NICE! Don't forget, there is the BMZ RS (formerly Sachs RS) found in NOX Cycles.. 112 NM and over 800W sustained. But more than 3 kg and because they use 48V, the battery with the same capacity is heavier too.... So very impressive from DJI! Thanks for the Infos !
@A - agreed . one thing about sachs/BMZ that needs clarification when comparing to DJI is that there is no auto cut off on the sachs in turbo even when pedaling at low RPMS . i use the sport mode on most hills as it is almost as punchy as turbo . i have ridden up long steep hills for more than a km without any overheating . DJI admits that using their turbo for more than thirty seconds could result in dangerous overheating and there is no mention of what RPM levels are being used . Most of the hyperbolic reviews are nothing more than spec ads claiming superiority over all other bikes with no mention of Sachs or TQ . There is little to none long term real world testing . DJI is probably flush with cash which allows them to send bikes all over the world for their 'ADS'. i would like to see a race between the BMZ and the DJI on a long steep hill of about one to two km on a hot summer day and see which motor becomes the hottest . i'm keeping my Nox xc until i die becuse of my extreme satisfaction with the bike and the motor .
@@siriosstar4789 did you update the rs? I love the two new modes. Tour and mtb. Turbo and eco remain unchanged.. I still use the eco 80% of the time and only need the mtb mode on very steep terrain.. So I switch between eco and tour ... I ride the 7.1 Enduro in the base version with and upgraded the coil to a fox dhx and got over the last 13 months around 4000 km (the battery is still not showing any degradation, but didn't do a range test for a long time)
i never do upgrades unless i'm forced into it. i never use eco , just tour and sport and rarely turbo . i have all of the power concentrated into tour and sport and it's perfect for me . every time i ride i'm amazed at how the motor settings respond to my effort . i had my mechanic set it up that way when i bought the bike about 5 years ago . i don't even do updates on my computer 😂
@@siriosstar4789 those two are really adaptive... And I didn't change the curves and installing them (can only do them in the store).. The fade out of the new modes are really great... The ramp up is much more controlled.... Very good for slippery and steep terrain... Even if tour is 70 nm and mtb is 90 or 95 nm (eco 55 nm), I still use pretty much the same wh/km... So it only gives me the power if needed.. Really great.. Had changed a bit more to the Shimano 801 feeling... But what can never be as good as dji has, and ALL companies need to do that (!), it's the use of much higher resolution on the sensors and the amount of sensors that they use...
Nice review Francis. While the electronics of DJI are premium, the ZF-90 compact motor will likely compete directly with the Pinion gearbox motor faster in future (they already make moto gearboxes) and perhaps be compact as well. Thus, allowing for a full power sub 42 lb ZF-90 gearbox motor---that's the real future gamechanger! While the DJI motor is an improvement, I have a 110 Nm peak motor...it's nice, but I don't race and need the big racers overrun for steep tech. Sure, it's cool for an occasional hill climb challenge with friends, but is not 99% of my riding needs. The norm 85-90Nm works great!🤟
Great review !! Good and helpful info to settle the market and not cause the used EMTB market to be flooded!! We can expect some improvements from the current motor manufacturers, but it seems like they will not have to be in a hurry... that power level is a nice to have but not really needed . I'm still 100% Happy with my 2021 Trek Rail with the Bosch motor......80% of the time I'm in "Tour" mode realistically....and only really go into EMTB mode when I need the extra power......plus I like the extra weight and stability when descending....
I would say a company like BOSCH will likely dig in and make something that will compete with it for the US market in the next year and if their smart they already are. I am currently on a Rocky Mountain Altitude powerplay and love my Dyname. Surprised one of these other motor companies hasn't built anything to compete with it yet. I still ride my Ibis Ripmo mostly but love my Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay and have seen alot of friends transition to just E bikes lately and just bought a husqvarna for my girlfriend last week. The American market for these is growing very fast.
So for the first issue with DJI not releasing the product in the US, can't say anything about that. But the second issue has a pretty simple solution! Make the repair material open, with detailed schematics, part numbers ( for bearings ect), schematics of the BMS board and let the community take over the weight of repair and maintenance of the platform, many shops worldwide can certainly do that, and just focus on delivering the product worldwide through distributors and dealers. Easy fix no?
@@SeifEddineB the Polini motor is that way... You could probably fix it yourself... All parts are numbered and everyone, shops and private customers can buy them
@@EMTBReview sure not by me... but a lot of my bike friends could... mechanics and others... you get all parts and infos to repair it... polini is at least trying to be sustainable
Fascinating to see all the things that DJI has learned about drone motors - weight, noise, size, etc... - scaled up for an ebike motor. I'm sure competitors are buying copies and tearing them down right now.
@@blakkpatron they do gearboxes for autos now, it should be fast if they pull off a 7 or 8 spd micro one. But their electronics need to improve more like DJI.🔧
@@tomcagle5324 well a gear system is in my opinion more needed than a new motor system, we need something that can be adapted to any motor system. The 3x3 hub seems like a step in the right direction, but it's still a bit too heavy.
@@blakkpatron 💯 agreed thinking. Especially, for the SL emtbs. The Kindernay V-II lightweight IGH is out there for a hub company to buy out, maybe Industry 9, Wolftooth, even Oneup with their new hubs. Supposedly, about the same grams and was similarly priced as the Sram T-type. Just not heavy and proprietary like 3x3. Like Rollof, just half the weight and cost, particularly now since they went wireless shifting!😁
Great review. My thoughts are that I want to see what the failure rate is after a year or so before I flash the cash. Until recently I was seeing many failures with the Levo caused by water ingress and belt failure. The belt failure has been addressed with a better belt, but the reason for those failures is often the reason for failures in motors with plastic gears - Pedal Strike. The greater the torque produced, the more chance of stripping a couple teeth with a strike. Talking to a few of my LBS and they are reporting a slight rise in issues with the EP801 since the firmware update pushing the NM up some. Great that there are new players and hopefully by the time DJI gets to America they have alll issues sorted ... let the Euros help work out the bugs. The water ingress is more for the most part the same reason on most motors - bad design. Using the Bosch as an example, when they went from the original motors to the new, lighter Gen CX they went to smaller, narrowed bearings - this increases flex as the cases are usually narrower & lighter as well. The smaller balls and races tend to fail quicker than the ones with the bigger balls. The eBike Motor Centre (formerly Performance Line Bearings) will probably get his hands on one soon enough and we can see how they stack up. Me, I liked the look of the bike, thought the top tube display looked great and much prefer the minimalistic handlebar controls.
