Loved the insights into Mind Control at SR. Would like to hear more of this sort of stuff (though not necessarily with all the sass :P. Given all the the personnel changes its hard to keep up with all the specific players and teams, what their play styles and personalities are like and how these might be working together).
With all respect to Tundra and the lovely editor putting these videos together: don't stop SVG when he's cooking! Loving this podcast and delighted that Cap and SVG got some help from Tundra to keep making episodes on the regular.
Hey Cap and SVG! I’ve been playing DotA 2 since the magnificent times of Warcraft III. You’ve mentioned it before the “going back to the basics”. I look at hearthstone or WoW who actually made the “Classic” mode going to the very first version of it and it was incredibly popular and successful. What are your thoughts if Valve decided to do the same with DotA 2? Not for competitive purposes, of course, but launching a side project back to… I don’t know, version 6.20 and let the bugs be there and the inconsistency, but letting players choose whether to play the simplified version or the ultra complex one that DotA 2 is nowadays. If it worked so well for WoW, I think it would do as well for DotA. I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on this, even if it’s through a comment. Thank you for the content you guys are creating. The only shame is that is just twice a week. Keep up the hard work.
Entity could be a dark horse this year, they just won Fissure against a bunch of t1.5 teams and they just got Astini as coach, who over-performed last year at TI and can pull out some really big out-drafts at times.
Also, I think it is pretty clear that Valve is balancing around Pubs, and not Pro play. I think balancing for mid to high-level pubs is the correct decision, pro play is such a small facet of the game. But if you look at like Drow ranger getting nerfed in 7.36, that's clearly motivated by ranked and not tournaments. You don't want to balance around the bottom 50% of the playerbase but you do want to balance around the upper 25% mostly. The upper 25% of pubs are in between pros and the majority of the playerbase so that's where they should be looking.
1. Nerdy and outspoken pos 1 2. Nerdy and trollish pos 2 3. Nerdy and ragey pos 3 4. Nerdy and silent pos 4 5. Nerdy and conformist pos 5 6. Nerdy and analytic coach You got a dream team! My point, nerds are focused and are just smarter than normal people. Also, nerdy manager. 🤓
You may want to put a couple episodes on Cap's channel letting people know that you are moving over to Tundras channel! I didn't find out until now, 9 days after the first Tundra episode!
This is a simplification but I do wonder if Falcon's won't be cursed by the infamous "TI Curse" where the team that wins everything doesn't win TI (See: Gaimin last year).
I don't think it's a curse. The reason why gaimin not winning because they depend on 1 or 2 very good players. They can win lesser tourneys. But when it comes to big ones, every team already studied their play, then shutdown those 1 or 2 This could happen to falcon too. But, the problem is there are too many good play. Their mid and offlane are wrecking havoc, carry farming shouldn't be ignored too, heck even their supports are freaking sneaky. So even tho other teams already studied them, it's too hard to execute. This is similar with TSpirit. I am not a fan of trashtalk and toxic play style, but man, I have to admit that falcon is good. I kinda expect china region have answer for these unbeatable Tspirit falcon, but valve doto just break their pace to raise up with this patch Doto 3 beta drop
Clearly not most of their heroes left untouched and even buffed. It's like valve is serving ti on a silver platter for Falcons to take. Hope things get balanced out cus seeing Falcons in finals is making me sick.
but actually on the pro scene buff nerf topic.... i think it has showed that with the previous patch where things werent changed much. the pro scene still changed with tournaments where counters to things that were strong the previous tournament or something new that is broken is found without changes, so even amongst the pros there are players that are able to work with the patch... and then there are some that maybe just try to copy whats best and complain. because even now when you watch some games chen doesnt need to be banned or picked. because both the better teams know that they both can counter it well enough
Betboom has had good series against falcons. They haven't beaten them yet but in their last matchup we're very close to victory and basically lost to some poor spellcasting being up by 15k against a chen lineup in game 1. Also in the Birmingham finals games 1 and 2 were very competitive. It feels like they are close and need that last step to break through. That kind of thing usually happens quite suddenly in sports.
really hope that they are able to field an audience for that 5 days or something i feel many people still enjoy watching. and tickets wise its still sold decently cause scalpers will buy them.
