I think after this Tonya was like, "If you jerks are gonna score me low, I'll land a triple axel and then you'll have no choice but to place me first."
I really dont get how people say she lacked the artistry in her performances... the emotions one gets from watching her skating are just overwhelming.. yes, she wasnt the fine princess with the fragile emotions.. because she clearly displayed strength, confidence, joy, and all these emotions felt real...
I always thought she could “feel” her music more than Nancy Kerrigan. They both had odd music choices, especially with medleys, but I have a feeling that Tonya would not have skated to anything that she didn’t like or could feel.
Her abilities were something never seen before in sport, in skating especially. A young,women,had never done the things she did and could do on that ice. The other women just didn't have the strength to land the jumps like she did, jump as high, spin as fast, everything. Her death drop was huge too. Even the male skaters were shocked by her abilities. The height she got was crazy. She needs more credit!
Ito was not the better jumper or skater. On jumps, Harding had the better air position and ice coverage. Harding was also the better spinner of the two with more speed, more flexibility, and better positions. Overall, Harding had better skating skills (e.g., edge work in such moves as the Ina Bauer).
Mindoro ito might have something to say about abilities never seen before. I think Harding got hosed because of “politics” and the scoring system, but Ito was as capable jumping wise (if not better). 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Tonya Harding was the most exciting figure skater of all time....this is two years prior to her best year....1991 whens he debuted her triple axel and making history that nobody can take away from her.
As a former judge, I can say this was politics. Technically there is no way Tonya should have been placed behind Kristi. She deserved all 5/9s for technical. Both of them had some weakness artistically but if you look at Kristi's program you can see there are some really awkward moments. Her Ina Bauer was awful and some of her jumps were unchecked. The layback had poor form and her spins were not strong. I know everyone will kill me, but Tonya deserved the world spot over Kristi, that year.
Absolutely agree. Tonya should have won the free skate and been sent to Worlds over Kristi. (Jill was going to win the event as long as she placed no lower than 3rd in the free skate.)
100% agree. Why were the politics against Tonya though? Was it her upbringing or she just didnt have a story that fit the narrative like younger newbie Kristi or established star Jill, after having had to wait her turn behind Jill, Caryn, Debi for years.
The politics of waiting your turn, the way Tonya did not fit the mold, her lack of polish on and off the ice, etc. Tonya was a disaster in compulsories, and this is why she was so far back. But Kristi was adorable on the ice, but Tonya technically was so far superior to anyone that night. I had her first in the LP, Yamaguchi second. Harding should have been on the 1990 team and blew her chance and in 1993 she should have withdrawn and petitioned onto the team.
I agree with all you said. And I saw Kristi got 5.8s and 5.9s in technical merit here, if that is the case Tonya should have had 5.9s and 6.0s. I would give them about the same artistic marks or Kristi even a bit lower. Jill probably would have won anyway due to figures but she should have been 3rd at best in the LP and Tonya should have won both the short and long here and been on the team over Kristi easily.
I have been texting Tonya a message on 23/11/2021 and she replied to me a week later on 29th November at exactly 0:43am with a big surprise on my face. it was such a great pleasure to get a messaged back from Tonya. =) I am now a fan of her. she is 51 years old now.
I just found this performance of hers and WOW. Gotta be one of my faves. Blown away, then blown away again at the low marks😤 I think Tonya knows she’s boss tho, and I do too✌️
It's because USFSA doesn't like to reward deserving girls who were brought up poor. They believed that somehow a poor girl like Tonya, who lived in a car with her Dad, did not deserve recognition.
Disgraceful judging. Tonya should have clubbed the whole USFSA on the knees and not just Nancy for all the shit they put her through over the years. Harding was the clear winner of these Nationals. Yamaguchi and Trenary could have gone either way for 2nd place and the other spot on the World team behind Tonya.
It's because USFSA doesn't like to reward deserving girls who were brought up poor. They believed that somehow a poor girl like Tonya, who lived in a car with her Dad, did not deserve recognition.
@@TressBraga You know, I can't possibly understand why on earth her coach at the time, Diane Rawlinson, didn't just let Tonya live with her rather than live in a car. I imagine she had plenty of room, and I'm not sure but I don't even think she had children. Knowing Tonya was LIVING in a vehicle, I don't understand why she didn't just say, "Tonya, why don't you come stay with me?"
She had the potential to be a far more artistic skater than she became... this program shows it! She just needed more classical music appreciation and dance training.
