DIALED S2-EP21: Fine Tune Your Suspension Using Bracketing | FOX
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- When tuning mountain bike suspension, it's important to record your settings and implement a system as you make changes. Jordi runs through the system and method he uses to tune setups.
Download the Bracketing Spreadsheet Here: drive.google.c...
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Dialed S2E21 | Fine Tune Your Suspension Using Bracketing
best advice i was given years a go. If you don't know where to start, start somewhere.
Biggest improvement I got from my new fox set up was by removing a volume spacer on the fork. The rear shock was tuned almost perfectly upon getting frame (SC Tallboy). Ive been riding 25 years (using fox products for 18) and this is by far the best suspension set up Ive ever had.
Thanks for sharing and watching Paul! Happy to hear this and have you in the FOX family👊
Going out this morning to bracket my new 2021 Fox 34 GRIP2. Review coming soon to the channel.
-Nick 😃👍
Just spent the entire day bracketing both my bikes for the first time. WOW was I way off. It felt ok so I just went with it, but when I took the time to focus on what was going on instead of just riding it totally changed the bikes. Thanks Jordi.
by far the most practical and straight forward explanation in how to properly set up your forks and shock ,gonna try this on my fork and shocks and see if it differs much from my current set up
Cheers! Glad to hear this, let us know what you come up with! 👊
Great one 👍🤘 I watch friends say... But they set my bike up when I bought it 🤔 Part of the fun is tinkering and trying stuff 👊
I like to go ride my bike and figure stuff out. I have a sheet but I am going to print this one out, too. Thanks guys!
We like to ride bikes and figure stuff out too 👊 #dialed
I am a big FOX fan and am getting into the Mtn Bike world now. I can 100% agree with this information, being a factory test development driver. I spent years in Japan learning how to test shocks and tires on prototype vehicles. It is a skill that takes a lot of time to master, but this video is a great starting point for many. I always say only change one thing at a time, repeat speed, surfaces, inputs etc. and you will see differences. One important area I stress is overall balance front to rear. I don't have the Mtn Bike experience testing yet, but in a vehicle it makes huge difference. I can tell you at 100mph in a Trophy Truck going over the San Felipe whoops running the FOX shocks is incredible! Amazing products all the way around! Keep up the good work!
Hi Joe, sounds like we should get you on the show! Welcome to the mtb world, thanks for sharing and watching, happy to have you on FOX! 👊
@@FOXFACTORY Yeah, that would be cool to be on your show to talk about how off-road racing in a truck relates to mountain bikes. We can also get into detail about testing methods and terminology.
Awsome video as always , I have learned so much about suspension by watching these videos thank you, and thanks for all the time and effort you put in to doing these videos 👊👊
Cheers Peter, we do it for you guys, it means a lot hearing this, glad to hear you are finding these helpful 🙏
FOX I was always afraid to change anything but with all you explanations I have nothing to worry about 👍
@@peterbeer4746 no need to be afraid when you've got it all written down, glad your feeling more #dialed 👊👊
I have such an excel sheet on my phone. Have additional data like tire, tire psi, trail condition/type, rider condition and a remarks column. And I record this every ride for the past few years.
I'm a suspension tech, so that might explain things a bit. Lol.
Thats awesome Enoch, Jordi's #1 tip is write it down! Happy to have suspension techs like yourself tuning in, thanks for sharing and watching brother! 👊
I used to help race athletes with bike setup and tuning. So knowing how different trail conditions and how fatigued or injury affect the direction for tuning/setup was important. Most athletes don't know which tuning/setup direction to go to so I rely on my own notes for direction. This DIALED series helps me a lot watching how Jordi deals with different riders and tracks.
Nice explanation guys, I note everything on my phone after seeing the bracketing vid Jordi did last year. 👍 The damper rebound demo was very interesting
Nice sheets, im copying that, thank you!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching Sebastian, happy bracketing 👊
The best for understanding and STARTING somewhere on learning about fork and shocks.
I've been looking for guides to set up my new bike's suspension and I've heard the bracketing term several times in my research. This is the best explanation/guide I've found! I wish I could like this video multiple times!
