This series is easily one of the best on UA-cam and has no doubt helped me get through Lockdown. Definitely got the knowledge to head to the trails when they reopen to properly Dial in the settings! Great work Fox!
This takes me back to my electrical apprenticeship looking after old overload oil filled dashpots! Used variable hole sizes for adjustment instead of shim stacks tho. Makes me want to take my shock apart which is prob bad news 😂
Amazing✨!! Wow this simulator push the shock in hard levelsJordi tell us "its basic" and work so well👍. The designer and denvelope ingenier were a genious! So Jordi and Jake when we knows thecgenious behind that brilliant product ?👌 Thank you guys for another nice programme!!
So to learning of the guy Jordi Cortés in the #dialed desarm the purpose of #ridefox of valves of the chock assembly #foxdialed thanks guy's. Saluds of chile 🇨🇱🤘😀♥️🚵
Thanks Jordi! As always breaking it down for us mere mortals:) I seem to remember more tuning with shim stacks in moto applications and older suspension. Is this more to do with changes to the piston and oil passages or just shock technology evolution? Is there still more shim tuning in moto shocks than MTB? I would assume the weight difference would change the affects. Keep this up guys it is awesome to learn from experts!!
I've got a fox Fork and Shock that are in need of service. I've been unable to identify the fork as of now, but I wanted to know what it was before I took it to a bike shop... my friend CLAIMS Jordi built it. A Santa Cruz Solo with some sort of shimmed down 36 but the axle is attached differently than other forks I've seen. Long shot but if you remember the bike and see this comment do you know what this fork is?? Thanks and cheers for the awesome content Fox!
I've seen split stacks commonly used in moto for forks that don't have separate high speed and low speed compression adjustments, to create some of that effect.
On the dyno, more so the data feedback. Is the critical damping ratio ever used to quantify anything in MTB. As in calculating the proportionate, integrative and derivative function of each stroke?
Is high speed damping (compression or rebound) only shaft speed or is displacement a factor as well? I am always curious on a trail descent with lots of little chundery rocks which is kicking in low or high speed?
So if you can create progression in a valve assembly by stacking big and small valves why don’t manufacturers do that with coil shocks which are inherently linear? Wouldn’t that be the best of both worlds? The small bump compliance of a coil but nine of the harsh bottom outs?
Good question. I think maybe because the valving is force vs velocity dependant as it has non compressible fluid going through it. Whereas the spring is force vs distance dependent. I had a radon with a coil and it had a specific tune for the bike but I could never get a good balance with a higher or lower spring yet I could with an air shock with volume spacers.
The response of the valves will not be proportional to the travel on the shock, but proportional to the speed the shaft is traveling. For that reason I think Jordi mentions that you always get the contrary to what you are looking for, in a configuration with stacked small and big valves, the shock will be on its point only at certain speeds, which will be then directly attached to the leverage ratio of the bike is installed in, making it now harder to tune.
But you could make it act on the high speed circuit or better make a separate circuit for the last few mm of the shock as a kind of “hydraulic bottom out”. I think EXT have something like that but I’m not sure it’s tunable.
@@themagicillusions Hydraulic bottom out will be differently than what you suggest on your first comment. Valving will have effect on the whole function of the travel thought the shock. You cannot go away doing circuits for everything. Bottom out effect is completely different than valve tuning, because of the area of effect of each one of them. Hy bottom out you can find it on Push ElevenSix shocks.
I have a question. You just show the shim stack and previously explained about VVC. Actually with a non-VVC system when you add HSC or HSR damping, do you restrict oil flow through the system? If so what's the difference with VVC? Doesn't it restrict oil flow as well? 🤔 . It's interesting even if I'm a little bit confused and didn't found clear explanation about it
VVC is how you adjust damping levels as opposed to some other systems (changing shimstack preload for example). The part doing the actual damping is still the same in either case.
Well, he keeps calling shims valves so we are all confused. The piston acts as the valve.. which releases the highspeed fluid to the shims to assist in dampening. This is more common on rebound with only a low speed valve. The VVC is about the worst design ever invented unless you can change them out for different flow rates. Watch some MX fork suspension videos, they go way more into detail than any MTB I've found. Vorsprung has some decent videos too.
I got a brand new bike a year ago and it came with the 2017 fox 36 performance (fit4 damper) and it has quite a bit of stiction when I slowly cycle the fork up and down, but when when I do it really fast it is pretty smooth. It has been like this since day one. I also serviced the lowers and the air spring two weeks ago and it didn't really help. I feel like this is having an effect on the fork's small bump sensitivity. Also, my rear shock does not do this at all. Idk if this is true, but could it possibly be because of tight bushings? Pls help. Rider weight with kit: 190 lbs Fork PSI and sag reading: 80 psi at 25% sag HSC/LSC: I don't have these options. Out of the "firm", "medium", and "open" settings that I do have, I have always left it at "open". High and low speed rebound: I just have one rebound knob (which is probably low speed rebound) and it is 3 clicks away from being fully open. volume spacers: The fork came with one volume spacer and I've left it at that.
