As someone who is usually ballin on a budget, just wanted to say I appreciated your final thoughts on this one. Let's normalize a "wait and see" approach on more games, we don't have to buy every game right as it comes out!
Personally, I much prefer the old cover art. Very 1950's western. John Wayne-esc. Other than the dual layered board, the changes sound largely cosmetic. Appreciate the review!
I understand the appeal of the sepia tone on the first box but it bewilders me that people can stand the creepy cgi faces of the original. It put me off the game entirely for years.
Totally agree that they should have released a "Big Box" or "Deluxe" version of the game with Rails to the North already in to box. The dual layer looks great though and is super tempting to go ahead and buy it (since it is an amazing game!!!!!)
The great thing about the new edition being announced is that it's easy to find bgg trades for the original version now, which is what I did. I Love this game! The cover doesn't bother me, nor does it affect gameplay whatsoever. I am jealous of the dual layer board and the sweet new cowboy meeples, but I'll get over it. Great comparison video!
great comparison! my completionist tells me to get the new version (I am an owner of the first edition and its expansion which I both love!), but as you said: they missed out on making a big box including rails to the north. :( so, I'm going to wait.. is there a way to get the solo mode (haven't checked) of the new version, like print out cards or something?
As a New Zealander, I am probably just going to wait until the NZ edition comes out (if it gets good reviews). I'm intrigued as to what they will do with that theme. I have never played Great Western Trail (or any other Pfister game besides Isle of Skye) so still not sure if it is a game for me. The close-to-home theme might help it across the line to enter my collection :)
Respect. Yeah a lot of folks weren’t a fan of the board as much this time around. It didn’t bother me but can understand the criticism saying the pathways aren’t as clear this time
6:15 Hahaha!!! I just showed that to my wife to get her opinion on the "inclusive" changes. She responded with "That's supposed to be a woman? It looks like a woman disguising herself as a man."
I am so interested in the Argentina version, I might hold off on purchasing any of them until then. This is one instance where maybe releasing some game details might help sales, since I know nothing of the next two but assume they are mostly the same (with different maps). Maybe I should buy both! But we don't know yet!
I think your advice is sound. Great Western Trails is in my top 10, so I'm thoroughly tempted to pick this up. I think I will wait until the others in the series are released.
If you don't already own it, pretty sure getting the new one is a no brainer. Since I already have the original and expansion I'm standing pat. May adopt a couple of the changes.
I was GWT all in early and if I made a top 10 list it would be on it. Bought acrylic overlays, Rails to the North, bought charms on Etsy to replace the trains and players, downloaded the Brisco solo on BBG. At this point I don’t see the 2nd edition adding enough to warrant what will be a $100 spend. If I buy the other 2 games I will probably make it a matching set.
I already sold my old copy w expansion in preparation for the 2nd Edition. I'm glad I didn't splurge on the player board overlays for my original game.
I wonder if the solo mode from this new edition is compatible with the old edition. I doubt plan b would do it, but I wonder if someone on like etsy could make an upgrade kit for the old edition which lets you play that young to old cattle variant.
I don’t remember off-hand but I think the Man Vs Meeple did a video and they might have gone over that. I don’t know how into fan-made variants you are but Mautoma created an awesome GWT automa
I am about to come across a grumpy old man but... First thing, I prefer the old art personally. It comes across as very serious and contemplative which reflects the style of gameplay. The new art seems very light and friendly, like "Evolution: Climate" or something which contradicts how the game plays. (Nothing against "Evolution: Climate. It's a fun game as well. My point is that it is "lighter" game than GWT.) I can't help but wonder how many people will buy it expecting a light and breezy more casual game, open up the instructions, and be completely overwhelmed. Second, I get representation being more welcoming to a general audience, focus groups, and all that. To me, personally? It comes across as rather condescending. That was not the reality at the time the game is set in and pretending that it was comes across as them thinking that people can not handle reality. Now, if they based it in an alternate universe or something then they could go nuts. Include whatever you want. Set in our universe with it's history though? No, that just seems silly and insultingly condescending to me. (Just my opinion). It's like when a company makes a big deal about how much they respect women (or whatever group) but then you later find out about all of their misdeeds against women (or another group) who they had previously spotlighted their so called "support of". Don't get me wrong. I am for treating people with respect (in general). However, I have seen those who preach the loudest about it being the most hypocritical about it so often that I immediately become suspicious of those who are going out of their way to show how much they do. Like they did in the redesign of this game.