After I watched this vastly underrated performance at Nationals, I was hoping she'd show up when Stars on Ice toured my city that summer. She was there (actually was slotted second in the program), but she only did a few doubles in her routine, and I was so disappointed she didn't use the opportunity to show off what she could really do.
feels so embarrassing coming here after seeing nacys performance. makes me wonder how did nancy even get to the place she did????? she’s so average. avarage to below avarage.
I've watched Tanya over the years coming up in the figure skating competitions. She had the jumps. And she had the artistic impression. She also had the politics against her because she didn't come from money. She only had her dad for financial support. Nancy had the money behind her. How else could she have afforded Vera Wang skating outfits while Tanyas outfits were made by a relative. It is clearly obvious that the judges were more impressed with money then skill. I thought Nancy skating was boring. Yet her companion Paul Wyle s Skating was fantastic. I couldn't believe they were coached by the same person.Nancy had no spark, no corisma, just bland skating. Kristy Yamaguchi was graceful the way she flowed out of her jumps. And Oksana had the fire and grace to beat Nancy fair and SQUARE. I wish Tanya would have been more responsible with her health. She should not have smoked with asthma, she should not have taken up with Jeff, and she should have beaten Nancy on the ice . Plus had fewer equipment problems. I think Tanya could have saved her skating future if she would have told someone what Jeff was planning. But she kept quiet. That was her downfall. That she lost confidence in herself.
Joyce Pietryga I think the Jeff thing is easier said than done. When you're in an abusive Relationship - which she was- you're often tightly controlled by your abuser. Tonya was raised by an abusive mom And basically handed off to an abusive, gold-digging man. Of course her self-esteem was shot!
Nancy didn’t come from money her dad had to work 3 jobs to pay for her skating. If it hadn’t been for Nancy’s skating, her parents would’ve been in a more secure footing financially. Her Vera Wang costumes were donated. It’s true that Nancy had more sponsorship money & I believe her family had friends with money that helped out, or so it was claimed at the time. The difference was that Nancy was “white bread” & Tonya was “white trash.” I think politics were Tonya’s downfall. Back then, it was apparently common knowledge in the skating community that judges were giving credit for bad jumps in competition that a skater was landing in practice. They were also prone to succumbing to kiss ups. Coaches would invite judges to practices, ask their advice about music & costumes, programs, etc. I got the impression from the few people I knew into skating that the way into a judge’s heart was to wear the color they suggested or skate to the music the recommended. It stinks & I would not be surprised if this garbage is still happening to some extent, they just have to be more careful.
@@AuntStina exactly. Nancy didn't come from money either. But that made up scene in I, Tonya with Tonya & the judge encapsulated the issue. They wanted a Grace Kelly, not a tough girl who could kick butt. I liked Nancy too. Why couldn't judges appreciate both of them & be fair on whoever did better on that day.
All these years later, Nancy will be remembered more for her poor attitude towards Oksana Baiul than for her actual skating. Tonya will be known as the first American woman to land the triple axel in competition, the first woman to land two triple axels in the same competition, and the first person to land a triple axel in combination. She's also one of the most exciting skaters to of all time to watch......like a great bird of prey coming in for the kill as she prepares for her jumps. As for Nancy? Great gowns, beautiful gowns.
@@tb4522 Just pointing out, the scene where Tonya confronted a judge about her low scores did happen, but it occurred backstage after a competition, not out on the ice in front of the audience, and Tonya never used any profanities or cussing towards the judge. So yeah, based on a real event, but greatly dramatized for the screen.
A lot of U.S. skaters didn't take their training seriously. Where the skaters from former Eastern Bloc countries were upset because they thought 3 hours of ice time wasn't enough, the Americans complained it was too much. Tonya wasn't the only one. Nancy, the chosen one, did her share of complaining, too.
Tonya had money issues given her economic background and how the United States Figure Skating Association did not support her fully and promote her advanced talent. Meanwhile, Japan knew they had something very special and revolutionary with Midori Ito, so they put her forward. Yes, Tonya had moments where she didn't train as hard, but these were later in her career which was the time of still being poor, her marriage with Jeff was troubled (abuse included), and she just simply grew tired of not being given her dues despite achieving things. It would be like talking to a wall. That could cause someone to almost give up or become turned off by the sport or whatever it is they tried.