Very good input. Yes, these are developmental years of ebike motors and all of the new designs have problems for several versions. Levo, Brose, Bosch, Fazua, TQ all failed at high rates during the early years. Shimano and Bosch had better track records. It looks like DJI has better initial testing so that is good. But honestly, what do the know about mountain bike demands?? And who are their legitimate field riders and testers. So, there will definitely be a few bugs to work out and if one doesn't be part of that, then wait til it matures a bit.
I own 2 DJI drones, the fit finish and quality is amazing. DJI with the resources they have will build even better motors in the near future. This is just their entry model.. they will dominate
The seem to be one of the leading engineering companies in the world right now. Absolutely stunning products and leaders in almost every category they choose to play in. I think it just depends how deep they want to get into bikes and if they're willing to build up the service and support infrastructure. Working with all the bike manufacturers is a big undertaking too.
It probably is DJI reacting to the US possibly banning their drones!🤷🏼♂️ I’m looking to get an AMFlow in the new year, you can order one for December delivery currently in the UK!👍🏻 it ticks all the boxes for me from what I want from an e-bike! Weight, power and probably the most important is the fast charging, that is huge! There’s bikes with the same if not more power and bigger batteries but they weigh way more and they don’t have the fast charging, a lot of trail centres have e-bike charging now so you can put it on charge while your having lunch and your ready to go again! I’ve actually seen that with the AMFlow bike at a trail centre, we had both ridden the same trail me using the Bosch performance CX with 750wh battery, we both used 40% of battery which was interesting as my bike ways a lot more than the AMFlow and I’m a bigger rider than the rider of the AMFlow, I could just change my battery and go again but it was lunch time so stopped to have some food the AMFlow was put on charge and by the time I had had some food and swapped batteries the AMFlow was fully charged again! Great bit of kit, I’ll go for the 6K option and build it up with my own parts and spec👍🏻
Pinion motor and transmission combined system will forever be a niche product I am afraid. It is too proprietary and it's got little U.S. presence. I liken it to the Pinion gearbox and Rohloff gear hub. Great technologies that never get mass adoption.
I would not be surprised if Riese and Muller would be one of the first bike manufactures to team up with DJI. If it does happen expect it in late 2025, just in time for the holidays.
Every new product, is defined as being the best. Especially on UA-cam. Ranting about the positives, rarely discussing the faults. Buyer beware...unless your wealthy, and don't care about price. I recently replaced my Bosch Gen4, with a Oli edge motor. Bosch, could learn a few things from Oli. Much better torque, than Bosch. And better battery management than Bosch. DJI warranty concerns me. So does the ware of the plastic(they give it the cool name of polymer), sprockets within the motor. Notify me when a motor is manufactured from graphene, bamboo, or recycled cardboard.
The Bosch Gen 5 motor will receive a firmware update to a 100nm minimum. Like the older Bosch motors that started with 75nm and new firmware upgraded them to 85nm. I would be buying Bosch until DJI can prove they can service the bikes with parts etc.
Got rid of my ebike, to hard to travel internationally with an ebike. If/when I buy another one…motor is most important and I agree torque is what you need for MTB, climbs are low rpm grunt. Next thing is I’ll ONLY buy an aluminum bike next time…carbon gets damaged to easy.
I had my 2022 Giant trance for over 2 years, 3000 miles, zero issues with motor or batteries. So maybe Bosch and specialized aren’t as reliable as the Yamaha motor
newest ... best ...quietest...most powerful...lightest....incredible display.....LITERALLY NONE OF THIS MATTERS AND WILL NEVER SELL UNTIL THEY START MAKING UNIVERSAL FIT DRIVE UNITS......
Universal mounts for motors and frames??? That does not exist and will not exist in the next decade unfortunately. Yet ebikes will sell like hotcakes. There is no motivation for manufacturers to go standard motor mounts. Their proprietary drivtrains are their core differentiator unfortunately.
I hope you are wrong about US availability. They didnt pass the DJI drone ban, so hopefully that helps. I was all but ready to order a Nebo Peak, and then I saw this announced.
I was close to ordering the Nebo Peak as well, but continued lack of the range extender and Fazua’s controllers looking like garbage and prehistoric compared to DJI made me realize my Orbea Rise is still good for a couple seasons. The best thing that comes from this is that it forces the other manufacturers to improve the displays and control inputs.
Many of you are obviously not familiar with DJI. They do not take years to launch products. This is not Specialized or Trek that we're talking about. Their bike will be available worldwide much sooner than anyone realizes
I don't think they're interested in launching a huge bike brand. They just needed to showcase their product that they developed in secret. The business trying to enter is like Bosch, be a motor system supplier. And I think many bike companies will want to use this system, but it will take a couple years.
@@EMTBReview They "claim" Amflo will be a test bed for their products as they are released before selling to other brands. So any updates and new products will hit Amflo first. Which is actually a really good thing for other bike manufacturers and brands. Again, this is just what they claim. A company like DJI does have a great track record though. So that's a good sign.
It's a funny thing but while this 'noise and clunking sound' comments seem prevalent and pointed at Bosch, I ride a Cube with a Bosch CX performance motor and I've never heard noise or clunking. Never. Would sure like more torque for my uphill climbs though. Seems this review is on company released stats only. I do agree we need an eBike shakeup. The same with Australian laws. Have pity on us Aussies who are allowed to ride only at 25kph.