My thing has always been if you want to make a historical game and be inclusive (which is great) then don't set it in a period of history where that isn't the case. Obviously GWT is already an established game so in this instance it does come off pretty poorly done and tacky but in general this has popped up a lot where historically themed games are being extremely historically inaccurate for the purpose of trying to be inclusive and everytime all I can think is please just change the theme so it works. You wanted a game set in a certain time period in history and for it to feel real world and now you've not done that just to be able to include everyone. I agree that it comes off as disingenuous. How about you do a more modern theme and include everyone and now we have a win win? We move away from the same old boring themes, we include people in a positive way that makes sense, we're accurate, and we no longer come off as doing it just to do it. Even if it's a dry euro I still want the theme to be accurately portrayed so I guess that's why I get frustrated with this as well but really I do want more games to include a wider variety of people/religions/etc so people can connect with the theme and game in a positive way (and also because we don't need games that portray terrible periods in a peoples lives) and modernizing themes just seems like a no brainer solution
As someone with the base+expansion, I would have loved to get the new cow variant but you know...I am now one of those old timers who should upgrade or die, too bad ;p They will probably add a little something to the reprint of the expansion as well.
I don’t have the first edition and was about to buy it when they announced the second edition. So I waited to see what the new edition has and I think that duel layer player boards make the decision a no-brainer for me. 2nd Edition!!
The cover put me off this game for years. Couldn't bear to have those creepy poorly rendered faces staring at me on my shelf. Definitely going to keep an eye out for this
We always try to add in as much b roll as possible but ultimately this channel is personality forward so you’re always gonna have to stare at our mugs to some point
yeah some others have said they preferred the old look a bit. I do wish the trail was slightly darker here but other than that I'm happy with the new look.
I got GWT, I traded it for Pandemic Iberia, I re-bought GWT, I found out about this new edition, So I traded my 2nd copy, Then I learn there’s it’s a 1.5, not a 2.0 😑
Love the dual layer. The rest, I could do without. The meeples just looks silly, and the changes to the workers seems like a diversity for the sake of diversity kind of thing.
@@Twineandribbon That is very true. I never stated that that my opinion should or did work for everyone. I specifically said that these were things that “I could do without”. The fact that you like the changes is great. There is an audience for this. It just isn’t me.
I think the 2e cover fits the theme of this game better even though the 1e box art is better western art. Dual layer boards always a plus. But some changes on the game board itself makes it slightly more difficult to see the paths. And changes for representation sake just ruins the authenticity of the original. So 2e is a wash.
I was hoping for more video of components of the games next to each other and discussions of the differences, instead of mostly video of you in front of the two covers talking.
ha couldn't disagree more but you may have gathered that from the video. I do think the paths on the board are harder to see now which is a shame but overall I love the color palette and style
Will stick with my original copy with all promos and expansions. Not keen on paying for a forced diversity update when there is nothing wrong at all with the first edition.
I just bought the original because it was on sale, although I would definitely prefer the new one at some point simply because they removed the stereotypical depiction of Native Americans as the "bad guys" and replaced them with bandits (I think). It doesn't bother me so much because I realize the designer most likely didn't knowingly depict them this way in bad faith, but I do know people who would refuse to play the game because of it. I think it's just as much a part of the evolution of board games as a solo mode or dual layered boards are.
Why do people think that the natives are portrayed as the bad guys, they are not the freaking bad guys, you trade with the natives, the less that has been traded with them, the higher the demand. Jesus Christ.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen - Native Americans were removed from the game for no good reason. - Graphics are worse on the main board. The only better art is the box cover. - Women and people of color were added because why not. Even if it historically doesn't make any sense. It's the Netflix sort of changes.
@@TheLuminousCleric Please try to learn what "censor" means. They used a new graphic design and art. And they want to sell the game to those "minorities" instead of just to whiners who cry when they se a non-white or non-male character.
I impulse bought the first edition when I heard the hype and because I was convinced that deckbuilding plus was the next big thing, without looking into the specific details of the rules and components. I dumped it as soon as I discovered that it was the classical white male fantasy West of early Hollywood which dipshit conservatives try to push as "historical," as if there were no women and POC in the US in the Nineteenth Century. Alexander Pfister is the most frustrating designer because his games are so good mechanically, but his themes are absolute dogshit borderline white supremacist garbage. I don't think it was intentional, as evidenced by his professed desire to change the themes of his most egregious games, but I'm not going to buy anything from him until it's perfectly clear that he's made legitimate progress on his educational journey learning about people and cultures beyond his hometown.
