combo attack where she says "Paintbrush, obey me!"
You seem to have a misconception about what the Term bubble universe/world means. That term is reserved specifically for fallen leaves and other artificial worlds that have fallen into SoQ. It is not a term that can be used for worlds still attached to the tree. Which is what the HI3 universe is.
sry for the late replay the only thing whats wrong is the Sea of Quanta only Exites because of the Tree , as it is Revealed in GGZ what the Tree is in truth Zeus or rather his dead Body and the Leafs are his Blood . befor it there was only Honkai and the Outer gods ( Yes Cuthull is part of the Honkai verse Azatoh was the one who killed zeus in the first place ) the Sea of Quanta came into being to destroy The Tree or rather to decompose Zeus corpse
Maybe you can connect Eden and Gold as artists? Gold's method of creation is like Albedo's... drawing/painting. Which by the way... Griseo may as well be the greatest Khemia user of all time.
Thanks for the vid. As lore enjoyer, I can't stop watching this theory videos to keep my brain active and my mind open. As far as I know, indeed at first Genshin was actually made as part of Honkai universe (there was that one clip that shows the devs confirm it). Also there're some of the materials in the beta that shows : 1. About one book where the writer dreamed about civilization facing off their doom but 13 courageous souls challenged this catastrophe although they still fail in the end. Back then we still don't know the significance of this until we got The Flamechaser in Honkai. 2. The introduction of the twins written by K.K. In one of the early clip about the making of Elysian Realm arc, K.K named shown as one member of Flamechaser with Brahma as their Beast DNA factor. But none of the Flamechaser has this in their bio. Until after Elysian Realm arc ended that apparently, yes, K.K is a member of Flamechaser and yes, we knew the fellow quite well (spoiler for the Moon arc in Honkai). Take it with a grain of salt, that indeed Genshin was made as "extension" in Honkai universe *at first* but nowadays? Welp, the only clue that enough so far was that in Genshin, the sky is false.
I really like your theory as a honkai player I really appreciate the hard work you put on to this. If it's okay I like to share some of the information Ive gathered to help with this theory and make it even more interesting Let's start with Elysia founding member of the 13th flamechasers, Miss Pink Elf adored by many and the first herrscher of the previous era (PE) but what makes her special to other herrschers is that she wasn't human in the first place but rather the physical manifestation of the authority of origin born out of nowhere, but despite being born a herrscher she managed to live as a human up until her final banquet to return herself to where she came and that is the cocoon of finality and what it is, it's kinda vague cause there no info given of what it is or where it came from, the only thing we know in the community is that it traverses the universe to find sentient life forms to give them it's "Embrace" but this embrace is difficult for mortal beings to take, which causes other worlds to die along with it's inhabitants in the main honkai universe then seeks again until it's final stop on earth and landed on the moon but what makes interesting is not what it is or where it came up but how it is powerful and capable influencing reality and those living on it for starters the concept of herrschers this are host of the cocoon powers what happens is that the cocoon's powers when it enters the base reality it filters out to different spectrums of itself in a total of 13 herrschers but for it's powers it depends on how that civilization is capable of resisting the cocoon's attempt to give it's embrace one particular thing that stands out is it's aponia seeing the threads of fate of each person in the world which is actually the cocoon latching and influencing the inhabitants on the world to it's will, there are implications to this which results of who the cocoon chooses as a vessel for it's powers and have complete control over that host in a attempt to give the civilization it's embrace but due to Elysia returning to the cocoon she actually severed the threads of fate and making aponia no longer accurately see the person's fate now that fate can be rewritten by the person themselves changing the course of fate for that person and miraculously for the herrschers in the current era (CE). It's just one of the cocoon abilities it just gets crazier but currently the only thing given to us is that it had complete control and can use it efficiently use the authority of the other herrschers on steroids. And it's ability to edit a universe like copying and pasting a game file to make another that is one of it's abilities. But this mini universes are unstable and in a constant halt of time containing memories of lost and forgotten eras. In terms of Griseo there are still no info about her wherebouts but she is alive thanks to some content released in the game although for her current state I would assume she would be in a cryogenic state considering she was traversing inside the solar system for the last 50000 yrs but during the early years in the current era (CE) it managed to leave the solar system 2000 years before the awakening of the pioneers in the their cryogenic sleep to kickstart Project S.A.V.E (Stigma, Ark, Valuka and Ember) there are some speculations in regards of Vill-V's design on the ark whether it's a interstellar travel ship or a multiversal hoping ship just like the Astral Express in star rail which is the 2nd divine key aka the Cosmic Juggernaut which is capable of controlling the fabric of space, traversing through space and other universes and dimensions, observing other universes and one of it's gimmicks is creating a mini bubble universe for a person to inhabit or as a temporary shelter against outside threats and containing otherworldly or dangerous entities. There's is a possibility that griseo created teyvat with her mantis powers and with the aid of a device capable of mimicking the 2nd divine key's zeroth power and with the sky being fake and all, it's still a possibility griseo has something to do with her paintings forming the lands and the sky of teyvat in that mini bubble universe and with the Ark containing the DNA of the human genome one thing led to another forming the people of teyvat as for the archons and gnosis and the heavenly principles with lore given the heavenly principles being a outsider and has influenced the world of teyvat as it is now with the archons resembling as herrscher somehow but with a different role than their counterparts they are trespassers
Interesting things I noticed: - HoV and Asmoday share the same jp va - when Project Ark is explained, two shooting stars are shown, it looks just like how the travelers are depicted in the opening - HoV has the same cn va as Hu Tao - in Ei's second story quest, you have to travel though an abstract space, which reminds me of the Sea of Quanta - the accurate translation actually says that the Sustainer is fading away
Alot of what you said about the honkai and the Will reminded me of one the influences the devs took inspiration from, Gurren Lagann an anime that to me shares a lot of parallels with. Like the Will of honkai being the opposite of the anti-Spirals or the previous era's fall the the fall of the humans against the anti-Spirals, at least to me. Anyone else thinks this or just me?
Wow this guy notices details and stuffs way better than us the veteran honkai and genshin players. I can't help but agree to the connections he mentioned.
For the Murata Himeko, it was confirmed by Venti that the pyro archon’s name is Murata and she has fiery red hair. Sounds like Himeko. I think the pyro archon will be Himeko’s Genshin counterpart, not Diluc.
It made me a bit sad that the captainverse wasn't included, but i would never blame you, since i myself having played for years don't understand it fully, great video btw, keep dem theories coming :v
Maybe in a follow-up video my friend! When I saw I already had over an hour of material, I had to leave some stuff on the cutting room floor, and I'm hoping that particular one will develop with Genshin's story a little more ;) please look forward to it!
Good arguments but what about the mural from Enkanomiya that tells us about the Hyperion, which is a curent era ship in the Honkai lore not a previous era.
Great video! You filled in a bunch of Honkai knowledge gaps for me. I totally buy that Griseo is the primordial one. My crack theory is that Klee (named for a painter), is Teyvat's Griseo, and Genshin's story will end with Klee leaving Teyvat to rebuild/preserve it. 2nd crack theory is that Roselyn gets resurrected in Natlan and takes on an Aponia-type role to stabilize Teyvat against further edits of Irminsul
I am at the start of the loom of fate part, but I want to say that The Sinner from the last quest might be what remains of The Primordial One, or The First Who Came, since it is a rebel to the Heavenly Principles, and another genshin theorizer, Wei, said that they had "fallen from grace". There are also mentions of people becoming sinners in Honkai Impact, but I have not played far enough to know what that could mean. Now to my thory about the start of Teyvat. The Ark comes to Teyvat, which is currently reigned by the Seven Dragon Sovereigns, and is uninhabitable to human. The Primordial One defeats them, and seals them in special creations (Hypostases). However one is able to escape by molding multiple bodies for itself from stone. That is who Wei theorizes is Morax. Morax makes a contract with the primordial one, and one to two thousand years later, he witnesses the fall of civilisations under the hand of The Second Who Came, who defeated The Primordial One. He decides that it's safest to have his nation start travelling, and until it stops he does that. After another five hundred years he meets Guizhong, and then even more time later, the Archon War starts, in which he seals Osial, and Guizhong sacrifices herself to protect their nation. Around that time Barbatos defeats the God of storms (forgot his name), and gains the title of a god. It's also around the time in which Ei defeats The Thunder Bird, and Ouroboros(?). Then, many years later, 500 before the traveler wakes up, a nation by the name of Khaen'riah is destroyed for pursuing the same forbidden knowledge that nearly destroyed Sumeru. Morax is called there to destroy it, after which you definitely know everything. However I also think you should look at Wei's videos, since they are simply superb.
58:54 -the stigma genome is a product of evolution that comes from the honkai beast project (MANTIS) which injects the genes of honkai beasts into women from PE to form a resistance towards the honkai by being embraced/evolved from their childhood state, the only difference is through awakening them. there is no general relation to a "true stigmata" and a "stigmata" with relation to a herrscher is because ultimately the reason for a stigmata to form is through their "will of stigmata". the will of stigma is an "ego" within the stigmata space that is also considered a persona or identity that make up DNA of the human who has it. the best example is mei's "will of stigmata" which was corrupted by the "will of honkai (prometheus)" to turn against humanity by guilt tripping it into becoming the enemy of humanity acting as if she's the Herrscher of lightning. it is not the will of honkai that manipulates honkai but it's from within the imaginary singularity called the "cocoon of finality." which kevin says is an "extraterrestrial manipulator of fate". herrschers aren't born in the current era unlike PE because of elysia, rather they are selected through the imaginary bleed in space that is opened when a honkai eruption occurs. which selects an individual who come in contact with high density honkai radiation and if they are compatible enough forms a core inside them allowing them to use authorities that come from the cocoon of finality. ultimately herrschers only have authorities, the core just acts as a medium for the herrschers to be rooted in real space because they are pure concepts. moreover Finality isn't actually part of the imaginary tree rather it's a higher order civilization within the imaginary tree that forces humanity to evolve.