Bosch CX rattles most defintely. And they have fixed it in the CX 5 found in 2025 model year bikes. One will not hear the rattle while coasting on rocky descents if it's your only bike. Your mind will tune it out. But when you ride a quiet bike, the difference becomes glaring. I didn't have the motor when this was released but everything is true. The DJI motor is climbing 25% faster than the latest Bosch CX4 or CX5 motors. 25kph motor cutoff is a major bummner
Reason 3 : three plastic gears. That's is 1/4th to 1/10th of the tensile strength of best steel metal parts. They are going to fail and you will need servicing/replacement parts IN A SHOP 4 to 10 times as often as motors with NO plastic gears. If you buy your bike to ride and throwaway (or resell broken), then it may not matter.
I wouldn’t bet against DJI engineering with hearsay. It’s there for noise and vibration and they put 3 instead of 1. I’m sure they put millions of cycles in it
Hello, you say the motor is quiet? At least 2 reviewers that have actually ridden this bike say there is a clunking of the motor on the downs. This has also been acknowledged by DJI themselves. Maybe a little more fact checking before posting speculation. Shame you guys in the US may not get this bike , hopefully this will change. I hope this will shake the E-bike market up and make them sit up and listen. 👍
Good point. I watched all the videos and did not see that. I saw one video that said there was a bike rattle. My speculation at this point. Can you share the video urls please, especially where they acknowledge? Yes I really hope this shakes up the market!!!!!!!
@@EMTBReviewI’ve also got an email from DJI support acknowledging this problem but assuring me of a fix before final release. Got to say if this is fixed this bike will shake up the market. Hopefully kickstart the industry to stop drip feeding us, the consumer, mildly updated emtb’s when they’re capable of this kind of technology. 🤞🏻
@@streddazread the other review I mentioned. As I said earlier, I’ve also a reply from DJI Amflow acknowledging this motor clunking noise and promising a fix before final release.
Just waiting price list 😅 On the wepbage there is a instruccion manual they have, of how to install handlebars and tires out of the box, so maybe those bikes could be ordered online
@@EMTBReview comparing to SWorks Levo & SL which are 3k more with mediocre tech, smaller battery but similar components. Don’t you think the DJI Amflow beats them hands down?
Now they can brick your bike with an update too. Better keep the original packaging or they won’t warranty it like they did with their drone. No thank you.
@@Silverbeardedsurfer only if you start to drive with full power and in a high gear.... If you start in a low gear and with eco and then gradually as the speed increases raise the power, you will get about 3000 miles on a slx /deore cassette
@@AK-ContentCreatIon Still think 90nm is more than enough. I can get up pretty much anything with that much assistance. Feels like super easy mode after being on my 50nm bike while trying to get fit.
@@Silverbeardedsurfer I agree... I got 112 Nm 860 W continuous motor Sachs rs , I seldom use it.. Basically in the eco with 55 and sometimes 75 nm trail mode
There is something very suspicious going on with the reviews for the DJI motor . EVERY single reviewer gives a glowing report on a bike/motor that has no real world long term testing . To me this is a red flag indicating some form of compensation occurring. aside from that there are glaring omissions as to it being the MOST powerful. in specs yes but in performance ? take for example the sachs rs 112 Nm and the TQ at 120 Nm. the sachs delivers all of its power in RPMs as low as 40 to 60 WITHOUT over heating . The DJi 120 Nm is only available for thirty seconds because of the possibility of over heating which BTY the manufacturers openly admits . As to the batteries , the fact that they cannot be easily removed for off bike charging and or exchanging on the go with a back up, is a deal breaker for many riders . So i would take all of the extreme hyperbole with a grain of salt UNTIL we see one or two years of anecdotal reports from riders .
I'm sorry but watts (power) is definitely more important than torque, power is the summary of speed and torque, that's why gas cars have more rpm but less torque than diesel but same power in the end
Power = torque x rpm You can get a lot of power by spinning the pedal rpm’s to 120bpm. But nobody does that. Spin at 80rpm at most while climbing steep trails. Also there’s a 20mph cutoff on motors. This is the reason why torque or NM is key in emtbs
@@EMTBReview Yes that's what im saying, but its about motor rpm, not your pedal rpm, your pedal input is for a torque sensor to register what power you need
For sure, I am very excited about this development and how it will push the ebike category. Now I am not sure folks should wait because every day not eat biking or not having an E bike is a lost opportunity. I really hope the dominant US manufactures with great dealers and support infrastructure introduce a bike with this motor sooner rather than later.
Wrong about torque vs power. Power is what get you up the hill. Basically, power = torque x rpm, so a motor needs to be able to maintain peak torque trough a wide range of rpm.
Disagree. Torque is what accelerates you and changes your speed, especially on steep hills. Power or peak power is what determines your top speed. Since these bikes are all limited to 20mph shut-off anyway, peak power is mostly useless. I have a Bosch SX right now with 600 watts of power. It can barely get me up the steepest hills since it's only got 55nm of torque.
@@EMTBReview on a steep gradient , you will not hit the limiter, so power is what get you up the hill. The reason why the Bosch SX is slower, even if it’s got 600w, is that it is design to get you 600w on short burst with crank speeding up to 120rpm. But on a normal climb or normal effort, you are not(your legs) putting enough power to acces those 600w, so the motor probably give you back only 350-400w or so. At a stand still , it is true that torque will make you accelerate from 0 rpm to whatever you are spinning, but in order to give adequate power, the motor needs to be able to maintain its peak torque trough out the range of rpm.
You mentioned the DJI bike may not be sold in the U.S. until 2025 or later. What if--when the bike becomes available in Europe--I went on a vacation to Europe, bought the bike there, then shipped it back to myself in California? Are there any roadblocks I could face?
I don’t think there are going to be any roadblocks to this. It is not easy to ship a big lithium battery back to the US but I believe the regulations forms and options are being sorted out for this already. Now when it comes to getting any kind of customer, support and service, that’s going to be a big problem.