As someone who is usually ballin on a budget, just wanted to say I appreciated your final thoughts on this one. Let's normalize a "wait and see" approach on more games, we don't have to buy every game right as it comes out!
Personally, I much prefer the old cover art. Very 1950's western. John Wayne-esc. Other than the dual layered board, the changes sound largely cosmetic. Appreciate the review!
I understand the appeal of the sepia tone on the first box but it bewilders me that people can stand the creepy cgi faces of the original. It put me off the game entirely for years.
@@Twineandribbon I could see that. Different courses for different horses I suppose
Totally agree that they should have released a "Big Box" or "Deluxe" version of the game with Rails to the North already in to box. The dual layer looks great though and is super tempting to go ahead and buy it (since it is an amazing game!!!!!)
How complicated is it? Are there lots of rules? How would you rate it's complexity vs lewis & Clark?
The great thing about the new edition being announced is that it's easy to find bgg trades for the original version now, which is what I did. I Love this game! The cover doesn't bother me, nor does it affect gameplay whatsoever. I am jealous of the dual layer board and the sweet new cowboy meeples, but I'll get over it. Great comparison video!
Hello! Did you end up making the solo review video? Love to hear your thoughts on it even if you haven't. Thanks!!
Howdy! We haven’t just yet but we are actually going to do a full solo play through of the game hopefully within the next month so stay tuned!
great comparison! my completionist tells me to get the new version (I am an owner of the first edition and its expansion which I both love!), but as you said: they missed out on making a big box including rails to the north. :( so, I'm going to wait.. is there a way to get the solo mode (haven't checked) of the new version, like print out cards or something?
As a New Zealander, I am probably just going to wait until the NZ edition comes out (if it gets good reviews). I'm intrigued as to what they will do with that theme. I have never played Great Western Trail (or any other Pfister game besides Isle of Skye) so still not sure if it is a game for me. The close-to-home theme might help it across the line to enter my collection :)
Perks of new edition:
Better cover art. Double layered player board.
Perks of old edition:
Everything else imo - including the art on the board.
Respect. Yeah a lot of folks weren’t a fan of the board as much this time around. It didn’t bother me but can understand the criticism saying the pathways aren’t as clear this time
You should actually show more of the differences with the board game. Maybe a side by side comparison. 80% of the video im staring at you.
As a burgeoning game maker, I love your videos since they make me take a look at my games through a more critical eye.
6:15
Hahaha!!!
I just showed that to my wife to get her opinion on the "inclusive" changes.
She responded with "That's supposed to be a woman? It looks like a woman disguising herself as a man."
Did you just assume they's gender?!
I am so interested in the Argentina version, I might hold off on purchasing any of them until then. This is one instance where maybe releasing some game details might help sales, since I know nothing of the next two but assume they are mostly the same (with different maps). Maybe I should buy both! But we don't know yet!
Take my money! It is my number 1 game and I will make the expansion work with this version. Probably. Cant wait. Essen baby!
Always had GWT on my wishlist.
Rare case of waiting paid off! Now I can have a new edition and looks like a trilogy is set.
Excellent!
I think your advice is sound. Great Western Trails is in my top 10, so I'm thoroughly tempted to pick this up. I think I will wait until the others in the series are released.
I'm sold. I've hesitated on this for years. I'm in.
If you don't already own it, pretty sure getting the new one is a no brainer. Since I already have the original and expansion I'm standing pat. May adopt a couple of the changes.
I was GWT all in early and if I made a top 10 list it would be on it. Bought acrylic overlays, Rails to the North, bought charms on Etsy to replace the trains and players, downloaded the Brisco solo on BBG. At this point I don’t see the 2nd edition adding enough to warrant what will be a $100 spend. If I buy the other 2 games I will probably make it a matching set.
With the Brisco cards. Did you print them yourself or have them printed?
So because you've spent $100 on "upgrades" the second edition doesn't add enough? Yeah that makes sense, for you.
I already sold my old copy w expansion in preparation for the 2nd Edition. I'm glad I didn't splurge on the player board overlays for my original game.
