IMO .. This proves the whole system of Psychiatry is a sham. How long before claiming "I was depressed" gets one off with murder charge? .. Not long I suspect.
@@tarstarkusz That is incorrect. Oxford Languages defines personality as "1. the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character and 2. a famous person, especially in entertainment or sports." A physically and mentally healthy person's personality is largely formed by the time a child enters school at about 6 to 7 years-old, yet, during adolescence, apoptosis of unused neural pathways is meant to make decision-making in the brain more cognitively-emotionally efficacious, effective, and efficient. Unfortunately, those with personality disorders who are in a state of arrested development that is out of sync with their actual ages and stages of life due to a lack of good parenting (i.e., garbage in, garbage out) will and do have problems coping with life's challenges, which includes taking responsibility for one's actions. Critical growth periods form and reform neurobiology across the human developmental life span, but they are most pronounced from conception until approximately 26 years of age. However, if a person suffers brain injury from a stroke, lack of oxygen, dementia, etc., his or her personality may be permanently changed. The brain can and will recover up to a point, if possible, based upon the severity of the damage and the previous foundation laid during childhood and young adulthood.
“Jeff the killer” is a creepy pasta character that dates back to 2008 about a 13 yr old who is brutally attacked by bullies, carves a smile on his face and becomes a serial killer. The fact that this kid physically imitated (the cuts) this story and invoked this character to address perceived wrongs in his own life is to me a significant argument against DID. Invoking a specific character in a story alongside the absence of any true dissociation and his presentation on the phone presents more to me as his desire to kill being intentionally directed through a story character as a way to distance himself from the act
This is so outrageous! This woman survived over 60 stab wounds which is torture! And this little creep gets off scott free because of incompetent mental health “experts.” It’s sickening. They will have more blood on their hands when there’s another victim. I bet a future employer or girlfriend won’t be able to find out about his past because juvenile records are sealed. 🤯
I agree with you that the state of mental health assessment in the courts and in the world wields too much power, and it is given too much respect. In my opinion, it's not better or more reliable than palm reading or astrology in my opinion. It's way too far away from being a testable, repeatable science. In this case, however, it was trial lawyers that got him off with a believed complaint about how his case was tried as an adult, rather than a child that could be treated for DID. This is outlined at 07:20 in the video. These lawyers were not concerned with what is right or what is wrong; they are concerned with winning and building a strong reputation for success in trials. Lawyers got his case moved to juvenile, he pleaded guilty to aggravated murder, and he had to be released at age 21. I think that if court appointed credible clinicians vastly disagree in their assessments, that all of their testimonial assessments and judgments should be tossed as irrelevant to the case at hand, and the court should automatically rule the individual is fully mentally able to stand trial. It seems like it is the only method that makes sense, since the mental health profession is so far from being a reliable science.
@@troy3456789 Your post is music to my ears. Yet, let's put this situation in its situational context. Public health's core functions are a) needs assessment, b) policy development, and c) evaluation. For needs assessment, the only way to get from exploratory to explanatory research, which yield qualitatively coarse-grained data is to use the observational and survey methods of data collection using questionnaires and other validated assessment instruments. Since higher forms of scientific knowledge are built upon previous scientific knowledge, different types of research, such as a) case reports, opinion papers, and letters; b) animal trials and in vitro studies; c) cross sectional studies; d) case-control studies; e) cohort studies; f) randomized control trials; and g) meta-analyses and systematic reviews lend themselves to future studies going from weakest to strongest in a triangular pyramid, sand dune, or mountain of data derived from population-based studies found under the normal curve. Public and organizational policies are developed and aligned to provide financial support for such studies along the local, state, and federal levels. For example, federal government grants-in-aid programs are a) block grants, categorical grants, and general revenue sharing that provide funding for public health infrastructure. In evaluation of physical and mental health intervention programs, you need evidence that is found in the results of fine-grained data. In healthcare, clinical decision-support systems are accuracy and precision. For the purpose of definitively determining whether or not a defendant in the criminal justice system is a murderous psychopath, jury members need to hear from experts in the analyses of fine-grained data, such as DNA. Another form of evidence that is much more accurate in detecting lying psychopaths than a fallible polygraph test is a functional MRI. Using neurobiological fMRIs scans to assess empathetic pathways that are either being used or not being used as per the Golden Rule by guilty and/or guiltless criminal defendants is hard evidence that they know right from wrong; have a mental illness, such as PTSD; can be properly tried in mentally age-appropriate courts; and can be rehabilitated, if found guilty through an accumulation of other evidence. This process would be a quantitatively, experimentally, empirically testable and repeatable form of hard scientific facts in quantitative research that through meta-analyses would prove itself over and over again.
Why do you say no one cared. Remember we only see what the creators present to us. This video specifically focuses on the murderer. Having said that, I find it disrespectful when channels don't acknowledge the suffering of victims and their loved ones
In modern society the victims are irrelevant and no one care for them, Argentina was one of the leading countries to put "criminals first victims never", look how they ended 😂😂😂
What don’t understand is, if the perpetrator claims an alternate personality as the “real killer,” why is the punishment different? The body did the actions from the mind. Who cares what the mind’s name is? Donovan and “Jeff” could serve time together.
Not to mention Donovan might be the alternate personality and Jeff is the main or real personality using Donovan as a cover. Like in the movie "Primal Fear".
@@twocents7495 Insane means you can't tell right from wrong and you can't distinguish reality from unreality. Some are faking it, of course, but others truly are insane. I feel that this particular guy is faking it.
@@olilumgbalu5653 thanks. I actually went through graduate school for psych, so understand the legal definition of NGRI. I’m speaking gut level, philosophically.
I'm a MH clinician. Early last year, I started treating a young woman for CTPSD. The many pre EMDR assessments she completed suggested, and later confirmed, that she met the criteria for DID. My approach has been "fragmented states of consciousness", rather than distinctive identities. Through therapy which has included EMDR, she's now centred in one state of consciousness, and aware of her long held multiple coping mechanisms which include the urge to dissociate when things get tough. I'm so proud of her courage to try and be the person she's aways been: ONE beautiful young women, with multiple traumas, multiple attempts to get through it, multiple adaptive strategies, but a big desire to be ONE thriving and successful human being.
I can hear my thoughts as different voices, sometimes with distinctive personalities. I was so afraid as a teen that it could be schizophrenia or DID but appearently it is a normal thing in autistics, as long as they KNOW, that it's just their different thoughts, sorted by the brain into the "on the one hand" "on the other hand" groups so to speak, or ego Id and superEgo or whatever you want to call the conflicting parts of your brain. I can watch me thinking and having emotions and there are parts within me that are very aggressiv, tempered by parts that are very kind. I pondered if DID happens, when you Lose the ability to "watch yourself think". You calling it fractions kind of feels like I could be right.
Cases like this are why I have so much fear for all the children on tiktok today who come upon the viral DID trend and decide that they, too, have this incredibly rare/possibly nonexistent condition. Even my own kid got swept up in it and we are still dealing with that. We don't need more Donovans. We need to address the thing in society that is making these kids claim to have every mental disorder under the sun as an explanation for/way to cope with the bizarre, absurd state of the world they have been born into.
Amen to this. The internet is so dangerous for preteens!! I had some guy exploit me for pics as a minor and use them against me when I was a minor. Keep teens off the internet or regulate it for sure..
I venture to say Donovan’s self proclaimed “bad side” that emerged was merely his darker impulses, not a dissociative identity named Jeff. Claiming the devil made him do it would have been a more believable confession. I agree with Dr. Grande that justice was not served in this case. I pray Donovan doesn’t give in to his darker impulses in the future.
It's interesting how Donovan could be so certain that Geoff wouldn't "hurt anybody else". Why would Donovan be so certain of how Geoff was going to behave in _this_ instance specifically? Obviously, it's because Donovan really didn't want to be shot or pepper sprayed. If Geoff was a real alternate personality, Donovan would have said something like "Be careful; I don't know what Geoff will do when you arrest me". Instead his fears betrayed the fact Geoff is an invention.
Thank you for saying DID is likely not real and if it is, it is EXTREMELY rare. There are so many people on the Internet who post about their "systems" like a bad dystopian young adult novel. And talk about DID like it's a super power or romanticize it. The one or two cases I've seen of DID in textbooks show it as a life ruining condition. Imagine waking up one day to find another person had control of your body yesterday and you cannot remember anything that happened. You wouldn't be able to function in life. You couldn't hold a job, have a family ect. And those cases were born out of extreme, unimaginable trauma. I don't believe any person posting about having DID and making, "I caught a switch on camera." Or, "Meet my alters." Videos actually have DID.
