Leatherman's Latest Multi Tools : I Am Increasingly Disappointed
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- My personal opinion is that Leatherman has steered away from built them into the premier multi tool company. Lately, their releases have been unenthusiastic, to put it kindly. There are other directions they could explore in the multi tool world, that for whatever reason, they choose not to do so. The innovation has dropped off, as well as the quality control. It has been a disappointing couple of years, I hope they turn the corner soon.
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I'm new to Leatherman, from an outsiders view I think they need to offer custom tools where the customer chooses the inserts. Let me build it my way, choose a frame size, knife, file and saw styles that suite my needs. Some people might pick several knife styles and no files or saws. Leatherman could also offer different head styles, a wire stripper or crimper head. How about smooth jaw pliers or round nose for jewelers or wire workers. There are so many possibilities with a custom shop. They could even sell everything as a kit and let the customer assemble it.
This is a fantastic idea, but it will never happen. It is the same idea I and many others have for Victorinox, a build your own. The problem is if you build your own Leatherman or Victorinox and get exactly what you want and need, you will most likely never buy another and they lose sales.
@@tonyrome655 That's why they also need to sell separate tool and frame replacements and make the tools user serviceable. There is a huge market there if they would be willing to leverage it.
@@tonyrome655 Exactly that, given that both Leatherman and Victorinox are durable and have long guarantees, a custom multitool/SAK would mean that people just bought one of their products, as it is we tend to buy a number of them.
Seeing your comment gave me a pretty far-out-there idea: What if there was a “model” of Leatherman that was more like a Lego set? The customer would receive a big box of disassembled parts, and you could mix and match to your heart’s content.
It certainly wouldn’t be for everyone, but Leatherman wouldn’t exactly be spending a lot of overhead on assembly, so I think it could be a fairly low-risk venture for them.
May i suggest to check out @fittosurvive youtube channel? He makes custom victorinox and since recent he made a leatherman one, he makes them for customers whos intrested
Seeing brands like Leatherman, Victorinox and Casio makes me believe that sometimes the best step forward is to look into the past. Yeoman, 84mm scissors, Juice series, PST II, steel-cased vintages, colorful 90s aesthetics bands etc. explains what i'm saying.
I remember @RomanianTVee saying that the one thing he missed about communism was the shoes. You bought a pair and they lasted for three years regardless of how much you put them through. We were better before companies understood built-in obsolescence.
@@alcmantyrtaeus this. I however make my shoes last years by wearing them until the bottoms fall off. The yeoman is probably the best swiss army knife too, i have an explorer and love it to death.
I second this!!!
The juice series would make a killing these days, no sense in getting rid of that.
@@alcmantyrtaeus Damn eol (end of life), now is everywhere
I mostly agree...I would just rather wipe the wingman/sidekick/rev off the market at this point...and introduce a 4-5oz minimalist tool WITH good steels...no more 420hc
Leatherman wingman better than curl or bond. Reason -> better scissors and package opener. Plus you get spring loaded pliers. This tool is unique. Unlike curl and bond as they copied rebar and wave
@@appleztooranges sorry, no...scissors are definitely not better. And the package opener???? A tool you have to dig out just to open something?? You have an outside accessible knife ...on top of this...the curl can opener can easily be sharpened to do an identical package opening duty without losing any functionality. I've had 5 wingman go through my hands..not one has scissors I would call "good"
@@maxlvledc the bond and the curl are useless, just saying
I think Leathermans 420HC is fine, It is easy to sharpen and stays sharp reasonably well. I do prefer victorinox steel tho.
@@theknifeunboxer9691 fine is relative when things like NitroV and 14c28n can be found in knives at the $20-30 price point.. by comparison 420hc wouldn't even rank in any category. I think 420hc and its cost are cop outs. Are they fine...yes but they were fine in 1990...it's time to move on and grow.
The leatherman curl has the perfect toolset imo for urban work. The biggest criticism I see about that tool is not having a saw yet I’ve never used a saw on a multi tool bc if I need a saw I’ll grab a real saw. I’ll use a file waaaay more than a saw and I use the awl for scraping and boring holes to start screws and various things. Only thing I’d change is I’d like replaceable wire cutters just bc I tend to be hard on them and I have no use for scissors( although most people actually like them) people being mad about the knife coming out in tue bond are too nitpicky, if yours pressing on the pliers the knife won’t come up, simple as that. People are expecting way to much out of simple tools that are designed just to get you by
Who is this for? Someone like me.
I've carried the Surge for years, but now am down to counting ounces for both work and play. I really love the heavier-duty, larger tool set on the Surge. I once had hoped the larger blade would be enough for all my EDC use, but it just hasn't been; Back-up blade 100%, but leaving me to carry a dedicated primary anyway. I rarely ever use the serrated blade, or the micro driver. I do like the saw and awl, but I don't much cut things more than 1"dia with that small saw anyway, and I can do that with my knife easy enough. I always wanted to be able to pocket-clip it and ditch the sheath but it was always too large. My 1st Gen Surge doesn't have replaceable cutters anyway, and the t-shank exchanger annoyed me because it cut into the usable length of the tools.