@ft192 The ways the rules were back then, the skater who earned the medal at the previous year's Worlds had the spot...not the country. Therefore, the US did indeed have three spots--two for whomever they wished to send, plus one for 1988 World medalist Debi Thomas. Since she did not compete that year, the US lost her spot and could only send two. After 92, it changed to the placement belonging to the country, not individual skater.
In some ways her style and presentation were better in her earlier years, like here. Look at that Ina Bauer move -- she gave it much more extension than she would in later years. I feel like she got more cautious later in her career, even when she landed her jumps.
What do today's skaters think of her? Do they admire her or scorn her? I can never tell if when her name is used as a punch line, it's done with disdain or envy. She was a remarkable athlete and utterly unique. What does that say about us? Shouldn't we be trying to create more Hardings? I look at this, compare it to today's skaters and have to laugh.
@chattychar Yes you are totally correct. I wouldnt have noticed if not for your quote. But it is basically the same. This is much better thou! I love watching Tonya skate when she skates well!
When you are on top of your game somebody will always try to pull you down... just like a box full of ants, one finds its way out the others will pull him down!
Because back then, a country only got 3 spots if the prior year's Worlds medalist was returning to compete. Since Debi Thomas did not return, the U.S. only had 2 spots in 1989.
@@barbaraforbes5394 thanks for the reply. Im assuming the rule changed for the 1991 season? US world medalists trenary and cook didnt compete in 91 worlds.
What a pathetic, senseless rule back then. The skaters aren't solely representing themselves in competition, but their country! And did they ever hear about, retirement or going professional? Absurd.
@@alexsdb9712 Skating didn't garner much excitement (which fueled the monetary support for the field) past the amateur levels...ironically, till the Harding/Kerrigan thing a few years later - which generated SO much excitement - that the post-amateur world became a lot bigger of a deal.
Tonya was so worried in 93/94 about Kerrigan being the "chosen one." But Tonya had many fans & many of her performances were fawned over. Her ability did NOT go unrecognized. Her problem was that she treated her "artistry" like it was an afterthought. Artistry was HALF the mark & she ignored it. She was brilliant here but they chose Yamaguchi who while immature was more polished & consistent. If she had gone through an artistic transformation like Boitano did in '88 she might have done even better. Kerrigan was not that formidable a skater. 93/94 could've been Tonya's time to win Worlds but she got bitter & out of shape & did not grow artistically.
+officeaddict33 So true, she just didn't have any positive influences encouraging her in her life. Maybe her coach might have nagged her about it, but she seemed to avoid it, she needed a better management. She could have and SHOULD have been a big star.
Unlike any other sport ice skating is about striving for perfection.... relative to boxing or baseball there's no such thing as a perfect punch or perfect hit!
Her jumps were game changing, but those of you claiming her artistry was great should clean your glasses. Even by 1989 standards her artistry wasn't good. And if she'd been better at figures, she would've placed higher overall. Her figures were NOT GOOD. You can't judge skating from the 80s by today's standards.
How could she drop out of second place with a performance like that. You can't have artistry without technical strength. And kristi Yamaguchi could barely propel herself around the rink. The fight and focus went out of tonya's eyes at competitions after that abuse from the judges. And kristi just looked unconcerned like she knew the outcome.
Great Ina Bauer, I'm glad they got rid of the person talking to them as they are getting their marks. Must be a very awkward position to be in. Also you see Tonya's face as the marks came down? She looked like she could break someone's knee... oh... wait. Nevermind.
She was just a total prodigy, but she unfortunately didn't live up to her talent and potential. She just had such a natural presence in the ice, she was superior to almost all the skaters of her era! She just lacked the artistic content- which she had proven she COULD do!
Chris Coyne how, though? she didn’t lack it. the thing is: she doesn’t express herself in a soft and delicate way. she expressed herself in a confident and even aggressive way. people can’t deal well with confident women so they say she lacks artistry. she doesn’t. she doesn’t lack it, she’s just not your graceful baby pink outfit figure skater.
Tonya pretty much did what she wanted, despite hopping from coach to coach and back again. She was with Dody, then Diane, then fired Dody and went back to Diane (I think that's right). Diane was like...well as long as the checks clear, I guess...
