Porsche 996.2 v 997.1 GT3: same price… which is best?
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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The 996.2 and 997.1 GT3 can be had for around the same money currently, so which is best? While they have much in common, there's also a raft of differences separating these two exquisite Porsche 911s, which we in explore in great detail as part of this 911 GT3 geek fest.
A huge thanks to Toby Dyer and the 997 owner for their trust and kindness in letting me drive these two stunning examples bought from the legends at Paragon Porsche. You can take a look at Paragon's current stock here: 9werks.co.uk/p...
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Another vote for the 996 GT3. I had a 996.1 GT3 Club Sport with a Manthey K400 kit for 12 years and loved it. I test drove a 997.1 GT3 but it didn't feel as raw or connected and not a fan of the gear change on the 997 GT3 which I found stiff and awkward.
Hello, I'm currently in the market to buy a 996 GT3. How much would you say your maintenance costs were? If there were any repairs needed to be made what are common issues you faced and how much was it?
@@truthcompels If you don't bring the car to an OPC the costs aren't that bad. These cars don't have many issues at all. The one big issue is that the car is 20 years old, hence all the rubber joints are also old and at some point will need replacement. If you plan on tracking the car the coolant pipes may need pinning, depending on your risk aversion.
Finally back my second GT3 996.2. First one sadly only survived four days before I lost it on a wet mountain pass. Have had GT3.2 plus RS.1 and .2 Neither came close to the 996. Compared to UK pricing, they’re a rediculous bargain in South Africa. Slowly disappearing from our roads to Australia and the United Kingdom who wisely are exploiting our disastrous exchange rates.
I haven't looked but I would imagine our prices in the states are among the highest. Although would be very little interest in a right hand drive car
@@wesleycarusos8225996 GT3s are for sale between 200 and 250K AUD. Still a bargain for you guys in the US
I love both gens but I think the 997.1 GT3 is the perfect medium between the old and the new. They don’t make cars like these anymore. A total connection to the road!!
996 GT3 for me!
Lovely spec for the 996 GT3. Its aged so well
Love the 996 GT3
Great video Lee, it’s not easy to put the performance and comparison between the cars into words but you do it really well.
Thank you Owen, that's very kind to say.
Greetings Lee. Always enjoy your content! A few errors I noticed in this video. The 997 GT3 is a narrow body, not a wide body. Only the GT3 RS was wide body. That fact is one of the features that makes the GTS so special; Porsche made very, very few 997 rear wheel drive wide bodies. Also, all 996 and 997 GT3 models have the famous Mezger engine, not the M97. It is perhaps the single greatest difference over the Carreras, which did utilize the IMS equipped M96 and M97 engines. Keep making great content, Thomas
Thanks! To be super clear - both Mezger engines in these cars are coded M96 and M97 respectively, though of course they are different to the wet sumped engines found in their Carrera counterparts. Thanks for the note on the widebody!
Surprising errors, really.
The Mezgers are also M96/M97 engines - M96. 7x and M97.7x.
Compared to the semi dry, ims engined M96/M97 which have a few different codes but for example M97.01 for the 3.8 997.1 Carrera S.
So 9 werks is 100% correct here.
Love the 996 as more Raw and racing character.
Really interesting comparison between both. Excellent video as always.
Nice analysis. Drive a 996 Cup and jump into any 996GT3 - especially the RS and the cars are essentially the same. Jump out of a 997 cup into any 997GT3 and there’s far more diluted DNA. The PASM ruins the 997 if you are looking for a pure driving tool. You cannot load the nose of a PASM car under a trail brake without fighting against the increase in shock as it senses the load. It makes for an unpredictable car at the limit. Regarding steering feel you mentioned. The 997.1 shares the same geometry as the 996RS which incorporates homologated chassis revisions which fed into the 996RSR race car. In essence it’s an improvement on the 996Gen1 and2 - so what you are feeling is the difference between the geo set up of both cars. I suspect the the 997 has a slightly softer set up. Bear in mind that these cars are fully adjustable and very sensitive to chassis adjustments so rarely do 2 cars drive in the same way as they are often tailored to individual driver requirements. Ultimately - as you say, if you want a no compromise driving tool the 996GT3 has no pier.