All that said, the Curl strips down those things I don't need, keeps the things I do, like one-hand-opening blade, awl, file
(Oh BTW, for woods-type work, which I do a lot of, with the awl, the file is still VERY appropriate for sharpening tools and blades in the field etc)
It's simplified, stripped down to the essentials I really want/need. It's slimmer and lighter than even the Wave, yet I don't lose anything out of the Wave that I wish I had... it's $20 less, 2.5 ounces lighter w/o sheath, slimmer, and simpler. A win in my own personal book, even though I completely see your points in a general sence.
Agree. The curl isn't for everyone, just like the surge and rev aren't. It curl has a place in their lineup. Between the wave, rebar, curl, skeletool, and wingman $60-100, there's a good option depending on your preference of price, size, functionality.
That blade issue on the bond is a major concern. You can't have the knife opening on you when trying to use other tools...
Everyone who bought one should have returned it right away. Maybe That would have gotten Leathermans attention along with the unsold Bonds sitting on shelves.
Please give examples of when this is bad in real life.
This has been an issue with leatherman for years and know one cared. I have a rebar that I’ve owned for years that has the same issue, from the box, and nobody said anything. This is not a new issue from leatherman unfortunately
They need to come out with a re-designed juice series!!!
They’ll just make it worst. Take away tools and people will say great! It’s lighter.
agree
Such a shame that Leatherman don't seem to appreciate the feedback from their key customer base, guys who use the tools every day, mod their tools and collect them. As you suggest, offering more variation on their tried and tested models would please many people at not much cost to the company.
Logical, sensible, justifiable, thoughtful, understandable, intelligent points and arguments 👍.
Except he doesn't back up his issues with real live examples.
It seems to me that he's piggybacking on other's work and not even adding anything new.
@@armenchuck I think he does a good job of expounding on his points and arguments.
Piggybacking on others work? Are you kidding me? I call em like I see them. That’s why when every reviewer was kissing Leatherman’s ass over the FREE series, I was the only one telling people the truth. Piggybacking others work pfft…….GTFOH!
@@txtoolcrib Ok LOL 😐. But why are you replying to me with this sort of hostility or "sterness" ?.
I'm not the one who posted the negative comment. If anything, I came to your defense.
No need to jump down my throat 😐.
I wasn’t responding to your comment. I pressed reply to the other gentleman. My apologies.
Leatherman ran out of ideas at the FREE series. Now they're on a cash grab.
Instead of this crap they need to focus on QC and bring back the juice series.
FREE isn't even that great. If they stop wasting resources on "innovative" features like magnets and focused on user feedback, they would actually be lightyears ahead
@@BrandonGavin_EDC the harsh truth is the juice series was discontinued because it wasn’t selling. Leatherman has made a name for the “enthusiast” who wants tools like the tread, and free series. Gimmicks
Another fellow Texan here. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m a fan of the Curl. It was made for someone like me. I want something thinner and more lightweight than the Wave+ for everyday carry. I also want an outside accessible blade, which the Bond does not have. I do agree that it is probably $10 more than it should be for what you get.
I love the bond for what it is. A uk legal, full sized tool, with a knife. Yes the knife looseness is a problem, but I’m yet to injure myself on it. My biggest issue is the knife steel quality. I primarily use it for opening boxes and cutting cardboard at work. I’ve only had it a couple months and it’s already dulling. I used a wave+ prior to that and after 2 years it’s still razor sharp.
I am yet to purchase the bond yet, but it is on my shopping list. What you say has me a bit worried, shouldn't the two blades should both be made of the same 420HC unless you have a Wave in a premium steel. Could it be an issue with the grind geometry on the blade or other QC problem?
It's rather an issue of sheer knife size. The Waves blade is almost double the thickness.
Cardboard dulls knives very easily
For cardboard boxes, get a $10.00 Canary - it's a Japanese tool with a serrated, non-stick blade. Goes through cardboard and packing tape like butter. Yes, it 's a single tool, but it's great.
@@jeffhaas9577 thanks I’ll look into it
I love love love my Curl. It’s in my pocket every shift as a Fireman and gets lots of use. I love how much slimmer it is than my Wave+. I actually swapped out the pliers on them so my Curl now has the replaceable cutters. The Curl is wonderful for a pocket carry multitool that’s not too bulky. It’s exactly what I was looking for.
The multitool I carried back in the day had the same issue with the knife as the Bond. However it was a nonlocking Gerber I bought at the mall for less than $30. It was my one and only MT for almost 20 years. It's still fine except the file rusted.
The biggest mistake they made was to discontinue the Juice line... I have no idea why they done that.
They probably did it to create a market for overpriced minimalist platforms like the skeletool and the wave's siblings (sidekick and wingman).
Victorinox could make a killing in the plier-based multitool market right now if they added one-hand opening and a pocket clip to the Spirit line.
The one hand version is already a reality, shown in this channel. Missing the pocket clip though.
I have the one handed Spirit MXBS and it occupies pride of place on my work desk. Best tool ever.
I have read reports that newer Bonds do not have the knife issue. I don't recall anything official being said by LM, but it seems like they have addressed it. The point still stands that it shouldn't have occurred to begin with.
I've read so any posts about QA issues, poor customer service, etc that I cannot give them anymore of my money. If I get another LM it'll probably be used and a gen 2.
Personally I think Bob Rivera (CEO of LM), needs to step down and go back to engineering. Since he took over, LM has been on a downward spiral.