Thank you so much for summarizing and analyzing the similarities between the two games! ❤I know for sure I won't play Honkai really it sounds very complicated. BUT it is still fascinating for Genshin lore chasers to go down this rabbit hole with you and explore the possibilities 😂
Honestly i would have love a part 2 of another hour long depth about honkai connection with genshin. because of how much i love lore bits feature in Honkai and Genshin, if u every do decided on that, i cant wait for your thoughts! Thank you for providing such a long vid! One thing I crack Hc about is the Hexnezirkel circle and the espy they may be influenced by. Whoever went to the last banquet which Elysia invited ( she invited everyone in the flamechaser but only 4 show up) would be in or somehow involved in the coven of witches. Aponia - Mona's teacher Eden - **could be Gold since genshin love giving her Rhinedottir "Gold" title Vill -V - **She could also be Gold, but my thoughts pull me toward her being Alice Basic on: her Helix Signet , an inventor of divine keys ( importantly is Cosmic Juggernaut, and Alice who traveled between worlds) Her involvement with the Elysia realm is heavy. (Also, monkey island of monkeys. For some reason she just made guns and gave it to them.) IF this doesn't scream Alice's crazy ideas, wooo boy. It won't be surprising too since Vill V and Alice both share many "faces” or titles. Alice is power mage, inventor, adventurer, supplier to Dori and mother. Vill V with her persona: Con Artist, Magician, Mechanic, and Chef. Arguably you could say Alice is long lived and of course she could take many hobbies to pass the time and gain many titles. Kevin - Now this one I have no idea. He could espy that we have yet to meet. Heck Alice's husband since that "seem" to be the only male could have ANY relationship with the circle. Elysia: **Alice, but there is one "being" I would like to add to this list: Istaroth. With how much she is involved in human affairs, and doing their best to support them, she appears to hold such a love for them. More crack, if she keeps her elf ears(she did get them from an experiment project from the fire moth) or could have different ones that follow the theme of “fairy tale” like. Just like the Jinn race, she could have influenced or involvement in the race of elves in genshin. Tie in to her close relationship with the moon itself. (Seele and all) It would not surprise me if she does offer a hand to those "finding the truth of this world" in hope to better the future of humanity. ***I really should not be watching lore at 4 am omg, edit for grammar
i rarely leave comments but i just want to thank you for making this. this is amazing. i have been listening the whole video and still want more. thank you!
I’ve been crack posting in the HoyoImpact channel in my friends’ discord server *for months.* But my Honkai knowledge is very limited and my friends are Genshin-onlys. Imagine the “trying to explain meme” with the cork board and red string, except half the notes aren’t there. There are far too many coincidences for them to just be coincidence This coming into my recommendations is a GODSEND. Archonssend? Herrschersend? Either way, I’m subscribing. Thank you for this
I’ve been playing Honkai since launch and yes, there are a lot of theories that can be drawn that sound possible. After all, both games exist in the Imaginary Tree. The existence of Celestia and its mission to prevent progression sounds so much like its preventing Teyvat from advancing too much, keeping it hidden from Honkai. Also, there’s a false sky that seems to be protecting whole of Teyvat.
OMG, you don't know how much I'm happy now for this video, I love honkai and Genshin impact and they related to each other there is no doubt, because of honkai story we can admitting there is no coincidence in every single event everything was destined to happen and we can't just ignore all of this because some people don't want these worlds to be connected because they are for sure, thank you for this huge effort 🌷💜
This is one hell of a facinating video, definitely made me think alot more about stuff in both games. Keep up the good work and don't overdo it with your health.
Awe yeah! I just started playing through the HI3 story and definitely came to a lot of the same "outlandish" conclusions. (Okay, back to watching the video...)
If we consider that Teyvatians might be people from project ark, the first one being (the painter) and the second one (Honkai will) then... If irminsul is considered as a manifestation of the ark, with all the data coming and going through it (with people/things repeating just because of the human genome being there, and repeating patterns occur due to it), then isn't it easy to say that the ark may have created creatures which while human in appearance are a crossing with the honkai, creating gods? What if the reason why memories are so easily altered is not because of something mythical, but because of biological neuro transmitters that are in sync with the ark repository (Irminsul) so any change can easily change the data in the minds of hundreds if not thousands, millions etc? Nahida accesses the data of Irminsul through a panel not entirely dissimilar to as of a control panel of a ship? They said that Irminsul is at the heart of the world, but what if the actual irminsul is above the heavens? (As theorised with all stars being the fruits of irminsul etc) Just a theory in my mind.
So nahida coud be a hologram-pilot from the ark I think irminsoul/ark is a lot like imagenary tree since dains line of all life shoud be thankfull to nahida
As far as I'm aware, the Second Who Came is most likely the Abyss based on a certain descriptions I read somewhere, but it's very possible the Abyss can be Honkai given the shared similarity.
This is interesting. I don't really buy it since, like many trying to connect the two, it feels like casting as big of a net as possible to say eureka to anything that is slightly caught. Many of the characters that are said to be visually similar or based on Honkai I just don't see but then hear immediately after they have the same va, and now it just feels like grasping again. I heard Honkai is wrapping its main story soon, so hopefully, any connections the two have will be more apparent.
I is funny that one of the most concise and well explained Genshin x Honkai theory update would be from a channel called "The Hexenzirkel". But I'm still waiting for Hoyoverse to randomly drop a bomb that days that the Twins met The Captain and their crazy One Piece like crew of Brony, Irene and Khongmin somewhere in the Universe. Oh, also worth to say that another thing to reinforce the False Sky in Teyvat it's Griseo's dream in her limited time event. In that event, Griseo paint a sky on a canvas too create a new sky because "a monster" ate it (this monster being a fruit from her imagination), and that sky is very similar (to not say identical) to the Sky in Mona's second GAA domain
Finally! I'm so glad someone's decided to talk about the connections between Genshin and Honkai. Don't know if this will be mentioned in the video, since I'm only 9 minutes in, but Genshin Impact was almost called Honkai 4. :)
Where can I read more about title shift? If that’s the case, then abyssal energy might be honkai energy or simply the energy of the sea of quanta which seeks to devour worlds.
@@joshuavallente7057 I found it while I was looking through MiHoYo's wikipedia page. It's under their History, in the Genshin section. You'll find it in the third paragraph, with citation numbers 48 and 49. Citation 48 is a link to what looks like a Chinese article, and citation 49 links to a Chinese news video on bilibili. Sorry if this ends up being a double post, since I had to retype it because it wouldn't show up in the replies. Anyway, I hope this helps!
I'm a month late but I wanna say I loved the video and I also wanted to let anyone who reads this know to check the HI3 animated short "Because of You", and during the credits about 6 mins in you can see Griseo's parents Ato and Blanca, who are the expys for Ayato and Ayaka and try not to get too upset that they're a couple here and not siblings
6:22 This is incorrect. The fanbooks explicitly note that Herrschers do have Herrscher personalities. That Mei has a special case going on does not negate everyone else having a Herrscher personality (it doesn’t have to be a separate personality per the second fanbook definition, it just has to be a personality overcome with a desire for destruction). As early as 9-17, we see Himeko fight the Shadows of Desire, emanations of the Gem of Desire trying to overcome her mind with meaningless nonsense of living a good life instead of sacrificing herself for her student. As late as Sentience we have confirmation of this through her Honkai Operation Center video.
I still think the only reason people are so against "honkai and genshin are related" is because of the general vitriol both fandoms have towards each other.
You know what a good honkai cross-over to genshin will be? It will be a story quest, of an archon, Nahida specifically. In her 3rd or 4th or 6th story quest, we return to Sumeru only to witness that it was in chaos. We learned that Nahida did some meditation and won't wake up for a very long time, causing an uproar in the city. We somehow managed to salvaged what's left of the Akasha terminal and connected to Nahida's mind to try waking her up in her deep, long slumber. As we enter Nahida's mind, we saw ourselves in a vast desert made of ice, mountains of glaciers and floating giant dark crystals. We see Nahida near the horizon of our perspective, down on her knees, exhausted. In front of Nahida was a man, in black coat, with white hair and cold blue eyes, wielding a flaming greatsword. IT'S THE WILL OF STIGMATA, AND NAHIDA WAS TRAPPED IN THE STIGMATA DREAMSPACE FIGHTING HIM, *CAUSE SOMEHOW SHE'S RELATED TO THE KASLANAS AND MUST FACE THE WILL OF STIGMATA TO PROVE HERSELF* I know, it's an ambitious dream of mine, clunky and shtty as well, but her it will be funny if Hoyo just dropped that "Nahida was partly a Kaslana" lmao "Her hair has taint of green and her eyes are green as well, she can't be a Kaslana, dumbass" yeah yeah i know, well she's infused with the dendro(?) but still it will be entertaining if they pulled this off.
Imagine if we live in the Teyvat kind of world and the memory of Honkai was deleted from our Irminsul and the only things left untouched are Hoyos games - like Nahida s backup or fairytale books😂😂😂
Wow! I, literally, know NOTHING about Genshin. I've never even downloaded the app. But this seems a VERY compelling argument! These connections are fascinating! Well, done! #subbednbelled
![[GSI] Honkai and Genshin - Are they connected?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I0z6Vi_cvss/mqdefault.jpg)
![[2.7] Amphoreus: Memory of a Dead World - Honkai: Star Rail Theory](/img/n.gif)
I know we've been quiet for a while, but part of that was entirely because I just dedicated close to a month of my life to absolutely tearing through Honkai Impact's story. I also had to recover from a bout of Bronchitis that you can still kind of hear in my voice in this recording. Oof. Nothing worse than losing your voice for more than a week when your voice is your most important asset!!
Anyway, I hope you guys enjoy the video and we'll be back with more much sooner than last time ehehe.
--Ganymede
Thank you for the hard work, and great job on the video. Hope your recovering well!!
TrollDespair Final Graduation *Da Capo plays*
so looking forward to your theories on the most recent Dainsleif quest we just had!
Pretty sure the lack of control was due to Pardo sacrificing herself to open the route to the Will during Finality's last descent for Prometheus to take over and make sure that the Herrscher descents would be fixed in a certain sequence instead of being merely random, as well as the powers being the same as the previous era rather than some offshoots.
