The thieves guild is one BIG reason this game is so much better than Skyrim. The thieve’s guilds perks such as getting you out of trouble by paying Armand is a nice added little touch and NEEDING to pay the fences make stealing a viable way to make money and introduce you to it. Love this game and your content, man. I don’t have a lot of time to play games so you doing these series is a great way I can dive into oblivion and relive a childhood favorite. Appreciate you.
Okay but can we take a minute to consider the absolute snark of Corvus Umbranox? With just one forged letter, he arranged the best possible protection for his wife - with no guarantee that his plan would succeed - removed a problem for the future Gray Fox, AND became THE BOSS of the man who's been hunting him for years. Lex will spend the rest of his life having no idea that Count Umbranox was the Gray Fox, and Corvus just gets to sit in his throne and chuckle at him forever. This man was playing 4D chess. I now headcanon that every so often, Corvus just yells out, "Hey Lex! I'm over here!" And just laughs while Lex is just so confused 😆
it always makes me laugh to imagine the Hero of Kvatch and Methredhel shoving each other aside to get into Amantius's house first and making a huge ruckus in his house while they clamor for his journal in his desk lmao
Oblivion Questlines are so much more memorable for me than the Skyrim ones. Like base game skyrim quests are almost exclusively, go clear out a nordic/dwarven ruin, cave, or fort. The dark brotherhood was decent, but most quests are pure dungeon crawls.
This is where Oblivion shines the most compared to morrowind and skyrim: Level/quest design and interactability. Morrowind has interesting quests but for the most part this is due to the intrigue around them and what they tell you about the lore more than what you actually do in said quests, Skyrim is as you said all ruins and dungeon delving even when it doesnt make sense (cough cough bards college) this is because Bethesda are either lazy, forgot how to make an rpg or both.
i still watch the full stitched-together versions even after the individual parts, tbh, i feel like you get two different viewing experiences like that. When you're viewing the individual parts as they are uploaded, and the eventual full-thing takes what you got, then makes it take a more permanent form, plot details you'd never otherwise remember are way more notable and stick out more.
Thank you for making top tier content. I don't have time to play video games at the moment and I always have a strong allure to Elder Scrolls. There are plenty of Skyrim based channels, but less for Oblivion. I love lore, but sometimes it's nice to experience the nostalgia of questlines again. It's become a daily ritual when winding down before bed to watch your videos. Thank you for what you do ❤️
I really appreciate your support thank you very much! :) I gotta give the love to oblivion as it’s definitely my favourite of the elder scrolls games! I hope the content keeps on bringing you that nostalgic joy! :)
I’m still here and I still love you! Been going through some personal stuff recently. Finally had some time to decompress and saw you released this long form gem. Glad to be here at the start of you’re journey and excited to see you take off! Thank you for the distraction during hard times, keep doing what you’re doing
I'll be honest, knowing that Bethesda did not really take too great of care with the lore of their own property sours me on The Elder Scrolls and it has become such a massive mainstream thing that it now seems mundane looking back at it, but Oblivion is like a comfort game, so I very much enjoy this content.
If you have a spell/potion/high enough acro, you can survive jumping down the chute without wearing the Boots of Springheel Jack, and you can keep them to use later. They are only scripted to break during that part of the quest.
1:25:27 First acknowledgement of a "wicked voice change" regardless of the fact that all of the beggars have been pulling those off in nearly every interaction thus far
The Thieves Guild in Oblivion is so much better than the one in Skyrim. Actually all the factions in Oblivion are better than Skyrim. Most of the quest writing is better in Oblivion in general. Skyrim did so well because it had mass appeal by holding your hand more than any other Elder Scrolls before it. The game mechanics were dumbed down more than any other Elder Scrolls before it. Oblivion had already started down that path but Skyrim took it to a whole new level of casual gamer friendly. The gameplay and at the time the graphics where the big appeal but if they could have taken some of the advanced mechanics of Daggerfall and Morrowind and the quality writing of Oblivion and mixed it with Skyrim's strongest attributes it would have been amazing. After waiting 15 years we will finally get Elder Scrolls 6 and I'm almost afraid to see how badly they are going to nerf that game in the name of mass appeal.