When Pinion is fully adopted and mature, it will get about 5% market share in the US. That's best case. It's a good system but will forever be a niche product since very few manufacturers will adopt a closed/proprietary system
True. Numbers have to be combined with riding experiences. Most folks can’t tell though between 60nm and 100nm since there are few meaningful tests. The weight though and all the display and battery features though are undeniable
@@EMTBReview Sure more competition only benefits us the buyer. So happy to see such a big technology manufacturer to join in. Im sure they will deliver some serious competition.
I hope I'm wrong. I just know how long it takes to build a bike around a motor and how hard it is to build a service and support infrastructure in the US. The other issue is these bikes will be so hot. There will be a massive waiting list for it... in Europe. None will be left for anyone else.
Not so sure about plastic gears. Also, you were saying like two weeks ago the industry is shifting away from Shimano motors. It seems like now you're hawking this as the next best thing. A litlte all over the place, but then again so is the industry.
Correct. There is shift from Shimano to Bosch motors among many manufacturers. Plastic gears, I'm not worried since there exists crazy materials these days. Just as long as it's not a belt. The key point is this motor is quite a step up from the options today. But it won't be in a lot of bike ins the US for a long while.
They will ruin the e-MTB scene with their secret proprietary nonsense, just like they did with drones, you go out to a field and the drone won't work because it wants an update, but you don't have a Wi-Fi connection in the middle of nowhere !
I’ve been using the Dji drones quite a bit and their execution is insanely good. I fly everywhere and the thing is up in the air in seconds, no fail. 240 grams, follow me visual tracking with a great camera Of course
Exactly. It's all about speed and execution. Better believe Bosch and the rest of the motor guys are scrambling now. They do have the service and infrastructure lead in the US.
I sincerely hope so. I don't thin we'll have any significant volume and price points by that time at all. Folks who can creatively import DJi equipped bikes will get it. Very little support infrastructure though.
tongue-in-cheek I know. What's happening is DJI's drones are so good that USA companies (like SKYDIO can't compete and trying to win the product war through banning and legislation.
Interestingly the 'w' in 'www' stands for "worldwide" and not "where I happen to live" - so this review does come over as both parochial and misleading if you happen to live elsewhere (especially if its in Europe where people do ride MTBs, can buy the Amflow, will get support all whilst being able to access UA-cam). 😉
Like all youtube channels, this one focused on a region... and this one is the US. I differentiate between Europe and US availability many, many times in the video so please 'f' focus a little bit.
NICE! Don't forget, there is the BMZ RS (formerly Sachs RS) found in NOX Cycles.. 112 NM and over 800W sustained. But more than 3 kg and because they use 48V, the battery with the same capacity is heavier too....
So very impressive from DJI!
Thanks for the Infos !
Appreciate your info as well my good man!!!
@A - agreed . one thing about sachs/BMZ that needs clarification when comparing to DJI is that there is no auto cut off on the sachs in turbo even when pedaling at low RPMS . i use the sport mode on most hills as it is almost as punchy as turbo . i have ridden up long steep hills for more than a km without any overheating .
DJI admits that using their turbo for more than thirty seconds could result in dangerous overheating and there is no mention of what RPM levels are being used . Most of the hyperbolic reviews are nothing more than spec ads claiming superiority over all other bikes with no mention of Sachs or TQ .
There is little to none long term real world testing .
DJI is probably flush with cash which allows them to send bikes all over the world for their 'ADS'. i would like to see a race between the BMZ and the DJI on a long steep hill of about one to two km on a hot summer day and see which motor becomes the hottest .
i'm keeping my Nox xc until i die becuse of my extreme satisfaction with the bike and the motor .
@@siriosstar4789 did you update the rs? I love the two new modes. Tour and mtb. Turbo and eco remain unchanged.. I still use the eco 80% of the time and only need the mtb mode on very steep terrain.. So I switch between eco and tour ... I ride the 7.1 Enduro in the base version with and upgraded the coil to a fox dhx and got over the last 13 months around 4000 km (the battery is still not showing any degradation, but didn't do a range test for a long time)
i never do upgrades unless i'm forced into it.
i never use eco , just tour and sport and rarely turbo . i have all of the power concentrated into tour and sport and it's perfect for me . every time i ride i'm amazed at how the motor settings respond to my effort . i had my mechanic set it up that way when i bought the bike about 5 years ago . i don't even do updates on my computer 😂
@@siriosstar4789 those two are really adaptive... And I didn't change the curves and installing them (can only do them in the store).. The fade out of the new modes are really great... The ramp up is much more controlled.... Very good for slippery and steep terrain...
Even if tour is 70 nm and mtb is 90 or 95 nm (eco 55 nm),
I still use pretty much the same wh/km... So it only gives me the power if needed.. Really great.. Had changed a bit more to the Shimano 801 feeling...
But what can never be as good as dji has, and ALL companies need to do that (!), it's the use of much higher resolution on the sensors and the amount of sensors that they use...
Forestal bikes came up with such a screen some years ago, More compatibility is what we need. Changing bikes for every new motor sucks! Great video!
Deep insight there my good man
Nice review Francis. While the electronics of DJI are premium, the ZF-90 compact motor will likely compete directly with the Pinion gearbox motor faster in future (they already make moto gearboxes) and perhaps be compact as well. Thus, allowing for a full power sub 42 lb ZF-90 gearbox motor---that's the real future gamechanger!
While the DJI motor is an improvement, I have a 110 Nm peak motor...it's nice, but I don't race and need the big racers overrun for steep tech. Sure, it's cool for an occasional hill climb challenge with friends, but is not 99% of my riding needs.
The norm 85-90Nm works great!🤟
Great share. It's an exciting time for motor systems for ebikes as the greatest minds are working on it. This move by DJI reinforces that.
I wanted this power , hoy is the consume On the battery On this power?