The new Sumeru location has one particular note within the Dahri ruind that ticks me off. It was left by a member of The Order of Sceptics, and what do you know? It says that "people shall rely on the power of evolution". Looks like they were either bringing honkai in, or did so unknowingly, which made them pay the price. The sign of Apaosha may just be honkai creeping in
little correction:
dr. mei's hypothesis was not that it wanted to ascend and merge with humanity, but rather to push human life to a point where they could be considered it's equal, this is shown in the fact that the game represents stigmata and herrscher power as opposing forces rather than two parts of the honkai. the entity trying to get them to ascend is the finality and not the will of honkai.
the finality's goal as stated by dr. mei is to embrace one of its kind, simply to know that it was not alone.
so how does the Will of Honkai relate to the Finality Cocoon? I'm not caught up with the Finality stuff yet
@@mon_moi Honestly very little is explained about either of those things. The God of Honkai got dethroned, however, by Dr. MEI using Prometheus to infiltrate it and become the new Will of Honkai. As for the Cocoon of Finality, nothing was explained of it in the later chapters, I might deep dive into the earlier chapters to see what it's about, but so far this is what Kiana says:
"The Cocoon is just a mirror of yours after all."
"How you embrace humanity is how the Cocoon embraces humanity."
@@mon_moi a character named Prometheus
@@hasnolhadiazmy ain't that Dr Mei's computer that somehow hacked the honkai? Why's the lore going in such a weird direction
@@mon_moi more of an ai that make sure the herrsher that appears doesn't change from the one they already know about from what i can remember
the moment Otto changed the Imaginary Tree, adding new branches, new future, new possibilities and by extension new worlds
right after that, "Mihoyo" changed into "Hoyoverse"
coincidence? I THINK NOT!
Mihoyo didn't change into Hoyoverse. The company is still Mihoyo what they changed is the name of their global publishing arm. And that change is ofc only for global the company and everything in china is still referred to as Mihoyo and not Hoyoverse.
@@venpasa8457 THANK YOU I've said this so many times to some many people, cause people somehow didn't get it's not a rebrand
Damn Otto killing who which remain and destroying the sacred timeline, was that a canon event?
Ever since the beginning of the game we are told that the world is Teyvat is one of many, and that the twins have visited several before, so the revelation that Teyvat exists somewhere in the Honkai multiverse is pretty logical.
However, the amount of parallelisms shown here is absolutely astounding and if not just a quirk of the creators being drawn to certain aesthetics and themes, has very cool implications for what we might see in the future of the game.
I am still in the first 25 minutes of this video but I wanted to THANK YOU for doing this. I have been very alone in my devouring of the Honkai story since I became a Genshin player. So much so that I have been noticing and seeing things for a very, very long time and not been able to get my friends to share my enthusiasm of all these little connections. In this first 25 minutes you've talked about things that friends brushed off so thank you for showing me my lore and connection seeking self was valid in seeing! Also, I love the audiobooks thank you so much for those 🥰
Honkai has won such a special place in my heart, and I feel like the two games compliment each other so well, they're like. Love letters haha! -- Ganymede
I also kind of wonder if the Twins outfits are actually battle suits that aid them during their travels. It would explain why they say that the outfit is important to them when Ayaka offers to buy them a kimono (besides sentimental value) and why the developers said that they have no plans on giving them a new outfit. Their survival and even power might actually depend on their clothes, and if their wings at the start of the game are part of their mantis form then maybe it also helps them maintain control over it.
Also there's K.K who is still a mystery however in GGZ Kevin's nickname is K.K, if Griseo is responsible for Teyvat then that might explain why K.K seems familiar with Teyvat and introduces the Traveler to this world.
Looking at the new weapon set in Genshin it sounds like P.O did win the war and the Goddess of Flowers even warns Deshret not to ask questions about them or its shades, with her disposition maybe the long war with the second actually warped Griseo's personality which could have infected the shades and she has no way of going back to the way she was. Perhaps the Traveler's ultimate goal is to save Griseo, which is why in Travail Dain tells them to prove that they can save her.
On another note although Venti is a Wendy xp I think there might actually be a few characters that are an xp of two or more characters, so with how mysterious Venti is I wonder if he'll end up having a few Elysia elements to him as far as story goes.
Ei is Raiden Mei xp (obvious)
Asmoday is HoV xp
Zhongli is Welt xp
Nahida is Theresa xp
Ppl speculate that Tsaritsa is Bronya xp and Pyro Archon is Murata Himeko xp
And as some know, Focalors is sort of a Seele xp
I feel like Alice may very well end up being an Elysia xp
@@quantumtheabyssalwolf950 Just to place this here: Saw a comment about how Guizhong (idk how to spell her name) could be sushang xp, and Zhongli as Fu hua xp, it was based on the CN voice line sushang would say during her ult, you can find this in HI3 Wallows stigma ice dps test, or something similar
@@Cosmic_Bald-e huge stretch ngl
@@Cosmic_Bald-ei think cloud retainer human form is fu hua expy there’s many similarities between the designs
in Honkai Impact we have Honkai, the mastermind behind all the destruction in the universe, possessing a person's body and giving them immense power that turns them into monsters.
in Genshin Impact we have Abyssal Energy, which is also a world destroyer, even possessing Gold/Rhinedottir which makes her lose control and with great power she becomes a threat to Teyvat.
in Honkai: Star Rail we have Stellaron, Cancer of all world that was planted by Aeon of Destruction to destroy a civilization, this Stellaron also possessed and corrupted Cocolia, turning her into a monster that threatens the planet.
I have a theory. What if Stellaron and Abyssal Energy were Honkai? Think of it this way, the Honkai we know is the Honkai created for the Honkai Impact Universe, whereas in other Universes in the vast Imaginary Tree, Honkai comes with a different form, different powers, but is still a major threat, and is capable of turning someone into a monster. . Even with all that diversity, they still come from the same thing, which created everything in this Hoyoverse Fictional World.
*And What if... All this will lead to something bigger than we ever known in the Hoyoverse... The big bad is out there.*
👀
Sry for the late reply but the Outer gods are still Outside the Tree . The tree itself is the Body of Zeus who was killed by Azathoh eons ago
@@kevinbaumhoer7359 bro it's like 1 year ago, I already know better than was
Pausing the video real quick to say that THIS is the video I've been looking for regarding the connections between Genshin and Honkai. I've been playing both games for quite some time now, the lore being the most intriguing part to me, but I was never able to fully grasp how they could be connected despite trying to pierce things together for myself. Thank you SO MUCH for this. Enjoying every second so far
5:48 regarding the similarities: Though kiana isn’t the Herrscher of void anymore in this point of Honkais Story.. Her Herrscher of Finality Outfit has the same three star shape on her left shoe
Hofi is hardly similar to that tough
Not to mention how stupidly rushed her battlesuit was
@@kyarumomochi5146 I have absolutely no idea on that one so I can’t back it up
@@kyarumomochi5146 it wasn’t rushed it was already planed out a long time but they changed the design
@@mattz2021 it was absolutely rushed
The entirety of moon arc was speeden up to release honkai star rail
It doesnt take having an eye to see this
@@kyarumomochi5146 I disagree though. While it was an obnoxiously huge info dump sometimes it wasn't rushed.
Since Dvalin was shown together with Fallen Rosemary Teyvat might be part of the Captainverse which is just full of insanity but crucially that does include a group that is frequently visiting different worlds and Alice might be part of that group.
Design wise there are a lot of similarities between Fallen Rosemary and Lisa. Both of their ultimate abilities are based on a lantern and both excel at setting up a large aoe attack by comboing their other attacks and skills in certain ways.
Did someone also notice that Scaramouche is much more similar to Mei than Ei? Like literally his character design seems to mimic Mei's designs.
YES!
Scara really does looks like Danzai Spectromancer Mei
Kiana too. His banner came out on Kiana's birthday, and he is the first character in Genshin that able to fight mid-air (same as Kiana). He's a puppet without a heart, Kiana is a clone, a test subject
I think they're intertwined
@@projectvaluka if you look at it a bit more, scaramouche's boss fight has extremely similar theme as when mei became the herrscher of thunder, where, scaramouche represented mei while traveller represented beneras.
Ei is litterally Reverse Mei tough
An issue with Griseo being the Primordial one is that she doesn't actually have any powers of creation. She is a psychic mantis and her abilities are purely psychological. She only has the power of creation within the Elysian Realm because that is a virtual space affected by the minds of the flame chasers.
- If we add in honkai 2 lore, there's the possibility that Griseo could become a herrscher, and gain the ability to create with imaginary power. Which could honestly be kind of terrifying.
- If we throw in the sky people and how they look identical to the monsters in Griseo's paintings, that race may have captured Griseo, and used her paintings as inspiration for their evolution. Griseo may actually simply be the creator of the Sky People, or responsible for them seeking out humanity.
- Griseo's metamorph was never shown, nor what it could do.
- One other thing is that there's a 'space' inside a herrscher core similar to stigma space, which is another neat thing if Griseo became a herrscher, or had a divine key in the Ark to tinker with. She could create all of Teyvat inside that core.
@@rmelzhim6033 With the power of baseless speculation everything is possible. Let's just have her become an Aeon and god of the universe.
I don't understand how she wrecked an entire city with a painting if it's a psychological power
@@battlecast9202 Then you didn't pay attention to the story. She didn't wreck a whole city she created a painting based on Kalpas that caused so much internal chaos that it brought the city to the brink of destruction. Here is the actual dialogue from the game that mentions it. It is from Raven's about Griseo (1) conversation.
Raven: It’s just rumors, but… I’ve heard that although her art can be easily destroyed, it has some sort of effect on the minds of those who see it.
Raven: And whatever that effect is will be determined by who she was last with.
Raven: That’s what Eden told me. I heard that art that Griseo did after spending some time with Kalpas brought the whole city to the brink of destruction from internal chaos.
Mei: Really… So, since the Elysian Realm is a space constructed by people’s minds, she can create life-like monsters here?
Raven: That’s right. But they aren’t all monsters. To be more accurate…, they are the manifestation of a person’s self-perception. We’ve seen those before. they likely belonged to Kosma.