Might also explain the lack of mention of the Hero of Kvatch in Skyrim. Because the Cowl erases you from history and the more significant accomplishments are credited to someone else.
for the using console commands for the ring, i feel like it's a rule at this point that if a bethesda game is bugged and you can use console commands to fix it you can do so guilt-free
This would be super interesting, but I think it would be impossible since the diary is a quest item so you can never remove it from your inventory once you have it Theoretically you could use console commands to place a version of it in Amusei's inventory, but I have to believe that this would either do nothing or break the quest, depending on whether you opt to delete the original in the process. Still, this could be worth testing - wouldn't take long to do
because they just brought in the like 5 voice actors to do all their lines without much order or organization to it, from what i remember. so the direction to keep them consistent per character was nonexistent outside of really important characters
For me personally? The Thieves' Guild in Oblivion is interesting in just how... odd it is in a lot of ways. For example you earn more infamy being a theif, notably very much a "Robin Hood" style champion of the people thief, than you do for being a Dark Brotherhood Assassin. It's an odd thing really that always hit me as strange. But also it's a case of the guild not really matching what I thought it was going to be when I first play it. As you have basically two phases to the Guild's storyline. The hook they give you is "Get more coin, get less jail". But what you actually end up doing during the first half of the Guild is less about getting paid, and more about doing the Robin Hood thing. It's like a lot of Oblivion Guilds in that the introduction is kind of the best part. I like that there are multiple entry points to the guild to stumble upon. From the easiest "Get caught stealing" to the obscure "Hear a rumor from City-Swimmer". I like that they set up the midnight meeting and have that contest and everything it does for the set up, with bribing beggars, racing another thief, losing perhaps and having to steal from them in turn, etc. But for me? It takes a nose dive as you go from "Being a Thief" to "being Robin Hood". It's very... mood dependent on the priming. If I'm in the right mood for being Robin Hood it can actually be fairly fun. But often... I wish I was doing thievery instead. I like conceptually the idea of having to "earn your role" by fencing goods to get missions. But the benchmarks are so low that basically one B&E of a Mage's Guild or a Store will get you past the highest marks, rather than really having to grind it out as a thief (which I think it needs, more padding to the quest line and less one shotting it). Then you go from Robin Hood to the whole plot about the Daedric Curse, the Grey Fox, and restoring the Count of Anvil. It's... very much an abrupt feeling break for me. Particularly because the padding isn't there due to the easy passing of fencing requirements before you ever get there. But also because it's very... "out of nowhere". Like there's hints about it if you're paying attention like seeing "Stranger" show up at court every day in Anvil (which is kind of it), but the whole idea of the guild being cursed and the Grey Fox's curse feels very sudden when I play it. The reveal of the Count breaking the curse, returning to Anvil, and Time Travel Shenanigans meaning the guild hall is restored feels like it's just... there. The heist of the elder scroll itself had some decent pacing though with setting up each step you'd need. I like it. But for me? I can't but help in hindsight look at the Skyrim's Thieves Guild as basically "Do it over again, but better". And I know a lot of people think that's a wrong thought. But follow along. Instead of Fencing you get side jobs. These take a lot more time and thus are better paced to actually last you through the Guild's story line instead of being done with it forever in about 10 minutes of playtime. I also like that contrary to what the Doyen says in Oblivion, in Skyrim you do have "Jobs". It fits better with the idea of Organized Crime over petty theft and Robin Hood. Similarly they drop the Robin Hood aspect, and instead rightly focus on the culmination of the quest line, the Curse, right away. It's something every member of the Thieves' Guild mentions in the game. Bad luck, jobs that went awry. Heck a common random encounter you get in Riften until you finish the Thieves' Guild is a Guild Thief NPC getting caught and just destroyed by the town guards at night (relatively high chance to trigger when you load into the main Riften City cell late