This! 100% this! I mean, I was diagnosed with DID in the 90s, so I guess I don't really know how I feel about "not likely real." At the same time, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that it's just some kind of manifestation of PTSD with other mental health disorders creating a similar effect. But from my own experience, it's not fun. It's having conversations I don't remember having, which has sometimes ruined personal relationships. It's made it incredibly difficult to hold a job without serious work and intervention through the help of counseling and specialists. I don't think being unable to have a job or a family is accurate, but the key thing allowing that to happen is years and years of treatment to deal with the triggers, traumas, and all of that. I mean, to say you couldn't have a job or a family, well, that would go for schizophrenia, or severe PTSD from severe abuse and trauma, but that's not the case. Treatment is key. Aside from the fact that I don't agree it ruins your ability to have a life of your own, because, again, that's what trauma specialists and treatment are for, regardless of diagnosis, I absolutely hate how people online make it look like happy fun times. It's not cute. It's not fun. It's not catching switches on video. There are so many people who use it as a means to issue threats, say hurtful things, and in general be cruel, and write it off as "Oh, that was just my system persecutor." Um... what? Claiming their crimes were their alter... claiming that they need to be treated as children and get angry when people don't respect it... Again, diagnosis aside, because maybe it's actually PTSD, but when something triggers me, being a scared child is not fun for me or anyone around me. It's not cute and silly. It's incredibly frustrating for everyone involved. It's not silly or cute. It's horrible, and I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, because I would gladly give this up if I had the ability to do so. Whether you call this DID or write it off as severe PTSD triggers, flashbacks, the whole nine, doesn't matter to me. I don't care what the diagnosis actually is. At the end of the day, I'd much rather not have to deal with any of it, and I don't understand why anyone would choose to brag about having this diagnosis or make it sound fun.
I do think it's real, and it is rare. Both are accurate statements. It's just controversial because psychiatrists don't do their due diligence and has muddied the water.
@@KayosHybrid The problem is that, historically speaking, various psychological schools of thought were centered on different and competing cults of personality that drew the interest of students who were subsequently mentored into particular mindsets. When some of those former students' views did not fully align with or partially/completely diverged from the original focus new schools of thought were born.
Thank you! 👏👏👏 I'm so tired of seeing blue and purple haired children faking switches on tiktok. Please just write a bad fanfic like we did in the early 2000s. Lmao.
My mom hates that UA-cam shit like thanks to a therapist she can now identify when a change is about to happen she don't know nothing else besides sit down cuz your about to not be in control and later on she developed names for them again with the help of a therapist before all this she would forget things she'd say things she'd normally not say that damaged our relationship like it was genuinely bad but now that she's fully aware of it and got the help she needed it became manageable
What did looking at Donovan's search history on his computer show. It was likely several searches on MPD (multi personality disorder) and how someone would know that they had multiple personalities.
The fact that he was released so soon is terrifying. He and Jeff should've been put away for at least 25 years. 😳 This has ridiculous. Thank you for another interesting analysis, Dr. Grande!! Listening to your videos is so calming to me. The insight, knowledge, humor, and sarcasm you have is entertaining and sound of your voice is great to listen to. ❤
Utterly ridiculous. He planned and executed this murder for a long time. Yet he walks. Insane. This little piece of crap belongs in prison. He will do it again.
@Z_RLBXY only when they are a certain shade and tax bracket. There's an autistic black kid with clear issues and deficiencies and a well off adopted white mom....he snapped in school and beat up a white female teacher...not good but she is ultimately fine...they are trying to give him 35 years and his mom is pleading for help....but this kid makes up a clear story and fakes a personality and is kid gloved the whole way through
Thank you for not being fooled by the Jeff the Killer BS. This case is so frustrating. If I were one of his remaining family members, I'd be terrified.
This case makes me think of Nicolas Cruz who was happy to claim credit for his school massacre planning on Facebook, yet blamed demons when the cops arrested him. The interrogating detective made a fool of him.
how on earth did he get released just because he aged out of the system? you should finish the remaining term in adult prison, not be free to kill someone else eventually
Or stay in a forensic psychiatric facility till he is deemed “well” enough to go to prison.If not there he should remain,transferring from the juvenile facility.
This is definitely a failure of the current judicial system. Surely this case lead to changes in the system to close this loophole from being abused again??
This kid was not even original enough to make up his own alternate, but slick enough to pretty much get away with killing a woman. Out walking around laughing to himself.
Astonished that he was going to get parole in 2028 but then jaw dropped from the appeal hearing. This guy definitely calculated and planned this with full knowledge of the justice system and basically these days you see more and more young kids (11-17) engaging in violent crimes because they know the age limitations is on their side.
Dont say that, her name still means something to the people that loved her. The law isnt right, but what does that take away from her memory. Good isnt gone unless you let go
@@kimchi9560Lol. Same. I have a lot of clutter, usually shoved into "doom boxes" I'll go through at some future stage. When I see a true hoarding situation I am relieved to see I'm not that bad at least.
This kid played them like a fiddle. He obviously made all this crap up as an alibi. "Jeff the Killer is my alternate personality" is the most ridiculous fake and cringe story you could go with. Him and Jussie Smollett should collab.
Obviously this kid is either alot smarter than jussie smollett or most likely mentally challenged people decided to let him be free, since it seems in USA anythings possible, like you can find a law license in the trash can or just be elected official by making up a story because in usa it seems people are either really smart or really stupid and the majority is outright stupid
This kids locker was right next to mine in 8th grade when this happened. Never really said anything to him other than “excuse me” but did notice pentagrams in his locker. He was new at our school that year and definitely the ‘quiet’ kid. Still pretty crazy to this day to think he did this at 14
I have watched dozens of Dr Grande's videos, and am impressed at how he is compassionate but nevertheless realistic - a very difficult balance to strike.
Dr. Grande, can you give us a case involving a perpetrator of a violent crime who incontrovertably is unaware of the difference between right and wrong?
This does not address your question directly ... but Dr. Grande mentioned, in one video, a man in Canada who "got away with murder" because it was proven that the murder occurred while the man was sleep-walking ...
Donovan's lawyers got him a “Get out of jail free” card, courtesy of mental health professionals. Now I wonder if the justice system was able to keep Jeff behind bars.
I read several books about DID disorder and the ones who (claimed) had it. Sometimes written by the clinician btw, not the patient. I do believe the disorder is real, but like Dr Grande said, it’s very rare. The stories that I read all had a few things in common: the patient developed the disorder at a very young age, that would be before the age of 5, as a rather extreme form of coping mechanism. The patient suffered from extreme abuse, usually by one or both parents. The patient had no or hardly any ‘safe place’ as a child, so instead had to turn inwards to cope with the abusive situations. The patient always suffers from time loss: the ‘main personality’ is not aware of what happens when an alter takes over. That’s the whole point of this extreme form of dissociative coping mechanism. So as you can see, this boy by no means complies to any of these criteria.
Less than ten years and released with zero supervision before his prefrontal cortex is even fully developed… what could possibly go wrong? Society at large will be much safer now.
The more I learn about mental health clinicians, the more I think they’re just kind of throwing theories at the wall to see what sticks. Especially when it comes to being expert witnesses.
I find another problem being that a lot of diagnosis seems to be done through questionnaires as well. Those can easily be gamed or falsified by a patient or prisoner.
This is a lack of understanding of statistics. Questionnaires are standardized throughout statistics. Just like a treatment for a virus is made or at least simulated on computers. Just because it's a questionnaire does not mean it is not sensible nor specific. But, I can see that not being a concrete explanation through a "bood or brain analysis" could be difficult to grasp. Like if you see it you believe it. But analyzing a person that hallucinates is difficult plus the legal system on top of the clinician demanding an explanation must be very tough. A brain scan could be of use but then again you probably don't believe in hard science either... The point is the kid murdered his mother and knew what he was doing. Influenced by the media and probably delusional about his grandiosity may be an explanation. But that will not erase what he did and the punishment should be jail either way and not a mental health institution (these are horrific also).
Thanks for the upload, Dr. Grande! Your true fans love your humour and sarcasm. December 7 is International Civil Aviation Day, Tree Dressing Day again, National Illinois Day, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day, Cotton Candy Day, Letter Writing Day, and Special Kids Day. Today is also the start of Hanukkah 2023.
This guy will kill again and everyone will say why was he allowed out the last time. Also Dr Grande I do try to let the ads run so you’ll get paid but it’s hard to sit through an ad about pooping. ❤
Dr Grande, would you do a deep dive on DID and examine what may actually be happening with individuals that display these symptoms of personality changes, mental fog, dissociation, etc?