I am one of those customers who bought a Bond recently and don't have the issue with the blade that Ben has concerns with. The blade is in fact easy to come out but it's not loose. It won't come out even if I shake it really hard.
I'm not disregarding any of his points but that's my two cents.
Is there a modification to the blade, or did they just tighten the tool up? And if that is the case, it is possible that over time it could loosen and present the same problem? I’m curious if they actually fixed it, or just put a bandaid on it.
@@txtoolcrib I made zero modification to the tool. The blade on my Bond is certanily not as loose as yours so it is possible that they have tighten it a bit for sure. I can't be certain but if that is the case what you said could happen. Even though I'm happy with my Bond I would prefer it if the knife blade is making contact with the frame at all times.
I think the Bond with a sheepfoot blade would be an awesome minimalist multi-tool, it's basically an upgraded PST II.
I love the full serrated sheepsfoot on the rebar!
Its not just with these multitools Leatherman has problems with, their QC department its very very questionable. I could go on a mad rant but I think most multitool owners will know what I mean. What really is happening is the era of the multitool has come almost full circle. What the four main companies need to realise is people want to select their own tools for their multitools have it customised to their liking (within engineering reason) The sooner these companies do that we can move forward. .... On a little side note and speaking from a European standpoint giving the cost of Leatherman waves and surges etc s30v steel should be standard on knife blades period.
But according to the LM engineers that did an AMA on reddit, QC is better than ever! It's just these few loud voices on the Internet blowing things out of proportion.
Then there are maybe have a dozen or so posts on LMs reddit where everyone is showing their rebar with pliers that don't line up. Seems like LM is just happy to tread water and honestly people will continue to buy their products , so why shouldn't they.
Reddit is almost as bad as asking Twitter about doing a good multi tool.
I still have my original leatherman multitool, Still a great tool.
The only thing it needs is a pocket clip.
I love my old PST. I have lost it a couple of times, then refound it again, but every time I lose it, I wonder what type of Leatherman I'd replace the old PST with since the old PST isn't made anymore. So, I bought the new Bond. It's fine, and the price was right. No regrets. However, your rant was what YOU'D like to see, so I will tell what I'D like to see. Your minimalist rant is great, but I need the knife blade. And I need the pliers. And I need screwdrivers. So, make a minimalist version with pliers, and on one side put the knife blade and awl, and on the other side put a FULL SIZE 1/4 inch bit driver that accepts an everyday bit that could be bought at any hardware store. I'd buy that.
But, really, Leatherman needs to be able to offer the option of a "configure your own" tool in a modular concept, wherein a customer could order just the tools he wants and none other. People would pay a custom price for such a custom made tool of Leatherman quality.
That small screwdriver/awl on PST II was ideal for unclogging a jammed stapler.
But I thought the same has you with the minimalist theme. Pliers, combo knife, Phillips screwdriver, bottle opener...that would work fine vast majority of the time. That ruler on the outside of PST II came in handy quite a few times.
That would sell.
They should bring whole juice line back with kf4, xe6 etc.
I work in a machine shop and the magnets on the Free is a non issue. I would never even know it had magnets in it.
The skeletool is about the best offering I can get for my needs. A one hand opening blade with decent steel and in a small package. I just wish it had scissors.
Yes!
I just don't like the awkward shape of it when using pliers. I use it but I don't love it, haha. Nice little too though.
I carried a skeletool daily for 2 years. Discovered the wave and haven’t looked back. Carries better in the pocket and is 3 times as useful
Lol and nobody followed me on this. As I said before, Leatherman is following Apple in removing features on their tools this year. I don’t think people should be downgrading. Less is not more!!
Less is lighter though. I don’t need a 5 pound tool for casual EDC
@@BigBoat1234 id like to try carrying my surge. It great feeling knowing all the tools are their that you need. Especially in an emergency situation.
@@BigBoat1234 so isnt my wingman. I’d pick that tool over these tools anyday. It has the package opener and the scissors. Lot of hate for the wingman and sidekick. Rather these two over the two releases anyday. And they come with pocket clips
@@BigBoat1234 I’m sure next year Leatherman will take the surge multitool and remove 2 outside tools and call it innovation
I like my Wingman. It’s not perfect, and a little heavy to carry in my pocket (lives in my laptop bag). But I picked it up about three years ago from Lowe’s for $30. I would not spend more than that on it though.
I bought a super tool when it first came out,I then bought a 2nd gen wave,and finally upgraded to a charge al.I still have all 3 and they are in great condition.I have not seen anything produced by leatherman since that I would consider an upgrade, I'm glad I got them when I did, I doubt I will buy any more leatherman products.
I 100% agree with this…leatherman has just taken pre existing tools and charging more money for them…I think inventions like the skeletool were amazing, I carry my CX to this day…. They need to think more practical, more reliable…, it’s very disappointing what has been going on lately….
Totally agree with you! I work as a stagehand doing electrical and AV work. I mainly use an OHT unless I need a wider tool set. If Leatherman could come up with a sprung version of the Surge, I’d have everything I need
Unfortunatly they don't make the perfect tool for everyone, I always use a charge+ but I sometimes wish I had the OHT, guess whe can't have everything
Fellow Texan here. Stumbled upon your channel 3 months ago and it has become one of my favorites! I have now started collecting Leatherman multitools because of your videos and I just picked up my 3rd different Surge. Gotta hunt down a first gen Surge now...