LOL..."spins are really fast"...I think this is the best I've seen Tonya skate, by her standards not by the skating world's standards..had she stayed on course from that point on you would think she would've been the one to bear for the gold medal at the 92 Olympics...WHAT HAPPENED?... Not that I was a Tonya fan..hell I wasn't even a fan of figure skating until I watched the US ladies sweep the podium at world's in 91. But I became an Instant Kristi and Nancy fan. But what to Tonya that she was totally a different skater by 91-92. She wasn't that great and her jumps became inconsistant...how did she win nationals in 91 and made the world team in 91-92 and the Olympics in 92. This is the reason why I hate judged sports..the wrong people always get picked..not the people that actually worked hard and show talent.
+Tyler Chandler She got out of shape, its unfortunate, that she didnt train her ass off for the '92 Olympics, she could have at LEAST came away with a silver medal, because it seems no matter how many triple axels she did, they were giving Kristi the gold.
Tonya like Midori was great jumper and spinner when on, unfortunately both lacked grace, elegance, and good choreography/interpretation. She double footed the lutz and it wasn't in combo like Yamaguchis. Tonya's physique looks a bit thick here just like in 92-94. One great year in 91 when she was in better/leaner shape too. 94 nationals - well we know what was behind her winning there. Too bad she never came clean - about knowing the plan for the 'whack job'. Society forgives - it could've been a great story for her - if she told the truth - Even now.
RachelDavisMatthews lacked grace? she’s confident. why a confidant woman makes people so mad... she’s confident and aggressive. you can be graceful at the same time too.
![[4K60P] Torvill and Dean "Boléro" 1994 Lillehammer Olympics Exhibition](/img/n.gif)
I think after this Tonya was like, "If you jerks are gonna score me low, I'll land a triple axel and then you'll have no choice but to place me first."
Yes! I love it!!
Unfair artistry marks. Her artistry here was wonderful, and coupled with her unsurpassed strength, these marks are just not fair.
i love Tonya....but it (artistry) wasn't wonderful.....she should have been scored higher and been a part of the team however!!
I really dont get how people say she lacked the artistry in her performances... the emotions one gets from watching her skating are just overwhelming.. yes, she wasnt the fine princess with the fragile emotions.. because she clearly displayed strength, confidence, joy, and all these emotions felt real...
Nada BEN EL HOUSSAIN Exactly. And none of the contrived hoopla the others did for the judges and to look 'the part' as an ice princess
I always thought she could “feel” her music more than Nancy Kerrigan. They both had odd music choices, especially with medleys, but I have a feeling that Tonya would not have skated to anything that she didn’t like or could feel.
Always very naturally musical and musically sensitive as well.
Tonya's Ina Bauer was absolutely breathtaking in this beauty of routine!
Her abilities were something never seen before in sport, in skating especially. A young,women,had never done the things she did and could do on that ice. The other women just didn't have the strength to land the jumps like she did, jump as high, spin as fast, everything. Her death drop was huge too. Even the male skaters were shocked by her abilities. The height she got was crazy. She needs more credit!
Her generations Elain Zayak!
Um, no, that would be Midori Ito, not Tonya Harding. Tonya was great, but Ito was the ground breaker and she was better.
Ito was not the better jumper or skater. On jumps, Harding had the better air position and ice coverage. Harding was also the better spinner of the two with more speed, more flexibility, and better positions. Overall, Harding had better skating skills (e.g., edge work in such moves as the Ina Bauer).
Mindoro ito might have something to say about abilities never seen before. I think Harding got hosed because of “politics” and the scoring system, but Ito was as capable jumping wise (if not better). 🤷♂️🤷♂️
@@jondavwal13 Midori was definitely a trailblazer, but only thing she had better over Tonya was the consistency.
Say what you will about Tonya, but you can’t deny that she was an INCREDIBLE skater
Tonya Harding was the most exciting figure skater of all time....this is two years prior to her best year....1991 whens he debuted her triple axel and making history that nobody can take away from her.
As a former judge, I can say this was politics. Technically there is no way Tonya should have been placed behind Kristi. She deserved all 5/9s for technical. Both of them had some weakness artistically but if you look at Kristi's program you can see there are some really awkward moments. Her Ina Bauer was awful and some of her jumps were unchecked. The layback had poor form and her spins were not strong. I know everyone will kill me, but Tonya deserved the world spot over Kristi, that year.
metsedudenj I completely agree
Absolutely agree. Tonya should have won the free skate and been sent to Worlds over Kristi. (Jill was going to win the event as long as she placed no lower than 3rd in the free skate.)
100% agree. Why were the politics against Tonya though? Was it her upbringing or she just didnt have a story that fit the narrative like younger newbie Kristi or established star Jill, after having had to wait her turn behind Jill, Caryn, Debi for years.
