I am planning to get all 3 games in the GWT set even though I have the original game (and it’s one of my favorites). The new artwork is awesome, the new gameplay modes, the new components … very excited!
And I should add that I upgraded the original game with bags for the tiles, player board acrylic overlays, and metal coins. Still getting this new version. 😊
I'm in the exact same boat as @@ian_forbes - have everything upgraded for the first edition, but will still be buying the second edition as soon as I can. GWT was my favorite game for the longest time (recently it's been overtaken by Arkwright, 18XX, and a couple of Lacerda's but it's still definitely top 10 for me). I certainly don't need the second edition, but I definitely do want it. I do really like the addition of the exchange tokens (the only good thing from Rails to the North) and the change in how many coins you get from delivering to KC.
Removal of the native Americans just feels like erasure of racial minorities to me. It wasn't offensive unless you take offense to the inclusion of any historically oppressed group in a game depicting the historical period in which they existed. In the original game, the cowboys were only trading with the natives. Sure, you could say the relationship with the natives wasn't that amicable in the real world, but the same could be said of the black cowboy meeples. I've seen this same nonsense said about games depicting the Incans, Mayans, or Aztecs, and as a Mexican, it actually is super cool to see these groups represented in themes. It's very depressing that the only time a lot of board gamers seem to want minorities represented is in sci-fi, fantasy, and modern themes. We were a part of history too.
The teepees in the 1st edition were a really bad way of representation of the natives. Just from a gameplay perspective those teepee tiles (just like the hazards) were obstacles to the route and you got rewarded for removing them. Sure it's called trading with the natives but that is not only romanticizing the action, it's also pretty accurate to what happened between the native american and the settlers. The settlers were trading with them for their own benefits and to expel the natives from their land. So in fact when you played the 1st edition, you were kind of erasing the natives each and every game and you got rewarded for it. Eventhough the 2nd edition is missing out on representation of the natives, at least there is no representation that is so easy to be misunderstood. The outlaws fit the theme very well and are better suited for the role in the gameplay (bad tiles that increase the costs when passing and you get rewarded for removing them).
As a Native American, i feel like any representation of my people has been completely erased from the 2nd edition. If any person were reading any bad representation of native peoples into the game, that's on you! I also wonder how many native people have been offended by the teepee icons in the game. I suspect most of the squeaky wheels are not.
@@hitman3005 It doesn't matter if the people being represented is offended. Someone will always be offended FOR you, whether ya want it or not. Else, we wont have this problem.
I think it's important to provide a bit of context here. The game in no way enabled or encouraged any sort of hostility towards Native Americans. It seems that many people unfamiliar with the game make the assumption that because there are(were) Native Americans in the game that the mechanic must be racist or problematic. This is depsite the rules explicitly saying that you are in fact trading with them. I am surprised that these same people seem to be satisfied with completely removing the natives from the game and replacing them with an all white cast of bandits. Couldn't these same people start accusing the designer of "white washing" history? With that being said thematically speaking what exactly is the action relating to the bandits suppose to be now? I assume you aren't trading with them so.... are we killing them and collecting a bounty? I would rather be trading with Native Americans if that is the case....
@@WatchItPlayed you mention GWT 2Ed in a video from 2019? This I gotta see… *goes away and skims video* Hm, I guess that makes sense. Rodney probably has that ready to go all the time.
@@WatchItPlayed I also watched this. And in it you also mentioned a Wikipedia page where you have a list of all games that you have made a tutorial for. But the page does not seem to exist on Wikipedia. Has it been removed?
Not gonna lie, there are more changes than I imagined, though a couple were obviously coming - the nerf to the KC delivery strat and the Tepee section overhaul. Not keen on a new purchase of a game that is already very good, though. I think I might "patch" my first edition with just those 2 changes (and maybe add the exchange tokens) and call it a day.
We were surprised the Rails to the North expansion wasn't included in this game. You could totally just patch your 1st edition with the KC 4-coins now.
Exact same. Bought the first edition a few months ago and my family for Christmas bought me the 2nd edition probably not knowing I already had it. I'd love to have some of the tweeks from the 2nd edition but keep all the art style from the 1st. Now I'm wondering of I can frankenstein the two editions together somehow... maybe I'm just crazy for caring that much about the art but it does make a difference to me...
Looks nice, but will hang on to 1st edition and Rail expansion, and wait for the Argentina and NZ editions. I like the addition of the exchange tokens to the base game
It seems that you've missed the location change of the "D" neutral building making the Outlaws-path more relevant. Also, I've heard about some small balance changes to the old buildings.
As already said: the exchange tokens are familiar if you've played or own the Rails to the North expansion. Same for some of the new Station Master tiles. I've played GWT 52 times until now, of which 11 times solo. The solo mode is available as PnP for some years from the files section on BGG. Great review. I like the design of the new cow cards. I dislike the art of the game board, the exchange of "trading with Native Amaricans" for "killing outlaws and get rewarded", for whatever reason they did the exchange.
I'm looking forward to the Argentina version! They have a big cowboy (gaucho) culture, and it'd be cool to have a game with the theme of a country I studied abroad in! I wonder how different it's going to be...