I wonder if the solo mode from this new edition is compatible with the old edition. I doubt plan b would do it, but I wonder if someone on like etsy could make an upgrade kit for the old edition which lets you play that young to old cattle variant.
I don’t remember off-hand but I think the Man Vs Meeple did a video and they might have gone over that. I don’t know how into fan-made variants you are but Mautoma created an awesome GWT automa
@@lawofgravity1979 thank you for the info! I will go check both of those out
Can you use the 1st edition expansion with the 2nd edition there are no changes to the mechanics or map size so i think one can combine those 2?
Apparently the expansion board does not align properly with the graphical design on the new board.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen Coincidence? Don't think so
I am about to come across a grumpy old man but...
First thing, I prefer the old art personally.
It comes across as very serious and contemplative which reflects the style of gameplay. The new art seems very light and friendly, like "Evolution: Climate" or something which contradicts how the game plays. (Nothing against "Evolution: Climate. It's a fun game as well. My point is that it is "lighter" game than GWT.)
I can't help but wonder how many people will buy it expecting a light and breezy more casual game, open up the instructions, and be completely overwhelmed.
Second, I get representation being more welcoming to a general audience, focus groups, and all that. To me, personally? It comes across as rather condescending. That was not the reality at the time the game is set in and pretending that it was comes across as them thinking that people can not handle reality.
Now, if they based it in an alternate universe or something then they could go nuts. Include whatever you want.
Set in our universe with it's history though? No, that just seems silly and insultingly condescending to me. (Just my opinion).
It's like when a company makes a big deal about how much they respect women (or whatever group) but then you later find out about all of their misdeeds against women (or another group) who they had previously spotlighted their so called "support of".
Don't get me wrong. I am for treating people with respect (in general). However, I have seen those who preach the loudest about it being the most hypocritical about it so often that I immediately become suspicious of those who are going out of their way to show how much they do. Like they did in the redesign of this game.
My thing has always been if you want to make a historical game and be inclusive (which is great) then don't set it in a period of history where that isn't the case. Obviously GWT is already an established game so in this instance it does come off pretty poorly done and tacky but in general this has popped up a lot where historically themed games are being extremely historically inaccurate for the purpose of trying to be inclusive and everytime all I can think is please just change the theme so it works. You wanted a game set in a certain time period in history and for it to feel real world and now you've not done that just to be able to include everyone. I agree that it comes off as disingenuous. How about you do a more modern theme and include everyone and now we have a win win? We move away from the same old boring themes, we include people in a positive way that makes sense, we're accurate, and we no longer come off as doing it just to do it. Even if it's a dry euro I still want the theme to be accurately portrayed so I guess that's why I get frustrated with this as well but really I do want more games to include a wider variety of people/religions/etc so people can connect with the theme and game in a positive way (and also because we don't need games that portray terrible periods in a peoples lives) and modernizing themes just seems like a no brainer solution
@@cartergreen2309
Yeah, agreed.
As someone with the base+expansion, I would have loved to get the new cow variant but you know...I am now one of those old timers who should upgrade or die, too bad ;p They will probably add a little something to the reprint of the expansion as well.
I remember hearing that the New Zealand edition is going to have sheep instead of cattle. Was that debunked or just speculation?
I don’t have the first edition and was about to buy it when they announced the second edition. So I waited to see what the new edition has and I think that duel layer player boards make the decision a no-brainer for me. 2nd Edition!!
I just picked up the original used off Facebook marketplace for $20. Yeah, I'd love the double layer player boards, but $20? Easy choice there.
Oooh dang yeah that price is way too good to pass up haha
what happened to the Chinese guys. The actually built the railroad it was historically accurate.
The cover put me off this game for years. Couldn't bear to have those creepy poorly rendered faces staring at me on my shelf. Definitely going to keep an eye out for this
Please consider next time doing a voice-over and just showing the component differences on camera.
We always try to add in as much b roll as possible but ultimately this channel is personality forward so you’re always gonna have to stare at our mugs to some point
You know .. I think Jack Black is a missing Murph Brother. There's defiinitely a resemblance there ... ; )
Lol Redrock and Sedona are both in Arizona
Prefer the old cosmetic style to be honest. Might just use the old art stuff and implement the new rules, which are better.
yeah some others have said they preferred the old look a bit. I do wish the trail was slightly darker here but other than that I'm happy with the new look.