Welcome aboard! Glad to have you.
I'd also love a knifeless version! I keep my wave in the same backpack I frequently travel with (I take it to work too) and I always need to take it out when flying. That means no pliers, no screwdrivers, etc while I am travelling. I have had to mail it home at TSA before due to forgetting it too.
TBH, I'd buy the curl over the wave if I didn't have a wave already. The serrated knife is borderline useless and I don't use the saw for much. Whenever I need a saw, I usually have a better one on hand. If I am in my workshop, I have nice japanese hand saws and if I am in the outdoors, I have a silky or a nordic pocket chainsaw, which both work much faster and on much wider pieces of wood than leatherman's saw does. The only time I use the wave saw is in my to-go style toolbox where minimalism is the name of the game. The idea behind that tool box is to carry everything I need to do minor household work.
I have both models. My very first Bond I got from REI, the blade was flop out without any force. Just had the Curl for the few days, not sure where they were headed in this tools direction. Honestly I still recommend the Rebar or Wave+ for anyone getting into a multi tool. And agreed with the price on the Curl. If they added the saw to the Curl, then I'd be more interested.
I ordered my Curl with the intention of swapping the file for a Wave's saw. That will make it just about perfect for my needs.
Great video! Leatherman has been stepping on their tail for awhile now. The key to a company’s success is innovation. Leatherman should want to be the leader of the pack and promote its self as the one who designs, develops, and manufactures in America. It’s time for Leatherman to develop a new platform or take something like the Wave platform and develop a reconfigurable multitool. Create a common / general purpose platform that could consist of / be offered in different materials and sizes, that would allow the user to select and configure the tools required for their own application. Leatherman needs to develop the general purpose platform and crank out all types of tools for the platform. The platform could support locking or unlocking tools. Let the user create / develop a tool for their application that meets the rules & regulations for the country that the live in. Leatherman could generate a revenue stream by licensing the general purpose design and continue to manufacture their own version. It’s time for Leatherman to innovate!
Totally agree with you here Tex. I guess they were aiming for potential in each level of the MT market. They failed, which is absolutely normal, since Leatherman is the best MT manufacturer out there, and instead of a next-level SURGE or WAVE, we have these...
I just can't get their vision anymore, Tim has to have a comeback after these.
While my Super Tool 200 & Surge weep :)
Germany has been the second place for Leatherman tools for ages. Leatherman really wants to reconquer the German market with tools that are legal to carry here. And I really appreciate that, for example the Leatherman wave 2H is awesome. It's the Wave but with knives that require two hands to open. Bang, perfect. But the pricing here in Germany is ridiculous. In the US the Wave+ costs 99$. Here in Germany it's 149€ which is roughly 175$. Why is that? The 'normal' Wave has been 99€ and the replaceable wire cutters just made the price jump to 150%. And for 159€ I can get a Multitool from Victorinox and in the realm of pure crafting quality Victorinox is beating the sht out of Leatherman with their sharp edges and play in every single tool. Sure, Leatherman is the cool brand and their warranty and replacement service is second to none. Sorry for the rambling but Leatherman's product development really doesn't stand up to the ever rising competitors and if they don't get to up their manufacturing quality and precision or hit the market with something really innovative I'm sure in a few years Victorinox will take the place of the most popular multi-tool brand in Europe.
I'm hoping the curl is for me. Been carrying a Wave for 7-8 years. Its thick and heavy to pocket clip. So I holster it mostly. Well I dress business professional for work. Holster isn't professional. So I usually pocket clip a wingman while working and off duty the Wave. Hoping the upgrade from the Wingman will be pleasant.
I think it is quite a bit more capable than the Wingman.
Agree that they would thrive on more minimalist tools. The skeletool is a big success yet it's left as the only current on in it's category. I dream about something like a PST being slightly reduced to 3.5 in and with a very smooth body when closed, maybe as a new take on a even more compact sideclip.
I'm curious about the Curl compared to the Rebar. The Knifeless Rebar isn't perfect but for the size, is there a better knifeless pliers-based multi-tool? BTW, good point about the magnets in the Free series. That's why I've avoided them. I'd definitely like to see more innovation in the Juice and Squirt sizes. I'd also like to see a better budget steel in the blades.
From UK. I made my Rebar knifeless long before Leatherman. I think its a near perfect medium duty MT partnered with a good slipjoint. I also have a Fuse also made knifeless. A superb MT for slightly lighter duty.
Very good points. But one thing I don’t think you’re thinking about is that leatherman has to look at more demographics than just us multi tool and edc enthusiasts. We are probably a relatively small slice of their customer base. I imagine there is a huge sector of buyers that throw a leatherman in their shopping cart for their husband for Christmas at cabelas. These people are not hyper focused on the minute details like we are. And they have to keep cost at a level that these people don’t mind tossing it in their cart. So try to think about the wide customer base leatherman has to contend with, and don’t just focus on the users like you and I
With the minimalist tools point. You basically described the milwaukee fastback. I just got one thats a utility knife, liner lock 1/4" bit driver, and cap lifter. And the handle scales sneakily hides an extra blade. If leatherman released a higher quality take of that tool with the bit driver they already have designed and a simple liner lock blade they would sell like hot cakes.