@venpasa8457 in my defense the fire moth storyline is legitimately a novel lmao
So I just had a thought. Otto created future branches where Kallen lives. What does that cause? The sustainer is obviously related 'somehow' to Kiana, since they are visually very similar. What if when Kallen survives, the betrayals of the people and learning the truth causes her to lose it a bit, and become the Sustainer. The problem is time in Genshin doesn't behave like on the tree. Unless Otto messing with creating timelines ON the tree causes instability, and that leads to Genshin. It's a reach, I know. I just feel like the timelines Otto creates haven't really been explored too well yet. But who knows. I think we don't quite have all the info to draw a conclusion yet.
The only thing I've got to go on is that The Imaginary tree CHANGED after Otto touched it, and it looked more like Irminsul from Genshin after he did his alterations sooooo... maybe that's a little crumb to go on? Not sure how useful it is. :oa
to quote homu labs: "welcome to honkai bit-"
16:30 The Honkai is basically Eldritch/Lovecraftian Socialism. They just want humanity as a wholento join the Big Brother in the end.
26:58 SU entered the hibernation chamber with KEVIN and HUA. It was only after the failure of Project EMBER and the losing contact with Project ARK did SU start with Project VALUKA. SU observed different worlds for a couple thousand years rather than 50,000 years.
Su did not enter Hibernation with Kevin and Hua. In the "last dream" recollection while Kevin and Hua are preparing to enter Hibernation Kevin asks Hua where Su is and she replies that he isn't coming. Also in the second Key manga, Kevin asks Su what he has observed over the last 50k Years for project Valuka.
I'll be real honest this video makes me feel very vindicated knowing that someone else caught alot of the stuff that I thought was odd between the similarities of both games and how it always bothered me that people just refused to see how much they are linked together. Side note some things that I noticed that could just be me is stuff like how for one I think rhinedotter is the mobius expy and that the sumeru samsara arc lined up right around the same time the adam arc with theresa in honkai.
Finally someone bold enough to say that "There's connection between Honkai & Genshin" I'm tired of people telling me that there is zero connection between the games, since it's crystal clear that the devs make these reference and connection for a reason
Wait there are ppl who say that they have no connection ?!!?
@@rulerofmy_heartz Yeah, mostly from new Genshin player that thinks that if there's connection, they need to play the whole Honkai Impact 3rd game, which is not the case. Either way the that kind of mentality is just bugs me, like saying there is no such thing as Marvel Universe
@@ninosanjaya Hell I've only play Genshin for a few months since Ayaka's 200+ days rerun back in 2.6 and know the bare minimum wage about Honkai yet I'm a huge fan of the theory that they're connected
@@rulerofmy_heartz We need new players like you tbh. I'm veterean Honkai & play Genshin from day 1, so I'm fan of all of these theory. I always think Mihoyo to have such a big brain move when it comes to their plot. Sadly not everyone is a fan with this kinda stuff.
@@ninosanjaya Not really related to our topic but I've seen a lot of Genshin characters vs Honkai characters videos and then there's me who's obsessed with the idea of characters from both games getting along and becoming friends
i was wondering where the hexenzirkel went and wow, seems like the wait has been worth it. Love long videos
I absolutely just have to say thank you we need more people covering honkai lore there is just so little on UA-cam!
really hope you're doing ok! absolutely love your videos, please don't stop making them! very few people make such good quality videos!
1:01:32 I wouldn't out Cloud Retainer as Fu Hua, I would say Kazuha is more akin to being her counterpart at Genshin, specially because of their hair. And Dain can't be Otto's counterpart too, the world isn't burning yet.
Fifteen minutes in and I'm just in awe how good this was written.
The Hoyoverse lore will still blow up when Honkai Star Rail arrives since Welt Yang is in there and has also dropped that the Honkai is but a small being than the Aeons that are featured in HSR. There is Aeon of Finality that moves through time.
Honkai story is literally the best fiction that I have ever experienced from any form of media, I have some hope that genshin will reach that level one day, sumeru was certainly a step up, hope you had fun experiencing the beautiful story and welcome new captain!
This was fantastically documented. Thank you so much for taking time to put it all together in very digestible format. Like an outsider looking in, I have been very curious about Honkai Impact and it's connections to Genshin Impact but lack the time to go through it. Thank you so much for making this video.
There are a lot of connections. Genshin’s theme of gnosticism and Celestia preventing progress on Teyvat all allude to themes currently well tackled in Honkai.
There are a lot of connections. Genshin’s theme of gnosticism and Celestia preventing progress on Teyvat all allude to themes currently well tackled in Honkai.
As a Honkai player who started Genshin because of miho....Hoyoverse, I'm glad more people are getting interested in the game
I think there’s a reason why Honkai hasn’t explored that much about Griseo. We don’t even know what beast was injected into her. The abilities she has shown so far give little knowledge as to what she possibly could do, especially in AHR form. Imagine her in AHR and as an adult.
If newyear anime count, her Honkai beast is jellyfish. And some of them are known immortal.
I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the newest Traveler quest, especially because you specifically mentioned the Loom of Fate. I really hope that you will continue to make Honkai/Genshin videos because this is by far the best one I’ve seen. You guys deserve way more subs! Excellent analysis as always
Another fantastic video. I just don't have the time to play Honkai, so having those that do connect the dots to help give me an idea of the greater scope is wonderful.
Hope you are feeling better with the bronchitis and I look forward to seeing your next video!
"only through eternity are you closest to the heavenly principles" -Raiden Ei
If Inazuma stays the same then we will exist forever....
sounds like something someone trying to prevent a Honkai Impact would say
Do you plan on making a part 2 to this video addressing the recent lore drops in genshin, the current arc in Hi3, and the tidbits we know about Elio and the Aeon of Finality, Terminus from HSR (+ Acheron/Raiden Bosenmori Mei and the multiverse nature of HSR’s planets)
One thing to note is that otto’s definition of honkai as a test is not necessarily true, it’s just one of the many hypotheses humans have made regarding the definition of honkai.
Another hypothesis is that honkai’s attacks on the world are a form of ‘embrace’. At that time humans still didn’t really know what honkai was.
the cocoon of finality looks almost identical to ”marana’s avatar” that we fought in the aranyaka quest
This was a fascinating and thorough deep dive, with new lore bits I didn't know. How did you realise Enka was Delphi?
I've always hyptothesized that either Genshin is sub-Honkai somehow, or that it was the conglomeration of several dead worlds kept stable in the Sea of Quanta via a network of poweful artifact. A fragile world only stable as long as the leylines, the visions, the Statues and the Gnosii do their jobs as they are supposed to. Tying that idea together with the idea of the Arc...
Also, does anyone have any info on the Owls of Teyvat? Because I've got the Dragonspine Glider, the odd description of King Deshret and the Seelie in 'the Lay of Al-Achmar' and the walls of Tsurumi Island behind which we can find the Star-Shaped Gems. Enough to be certain that there's something to that, but not enough to have even the bones of a theory.
In the in-game book that's part of the Byakuyakoku Collection (from Enka obvs) "Hydrological Studies in Byakuyakoku" it mentions that the city was known as Delphi in ancient times, likely before it sank!
"n the earliest times, this place was called Delphi, the land of snakes. This name did not change even after the arrival of Watatsumi Omikami. Ancient art depicts the scaleless serpent as "Ouroboros," and the coral-adorned serpent as "Orobashi.""
I hope that the sinner isn't the will of honkai and corrupting the sibling becoming the herscher in teyvat version
!!!!! im so happy you made this!!! i’ve recently gotten into honkai bc of star rail coming out soon and this is exactly the kind of video i was needing thank you so much!!❤ i love ur content!
I'm a huge fan of classic turn-based games. Grew up on them! So I also, can't wait for Star Rail. Alas, didn't make it into beta but I plan on playing it when it releases! :)
Personal harebrained theory::
Ive never played honkai and really dont have the means to (i wish they would release everything on psn) but i would like to think since everything is a cycle teyvat is where it all began.. likw the tree of life and irminsul being the tree that feeds the universe thats why the firmament was created to hide that away from the honkai because any life would be something that could become humanity . And the sibiling has turned into a honkai and is trying to destroy the origins of life its self..to put an end to the entire cycle and truth of the world/universe
You're not too far off from my own most tin-foil-hatted theory on this. The newest HI3 story which will end the current storyline and progress into an entirely new phase with different main characters etc. etc. ended with saving a world created by a deity from the "abyss" in the sea of quanta... the world was artificially created by her, its inhabitants meant to serve as vessels for the digital data containing the souls/memories of her long-dead planet's people. Only... they kind of kept becoming sentient and doing their own thing, so she wiped it clean to try again over and over.
She also left behind... seven 'representatives' to watch over this place, that were clones of her. She created this planet from power stolen from an ancient super-powered space ship called the Ark... it was named Phosphorous and Hesperus (Like in Enkanomiya). So the evidence is definitely stacking up on that one. (and that just scratches the surface as an explanation lol)
@@projectvaluka omg I really appreciate the lore "dump" I've been on a whole genshin thing this week ( I usually play like one week a month and switch around to my other games )and have been watching your videos all week and theyre kinda what made me come to that conclusion! along with my own research in game 😊
I finally finished watching this behemoth of a lore video -in a good way! Thank you so much for covering all these parallels and connections between Honkai and Genshin. I tried playing Honkai but I found it too confusing, so I'm glad that you made this. Also can I just say that my brain exploded 🤯
I can't wait to see if your theories and predictions for the origin of Teyvat are confirmed in the future!
As a longtime honkai player I really appreciate the time and depth of effort you put into this, and you brought up several things I either hadn't known or thought about, especially with reference to common design elements (one particular thing of note to me was the repeated pattern of the three four-point stars that comes up in the genshin starting cutscene, and appears many times in honkai e.g. when durandal travels through the sea of quanta in the London Holiday manga). Great analysis and a good way explanation of why a good number of honkai players think genshin can fit into that world.