I read one very interesting theory once (sorry I do not have the source). When growing up, as children, before our adult personality is decided, children toy with different types of personalities. This is normal. We all do it. We may swing from one personality to another. Our likes, interests, self-image, persona etc can change. It can vary. Eventually, an individual decides on one personality. This is likely the one we'll carry through our entire life. For those with DID (multiple personalities), they've simply not settled on one. They're still in the phase of deciding. Something didn't click. Hence, they continue to flit between personalities. No one personality has been solidified. This means alters emerge. They're not different people, no, they're just different personality choices that haven't been chosen. It's like being offered lots of sweets but not being able to stick on one. Again, sorry, I don't know the source but my goodness, it's intriguing. Of course, a lot of DID is explained by trauma. This is yet another explanation.
@@user-od3be8ny4o Fascinating indeed, the only issue is science around personality states we don't get to choose our personality at any point, personality remains pretty rigid and is not something we control as children or as adults. This is because personality is not only formed through environment but through ones genetic predispositions as well.
@@user-od3be8ny4o Is toying with various personalities something some people do as kids? I don’t remember ever doing this myself, nor did I ever decide on a personality to be as an adult. I’ve always just been me.
This is horrifying! How is he free? Thanks for another great video Dr. Grande! Please consider covering the Takoda Collins child abu$e case. Thank you!
That’s what I just questioned? Surely this case must have triggered immediate changes to the system to ensure this loophole doesn’t get abused again? I feel so many points were raised but not answered in this video, I hope Dr Grande reads the comments and does a follow up video.
I am concerned that our destigmatization of mental health issues has had an unexpected consequence of people claiming they have mental health issue that have no real basis. Every other person nowadays seems to be on the spectrum, have ADHD, PTSD, etc. That is actually harmful to the people who truly are struggling with a legitimate mental illness.
It's the glorification of victimhood. People want the sympathy that comes along with this stuff. To your point about it being harmful to people struggling with things - I'm not sure if ADHD is a mental illness, but as someone that is diagnosed with it and take medication for it, I don't see how other people claiming to have it would be at all harmful to me.
Yes. For example, sometimes a Dx of PTSD is used, when in fact, a person was never in any reasonable danger of being killed or experiencing serious physical harm, or witnessing same. For example, struggling to deal with grief from loss of a loved one. Stressful, yes. PTSD, no.
This is not the first time that we've seen a child mock a scary anime type character to commit a gruesome crime. Remember the two little girls that took their friend into the woods and stabbed her nearly to death because the "stick man" told them to do it? These dark images that children are seeing are opening portals to act on evil thoughts. Dr. Grande nailed it again! This kid was lying and he absolutely escaped justice. It's frightening that he's out free with such a great possibility that he will harm or kill again.
"The Slenderman Stabbing" is the case that you're thinking of. Neither the Slenderman nor Jeff the Killer are animé characters, but rather they are known as "creepypasta" characters; the two are derived from the scary horror/ghost stories on the internet.
There is a trend online now where young people showcase their alternate personalities. I don’t know how much time that he spent online but perhaps that is where he got the idea
@@sanna9062sadly the DID trend predates 2017. A bunch of UA-camrs claiming to have DID became incredibly popular and gained a cult like following, it gained the attention of international media. It’s continued on steroids since then over to instagram and tik tok etc, proving quite economically lucrative for some fake ‘illness influencers’ too. Along with other actual genuine conditions, both psychiatric and physical. Buzzwords like ‘Illness Fakers’, ‘Munchausen By Internet’ then became a thing, leading to online vigilante groups that became viscous. This in turn lead to other awful consequences for many who genuinely do have the latest online illness trend becoming victims of these online vigilante mobs falsely accusing them of being fakers even to the extent of death threats, which has lead to su*ide attempts. Another very serious consequence has been within the medical field, medical specialists having to turn away genuinely sick patients in need of care due to being inundated by the fakers depending on the illness of the month until the hype has moved on to the next illness. Blocking much needed medical access to more newly diagnosed genuine patients for up to a year or more. Much needed online support groups and communities also became infiltrated by fakers, requiring much stricter security protocols to protect the integrity of the communities and having to switch privacy settings. I have a genetic condition similar to MS that became one of the trends a few years ago for a short while, we found UA-cam videos of hypnosis training claiming to give the listener the symptoms of various illnesses, as well as forums teaching others how to trick medical professionals and family and friends etc. It’s an uphill battle getting such videos and forums removed. It’s all so deeply disturbing and devastating for genuine sufferers, while some trying to fake an illness permanently physically harm and endanger themselves to try to mimic symptoms. This online ‘adopt an illness’ trend predates 2017 and doesn’t show any signs of slowing down. Predominately it’s vulnerable teens who are attracted to this sick subculture.
Maybe ‘alternate personalities’ (not as being applied to Donovan here) are dissociative moments, but for some are more prolonged and experienced, and thus felt as a separate part of themselves. Where the mind splits into a part which the doesn’t understand. Or connect with even.? I had treatment for many years, for my out of proportion reactions in the present, to some events. It became apparent through treatment, (psychological, therapeutic and medical), that some genuinely traumatic events, being relived as flashbacks to past incidents, had left their mark in the present. But…. I never had any thoughts of harming others: my reactions were aimed at myself. This is often seen as ‘attention seeking’. I suggest it’s a protective mechanism, difficult for others to understand, because the behaviour are often negative, and don’t belong in the context of the situation. I do think the whole area of assessing and treating people who don’t have organic mental illness is not an exact science. I’m an example of someone who sought help and am largely better. It took a long time however and a variety of approaches. I didn’t ever name or feel the need to name these moments (ie a Jeff’). Interestingly I could not remember all of the details of these dissociative moments’. They were real to me at the time however. I do believe that psychiatry is only able to understand non organic illness to a limited extent, because science demands proof, concrete fact, diagnosis. Personality Disorders, Borderline Personality Disorders are such a nice way of giving definitions to the sometimes inconsistent presentation of individuals ie the rest of us who behave weirdly. I cannot pretend to fully understand the experience of having Alternates. I do however know that once professionals started treating me with understanding rather than scepticism, my life was changed for the better. (This was treatment from our wonderful NHS which is currently struggling to stay afloat). I have outlined my experiences of dissociation as best I can. I then consider Donovan’s claims to having an Alternate. This does not feel believable. It feels more like a spoilt child’s outburst of pure anger. An Evil which took over reasoned thinking. Going by his history, briefly given here, I don’t go for multiple personalities, whether it exists or not. It was a simmering, underlying hatred. Which he was aware of. I don’t think ‘Jeff’ committed the crime.
I don't think he was faking as much as he was making it happen. I think his mindset was, "I'll create this evil alter ego and then blame everything on him." But obviously, you can't give yourself a bad case of dissociative identity disorder. So, yeah, I'm thinking he's stone-cold guilty.
It sounds to me like Donovan had an adolescent version of an imaginary friend. He allowed Jeff to take on his negative thoughts and, eventually let ‘him’ act on them. In other words, I think, because of his lonely and troubled life, he created a way to cope-but, unlike DID, he was conscious of what he was doing but, at the same time, he gave in to the fantasy.
He sounds like an extremely intelligent person hellbent on using his inteliigence for evil. This is going to end badly for another innocent victim/s. He's *not* a goog person. I feel sorry for his dad who obviously loved her, and everyone else who did too. Did you find out if she was taking drugs, Dr Grande, or was that just his own version of her? Thank you.
@@tyreseforren6721because at 14 he managed to manipulate and beat the judicial system and psych professionals multiple times. He’s a free man after a setting up a planned out bs narrative in order to commit premeditated murder. Somebody above mentioned this Geoff character is actually a well known internet creepy pasta dating back well before the murder.
I remember that scientific papers were saying that clinicians wanted so badly to believe in DID that they were asking people who were susceptible to suggestion questions that would cause a person to seem like they had this disorder. Questions like “was it you who did this? Who did this? Who were you when this happened? Do you ever feel like someone else?” DID is movie stuff.
There’s a documentary on HBO about the woman who really pushed the DID diagnosis. She was anti death penalty and would go around interviewing death row inmates and basically coaxing them into saying they had multiple personalities.
Mental disorders are infectious encephalitis or other brain damage. Herpesviruses usually. History is important. Look into history of psychology and the asylums. They've known for 100 years what causes mental problems. Herpesviruses mostly but other neurotropic infections also. All that changed when they developed chemicals. Then we all had chemical imbalances they want to treat with their expensive and also toxic and don't work, chemical drugs. Come non guys, the grift is so obvious. HISTORY IS SO IMPORTANT. They knew this 100 years ago and treated with heat therapy in the asylums. Why on earth would they do that do u ask? Because heat simulates a fever, the body's way of killing viruses. They knew everyone had herpes rashes on their necks. Same bumps my mom and I both have. Mental disorders aren't hereditary, viruses are. I got mine in the birth canal I've been researching herpesviruses for over a decade when I did a research project in pathology class. I am also living with small fiber neuropathy from herpes simplex 1. I watched my ex go from Borderline personality disorder to dementia. Newsflash. It's not two different things. It's the same damn thing. It's a brain infection, viral encephalitis causing dementia. The implications of this are huge. It causes a bunch of ethical and legal issues but it's true so...