Again Lee, really enjoy your content, it is truly some of the best on UA-cam. Your strength lies in your access to important figures in the Porsche world, and your exceptional style in interviewing them. Perhaps you are even better than Harry Metcalfe and Henry Catchpole in that regard, and I think we all agree they are tremendous in this field. With that in mind, I would love to see you do a full interview with Rob Dickinson of Singer. I had the pleasure to meet and chat with him a few years back, before I had my channel. He is not only a very significant figure for all Porsche fans, but also a truly wonderful, kind and interesting man. A Lee Sibley interview with Rob would be outstanding. Hope to see this on your channel. Cheers!
I have owned 2x 997.1 GT3's 1 was a track car & the other was a road car, I found that on the road the 997.1 to stiff & clutch heavy to enjoy, on track the 997.1 GT3 is better for sure... I currently have a 996.1 GT3 CS & find it way more enjoyable on the road & for touring around than the 997.
Such an informative review, thank you! I appreciate the way you articulate the differences between the 996.2 and 997.1.
Another great comparison. Thanks for this
Great review Lee, once again. Both amazing vehicles and honestly when I comes to GT Porsches, I’d take either. One can’t go wrong.
Thanks Charlie, and agreed - you wouldn't be short changed with either.
For me the best gt3 is the 997 mk2.
Try one with 18 inch wheels. 😉
I’m not totally convinced that the Sport button alters the engine map.
I only can add that the 997 GT3 is a super fun car of very high quality. Get one if you can.
Just changes the throttle map, not the engine map.
On the Collecting Addicts podcast dated 29/07, there was a discussion on steering feel, and Chris Harris stated that the 996.2 (all variants) had the best power steering feel of any other car that he'd driven....
Interesting and concurs with my experience having owned 996.2 C2 manual, and now own 997.1 C2 manual, I've often said the steering in the 996 is more connected and revealing than that in the 997. However overall I prefer the newer car.
Trouble is "Chris Harris" is a Major prick!😀
Nice informative video, and a shot out to the new owner of the 997.1! Thanks for letting Lee drive it and have us enjoy the fruit of his labor.
Dear Lee, excellent video thank you. I have owned several 911 from air cool 3.0 to 991.1 . However after owning 981 gt4 , I came to understand what it is about GT cars. I considering a 997.1 gt3 . Question, what is your advice on this? Appreciate your reply.
PS: i saw your video on GT4 vs Carrera T.
The spot bottom in the 997.1 GT3 doesn't change the throttel body reaction. That is only the case in the Carrera, On the GT3 the sport bottom only controls the exhaust flap system.
Brake disc on the 997.1 is also 350mm, the 380mm disc came on the 997 Mk II . The 997.1 also has the front of the C4 but not the whide body, that only had the RS.
Love it this is why this is my favorite Porsche Channel. You're the best!
Thanks for the kind words, I highly appreciate them!
Great video Lee, 996.2 ❤ also looks like you enjoyed my local roads as much as I do too 😉🤣🍳🍳🦆
Cheers John! Glad you recognise the roads, my friend!
Why does a GT3 need a “sport” button? 😂
I love 996.1 GT3
Having had both the 996 for 5 years and 997 for 6, each has its charms. The rawness of the 996.2 is amazing on the track and its one of the best driving experiences you can get, however it’s seriously compromised on the road. I did 200 miles in it one evening over a variety of road types and felt exhausted getting out of it. The car is track focused and feels great on one or on a very well surfaced road but you spend a lot of your time on high alert which is great for a short spin but it soon becomes tiresome.
The 997 is progression be it incremental, but I’d describe it as being able to drink a coffee with one hand on the wheel of 997 whereas you have both on the wheel of the 996 for fear of it putting you in the ditch. This might not be important to some people as they do little mileage in them but if you use the car a bit for longer trips the 997 is a better all rounder.
Interesting. I think a lot of it is due to setup.
I’ve done some 500 mile days in my 996.2 and some 12 hour days and whilst it’s no limo re sound levels and tyre noise, I was far from exhausted.