How often I only use the knife and sometimes need a bit driver. Leatherman if your listening just make a customizer where you can pick out either pliers or a knife and you can pick a few of several swappable tools. It would probably cut down your product line and give customers exactly what they want. For example just give us the option to just replace the set of thin tools with the bit driver. like I dont want an awl, scissors and a cap lifter where could just fit a decent 1/4" bit driver in its spot.
The first handle on the pliers you would be stuck with those tools, like the knife and cap lifter, and the second handle we could have maybe three options. the crafter pack with the file and scissors etc, the oudoors set with the awl and saw etc, or the work set with a bit driver and maybe a pry bar etc.
btw the milwauki fastback is less than $20 so there is a gap in the market for higher end competing product.
I know I'm quite late to this but I recently purchased a Leatherman bond and I can confirm that the knife issues have been resolved. most notably, the blade shape has been changed to more of a "sheepsfoot" shape. additionally, it seems the machining tolerances have been improved so that the knife blade has much less play before making contact with the slip joint spring. The end result is that the knife point and edge do not pass above the frame without intentional opening
Speaking of knifeless, they should consider making a Leatherman rev variant where instead of the knife, you get the wingman scissors instead and make sure there's no awl because they can considered knives too. Also add a non pointy strap cutter similar to the oht strap cutter with O2 wrench built in.
Or a wingman Variant where the knife blade is replaced with a the safety cord cutter like the oht again and also inside, add a saw with no tip or allow a remgrit saw. Either would be excellent for airport travel.
As the magnetic features, i generally see one handed tool as pointless to me because chances are if I'm working on something, I'm using two hands anyways. The oht will be the only one hander multi tool I'll ever buy and i like the oht.
Thanks for your thoughtful video.
I just purchased a Skeletool CX and a Wave +. The difference in finish quality between the two is astounding. The Wave + is a little stiff but opens smoothly and has no obvious mechanical flaws. It feels like a well crafted product. The Skeletool feels like they didn't do any fit and finish work on the mechanism. It feels like there is sand or metal filings in the hinges and is extremely stiff. I'm going to disassemble the Skeletool and do some cleanup work on the mechanism; but I shouldn't have to do that on such an expensive tool.
On a related note, the reason that I purchased the Skeletool is so that I could reduce the number of things that I carry as EDC. I wanted a knife that was good enough for most tasks, a pliers that was good enough for most tasks, and screwdrivers that are good enough for most tasks. I have ZERO interest in a multitool that does not have pliers.
The MUT and Raptor are tools that deserve to be advertised, while Bond and Curl are simply filling the budget niche.
EDIT: Bond and Curl fill the budget niche, but this fact alone should not justify the low quality of these tools.
Yes, get the Charge. It has all the tools that the Bond and Curl are really missing.
@@TTTbasco After tons of consideration, I got indeed the Charge, and I believe this is the perfect choice for my needs. Cheers!
Curl is good for edc. For my need.. i prefer it more than my wave+..but i can understand why hard use user will say curl aint that good. But for edc and daily normal-medium/light use...this curl is very good imo.
The knife blade in the Bond would still be illegal in the UK, so they messed that part up too.
It doesn't lock per se, but you can open the blade and then close the handles, thus preventing the blade from being able to completely close. That's enough to make it not "capable of folding during use", and thus illegal for general EDC.
These new tools are a serious step backwards! For Leatherman to learn everyone needs to stop ‘collecting’ and just stay with what works - the wave and surge. If we as consumers don’t buy all these new experimental tools with all kinds of missing features then the company will have to rethink their future and not treat us as fanboys who will buy every new thing so they won’t need to care for their bottom line.
I like these particular missing features though
I totally agree on a minimized/slim tool (the Skeletool just doesn't count IMO). I think they could reduce the pliers size slightly, maybe 15% or whatever, and then take the approach of the Bond except make the handles only the width of the pliers and have 1 or 2 tools in each side. No knife, no blades of any kind and an overall smaller, lighter, thinner tool. I understand that there is a comfort issue and that they roll the edges with that extra space but I'm fine with loosing a tool to roll the edges in. I have an old Wave and Wave+ and I love them, but I have realized over the years for an "EDC" tool I just don't love the half pound chunk in my pocket that only really has 3 or 4 things I use "commonly". It feels like that is the direction the Bond and Curl are pointed toward, they just didn't commit.
It seems like Leatherman has run out of ideas. Tim Leatherman should let his R&D department go and hire all new, more creative, people. There are enough people across N. America that Leatherman shouldn't worry about tool restrictions. Just target every citizen in the non-restricted knife states. (And you're correct, I never use the blade on my Surge, deferring to my Buck.) Great review, Ty.
Fantastic video. I love my Curl and didn't feel that it was overpriced. You're 100% correct when you said Leather has run out of ideas. I own several Leatherman and love them all. But, I have yet to purchase a Free Series tool.
I had the same problem with the Rebar as you are having with the Bond. Where the the knife blade peeks out while trying to use the pliers. I returned it and moved on to something else.
Totally agree. I've carried a Charge AL for the last 11 years. I've looked at everything they have come out with since then as a possible upgrade and nothing seems to come close to the perfection of the Charge series for me.
Agree with A lot of your thoughts👍 I actually like the Curl but gotta agree should be like $59.99 imo and the Saw should be there instead of the file for sure. And lastly Leatherman should definitely put out a bladeless full featured multitool. That is a great Idea and seems like for all the great multitools they've come out with over the years the people at Leatherman would have done this already. Maybe there just isn't a big enough market for them to justify doing it.