at night). So you actually SEE the effects of this curse regularly in unscripted (rather than one off) scenes. It explains why the Guild is in the state it's in (the Guildmaster looting everything from the Guild's vaults as well as the curse double whammy). The actions you take are more criminal. You frame a mark as your introduction. You shake down store owners for protection money. You intimidate a business owner for breaking away from the protection racket in Goldenglow. The main story quest jobs all have hidden little treasures for you to find off the beaten path and good loot for the would be sneak thief in the night. The quest line itself builds up to the showdown with Mercer and the breaking of the curse instead of it feeling like whiplash out of nowhere. But even then, you're not named Guildmaster just because "You did the last job" but you have to actually fully do the job. Restore the Guild and its influence as well as break the curse. Prove you're actually a thief who wants to be the best damned thief around and not just a brutish thug who could clobber Mercer Frey. You have to be a thief... which controversial as it may sound, I like. It's my disappointment with the Companions and the College of Winterhold in that game. I don't have to be at all what I joined to be. But if I want to really finish the Thieves Guild and get that title? Well it's not meaningless. I have to be be the master thief. Then again I get part of why the Thieves' Guild in Skyrim was hated (and Oblivion Loved) was both the Robin Hood aspect (most I know list the whole Robin Hood act as their favorite part), and people's kind of knee jerk reaction to hate Radiant Quests. Though... frankly I think Radiant Quests have a good place in a Guild. And the Thieves' Guild does it well. Unlike say the Companions, Dark Brotherhood, or College of Winterhold, where I want to see the Radiant Quests is at the start of a quest line, not the end. They have a great potential as "Day Jobs to earn your stripes". Because I don't expect (or really want) some overblown intro to a Guild like Oblivion often did, for a lame duck middle stretch drudging on to an out of nowhere conclusion. I want to slowly build up. And a Fighter's Guild giving you a bunch of quests like "Kill this bear that kicked someone out of their house" or "beat up this drunk for some intimidation" or "Kill that bandit" is perfectly acceptable Introduction work. "Find the super secret rare founder artifact and uncover our dark secret" should probably not be the second job I do for an organization. So it's a weird thing for me. At the time the idea of a more "Robin Hood" guild wasn't so strange to me as some might claim. I came off Morrowind where the Thieves' Guild purposefully has a quest chain about being Noble Thieves righting wrongs after all in that same sense. It's been established. But... in Morrowind it was also a situational thing. It was an act meant to help establish a foothold in a very hostile realm controlled by another criminal syndicate. But the fact that it was so squeaky clean. That everything you do is "Noble" and noble for noble's sake... yet the game treats you like a megavillain over it more so than being an insane murder cultist... it's weird. The tonal whiplash of the various acts to the Thieves' Guild was weird. It just felt to me like it wasn't entirely there, or that you had like 2 people fighting over what the guild was supposed to be.
I will add, and maybe it's just me? i thought the Grey Cowl was kind of a callback to Daggerfall. In Daggerfall if you become a Vampire, or a Werewolf, or Wereboar, you similarly have that kind of "Alternate Persona" thing going on. As a vampire no one remembers who you are (and you build up a new reputation instead) and if cured of Vampirism go back to your old Identity. Similar being transformed as a were-critter no one tags who you are and all your various crimes are attached to your were-critter identity. It's still a nice touch. For me though I just went "oh hey, they're doing that again!" and appreciated it. It's kind of a fascinating idea and I hope the next game picks it up again/expands on it. From disguises to just yeah, no one recognizes that Silvar Stone-Hand and the Werewolf attacking the town are the same person.
The thieves guild is one BIG reason this game is so much better than Skyrim. The thieve’s guilds perks such as getting you out of trouble by paying Armand is a nice added little touch and NEEDING to pay the fences make stealing a viable way to make money and introduce you to it. Love this game and your content, man. I don’t have a lot of time to play games so you doing these series is a great way I can dive into oblivion and relive a childhood favorite. Appreciate you.