The politics of waiting your turn, the way Tonya did not fit the mold, her lack of polish on and off the ice, etc. Tonya was a disaster in compulsories, and this is why she was so far back. But Kristi was adorable on the ice, but Tonya technically was so far superior to anyone that night. I had her first in the LP, Yamaguchi second. Harding should have been on the 1990 team and blew her chance and in 1993 she should have withdrawn and petitioned onto the team.
I agree with all you said. And I saw Kristi got 5.8s and 5.9s in technical merit here, if that is the case Tonya should have had 5.9s and 6.0s. I would give them about the same artistic marks or Kristi even a bit lower. Jill probably would have won anyway due to figures but she should have been 3rd at best in the LP and Tonya should have won both the short and long here and been on the team over Kristi easily.
I love how her excitement comes spilling out as soon as she is finished
I have been texting Tonya a message on 23/11/2021 and she replied to me a
week later on 29th November at exactly 0:43am with a big surprise on my
face. it was such a great pleasure to get a messaged back from Tonya.
=) I am now a fan of her. she is 51 years old now.
I just found this performance of hers and WOW. Gotta be one of my faves. Blown away, then blown away again at the low marks😤 I think Tonya knows she’s boss tho, and I do too✌️
She slayed!!!!! Sooooooo talented
Her Ina Bauers were always to die for.
Kelsey the one in 91 exhibitions though, she circled all the arena with that!
@@TheDaveIAmm yes!!! She held it for so long, and it seemed effortless!!
Tonya Harding, one of the greatest skaters ever. ⛸⭐️
They robbed her
I agree too
I don't care what her husband did, she was an awesome skater. Poor choice for a husband did her in. That damn gold digger!
This is another example of Tonya Harding trying to beat an UNDULY scorecard... Tonya Harding has got all the other skaters beat!
Loved her Ina Bauer and Pivot!
Oh yeah and her HUGE JUMPS!
Tough choice for the judges? Hardly. Tonya won the competition and they screwed her.
She was a wonderful skater that was treated so unfair!!
Tonya Harding is exciting and suspenseful!
It's because USFSA doesn't like to reward deserving girls who were brought up poor. They believed that somehow a poor girl like Tonya, who lived in a car with her Dad, did not deserve recognition.
Why on earth would her coach not have taken her in?? I don't understand that!
Erm they didnt care if you were poor. The real problem was the 6.0 system judged by reputation, which led to Tonya being underscored.
beautiful Ina Bauer
amazing skating!
I remember watching this at the time and thinking, how did she not score higher?
5:22 makes me so sad, the expression on her face. I have always loved Tonya and her skating SO much.
She is simply the best.
Disgraceful judging. Tonya should have clubbed the whole USFSA on the knees and not just Nancy for all the shit they put her through over the years. Harding was the clear winner of these Nationals. Yamaguchi and Trenary could have gone either way for 2nd place and the other spot on the World team behind Tonya.
That comment had me crying in laughter.. she should have done just that 🤣🤣
LOL she was innocent after all but I agree... they are so corrupt
Kristi Yamaguchi’s reaction shows she thought so too
she wasn’t good
Very very nice!
So sad. She was so elated and you see her face drop as the scores become evident. Poor kid.
Whoever said that Tonya Harding doesn't have the finesse doesn't know what they're talking about... they're making up an imaginary comment!
Tonya Harding had every right to bitch about this sort of treatment, Now everyone knows.
Looking back at this you really have to wonder how Jill Trenary managed to stay ahead of her compatriots at the time, and even win worlds 1990.
Jill and Kristi were favoured and guided by the U.S. Figure Skating Association. It was so obvious.
this is one of the clear scoring robberies that were alluded to in the movie... 5:22
PV1230 i think this is the Sleeping Bag scene in I, Tonya
dID YOU NOTICE HOW PISSED SHE LOOKED AT THE END?
I'd be pissed too!
Yep, saw it.
It's because USFSA doesn't like to reward deserving girls who were brought up poor. They believed that somehow a poor girl like Tonya, who lived in a car with her Dad, did not deserve recognition.
@@TressBraga I think she's being judged for her clothing. Maybe if her dresses were made by Vera Wang she would have won more!