Did his Mom do drugs when pregnant? Why did she drop out of his life? Sounds like the Dad wasn't really there emotionally for him at all. Hormones going on and his prior activity on the internet should be interesting to know. He should not be free at all, neither should "Jeff."
Alternate Personality = trying to look crazier than you are for the jury Shame these idiots don't ever seem to know the strict definition of "legally insane". You'd think their lawyers (and, in this case, the judge) would, though.
Reminds me I very briefly dated this guy who claimed he had 100 "alters" and one had seriously hurt someone (which is when the very brief relationship ended) but that he had "got help now" so all of his "alters" were good now. Once I ended the relationship, he claimed I was extremely crazy and needed help 🥴
I wonder what happened to his real mother? Did she abandoned him or did his father abandoned the mother? I still think this boy needs to either be in prison, or in a mentally hospital, all his life, even if he is insane, it doesn’t seem like something you can heal. Imo.
That is interesting because the 9 year-old I wrote about earlier with ASD, ADHD, and possibly ODD, had a member of law enforcement living in his cul-de-sac a couple of houses away.
It may not have been served to a degree but he still went to prison and got some accountability though I feel him being a minor helped him avoid being in for a long time. If you think this was a travesty, it’s still nowhere near as abhorrent as the OJ case or the Emmitt Till one. As in both cases the guilty walked free and served no prison time
I don’t think teaching kids responsibility always plays a part. In every case there’s not enough factual proof behind this criminal case I think it’s on to speak upon a topic we for sure can say exactly what happened. It’s not a unique case. It may have been a cover-up, but I in fact, do not believe that it is a fake“” illness, diagnosis just cause we don’t have factual proof doesn’t mean something doesn’t exist. Think about the ocean for instance, before we went to go explore it, we barely knew anything yet we still don’t know a whole bunch of animals that still exist. You can’t speak with your emotions it’s paramount to speak on exclusively facts
In the 80s I had an acquaintance that said they had different personalities. Instead of getting real help from the therapist the therapist played into it . All the time the acquaintance told me they didn't have it but because he played the part well he was able to get on disability. I think it might be real in very rare and extreme cases. But if you find the wrong doctor instead of truthfully treating the patient they just enable him.
Being depressed because a kid misses their parent and dislikes the stepmother could be millions of kids in the world. Coming up with a way to rid himself of that’s murder, is very sad and insane. Probably not alternate personality but definitely a troubled person.
This is unfathomable. The fact that this man is walking around after committing such a HEINOUS act. I don't believe that he had an alternate personality. I'm sure that he talked himself into believing it but deep down I don't believe it for a second. If he does this again those that allowed him to walk free should be held accountable. But they of course won't be.
Yet again, another person’s opinion nothing factual, like I keep saying feelings, do not belong anywhere near criminal cases each case is different, regardless of how it may seem
@@Only_FLUSHABLES_Get_You_clean You understand that they used the, "feelings", of expert witnesses to support their position, right? I actually agree with you that criminal trials should be about facts and not about feelings, but that's simply not how the judicial system currently operates.
I love it when Dr. Grande talks about a case where the subject is clearly malingering and we get to hear him talk about how their behavior is inconsistent with the disorder
So he went scot-free because he turned 21? Surely the system should have a mechanism in place to prevent that sort of thing? That's insane and outrageous
The way he describes the good and bad sides of his character diverging, it sounds as though ‘Jeff’ was just his conscious personification of one side. It’s very convenient in all of these cases that the alters with the names known by society have all the good characteristics and other alters with new names are the baddies.
Heartbreaking they fell for this and the victim gets no justice I hope her family sues him in civil court and takes anything he ever has. He should at least get out into a hospital for the mentally insane and he can see what that's like. My prayers are with her family and loved ones.
“It wasn’t me, it was a creepypasta from 2007 I swear!”
Hopefully he can move in with whoever decided he should be released.
Yeah they should have to deal with him.
This is scary. I agree with Dr Grande. Justice was not served.
I have a feeling this will not be the last time we hear about Donovan.
Dissociative Identity Disorder is another example of pseudoscience; psychology is rife with pseudoscientific notions!😮
Agreed with you and Doc 100%
IMO .. This proves the whole system of Psychiatry is a sham. How long before claiming "I was depressed" gets one off with murder charge? .. Not long I suspect.
Wow with all the true crime podcasts I listen to- I never ever heard of this case! Amazing. Thanks for covering this case Dr. Grande!🤠💕
@@tarstarkusz That is incorrect. Oxford Languages defines personality as "1. the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character and 2. a famous person, especially in entertainment or sports." A physically and mentally healthy person's personality is largely formed by the time a child enters school at about 6 to 7 years-old, yet, during adolescence, apoptosis of unused neural pathways is meant to make decision-making in the brain more cognitively-emotionally efficacious, effective, and efficient. Unfortunately, those with personality disorders who are in a state of arrested development that is out of sync with their actual ages and stages of life due to a lack of good parenting (i.e., garbage in, garbage out) will and do have problems coping with life's challenges, which includes taking responsibility for one's actions. Critical growth periods form and reform neurobiology across the human developmental life span, but they are most pronounced from conception until approximately 26 years of age. However, if a person suffers brain injury from a stroke, lack of oxygen, dementia, etc., his or her personality may be permanently changed. The brain can and will recover up to a point, if possible, based upon the severity of the damage and the previous foundation laid during childhood and young adulthood.
“Jeff the killer” is a creepy pasta character that dates back to 2008 about a 13 yr old who is brutally attacked by bullies, carves a smile on his face and becomes a serial killer. The fact that this kid physically imitated (the cuts) this story and invoked this character to address perceived wrongs in his own life is to me a significant argument against DID. Invoking a specific character in a story alongside the absence of any true dissociation and his presentation on the phone presents more to me as his desire to kill being intentionally directed through a story character as a way to distance himself from the act
And this guys just roaming loose within society 🤦🏽♀️ this won’t be the last time we hear of his name
(hope I’m wrong tho)
@@Nesia187Agreed
I hope his stint in prison scared him enough to avoid getting into anymore trouble
Agree. Definitely disturbed, but not via DID.
the photo dates back to at least 2005 and was called prettyface or whitepowder
This is so outrageous! This woman survived over 60 stab wounds which is torture! And this little creep gets off scott free because of incompetent mental health “experts.” It’s sickening. They will have more blood on their hands when there’s another victim. I bet a future employer or girlfriend won’t be able to find out about his past because juvenile records are sealed. 🤯
I am hoping his DNA profile is still available in the system.
She didn’t survive.
@@gingersmith2888 She died from being shot in the head, not from being stabbed at least 62 times.
I agree with you that the state of mental health assessment in the courts and in the world wields too much power, and it is given too much respect. In my opinion, it's not better or more reliable than palm reading or astrology in my opinion. It's way too far away from being a testable, repeatable science.
In this case, however, it was trial lawyers that got him off with a believed complaint about how his case was tried as an adult, rather than a child that could be treated for DID. This is outlined at 07:20 in the video. These lawyers were not concerned with what is right or what is wrong; they are concerned with winning and building a strong reputation for success in trials. Lawyers got his case moved to juvenile, he pleaded guilty to aggravated murder, and he had to be released at age 21.
I think that if court appointed credible clinicians vastly disagree in their assessments, that all of their testimonial assessments and judgments should be tossed as irrelevant to the case at hand, and the court should automatically rule the individual is fully mentally able to stand trial. It seems like it is the only method that makes sense, since the mental health profession is so far from being a reliable science.
@@troy3456789 Your post is music to my ears. Yet, let's put this situation in its situational context. Public health's core functions are a) needs assessment, b) policy development, and c) evaluation. For needs assessment, the only way to get from exploratory to explanatory research, which yield qualitatively coarse-grained data is to use the observational and survey methods of data collection using questionnaires and other validated assessment instruments. Since higher forms of scientific knowledge are built upon previous scientific knowledge, different types of research, such as a) case reports, opinion papers, and letters; b) animal trials and in vitro studies; c) cross sectional studies; d) case-control studies; e) cohort studies; f) randomized control trials; and g) meta-analyses and systematic reviews lend themselves to future studies going from weakest to strongest in a triangular pyramid, sand dune, or mountain of data derived from population-based studies found under the normal curve. Public and organizational policies are developed and aligned to provide financial support for such studies along the local, state, and federal levels. For example, federal government grants-in-aid programs are a) block grants, categorical grants, and general revenue sharing that provide funding for public health infrastructure. In evaluation of physical and mental health intervention programs, you need evidence that is found in the results of fine-grained data. In healthcare, clinical decision-support systems are accuracy and precision. For the purpose of definitively determining whether or not a defendant in the criminal justice system is a murderous psychopath, jury members need to hear from experts in the analyses of fine-grained data, such as DNA. Another form of evidence that is much more accurate in detecting lying psychopaths than a fallible polygraph test is a functional MRI. Using neurobiological fMRIs scans to assess empathetic pathways that are either being used or not being used as per the Golden Rule by guilty and/or guiltless criminal defendants is hard evidence that they know right from wrong; have a mental illness, such as PTSD; can be properly tried in mentally age-appropriate courts; and can be rehabilitated, if found guilty through an accumulation of other evidence. This process would be a quantitatively, experimentally, empirically testable and repeatable form of hard scientific facts in quantitative research that through meta-analyses would prove itself over and over again.