Our guy Bard is really out here consistently providing audiobook levels of quality content for free. We are not worthy!
Haha I’m definitely trying to do you guys right! I hope you enjoy it!
Imagine dickriding a youtuber for free😂
@@ABardsBalladthank you for all of your efforts!! I look forward to every upload ^^
Okay but can we take a minute to consider the absolute snark of Corvus Umbranox? With just one forged letter, he arranged the best possible protection for his wife - with no guarantee that his plan would succeed - removed a problem for the future Gray Fox, AND became THE BOSS of the man who's been hunting him for years. Lex will spend the rest of his life having no idea that Count Umbranox was the Gray Fox, and Corvus just gets to sit in his throne and chuckle at him forever. This man was playing 4D chess.
I now headcanon that every so often, Corvus just yells out, "Hey Lex! I'm over here!" And just laughs while Lex is just so confused 😆
it always makes me laugh to imagine the Hero of Kvatch and Methredhel shoving each other aside to get into Amantius's house first and making a huge ruckus in his house while they clamor for his journal in his desk lmao
Oblivion Questlines are so much more memorable for me than the Skyrim ones. Like base game skyrim quests are almost exclusively, go clear out a nordic/dwarven ruin, cave, or fort. The dark brotherhood was decent, but most quests are pure dungeon crawls.
This is where Oblivion shines the most compared to morrowind and skyrim: Level/quest design and interactability. Morrowind has interesting quests but for the most part this is due to the intrigue around them and what they tell you about the lore more than what you actually do in said quests, Skyrim is as you said all ruins and dungeon delving even when it doesnt make sense (cough cough bards college) this is because Bethesda are either lazy, forgot how to make an rpg or both.
i still watch the full stitched-together versions even after the individual parts, tbh, i feel like you get two different viewing experiences like that. When you're viewing the individual parts as they are uploaded, and the eventual full-thing takes what you got, then makes it take a more permanent form, plot details you'd never otherwise remember are way more notable and stick out more.
I like it! Very well put! Yeah the parts are like little hits of the oblivion world building and lore, and then the full videos are the entire story!
Thank you for making top tier content. I don't have time to play video games at the moment and I always have a strong allure to Elder Scrolls. There are plenty of Skyrim based channels, but less for Oblivion. I love lore, but sometimes it's nice to experience the nostalgia of questlines again. It's become a daily ritual when winding down before bed to watch your videos. Thank you for what you do ❤️
I really appreciate your support thank you very much! :) I gotta give the love to oblivion as it’s definitely my favourite of the elder scrolls games! I hope the content keeps on bringing you that nostalgic joy! :)
I’m still here and I still love you! Been going through some personal stuff recently. Finally had some time to decompress and saw you released this long form gem. Glad to be here at the start of you’re journey and excited to see you take off! Thank you for the distraction during hard times, keep doing what you’re doing
I listen to these at work all day. I do t actually wanna play oblivion again. This fills the void I appreciate you buddy
Who’s playing Oblivion still now in *2024?*
It's funny that the messenger who brings you the invitation is the same lady who is the mole in the guild
I’ve been playing this video on loop for weeks and months now-it’s my go-to for relaxation. It never gets old at all
Why not use some of the other videos though, like the dark brotherhood one? Why just this one?
I'll be honest, knowing that Bethesda did not really take too great of care with the lore of their own property sours me on The Elder Scrolls and it has become such a massive mainstream thing that it now seems mundane looking back at it, but Oblivion is like a comfort game, so I very much enjoy this content.
What lore continuity have they neglected? Genuinely curious
Thanks for uploading! I can't sleep without an hours-long oblivion essay. I haven't slept in days!