I do think the 997 would do the motorway stuff better but come the mountain roads I’d want to be in the ‘6.
Between me and my friends we’ve had almost every iteration of GT3. We kind of concluded the 997.1 was just a slightly faster, wider 996, which wasn’t worth the jump in cost back then. Now though I’d definitely consider a ‘7 especially for road trips and given they’re a lot closer in price.
Funnily enough I thought I did the wrong thing initially by going from the 996. As Lee says there’s a weight to the steering that the 997 lacks.
You’re dead right, set up is very important on any Porsche, it’s the difference between a good drive and a bad one. Mine had the factory Geo done and it did have all new oem Bilstein dampeners that the previous owner had fitted(crazy considering he could have had them refurbished back at Bilstein like I did a few years later). In 5 years the car had 20k miles put on it so it was used, I just found that on a slightly bumpy road the car would hop a little on turn in due to its stiffness, I’ve a 996 C4s still and in fairness with the softer suspension and 4wd you can enter the same bends much faster without washing out, the 997 doesn’t suffer in the same way. Again both are super machines, it’s really down to personal preference, I’d love to have one of each, it’s like choosing a favourite child😊
@@shanemurtagh1265
Your 997 sounds like it came from a great home. That’s the kind of seller you want to buy from, the type who will happily throw loads of a parts at it.
But yeah you could get the Bilsteins rebuilt for £85+vat per corner back in the day when I had my 996.1 CS.
You have a 996 C4S as well? Nice. If I ever get rid of my 996.2 GT3 I’ll probably get a C4S. Great road car which is all I use my cars as and one of the best looking 911 rear ends ever. And how good do they sound with PSE?! 😎
Enjoy the cars. 👍🏻
If you value the drive over posturing , you buy the 996
997 GT3 all the way please.
WOW GOOD SHOW !
996 GT3 feels more ballet shoe when compared to a 997 GT3 sneaker for me. 996 for road, 997 for track. For the same price as one of these currently, I have a 3.9 996 with similar dyno figures to the 996 GT3 (but no Mezger of course), an Elise S1 160, and an E92 M3.
Wow. What a video. Thanks so much to both the owners, such cool people. I think I’d just go for the 997 as I do more motorway miles. It’s a coin toss though. Something about the 996 feels special.
Thank you!
I would really love to know exactly what changes were made to the steering/suspension on the 997 that resulted in the reduced steering feedback. I know they introduced a variable ratio rack but I believe that just quickened the steering away from centre, it used the same ratio as the 996 on centre so that shouldn't have reduced the wriggle of the wheel. If the damping was also the same, as you suggest, that only seems to leave geometry settings. Is there any way you could find out from Porsche?
@@pjay3028different suspension pick up points in the 997 GT3 is part of it I believe.
The 997 is a superior car but I’d still prefer the 996😊
Love the 997 but my pockets settled for a 996. 🤷🏻♂️😆
996.2 Cab …. Lots of fun to drive & it is still a 911 to everyone but those caught up in the nonsense … I’ve gotten to like the 996.1 lights … these are great fun & the price until you get to repairs is great … and there will be repairs … just drive it , fix it , enjoy it!
997.1 for me
Same for me.
I would really love to know exactly what changes were made to the steering/suspension on the 997 that resulted in the reduced steering feedback. I know they introduced a variable ratio rack but I believe that just quickened the steering away from centre, it used the same ratio as the 996 on centre so that shouldn't have reduced the wriggle of the wheel. If the damping was also the same, as you suggest, that only seems to leave geometry settings. Is there any way you could find out from Porsche?
I'll have to ask and find out, Pjay!
@@9WERKSTV thanks, if you can find out I would love to know 👍
Drive the 997.2 GT3… it’s best of all worlds. I got rid of the 997.1 GT3… they sorted everything by the time they got to 997.2 GT3. PS - on 997.1/.2 GT3 … the Sport button doesn’t affect throttle response. If you wanna go back in progress to more 996 on a 997 - turn off your TC and put coil overs on.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for the kind gift, it is much appreciated.
Fab vid again Lee 🎉
Cheers Alex! Much appreciated mate!