The old artwork is so much better than this generic looking replacement. Very sad. I like the bag idea, and possibly the slight rebalancing but the board and cow cards have now lost all their character for me.
I know right. Seems like such a silly change and also bothers me and I'm not Native American. Loses a lot of history and theme to me by doing this as well.
Lol, Naveen’s “Mt Rushmore of angry men” was gold! That cover is hideous. I never got why my brother first bought that game when I saw the cover. Then I played it and it’s amazing, and of course I eventually made my way to BGG and saw its ranking. But man, that cover...
Hmm, i wasn't aware there were people that felt so strongly about the cover. Never bothered me one bit, though it certainly isn't the most enticing, i'll give you that. Then again, i don't think the second one isn't much of an improvement for me in that department.
@@spacemonkeyentertainment6413 I think it’s an improvement I think. It doesn’t make the setting or gameplay clear or enticing, but it’s prettier for sure.
@@shinjial Yeah, i can totally see that. Can't argue with taste anyway. I'm just saying that either cover wouldn't win prizes from me and if i went by the cover of games, i'd be playing a lot of other games before i even touched GWT, no matter which version. They just don't have that "wow"-factor that something like Everdell has for example, where players are in already before i even unpack the game - Totally biased opinion though, because i am a sucker for cutesy artwork with at least somewhat deep gameplay, so GWT kinda loses by default, i guess ^^.
@@spacemonkeyentertainment6413 Agreed on Everdell - games covers that can bottle that in are already further ahead. The 2nd edition cover of GWT combined with the name might get some console gamers, though. In a “is that RDR in a box” way.
Big fan of the original game, but the original artwork wasn’t my cup of tea…especially that cover… That said, although I appreciate the improved artwork (especially, the cows), I am not onboard with the teepees to outlaws change. Native Americans were very much an integral part of The Old West, the good and the bad. Pfister’s original game did a good job of portraying of encountering Native Americans in the Old West and there was no need to remove them from the game. Instead, the designers were more focused on trying to please a specific crowd with the diversity changes… Sorry, but those changes did not exist in The Old West in the way they are depicted in this game compared to the first edition. If the designers were overly concerned about offending certain groups , then they should have just re-themed the game altogether instead of trying to rewrite history. Other than that, I love the new player boards, components (I actually like the hats ;) ) and most of the new artwork.
Small addition to why the trains now go East, it’s not only to be geographically correct (left to right, west to east), but to be historically correct. The cattle that was delivered in Kansas City was mostly meant for the large urban areas in the east (Chicago, New York), as they where much bigger (more customers!) than the cities in the west that were only just beginning to expand. Sincerely yours, a history nerd 🤓
Yeah, I had only seen the 2nd edition prior to watching this video and the play through of their 1st edition game… and I was so thrown off that they would deliver cattle to Topeka or Wichita. I was like, those places are on the cowboys’ way TO Kansas City, why would they then send them on a train to it? I don’t consider myself a history nerd, but I did grow up in the Kansas City area and have been to the Kansas City Royal museum, so I guess that’s why I know that? But also, doesn’t everyone know why they call cowboy films WESTERNS? Because they are wrangling cows in the west… and then getting them to the Midwest to feed people in the bigger cities (which were mostly in the EAST). Granted, Wichita is much more south than west from KC, but the large hub for Oklahomans (and Texans, too, I would think) was KC.
I suspect they changed the aesthetic design of the box cover, board and cards to a more generic look in order to have a cohesive design across all 3 games but, I much prefer the look of the old cover, cards and board. The player boards are an unequivocal improvement though.
I would have really like the second edition including the expansion in some way. It's a bit of a tough purchase to make if you already own the original + expansion for a couple of tweaks, some of which you can even implement in your old version. I'm really waiting for the other two Great Western Trails releases to switch things up.
Thank you for doing this. Very informative and really helped me on which edition I want to collect. My decision is now to get the first edition. While I like the solo mode and gameplay variant I’m not a fan of removing the Indians and teepees and the attempt to make the characters more “inclusive”. My wife pointed out if they are trying to be more accurate changing San Francisco to New York how is it more accurate removing the Indians and making everything “inclusive” or “diversive”?
@@grog3514 Similar yet different lol (I know super unhelpful). They both feature a rondel system where you are taking actions along the way around the board (hence the similarity). If it's game night and we can only play 1 game between the 2, We both would be picking Maracaibo.
Going the route of Five Tribes, changing the teepees, is political correctness going mad. The sanitisation of history, no matter the tenuous link, is a huge thumbs down. “Meh.” Oh, congratulations on getting to 28k. Brilliant stuff!
I really wanted to get this edition but not sure I agree with erasing Native American's representation on the game board. Other than that, everything looks good. Might just get the new version and print out my own teepees to leave the stronger theme there rather than the lazy "outlaw area"
I never got the first game due to lack of players and solo mode, so the second edition is very appealing in that regard. The idea that the AI's strategy can dynamically change is very appealing, and rare to find in most other solo mode games.
Hi there, we unfortunately have no experience with the solo experience. Have you tried looking through the BGG forums to see what other have said about the solo experience?