Haha! Well just for you I’ll try my best to pump em out frequently 😂
Ain’t no way you’ve only got 13k these videos are fantastic been watching for awhile now
I love long format lore videos like this, great job man! You got a sub haha
If you have a spell/potion/high enough acro, you can survive jumping down the chute without wearing the Boots of Springheel Jack, and you can keep them to use later. They are only scripted to break during that part of the quest.
Been loving this content. Keep it up and thank you
I’m really glad to hear it! I appreciate the support! :)
You videos are why im looking forward to going to sleep everyday, love your content
I’m glad to hear it! I hope you enjoyed it!
Love your vids man. Started a brutal job last month and this escape to tamriel is just what the doctor ordered. Thanks buddy.
The amount of effort you must put into these, bravo mate.
Thrashed means beaten. Hillod was roughed up for being empty handed.
Great videos man! I really enjoy everything you put out.
Thank you for your fine work. These are absolutely gold, and just in time for my annual playthrough
Always watch each chapters and of course the complete play through is well done. 😉☺️👍!
I definitely appreciate it! :) I hope you enjoyed this one! :)
Way underrated channel
I'm glad that amusei actually progressed with you even tho he was dead last
Pro tip: Rob the jewelry store in the Imperial City and all the other shops at night and you wont have to worry about fences the entire questline.
Just discovered your channel recently and im loving these videos. Keep up the awesome work man.
Thanks this walk through helped me with the last quest for the thieves Guild
Don’t take this the wrong way but these are so good to listen to before bed. Amazing content! Thanks :)
I remember this side quest better than i do for the main quest
Love this format please make more!
Did i watch all the individual videos? Yes. Am i still gonna watch the complete story. Absolutely
I love this story. I have played oblivion for years but I don't have a system any more.
Congratulations on reaching 13k!
Thank you!! I appreciate it! It’s been a fun ride so far!! :)
Babe wake up, A Bards Ballad just dropped new content 😍
Haha I love it! I hope you enjoyed it!
ah yes, the greatest of the Gray Fox's crimes; Tax evasion
This content is what I need in my life ❤❤❤ Ty.
Have you seen Armand Christophe?
No sign of him.
Absolutely love your videos 🌻🌻🌻
Love these long form vids
Methredhel goes straight to the diary. You can just follow her and enter the door first. Shes super slow once she goes inside and sneaks.
43:04 Mazoga cameo! ❤
I'm still not getting over the Jakben Imbel joke.. that quest was SO obvious.
1:25:27
First acknowledgement of a "wicked voice change" regardless of the fact that all of the beggars have been pulling those off in nearly every interaction thus far
24:00 thrashed means beaten. So since he didn’t have money the best him for the effort.
dude i love your content
The Thieves Guild in Oblivion is so much better than the one in Skyrim. Actually all the factions in Oblivion are better than Skyrim. Most of the quest writing is better in Oblivion in general. Skyrim did so well because it had mass appeal by holding your hand more than any other Elder Scrolls before it. The game mechanics were dumbed down more than any other Elder Scrolls before it. Oblivion had already started down that path but Skyrim took it to a whole new level of casual gamer friendly. The gameplay and at the time the graphics where the big appeal but if they could have taken some of the advanced mechanics of Daggerfall and Morrowind and the quality writing of Oblivion and mixed it with Skyrim's strongest attributes it would have been amazing. After waiting 15 years we will finally get Elder Scrolls 6 and I'm almost afraid to see how badly they are going to nerf that game in the name of mass appeal.
Might also explain the lack of mention of the Hero of Kvatch in Skyrim. Because the Cowl erases you from history and the more significant accomplishments are credited to someone else.
The Cowl's effect was repaired with the Elder Scroll you stole.
for the using console commands for the ring, i feel like it's a rule at this point that if a bethesda game is bugged and you can use console commands to fix it you can do so guilt-free
1:18:47 Oh, the irony.
I know this is niche. But what if you pick pocket the book off meren and put in on amunsei?