Agreed that Spirit have some ability to power up when they are really feeling it, but at the same time they are such a threatening team you are scared to play against them. OG played a bunch of mind games during their first win but again Ana was truly a god of Dota in his time, as well as Jerax. Two of the greatest players of all time crucially with play styles that fit with each other. Falcons are hungry. You look at the players on this team and you can feel the angsty need to prove themselves the best. Crit is playing out of his mind again and Ammar has that annoying ability to tilt his opponents out of existence.
I think the new setup for TI sets teams up for more dominant runs like Spirit's in ti2023, the 5 team group stage instead of 8 team group stage and 'seeding' games mean as a good team you're going to see relatively easy matchups for you until you reach the upper bracket semifinals. I think in ti 2023 the best team in Spirit's group was Entity or 9Pandas, who were both 4-4. Then their seeding decider was Shopify, who went 2-6 in their group, then they played VP in the upper bracket quarter-finals, who came 4th in their group and were 3-5. I don't want to discredit Spirit because they were clearly the best team at the TI by an absolute mile, but I do think that the new TI format means we dont see the best teams face each other as much as they should and that leads to less competitive looking tournaments.
as a viewer, i prefer format where top team didnt eliminate each other early on. I dont want to see a boring stomp last day/grand final like most of the big tournament this year
I think OG's first TI was purely off the back off the Fly/N0tail darama. Say what you want, that shit hurt them personally both and both wanted to prove themselves after that. And its not like they were not good players, but the clearly the chemistry not working. The split was ugly but much needed. Glad one half successed if not the other.
Do you think Tundra will swap Ramdog for Saber? I have not seen Ramzes have any just decent games in the latest tournament, but I am not an analyst for a reason
Og and secret are kinda the same, secret definitely had some games they looked like they would lose but when it comes to the end game they win. Just like og. Og never won the lanes but would souley make it to the end game and out play the enemy
i think that Valve wanted to make the pros be celebrities. But they realised that most of them if not all, they dont have that mentality. They are not like NBA players that are used to exposure and the press and stuff like that. I mean 99/100 dota players are wearing flipflops and sweat pants with even brushing their hair. All i m saying is that they are not as marketable as Valve or the advertisers would want them to. So i d say, from a bussiness perspective it would make sense to stop focusing on the pro scene and trying other ways to improve the appeal of the game
who makes a 20 minute podcast in this day and age, give me 12 hour of theese guys talking shit. honestly when they had those pauses in dreamlague it was more fun than the games
OG realized like :Guys, we can't win majors and TI, so we winning TIs and become millionaires. IT's too much stress, if we try to win everything and we lose some games by trying 100% those guys will have advantage against us in TI where the money and glory. So they show up to TI, shaker is back, ench is super back, axe and we win. If there was no pandemic story repeating one more time, before game changes too much. So it's 2021 and Yatoro's morp was owning at qualies, I remember watching them and be like :These guys are pretty good! Meanwhile OG lost momentum, some roster changes again but Spirit gave them full respect. After TI Yatoro said we didn't considered ourselves contenders before we beat them. If we beat them - it's legit, they're the champions!(after 2 full years). Then they lost their Topson, ppl were like - You're not winning again and they were right. Then Spirit became full OG, retreat, focus, practice, show up, clean up. I mean we watched some crazy good teams this year - Liquid, GG but Spirit were just another level. Warding, priorities, power spikes, running at them together (just like peak OG). So Spirit became the new OG and Falcons are the new GG. They get mad and toxic when beaten, both incredibly good but lacking the character to win TI. It's Spirit again like 90%, or it's some team that breaks their curse - mb Liquid. I mean they got amazing fortitude and it led them to consistency. They always fully professional and calm and not letting it into their head. It got put to them by media because it was huge talking point which obviously sells stories. So they have the best chance to break their curse - like 10%. Thats why GG failed at the very end of the road - Quin need to not lose his character. He is incresibly skilled, leader but needs to play free and with a smile even when things go wrong and they bully/tilt you, while he was so tight because after winning so much it gets to you and becomes a reaposibility. This gives your opponents to ruin you when you lose by giving 100%. Still I don't give them a chance this year, need more time to reach Spirit and Liquid fortitude.