I disagree. A multitool needs a good knife.
Hi, New follower here.
Great Video's! What about the Bercol 15 in 1 Multitool for $32.99 ? They claim only .5 inch thick for all that power!
The Atqana Multitool Sheath,
Extra Dark Brown, is on the way to me for $20. Looks like the real deal
with old school beautiful thick leather.
Weak point is it needs a thinish
Multitool. This is for Dress.
'Sunday Outfit' :-)
Also have a Black Multi Sheath coming with good fake leather
for $3.99 for banging around.
May be a 'Badhammer'
Looks real good for that kind of money. At least on Video.
Will soon see in person.
Thanks
@ TX tool crib on the free p4 you can take a nail and use the wire crimper below the pliers and squeeze down. It will loosen the pliers up because I have the same issue as you
I think it’s a bad Rebar and a bad Wave. I thinks it’s good that they’re trying to innovate, but when you get it right you get it right. They’ve made many fantastic tools, I don’t think it’s a good idea to make less functional versions of those tools.
My Bond came with the tools super tight. None of the tools would flop out. I loosened the pivots a little bit with a pair of aftermarket wrenches that are made to fit the tamper-resistant bolt heads, so that I could get the retention to where I was comfortable with it. I also replaced the file with a saw from a Leatherman Rebar. I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of my Curl, at which point I will replace its file with the saw from an old Wave that I harvest parts from.
While this would require some engineering to figure out how to do well, I think taking the Wave+ as a base, dropping the external straight and serrated blade, replacing them with scissors and an extended driver, exchanging the internal bit exchanger for bit storage in the vein of what Victorinox does on some of their multi-tools, and putting a serrated blade on the inside would make a great tool. The internal scissors would no longer be needed and would help make room for the serrated blade and, potentially, an awl could be added. Everyone is going to have a take on whether the serrated blade, saw blade, or file should be on the inside. I feel like the saw and file have the greatest need for the length being external would afford. The serrated blade, while also benefitting from additional length, won't lose too much effectiveness if done right.
That's just my hot take, though. So maybe I'm missing something big outside of that they'd need to put some time in to make it as this wouldn't be a magickly simple swapping tools around type of job.
What are people using the 3” knife blade on these for, that couldn’t be done with a smaller 1” blade?
It’s not just locking that’s a problem, it’s also the size. A small slip joint would be fine and legal without being bladeless which’d be missing a useful element.
Tbh, Leatherman should hire you as a consultant Ben. I think make some really great points on how Leatherman could improve their multitools.
Free P and T series are probably targeting the urbanites edc market who don’t work in environment that have metal dust/particles. Most people who are unhappy with recent new releases are handymen and tradesmen who were/are Leatherman main target market since its founding. Curl and Bond are for people who are light edc carriers and need only few specific tools in their line of work. I get that Leatherman is trying to expand its market base but I feel they should do revisions of existing tools for their handymen/tradesmen market base.
I'm one of those that always carry a folding knife so I wish there were more multi-tools that were knifeless.
I have to agree regarding the Curl. What exactly is the point when you could can spend just a few more dollars and get a better quality with more tools mt.
My first Leatherman was a Rebar. And since then I've acquired the Surge, Wave+ and the Free P2. I think I'll stick with what I've got, and I'll be ok.
I think the curl is a nice multitool that is priced reasonably compared to the wave in my country, in the netherlands the wave+ costs 150 euros and the curl costs 100 euros so its 1/3 cheaper here.
Well, that is 66% the cost of the Wave. If the American price were $66-67, I would have no problem with its price point.
@@txtoolcrib Yeah, but our prices are ridiculous as well, the wave is 150 euros which is the same as 176 dollars, so our leathermans are way overpriced as well
Not that I am arguing with you, but how did this come about? I have a LM Supertool 300 and the blade has never come out in this fashion. True, the file has, but that has never been a problem. It's just one of those things. I am never going to cut my hands on a file.
The Bond and the Curl are just great ideas. I do like Leatherman as a firm. My problem is the issue of 'jumping the shark.' I think that the LM 300 is great. It is great because it still has the pedigree of the originals. However, the newcomers all look like Christmas decorations. Or is it just me?
I totally agree with You. And why Leatherman has not acknowledge the blad issues is VERY concerning. And by the way Leatherman company. Make a Leatherman wave that has a package opener tool. Like the one on the Leatherman wingman. HELLO. A lot of People nowadays shop online and have packages delivered to their house, place of work and businesses.
Just curious, why don’t you use the knife or scissors to open the packages? I usually use my pen knife and/or scissors to open them.
@@designdolphin I do usually use the knife. However I really like that package opener tool on the wingman. To Me it is a much safer way to open packages.
I couldn't agree more with all your points Ben. I think a plier-based minimalist tool with a replaceable craft knife style function would be perfect for the farming/hay making community.
Does anyone know which tools fit best to replace the knife blade in the Bond?
I like the concept of thin EDC. Wish I could still buy a Kick. But agree, always have a knife don't need it in the Leatherman.
So I just purchased the Gerber Armbar Slim and Rocktol Wave clone. Maybe because I am less of a tool guy but love my Armbar as a minimalist tool as it has everything I need with nothing I do not. The Wave clone... some parts are stiff but in general I do not like having non spring loaded pliers.