I did this when i got my new bike. I went through 10 different settings then i was like i can’t be bothered any more, i just want to ride. Then i decided to add a volume spacer in my shock so 4 more setting written down. Its pretty fun then i get tired of concentrating while counting the clicks cos i found one click or 2 makes a big difference in the bounce when landing a drop. I got one more setting to play with based on jared graves low speed settings but at the moment , it feels good
Thanks for sharing and watching, glad to hear its feeling good. 👊
I downloaded the bracketing sheet. This is going to be a huge help when I ride light or when I ride full pack. I've never written it down. Thanks!
Never written it down?! 😱 Happy bracketing!
That’s a nice explanation and get track on adjusting fork settings. I just bought a fox 34 factory grip2. And I will do what you have teach Thanks for sharing. 👍🚵🏼♂️
Nice table 📝 and thanks for the tips Jordi👍... looks like a laboratory competition work 📊 📈 always we want to the better use of ours shocks and forks 👌. Great progarmme guys💯% !!
Cheers brother. Thanks for watching and sharing 👊
Great video, loved the tip about how slow rebound can feel like compression damping
I prefer to tune my suspension off the numbers I get from my daily astrological reading.
🤣
Excellent setting video following on from some of Jordies previous videos. Love the fox gear have a 2017 40 upgraded to grip2 and x2 on my V10 On my Bronson have float dpx2. Have just ordered a 180mm 38e 29 fork for my 2020 kenevo to convert it to 29inch.
Quality of video and sound is much better with no screen shots. Good job👍👍
Cheers Barry, nice quiver of bikes you've got going on! Happy to have you in the FOX family! 👊
This bracketing concept is excellent! Love it guys!
Did this recently on my Fox 36 Grip2 and it made a huge difference. Feels like I have more grip and I can charge through rough sections that previously gave me bad arm pump.
Thank you so much for including the spreadsheet
Just bought a bike with a DPX2 elite and a 36 grip II, it s going to be useful 👌🦊 thanks !
The 3 🐻...love it!!!
Appreciate the content.
On the dhx2. What do you guy think on the theory of running HSR fully closed and playing with LSR? On the Vorsprung channel they explain the overlap between both adjustments.
I feel it works great for jumps and I just open 3 clicks HSR for rocky and technical Enduro tracks. I will do some braketing now with this technique to try to get HSR more open.
Great video guys! I'm super fan
we've answered this many times before, but i'm guessing you could answer this on your own.
I look forward to these videos every week. That tune is so catchy.
Cheers Travis! thanks for sharing and watching, let us know if there is any topics you'd like us to cover!
@@FOXFACTORY Maybe a video on how frequent you should service your fork/shock for the average rider, and what servicing involves (equipment, setup, etc)?
@@travisbooth7037 Thanks for sharing, this would be a helpful episode for everyone, we'll add it to the list 👊
Great video. Just what i was looking for.
next week I get my new Fox36 Grip2 Fork. With my Fit4 Fork setup is really easy, hope its not that difficult to setup the Grip2 fork
Setting up the Grip2 36 is just as easy, start with having a look over this setup guide it will give you a nice baseline to start from. www.ridefox.com/dl/bike/my21/605-00-216_RevA-36-Tuning-Guide.pdf
Love that car seat analogy lol
The effort you guys are putting in is insane and is insanely helpful so Thank you so much. Just wondering what sag u would recommend for a downhill bike? Cheers 👍🏽
25-30%
Jordi mentioned that unless the fork or shock has been serviced or maintained, it would be useless to try and tune it for proper performance. Could you guys do an episode where you talk specifically about fork and shock maintenance that riders can do themselves. Thanks
The procedure to do it may be simple. But feeling the difference on the trails is another story, at least for me. I've done some bracketing on my home trails when I get my new bike one year ago, but didn't feel any difference on the HSC/LSC circuits, even from fully open to fully closed. It's like: "hmmm it seems that I felt something but I'm not sure". I'm on rockschox suspension on my current bike (maybe for not so long but anyway I have to deal with it for now) and the only thing that I feel is rebound. I took the bike to my local shop and they didn't find any issue. And today I'm still in the same situation I would say. It's a shame cause I love setting my bike.