I dont agree with svg this time valve cant just look at the pros to make changes in the game they would look at the average game play of a hero across-the-board because the timber saw on atf and malrine for example they are the best in the world with this hero what they can do might look op but only a few people in the entire world could make the hero look that op so if valve nerf timbersaw the average pub player which is the majority of dota 2 players will find timbersaw to be trash and not be picked at all if valve make changes to herosbbased on the best players i the world the pros thn they would lose the average gamers which is the majority and the ge will die hence the pro scene will too because ti would be like 20k prize pool
Congrats again on getting the podcast picked up by Tundra! Always enjoy listening, the most entertaining eSports podcast
they are the walmart we say things
Thank you!
Avery’s Shopify rant *chef’s kiss*
He stop the atrocious sugarcoating of some casters and finally pointed out the real problem of SR, you cant win with a complete washed up pos 1
Nouns kicking SR out of Riyadh a couple of days after this podcast dropped here was just clinical timing.
gets a ''sponsor'' and instantly a intro?! PRODUCTION VALUES
I really enjoy watching this kind of podcast. Hopefully more contents like this are coming again soon.
This video aged well as nouns beat Shopify at the Riyadh Masters qualifiers.
SVG going off on SR is what i am here for!! Seriously Bulba And RTZ should retire and give way for fresh dota in NA.
hard to dump a stable monthly cashflow without putting any effort.
fresh dota in NA?? I dare you, give me one up and coming prodigy from NA, name just a single one
I like the long format podcast format, close to an hour
The production value of the intro! Love it!
19:29 love the SaVaGe rant
Loved the insights into Mind Control at SR. Would like to hear more of this sort of stuff (though not necessarily with all the sass :P. Given all the the personnel changes its hard to keep up with all the specific players and teams, what their play styles and personalities are like and how these might be working together).
With all respect to Tundra and the lovely editor putting these videos together: don't stop SVG when he's cooking!
Loving this podcast and delighted that Cap and SVG got some help from Tundra to keep making episodes on the regular.
Good podcast episode and the patch discussion!
2nd time listening, interesting insights, I'll be listening to the following ones.
Lol that was my comment on Reddit, thanks for the shoutout Avery!
I like the story of chen being banned for 6 months. It is long enough for me to know that is super interessting when someone doesn't ban it.
Hey Cap and SVG! I’ve been playing DotA 2 since the magnificent times of Warcraft III. You’ve mentioned it before the “going back to the basics”. I look at hearthstone or WoW who actually made the “Classic” mode going to the very first version of it and it was incredibly popular and successful.
What are your thoughts if Valve decided to do the same with DotA 2? Not for competitive purposes, of course, but launching a side project back to… I don’t know, version 6.20 and let the bugs be there and the inconsistency, but letting players choose whether to play the simplified version or the ultra complex one that DotA 2 is nowadays.
If it worked so well for WoW, I think it would do as well for DotA.
I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on this, even if it’s through a comment.
Thank you for the content you guys are creating. The only shame is that is just twice a week. Keep up the hard work.
+1, I would like to know ths too
love the podcast pls do this weeklyy
Entity could be a dark horse this year, they just won Fissure against a bunch of t1.5 teams and they just got Astini as coach, who over-performed last year at TI and can pull out some really big out-drafts at times.
Also, I think it is pretty clear that Valve is balancing around Pubs, and not Pro play. I think balancing for mid to high-level pubs is the correct decision, pro play is such a small facet of the game. But if you look at like Drow ranger getting nerfed in 7.36, that's clearly motivated by ranked and not tournaments. You don't want to balance around the bottom 50% of the playerbase but you do want to balance around the upper 25% mostly. The upper 25% of pubs are in between pros and the majority of the playerbase so that's where they should be looking.
1. Nerdy and outspoken pos 1
2. Nerdy and trollish pos 2
3. Nerdy and ragey pos 3
4. Nerdy and silent pos 4
5. Nerdy and conformist pos 5
6. Nerdy and analytic coach
You got a dream team!
My point, nerds are focused and are just smarter than normal people.
Also, nerdy manager. 🤓
Amazing! More Cap and more SVG ❤️
Great work Priscilla. Cap and SVG are doing ok too i guess.
💜
who's Priscilla? genuinely curious, is she the video editor?
love this podcast!