You know according to Honkai lore which says about ALL possible worlds being attacked by the Honkai. It means that All worlds including our own Earth (aka IRL) is canonically apart of the Honkai multiverse that is going down the same path of history that we are. Which is scary because ( According to the Many worlds interpretation of the Multiverse) we could unknowingly be apart of the Honkai verse without realizing it. Forgot existential crisis, we could have to deal with The Honkai in the future
in Honkai, first thing to exists is the Sea of Quanta. the Sea came first, giving birth to the Imaginary Tree but both is trying to expand in their own way while overtaking the other. its an endless war and rivalry
Imaginary Tree
the "Imaginary Tree" is the source of ALL life. the Tree is most likely based on Ygdrasil with its 9 worlds/ Realms but in Honkai ver, its infinite worlds
if we see it as tree however, a single branch from this tree is a universe & a leaf is a world. the Trunk as the main timeline seperated into possibilities as branches.
but how about the root? well its purpose is too "Drink" the Sea of Quanta
overtime, this tree will get bigger, taller and wider. as these happens, the tree becomes heavy, older and wither. the phenemenon known as the "Honkai" acts as the Tree's Gardener, pruning the branches, removing the bad ones and at the same time nurtures it.
how the Honkai do these? well they "test" the leaf, appearing in many forms as its very adaptable but its also limited to the leaf's knowledge. for example manifesting as a Natural Disaster, a virus, a disease. whatever that is a potential threat towards the Humanity, as a test. Honkai use the Humanity knowledege against the Humanity.
its also a flaw of the Honkai as it cannot grow by itself and can only acts as a counter to humanity. this is one of the reason why, when Civilzation become more advance, so does the Honkai gets more creative in their way eliminate Humanity i.e Monsters, Zombies, superhero, Evil gods that can destroy the world... who came up with these ideas? Humanity themselves, they create fictions, entertainments etc and Honkai take inspirations
this is to ensure, Only the strongest worlds survives and helps the Tree to grow
the failed products, that fail worlds falls into the Sea of Quanta, abandoned by the Tree and Honkai. this world is called Bubble Universe. Just like a bubble, they are fragile and unstable
Humanity found a way to travel along the Tree's Branches, allowing them to visit other worlds and even to the Roots to explores numerous bubble universes
Sea of Quanta
Sea of Quanta, you can view it as the trash, junkyard, the abyss, the void. it swallows everything and trying to expands itself further and one day, eat the Tree whole. Sea of Quanta & Imaginary Tree is in a symbiotic relationship with each other. not much is known about the Sea but its inhabitant, Known as Quantum Shadows is similar to a Honkai Beasts in appearance but looks translucents, and can exit & enter Dimensions. as if they are Ghost that can freely move between the Physical world and the Spiritual world.
in a positive perspective: when one thrives, the other flourished. one cant exist without the other as they feed on what the other is producing. the Sea is watering the tree helping it to grow, while the Tree gives them food (the bubble universes) to absorbs
science and logic doesnt exist in the Sea, time flows constantly and sometimes overlaps, overwrites and contradicts each other. Everything Has/ Have not/ will /never happen and sometime all of that at once. A Bubble Universe is free but at the same time dying, slowly being absorb by the Sea. the Sea houses all kind of possibilites, even those that never happen in the Tree. because Bubble Universe can exist of out nowehre and appear suddenly in the Sea.
even though a bubble universe is already in the Sea. it can still survive and be saved/ rescued by external means, if they can found a way to connect them to the Tree's Roots. although rare but by some miracle, a bubble universe can even live independently. not influenced by the Sea, the Tree or the Honkai
Herscherr
a Herscherr is a combination of both Honkai & human. the result of when the Honkai is trying to directly control one individual among the humanity, this is because human is the strongest form in that world and Honkai have high compatibility with these being. a Herscherr could be exclusive to that certain Branch only. in other branches and leaf, a Herscherr may not exist at all.
what makes a Herscherr powerful is that the Honkai is "finally" sentient and capable of doing more than just watching & waiting for result, accelerating the doom of the world. meanwhile Honkai usually its just a force of nature.
The Main story in the grand scheme of things
in "Honkai Impact 3rd" story, basically its a story of a leaf that refuse to die, fighting off the Honkai, denying the natural selection. even forcing the Tree itself to be involved in this matter
what we know is that, in the Hoyoverse. everything is a constant, a cycle. full of rebirth and reincarnations. you cant seem to escape fate. although each worlds is different, they still parallel each other. especially evident with the characters appearance and their conclusions. in the HI3rd-verse, the previous characters appears again after the world reset. 2 main example of this is Himeko and SAKURA. dont want to get too spoilery but they end up the same way as their previous life but how they get there is different.
Hmmm maybe the Imaginary Tree is a Database, full of Character_Assets, Model, Texture, Title, Name etc. and each Branch/ leaf takes the Generic Asset from the Database to produce their own Model in their own world (game)
thats why the character appears to be copy pasted in terms of design, across all the Hoyoverse games
what happen after this? Idk really. Maybe Honkai finally being sentient after being in contact with human, and want to take over control of the Imaginary Tree going against their Master
or Humanity prevails and takes control of the Honkai instead.... using their newfound power to eliminate Honkai/ use as a power source from the their own Branch, or even the whole Tree itself. a new Version of the "Sky People"
Ho boy, the Sky Poeple is another deep and convulted rabbit hole to go through, not to mention the Sugars too........lets skip that
but what about the Tree and the Sea, perhaps it will never happen. or one day the Sea Swallow the Tree or the Tree absorbs all the Sea
Honkai, the humanity worse fearsome natural disasters.
This video has scratched a deep itch I had (and still have) with regards to the world of Hoyoverse. On top of the lore that's connecting within the Hoyoverse, we should also see it as a celebration of otaku fandom. Tech Otakus Save The World - that's Mihoyo's motto until recently. Evangelion references everywhere in Honkai - their first Honkai game is named "Fly Me to the Moon". Honkai Impact 3rd references the Third Impact. The erosion of body and mind brings to mind Guilty Crown, Code Geass and its equivalents. On the Genshin side, there's the BotW reference as well as many pop and anime references in the Achievements section. Even Hoyoverse as a name, while at first glance would seem as a nod to the metaverse craze a while back, feels more like a Nasuverse reference (think FGO, and to a lesser extent, the Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai worlds, named after the creator, Kinoko Nasu). In any case, I'm looking forward to the conclusion of the story of Teyvat in Genshin, which hopefully is just the first act of many in the world of Hoyoverse.
I'm listening to this just after finding out in leaks of 3.5 that Khaenri'ah is apparently under Sumeru. Oh, that we're getting a bunch of info about the hexenzirkel most likely from Alice.
its interesting because genshin has a lot of direct ties to gnosticism and a lot of this theory in itself makes a lot of paralels to the part of the story that led to our earth or in this case genshins creation
what a pleasant coincidence, i've just started playing honkai recently and i've also been binging the story for the past week or so xD
I'm going to leave this here. This is testimony from one of the ACTUAL sky people in Genshin! He's a shade NPC in Enkanomiya you can talk to at anytime.
Aberaku(Abrax): "When the sky kingdom crashed into the bottomless depths, the people were scoured by dragons, and thus did I - yes, 'twas I - begin building the Helios to save us all from our fate."
This is why Enkanomiya floats in Genshin, it is pieces of that sky kingdom that took the population with it, probably during the second crown war. And probably the God that put Enkanomiya in a slow time bubble was Istoroth. It was the first "snake god" that helped them to survive before Orobashi showed up to free the populations from their depths.
Also Kazuha being a gender-bent Phoenix Psychic-type Fu Hua, it pretty dope.
52:30
so the bubble that kinda encompasses teyvat, is infact literally to protect the inside from honkai... huh.
which means traveller was a thought to hopefully be able to take down the honkai if it ever occured
55:17 So much coming out in genshin in 4.2 related to the gnoses and dragons and the primordial sea supports this, and it would make sense considering the sustainer is trying to, quote, "end the arrogation of humanity" which is probably synonymous with humanity trying to rebel against celestia without realizing that maybe celestia is trylng to help them escape the samsara
Heavenly Principles = Ark stability system and the sustainer is actually trying to help humanity perhaps. She captured/repelled the twins, didn't kill them. Cursed the khaenrians, didn't wipe them out. "Sustainer"🤔
I knew that Genshin was a branch of the Imaginary Tree without looking for proof, I was at this conclusion on my narrative instincts... It certainly doesn't help me as a fiction enjoyer that I'm lazy to an extreme, and find the task of looking right the hell in front of me to be too much of a burden to bear, but I mean that's part of what made your hour-long video essay deep-dive such a good watch for me. Never stop bro, this is peak
Thank you so much for making this video! As a beloved honkai and genshin fan and lore enjoyer I honestly commend you for making a video like this given that a lot of the lore communities of both games are so scared of connecting the two together. Really well made!
A really well done and deep dive into the lore of a 7 year old game. As a player who has been enjoying honkai since 2016, I'm impressed by the way you presented Ideas in a short amount of time. That project ark theory is a solid argument which focuses on the main mission of that said project. I just feel bad for grise tbh, imagine drifting in space for possibly 10,000 years or so all alone on a ship with no idea that your mother figure along with the friends you have grown up with are all dead.
Man, I still remember Honkai's storyline had a major rewrite at one point. If you've been at the game for 6 years, surely you still remember a time when the game was still explicitly a continuation of GGZ, complete with the cast being in a To Aru style school for the gifted valkyries that trained its students to fight Honkai invasions across the world, with Fu Hua being an actual class president, Himeko being the homeroom teacher, Mei being the Valedictorian, Bronya being the smart one, and Theresa being the principal (The school is currently part of a flooded city and has been that way ever since the beginning, we only ever see it complete in memory segments and events that involve the city.)
I remembered in Albedo's story quest when he said that when the time comes that he will destroy "this" world, will the traveler be ABLE TO STOP HIM gives me more things to ponder
Awesome video!! :D Definitely subscribed for more A honkai and genshin player here!
Tbh, your video really makes me want to dive into Honkai. I have no time though (hello college) Thanks for your video, it's very clear! Though i have no ability's to see how far fetched your theories are xD
Thanks for the work, it was interesting! The intertwining of destinies and stories is at the heart of miHoYo games. But unraveling this interweaving is very difficult! Hope your health is good!
44:33 the title gave me chills, having the new archon quest in mind, that's so interesting
Thank you for an informative video! Also it's interesting how Mei said to kiana: "If rescuing you is a sin, I will gladly become a sinner." And then you see the trailer from Elysian realm where Griseo is painting Mei in chains. Mai is in chains just like a sinner in genshin.