The sad part about this case is no one cared about the victim. So sad for her children and her family.
Why do you say no one cared. Remember we only see what the creators present to us. This video specifically focuses on the murderer.
Having said that, I find it disrespectful when channels don't acknowledge the suffering of victims and their loved ones
@@vi9763The justice system didn't punish the murderer in a fair manner, I guess that's what they meant with 'no one cared'.
@FloKarlos-dj7nb
Yes, you're right. That's probably what was meant
In modern society the victims are irrelevant and no one care for them, Argentina was one of the leading countries to put "criminals first victims never", look how they ended 😂😂😂
@@vi9763go away then
The fact that this still kid/man child is out free is extremely troubling!!!
Yep! Unfortunately, he will probably use this again.
Truth.
Indeed!
It terrifies me because he was brutal to Heidi. Justice was not served😡
When he reoffends the people that let him go should be charged with his crimes
That kid had a great lawyer.
Justice, however, was not served.
What don’t understand is, if the perpetrator claims an alternate personality as the “real killer,” why is the punishment different? The body did the actions from the mind. Who cares what the mind’s name is? Donovan and “Jeff” could serve time together.
Great point. Also, insanity defense always puzzled me. Anyone capable of murder barring self defense, must be crazy, right?
Not to mention Donovan might be the alternate personality and Jeff is the main or real personality using Donovan as a cover. Like in the movie "Primal Fear".
@@twocents7495 Insane means you can't tell right from wrong and you can't distinguish reality from unreality. Some are faking it, of course, but others truly are insane. I feel that this particular guy is faking it.
i think the idea is if you had medications or treatment, you wouldn't be a murderer???? not sure though@@twocents7495
@@olilumgbalu5653 thanks. I actually went through graduate school for psych, so understand the legal definition of NGRI. I’m speaking gut level, philosophically.
I'm a MH clinician. Early last year, I started treating a young woman for CTPSD. The many pre EMDR assessments she completed suggested, and later confirmed, that she met the criteria for DID. My approach has been "fragmented states of consciousness", rather than distinctive identities. Through therapy which has included EMDR, she's now centred in one state of consciousness, and aware of her long held multiple coping mechanisms which include the urge to dissociate when things get tough. I'm so proud of her courage to try and be the person she's aways been: ONE beautiful young women, with multiple traumas, multiple attempts to get through it, multiple adaptive strategies, but a big desire to be ONE thriving and successful human being.
I can hear my thoughts as different voices, sometimes with distinctive personalities. I was so afraid as a teen that it could be schizophrenia or DID but appearently it is a normal thing in autistics, as long as they KNOW, that it's just their different thoughts, sorted by the brain into the "on the one hand" "on the other hand" groups so to speak, or ego Id and superEgo or whatever you want to call the conflicting parts of your brain. I can watch me thinking and having emotions and there are parts within me that are very aggressiv, tempered by parts that are very kind. I pondered if DID happens, when you Lose the ability to "watch yourself think". You calling it fractions kind of feels like I could be right.
Cases like this are why I have so much fear for all the children on tiktok today who come upon the viral DID trend and decide that they, too, have this incredibly rare/possibly nonexistent condition. Even my own kid got swept up in it and we are still dealing with that. We don't need more Donovans. We need to address the thing in society that is making these kids claim to have every mental disorder under the sun as an explanation for/way to cope with the bizarre, absurd state of the world they have been born into.
It's bad parenting and the glorifcation of victimhood.
Amen to this. The internet is so dangerous for preteens!! I had some guy exploit me for pics as a minor and use them against me when I was a minor. Keep teens off the internet or regulate it for sure..
I venture to say Donovan’s self proclaimed “bad side” that emerged was merely his darker impulses, not a dissociative identity named Jeff. Claiming the devil made him do it would have been a more believable confession. I agree with Dr. Grande that justice was not served in this case. I pray Donovan doesn’t give in to his darker impulses in the future.
It's interesting how Donovan could be so certain that Geoff wouldn't "hurt anybody else". Why would Donovan be so certain of how Geoff was going to behave in _this_ instance specifically? Obviously, it's because Donovan really didn't want to be shot or pepper sprayed.
If Geoff was a real alternate personality, Donovan would have said something like "Be careful; I don't know what Geoff will do when you arrest me". Instead his fears betrayed the fact Geoff is an invention.
@@aarondavis8943Excellent comment 👍
Thank you for saying DID is likely not real and if it is, it is EXTREMELY rare. There are so many people on the Internet who post about their "systems" like a bad dystopian young adult novel. And talk about DID like it's a super power or romanticize it. The one or two cases I've seen of DID in textbooks show it as a life ruining condition. Imagine waking up one day to find another person had control of your body yesterday and you cannot remember anything that happened. You wouldn't be able to function in life. You couldn't hold a job, have a family ect. And those cases were born out of extreme, unimaginable trauma.
I don't believe any person posting about having DID and making, "I caught a switch on camera." Or, "Meet my alters." Videos actually have DID.
This! 100% this! I mean, I was diagnosed with DID in the 90s, so I guess I don't really know how I feel about "not likely real." At the same time, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that it's just some kind of manifestation of PTSD with other mental health disorders creating a similar effect.
But from my own experience, it's not fun. It's having conversations I don't remember having, which has sometimes ruined personal relationships. It's made it incredibly difficult to hold a job without serious work and intervention through the help of counseling and specialists. I don't think being unable to have a job or a family is accurate, but the key thing allowing that to happen is years and years of treatment to deal with the triggers, traumas, and all of that. I mean, to say you couldn't have a job or a family, well, that would go for schizophrenia, or severe PTSD from severe abuse and trauma, but that's not the case. Treatment is key.
Aside from the fact that I don't agree it ruins your ability to have a life of your own, because, again, that's what trauma specialists and treatment are for, regardless of diagnosis, I absolutely hate how people online make it look like happy fun times. It's not cute. It's not fun. It's not catching switches on video. There are so many people who use it as a means to issue threats, say hurtful things, and in general be cruel, and write it off as "Oh, that was just my system persecutor." Um... what? Claiming their crimes were their alter... claiming that they need to be treated as children and get angry when people don't respect it... Again, diagnosis aside, because maybe it's actually PTSD, but when something triggers me, being a scared child is not fun for me or anyone around me. It's not cute and silly. It's incredibly frustrating for everyone involved. It's not silly or cute. It's horrible, and I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, because I would gladly give this up if I had the ability to do so. Whether you call this DID or write it off as severe PTSD triggers, flashbacks, the whole nine, doesn't matter to me. I don't care what the diagnosis actually is. At the end of the day, I'd much rather not have to deal with any of it, and I don't understand why anyone would choose to brag about having this diagnosis or make it sound fun.
I do think it's real, and it is rare. Both are accurate statements. It's just controversial because psychiatrists don't do their due diligence and has muddied the water.
@@KayosHybrid The problem is that, historically speaking, various psychological schools of thought were centered on different and competing cults of personality that drew the interest of students who were subsequently mentored into particular mindsets. When some of those former students' views did not fully align with or partially/completely diverged from the original focus new schools of thought were born.
Thank you! 👏👏👏
I'm so tired of seeing blue and purple haired children faking switches on tiktok. Please just write a bad fanfic like we did in the early 2000s. Lmao.
My mom hates that UA-cam shit like thanks to a therapist she can now identify when a change is about to happen she don't know nothing else besides sit down cuz your about to not be in control and later on she developed names for them again with the help of a therapist before all this she would forget things she'd say things she'd normally not say that damaged our relationship like it was genuinely bad but now that she's fully aware of it and got the help she needed it became manageable
It’s ok Donovan we are not sentencing you we are sentencing Jeff to life in prison
It's okay, Jeff has just left the building.
What did looking at Donovan's search history on his computer show. It was likely several searches on MPD (multi personality disorder) and how someone would know that they had multiple personalities.
