How to Calculate an Overframe
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- How do you normally frame a California valley (over frame or layover roof)? The math is actually pretty straightforward. In this video, I'll show the math and how easy it is to calculate these roofs. Roof framing is fun, but it's a lot more fun when the components are cut on the ground and then assembled up on the roof. A layover valley is a great way to handle irregular or split pitch roofs.
I want to thank / morton.ben for posting such great work on Instagram. Way back in the early 2000's over on the JLC forums, the discussion came up about how to figure out the bevel for the sleeper valley (valley board nailed to the roof). Ken Drake posted the math and we cut it and proved the math worked. That was the last time I beveled the sleepers. Fast forward to this year and Ben explaining the advantages.
I couldn't care less about having a beveled sleeper for roof sheathing for the same reason I don't bevel the tops of my ridges or hips. But the time it takes to bevel is more than made up for by not having to calculate any adjustments where the sleepers land on the roof. Simplicity is the highest form of elegance. Too many steps and the risk of error goes up.
At first the process might he hard to follow, but re-watch it and post your questions. I'll do my best to answer them. If you are one of those people who would rather not use the math and just measure and cut, great. That works very well too. This channel isn't about proving what's the best way, just showing another way to reach the same goal.
Thanks for watching.
Please remember, I’m not showing the best way of doing something, just what works well for us.
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7:08 into the video:
"the more nails you put into something, the more likely it is wrong."
Very elegant!
Keep up the good work.
Love Sketchup and always create drawings for the tricky parts. Have a cross-vaulted gambrel roof to do with different plate heights and would otherwise struggle in the field figuring the angles, valley bevels and such. If a client asks if something would be hard to built I respond, no, I've already built it once. Good video.
Bingo Bango baby! keep it up guys, really enjoy watching these videos
Thanks so much!
Perfect timing! I was sitting there Friday doing an overbuild thinking about how nice it would be to precut / prebuild an overbuild and lift it into place and nail it to the trusses. My problem is the math in figuring out all of the lengths and angles.
Excellent video brother
This sure beats futzing around with blind valleys, and the bevel is ideal for applying tapes. thx
Kyle rolls the tape or it gets the hose again.
Your videos are great man keep it up , you should be up there with the rest of the big time UA-cam woodworkers , I’m just wondering when you do what you call your California jacks , why don’t you work from your rafters to the point in descending order instead of your arbitrary 12 inches
Thank you very much for sharing this! I will have to re-watch a number of times and actually practice with it, but this is super helpful.
Great video
You lost me at Sketchup. I am not in the trades so this is really foreign to me. But, I love it. 😆
Do you have a tool to mark the angle cut on the sheeting or do you just figure out the measurement on a 48” sheet and chalk the line?
Thanks for making the video, the sketch up part was really above and beyond. Kind of a specific and perhaps inconsequential question but if you are going 2 ft on centre and have to use H clips is it still possible to start sheeting from the top down or does it get too awkward? Starting from the top looks like a better way for a few reasons but we have to use h clips most of the time so I don't want to try this then after the first row regret it if you have already tried lol also, do you guys have to space the seams of the sheeting or does zip not need it it? If you read this - bless your heart lol
It’s not so bad using H clips while sheathing from top down. It does get awkward though. I just nail down my first row, then as I do the second row, I lay down a sheet, put my H clips on that sheet and then push the whole sheet with H clips up into position and start nailing
So to figure the sleeper bevel cut, I subtract the roof pitch and the overroof pitch from 90 degrees?
My mind is melting trying to keep up with the math he goes through...
Ouch! My head hurts!
idk how to start with sketch up id love to start.
How do you figure out the angle on rafter where it hits the sleeper, is it just the difference between 90* off the plumb cut? 26.5/90 would be 90-26.5 = 63.5?
Lots of jargon made this hard to follow. I love the content regardless.
Math is awesome.
long long, to the long. haha sharp to share to sharp
I was wondering why no string line on ridge and then you said I eyeballed it. Nice
How.do.you find.the backing angle for each pitch on the build calc? Or do you mean the backing angle of the hip!
Ok, here's one for you.
I have not found any method to lay this out other than eyeballing.
Got 6/12 pitch truss roof (45' long x10' at the peak.
They are returning onto a 5/12 pitch existing roof and the extended ridge is approximately. 3' above the existing roof's ridge.
I plan to make the transition by extending the existing roof on the opposite side of the over frame as a small hip framed section.
The biggest problem I've had is getting the correct angle for the sleepers since I'm working with points in space.
I'm an old man 77 as would just as soon be done with roof work but I will get it figured out so that it all flows nice and straight, no humps or dips.
LMK if you know of a way to work it out mathematically.
Appreciate any insights you may have
Excellent video so the overhangs are going to be different length right
Yep. No one cares around here, so we never frame equal overhangs.
@@AwesomeFramers ok I think that makes it a little bit easier and thank you for the videos
In this tutorial, to make it understandable, you are going to need hand written formulas with corresponding pictures. It's very difficult imo to visualize the calculators actions into physical cuts.
Anyone who can’t follow your stellar explanations shouldn’t be framing or performing complex calculus in their head!