1. Irminsul was created by the unknown god (zhongli is living proof because he lived as a dragon sovereign before the heavenly principles arrived in teyvat and he still remembers Rukkhadevata). So it makes sense for characters to resemble honkai counterparts since the irminsul tree, what creates life, artifacts and almost everything inteyvat (you can actually see this in game, things that release boue sparkles when they die are going to the irminsul tree and when you get artifacts you can actually see the sparkles coming to you) is made up of the unknown god's memories of humanity or crafted based on said memories.
• Griseo's dolmain looks like the genshin wish screen.
• 32:45 This is baseless especulation so dont listen to me but That guy looks a LOT like Zhongli's dragon form. Then again, zhongli is originally from teyvat so this makes no sense, im just simping ~♡
• 36:40 guys, i think we just found our cup shade. The 4 shades of the primordial one are based on the artifacts you get, the circlet being the primordial one. Paimon seems to be the sands and this could totally be who the cup is based on (again just speculation based on a picture and also i've never played honkay so idk ^^)
(Ill go updating as i watch along the video and make more possible connections)
• Haven't finished the video so not sure but Honkai doesn't seem to have an Alice. Alice is literally the female version of dain, however she is not bound by irminsul and she does everything dain can't in that sense. (like she introduces Scaramouche bc dain wouldn't remebwr who he is). She is a huge and a bt overlooked part of the lore and its interesting that she doesn't have a honkai counterpart (or it could be Vill V and Alice is just a code name or smth along those lines, since Alice is also a genious inventor) (also could have something to do with 42:19, Alice pink hair??) (42:35 oh... ^^' im not deliting thisnwhole thing tho) (OK THIS MADE SENSE ALL OF A SUDDEN. her name is Elysia, and guess which name is pronunced the exact same, Alicia aka Alice)
• 54:40 Traveller dat u?
• 56:18 OMG THATS WHY THEY DESTROYED KAHENRI'AH, they were not dabbling in abyssal power but Literally trying to use honkai energy to power their machinery bc they were jealous they were not "chosen ones" as dain says, and couldn't manipulate elememtal energy, thus getting concerningly close to triggering the honkai and needing to be exterminated.
• 57:03 Literally Zhongli.
so..i know there's a lot of back and forth like "oh but if that's true you'd have to play HI3 to get Genshin and they're supposed to be standalone games"" which i could understand, although i think it just deepens the experience but
there's this reoccuring thing in esotoric religions and Gnosticism in particular, where because everything emanates from the Pleroma ("the fullness of God" in the true sense of the origin of all that is), things tend to repeat themselves and serve as clues to the nature of existence. so even if Griseo didn't go off into space and become Teyvat's creator deity in the sense of a linear plot, it's likely this what was intended anyway.
A visual that intrigued me while watching this was the red feather/plume. It has the same shape as the feathers associated with Venti/Barbatos who is one of 2 gods of Mondstat (Istaroth being forgotten over Time ironically); and I saw a post on Twitter a few days back showing just how red the anemo visions are when inverted in color. It's about the same shade of red as the feather in the clip which is in a Honkai fight. Obviously there's a lot of bigger symbolism connecting these 2 games as a whole; but that small detail really makes me think that there's a lot more to Barbatos, Istaroth and Mondstat as a whole than we might think especially given the inscription around Venti's statue..
(Haven't watched yet because classes but) I absolutely love Honkai and the potential connections between it and Genshin always seem to take over my brain so I'm so happy to see you guys making a theory about this!
I think you're close, but not quite there: Note that Teyvat is another bubble world on the Imaginary Tree, same as _HI3_ 's world, and many others, including that of _Honkai Star Rail_ . _HSR_ is notable because it has both a younger, scientist Murata Himeko (in _HI3_ she was a scientist before her father was killed and she decided to become a Valkyrie to fight the Honkai), and another space-bound train. _HI3_ showed us one type of use for the Divine Key _Cosmic Juggernaught_ , and with _HSR_ we will see another possible use, via the _Astral Express_ . This would rather directly indicate that the people of different worlds could find different ways to use things like the Divine Keys, and even different ways to execute the different parts of Project SAVE (Stigma, Ark, Veruka, Ember).
In _HI3_ , Su meditated and used _Cosmic Juggernaught_ to peer into other bubble universes. But in _HSR_ , the Astral Express crew will be visiting other words directly. In _HI3_ , Project ARK's ships are single-person vessels. But what if another bubble world's Project ARK ships were colony ships, capable of housing and raising an entire world's worth of an ecosystem, an ark in its most literal and functional sense.
What if, in this bubble world that created the colony ships as their Project ARK, they determined that simply housing genomes in cryosleep wasn't enough. They wanted to train humanity to be able to fight the Honkai, and so they created a training ground with a false sky in their colony ship or ships. The idea would be to give as many people as possible the ability to resist, fight, and defeat the Honkai as possible.
We know that we don't know the criteria that Celestia uses for granting Visions, only that they are the ones responsible for doing so. The theory is that once a person's ambition becomes great enough, they are acknowledged by the gods and the world, and are granted a Vision. But then what about Klee and other younger people who have been granted Visions? What was their great ambition that was acknowledged? We just don't know. Another thing we do know is that every Vision bearer or Allogene or Genshin has the potential to be further acknowledged by Celestia and gain a Gnosis, becoming an Archon. Archons have less dependence on their Gnosis than Genshin have on their Visions, since they do not lose their memories associated with their ambitions if they lose their Gnosis, and their personalities do not suffer a change. Both a Vision and a Gnosis seem to correspond to a certain level of elemental power, however there is something else to consider: the Twins' relation to the world and the Elements.
Here I will refer to the twin who travels with Paimon as the Traveler, and the twin who ends up with the Abyss as the Abyss Sibling. The Abyss Sibling seems to have the notable ability to use Abyssal elemental power, similar to how Dainsleif can also do this, and nowhere on their person can one spot a Vision, and although they could be carrying their own Gnosis, I doubt they have one given their positions as exiles. I think it is important to note their Abyssal power as another element, though, outside of the Seven that correspond to the Archons, because of the way Tartaglia was able to interact with it, and because the Abyss Order was able to charge one of the Barbatos statues with it. As for the Traveler, they can resonate with different Statues of the Seven to gain access to a lesser version of their elemental power. While gameplay only allows us to use one element at a time, during our battle with Childe, we are shown to be able to use more than one at once. At the same time, Miko has intimated that while we have a goal, finding our lost sibling, it is not strong enough to be called an ambition that could be recognized by Celestia, and result in our being granted a Vision or Gnosis. But I would not put it past Hoyo to have that be part of our endgame story. I believe that the journey will be the stepping stones upon which the Traveler establishes for themselves an ambition strong enough to be recognized, that at the crucial moment, they will not only regain their full power, and together with their sibling be able to use all of the elements, but also gain a Vision or a Gnosis. And this power will grant them both the advantage they needed but didn't have in their inevitable rematch against the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles.
And here we circle back to the beginning, while also peering through to what lies underneath. In the beginning cutscene, the Sustainer delivers quite the beatdown on the fully-powered Twins, trapping one completely and the other incompletely. It is later shown in the Abyss Sibling's flashback that the Sustainer's cubes were practically everywhere marking the destruction of Khaenr'iah. We also know that Celestia sent the Archons to deal with Khaenr'iah originally, but sending in the Sustainer as well would seem to indicate that the Archons did not or were not able to complete the assignment Celestia had given them. So the Sustainer finished the job. This would seem to indicate that the Sustainer is more powerful than the Archons of that time, and the Sustainer is based on God Kiana or the Herrscher of the Void. And it would stand to reason that Celestia, as the administrator of Teyvat, would want their enforcer to be pretty powerful.
This would also seem to indicate that even the Archons are some ways away from being powerful enough to take on the Herrschers of Honkai, and indeed, in _HI3_ 's gameplay, there are many Valkyries who can be considered to be stronger than the Archons, including the Herrschers. If Celestia wants Teyvat prepared for the inevtable war, in the case they cannot continue to hide from the Will of Honkai, the Genshin would all need to be trained up. And there are already mechanisms in place to train and test Genshins' strength in Teyvat, because the last thing guarding the Ascension Tests is a being of pure elemental energy, the Electro Hypostasis, simply designated with the Hebrew letter 'Aleph.' Other elemental Hypostasis of mysterious origin, and with unknown reason, dot Teyvat. They just seem to be there, waiting for challenges who will then restore the leyline and get some materials, mostly in the form of some seed, like Sumeru or simply a seed of growth, since they can be used as Ascension Materials. It's also curious they are designated with Hebrew letters, since the only other place in _Genshin_ to use Hebrew so far is the name of the world itself. But... this is a big reach, and could turn out to have other reasons.
I still don't know why Celestia would send out the Sustainer the way they did, in an action that ended up spawning the Abyss Order, with the lost sibling as its head. The Abyss Order has the stated objective of destroying all humanity, just as is the stated objective of the Honkai. But unlike the Abyss Order, Otto seems to have been convinced the Honkai are also responsible for nurturing and testing humanity, to judge their worthiness. The Abyss Order has no such objective, and so they are a corrupted form of Honkai... but also still a form of training for the Genshin, if you want to see Teyvat as a training ground as well as an ark.
So if I look at Teyvat as another bubble universe's Project ARK, all of this seems possible. As for Griseo, given the resemblance between her creations on the Elysian Realm and the Sky People's scouts in APHO, I can't help concluding that the Sky People might have captured Griseo, and are using her art as inspiration for their scouts' forms. Given that, though, I have no idea why Mei in APHO does not give any sign of recognizing these forms, since she fought them many times in the Elysian Realm. It seems unlikely she would have forgotten any of the Flame-Chasers eight or nine years later. I think it would be interesting, though, if Griseo was alive but captured, since this could lead to a mission to rescue her, and even though Mei has had experience with a sim of her, she and Griseo have never actually met. So this Griseo wouldn't have the part of her combo attack where she says "Paintbrush, obey me!"