The fact that he was released so soon is terrifying. He and Jeff should've been put away for at least 25 years. 😳 This has ridiculous. Thank you for another interesting analysis, Dr. Grande!! Listening to your videos is so calming to me. The insight, knowledge, humor, and sarcasm you have is entertaining and sound of your voice is great to listen to. ❤
Utterly ridiculous. He planned and executed this murder for a long time. Yet he walks. Insane. This little piece of crap belongs in prison. He will do it again.
B
He killed her, it was premeditated and he fully knew what he was doing. There was no 'Jeff'. What a bunch of bs.
So, we wait to find out who Donovan's next victim will be. It's truly sad, but he'll find someone, and then perhaps he'll be held accountable.
I'm convinced "The system" wants people like this out there.
@Z_RLBXY only when they are a certain shade and tax bracket. There's an autistic black kid with clear issues and deficiencies and a well off adopted white mom....he snapped in school and beat up a white female teacher...not good but she is ultimately fine...they are trying to give him 35 years and his mom is pleading for help....but this kid makes up a clear story and fakes a personality and is kid gloved the whole way through
@@EyeDyeGrysI hate to say it but they do really seem to. Defense attorneys in particular relish these kinds of criminals 💰
@@EyeDyeGrys It is an immoral self-perpetuating money-making machine for everyone involved, except for the victims and their families.
@@gossamer9966 especially if they have a complexion.
Thank you for not being fooled by the Jeff the Killer BS. This case is so frustrating. If I were one of his remaining family members, I'd be terrified.
They sure did fail to connect the dots. Pure injustice for the step mom
I don’t know if I’d use the term injustice here.
I mean he did serve some time. Unlike OJ or Emmitt Till’s killers
This case makes me think of Nicolas Cruz who was happy to claim credit for his school massacre planning on Facebook, yet blamed demons when the cops arrested him. The interrogating detective made a fool of him.
how on earth did he get released just because he aged out of the system? you should finish the remaining term in adult prison, not be free to kill someone else eventually
Or stay in a forensic psychiatric facility till he is deemed “well” enough to go to prison.If not there he should remain,transferring from the juvenile facility.
This is definitely a failure of the current judicial system. Surely this case lead to changes in the system to close this loophole from being abused again??
@@batubop651 Nope. Unless the person is initially tried as an adult, I suppose that is one method of closing it.
This kid was not even original enough to make up his own alternate, but slick enough to pretty much get away with killing a woman. Out walking around laughing to himself.
It's sad that this woman's life became irrelevant the moment this murderer got off and walked free
Just started watching but damn…. That’s so sad.
Astonished that he was going to get parole in 2028 but then jaw dropped from the appeal hearing. This guy definitely calculated and planned this with full knowledge of the justice system and basically these days you see more and more young kids (11-17) engaging in violent crimes because they know the age limitations is on their side.
Right? Damn… or justice system sometimes. Infuriating.
Typical day for women everywhere.
Dont say that, her name still means something to the people that loved her. The law isnt right, but what does that take away from her memory. Good isnt gone unless you let go
Thank you to Dr. Grande and his lovely team. Whenever I watch his videos I come to the conclusion that after all my life isn't THAT bad.❣️
Yeah
And if that doesn’t work I watch hoarders and marvel at my comparatively clean abode.
@@kimchi9560Lol. Same. I have a lot of clutter, usually shoved into "doom boxes" I'll go through at some future stage. When I see a true hoarding situation I am relieved to see I'm not that bad at least.
This kid played them like a fiddle. He obviously made all this crap up as an alibi. "Jeff the Killer is my alternate personality" is the most ridiculous fake and cringe story you could go with. Him and Jussie Smollett should collab.
Obviously this kid is either alot smarter than jussie smollett or most likely mentally challenged people decided to let him be free, since it seems in USA anythings possible, like you can find a law license in the trash can or just be elected official by making up a story because in usa it seems people are either really smart or really stupid and the majority is outright stupid
lol
Wasn’t Jeff the killer from the case with slender man too
It seems she was abusing the kid and got rekt for it.
@@yahnservices1978 Abusing?
This kids locker was right next to mine in 8th grade when this happened. Never really said anything to him other than “excuse me” but did notice pentagrams in his locker. He was new at our school that year and definitely the ‘quiet’ kid. Still pretty crazy to this day to think he did this at 14
I have watched dozens of Dr Grande's videos, and am impressed at how he is compassionate but nevertheless realistic - a very difficult balance to strike.
He's pretty incredible isn't he.
Dr. Grande, can you give us a case involving a perpetrator of a violent crime who incontrovertably is unaware of the difference between right and wrong?
Interesting
Yeah great idea! I can think of a couple that I think legally qualified but I’m sure that would be controversial to some.
This does not address your question directly ... but Dr. Grande mentioned, in one video, a man in Canada who "got away with murder" because it was proven that the murder occurred while the man was sleep-walking ...
@@josepha.spadaro7881That's a fascinating case.
Susan Yates may be one. Postpartum psychosis.
Donovan's lawyers got him a “Get out of jail free” card, courtesy of mental health professionals. Now I wonder if the justice system was able to keep Jeff behind bars.
I read several books about DID disorder and the ones who (claimed) had it. Sometimes written by the clinician btw, not the patient. I do believe the disorder is real, but like Dr Grande said, it’s very rare. The stories that I read all had a few things in common: the patient developed the disorder at a very young age, that would be before the age of 5, as a rather extreme form of coping mechanism. The patient suffered from extreme abuse, usually by one or both parents. The patient had no or hardly any ‘safe place’ as a child, so instead had to turn inwards to cope with the abusive situations. The patient always suffers from time loss: the ‘main personality’ is not aware of what happens when an alter takes over. That’s the whole point of this extreme form of dissociative coping mechanism. So as you can see, this boy by no means complies to any of these criteria.
Less than ten years and released with zero supervision before his prefrontal cortex is even fully developed… what could possibly go wrong? Society at large will be much safer now.
Now he can be a successful politician
Time for a Christmas cactus. Thank you for your video.
Curious about the different cacti. What is the significance?
The more I learn about mental health clinicians, the more I think they’re just kind of throwing theories at the wall to see what sticks. Especially when it comes to being expert witnesses.
I find another problem being that a lot of diagnosis seems to be done through questionnaires as well. Those can easily be gamed or falsified by a patient or prisoner.
Often the questionnaires,don’t “fit” the person,ie they need to look more deeply at an individual not generic data.
That's why they're called TheRapists
This is a lack of understanding of statistics. Questionnaires are standardized throughout statistics. Just like a treatment for a virus is made or at least simulated on computers. Just because it's a questionnaire does not mean it is not sensible nor specific. But, I can see that not being a concrete explanation through a "bood or brain analysis" could be difficult to grasp. Like if you see it you believe it. But analyzing a person that hallucinates is difficult plus the legal system on top of the clinician demanding an explanation must be very tough. A brain scan could be of use but then again you probably don't believe in hard science either... The point is the kid murdered his mother and knew what he was doing. Influenced by the media and probably delusional about his grandiosity may be an explanation. But that will not erase what he did and the punishment should be jail either way and not a mental health institution (these are horrific also).
Many of them also have their professional lives hitched to some of these disorders actually existing, so they want to see them in everyone.
I like how Dr. Grande a worded it " Some mental health clinicians need to believe D.I.D. is real" I'm with ye on that.
It’s clearly insane any way you look at and doesn’t mean he should ever be free especially if he were mentally I’ll and dangerous.
Thanks for the upload, Dr. Grande! Your true fans love your humour and sarcasm. December 7 is International Civil Aviation Day, Tree Dressing Day again, National Illinois Day, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day, Cotton Candy Day, Letter Writing Day, and Special Kids Day. Today is also the start of Hanukkah 2023.
This guy will kill again and everyone will say why was he allowed out the last time. Also Dr Grande I do try to let the ads run so you’ll get paid but it’s hard to sit through an ad about pooping. ❤
Dr Grande, would you do a deep dive on DID and examine what may actually be happening with individuals that display these symptoms of personality changes, mental fog, dissociation, etc?
I read one very interesting theory once (sorry I do not have the source). When growing up, as children, before our adult personality is decided, children toy with different types of personalities. This is normal. We all do it. We may swing from one personality to another. Our likes, interests, self-image, persona etc can change. It can vary. Eventually, an individual decides on one personality. This is likely the one we'll carry through our entire life. For those with DID (multiple personalities), they've simply not settled on one. They're still in the phase of deciding. Something didn't click. Hence, they continue to flit between personalities. No one personality has been solidified. This means alters emerge. They're not different people, no, they're just different personality choices that haven't been chosen. It's like being offered lots of sweets but not being able to stick on one.
Again, sorry, I don't know the source but my goodness, it's intriguing.