@@TressBraga You know, I can't possibly understand why on earth her coach at the time, Diane Rawlinson, didn't just let Tonya live with her rather than live in a car. I imagine she had plenty of room, and I'm not sure but I don't even think she had children. Knowing Tonya was LIVING in a vehicle, I don't understand why she didn't just say, "Tonya, why don't you come stay with me?"
What a cool hair😍
She had the potential to be a far more artistic skater than she became... this program shows it! She just needed more classical music appreciation and dance training.
Agreed.
Tonya has always been characterized by a strong skating and gutsy confidence was perhaps their undoing as they drop their target ...
After I watched this vastly underrated performance at Nationals, I was hoping she'd show up when Stars on Ice toured my city that summer. She was there (actually was slotted second in the program), but she only did a few doubles in her routine, and I was so disappointed she didn't use the opportunity to show off what she could really do.
feels so embarrassing coming here after seeing nacys performance. makes me wonder how did nancy even get to the place she did????? she’s so average. avarage to below avarage.
I've watched Tanya over the years coming up in the figure skating competitions. She had the jumps. And she had the artistic impression. She also had the politics against her because she didn't come from money. She only had her dad for financial support. Nancy had the money behind her. How else could she have afforded Vera Wang skating outfits while Tanyas outfits were made by a relative. It is clearly obvious that the judges were more impressed with money then skill. I thought Nancy skating was boring. Yet her companion Paul Wyle s
Skating was fantastic. I couldn't believe they were coached by the same person.Nancy had no spark, no corisma, just bland skating. Kristy Yamaguchi was graceful the way she flowed out of her jumps. And Oksana had the fire and grace to beat Nancy fair and SQUARE. I wish Tanya would have been more responsible with her health. She should not have smoked with asthma, she should not have taken up with Jeff, and she should have beaten Nancy on the ice . Plus had fewer equipment problems. I think Tanya could have saved her skating future if she would have told someone what Jeff was planning. But she kept quiet. That was her downfall. That she lost confidence in herself.
Joyce Pietryga I think the Jeff thing is easier said than done. When you're in an abusive
Relationship - which she was- you're often tightly controlled by your abuser. Tonya was raised by an abusive mom
And basically handed off to an abusive, gold-digging man. Of course her self-esteem was shot!
Nancy didn’t come from money her dad had to work 3 jobs to pay for her skating. If it hadn’t been for Nancy’s skating, her parents would’ve been in a more secure footing financially. Her Vera Wang costumes were donated. It’s true that Nancy had more sponsorship money & I believe her family had friends with money that helped out, or so it was claimed at the time. The difference was that Nancy was “white bread” & Tonya was “white trash.” I think politics were Tonya’s downfall. Back then, it was apparently common knowledge in the skating community that judges were giving credit for bad jumps in competition that a skater was landing in practice. They were also prone to succumbing to kiss ups. Coaches would invite judges to practices, ask their advice about music & costumes, programs, etc. I got the impression from the few people I knew into skating that the way into a judge’s heart was to wear the color they suggested or skate to the music the recommended. It stinks & I would not be surprised if this garbage is still happening to some extent, they just have to be more careful.
@@AuntStina exactly. Nancy didn't come from money either. But that made up scene in I, Tonya with Tonya & the judge encapsulated the issue. They wanted a Grace Kelly, not a tough girl who could kick butt. I liked Nancy too. Why couldn't judges appreciate both of them & be fair on whoever did better on that day.
All these years later, Nancy will be remembered more for her poor attitude towards Oksana Baiul than for her actual skating. Tonya will be known as the first American woman to land the triple axel in competition, the first woman to land two triple axels in the same competition, and the first person to land a triple axel in combination. She's also one of the most exciting skaters to of all time to watch......like a great bird of prey coming in for the kill as she prepares for her jumps. As for Nancy? Great gowns, beautiful gowns.
@@tb4522 Just pointing out, the scene where Tonya confronted a judge about her low scores did happen, but it occurred backstage after a competition, not out on the ice in front of the audience, and Tonya never used any profanities or cussing towards the judge. So yeah, based on a real event, but greatly dramatized for the screen.
She did not hide her displeasure on the artistic scores. Ha ha
Wish to god she'd taken her training seriously later on. Such talent.
A lot of U.S. skaters didn't take their training seriously. Where the skaters from former Eastern Bloc countries were upset because they thought 3 hours of ice time wasn't enough, the Americans complained it was too much. Tonya wasn't the only one. Nancy, the chosen one, did her share of complaining, too.