Great review !! Good and helpful info to settle the market and not cause the used EMTB market to be flooded!! We can expect some improvements from the current motor manufacturers, but it seems like they will not have to be in a hurry... that power level is a nice to have but not really needed . I'm still 100% Happy with my 2021 Trek Rail with the Bosch motor......80% of the time I'm in "Tour" mode realistically....and only really go into EMTB mode when I need the extra power......plus I like the extra weight and stability when descending....
I would say a company like BOSCH will likely dig in and make something that will compete with it for the US market in the next year and if their smart they already are. I am currently on a Rocky Mountain Altitude powerplay and love my Dyname. Surprised one of these other motor companies hasn't built anything to compete with it yet. I still ride my Ibis Ripmo mostly but love my Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay and have seen alot of friends transition to just E bikes lately and just bought a husqvarna for my girlfriend last week. The American market for these is growing very fast.
Love what you are doing with your channel I will share all your videos to some local facebook groups. Keep up the great work.
Much appreciated! Great gesture
So for the first issue with DJI not releasing the product in the US, can't say anything about that. But the second issue has a pretty simple solution! Make the repair material open, with detailed schematics, part numbers ( for bearings ect), schematics of the BMS board and let the community take over the weight of repair and maintenance of the platform, many shops worldwide can certainly do that, and just focus on delivering the product worldwide through distributors and dealers.
Easy fix no?
@@SeifEddineB the Polini motor is that way... You could probably fix it yourself... All parts are numbered and everyone, shops and private customers can buy them
I doubt they designed this motor to be easily serviceable by a consumer. Maybe later generations
@@EMTBReview sure not by me... but a lot of my bike friends could... mechanics and others... you get all parts and infos to repair it... polini is at least trying to be sustainable
Totally agree!!
Fascinating to see all the things that DJI has learned about drone motors - weight, noise, size, etc... - scaled up for an ebike motor. I'm sure competitors are buying copies and tearing them down right now.
Absolutely! DJI seems to be the perfect electronics engineering company right now
Reveiw the ZF motor next. That looks to be revolutionary. Thanks.
💯 The ZF-90 will likely have a matching compact gear box next... that's the real evolutionary break through.👊
@@tomcagle5324 ZF will have a real winner if they can make a lightweight hub gearbox that can be used by any motor.
@@blakkpatron they do gearboxes for autos now, it should be fast if they pull off a 7 or 8 spd micro one. But their electronics need to improve more like DJI.🔧
@@tomcagle5324 well a gear system is in my opinion more needed than a new motor system, we need something that can be adapted to any motor system.
The 3x3 hub seems like a step in the right direction, but it's still a bit too heavy.
@@blakkpatron 💯 agreed thinking. Especially, for the SL emtbs. The Kindernay V-II lightweight IGH is out there for a hub company to buy out, maybe Industry 9, Wolftooth, even Oneup with their new hubs. Supposedly, about the same grams and was similarly priced as the Sram T-type. Just not heavy and proprietary like 3x3. Like Rollof, just half the weight and cost, particularly now since they went wireless shifting!😁
Great review. My thoughts are that I want to see what the failure rate is after a year or so before I flash the cash. Until recently I was seeing many failures with the Levo caused by water ingress and belt failure. The belt failure has been addressed with a better belt, but the reason for those failures is often the reason for failures in motors with plastic gears - Pedal Strike. The greater the torque produced, the more chance of stripping a couple teeth with a strike. Talking to a few of my LBS and they are reporting a slight rise in issues with the EP801 since the firmware update pushing the NM up some. Great that there are new players and hopefully by the time DJI gets to America they have alll issues sorted ... let the Euros help work out the bugs.
The water ingress is more for the most part the same reason on most motors - bad design. Using the Bosch as an example, when they went from the original motors to the new, lighter Gen CX they went to smaller, narrowed bearings - this increases flex as the cases are usually narrower & lighter as well. The smaller balls and races tend to fail quicker than the ones with the bigger balls.
The eBike Motor Centre (formerly Performance Line Bearings) will probably get his hands on one soon enough and we can see how they stack up.
Me, I liked the look of the bike, thought the top tube display looked great and much prefer the minimalistic handlebar controls.
Very good input. Yes, these are developmental years of ebike motors and all of the new designs have problems for several versions. Levo, Brose, Bosch, Fazua, TQ all failed at high rates during the early years. Shimano and Bosch had better track records.
It looks like DJI has better initial testing so that is good. But honestly, what do the know about mountain bike demands?? And who are their legitimate field riders and testers. So, there will definitely be a few bugs to work out and if one doesn't be part of that, then wait til it matures a bit.
I own 2 DJI drones, the fit finish and quality is amazing. DJI with the resources they have will build even better motors in the near future. This is just their entry model.. they will dominate
The seem to be one of the leading engineering companies in the world right now. Absolutely stunning products and leaders in almost every category they choose to play in.
I think it just depends how deep they want to get into bikes and if they're willing to build up the service and support infrastructure. Working with all the bike manufacturers is a big undertaking too.
If it launches mini drones out of the top tube at the touch of a button, take my money. 😂
It should launch a couple follow me drones to to capture my dumb crashes :-)
It probably is DJI reacting to the US possibly banning their drones!🤷🏼♂️ I’m looking to get an AMFlow in the new year, you can order one for December delivery currently in the UK!👍🏻 it ticks all the boxes for me from what I want from an e-bike! Weight, power and probably the most important is the fast charging, that is huge! There’s bikes with the same if not more power and bigger batteries but they weigh way more and they don’t have the fast charging, a lot of trail centres have e-bike charging now so you can put it on charge while your having lunch and your ready to go again! I’ve actually seen that with the AMFlow bike at a trail centre, we had both ridden the same trail me using the Bosch performance CX with 750wh battery, we both used 40% of battery which was interesting as my bike ways a lot more than the AMFlow and I’m a bigger rider than the rider of the AMFlow, I could just change my battery and go again but it was lunch time so stopped to have some food the AMFlow was put on charge and by the time I had had some food and swapped batteries the AMFlow was fully charged again! Great bit of kit, I’ll go for the 6K option and build it up with my own parts and spec👍🏻
Dude knows everything, listen to him ;)
I just got a Scott Patron 900 so a few years out before this hits the US is perfect for when I go to replace that...😀
Sounds like good timing.