Love the game, but I'm OK with the first edition, playing this solo most of the time, some clever BGG'ers have made nice solo variants. You pronounced Simmental correct in English, in Swiss German or other languages it sounds different obviously.
I like how they addressed two of the major issues with the game. First being the kansas city reward of $6. This was too overpowered. Second being the heavy reliance on cowboys. The new cow and some of the building tiles and the station rewards help to allow non-cowboy players to have a chance to stay in the game if they are locked out of cowboys.
@@BeforeYouPlay dubbing it the Mt Rushmore of angry old men does actually make it more tolerable. Definitely getting the new version as I've never taken the plunge on GWT.
As an European I really can't see the "problem" in trading with the natives really.... The same with the diversity/representation in workers... For me It doesn't hurt the gameplay either way so... The new buildings seems quite bland though, there is less detail as the building seems smaller. Cgrats on a really nice review, happy to see that you are getting previews of hot commodities on the hobby.
The mount rushmore of angry men. LOL I honestly like the original better in pretty much every way except the it should have came with the double inlaid player boards. We usually accidentally bump the table at least once per game and it's annoying. I've got the expansion already and I think I'll just keep my first edition.
What bothers me about the update is the bizarre and intellectually dishonest take on the Indians being insensitive. The action within the game explicitly says trade and the Indians only become a costly road block to the player if they don't trade with them. Mechanically you are encouraged to trade with the Indians as a means of fostering a mutually beneficial relationship. If you don't, well you're punished for your use of their land without providing them the things they want in return. Hell, even the iconography displays the respectful and beneficial relationship between cowboy and indian! It is two hands coming together in unity. I keep hearing from white people how I as a native person need representation and yet when I am represented in a game it is taken away because some white people got offended. You can't win. This is all just a criticism of that one change and not you guys. You guys are great.
As always, another great video from you two! Was there any balance changes to any of the other buildings? I’ve heard that maybe a couple of those buildings have been tweaked and was hoping to see a photo of any possible changes. Keep up the great work!
Hi Jeremy (if that's your real name 😜), thank you so much for your request. We went ahead and posted in our "community tab" images with descriptions of the changes between the 2 editions. Sorry there is no way to link directly to that post, you'll have to do just a little bit of digging. Hope this helps!
FINALLY I understand this game! I’ve read the rules, watched two videos on how to play it, and two more playthroughs of it, but it was THIS video that did it. Thanks so much!
I've played GWT 350+ times and never have I felt that the gameplay needed tweaks. Did it need component upgrades? Absolutely, esp. that player board which I see they've made dual-layered. But the rest is completely unnecessary. I would have bought a component-upgraded second edition despite owning the first. Now, not so sure.
What is especially puzzling to me is the need to switch the colours of the craftsmen (builders) and the engineers. I'm so used to purple being an engineer and the yellow (?) being the craftsmen that I'm not sure if I'd be able to digest that change acceptably quickly.
I played the original game at 2 player count and liked it, but was disappointed there was no official solo mode included. The upgraded player boards, plus a solo mode, not to mentioning little cowboy hats!! This was a no brainier, plus it only cost £33!!!! Bargain!!!!, Great overview guys.
Is the expansion (Rails To The North) compatible with the new second edition base game? At the very least the art would be different right? I know you said they might release a new expansion for it. But has anyone out there actually tried combining the two (2nd edition base with old expansion) and did it work ok?
Seems like an improvement, with Argentina edition being better again. As much as I'm curious how the third will shape up I have to say as an Australian I am outraged that Pfister is creating part 3 on the islands of New Zealand instead of the sweeping outback of Australia. Cattle droving(which is slang, not a typo) is a bigger part of our history and has relevance today to a some extent. Given it's such an obvious fit I'm left baffled by the choice here and it seems like any roundel system in NZ is going to lack any sense of scale compared to The Great Western Trail the series is named after. That's my rant, just got my hopes up hearing there was a third edition I guess...
Bought the older edition a few months ago and haven't had much chance to play it. For Christmas my sweet family bought me the 2nd edition (probably not knowing I already had it). Honestly I like the art of the game board and cow cards of the original way way more than the new edition. Now I'm trying to figure out how to Frankenstein the two editions together mostly so I can use the original game board but with the 2nd editions upgrades and tweaks. Or should I just use the nice player aids from the 2nd edition and ignore the rest or just simply play the 2nd edition as is. Am I crazy for even caring that much or trying? Anybody else tried mixing the two?
Hi Monique and Naveen! Thanks for the playthrough, I think I will buy this one! Btw, have you seen the cooperative game Robin Hood and the Merry Men? I would love to see you do a playthrough of that one! :)
I've seen some comments suggesting it is hard to read the negative red numbers on the gold coins on the board, tiles, etc. From the video, it does appear the font has less of a white halo compared to the first edition. Did you all have any trouble with this?
Awesome coverage on the game. It was a favorite of mine and havent played it in a while. Played it last night and all the rules clicked for me again. Nice to see the second edition is actually really nice so i may consider upgrading
I played just once the old one and I was suprise I liked it a lot but personally for me it was very ugly to buy it, I think this has change my opinion.