Ramzes? Really? That's the best pos3 you could find? God have mercy
the diffrence cap is aluding to at 8:00 in my opinion is just the difference between playing for tempo and playing for late game supremacy
Its funny that Tundra wants you to keep these to 20 minutes; i feel like they could be longer and you could clip them up after the fact
You may want to put a couple episodes on Cap's channel letting people know that you are moving over to Tundras channel! I didn't find out until now, 9 days after the first Tundra episode!
This is a simplification but I do wonder if Falcon's won't be cursed by the infamous "TI Curse" where the team that wins everything doesn't win TI (See: Gaimin last year).
Also shoutouts to the Shopify Rant sequel we always needed
I don't think it's a curse. The reason why gaimin not winning because they depend on 1 or 2 very good players. They can win lesser tourneys. But when it comes to big ones, every team already studied their play, then shutdown those 1 or 2
This could happen to falcon too. But, the problem is there are too many good play. Their mid and offlane are wrecking havoc, carry farming shouldn't be ignored too, heck even their supports are freaking sneaky. So even tho other teams already studied them, it's too hard to execute. This is similar with TSpirit.
I am not a fan of trashtalk and toxic play style, but man, I have to admit that falcon is good. I kinda expect china region have answer for these unbeatable Tspirit falcon, but valve doto just break their pace to raise up with this patch Doto 3 beta drop
Clearly not most of their heroes left untouched and even buffed. It's like valve is serving ti on a silver platter for Falcons to take. Hope things get balanced out cus seeing Falcons in finals is making me sick.
1. They are afraid of them
2. They are good
Svg is spitting facts about shopify
but actually on the pro scene buff nerf topic.... i think it has showed that with the previous patch where things werent changed much. the pro scene still changed with tournaments where counters to things that were strong the previous tournament or something new that is broken is found without changes, so even amongst the pros there are players that are able to work with the patch... and then there are some that maybe just try to copy whats best and complain. because even now when you watch some games chen doesnt need to be banned or picked. because both the better teams know that they both can counter it well enough
Betboom has had good series against falcons. They haven't beaten them yet but in their last matchup we're very close to victory and basically lost to some poor spellcasting being up by 15k against a chen lineup in game 1. Also in the Birmingham finals games 1 and 2 were very competitive. It feels like they are close and need that last step to break through. That kind of thing usually happens quite suddenly in sports.
Thank You
really hope that they are able to field an audience for that 5 days or something i feel many people still enjoy watching. and tickets wise its still sold decently cause scalpers will buy them.
Short answer, they play a fuckton of pubs. They just know what works for winning games. Even when clowning a little bit.
They also young team with ATF and malrine
Avery ranting is music to my ears
Cap & SVG on top, best podcasters in dota
Damn i love SVG.
excellent!
Holy moly, svg just go based talking about shopify
I wish mc the best
Agreed that Spirit have some ability to power up when they are really feeling it, but at the same time they are such a threatening team you are scared to play against them.
OG played a bunch of mind games during their first win but again Ana was truly a god of Dota in his time, as well as Jerax. Two of the greatest players of all time crucially with play styles that fit with each other.
Falcons are hungry. You look at the players on this team and you can feel the angsty need to prove themselves the best. Crit is playing out of his mind again and Ammar has that annoying ability to tilt his opponents out of existence.
Thundra any change to Qualifiers?
They are number 6 in the ept rakings and already qualified to Riyadh Masters.
Keep the podcasts to an hour! please! a podcast is not 20 minutes long! Such a shame they had to cut this short
GOATS ARE HERE
wow i assumed this was on caps channel
I think the new setup for TI sets teams up for more dominant runs like Spirit's in ti2023, the 5 team group stage instead of 8 team group stage and 'seeding' games mean as a good team you're going to see relatively easy matchups for you until you reach the upper bracket semifinals. I think in ti 2023 the best team in Spirit's group was Entity or 9Pandas, who were both 4-4. Then their seeding decider was Shopify, who went 2-6 in their group, then they played VP in the upper bracket quarter-finals, who came 4th in their group and were 3-5. I don't want to discredit Spirit because they were clearly the best team at the TI by an absolute mile, but I do think that the new TI format means we dont see the best teams face each other as much as they should and that leads to less competitive looking tournaments.
as a viewer, i prefer format where top team didnt eliminate each other early on. I dont want to see a boring stomp last day/grand final like most of the big tournament this year
I think OG's first TI was purely off the back off the Fly/N0tail darama. Say what you want, that shit hurt them personally both and both wanted to prove themselves after that. And its not like they were not good players, but the clearly the chemistry not working. The split was ugly but much needed. Glad one half successed if not the other.