If the support is like there drones the support will be great, in Canada anyway, had my replacement drone in 3 days
Great to hear!!!! Support for a bike will be way tougher. I think they will take their time to build the support infrastructure before entering the US
Now there just needs to be competition with the PinionMGU then we'll really be good, until then don't want to fuss with old tech with an added motor
Pinion motor and transmission combined system will forever be a niche product I am afraid. It is too proprietary and it's got little U.S. presence.
I liken it to the Pinion gearbox and Rohloff gear hub. Great technologies that never get mass adoption.
I would not be surprised if Riese and Muller would be one of the first bike manufactures to team up with DJI. If it does happen expect it in late 2025, just in time for the holidays.
Agree. Niche brands will work with them for sure. But really... Trek, Specialized, Giant need to introduce a bike with their motor asap.
@@EMTBReviewgeopolitically it would be easier for Giant
Every new product, is defined as being the best. Especially on UA-cam. Ranting about the positives, rarely discussing the faults. Buyer beware...unless your wealthy, and don't care about price. I recently replaced my Bosch Gen4, with a Oli edge motor. Bosch, could learn a few things from Oli. Much better torque, than Bosch. And better battery management than Bosch. DJI warranty concerns me. So does the ware of the plastic(they give it the cool name of polymer), sprockets within the motor. Notify me when a motor is manufactured from graphene, bamboo, or recycled cardboard.
We'll see if the plastic bearings in the motor cause problems as happened with the first generations of Bosch motors.
Th plastic gears? Yeah, they'll thorougly use these motors in Europe before we get it in the US.
The Bosch Gen 5 motor will receive a firmware update to a 100nm minimum. Like the older Bosch motors that started with 75nm and new firmware upgraded them to 85nm. I would be buying Bosch until DJI can prove they can service the bikes with parts etc.
Rumor or fact? I don't see how they can get more torque and power out of that same old motor core.
Got rid of my ebike, to hard to travel internationally with an ebike. If/when I buy another one…motor is most important and I agree torque is what you need for MTB, climbs are low rpm grunt. Next thing is I’ll ONLY buy an aluminum bike next time…carbon gets damaged to easy.
Agree, agree and agree. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Too hard, too easy.
@@Silverbeardedsurfer to hard or you can’t put batteries in luggage
@@50whatnomadtravelnursemtb5 too hard
Thanks for that insightful view. I was thinking of traveling with my bike but have not traveled internationally… that’s interesting
I had my 2022 Giant trance for over 2 years, 3000 miles, zero issues with motor or batteries. So maybe Bosch and specialized aren’t as reliable as the Yamaha motor
I would Yamaha, Bosch and Shimano as similar in reliability level.
But in terms of performance and options, Bosch is the clear leader of that trio.
newest ... best ...quietest...most powerful...lightest....incredible display.....LITERALLY NONE OF THIS MATTERS AND WILL NEVER SELL UNTIL THEY START MAKING UNIVERSAL FIT DRIVE UNITS......
Universal mounts for motors and frames??? That does not exist and will not exist in the next decade unfortunately. Yet ebikes will sell like hotcakes.
There is no motivation for manufacturers to go standard motor mounts. Their proprietary drivtrains are their core differentiator unfortunately.
I hope you are wrong about US availability. They didnt pass the DJI drone ban, so hopefully that helps. I was all but ready to order a Nebo Peak, and then I saw this announced.
I was close to ordering the Nebo Peak as well, but continued lack of the range extender and Fazua’s controllers looking like garbage and prehistoric compared to DJI made me realize my Orbea Rise is still good for a couple seasons. The best thing that comes from this is that it forces the other manufacturers to improve the displays and control inputs.
I would say do not wait for DJI. It’ll be her when it is here :)
Range extender for Fazua is not coming this year. Crazy!!!
Very good video. I’m thinking 2 yrs minimum, sadly.
Thank you. I hope sooner but... let's be real. :)
Many of you are obviously not familiar with DJI. They do not take years to launch products. This is not Specialized or Trek that we're talking about. Their bike will be available worldwide much sooner than anyone realizes
I don't think they're interested in launching a huge bike brand. They just needed to showcase their product that they developed in secret.
The business trying to enter is like Bosch, be a motor system supplier. And I think many bike companies will want to use this system, but it will take a couple years.
@@EMTBReview They "claim" Amflo will be a test bed for their products as they are released before selling to other brands. So any updates and new products will hit Amflo first. Which is actually a really good thing for other bike manufacturers and brands. Again, this is just what they claim. A company like DJI does have a great track record though. So that's a good sign.
It's a funny thing but while this 'noise and clunking sound' comments seem prevalent and pointed at Bosch, I ride a Cube with a Bosch CX performance motor and I've never heard noise or clunking. Never. Would sure like more torque for my uphill climbs though. Seems this review is on company released stats only. I do agree we need an eBike shakeup. The same with Australian laws. Have pity on us Aussies who are allowed to ride only at 25kph.
Bosch CX rattles most defintely. And they have fixed it in the CX 5 found in 2025 model year bikes.
One will not hear the rattle while coasting on rocky descents if it's your only bike. Your mind will tune it out. But when you ride a quiet bike, the difference becomes glaring.
I didn't have the motor when this was released but everything is true. The DJI motor is climbing 25% faster than the latest Bosch CX4 or CX5 motors.
25kph motor cutoff is a major bummner
Reason 3 : three plastic gears. That's is 1/4th to 1/10th of the tensile strength of best steel metal parts. They are going to fail and you will need servicing/replacement parts IN A SHOP 4 to 10 times as often as motors with NO plastic gears. If you buy your bike to ride and throwaway (or resell broken), then it may not matter.