This would be super interesting, but I think it would be impossible since the diary is a quest item so you can never remove it from your inventory once you have it
Theoretically you could use console commands to place a version of it in Amusei's inventory, but I have to believe that this would either do nothing or break the quest, depending on whether you opt to delete the original in the process. Still, this could be worth testing - wouldn't take long to do
People don't give the thieves guild quest line enough credit
55:04 Pretty sure that's a Dremora, not a Daedroth. Daedroth are giant beasts.
20 gold is 20 gold
1:25:00 WHY did his voice change omg
Lol
Bethesda jank
because they just brought in the like 5 voice actors to do all their lines without much order or organization to it, from what i remember. so the direction to keep them consistent per character was nonexistent outside of really important characters
this is actually a dope video how do you only have 15k subs let me up that number for you by 1
God this game was so much better :(
lolol....Hillod had no money....He was "thrashed".....aka, beaten.....
Godtier channel
Infinatrly better story than skyrims thieves guild, even if it has 5 voive actors across 25 characters
Shame city swimmer dies in like 90% of playthroughs because of the AI get caught stealing bread
57:10 the what who?!
Generic comment for the algorithm.
Honestly its better to experience Oblivion without playing it.....
Look everyone. It’s someone we asked!
@@Mimaw1 most people don't want to hear the truth. You're welcome.
I feel bad for you if you never grew up playing this
For me personally? The Thieves' Guild in Oblivion is interesting in just how... odd it is in a lot of ways.
For example you earn more infamy being a theif, notably very much a "Robin Hood" style champion of the people thief, than you do for being a Dark Brotherhood Assassin. It's an odd thing really that always hit me as strange.
But also it's a case of the guild not really matching what I thought it was going to be when I first play it. As you have basically two phases to the Guild's storyline. The hook they give you is "Get more coin, get less jail". But what you actually end up doing during the first half of the Guild is less about getting paid, and more about doing the Robin Hood thing. It's like a lot of Oblivion Guilds in that the introduction is kind of the best part. I like that there are multiple entry points to the guild to stumble upon. From the easiest "Get caught stealing" to the obscure "Hear a rumor from City-Swimmer". I like that they set up the midnight meeting and have that contest and everything it does for the set up, with bribing beggars, racing another thief, losing perhaps and having to steal from them in turn, etc.
But for me? It takes a nose dive as you go from "Being a Thief" to "being Robin Hood". It's very... mood dependent on the priming. If I'm in the right mood for being Robin Hood it can actually be fairly fun. But often... I wish I was doing thievery instead. I like conceptually the idea of having to "earn your role" by fencing goods to get missions. But the benchmarks are so low that basically one B&E of a Mage's Guild or a Store will get you past the highest marks, rather than really having to grind it out as a thief (which I think it needs, more padding to the quest line and less one shotting it).
Then you go from Robin Hood to the whole plot about the Daedric Curse, the Grey Fox, and restoring the Count of Anvil. It's... very much an abrupt feeling break for me. Particularly because the padding isn't there due to the easy passing of fencing requirements before you ever get there. But also because it's very... "out of nowhere". Like there's hints about it if you're paying attention like seeing "Stranger" show up at court every day in Anvil (which is kind of it), but the whole idea of the guild being cursed and the Grey Fox's curse feels very sudden when I play it. The reveal of the Count breaking the curse, returning to Anvil, and Time Travel Shenanigans meaning the guild hall is restored feels like it's just... there. The heist of the elder scroll itself had some decent pacing though with setting up each step you'd need. I like it.
But for me? I can't but help in hindsight look at the Skyrim's Thieves Guild as basically "Do it over again, but better". And I know a lot of people think that's a wrong thought. But follow along.
Instead of Fencing you get side jobs. These take a lot more time and thus are better paced to actually last you through the Guild's story line instead of being done with it forever in about 10 minutes of playtime.
I also like that contrary to what the Doyen says in Oblivion, in Skyrim you do have "Jobs". It fits better with the idea of Organized Crime over petty theft and Robin Hood.