Without the blade issue you and many others talk about (thank you!), I think that Bond cost too much comparing, for example Rebar. In this case, Bond should be about $35-38 with the clip included. Basically, one can easily buy Rebar for about the same price as Bond or even cheaper. I am one of those people. I wanted Bond, but bought Rebar because in my opinion it's kinda stupid to buy Bond if for about the same money I could buy Rebar. I understand that let's say in England this may not make sense because of the knife law, but I don't live there. And I TOTALLY agree with you bout knifeless versions of multitools. I would like to see more of then on the market. Also, besides the price, I believe that instead of the blade, they could have put a wood saw and make it knifeless.
Hello, Ben - excellent points - it really defies logic how Leatherman would put out 2 tools that have a market waiting for them (Europe) and they can't buy them because one has a QC problem and the other a locking blade and price-point problem...I think you are correct that they have run out of ideas - if so, is it pride or arrogance that keeps them from talking to their customer base to get input and fresh ideas for their R&D division? I get the feeling that Marketing wants to do R&D and that is not their function...I wonder what the founder thinks about all of this?Can he do something about it? The ship seems to have problems with its steering and rudder and it's starting to drift...
Great summary Ben 👍
I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts.
@@txtoolcrib your comments make loads of sense Ben. A compact LM is what a lot of us are crying out for and a knifeless option would also be great because as you say there would be no issues on legality and user can chose their favourite knife to run with it which is likely to be more capable than the onboard knife anyway. I am away on holiday at the moment and the LM I have with me is the PST II - which speaks volume for a compact tool!
As for the Curl I do see a benefit - I would pocket carry the Curl but not the Wave (ignoring locking blade complication in UK and elsewhere) - which gives it a reason to exist for me, and if the cost comes down a bit then the value statement starts to make sense too.
I'm one of those people who carry a very good folder. I have NO use for a knife blade on a multi-tool. A Surge and a Wave with no knife blades would be awesome. Taking the blades out of the Surge and giving me a saw AND a file without having to swap them out, along with the large scissors and maybe a longer driver like you talked about would be a nearly perfect tool.
If Leatherman made a bladeless tool with a full sized bit holder (like the Gerber Centerdrive) and the jigsaw blade holder from the Surge I'd buy one at the drop of a hat. A sub 3" slip-joint blade would be okay as long as it doesn't make holes in my pocket/leg (Victorinox and a whole host of other companies manage it) but if space is limited I'd rather have a decent pair of scissors.
I think they made the Bond because they found a bin of serrated screws. No idea why they made the Curl. Maybe had other bits left over. A shout out for Free, at least all new. Because I'm partly a collector the price is less important but the P2 is the MT I carry because of outboard tools. Never understand why peeps want to deploy pliers to use a screwdriver.
I would love a Leatherman with the replaceable wire cutter blades, truss style phillips, medium flat head, scissors, and awl. I would love it even more if they would just go ahead and make their stuff customizable similar to like I think you can do with a SAK. Have the base frame and let us choose what tools to have in it. Even if it is a limited selection based on the frame, that's fine, just let me choose what is and isn't in my multitool without having to build my own after the fact and potentially voiding my warranty. Also making the tools user serviceable and selling replacement parts would be awesome as well so we could maybe build up a selection of tools to swap out when we wanted to. Also, NOBODY WANTS THE STINKING LANYARD LOOP!!! lol
Just omitting the blade all together would be the best way to get around those laws and then some. Most people who would carry a multi tool will also have a knife on them regardless, so it is a redundant tool anyway and not having it enables it to be carried not only in countries with more comprehensive knife laws, but also in zones that ban knifes altogether and that does effect everybody, no matter the country. There are always some areas, establishments or whatever where you can't have a blade on you and this would be fine in ll of them.
the thing with the curl is that if it had a saw over the file then it would be in too much competition with the sidekick
Someone tested their Free P4 with metal shavings and powder. It didn't affect the tool at all.
That one surprised me.
Have you seen the GOAT multitool Kickstarter?
It's a fully customizable multitool
I agree that the curl should be in the range of $60 and I think it is a perfect size for a pocket clip while the wave is just a bit bulky.
The skeletool is my favorite EDC but needs a little more tools….
Bam the curl to fill the gap!
I'm a UK leatherman buyer and definitely wish there was more designed to be uk legal so I have more options
I'm pretty disappointed with Leatherman these days because they have stopped selling their products in stores in my area and it is a big hassle to deal with their company. They keep trying to refuse business from me every time I place an order, and now they are threatening to never sell to me again just because I have been buying their products. They seem to be going out of business, and at this point they should go out of business (because of how they are treating their paying customers)... but I really hope they will allow me to buy the last few things to complete my Leatherman collection before they stop existing.
You're so overly hard on the free series because of the magnets. I work in ship repair where everything is metal fab and my free p2 and t4 gum up with pocket lint (just like my wave) before they do metal dust. That's really a problem in your head and not the tool.
The newer tools (even the free series) seem to be much more geared towards urban EDC stuff, not so much actual work.
I think the Curl is in a pretty good spot for this market spec wise, but the price does hold it back from being great. It's lighter, thinner, smoother, perfect for in the pocket.