Tom, thanks for sharing, we understand feeling the differences in adjustment can be tricky, especially if this is is new to you. Choosing the right section of trail to test on is important, you want a section of trail that offers some technicality with some mixed speeds but not overly tech or fast, it also needs to be easily repeatable. Last season we shot a bracketing test session with Jordi, be sure to check it out if you missed it, hope this helps 👊 ua-cam.com/video/CM0lDN80miQ/v-deo.html
@@FOXFACTORY yeah I'll give it another try and maybe more time, who knows 🤷♂️. By the way the video on the link is perfect because it's the same bike as mine lol 😆
@@endurorider974 Awesome, if you are a similar weight to Connor, give those settings a try or something close to them, he's been loving those settings for the past year!
if you cant tell a difference then i guess it doesn't matter?
@@jordicortes4993 you got it 😅. That's a bit frustating. And I'm way lighter than Connor (143 lbs).
I love these videos, thank you so much for putting them out! Can you also put out the oil volume chart and air spring service (and air spring travel adjust) procedures for the new 38 *wink wink*.
I’m totally on board with setting sag and measuring the exact mm, but why can’t there be a measurement scale built into the shock, even if it’s like the one RockShox uses?
RS has the patent. For reals.
Thanks jordi
It’s that run 6 where I need professional help. 😂
haha can't help you there 🤣
Hi Guys, again, loving the series. Just wondering if you'd recommend fork or shock first when it comes to bracketing? I'm assuming the best way is going to be bracketing in four steps going front - back, front-back or back-front but which first? Cheers, thanks again for the show
Cheers Daniel! Start with the fork, then do the shock. Do not go back and forth. Here is a link to last seasons bracketing video ua-cam.com/video/CM0lDN80miQ/v-deo.html
i love your channel!
Cheers Eric! 🙏 Thanks for watching & sharing! 👊
Why does no one mention suspension telemetry? It's to the point where there are options available to you financially if you can afford Fox suspension!
We use it regularly when testing and developing, we even shared some of this last season on Dialed with Aaron Gwin, which can be seen here 🤓 ua-cam.com/video/XFAGvhZPpyY/v-deo.html
What about the recommendations on your homepage? How about using them as a starting point?
If you are referring to our setup guides, yes they are are a great place to get started! 👊
I am curious about one thing - increasing air pressure vs. adding more compression. Is there any general decisioning factor, when to apply one rather than the other one? Thanks.
I came here to learn, but psi affects both compression and rebound whereas compression is just that. Adding psi will slow compression and speed up rebound. Adding compression will just slow compression
On my 2021 160mm fox 36 it’s super difficult to feel the clicks with my grip 2 for LSC, HSD and LSD. I think the detents aren’t stiff enough. I also notice the dampening settings will move with each other throwing off one or the other. High speed compression is fine.
I’ve been adjusting my suspension but I’m not sure what good sag feels like, i hope this process helps.
Tech question, are the same fluids always used in the fork? Wondering if cold / hot locations affect performance or if standard air / rebound / compression changes are enough to offset the change?
we've answered this a few times. better get watching!
@@jordicortes4993 rubbish weather forecast this weekend in Scotland so I'll start at Ep1 😁
Recently I've heard people say that your high speed and low speed adjustments should be in similar positions (like halfway high/halfway low) and not (for instance) open high, closed low. Is there any truth to that? I remember an older video on bracketing where Jordy pinned the rider's HSC at nearly open and LSC was more like halfway.
When you're doing bracketing, how long of a course do you run for a single "run"? Is a couple minutes with a single descent enough or would you typically have a rider go a few miles?
I run my rebound in the rear 2 clicks out from fully closed at all times. Crabapple Hits is a breeze....
How do you interpret the feelings you get from a fork?
For instance I had a fox van 36 from 2012, by chance I got it to a good place muddling my way through tho i was a lot slower back then.
I then had a 2015 pike rc3 that was okay and a 2018 pike rc that just felt totally unsupportive or harsh on chattery stuff depending on pressure, I believe that it was due to lack of high speed compression adjustment.
I have just sold the bike after trying some ohlins coil rxf evo forks for a few rides. Didn't really get a chance to set them up fully but they were considerably better off the bat. I'm waiting for a new meta am frame to arrive and I've ordered a 2020 factory x2 and 36 for it.
My questions are. how much do the changes you make to one parameter affect other parameters?
Often people will Up pressure and Slow rebound to compensate. Or Remove a token and increase pressure by 5psi?