Of course, a lot of DID is explained by trauma. This is yet another explanation.
I grew up with a step mom who had MPD. It is real.
@@user-od3be8ny4o Fascinating indeed, the only issue is science around personality states we don't get to choose our personality at any point, personality remains pretty rigid and is not something we control as children or as adults. This is because personality is not only formed through environment but through ones genetic predispositions as well.
@@user-od3be8ny4o Is toying with various personalities something some people do as kids? I don’t remember ever doing this myself, nor did I ever decide on a personality to be as an adult. I’ve always just been me.
Schizophrenia.
What an injustice for the victim and the victims family. That's terrible the courts freed him so quickly.
LOL "Research shows that DID is almost unheard of in teenagers". Not on social media it isn't!
This is horrifying! How is he free? Thanks for another great video Dr. Grande! Please consider covering the Takoda Collins child abu$e case. Thank you!
That was perhaps the most sickening thing I've seen.
Well, dear lord, this brings to light a huge hole in the criminal justice system that needs to be plugged quickly.
That’s what I just questioned? Surely this case must have triggered immediate changes to the system to ensure this loophole doesn’t get abused again? I feel so many points were raised but not answered in this video, I hope Dr Grande reads the comments and does a follow up video.
@@batubop651 Nope, mental health "experts" will continue to be allowed to testify.
I am concerned that our destigmatization of mental health issues has had an unexpected consequence of people claiming they have mental health issue that have no real basis. Every other person nowadays seems to be on the spectrum, have ADHD, PTSD, etc. That is actually harmful to the people who truly are struggling with a legitimate mental illness.
It's the glorification of victimhood. People want the sympathy that comes along with this stuff.
To your point about it being harmful to people struggling with things - I'm not sure if ADHD is a mental illness, but as someone that is diagnosed with it and take medication for it, I don't see how other people claiming to have it would be at all harmful to me.
Yes. For example, sometimes a Dx of PTSD is used, when in fact, a person was never in any reasonable danger of being killed or experiencing serious physical harm, or witnessing same. For example, struggling to deal with grief from loss of a loved one. Stressful, yes. PTSD, no.
Jeff the killer. REALLY!!??? 😂😂 He literally read a creepypasta and thought it was cool 😂😂
Back in the 1980s, I got caught stealing cookies...my defence that I was inhabited by a cookie monster alter ego; it failed.
It doesn't serve justice to let this evil spawn of the devil freely walk among us. He should be in prison. It's not fair!
Lol..evil spawn!!!! EXACTLY
there's no such thing as fairness
@jonathankessler7436 , unfortunately, this is true.
More like chaired.
I'm for capital punishment.
It wasn't me. It was the other person living in this body.. My word he did all that and is walking the streets...
That's a rare deflection! 😅
This is not the first time that we've seen a child mock a scary anime type character to commit a gruesome crime. Remember the two little girls that took their friend into the woods and stabbed her nearly to death because the "stick man" told them to do it? These dark images that children are seeing are opening portals to act on evil thoughts. Dr. Grande nailed it again! This kid was lying and he absolutely escaped justice. It's frightening that he's out free with such a great possibility that he will harm or kill again.
"The Slenderman Stabbing" is the case that you're thinking of. Neither the Slenderman nor Jeff the Killer are animé characters, but rather they are known as "creepypasta" characters; the two are derived from the scary horror/ghost stories on the internet.
OMG someone else remembers that one!
This was like Deja Vu
@@Zeppelee Thank you for the information. I'm not hip to any of this new age animation. I just know that a lot of it is dark
@@RB01.10 Difficult to forget. I have nieces so that story stuck with me
Or...kids that would act on these dark thoughts regardless are just using these things as justification.
The number one sign of a person faking D.I.D. is a person claiming to have D.I.D.
I absolutely hate that the media pushes it as real so people keep bringing it up as a possible diagnosis when no, it's a fake bs diagnosis.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
It’s so sad that things are this way for people who actually have DID. Now people who actually have it can’t say they have it.
@@Anne-ot8gq because they don't. You can't have something that doesn't exist!
@@VoorTrekker88 it's called mental illness like people thinking they're god
The whole premise of hidden personalities due to trauma is being largely challenged. Hollywood loves DID but it’s really not a thing.
There is a trend online now where young people showcase their alternate personalities. I don’t know how much time that he spent online but perhaps that is where he got the idea
The crime happened in 2017
@@sanna9062sadly the DID trend predates 2017. A bunch of UA-camrs claiming to have DID became incredibly popular and gained a cult like following, it gained the attention of international media. It’s continued on steroids since then over to instagram and tik tok etc, proving quite economically lucrative for some fake ‘illness influencers’ too. Along with other actual genuine conditions, both psychiatric and physical. Buzzwords like ‘Illness Fakers’, ‘Munchausen By Internet’ then became a thing, leading to online vigilante groups that became viscous.
This in turn lead to other awful consequences for many who genuinely do have the latest online illness trend becoming victims of these online vigilante mobs falsely accusing them of being fakers even to the extent of death threats, which has lead to su*ide attempts. Another very serious consequence has been within the medical field, medical specialists having to turn away genuinely sick patients in need of care due to being inundated by the fakers depending on the illness of the month until the hype has moved on to the next illness. Blocking much needed medical access to more newly diagnosed genuine patients for up to a year or more. Much needed online support groups and communities also became infiltrated by fakers, requiring much stricter security protocols to protect the integrity of the communities and having to switch privacy settings.
I have a genetic condition similar to MS that became one of the trends a few years ago for a short while, we found UA-cam videos of hypnosis training claiming to give the listener the symptoms of various illnesses, as well as forums teaching others how to trick medical professionals and family and friends etc. It’s an uphill battle getting such videos and forums removed. It’s all so deeply disturbing and devastating for genuine sufferers, while some trying to fake an illness permanently physically harm and endanger themselves to try to mimic symptoms. This online ‘adopt an illness’ trend predates 2017 and doesn’t show any signs of slowing down. Predominately it’s vulnerable teens who are attracted to this sick subculture.
He should never have been released. He will do it again. Justice was Not served. Poor Heidi. 🧚♀
Alternate personalities are usually an excuse as are the other ones such as blacking out etc. Great points again. Thanks Dr G😊💜💜
Maybe ‘alternate personalities’ (not as being applied to Donovan here) are dissociative moments, but for some are more prolonged and experienced, and thus felt as a separate part of themselves. Where the mind splits into a part which the doesn’t understand. Or connect with even.?
I had treatment for many years, for my out of proportion reactions in the present, to some events. It became apparent through treatment, (psychological, therapeutic and medical), that some genuinely traumatic events, being relived as flashbacks to past incidents, had left their mark in the present. But…. I never had any thoughts of harming others: my reactions were aimed at myself. This is often seen as ‘attention seeking’. I suggest it’s a protective mechanism, difficult for others to understand, because the behaviour are often negative, and don’t belong in the context of the situation.
I do think the whole area of assessing and treating people who don’t have organic mental illness is not an exact science. I’m an example of someone who sought help and am largely better. It took a long time however and a variety of approaches.
I didn’t ever name or feel the need to name these moments (ie a Jeff’). Interestingly I could not remember all of the details of these dissociative moments’. They were real to me at the time however.
I do believe that psychiatry is only able to understand non organic illness to a limited extent, because science demands proof, concrete fact, diagnosis. Personality Disorders, Borderline Personality Disorders are such a nice way of giving definitions to the sometimes inconsistent presentation of individuals ie the rest of us who behave weirdly.
I cannot pretend to fully understand the experience of having Alternates. I do however know that once professionals started treating me with understanding rather than scepticism, my life was changed for the better. (This was treatment from our wonderful NHS which is currently struggling to stay afloat).
I have outlined my experiences of dissociation as best I can. I then consider Donovan’s claims to having an Alternate. This does not feel believable. It feels more like a spoilt child’s outburst of pure anger. An Evil which took over reasoned thinking.
Going by his history, briefly given here, I don’t go for multiple personalities, whether it exists or not. It was a simmering, underlying hatred. Which he was aware of. I don’t think ‘Jeff’ committed the crime.
Pretty alarming and disgusting that he is free. If he is to harm anyone else, let it be the attorney who fought for his release.
And I thought Canada had a pathetic justice system! I can't believe he is out free! Disgusting.
It’s still not as abhorrent as the OJ case or Emmitt Till’s case.
As in both cases the killers got acquitted and never served any time
I don't think he was faking as much as he was making it happen. I think his mindset was, "I'll create this evil alter ego and then blame everything on him." But obviously, you can't give yourself a bad case of dissociative identity disorder. So, yeah, I'm thinking he's stone-cold guilty.
Glad you spoke on the subject of DID with a healthy dose of skepticism.