I wouldn’t bet against DJI engineering with hearsay. It’s there for noise and vibration and they put 3 instead of 1. I’m sure they put millions of cycles in it
Hello, you say the motor is quiet? At least 2 reviewers that have actually ridden this bike say there is a clunking of the motor on the downs. This has also been acknowledged by DJI themselves. Maybe a little more fact checking before posting speculation. Shame you guys in the US may not get this bike , hopefully this will change. I hope this will shake the E-bike market up and make them sit up and listen. 👍
Good point. I watched all the videos and did not see that. I saw one video that said there was a bike rattle. My speculation at this point. Can you share the video urls please, especially where they acknowledge?
Yes I really hope this shakes up the market!!!!!!!
@@EMTBReviewI’ve also got an email from DJI support acknowledging this problem but assuring me of a fix before final release. Got to say if this is fixed this bike will shake up the market. Hopefully kickstart the industry to stop drip feeding us, the consumer, mildly updated emtb’s when they’re capable of this kind of technology. 🤞🏻
Read ebike-mtb online review, about 4th paragraph from the end. Also Sam’s Bikes on this platform mentions it on his ride review from Eurobike 👍
@@JustCraigSSam said he heard a small rattle but he couldn’t say where it was coming from. Could have been something on the frame.
@@streddazread the other review I mentioned. As I said earlier, I’ve also a reply from DJI Amflow acknowledging this motor clunking noise and promising a fix before final release.
Hi :-) Are you planning to test yt decoy sn? An interesting proposition from YT - light enduro :D
Possibility, yes
Great information, thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Just waiting price list 😅
On the wepbage there is a instruccion manual they have, of how to install handlebars and tires out of the box, so maybe those bikes could be ordered online
Rumour of approximately £10000 in top model, I’ve read this in several places but obviously it’s still a bit speculative.
They have no clue how to sell high-end bikes here. Our real hope is Specialized or Trek will sell bikes with these motors.
That 10k number is confirmed. The cheap model will be expensive too. So attainable prices are wayyy off.
@@EMTBReview comparing to SWorks Levo & SL which are 3k more with mediocre tech, smaller battery but similar components. Don’t you think the DJI Amflow beats them hands down?
Now they can brick your bike with an update too. Better keep the original packaging or they won’t warranty it like they did with their drone. No thank you.
Good points. Great engineering but product support for an ebike is not in their wheelhouse
@@EMTBReviewAlso have a bit of an issue with data collected from a Chinese company and I’m not normally concerned about that sort of thing
Nonsense
People keep talking about this motor but it's an entire bike, not just a motor....
The bike they have called Amflow is just a generic full suspension bike created by DJI to showcase their motor.
Garmin support??
It doesn't look like it
It is the battery tech which excites me. 120nm is unnecessary and puts a lot of strain on the drive train.
@@Silverbeardedsurfer only if you start to drive with full power and in a high gear.... If you start in a low gear and with eco and then gradually as the speed increases raise the power, you will get about 3000 miles on a slx /deore cassette
@@AK-ContentCreatIon Still think 90nm is more than enough. I can get up pretty much anything with that much assistance. Feels like super easy mode after being on my 50nm bike while trying to get fit.
@@Silverbeardedsurfer I agree... I got 112 Nm 860 W continuous motor Sachs rs , I seldom use it.. Basically in the eco with 55 and sometimes 75 nm trail mode
True. That’s probably why they set it to 105 nm. Wait for drivetrains to catch up
@@EMTBReview I'm pretty sick of cleaning chains. I think my next emtb will be MGU and belt drive.
Greetings from Germany 😂
Morning!
There is something very suspicious going on with the reviews for the DJI motor . EVERY single reviewer gives a glowing report on a bike/motor that has no real world long term testing . To me this is a red flag indicating some form of compensation occurring.
aside from that there are glaring omissions as to it being the MOST powerful.
in specs yes but in performance ?
take for example the sachs rs 112 Nm and the TQ at 120 Nm.
the sachs delivers all of its power in RPMs as low as 40 to 60 WITHOUT over heating .
The DJi 120 Nm is only available for thirty seconds because of the possibility of over heating
which BTY the manufacturers openly admits .
As to the batteries , the fact that they cannot be easily removed for off bike charging and or exchanging on the go with a back up, is a deal breaker for many riders .
So i would take all of the extreme hyperbole with a grain of salt UNTIL we see one or two years of anecdotal reports from riders .
I'm sorry but watts (power) is definitely more important than torque, power is the summary of speed and torque, that's why gas cars have more rpm but less torque than diesel but same power in the end
Power = torque x rpm
You can get a lot of power by spinning the pedal rpm’s to 120bpm. But nobody does that. Spin at 80rpm at most while climbing steep trails. Also there’s a 20mph cutoff on motors.
This is the reason why torque or NM is key in emtbs
@@EMTBReview Yes that's what im saying, but its about motor rpm, not your pedal rpm, your pedal input is for a torque sensor to register what power you need
@@eaze7324🙄
With the significant power-to-weight improvements, this will definitely be worth the wait! China is poised to dominate the whole e-bike industry.
For sure, I am very excited about this development and how it will push the ebike category. Now I am not sure folks should wait because every day not eat biking or not having an E bike is a lost opportunity.
I really hope the dominant US manufactures with great dealers and support infrastructure introduce a bike with this motor sooner rather than later.
its where most the frames come from anyways
Wrong about torque vs power. Power is what get you up the hill. Basically, power = torque x rpm, so a motor needs to be able to maintain peak torque trough a wide range of rpm.
Disagree. Torque is what accelerates you and changes your speed, especially on steep hills.
Power or peak power is what determines your top speed. Since these bikes are all limited to 20mph shut-off anyway, peak power is mostly useless.
I have a Bosch SX right now with 600 watts of power. It can barely get me up the steepest hills since it's only got 55nm of torque.
@@EMTBReview on a steep gradient , you will not hit the limiter, so power is what get you up the hill.