Do you think Tundra will swap Ramdog for Saber? I have not seen Ramzes have any just decent games in the latest tournament, but I am not an analyst for a reason
Avory has a real beef with ex EG stack lmao
Please don't make these 10-20 minutes, I'd be gutted if they were shorter
Nice!
Nahaz back?
Can someone make Bulba disappear, please?
We all know that the team plays good whole year never wins TI.
Don’t be hype by the current strong teams. Team Spirit is the only active team that shows up when it matters the most. I don’t live in the moment.
Og and secret are kinda the same, secret definitely had some games they looked like they would lose but when it comes to the end game they win. Just like og. Og never won the lanes but would souley make it to the end game and out play the enemy
Shopify has Skem now, he's a captain/coach in SEA. I dont understand why you nerds only mentioned MC lol
doesnt matter... skem is pos 5.
pos 5 not always shine in late game.
while you have pos 1 who can't carry his entire team.
do you even have a chance ?
i think that Valve wanted to make the pros be celebrities. But they realised that most of them if not all, they dont have that mentality. They are not like NBA players that are used to exposure and the press and stuff like that. I mean 99/100 dota players are wearing flipflops and sweat pants with even brushing their hair. All i m saying is that they are not as marketable as Valve or the advertisers would want them to. So i d say, from a bussiness perspective it would make sense to stop focusing on the pro scene and trying other ways to improve the appeal of the game
who makes a 20 minute podcast in this day and age, give me 12 hour of theese guys talking shit. honestly when they had those pauses in dreamlague it was more fun than the games
1 HOUR WOOO
10-20min what???? Why? Go 2 hours, six times a week!
OG realized like :Guys, we can't win majors and TI, so we winning TIs and become millionaires. IT's too much stress, if we try to win everything and we lose some games by trying 100% those guys will have advantage against us in TI where the money and glory.
So they show up to TI, shaker is back, ench is super back, axe and we win. If there was no pandemic story repeating one more time, before game changes too much.
So it's 2021 and Yatoro's morp was owning at qualies, I remember watching them and be like :These guys are pretty good! Meanwhile OG lost momentum, some roster changes again but Spirit gave them full respect. After TI Yatoro said we didn't considered ourselves contenders before we beat them. If we beat them - it's legit, they're the champions!(after 2 full years).
Then they lost their Topson, ppl were like - You're not winning again and they were right.
Then Spirit became full OG, retreat, focus, practice, show up, clean up. I mean we watched some crazy good teams this year - Liquid, GG but Spirit were just another level.
Warding, priorities, power spikes, running at them together (just like peak OG).
So Spirit became the new OG and Falcons are the new GG.
They get mad and toxic when beaten, both incredibly good but lacking the character to win TI. It's Spirit again like 90%, or it's some team that breaks their curse - mb Liquid. I mean they got amazing fortitude and it led them to consistency. They always fully professional and calm and not letting it into their head. It got put to them by media because it was huge talking point which obviously sells stories. So they have the best chance to break their curse - like 10%. Thats why GG failed at the very end of the road - Quin need to not lose his character. He is incresibly skilled, leader but needs to play free and with a smile even when things go wrong and they bully/tilt you, while he was so tight because after winning so much it gets to you and becomes a reaposibility. This gives your opponents to ruin you when you lose by giving 100%. Still I don't give them a chance this year, need more time to reach Spirit and Liquid fortitude.
I dont agree with svg this time valve cant just look at the pros to make changes in the game they would look at the average game play of a hero across-the-board because the timber saw on atf and malrine for example they are the best in the world with this hero what they can do might look op but only a few people in the entire world could make the hero look that op so if valve nerf timbersaw the average pub player which is the majority of dota 2 players will find timbersaw to be trash and not be picked at all if valve make changes to herosbbased on the best players i the world the pros thn they would lose the average gamers which is the majority and the ge will die hence the pro scene will too because ti would be like 20k prize pool
xg will win ti/riyadh/both simple as
El trashico :D
I honestly think the pro dota2 should be played and balanced on a separate client.
poggers
Can someone make Bulba disappear, please?