Just a quick question, as I grabed my bike's handelbars today, the fork stanchions , (2017 Fox 34 factory) just popped up like if they were stucked a couple of inches into the lowers and suddenly gotten lose. Any ideia what that might have been? The Fork felt harsh afterwards
For all those kids when I was younger that laughed while I was taking advanced hydraulics at age 13, and this is why folks, it’s the same shit only air over oil so it gives a precise amount other than oil that doesn’t compress easily and would just basically be a hard tail without air.
Can’t wait till they figure out how to add bottom out s to a shock like an slowdown at the end of the stroke on a tractor cylinder it has a step that when it hits the head seal it restricts the flow causing it to slow way down before it hits the cushion.
This series is easily one of the best on UA-cam and has no doubt helped me get through Lockdown. Definitely got the knowledge to head to the trails when they reopen to properly Dial in the settings! Great work Fox!
"Progression Of Flex" Awesome statement! Thanks A lot helping me get a better understanding of this awesome subject.
yeah a new episode... best marketing ever => just got my new 2021 Fox Float X2
loving the fact you guys are still brining great relevant content during all this mess :) keep it up
This takes me back to my electrical apprenticeship looking after old overload oil filled dashpots! Used variable hole sizes for adjustment instead of shim stacks tho. Makes me want to take my shock apart which is prob bad news 😂
This is so good, setting the bar high for shock education! thanks guys
love the content and coming from the enduro motorcycle world to mtbing this is very familiar. Your explanations are well said..
Is there any way you could go over the new Marzocchi bomber z2 and what differentiates it from the fox 34. Thanks guys.
Those are the coolest pliers I've ever seen.
Amazing✨!! Wow this simulator push the shock in hard levelsJordi tell us "its basic" and work so well👍. The designer and denvelope ingenier were a genious! So Jordi and Jake when we knows thecgenious behind that brilliant product ?👌
Thank you guys for another nice programme!!
You guys are awesome...Thank you for doing these videos!
So to learning of the guy Jordi Cortés in the #dialed desarm the purpose of #ridefox of valves of the chock assembly #foxdialed thanks guy's. Saluds of chile 🇨🇱🤘😀♥️🚵
Thanks Jordi! As always breaking it down for us mere mortals:) I seem to remember more tuning with shim stacks in moto applications and older suspension. Is this more to do with changes to the piston and oil passages or just shock technology evolution? Is there still more shim tuning in moto shocks than MTB? I would assume the weight difference would change the affects. Keep this up guys it is awesome to learn from experts!!
Ehhh...bikes are very different. Also twin tube shocks offer a far wider range of adjustment
Now that I’ve got my sag set I just need some knipex pliers and I’m ready to tune the world.
You guys should bring Loris to set up his suspension as Jordi explains to him how to, I'm sure he misses Loris ;p
😂 Or a special in which Loris explains how (he thinks) suspension works
Or the other way round. Loris helps Jordi to setup suspensions.
mopedvieh ....using real words not animal noises
I've got a fox Fork and Shock that are in need of service. I've been unable to identify the fork as of now, but I wanted to know what it was before I took it to a bike shop... my friend CLAIMS Jordi built it. A Santa Cruz Solo with some sort of shimmed down 36 but the axle is attached differently than other forks I've seen. Long shot but if you remember the bike and see this comment do you know what this fork is?? Thanks and cheers for the awesome content Fox!
Love the intro song (and also EVERY episode).......... best series about at the moment. got a name or artist for the song?
Wizards mythical knowledge now for everyone
I've always been skeptical of valves. That's why I chose the trombone.
I've seen split stacks commonly used in moto for forks that don't have separate high speed and low speed compression adjustments, to create some of that effect.
I keep wondering whether the spices on the backround wall of the van have ever been used 🤔
Best suspension Company :D
On the dyno, more so the data feedback. Is the critical damping ratio ever used to quantify anything in MTB. As in calculating the proportionate, integrative and derivative function of each stroke?
How would you “reset” the shim stack if you accidentally dropped them upon dissembling. Asking for a friend.
Same way it came out would be good
Good video, what's with the weird ipad-on-screen view though?
Is high speed damping (compression or rebound) only shaft speed or is displacement a factor as well? I am always curious on a trail descent with lots of little chundery rocks which is kicking in low or high speed?