I sure laughed at Naveens "happy child" smile looking at those small hats 😆 #newfavouritegamepiece But what happened to the calf cards? I'm sure there was some info released about calf cards... 🤔
It would have been nice for them to include expansion with this 2nd edition. Rails to the North is kind of a must-have expansion that works as a complement to the base game. Only maybe then they could have made more people interested in dumping the old copy.
Thanks for this. Been holding out since I heard of the new edition, however I’ve started seeing the older version start popping up everywhere again. I was thinking if there was a sale I may not be able to hold out! After seeing this, I think I will.
The solo version in the box seems like a professionally printed version of a BGG solo version. So if you are a PnP person, you can get something like it for the crafting price. Not sure if it's identical, but functionally looks very similar
Thanks for the video. I will buy this as I couldn't get the first edition and waiting for this since it has announced. Very good to see the differences. I hope the RTTN expansion also comes soon.
Thanks for this (another) great review ! Do you think that the +6 to +4 gold fix for Kansas City can be applied on the first edition or are the other tweaks also needed to balance this change ? Thanks again for your wonderful work !
Very nice review! I would be really happy if they could just sell the AI-deck as a separate component. Then the people that already own the game doesn't have to cough up the money for a whole new game, just for the solo mode AI deck...
It looks nice and a lot of those changes seem good and useful but without the expansion it seems like a downgrade and therefore there is no reason to upgrade for me.
Thanks for the comparison. Are the solo rules available to read? I'd like to get an idea of how the official solo mode compares to the fanmade ones that are currently available.
What are your thoughts on the new edition? Please let us know if you have any questions!
The artwork is way more beautiful in this edition, I would like to buy it, but I don't know if my gaming group will like this game, it is so heavy.
I love the look and plan to buy the game. One request if you have a wiener dog please make sure it makes an occasional appearance!
I am planning to get all 3 games in the GWT set even though I have the original game (and it’s one of my favorites). The new artwork is awesome, the new gameplay modes, the new components … very excited!
And I should add that I upgraded the original game with bags for the tiles, player board acrylic overlays, and metal coins. Still getting this new version. 😊
I'm in the exact same boat as @@ian_forbes - have everything upgraded for the first edition, but will still be buying the second edition as soon as I can. GWT was my favorite game for the longest time (recently it's been overtaken by Arkwright, 18XX, and a couple of Lacerda's but it's still definitely top 10 for me). I certainly don't need the second edition, but I definitely do want it. I do really like the addition of the exchange tokens (the only good thing from Rails to the North) and the change in how many coins you get from delivering to KC.
Removal of the native Americans just feels like erasure of racial minorities to me. It wasn't offensive unless you take offense to the inclusion of any historically oppressed group in a game depicting the historical period in which they existed.
In the original game, the cowboys were only trading with the natives. Sure, you could say the relationship with the natives wasn't that amicable in the real world, but the same could be said of the black cowboy meeples.
I've seen this same nonsense said about games depicting the Incans, Mayans, or Aztecs, and as a Mexican, it actually is super cool to see these groups represented in themes. It's very depressing that the only time a lot of board gamers seem to want minorities represented is in sci-fi, fantasy, and modern themes. We were a part of history too.
I agree.
Absolutely correct.
The teepees in the 1st edition were a really bad way of representation of the natives. Just from a gameplay perspective those teepee tiles (just like the hazards) were obstacles to the route and you got rewarded for removing them. Sure it's called trading with the natives but that is not only romanticizing the action, it's also pretty accurate to what happened between the native american and the settlers. The settlers were trading with them for their own benefits and to expel the natives from their land.
So in fact when you played the 1st edition, you were kind of erasing the natives each and every game and you got rewarded for it.
Eventhough the 2nd edition is missing out on representation of the natives, at least there is no representation that is so easy to be misunderstood. The outlaws fit the theme very well and are better suited for the role in the gameplay (bad tiles that increase the costs when passing and you get rewarded for removing them).
As a Native American, i feel like any representation of my people has been completely erased from the 2nd edition. If any person were reading any bad representation of native peoples into the game, that's on you!
I also wonder how many native people have been offended by the teepee icons in the game. I suspect most of the squeaky wheels are not.
@@hitman3005 It doesn't matter if the people being represented is offended. Someone will always be offended FOR you, whether ya want it or not.
Else, we wont have this problem.
I think it's important to provide a bit of context here. The game in no way enabled or encouraged any sort of hostility towards Native Americans. It seems that many people unfamiliar with the game make the assumption that because there are(were) Native Americans in the game that the mechanic must be racist or problematic. This is depsite the rules explicitly saying that you are in fact trading with them. I am surprised that these same people seem to be satisfied with completely removing the natives from the game and replacing them with an all white cast of bandits. Couldn't these same people start accusing the designer of "white washing" history?
With that being said thematically speaking what exactly is the action relating to the bandits suppose to be now? I assume you aren't trading with them so.... are we killing them and collecting a bounty? I would rather be trading with Native Americans if that is the case....
I was very keen to learn about this new edition, thanks for such a thorough overview! (Not sad for the Angry Mount Rushmore faces to be gone :) ).