It sounds to me like Donovan had an adolescent version of an imaginary friend. He allowed Jeff to take on his negative thoughts and, eventually let ‘him’ act on them. In other words, I think, because of his lonely and troubled life, he created a way to cope-but, unlike DID, he was conscious of what he was doing but, at the same time, he gave in to the fantasy.
Dr.G knows how to kick the day off right!
He sounds like an extremely intelligent person hellbent on using his inteliigence for evil. This is going to end badly for another innocent victim/s. He's *not* a goog person. I feel sorry for his dad who obviously loved her, and everyone else who did too. Did you find out if she was taking drugs, Dr Grande, or was that just his own version of her? Thank you.
How do you know he's intelligent you've never met him
@@tyreseforren6721because at 14 he managed to manipulate and beat the judicial system and psych professionals multiple times. He’s a free man after a setting up a planned out bs narrative in order to commit premeditated murder. Somebody above mentioned this Geoff character is actually a well known internet creepy pasta dating back well before the murder.
There must have been signs of some strange behavior before this happened......if he was actually insane
Yeah, he wrote with dots!
The operator after the 3rd question was having fun.
I remember that scientific papers were saying that clinicians wanted so badly to believe in DID that they were asking people who were susceptible to suggestion questions that would cause a person to seem like they had this disorder. Questions like “was it you who did this? Who did this? Who were you when this happened? Do you ever feel like someone else?” DID is movie stuff.
Thank you for your unswerving commitment to common-sense and reason, Dr Grande. Another beautiful analysis ❤
Must be nice to have some alternate personality that you can blame all your bad behavior on.
There’s a documentary on HBO about the woman who really pushed the DID diagnosis. She was anti death penalty and would go around interviewing death row inmates and basically coaxing them into saying they had multiple personalities.
it would be interesting to see if their was any mental illness in Donovans family
Mental disorders are infectious encephalitis or other brain damage. Herpesviruses usually.
History is important. Look into history of psychology and the asylums.
They've known for 100 years what causes mental problems. Herpesviruses mostly but other neurotropic infections also. All that changed when they developed chemicals. Then we all had chemical imbalances they want to treat with their expensive and also toxic and don't work, chemical drugs. Come non guys, the grift is so obvious. HISTORY IS SO IMPORTANT.
They knew this 100 years ago and treated with heat therapy in the asylums. Why on earth would they do that do u ask? Because heat simulates a fever, the body's way of killing viruses. They knew everyone had herpes rashes on their necks. Same bumps my mom and I both have. Mental disorders aren't hereditary, viruses are. I got mine in the birth canal
I've been researching herpesviruses for over a decade when I did a research project in pathology class. I am also living with small fiber neuropathy from herpes simplex 1. I watched my ex go from Borderline personality disorder to dementia. Newsflash. It's not two different things. It's the same damn thing. It's a brain infection, viral encephalitis causing dementia.
The implications of this are huge. It causes a bunch of ethical and legal issues but it's true so...
Did his Mom do drugs when pregnant? Why did she drop out of his life? Sounds like the Dad wasn't really there emotionally for him at all. Hormones going on and his prior activity on the internet should be interesting to know. He should not be free at all, neither should "Jeff."
Clinicians and their wild theories on "identities" seem to be responsible for a lot of current hardships for patients.
One of your BEST commentaries ever!
As an actual Jeff, I must take exception to his misuse of that name... however, Dr Grande is correct, I am mysterious...
Alternate Personality = trying to look crazier than you are for the jury
Shame these idiots don't ever seem to know the strict definition of "legally insane". You'd think their lawyers (and, in this case, the judge) would, though.
Reminds me I very briefly dated this guy who claimed he had 100 "alters" and one had seriously hurt someone (which is when the very brief relationship ended) but that he had "got help now" so all of his "alters" were good now. Once I ended the relationship, he claimed I was extremely crazy and needed help 🥴
I wonder what happened to his real mother? Did she abandoned him or did his father abandoned the mother?
I still think this boy needs to either be in prison, or in a mentally hospital, all his life, even if he is insane, it doesn’t seem like something you can heal. Imo.
Do people today who are in close proximity to Donavon know about their "neighbor"?
That is interesting because the 9 year-old I wrote about earlier with ASD, ADHD, and possibly ODD, had a member of law enforcement living in his cul-de-sac a couple of houses away.
I'm sorry, but it's hard not to laugh when dr. Grande keeps saying," quote, Jeff is inside of me, un quote."
I wonder what his father thinks of all of this...
Either he’s faking it or he has a demon inside of him
In a wicked world wicked people are born, Richard Ramirez
I pray Donovan gets help and sticks with it for life
Sounds like BPD. PwBPD have a self state that is a secondary psychopath often referred to as the protector.
That sounds interesting,i’ve never heard of that before.
Do a video about the phenomenan of teenagers self-diagnosing with mental disorders after seeing things on social media.
This is so awful and justice definitely wasn't served for Heidi. Tragic. Very scary that this person is back out in society.
It may not have been served to a degree but he still went to prison and got some accountability though I feel him being a minor helped him avoid being in for a long time.
If you think this was a travesty, it’s still nowhere near as abhorrent as the OJ case or the Emmitt Till one. As in both cases the guilty walked free and served no prison time
The operator wasn’t confused, she was getting as much information as possible.
He got away with murder. He took a life and he's living and breathing.
What a shame! Thank you Dr. Grande for covering this. We need to teach our children, and adults, more about responsibility!
I don’t think teaching kids responsibility always plays a part. In every case there’s not enough factual proof behind this criminal case I think it’s on to speak upon a topic we for sure can say exactly what happened. It’s not a unique case. It may have been a cover-up, but I in fact, do not believe that it is a fake“” illness, diagnosis just cause we don’t have factual proof doesn’t mean something doesn’t exist. Think about the ocean for instance, before we went to go explore it, we barely knew anything yet we still don’t know a whole bunch of animals that still exist. You can’t speak with your emotions it’s paramount to speak on exclusively facts
Just a reminder, I'm not diagnosing anybody in this video; only speculating about what could be happening with an imaginary Jeff like this.
In the 80s I had an acquaintance that said they had different personalities. Instead of getting real help from the therapist the therapist played into it . All the time the acquaintance told me they didn't have it but because he played the part well he was able to get on disability.
I think it might be real in very rare and extreme cases. But if you find the wrong doctor instead of truthfully treating the patient they just enable him.
Being depressed because a kid misses their parent and dislikes the stepmother could be millions of kids in the world.
Coming up with a way to rid himself of that’s murder, is very sad and insane. Probably not alternate personality but definitely a troubled person.
One of your best analyses.
This is unfathomable. The fact that this man is walking around after committing such a HEINOUS act. I don't believe that he had an alternate personality. I'm sure that he talked himself into believing it but deep down I don't believe it for a second. If he does this again those that allowed him to walk free should be held accountable. But they of course won't be.
Yet again, another person’s opinion nothing factual, like I keep saying feelings, do not belong anywhere near criminal cases each case is different, regardless of how it may seem
@@Only_FLUSHABLES_Get_You_clean You understand that they used the, "feelings", of expert witnesses to support their position, right? I actually agree with you that criminal trials should be about facts and not about feelings, but that's simply not how the judicial system currently operates.
It’s like some people really need to believe into things they only ever saw in movies
Great episode, fascinating topic; I really enjoyed your connect the dots quip at the end too.
I love it when Dr. Grande talks about a case where the subject is clearly malingering and we get to hear him talk about how their behavior is inconsistent with the disorder
So he went scot-free because he turned 21? Surely the system should have a mechanism in place to prevent that sort of thing? That's insane and outrageous
As a Gen Z 2001 kid, I think People in the 1700s and 1800s would be SHOCKED this modern generation of insanity
Back than they still had problems but they blamed it on demons
Do you really think things were better back then? Witch trials, rampant racism, lawless lands, etc.
Lizzie Borden?
@@Theaddora😂😂😂
@@Theaddorayou fundamentalists killed many people for reasons that defy science or logic
I’d be interested in an analysis of how sleazy defense attorneys like his are able to sleep at night.
Their job is to defend their client. It's up to the judge/jury whether or not to belive them.
Thank you for all the work that you do connecting the dots, one case at the time.
Thanks, Dr. Grande.❤
The way he describes the good and bad sides of his character diverging, it sounds as though ‘Jeff’ was just his conscious personification of one side.
It’s very convenient in all of these cases that the alters with the names known by society have all the good characteristics and other alters with new names are the baddies.
Heartbreaking they fell for this and the victim gets no justice I hope her family sues him in civil court and takes anything he ever has. He should at least get out into a hospital for the mentally insane and he can see what that's like. My prayers are with her family and loved ones.
While you were talking about those dots, I thought, "you are spot on."