The Bond makes sense for obvious reasons, but I agree the knife issue is unforgivable. I still say sheeps foot, it makes a lot of sense for the niche it's trying to fill anyways.
The P4 is a very expensive fidget toy, but it's certainly not bad and carries nicely in the pocket so I kinda like it. Just don't take it anywhere near the workplace.
I think the wave/charge/surge platform is super hard to improve on, so I understand why they are going in this direction.
I personally think the best (and maybe only) way truly forward is to make an elegant modular platform from scratch. Give us frames to choose from, let us select the tools we want on it.
Not only would it be better for the user, they could potentially save cost on warranty and such. Why send the whole tool back and be out for a month if you could just buy a new module for 10-20 bucks? Have backups nearby? Alternative tools, etc. Much more money to be made(and saved) for them, much more functionality to be had for us.
A great multitool would be the Curl frame but with a wood saw and scissors from the Surge on the exterior. I would really like to see more bladeless Leatherman tools; I carry a good folding knife anyway so I never use the blade on a multitool.
I think your in the right area, The bean counters at Leatherman seem to be running the show, Not the engineers and the customers, It appears they are knocking out variants with no focus just to sell them on, And at $ 80 bucks, I would rather either spend more or a different Leatherman or have a separate pair of pliers and buy a Victorinox Swiss Champion
Actually, I think a file has a better value for an outdorsman since the saw will probably not be your primary source to cut wood, a proper axe would be a beter choice. The file is very useful for sharpening your tools, I've used the file way more than the saw, sharpening other sharp tools. Some of the Leatherman series allows you to detach the filing blade and acually use it to sharpen your own leatherman knife.
I think a good saw is superior to an axe in cutting trees but when you are going to the nature you get your knife axe/saw with you and you get your multitool to cover the in between so I agree a file to sharpen your axe and main knife and shape your carvings is miles better than a small file
It’s been bizarre to see them go from the Free series to these more retro inspired MTs. It seems the company has been pretty unbalanced in their product development and QC. Did they get new leadership? Has their been a change in company culture? Something is off there.
That I don't know.
I love the Bond but I wish it came with scissors. At least then it would match the PST.II toolset. Plus the pocket clip should've been included. As it was when it was released it was just a slightly disappointing "modern" release of the PST, without any of the charm of the original and without much in the way of 21st century Leatherman features. It's great we finally have a full-size multitool that's legal to carry for the UK and Europe but it could've been so much more.
The Curl on the other hand seems completely pointless. If you want a one-handed EDC multitool with locking tools the Wave is just a much better option all round imo. More tools, a bigger aftermarket, and better functionality. The Curl gets the worst of both worlds being illegal to carry in many countries due to the locking OHO blade but on the tools where you actually might prefer a lock i.e. the screwdriver, you don't get one.
Every time Leatherman announce a new tool I'm excited for about 10 seconds and then instantly disappointed. The Bond is a good tool, I like it, but I have to modify it myself to make it perfect. Sheepsfoot blade, scissors, pocket clip. Stuff that should've been included but I now have to spend additional time and money on.
Yeah, a curl with a blade saw is what I’m looking for. Can I buy a saw blade and swap em over?
I used my gen 2 cutters (wave ti edition) every day for five years without mercy. Mostly inappropriately hard wire. No problems at all. Apart from that day the police stole my pocket knife and my freedoms. I like how you are sensitive to the laws we "contend with," Ben. You're the good guys lol
I agree on the new way LM has gone, I used the Surge daily for work, then a P4, My AirPods and phone attracted more metal shavings and filings than the LM did, somewhat a decent recovery on the tool, I only used the free p4 due to always being on ladders and 1 hand operation was seriously a must, I got a Charge and find it to be such a better tool as an assistant when working on my cars, If I don't have to the P4 doesn't get touched cause ultimately it sucks compared.
I thought the same thing on the price, but once i carried it for a week i didn’t mind the price so much. It’s replaced my leatherman Surge as an EDC. The surge will always be king but weight for edc requires a good belt or some strong pant pockets 😂. Great review 👍
As an electrician for 40 years I never left the house without my leatherman . And used many different letherman models . The side clip was my fav . But I agree with your 100% on those 2 models .
Great review
Thank you sir.
I wish they would create a modern version of the streamlined Sideclip but with some of the Curl implements. It’s so much more pocketable.
I love the SideClip. That is what a minimalist tool should be!
Hi Ben,have you seen or heard of a multitool called Goat tool multitools, next level edc on his channel has one an links in description on where to get one thought of picking one up myself I just wondered cause you do such a good job deep detail reviews an opinions on multitools,thanks again an yes I agree with you on these two tools,Leatherman is disappointing lately with their tools,in future I hope no more 420 but s30v or s35vn blades an tools,goat tools has tools where you simply can pop them off with a flip of a lever on the tool,an can add what ever tools you'd like,also,replaceable cutters,I comes with an Allen key tool on itself to take off which I think is awesome to be able to work on the tool for tighten or loosening an adding other handle scales,like your options of wood,brass etc.,over all,next to the surge,I believe this tool is gonna give Leatherman a run for there money,may be better than mulitforce an bayberry, tools as well in my opinion
I'm wondering if I should get the Leatherman bond i really like the looks of it but in a few reviews of it some people are saying it's an outstanding little multi tool and other people are saying don't buy it 🤔??
i still cant understand why Leatherman juice was discontinued