Anything in the pipeline for this game on your channel?
@@13breno13 Thanks for the interest! I talk a bit about that here: ua-cam.com/video/EdtDuvIUa6A/v-deo.html&t=342
@@WatchItPlayed you mention GWT 2Ed in a video from 2019? This I gotta see…
*goes away and skims video*
Hm, I guess that makes sense. Rodney probably has that ready to go all the time.
@@WatchItPlayed I also watched this. And in it you also mentioned a Wikipedia page where you have a list of all games that you have made a tutorial for. But the page does not seem to exist on Wikipedia. Has it been removed?
@@JL-bt8sg Yes, it did get removed - sorry about that.
WHY ARE THE HATS THE LEAST LIKABLE THING ??? THEYRE THE BEST THING !!!!
I grew up on a Canadian farm that raised Simmental cattle (pronouced sim-men-tal).
Bring the Indians back they were the best part. I will now go and buy the first edition.
Not gonna lie, there are more changes than I imagined, though a couple were obviously coming - the nerf to the KC delivery strat and the Tepee section overhaul. Not keen on a new purchase of a game that is already very good, though. I think I might "patch" my first edition with just those 2 changes (and maybe add the exchange tokens) and call it a day.
This is kind of what I'm planning.
We were surprised the Rails to the North expansion wasn't included in this game. You could totally just patch your 1st edition with the KC 4-coins now.
I do like the new player boards. But I prefer the old graphics and main board.
Exact same. Bought the first edition a few months ago and my family for Christmas bought me the 2nd edition probably not knowing I already had it. I'd love to have some of the tweeks from the 2nd edition but keep all the art style from the 1st. Now I'm wondering of I can frankenstein the two editions together somehow... maybe I'm just crazy for caring that much about the art but it does make a difference to me...
Yeah I really love the arts and graphics of the old one but damn those players mats are so awesome!
Looks nice, but will hang on to 1st edition and Rail expansion, and wait for the Argentina and NZ editions. I like the addition of the exchange tokens to the base game
It seems that you've missed the location change of the "D" neutral building making the Outlaws-path more relevant.
Also, I've heard about some small balance changes to the old buildings.
As already said: the exchange tokens are familiar if you've played or own the Rails to the North expansion.
Same for some of the new Station Master tiles.
I've played GWT 52 times until now, of which 11 times solo. The solo mode is available as PnP for some years from the files section on BGG.
Great review.
I like the design of the new cow cards. I dislike the art of the game board, the exchange of "trading with Native Amaricans" for "killing outlaws and get rewarded", for whatever reason they did the exchange.
I'm looking forward to the Argentina version! They have a big cowboy (gaucho) culture, and it'd be cool to have a game with the theme of a country I studied abroad in! I wonder how different it's going to be...
The exchange tokens came from the "Rails to the North" expansion. By the way, I need the second edition LOL
Oh no way! We played the expansion just once several years ago. Thanks for the heads up!
A lot of the changes come from Rails to the North
The old artwork is so much better than this generic looking replacement. Very sad. I like the bag idea, and possibly the slight rebalancing but the board and cow cards have now lost all their character for me.
I'm half native American tribe Creek - I'm pretty saddened that they are choosing to remove us from the game :(
I know right. Seems like such a silly change and also bothers me and I'm not Native American. Loses a lot of history and theme to me by doing this as well.
Careful the w0ke grunts will get you and your family, such blasphemy. The wrath of Eric Lang and Matt Fantastic will destroy all sinners.🤣
Lol, Naveen’s “Mt Rushmore of angry men” was gold!
That cover is hideous. I never got why my brother first bought that game when I saw the cover. Then I played it and it’s amazing, and of course I eventually made my way to BGG and saw its ranking. But man, that cover...
Hmm, i wasn't aware there were people that felt so strongly about the cover. Never bothered me one bit, though it certainly isn't the most enticing, i'll give you that. Then again, i don't think the second one isn't much of an improvement for me in that department.
@@spacemonkeyentertainment6413 I think it’s an improvement I think. It doesn’t make the setting or gameplay clear or enticing, but it’s prettier for sure.
@@shinjial Yeah, i can totally see that. Can't argue with taste anyway. I'm just saying that either cover wouldn't win prizes from me and if i went by the cover of games, i'd be playing a lot of other games before i even touched GWT, no matter which version. They just don't have that "wow"-factor that something like Everdell has for example, where players are in already before i even unpack the game - Totally biased opinion though, because i am a sucker for cutesy artwork with at least somewhat deep gameplay, so GWT kinda loses by default, i guess ^^.
@@spacemonkeyentertainment6413 Agreed on Everdell - games covers that can bottle that in are already further ahead.
The 2nd edition cover of GWT combined with the name might get some console gamers, though. In a “is that RDR in a box” way.
Big fan of the original game, but the original artwork wasn’t my cup of tea…especially that cover…
That said, although I appreciate the improved artwork (especially, the cows), I am not onboard with the teepees to outlaws change. Native Americans were very much an integral part of The Old West, the good and the bad. Pfister’s original game did a good job of portraying of encountering Native Americans in the Old West and there was no need to remove them from the game.