Hi there. I tried entering your keystrokes on the buildcalc app and I 49.18 as my sheathing angle not the 39 your getting? Is there something I'm missing? Would love to be able to do this kind of work by calculation but I'm a newb and a bit scared to do it.
I believe you didn't do convert 5 inch pitch
Would love to know how you got so good with the calculator. I've always just built everything on the roof and snapped lines for rake walls.
practice practice practice
Have a look at FramingCalc, you may find it a little more intuitive. I can send you a promo code
@@framingcalc1890 willing to try it out!
@@justincreaser5482 NNH64K74MKNA on ios or WF2DSG72CNR1NHVNZCB3AZN on android. Thanks :)
@@framingcalc1890 can you send me a promo code. I love Kyle's @awesomeframers vids...I think he and Ryan @roofslayer2628 do a great job in explaining complicated framing. I've never gotten into the roof skill like these two craftsmen, but always yearn to learn something new. Thank you.
Just another way of doing the maths for the bevel on the side of the valley board,
5/12 & 7/12 Mix pitch roof
atan of sin (Plumb cut angle for Hip or Valley) x tan(the plan angle)
atan of sin (71.27°) x tan (54.46)= atan 52.9°
Bevel angle = 52.9°
I have a question so the head-cut is 56.60 and the tail-cut is 33.40
what cad program are you using?
Sketch Up
I tried this method but I didn’t have a Martinez titanium square so it didn’t work for me.
😂😂😂
Can I somehow get a close up of how the sleeper planes in at the bottom?
No, the roofing has been on for over a year
How do you find the backing angle on the calculator
You can read the tutorials for the BuildCalc app, or follow the instructions in the middle of this video for where I get the 56.6 angle. It calculated the backing bevel at the same time.
For the sleeper backing bevel it is 90 - (sum of the backing angles). So find the backing angle for each pitch, add them together and subtract from 90.
Which calculator do you have
I've always been told to shingle my ZIP tape and I've believed in the reasoning, am I delusional?? And yes we roll our tape
If you know of the angles around your structure when it is shaped like a triangle 🔺️, with math shouldn't you be able to figure out the others?
Nice shirt
@drdecks gave it to me 😁 then I flexed and it tore
reping the Dr. decks deepV
Yeah, I didn't think that one through
Here before Austin Burkes
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
Well, now when you hang your pencil there it will hang that much closer to your hands for that super quickdraw.
Ok, I like the idea of beveling the valley board(sleeper), keeps a nice, straight, clean valley. But beveling the plywood into the valley? Really?
That was a joke about beveling the ply. I have never done that and never will 😂😂😂 just demonstration to show what angle it would be.
Easy
👍👍👍👍👍😻😻😻😻😻
I know this is the industry standard on how to frame exactly what you framed but this is not a good way of framing. Sure it's faster and cheaper to do it your way but it in the old days the lower truss/rafters would have been blocked in between each one instead of a board laying on top of the sheathing. That upper roof would be open and accessible from the attic space and could be filled with insulation. Now if there is a leak, accessing that area is impossible and if it's a small leak it can cause larger damage over a longer period of time. My home that's built in the 1920s is framed like I mentioned and I can see from inside the attic if anything bad is going on.
Allow me to explain the structural side and alleviate your concerns.
Our engineer here in seismic zone D2 specifies that we fully sheathe under the layover roof. This is stronger in an earthquake, much stronger than true valleys. You would definitely fair better this this house than your 1920's in the "big one".
Regarding ventilation, both roofs are adequately vented and we cut an access from the main roof to the lay over roof.
I'm sorry, but every one of your concerns lacks merit because they are all planned for.
@@AwesomeFramers well, good to know that you framed it right, with access and venting. However, I see this framed incorrectly ( or at least what I see is incorrectly) regularly in the industry. There is a new track home subdivision where every single home was framed exactly like I mentioned and I actually talked to the framers so I know there was no misunderstanding on what my eyes saw. As for my 1920s home.....well it's in California, and only 35 miles from San Francisco and 15 miles from Napa. It has already survived the 1989 "big one" earthquake and the recent Napa fault line earthquake without even a crack in the stucco. That's with the original foundation, with no rebar or bolts. It helps when your home is built with quality lumber with 16d nails that make a current 16d nail look like a toy. Try pulling a nail out of 100 year old wood.... The 100 year old nails that I have pulled out look like they were installed yesterday and I need a 3 foot crow bar to pull them otherwise they won't even budge. Soil conditions make a big difference in the felt effects of an earthquake, luckily I am on Sandy loam, compared to the adobe clay that is everywhere else.
@@djtheg6819 I think we agree then that it isn't the over framing that is the problem, once again it is the lack of skilled installation.
I am so happy, happy, happy that other carpenters also run on the Tread mill inside w/makeup & a thong on!
Not sure I would need sunglasses ??
Oh how did I (we) know about the thong? Your partners let it loose on their IG pages!!
Nope no thong 😂😂
Good info but, please turn off the music while you are talking. very distracting.
The more nails you put into something the more likely it's wrong. Truer words have ne'er been spoken. Wonder why you hear the sawzall running? That's why..
More nails...more wrong. Lol
I have no clue what he is saying.
A waste of wood/resources. Takes more cost instead of just simply framing the roof to begin with.
Our engineer specifies the roof this way because it is stronger in an earthquake.