2nd edition is really streamlined. 1st edition would feel clunky AF to play it now.
facts
I got GWT,
I traded it for Pandemic Iberia,
I re-bought GWT,
I found out about this new edition,
So I traded my 2nd copy,
Then I learn there’s it’s a 1.5, not a 2.0 😑
Yeah, but if you wait for the Argentina and New Zealand (sheep!) versions, they will probably be different enough to count as proper sequels.
This makes me sad that I still have the original unplayed and wrapped. :(
I feel your pain. I got games like that too.
I still haven't opened gloomhaven. Had it for years already.
Love the dual layer. The rest, I could do without. The meeples just looks silly, and the changes to the workers seems like a diversity for the sake of diversity kind of thing.
I fail to understand how diversity for the sake of diversity is a bad thing?
@@domedagskattenWhen it is done in this manner it looks and feels disingenuous.
@@vince8155 because you're blind to the advantages of representation doesn't mean it doesn't matter to other people.
@@Twineandribbon That is very true. I never stated that that my opinion should or did work for everyone. I specifically said that these were things that “I could do without”.
The fact that you like the changes is great. There is an audience for this. It just isn’t me.
@@vince8155 I really don't agree that it seems disingenuous. Why would you think that?
I think the 2e cover fits the theme of this game better even though the 1e box art is better western art. Dual layer boards always a plus. But some changes on the game board itself makes it slightly more difficult to see the paths. And changes for representation sake just ruins the authenticity of the original.
So 2e is a wash.
Can anyone speak to any official or fan made quality solo play?
The Brisco fan-made solo on BBG is easy to use and is very good.
Already own the base and the expansion. Pass. Rather see some reprints of older classics out of print.
I was hoping for more video of components of the games next to each other and discussions of the differences, instead of mostly video of you in front of the two covers talking.
Don't have a problem with the original artwork. There is way worse.
ha couldn't disagree more but you may have gathered that from the video. I do think the paths on the board are harder to see now which is a shame but overall I love the color palette and style
Will stick with my original copy with all promos and expansions. Not keen on paying for a forced diversity update when there is nothing wrong at all with the first edition.
Nothing is wrong with the first edition. Buncha whiny babies.
Okee doke
@@TheBrothersMurph okalee dokalee
I just bought the original because it was on sale, although I would definitely prefer the new one at some point simply because they removed the stereotypical depiction of Native Americans as the "bad guys" and replaced them with bandits (I think). It doesn't bother me so much because I realize the designer most likely didn't knowingly depict them this way in bad faith, but I do know people who would refuse to play the game because of it. I think it's just as much a part of the evolution of board games as a solo mode or dual layered boards are.
Why do people think that the natives are portrayed as the bad guys, they are not the freaking bad guys, you trade with the natives, the less that has been traded with them, the higher the demand. Jesus Christ.
@@morecoffee998 Because they are ideologues, know nothing of history, and love to virtue signal.
They ruined the game.
OK boomer.
(Meaning: You probably want to expand on in what way they "ruined the game")
@@TorIverWilhelmsen - Native Americans were removed from the game for no good reason.
- Graphics are worse on the main board. The only better art is the box cover.
- Women and people of color were added because why not. Even if it historically doesn't make any sense.
It's the Netflix sort of changes.
@@TheLuminousCleric So basically your main criticism is that is offends conservatives?
@@TorIverWilhelmsen more like they censored the game to cater to a minority.
@@TheLuminousCleric Please try to learn what "censor" means. They used a new graphic design and art. And they want to sell the game to those "minorities" instead of just to whiners who cry when they se a non-white or non-male character.
Woke edition. Will pass
or, like, more inclusive edition, more welcoming edition but you do you
I impulse bought the first edition when I heard the hype and because I was convinced that deckbuilding plus was the next big thing, without looking into the specific details of the rules and components. I dumped it as soon as I discovered that it was the classical white male fantasy West of early Hollywood which dipshit conservatives try to push as "historical," as if there were no women and POC in the US in the Nineteenth Century. Alexander Pfister is the most frustrating designer because his games are so good mechanically, but his themes are absolute dogshit borderline white supremacist garbage. I don't think it was intentional, as evidenced by his professed desire to change the themes of his most egregious games, but I'm not going to buy anything from him until it's perfectly clear that he's made legitimate progress on his educational journey learning about people and cultures beyond his hometown.