Instead, the designers were more focused on trying to please a specific crowd with the diversity changes… Sorry, but those changes did not exist in The Old West in the way they are depicted in this game compared to the first edition. If the designers were overly concerned about offending certain groups , then they should have just re-themed the game altogether instead of trying to rewrite history.
Other than that, I love the new player boards, components (I actually like the hats ;) ) and most of the new artwork.
Small addition to why the trains now go East, it’s not only to be geographically correct (left to right, west to east), but to be historically correct. The cattle that was delivered in Kansas City was mostly meant for the large urban areas in the east (Chicago, New York), as they where much bigger (more customers!) than the cities in the west that were only just beginning to expand. Sincerely yours, a history nerd 🤓
Yeah, I had only seen the 2nd edition prior to watching this video and the play through of their 1st edition game… and I was so thrown off that they would deliver cattle to Topeka or Wichita. I was like, those places are on the cowboys’ way TO Kansas City, why would they then send them on a train to it? I don’t consider myself a history nerd, but I did grow up in the Kansas City area and have been to the Kansas City Royal museum, so I guess that’s why I know that? But also, doesn’t everyone know why they call cowboy films WESTERNS? Because they are wrangling cows in the west… and then getting them to the Midwest to feed people in the bigger cities (which were mostly in the EAST). Granted, Wichita is much more south than west from KC, but the large hub for Oklahomans (and Texans, too, I would think) was KC.
more political correct game now? Didnt like it, that the tipis are gone. Now, there are no more any indians in it? Isnt that discriminating?
Some are making that argument, others feel that removal of tepees potentially represents stealing of land and murder of the natives.
@@BeforeYouPlay its a historical thing. But delete native americans out of the game is more discrimating, than remembering
I suspect they changed the aesthetic design of the box cover, board and cards to a more generic look in order to have a cohesive design across all 3 games but, I much prefer the look of the old cover, cards and board. The player boards are an unequivocal improvement though.
I would have really like the second edition including the expansion in some way. It's a bit of a tough purchase to make if you already own the original + expansion for a couple of tweaks, some of which you can even implement in your old version.
I'm really waiting for the other two Great Western Trails releases to switch things up.
As someone who doesn't own the 1st edition game yet, I am excited to get my hands on the 2nd edition copy. Thanks for the content!
Thank you for doing this. Very informative and really helped me on which edition I want to collect. My decision is now to get the first edition. While I like the solo mode and gameplay variant I’m not a fan of removing the Indians and teepees and the attempt to make the characters more “inclusive”. My wife pointed out if they are trying to be more accurate changing San Francisco to New York how is it more accurate removing the Indians and making everything “inclusive” or “diversive”?
Someday would love to see a comparison / buyers guide video of GWT 2nd Edition, Argentina and New Zealand.
Very happy to see the Outlaw section. That always bothered me about the previous edition. I'll buy it (especially with the solo mode).
I literally like everything about 2nd Edition better. Good thing, cause I sold my first edition as soon as the 2nd was announced.
I prefer the old one.
Super fair, not enough change to warrant a complete switch.
Wouldn't mind knowing if you would prefer this over Maracaibo now that there's a 2nd edition?
I think we both prefer Maracaibo.
@@BeforeYouPlay are they similar games other than theme? Do I need to own both?
@@grog3514 Similar yet different lol (I know super unhelpful). They both feature a rondel system where you are taking actions along the way around the board (hence the similarity). If it's game night and we can only play 1 game between the 2, We both would be picking Maracaibo.
I really appreciate y'all educating us on this new edition, especially because it's apparently going to be hard to get ahold of
Hope the video helps! :-)
I’m pretty annoyed that I had just bought the first version, sleeved it and even bought an insert only to hear about this new version…so so annoying.
Going the route of Five Tribes, changing the teepees, is political correctness going mad. The sanitisation of history, no matter the tenuous link, is a huge thumbs down. “Meh.”
Oh, congratulations on getting to 28k. Brilliant stuff!
For a game that was on my wishlist for some time now, I’m glad this 2nd edition looks great . Looking forward to finally owning GWT 🤠 🐮
The addition of the bags is great.I did the same with some of the tiles in castles of burgundy.Great game but a pain to set up.
I really wanted to get this edition but not sure I agree with erasing Native American's representation on the game board. Other than that, everything looks good. Might just get the new version and print out my own teepees to leave the stronger theme there rather than the lazy "outlaw area"
Will the rails expansion be made for it? I love that xpac!
I never got the first game due to lack of players and solo mode, so the second edition is very appealing in that regard. The idea that the AI's strategy can dynamically change is very appealing, and rare to find in most other solo mode games.
I always play solo but can you suggest to buy it for solo mode? Thanks
Hi there, we unfortunately have no experience with the solo experience. Have you tried looking through the BGG forums to see what other have said about the solo experience?
Love the game, but I'm OK with the first edition, playing this solo most of the time, some clever BGG'ers have made nice solo variants.
You pronounced Simmental correct in English, in Swiss German or other languages it sounds different obviously.
We've heard that there are some good user generated solos out there. Hopefully this one will live up to those :-)
@@BeforeYouPlay The solo mode looks like an identical copy of the "Garth" solo mode on BGG.