So if you can create progression in a valve assembly by stacking big and small valves why don’t manufacturers do that with coil shocks which are inherently linear? Wouldn’t that be the best of both worlds? The small bump compliance of a coil but nine of the harsh bottom outs?
Good question. I think maybe because the valving is force vs velocity dependant as it has non compressible fluid going through it. Whereas the spring is force vs distance dependent. I had a radon with a coil and it had a specific tune for the bike but I could never get a good balance with a higher or lower spring yet I could with an air shock with volume spacers.
The response of the valves will not be proportional to the travel on the shock, but proportional to the speed the shaft is traveling. For that reason I think Jordi mentions that you always get the contrary to what you are looking for, in a configuration with stacked small and big valves, the shock will be on its point only at certain speeds, which will be then directly attached to the leverage ratio of the bike is installed in, making it now harder to tune.
But you could make it act on the high speed circuit or better make a separate circuit for the last few mm of the shock as a kind of “hydraulic bottom out”. I think EXT have something like that but I’m not sure it’s tunable.
@@themagicillusions Hydraulic bottom out will be differently than what you suggest on your first comment. Valving will have effect on the whole function of the travel thought the shock. You cannot go away doing circuits for everything. Bottom out effect is completely different than valve tuning, because of the area of effect of each one of them. Hy bottom out you can find it on Push ElevenSix shocks.
This isn’t even close to the same thing. There’s a balance between hydraulic and springs as we stated in the video
what a video!!!! Awesome
I have a question. You just show the shim stack and previously explained about VVC. Actually with a non-VVC system when you add HSC or HSR damping, do you restrict oil flow through the system? If so what's the difference with VVC? Doesn't it restrict oil flow as well? 🤔 . It's interesting even if I'm a little bit confused and didn't found clear explanation about it
VVC is how you adjust damping levels as opposed to some other systems (changing shimstack preload for example). The part doing the actual damping is still the same in either case.
I’m confused after reading this
Well, he keeps calling shims valves so we are all confused. The piston acts as the valve.. which releases the highspeed fluid to the shims to assist in dampening. This is more common on rebound with only a low speed valve. The VVC is about the worst design ever invented unless you can change them out for different flow rates. Watch some MX fork suspension videos, they go way more into detail than any MTB I've found. Vorsprung has some decent videos too.
Completely accurate!
Question: Are there differences in d. programs or shim stacks of similar shocks of each spring type?
god damn Tony Stark of suspension
If you go racing. Fill your valve full of shims. No oil just shims.
Now I've got to understand why Fox suspension costs that much
I got a brand new bike a year ago and it came with the 2017 fox 36 performance (fit4 damper) and it has quite a bit of stiction when I slowly cycle the fork up and down, but when when I do it really fast it is pretty smooth. It has been like this since day one. I also serviced the lowers and the air spring two weeks ago and it didn't really help. I feel like this is having an effect on the fork's small bump sensitivity. Also, my rear shock does not do this at all. Idk if this is true, but could it possibly be because of tight bushings? Pls help.
Rider weight with kit: 190 lbs
Fork PSI and sag reading: 80 psi at 25% sag
HSC/LSC: I don't have these options. Out of the "firm", "medium", and "open" settings that I do have, I have always left it at "open".
High and low speed rebound: I just have one rebound knob (which is probably low speed rebound) and it is 3 clicks away from being fully open.
volume spacers: The fork came with one volume spacer and I've left it at that.
Just a quick question, as I grabed my bike's handelbars today, the fork stanchions , (2017 Fox 34 factory) just popped up like if they were stucked a couple of inches into the lowers and suddenly gotten lose. Any ideia what that might have been? The Fork felt harsh afterwards
Service it
Can the new VVC tech be transferred to the 2020 model shock and fork?
For all those kids when I was younger that laughed while I was taking advanced hydraulics at age 13, and this is why folks, it’s the same shit only air over oil so it gives a precise amount other than oil that doesn’t compress easily and would just basically be a hard tail without air.
So the new dhx2 don't use a twin tube if I am right?
So the "Shock Dyno" is just a reappropriated sex machine?!?! :P
switching between the blurry video through your tablet and his camera is distracting but the content is really awesome
Can’t wait till they figure out how to add bottom out s to a shock like an slowdown at the end of the stroke on a tractor cylinder it has a step that when it hits the head seal it restricts the flow causing it to slow way down before it hits the cushion.
This all probably because Greg minnar is incredibly picky but…. He also has a reason, therefore evolution of shocks, Greg minnarrs bike feels good?
Lol Shock Dyno runs Windows 7
show mano Crow 8.01
Por favor poner un traductor en Español
Who tried to take there shock apart after watching this video and then had ten million pieces with no idea how to put it back together