The reason why the Bosch SX is slower, even if it’s got 600w, is that it is design to get you 600w on short burst with crank speeding up to 120rpm. But on a normal climb or normal effort, you are not(your legs) putting enough power to acces those 600w, so the motor probably give you back only 350-400w or so.
At a stand still , it is true that torque will make you accelerate from 0 rpm to whatever you are spinning, but in order to give adequate power, the motor needs to be able to maintain its peak torque trough out the range of rpm.
You mentioned the DJI bike may not be sold in the U.S. until 2025 or later. What if--when the bike becomes available in Europe--I went on a vacation to Europe, bought the bike there, then shipped it back to myself in California? Are there any roadblocks I could face?
I don’t think there are going to be any roadblocks to this. It is not easy to ship a big lithium battery back to the US but I believe the regulations forms and options are being sorted out for this already.
Now when it comes to getting any kind of customer, support and service, that’s going to be a big problem.
@@EMTBReviewimpossible to overseas ship a lithium battery as a consumer.
Any new motor coming out that is not a Motor+Gearbox Unit like Pinion is DOA
When Pinion is fully adopted and mature, it will get about 5% market share in the US. That's best case. It's a good system but will forever be a niche product since very few manufacturers will adopt a closed/proprietary system
157km range on a 800wh battery find that hard to believe
People who can afford they can buy them or otherwise buy what affordable others.
ok, carry on. The motor is not available to purchase and won't be for a while.
Numbers can be deceiving. Gotta wait a year or so to see what they do and how they do.
True. Numbers have to be combined with riding experiences.
Most folks can’t tell though between 60nm and 100nm since there are few meaningful tests.
The weight though and all the display and battery features though are undeniable
@@EMTBReview Sure more competition only benefits us the buyer. So happy to see such a big technology manufacturer to join in. Im sure they will deliver some serious competition.
I really think you're underestimating supply and demand my friend. I think we'll see these motors a lot quicker than that
I hope I'm wrong. I just know how long it takes to build a bike around a motor and how hard it is to build a service and support infrastructure in the US.
The other issue is these bikes will be so hot. There will be a massive waiting list for it... in Europe. None will be left for anyone else.
Light motor with lots of power? You could have problems with heat buildup. By the time it comes to the US we will know about this.
Nice engine review. Question for the presenter. What brand is the shirt you are wearing? I like it very much . Please 😊
Panache from Colorado
Criminal that you didn’t include Rocky Mountain dyname on your list that included torque! 🤬🤬
Smooth criminal
Will you sell me yours after you get it and finish testing?!
I doubt I'll get one here in the US in the next couple years.
Not so sure about plastic gears. Also, you were saying like two weeks ago the industry is shifting away from Shimano motors. It seems like now you're hawking this as the next best thing. A litlte all over the place, but then again so is the industry.
Correct. There is shift from Shimano to Bosch motors among many manufacturers.
Plastic gears, I'm not worried since there exists crazy materials these days. Just as long as it's not a belt.
The key point is this motor is quite a step up from the options today. But it won't be in a lot of bike ins the US for a long while.
They will ruin the e-MTB scene with their secret proprietary nonsense, just like they did with drones, you go out to a field and the drone won't work because it wants an update, but you don't have a Wi-Fi connection in the middle of nowhere !
I’ve been using the Dji drones quite a bit and their execution is insanely good. I fly everywhere and the thing is up in the air in seconds, no fail. 240 grams, follow me visual tracking with a great camera
Of course
with one problem , 1month later still not available. People will buy what is available and what is available is going to also cost less
Probably one year before people can buy this in Europe. A lot longer than that in the US.
Maybe in a couple years, other manufactures will one up them and we may never see dji in us.
Exactly. It's all about speed and execution. Better believe Bosch and the rest of the motor guys are scrambling now. They do have the service and infrastructure lead in the US.
bring on the sodium-ion
Lacks the energy density that lithium Ion has.
They told world wide cyclery Q2 2025.
ah poop, no release for the US.
I tell you 1 reason why not to buy, Pinion MGU....
That’s going to be a niche market motor in the US. Too proprietary
@@EMTBReview you got a point there but it also makes all existing motors obsolete
More excited by MGU tbh
Exciting but it’s so much from a small company. I’m still waiting to see Pinion gearbox bikes on the trail 10 years later
The reason not to buy it is they haven't made a good bike with it yet.
I strongly disagree with your #1 reason to "buy this motor". I expect we will see bikes for sale in the US NO later than March 2025.
I sincerely hope so. I don't thin we'll have any significant volume and price points by that time at all. Folks who can creatively import DJi equipped bikes will get it. Very little support infrastructure though.
Plastik gears dont break?
No, it's all about design and engineering
TQ Motor just 50?))) TQ Motor - 120 nm!!!
There are two versions
plastic gears no thanks 😅 it will failure first
Dude, it's DJI, you're wrong.
@@boblatkey7160 sorry I was wrong there is 3 plastic gears😂
So what is DJI?? Plastic is plastic if the chain can failure than this can as well.
@@boxinggloves87 DJI makes super high-quality stuff so I'm basically saying you're full of shit.
Yes , more than plastic feat, what’s really important is engineering, manufacturing, and rigorous testing. DJI has that
1 reason, the bike is 10k
No doubt. No name bike at that.
It's the USA's own fault, they should have treated dji better in the past. 😂
tongue-in-cheek I know. What's happening is DJI's drones are so good that USA companies (like SKYDIO can't compete and trying to win the product war through banning and legislation.
Interestingly the 'w' in 'www' stands for "worldwide" and not "where I happen to live" - so this review does come over as both parochial and misleading if you happen to live elsewhere (especially if its in Europe where people do ride MTBs, can buy the Amflow, will get support all whilst being able to access UA-cam). 😉
Like all youtube channels, this one focused on a region... and this one is the US. I differentiate between Europe and US availability many, many times in the video so please 'f' focus a little bit.
Good that i get the bike in 4 days 🤣