You seem to have a misconception about what the Term bubble universe/world means. That term is reserved specifically for fallen leaves and other artificial worlds that have fallen into SoQ. It is not a term that can be used for worlds still attached to the tree. Which is what the HI3 universe is.
sry for the late replay the only thing whats wrong is the Sea of Quanta only Exites because of the Tree , as it is Revealed in GGZ what the Tree is in truth Zeus or rather his dead Body and the Leafs are his Blood . befor it there was only Honkai and the Outer gods ( Yes Cuthull is part of the Honkai verse Azatoh was the one who killed zeus in the first place ) the Sea of Quanta came into being to destroy The Tree or rather to decompose Zeus corpse
Maybe you can connect Eden and Gold as artists? Gold's method of creation is like Albedo's... drawing/painting. Which by the way... Griseo may as well be the greatest Khemia user of all time.
Thanks for the vid. As lore enjoyer, I can't stop watching this theory videos to keep my brain active and my mind open.
As far as I know, indeed at first Genshin was actually made as part of Honkai universe (there was that one clip that shows the devs confirm it). Also there're some of the materials in the beta that shows :
1. About one book where the writer dreamed about civilization facing off their doom but 13 courageous souls challenged this catastrophe although they still fail in the end. Back then we still don't know the significance of this until we got The Flamechaser in Honkai.
2. The introduction of the twins written by K.K. In one of the early clip about the making of Elysian Realm arc, K.K named shown as one member of Flamechaser with Brahma as their Beast DNA factor. But none of the Flamechaser has this in their bio. Until after Elysian Realm arc ended that apparently, yes, K.K is a member of Flamechaser and yes, we knew the fellow quite well (spoiler for the Moon arc in Honkai).
Take it with a grain of salt, that indeed Genshin was made as "extension" in Honkai universe *at first* but nowadays? Welp, the only clue that enough so far was that in Genshin, the sky is false.
I really like your theory as a honkai player I really appreciate the hard work you put on to this. If it's okay I like to share some of the information Ive gathered to help with this theory and make it even more interesting
Let's start with Elysia founding member of the 13th flamechasers, Miss Pink Elf adored by many and the first herrscher of the previous era (PE) but what makes her special to other herrschers is that she wasn't human in the first place but rather the physical manifestation of the authority of origin born out of nowhere, but despite being born a herrscher she managed to live as a human up until her final banquet to return herself to where she came and that is the cocoon of finality and what it is, it's kinda vague cause there no info given of what it is or where it came from, the only thing we know in the community is that it traverses the universe to find sentient life forms to give them it's "Embrace" but this embrace is difficult for mortal beings to take, which causes other worlds to die along with it's inhabitants in the main honkai universe then seeks again until it's final stop on earth and landed on the moon but what makes interesting is not what it is or where it came up but how it is powerful and capable influencing reality and those living on it for starters the concept of herrschers this are host of the cocoon powers what happens is that the cocoon's powers when it enters the base reality it filters out to different spectrums of itself in a total of 13 herrschers but for it's powers it depends on how that civilization is capable of resisting the cocoon's attempt to give it's embrace one particular thing that stands out is it's aponia seeing the threads of fate of each person in the world which is actually the cocoon latching and influencing the inhabitants on the world to it's will, there are implications to this which results of who the cocoon chooses as a vessel for it's powers and have complete control over that host in a attempt to give the civilization it's embrace but due to Elysia returning to the cocoon she actually severed the threads of fate and making aponia no longer accurately see the person's fate now that fate can be rewritten by the person themselves changing the course of fate for that person and miraculously for the herrschers in the current era (CE). It's just one of the cocoon abilities it just gets crazier but currently the only thing given to us is that it had complete control and can use it efficiently use the authority of the other herrschers on steroids. And it's ability to edit a universe like copying and pasting a game file to make another that is one of it's abilities. But this mini universes are unstable and in a constant halt of time containing memories of lost and forgotten eras.
In terms of Griseo there are still no info about her wherebouts but she is alive thanks to some content released in the game although for her current state I would assume she would be in a cryogenic state considering she was traversing inside the solar system for the last 50000 yrs but during the early years in the current era (CE) it managed to leave the solar system 2000 years before the awakening of the pioneers in the their cryogenic sleep to kickstart Project S.A.V.E (Stigma, Ark, Valuka and Ember) there are some speculations in regards of Vill-V's design on the ark whether it's a interstellar travel ship or a multiversal hoping ship just like the Astral Express in star rail which is the 2nd divine key aka the Cosmic Juggernaut which is capable of controlling the fabric of space, traversing through space and other universes and dimensions, observing other universes and one of it's gimmicks is creating a mini bubble universe for a person to inhabit or as a temporary shelter against outside threats and containing otherworldly or dangerous entities.
There's is a possibility that griseo created teyvat with her mantis powers and with the aid of a device capable of mimicking the 2nd divine key's zeroth power and with the sky being fake and all, it's still a possibility griseo has something to do with her paintings forming the lands and the sky of teyvat in that mini bubble universe and with the Ark containing the DNA of the human genome one thing led to another forming the people of teyvat as for the archons and gnosis and the heavenly principles with lore given the heavenly principles being a outsider and has influenced the world of teyvat as it is now with the archons resembling as herrscher somehow but with a different role than their counterparts they are trespassers
Interesting things I noticed:
- HoV and Asmoday share the same jp va
- when Project Ark is explained, two shooting stars are shown, it looks just like how the travelers are depicted in the opening
- HoV has the same cn va as Hu Tao
- in Ei's second story quest, you have to travel though an abstract space, which reminds me of the Sea of Quanta
- the accurate translation actually says that the Sustainer is fading away
You does very amazing job to notice the Honkai reference in Genshin.
Since I'm not gonna playing Genshin, your analyst video is very helpful.
Alot of what you said about the honkai and the Will reminded me of one the influences the devs took inspiration from, Gurren Lagann an anime that to me shares a lot of parallels with. Like the Will of honkai being the opposite of the anti-Spirals or the previous era's fall the the fall of the humans against the anti-Spirals, at least to me.
Anyone else thinks this or just me?
I was thinking about this the whole time, I was just like "God I'm old and no one will get this reference" LOL
Wow this guy notices details and stuffs way better than us the veteran honkai and genshin players. I can't help but agree to the connections he mentioned.
This was very well made. Thanks Ganymede!
For the Murata Himeko, it was confirmed by Venti that the pyro archon’s name is Murata and she has fiery red hair. Sounds like Himeko. I think the pyro archon will be Himeko’s Genshin counterpart, not Diluc.
thank you so much omg ive kept trying and trying and now someone finally did it
It made me a bit sad that the captainverse wasn't included, but i would never blame you, since i myself having played for years don't understand it fully, great video btw, keep dem theories coming :v
Maybe in a follow-up video my friend! When I saw I already had over an hour of material, I had to leave some stuff on the cutting room floor, and I'm hoping that particular one will develop with Genshin's story a little more ;) please look forward to it!
There's a doc that orders all captain verse events if u check online its a bit lengthy though
Good arguments but what about the mural from Enkanomiya that tells us about the Hyperion, which is a curent era ship in the Honkai lore not a previous era.
This the kind of how to tell me that u love the story of thes game without telling me,
1 hr of theory, this is good shiet
Great video! You filled in a bunch of Honkai knowledge gaps for me. I totally buy that Griseo is the primordial one. My crack theory is that Klee (named for a painter), is Teyvat's Griseo, and Genshin's story will end with Klee leaving Teyvat to rebuild/preserve it. 2nd crack theory is that Roselyn gets resurrected in Natlan and takes on an Aponia-type role to stabilize Teyvat against further edits of Irminsul
I am at the start of the loom of fate part, but I want to say that The Sinner from the last quest might be what remains of The Primordial One, or The First Who Came, since it is a rebel to the Heavenly Principles, and another genshin theorizer, Wei, said that they had "fallen from grace". There are also mentions of people becoming sinners in Honkai Impact, but I have not played far enough to know what that could mean.
Now to my thory about the start of Teyvat. The Ark comes to Teyvat, which is currently reigned by the Seven Dragon Sovereigns, and is uninhabitable to human. The Primordial One defeats them, and seals them in special creations (Hypostases). However one is able to escape by molding multiple bodies for itself from stone. That is who Wei theorizes is Morax. Morax makes a contract with the primordial one, and one to two thousand years later, he witnesses the fall of civilisations under the hand of The Second Who Came, who defeated The Primordial One. He decides that it's safest to have his nation start travelling, and until it stops he does that. After another five hundred years he meets Guizhong, and then even more time later, the Archon War starts, in which he seals Osial, and Guizhong sacrifices herself to protect their nation. Around that time Barbatos defeats the God of storms (forgot his name), and gains the title of a god. It's also around the time in which Ei defeats The Thunder Bird, and Ouroboros(?). Then, many years later, 500 before the traveler wakes up, a nation by the name of Khaen'riah is destroyed for pursuing the same forbidden knowledge that nearly destroyed Sumeru. Morax is called there to destroy it, after which you definitely know everything. However I also think you should look at Wei's videos, since they are simply superb.
58:54 -the stigma genome is a product of evolution that comes from the honkai beast project (MANTIS) which injects the genes of honkai beasts into women from PE to form a resistance towards the honkai by being embraced/evolved from their childhood state, the only difference is through awakening them. there is no general relation to a "true stigmata" and a "stigmata" with relation to a herrscher is because ultimately the reason for a stigmata to form is through their "will of stigmata". the will of stigma is an "ego" within the stigmata space that is also considered a persona or identity that make up DNA of the human who has it. the best example is mei's "will of stigmata" which was corrupted by the "will of honkai (prometheus)" to turn against humanity by guilt tripping it into becoming the enemy of humanity acting as if she's the Herrscher of lightning. it is not the will of honkai that manipulates honkai but it's from within the imaginary singularity called the "cocoon of finality." which kevin says is an "extraterrestrial manipulator of fate".
herrschers aren't born in the current era unlike PE because of elysia, rather they are selected through the imaginary bleed in space that is opened when a honkai eruption occurs. which selects an individual who come in contact with high density honkai radiation and if they are compatible enough forms a core inside them allowing them to use authorities that come from the cocoon of finality. ultimately herrschers only have authorities, the core just acts as a medium for the herrschers to be rooted in real space because they are pure concepts.
moreover Finality isn't actually part of the imaginary tree rather it's a higher order civilization within the imaginary tree that forces humanity to evolve.