Similarly they drop the Robin Hood aspect, and instead rightly focus on the culmination of the quest line, the Curse, right away. It's something every member of the Thieves' Guild mentions in the game. Bad luck, jobs that went awry. Heck a common random encounter you get in Riften until you finish the Thieves' Guild is a Guild Thief NPC getting caught and just destroyed by the town guards at night (relatively high chance to trigger when you load into the main Riften City cell late at night). So you actually SEE the effects of this curse regularly in unscripted (rather than one off) scenes. It explains why the Guild is in the state it's in (the Guildmaster looting everything from the Guild's vaults as well as the curse double whammy).
The actions you take are more criminal. You frame a mark as your introduction. You shake down store owners for protection money. You intimidate a business owner for breaking away from the protection racket in Goldenglow. The main story quest jobs all have hidden little treasures for you to find off the beaten path and good loot for the would be sneak thief in the night. The quest line itself builds up to the showdown with Mercer and the breaking of the curse instead of it feeling like whiplash out of nowhere.
But even then, you're not named Guildmaster just because "You did the last job" but you have to actually fully do the job. Restore the Guild and its influence as well as break the curse. Prove you're actually a thief who wants to be the best damned thief around and not just a brutish thug who could clobber Mercer Frey. You have to be a thief... which controversial as it may sound, I like. It's my disappointment with the Companions and the College of Winterhold in that game. I don't have to be at all what I joined to be. But if I want to really finish the Thieves Guild and get that title? Well it's not meaningless. I have to be be the master thief.
Then again I get part of why the Thieves' Guild in Skyrim was hated (and Oblivion Loved) was both the Robin Hood aspect (most I know list the whole Robin Hood act as their favorite part), and people's kind of knee jerk reaction to hate Radiant Quests. Though... frankly I think Radiant Quests have a good place in a Guild. And the Thieves' Guild does it well. Unlike say the Companions, Dark Brotherhood, or College of Winterhold, where I want to see the Radiant Quests is at the start of a quest line, not the end. They have a great potential as "Day Jobs to earn your stripes". Because I don't expect (or really want) some overblown intro to a Guild like Oblivion often did, for a lame duck middle stretch drudging on to an out of nowhere conclusion. I want to slowly build up. And a Fighter's Guild giving you a bunch of quests like "Kill this bear that kicked someone out of their house" or "beat up this drunk for some intimidation" or "Kill that bandit" is perfectly acceptable Introduction work. "Find the super secret rare founder artifact and uncover our dark secret" should probably not be the second job I do for an organization.
So it's a weird thing for me. At the time the idea of a more "Robin Hood" guild wasn't so strange to me as some might claim. I came off Morrowind where the Thieves' Guild purposefully has a quest chain about being Noble Thieves righting wrongs after all in that same sense. It's been established. But... in Morrowind it was also a situational thing. It was an act meant to help establish a foothold in a very hostile realm controlled by another criminal syndicate.
But the fact that it was so squeaky clean. That everything you do is "Noble" and noble for noble's sake... yet the game treats you like a megavillain over it more so than being an insane murder cultist... it's weird. The tonal whiplash of the various acts to the Thieves' Guild was weird. It just felt to me like it wasn't entirely there, or that you had like 2 people fighting over what the guild was supposed to be.
I will add, and maybe it's just me? i thought the Grey Cowl was kind of a callback to Daggerfall. In Daggerfall if you become a Vampire, or a Werewolf, or Wereboar, you similarly have that kind of "Alternate Persona" thing going on. As a vampire no one remembers who you are (and you build up a new reputation instead) and if cured of Vampirism go back to your old Identity. Similar being transformed as a were-critter no one tags who you are and all your various crimes are attached to your were-critter identity. It's still a nice touch. For me though I just went "oh hey, they're doing that again!" and appreciated it. It's kind of a fascinating idea and I hope the next game picks it up again/expands on it. From disguises to just yeah, no one recognizes that Silvar Stone-Hand and the Werewolf attacking the town are the same person.
Generic comment for the algorithm.