Very interesting. Now... GT3... or Turbo? :D
still 996 mk1 with some work on it ^^
👍 the eternal debate continues 😂
Still miss my -02 (!) 996.2GT3CS. Anyone know how it could be an -02?
True facts, Porsche 996 ugly mistake by Porsche, 997 back to perfection from the perfected 993, coming from a true porsche fan who has driven daily Porsche for 30+ years, 924, 944 turbo, 968 Sport, 997 turbo. I think the people who do love 996 are still true great Porsche fans, however the 996 isn't a GT1 car. Sorry 9WERKS I know u love a 996, great content as per!
997.1 GT3 or 993.2 2S?
Lee by far one of the best content on UA-cam and great presentation as well - in addition to being a last of the G body 3.2 ROW Carrera enthusiast I’m also a very proud owner of a 996.2 C4 Cabriolet to commemorate the first of water cooled, next evolution 911 - so really appreciate your perspective
997 anytime. Can’t understand why they are even closely priced similarly.
If the clutch goes heavy, it‘s toast. Need‘s to be replaced..
I had brand new oe clutch flywheel diff and gearbox fitted to my 997.1 gt3 and it's still the heaviest clutch pedal I've owned. It makes all other clutch pedals feel flimsy and toylike to the extent they leave me wondering how much longer they'll survive under foot!
The cars clutches are pretty much identical. It’s heavy ish on both, if it’s heavier it’s on the way out.
Not really. The 997.1 clutch is heavier than the 996.
Nope. Just had my gearbox rebuilt and clutch was as new, went back in. There is no assisted clutch on these cars like the regular carerras/turbos etc
There is no contest here, 997.1 is the one
Because you only consider aesthetics
@@avinii How did you come up with that conclusion? I don't care how they look like, I was only talking from performance point as I've owned one and driven another but whatever floats your boat.
My well cared for 997 GT3 couldn't overtake my 996.2 on the highway. 997 GT3 is super overated. 997 GT3 also has a sunroof, lol
997 any day. The 996’s cheap interior and fugly styling is a non-starter for me. I’ve owned a C4S 996 and it drove amazingly, but I never looked back at it, and I’ve never given it a second thought now that it’s gone.
Yep you can either live with it or you can’t. I don’t think the interior argument stands up though. That silver trim in the 997 is looking very cheap and dated. Neither are exactly contemporary. 😉
@@marky9117agreed that’s why I settled on a 993 C4. Dated, but in a good way
Yeah if you’re evaluating this based on aesthetics it’s pretty inconsistent with the basic GT3 purpose. Put another way, there are a lot of really pretty 997 cabs with comfy seats and coupes with pdk’s and the same sunroof as the 997.1 GT3 if sheer aesthetic beauty is the paramount/determinant characteristic. I think the 997 has better cup holders too….
Too funny. I also owned a 996 C4S which was a fun car, easy to drive and pretty bullet proof regarding handling issues. But a little boring. Then I bought a new 997.1, GT3. The clutch is stiff, but everything else is magical. The steering fabulous feedback, the shifter is close to perfect, and the car is utterly predictable if you know how to drive it. 16 years later, I don’t want another GT3’s than this.
I loved how planted the 996 C4S was but always felt I was pedal to the floor to try and have fun. I then got a 996tt which I can tell might want to kill me if I don’t respect it (or it’s turbo lag on windy b-roads).
The correct answer, is which one you can buy!
Because they are both mega!
Edit: also, what? We have a 997.1 Gt3 and I didnt know that it has a change up indicator…
I got to rev it out more 🤣
Hahahaha, well now you know! Enjoy that super GT3!
@@9WERKSTV My daily is a 997.1 C4S so when I get into the GT3, I always shift when my ears tell me to...which is about 1.2k RPM from red line! :(
997 for me. I can't get past the design of the 996 buckets, they look dreadful in my opinion. Worse looking seat they have made.
I just went to carbon bucket (Carrera GT) and much prefer my older 996 RS Recaro buckets as the padding is much thinner and give way more feel thru the seat the newer ones have too much padding
purely on looks, the 997 wins every time, when it comes to the drive, they are both as bad as each other.