Oops. Saw the the text in the manual says exactly that! :D
I like how they addressed two of the major issues with the game. First being the kansas city reward of $6. This was too overpowered. Second being the heavy reliance on cowboys. The new cow and some of the building tiles and the station rewards help to allow non-cowboy players to have a chance to stay in the game if they are locked out of cowboys.
I have put off getting Great Western Trail because I heard that this new edition was coming out.
Naveen, who's there making you say you like that horrible old box...blink if you need help :)
LOL, he will never see this comment I'll be sure of it! 😜
@@BeforeYouPlay dubbing it the Mt Rushmore of angry old men does actually make it more tolerable. Definitely getting the new version as I've never taken the plunge on GWT.
As an European I really can't see the "problem" in trading with the natives really.... The same with the diversity/representation in workers... For me It doesn't hurt the gameplay either way so...
The new buildings seems quite bland though, there is less detail as the building seems smaller.
Cgrats on a really nice review, happy to see that you are getting previews of hot commodities on the hobby.
Simmental would be SI mun taal with the emphasis on Si, I guess, it's probably German or Swiss
The mount rushmore of angry men. LOL
I honestly like the original better in pretty much every way except the it should have came with the double inlaid player boards. We usually accidentally bump the table at least once per game and it's annoying. I've got the expansion already and I think I'll just keep my first edition.
Come on guys, the Hats are adorable! ;)
What bothers me about the update is the bizarre and intellectually dishonest take on the Indians being insensitive. The action within the game explicitly says trade and the Indians only become a costly road block to the player if they don't trade with them. Mechanically you are encouraged to trade with the Indians as a means of fostering a mutually beneficial relationship. If you don't, well you're punished for your use of their land without providing them the things they want in return. Hell, even the iconography displays the respectful and beneficial relationship between cowboy and indian! It is two hands coming together in unity.
I keep hearing from white people how I as a native person need representation and yet when I am represented in a game it is taken away because some white people got offended. You can't win.
This is all just a criticism of that one change and not you guys. You guys are great.
Simmental looks German (I have no knowledge of cows lol) but you have to pronounce the mm not the e. With only one m it would be the e !
As always, another great video from you two!
Was there any balance changes to any of the other buildings? I’ve heard that maybe a couple of those buildings have been tweaked and was hoping to see a photo of any possible changes.
Keep up the great work!
Hi Jeremy (if that's your real name 😜), thank you so much for your request. We went ahead and posted in our "community tab" images with descriptions of the changes between the 2 editions. Sorry there is no way to link directly to that post, you'll have to do just a little bit of digging. Hope this helps!
Fantastic. Thanks!
Hello, would you please do a playtrough from GWT Argentina?😍😍 greetings from Bavaria 🤗
Though not game related, I love the length and color variation of your hair, Bunny. Just wanted to let you know…now, back to the game.
Thanks you! I think I’ll be coloring it again soon ☺️
German here. You pronounced Simmental almost right. The ‚a‘ in Simmental ist a long spoken a. It almost sounds like the ‚a‘ in gather.
One of my favorite games. So looking forward to this new edition!
FINALLY I understand this game! I’ve read the rules, watched two videos on how to play it, and two more playthroughs of it, but it was THIS video that did it. Thanks so much!
This game was so difficult to understand for me also, I'm 90 percent there but I hope its worth it
it's nice to finally see the game. I've been holding off on gwt since I learned of the reprint. I think I'll be getting this one for sure
Hello! Any plans on trying out GWT: Argentina? If you've already tried it, how do you like it?
Glad to see wokism is making it's way to the hobby.
7:37 Monique hand is so professional. Doesn't move at all, like hyper focus
I cannot believe that the hats were a negative for you! #HatGang 🎩
So close to being the 500th like. Someone else's thumb will have to take this coveted role.
Haha, early bird gets the 500th worm!
Thank you for the video! Do they are planning to realease the expansion also with a 2nd edition?
Hi Jose, we unfortunately don't know much about the release details. We had hoped that this edition would have included the expansion material...
The Exchange tokens were introduced in the Rails to the North expansion. (As was New York).
Great Western Trail is in my top 10, but I'm torn as to whether or not I should replace my 1st edition with this one.
Honestly doesn't seem worth it
@@dpearson588 you could be right.
Thanks for the info! Sadly, more W0ke trash to skip
I've played GWT 350+ times and never have I felt that the gameplay needed tweaks. Did it need component upgrades? Absolutely, esp. that player board which I see they've made dual-layered. But the rest is completely unnecessary. I would have bought a component-upgraded second edition despite owning the first. Now, not so sure.
What is especially puzzling to me is the need to switch the colours of the craftsmen (builders) and the engineers. I'm so used to purple being an engineer and the yellow (?) being the craftsmen that I'm not sure if I'd be able to digest that change acceptably quickly.
I played the original game at 2 player count and liked it, but was disappointed there was no official solo mode included. The upgraded player boards, plus a solo mode, not to mentioning little cowboy hats!! This was a no brainier, plus it only cost £33!!!! Bargain!!!!, Great overview guys.