Tonya had money issues given her economic background and how the United States Figure Skating Association did not support her fully and promote her advanced talent. Meanwhile, Japan knew they had something very special and revolutionary with Midori Ito, so they put her forward. Yes, Tonya had moments where she didn't train as hard, but these were later in her career which was the time of still being poor, her marriage with Jeff was troubled (abuse included), and she just simply grew tired of not being given her dues despite achieving things. It would be like talking to a wall. That could cause someone to almost give up or become turned off by the sport or whatever it is they tried.
Much better than Trenary. She deserves the title.
I don’t see any 1988 videos of Tonya’s skating competitions.
@ft192 The ways the rules were back then, the skater who earned the medal at the previous year's Worlds had the spot...not the country. Therefore, the US did indeed have three spots--two for whomever they wished to send, plus one for 1988 World medalist Debi Thomas. Since she did not compete that year, the US lost her spot and could only send two. After 92, it changed to the placement belonging to the country, not individual skater.
In some ways her style and presentation were better in her earlier years, like here. Look at that Ina Bauer move -- she gave it much more extension than she would in later years. I feel like she got more cautious later in her career, even when she landed her jumps.
What do today's skaters think of her? Do they admire her or scorn her? I can never tell if when her name is used as a punch line, it's done with disdain or envy. She was a remarkable athlete and utterly unique. What does that say about us? Shouldn't we be trying to create more Hardings? I look at this, compare it to today's skaters and have to laugh.
The comments I've seen from today's skaters show her in a very positive light. She has become an icon! Sort of the "anti-hero" of skating.
Tonya should have won..shame on judges
@chattychar Yes you are totally correct. I wouldnt have noticed if not for your quote. But it is basically the same. This is much better thou! I love watching Tonya skate when she skates well!
Her Ina Bauer is as good as Arakawas (sp?)
No ladies out nowadays can get jumps that high. World of figure skating was too insular and did her wrong
When you are on top of your game somebody will always try to pull you down... just like a box full of ants, one finds its way out the others will pull him down!
I'm the only one the Olympic panel qualified in 1959 at one years old.
Why were there only 2 spots for Worlds for the USA? Thomas and Trenary finished 3rd and 5th at 1988 Worlds.
Because back then, a country only got 3 spots if the prior year's Worlds medalist was returning to compete. Since Debi Thomas did not return, the U.S. only had 2 spots in 1989.
@@barbaraforbes5394 thanks for the reply. Im assuming the rule changed for the 1991 season? US world medalists trenary and cook didnt compete in 91 worlds.
What a pathetic, senseless rule back then. The skaters aren't solely representing themselves in competition, but their country! And did they ever hear about, retirement or going professional? Absurd.
@@alexsdb9712 Skating didn't garner much excitement (which fueled the monetary support for the field) past the amateur levels...ironically, till the Harding/Kerrigan thing a few years later - which generated SO much excitement - that the post-amateur world became a lot bigger of a deal.
I'm only olympic team member Cynthia as Tonya Osana Katrina...
Tonya was so worried in 93/94 about Kerrigan being the "chosen one." But Tonya had many fans & many of her performances were fawned over. Her ability did NOT go unrecognized. Her problem was that she treated her "artistry" like it was an afterthought. Artistry was HALF the mark & she ignored it. She was brilliant here but they chose Yamaguchi who while immature was more polished & consistent. If she had gone through an artistic transformation like Boitano did in '88 she might have done even better. Kerrigan was not that formidable a skater. 93/94 could've been Tonya's time to win Worlds but she got bitter & out of shape & did not grow artistically.
+officeaddict33 So true, she just didn't have any positive influences encouraging her in her life. Maybe her coach might have nagged her about it, but she seemed to avoid it, she needed a better management. She could have and SHOULD have been a big star.
Robbed
That hair though...
Unlike any other sport ice skating is about striving for perfection.... relative to boxing or baseball there's no such thing as a perfect punch or perfect hit!
Her jumps were game changing, but those of you claiming her artistry was great should clean your glasses. Even by 1989 standards her artistry wasn't good.
And if she'd been better at figures, she would've placed higher overall. Her figures were NOT GOOD.
You can't judge skating from the 80s by today's standards.
Yamaguchi has two clean lutzes. Only way I can see why she got marked lower
Kristy's lutzes took off from the edge; they were also cheated with pre-rotation. Tonya's technique on the lutz was out-of-this-world exquisite.
What music is this?