So how do you choose to add a token over adding more pressure or increasing compression damping or opening rebound circut more? And can you achieve similar results with a combination of wildly different settings for the same rider and fork?
I got a brand new bike a year ago and it came with the 2017 fox 36 performance (fit4 damper) and it has quite a bit of stiction when I slowly cycle the fork up and down, but when when I do it really fast it is pretty smooth. It has been like this since day one. I also serviced the lowers and the air spring two weeks ago and it didn't really help. I feel like this is having an effect on the fork's small bump sensitivity. Also, my rear shock does not do this at all. Idk if this is true, but could it possibly be because of tight bushings? Pls help.
Neil, sorry to hear your 36 is not feeling dialled, its hard to diagnose through UA-cam comments. Did you have the fork serviced at a FOX service center? They would pickup on anything needing attention. We have since released the improved Grip damper which may work better for you and you can easily update your existing fork. Hope this helps, thanks for watching and sharing 👊
@@FOXFACTORY Even some of your top end forks come with the fit4 damper. Surely it couldn't be my damper? Did you guys change anything from 2017 to 2021 for the fit4 dampers to drastically improve them?
Use more grease on the wipers of the lower leg. This changes small bump sensitivity a lot
Like we said, it's hard to diagnose here; however the Grip damper has less stiction than Fit4 based on its design. Fit4 works best for xc/trail applications whereas Grip works best for enduro/FR/DH applications. This is a fun video The Lost Co. made explaining the differences in our dampers ua-cam.com/video/qRkuyj_B3Fk/v-deo.html 🤙
What do you think about using the shockwiz for help tuning your suspension?
it's another tool that can be used, nothing your brain can't figure out on your own 😉
How long should the test track be? Is 200m to short?
Is this a more accurate and beneficial way of tuning your suspension compared to purchasing a shock wiz and going down that road?
Yes
In the bracketing sheet is it no big deal for shock psi or is it missed?
Can compression be adjusted on a 2020 FLOAT DPX2 Performance? I have the SAG set I feel correctly and have the max amount of volume spacers in according to your website, but I am still bottoming out pretty easily.
Hey Jordi, are you counting clicks from fully open or fully closed?
We'll let Jordi answer this one for ya, assuming you're new to the Dialed Series, if so welcome! 👊
Im assuming its from closed but just checking
@@darrenroth628 correct, just playing with you Darren!
I've had those similar suspension setup sheets from 20 years ago 👍 still use them. 10:07 🤔 me thinks somebody might be watching Dave Moss... 😄👌
Yeah I absolutely disagree with 30% sag on a shock and 15% sag on a fork. And the main reason being; is that it creates an imbalance, front to rear to front. Maybe mountain bikes aren't as susceptible as dirt bikes and road race bikes but that is a huge Delta in percentage of rider sag. One of the problems with imbalance will show up under brake dive. Especially under hard braking. Just don't think that is a good setup for an average rider, pro riders sure, it's a different story they ride to compensate, they are at a different level. But giving out that advice for average punters I think it's not a good idea.
They are functionally completely different., and can’t be compared in any way to moto. Test for yourself with some good riders and let me know what you learn.
Do you set sag with the Compression off ?
Where did you buy that T-shirt Jordi? I want the same
artesempre.com/
Like to video of the #dialed of the new tabl periodic a for the test of positions #ridefox and suspension coprobation of the #foxdialed not fails in the thanks guy Jordi Cortés of Chile 🇨🇱 🤘😀🤘🚵🗣️sickeyeaa
Where does the difference in recommended sag between fork and shock come from (1:45)? Why not use 25-30% front and back?
because of weight transfer
I am a moron maybe, but the amount of clicks my 36 has doesn't seem to match the manual and setup always gets me confused. I still try the middle ground anyways.
I love the idea. But I always get physical pain when I see that the writing within excel sheets is not centred in each cell. I always tell my students that this almost as important as the content itself 😂
Count clicks from open or closed?
Count from closed
watch the video?
@@jordicortes4993 yup I am assuming from closed
3rd!
Can you share the file?
Found it, false alarm!
Second
Vorsprung's Bracketing explanation is much better than this I think ua-cam.com/video/E7veBt1Maj8/v-deo.html