Is the expansion (Rails To The North) compatible with the new second edition base game? At the very least the art would be different right? I know you said they might release a new expansion for it. But has anyone out there actually tried combining the two (2nd edition base with old expansion) and did it work ok?
Seems like an improvement, with Argentina edition being better again.
As much as I'm curious how the third will shape up I have to say as an Australian I am outraged that Pfister is creating part 3 on the islands of New Zealand instead of the sweeping outback of Australia. Cattle droving(which is slang, not a typo) is a bigger part of our history and has relevance today to a some extent. Given it's such an obvious fit I'm left baffled by the choice here and it seems like any roundel system in NZ is going to lack any sense of scale compared to The Great Western Trail the series is named after. That's my rant, just got my hopes up hearing there was a third edition I guess...
Bought the older edition a few months ago and haven't had much chance to play it. For Christmas my sweet family bought me the 2nd edition (probably not knowing I already had it). Honestly I like the art of the game board and cow cards of the original way way more than the new edition. Now I'm trying to figure out how to Frankenstein the two editions together mostly so I can use the original game board but with the 2nd editions upgrades and tweaks. Or should I just use the nice player aids from the 2nd edition and ignore the rest or just simply play the 2nd edition as is. Am I crazy for even caring that much or trying? Anybody else tried mixing the two?
Hi Monique and Naveen! Thanks for the playthrough, I think I will buy this one! Btw, have you seen the cooperative game Robin Hood and the Merry Men? I would love to see you do a playthrough of that one! :)
I've seen some comments suggesting it is hard to read the negative red numbers on the gold coins on the board, tiles, etc. From the video, it does appear the font has less of a white halo compared to the first edition. Did you all have any trouble with this?
Awesome coverage on the game. It was a favorite of mine and havent played it in a while. Played it last night and all the rules clicked for me again. Nice to see the second edition is actually really nice so i may consider upgrading
It looks like there is a 40th space on the train track separated from the station on space 39 via a wood plank. Can you confirm/deny if this is true?
I played just once the old one and I was suprise I liked it a lot but personally for me it was very ugly to buy it, I think this has change my opinion.
I sure laughed at Naveens "happy child" smile looking at those small hats 😆 #newfavouritegamepiece
But what happened to the calf cards? I'm sure there was some info released about calf cards... 🤔
Do you know if there will be any ongoing campaign or anything between this and the new ones? Like the West Kingdom games have.
I've taken a Sharpie Marker to my cover, and it's now called "Great Western Beef."
Is it compatible with the existing expansion?
It would have been nice for them to include expansion with this 2nd edition. Rails to the North is kind of a must-have expansion that works as a complement to the base game. Only maybe then they could have made more people interested in dumping the old copy.
Thanks for this. Been holding out since I heard of the new edition, however I’ve started seeing the older version start popping up everywhere again. I was thinking if there was a sale I may not be able to hold out!
After seeing this, I think I will.
The trilogy idea reminds me of Brasses Lancashire and Birmingham. An interesting idea, but I don't imagine I'd ever want both!
The solo version in the box seems like a professionally printed version of a BGG solo version. So if you are a PnP person, you can get something like it for the crafting price. Not sure if it's identical, but functionally looks very similar
Thanks for the video. I will buy this as I couldn't get the first edition and waiting for this since it has announced. Very good to see the differences. I hope the RTTN expansion also comes soon.
I wish you did a teach of this edition. I got it in and there are no how to plays for it. Never played the old one :(.
Thanks for this (another) great review ! Do you think that the +6 to +4 gold fix for Kansas City can be applied on the first edition or are the other tweaks also needed to balance this change ?
Thanks again for your wonderful work !
Thanks for the overview - great video, as usual! The game is still missing in my collection, so now might be the best time to jump in. 😎
Sim (as in sim city) - men - tall
Very nice review! I would be really happy if they could just sell the AI-deck as a separate component. Then the people that already own the game doesn't have to cough up the money for a whole new game, just for the solo mode AI deck...
I need the second edition because I don't own the first edition and the solo mode is a must. But I agree with Naveen and I prefer the original box art
I would have preferred cowpoke on horseback meeples, a la Viscounts of the West Kingdom.
The Mt. Rushmore of angry men...isn't that...Mt. Rushmore?
LOL!
Exchange tokens are not specific to the 2e. They are in the expansion, Rails to the North.
It looks nice and a lot of those changes seem good and useful but without the expansion it seems like a downgrade and therefore there is no reason to upgrade for me.
Glad to hear I don't need to run out and get the 2nd edition....I kind of like the creepy guys on the box cover.
Great Western Trail is one of our favourite games, but I’m not sure this adds enough for me to bother upgrading.
Do you think the solo automa could be used in a multiplayer game?
Hi. Thanks for this video. As for you, I don’t have the first edition so it is a no brainer for me also.
Thanks for the comparison. Are the solo rules available to read? I'd like to get an idea of how the official solo mode compares to the fanmade ones that are currently available.
Very nice overview, thanks! I appreciate you covering all of the slight rule adjustments. Hope I can snag a copy at Gen Con.
Great Western trail: woke revisionist history edition.