The first and third faster sections are from Dvorak's New World Symphony. The slow middle section is from Glazunov's The Seasons.
What’s this music?
Dvorak's New World Symphony
How rude to make an interview in the middle of the kiss and cry!!
This was a common practise in the past. It stopped after the early 1990s
How could she drop out of second place with a performance like that. You can't have artistry without technical strength. And kristi Yamaguchi could barely propel herself around the rink. The fight and focus went out of tonya's eyes at competitions after that abuse from the judges. And kristi just looked unconcerned like she knew the outcome.
Tonya Harding was get in unduly scorecard the other skaters were all skating plain vanilla!
What a 'do ! She looks 40 yrs old and Reba McIntyre on skates.
Great Ina Bauer, I'm glad they got rid of the person talking to them as they are getting their marks. Must be a very awkward position to be in. Also you see Tonya's face as the marks came down? She looked like she could break someone's knee... oh... wait. Nevermind.
+wackybrinyc29 Dude, that joke is so old. Let it go. Damn. The skating world isn't impressed.
of course it's old. So is the footage, so is the whole thing. It's a joke within a joke. See.the. meta.
also, why are you assuming I'm a dude?
I already placed in winter Olympics at seven years old royal at seven years old. only olympic team member. Art form not for competion. Tonya
She was just a total prodigy, but she unfortunately didn't live up to her talent and potential. She just had such a natural presence in the ice, she was superior to almost all the skaters of her era! She just lacked the artistic content- which she had proven she COULD do!
Chris Coyne how, though? she didn’t lack it. the thing is: she doesn’t express herself in a soft and delicate way. she expressed herself in a confident and even aggressive way. people can’t deal well with confident women so they say she lacks artistry. she doesn’t. she doesn’t lack it, she’s just not your graceful baby pink outfit figure skater.
Prodigy - yes, that is the word for her!
@@MariaHelena-eb7ds I wholeheartedly agree with you!!
She needed a a different coach.
Tonya pretty much did what she wanted, despite hopping from coach to coach and back again. She was with Dody, then Diane, then fired Dody and went back to Diane (I think that's right). Diane was like...well as long as the checks clear, I guess...
LOL..."spins are really fast"...I think this is the best I've seen Tonya skate, by her standards not by the skating world's standards..had she stayed on course from that point on you would think she would've been the one to bear for the gold medal at the 92 Olympics...WHAT HAPPENED?... Not that I was a Tonya fan..hell I wasn't even a fan of figure skating until I watched the US ladies sweep the podium at world's in 91. But I became an Instant Kristi and Nancy fan. But what to Tonya that she was totally a different skater by 91-92. She wasn't that great and her jumps became inconsistant...how did she win nationals in 91 and made the world team in 91-92 and the Olympics in 92. This is the reason why I hate judged sports..the wrong people always get picked..not the people that actually worked hard and show talent.
+Tyler Chandler She didn't train. She was like Bobek and like Bowman. great athletes who didn't have the discipline off ice.
+Tyler Chandler She got out of shape, its unfortunate, that she didnt train her ass off for the '92 Olympics, she could have at LEAST came away with a silver medal, because it seems no matter how many triple axels she did, they were giving Kristi the gold.
Yep silver in 1992 would have meant an entirely different scenario in 1994 for all the top ladies.
Soooooo.....if Yamaguchi had decided to compete in 94 Olympics - who would've Harding clubbed? Yama or Kerigs? Or both? lol
RachelDavisMatthews oh God. Fuck off
lmao -
Lol I think Jeff would’ve had yamaguchi clubbed
If she skated like this at the 94 Olympics, she wouldn't need to whack Nancy; Tonya would've medaled that year at Lillehammer Olympics.
Tonya like Midori was great jumper and spinner when on, unfortunately both lacked grace, elegance, and good choreography/interpretation. She double footed the lutz and it wasn't in combo like Yamaguchis. Tonya's physique looks a bit thick here just like in 92-94. One great year in 91 when she was in better/leaner shape too. 94 nationals - well we know what was behind her winning there. Too bad she never came clean - about knowing the plan for the 'whack job'. Society forgives - it could've been a great story for her - if she told the truth - Even now.
RachelDavisMatthews lacked grace? she’s confident. why a confidant woman makes people so mad... she’s confident and aggressive. you can be graceful at the same time too.
Out of shape? Did we watch the same video?
@@granny58 Really! That's what I want to know!!