Thank you so much for summarizing and analyzing the similarities between the two games! ❤I know for sure I won't play Honkai really it sounds very complicated. BUT it is still fascinating for Genshin lore chasers to go down this rabbit hole with you and explore the possibilities 😂
Honestly i would have love a part 2 of another hour long depth about honkai connection with genshin. because of how much i love lore bits feature in Honkai and Genshin, if u every do decided on that, i cant wait for your thoughts! Thank you for providing such a long vid!
One thing I crack Hc about is the Hexnezirkel circle and the espy they may be influenced by. Whoever went to the last banquet which Elysia invited ( she invited everyone in the flamechaser but only 4 show up) would be in or somehow involved in the coven of witches.
Aponia - Mona's teacher
Eden - **could be Gold since genshin love giving her Rhinedottir "Gold" title
Vill -V - **She could also be Gold, but my thoughts pull me toward her being Alice
Basic on: her Helix Signet , an inventor of divine keys ( importantly is Cosmic Juggernaut, and Alice who traveled between worlds) Her involvement with the Elysia realm is heavy. (Also, monkey island of monkeys. For some reason she just made guns and gave it to them.) IF this doesn't scream Alice's crazy ideas, wooo boy. It won't be surprising too since Vill V and Alice both share many "faces” or titles. Alice is power mage, inventor, adventurer, supplier to Dori and mother. Vill V with her persona: Con Artist, Magician, Mechanic, and Chef. Arguably you could say Alice is long lived and of course she could take many hobbies to pass the time and gain many titles.
Kevin - Now this one I have no idea. He could espy that we have yet to meet. Heck Alice's husband since that "seem" to be the only male could have ANY relationship with the circle.
Elysia: **Alice, but there is one "being" I would like to add to this list: Istaroth. With how much she is involved in human affairs, and doing their best to support them, she appears to hold such a love for them.
More crack, if she keeps her elf ears(she did get them from an experiment project from the fire moth) or could have different ones that follow the theme of “fairy tale” like. Just like the Jinn race, she could have influenced or involvement in the race of elves in genshin. Tie in to her close relationship with the moon itself. (Seele and all) It would not surprise me if she does offer a hand to those "finding the truth of this world" in hope to better the future of humanity.
***I really should not be watching lore at 4 am omg, edit for grammar
Finally someone make theory about what i've been theorizing my self
Nice explanation thankyou
i rarely leave comments but i just want to thank you for making this. this is amazing. i have been listening the whole video and still want more. thank you!
I’ve been crack posting in the HoyoImpact channel in my friends’ discord server *for months.* But my Honkai knowledge is very limited and my friends are Genshin-onlys. Imagine the “trying to explain meme” with the cork board and red string, except half the notes aren’t there.
There are far too many coincidences for them to just be coincidence
This coming into my recommendations is a GODSEND. Archonssend? Herrschersend? Either way, I’m subscribing. Thank you for this
I’ve been playing Honkai since launch and yes, there are a lot of theories that can be drawn that sound possible. After all, both games exist in the Imaginary Tree. The existence of Celestia and its mission to prevent progression sounds so much like its preventing Teyvat from advancing too much, keeping it hidden from Honkai. Also, there’s a false sky that seems to be protecting whole of Teyvat.
The link between Ayato and Otto might have to do with Ayato's hidden personality and his secret organisation
OMG, you don't know how much I'm happy now for this video, I love honkai and Genshin impact and they related to each other there is no doubt, because of honkai story we can admitting there is no coincidence in every single event everything was destined to happen and we can't just ignore all of this because some people don't want these worlds to be connected because they are for sure, thank you for this huge effort 🌷💜
This is one hell of a facinating video, definitely made me think alot more about stuff in both games.
Keep up the good work and don't overdo it with your health.
Awe yeah! I just started playing through the HI3 story and definitely came to a lot of the same "outlandish" conclusions. (Okay, back to watching the video...)
If we consider that Teyvatians might be people from project ark, the first one being (the painter) and the second one (Honkai will) then...
If irminsul is considered as a manifestation of the ark, with all the data coming and going through it (with people/things repeating just because of the human genome being there, and repeating patterns occur due to it), then isn't it easy to say that the ark may have created creatures which while human in appearance are a crossing with the honkai, creating gods?
What if the reason why memories are so easily altered is not because of something mythical, but because of biological neuro transmitters that are in sync with the ark repository (Irminsul) so any change can easily change the data in the minds of hundreds if not thousands, millions etc?
Nahida accesses the data of Irminsul through a panel not entirely dissimilar to as of a control panel of a ship? They said that Irminsul is at the heart of the world, but what if the actual irminsul is above the heavens? (As theorised with all stars being the fruits of irminsul etc)
Just a theory in my mind.
So nahida coud be a hologram-pilot from the ark
I think irminsoul/ark is a lot like imagenary tree since dains line of all life shoud be thankfull to nahida
@@Owudukan its very possible.
As far as I'm aware, the Second Who Came is most likely the Abyss based on a certain descriptions I read somewhere, but it's very possible the Abyss can be Honkai given the shared similarity.
I always believed that Phanes is Griseo in her Honkai Active Form and the second who came is Kosma or Distopya
This is interesting. I don't really buy it since, like many trying to connect the two, it feels like casting as big of a net as possible to say eureka to anything that is slightly caught. Many of the characters that are said to be visually similar or based on Honkai I just don't see but then hear immediately after they have the same va, and now it just feels like grasping again. I heard Honkai is wrapping its main story soon, so hopefully, any connections the two have will be more apparent.
The 1st part just ended. There’s another half that will last 6 years.
That has been a very good summary of the connections between the two games, hope this video gets the attention it deserves.
I is funny that one of the most concise and well explained Genshin x Honkai theory update would be from a channel called "The Hexenzirkel".
But I'm still waiting for Hoyoverse to randomly drop a bomb that days that the Twins met The Captain and their crazy One Piece like crew of Brony, Irene and Khongmin somewhere in the Universe.
Oh, also worth to say that another thing to reinforce the False Sky in Teyvat it's Griseo's dream in her limited time event. In that event, Griseo paint a sky on a canvas too create a new sky because "a monster" ate it (this monster being a fruit from her imagination), and that sky is very similar (to not say identical) to the Sky in Mona's second GAA domain
this really put finality in perspective. i've been playing Hi3 for about a year, and i kinda got it but..brain hurty.
Also..
Su has Sayu's leaf motif. hm.
Finally! I'm so glad someone's decided to talk about the connections between Genshin and Honkai. Don't know if this will be mentioned in the video, since I'm only 9 minutes in, but Genshin Impact was almost called Honkai 4. :)
Where can I read more about title shift? If that’s the case, then abyssal energy might be honkai energy or simply the energy of the sea of quanta which seeks to devour worlds.
@@joshuavallente7057 I found it while I was looking through MiHoYo's wikipedia page. It's under their History, in the Genshin section. You'll find it in the third paragraph, with citation numbers 48 and 49. Citation 48 is a link to what looks like a Chinese article, and citation 49 links to a Chinese news video on bilibili. Sorry if this ends up being a double post, since I had to retype it because it wouldn't show up in the replies. Anyway, I hope this helps!
This was amazing! Thank you so much for making this.
I'm a month late but I wanna say I loved the video
and I also wanted to let anyone who reads this know to check the HI3 animated short "Because of You", and during the credits about 6 mins in you can see Griseo's parents Ato and Blanca, who are the expys for Ayato and Ayaka
and try not to get too upset that they're a couple here and not siblings
6:22 This is incorrect. The fanbooks explicitly note that Herrschers do have Herrscher personalities. That Mei has a special case going on does not negate everyone else having a Herrscher personality (it doesn’t have to be a separate personality per the second fanbook definition, it just has to be a personality overcome with a desire for destruction). As early as 9-17, we see Himeko fight the Shadows of Desire, emanations of the Gem of Desire trying to overcome her mind with meaningless nonsense of living a good life instead of sacrificing herself for her student. As late as Sentience we have confirmation of this through her Honkai Operation Center video.
I still think the only reason people are so against "honkai and genshin are related" is because of the general vitriol both fandoms have towards each other.
You know what a good honkai cross-over to genshin will be? It will be a story quest, of an archon, Nahida specifically.
In her 3rd or 4th or 6th story quest, we return to Sumeru only to witness that it was in chaos. We learned that Nahida did some meditation and won't wake up for a very long time, causing an uproar in the city. We somehow managed to salvaged what's left of the Akasha terminal and connected to Nahida's mind to try waking her up in her deep, long slumber.
As we enter Nahida's mind, we saw ourselves in a vast desert made of ice, mountains of glaciers and floating giant dark crystals. We see Nahida near the horizon of our perspective, down on her knees, exhausted. In front of Nahida was a man, in black coat, with white hair and cold blue eyes, wielding a flaming greatsword. IT'S THE WILL OF STIGMATA, AND NAHIDA WAS TRAPPED IN THE STIGMATA DREAMSPACE FIGHTING HIM, *CAUSE SOMEHOW SHE'S RELATED TO THE KASLANAS AND MUST FACE THE WILL OF STIGMATA TO PROVE HERSELF*
I know, it's an ambitious dream of mine, clunky and shtty as well, but her it will be funny if Hoyo just dropped that "Nahida was partly a Kaslana" lmao
"Her hair has taint of green and her eyes are green as well, she can't be a Kaslana, dumbass" yeah yeah i know, well she's infused with the dendro(?) but still it will be entertaining if they pulled this off.
Yo yo yo yo you're absolutely cookin look at the other archons their hair and eyes are the element color
Imagine if we live in the Teyvat kind of world and the memory of Honkai was deleted from our Irminsul and the only things left untouched are Hoyos games - like Nahida s backup or fairytale books😂😂😂
Wow! I, literally, know NOTHING about Genshin. I've never even downloaded the app. But this seems a VERY compelling argument! These connections are fascinating! Well, done! #subbednbelled