Tire Grip | EXPLAINED
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2020
- What is up with tire grip? Why do wider tires have more grip? The answer is not what you think. Does the contact patch area matter? Why is it important to understand that tires are viscoelastic?
Lets figure out the Dark secrets of tire grip. - Авто та транспорт
Damn, as an engineer I feel ashamed for not questioning the theories used on those videos mentioned earlier now. That's very enlightening overall, love your videos, keep educating us please.
My thoughts exactly. Although I'm no longer working in engineering, that was what I studied and F=uN was my explanation for tyre grip. I'm glad I watched this before buying a spring balance and setting up an experiment to make myself look daft.
Just goes to prove that "a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing".
while other youtubers talk about high school physics, Mike starts to explain the materials science. Good.
well still just enjoing the fact of understanding only 1% of the material xD
Blessed comment
Seeing someone correct Ryan slightly broke my heart
But in another video i remember him being a bit more precise than in that dark side video
THANK YOU!!
I've been looking for years for a good summary on this topic, because tire grip is such a misunderstood topic. Now I have finally have a reference to point people to when they regurgitate myth.
Speaking as a former tyre test development rider, it also needs to be pointed out that upping tyre sizes, even from the same manufacturer & model, rarely gives more grip at the contact patch is defined by the tyres vertical stiffness, lateral stiffness, & rim produced profile. Often 2 tyre sizes have differing vertical &/or lateral stiffness, & the larger tyre may well have a smaller contact patch area on the same rim, as tyres can be fitted generally on approx 5 rims sizes and their vertical/lateral stiffness, contact patches upright, & leant over, profile, grip, & feedback will be different on each rim. Shape is everything
Great point.
I don't really leave comments on such big channels, but I feel that the like button is not enough here.
Thanks for taking the time to do such informative videos, and describe complex topics so simply. Even though they might not get as many views as I dunno, supermoto contentent, there's people that really appreciate what you do!
Your's is one of the few channels that I don't miss any video from. Keep it up!
I've discovered this channel recently, and I'm hooked. The research that goes into his videos is staggering.
This channel gives similar vibes to another channel albeit on cars i.e. "Engineering Explained".
I’m a mechanical engineer turned musician and I have never heard such a thorough description of motorcycle tire dynamics. Well done!
If this a actual film, out in theaters. I would watch it together with my lady. 😂 you had me at opening vid
hey holla fellow Malaysian! :D
Every motorcycle rider needs to study this channel over and over.. you are spoiling us my friend thankyou for the information on riding
“Based on real empirical data”. That sentence is really profound. Great!
Many "engineers" think the equations they learned dictate the behavior of real physical systems. Those equations are only applicable to a narrow set of conditions, and nature is free to generate data that is in disagreement with the (simple) equations, given the limited applicability of the equations.
My hypothesis is that Germans are taught that electrical systems behave as per the aggregate of manufacturer's specification, and design fragile systems based on the inability to imagine corner cases. That's the only way I can imagine the stark difference between German electrical systems and Japanese electrical systems.
I had this doubt for years, and didn't find satisfaction in any other answers before. You are such a great teacher!
9:08 when you head matches the tyre profiles and your explanations. This man speaks the truth
When the bubbly music comes on I know I’m gonna learn something🤔. Thanks Mike.
Congratulations Mike, this is one of the best researched and set up motorcycle video I have ever seen! Greetings from Germany, keep up the good work! I always learn something. Kind regards, Alex
Some references for the curious:
The Racing & High performance tire, Paul Haney, 2003
Motorcycle Handling and Chassis design, Tony Foale, 2002
Motorcycle Dynamics, Vittore Cossalter, 2006
Car suspension and Handling, Donald Bastow, 1993
Chassis Engineerings, Herb Adams, 1993
Competition car suspension, Allan Staniforth, 1988
Drive to win, Carroll Smith, 1996
Engineer to win, Carroll Smith, 1984
Fundamentals of Vehicle dynamics, Thomas D. Gillespie, 1992
Mechanics of pneumatic tires, Samuel K. Clark, 1978
Prepare to win, Carroll Smith, 1975
Race car aerodynamics, Joseph Katz, 1995
Race car vehicle dynamics, William F. Milliken and Douglas L. Miliken, 1995
Science and Technology of rubber, Frederick R. Eirich, 1978
The physics of Tire traction, Donald F Hays and Alan L. Browne, 1974
The Shock absorber handbook, John C. Dixon, 1999
The Tire pavement interface, Marion G. Pottinger, 1986
Tires, suspension & handling, John C. Dixon, 1996
Tune to win, Carrol Smith, 1978
Vulcanization of Elastomers, G. Allinger and I. J. Sjothun, 1964
I'm reading Motorcycle Dynamics at this exact moment! As a tire nerd/material scientist/chemist/mechanical engineer/former racer, thank you SO MUCH for making this video. Tires are so under appreciated, they're all just black and round right? This video is already in depth, but only scratches the surface of the complexity. Could have added (and probably way too technical) the Loss Modulus and Storage Modulus based on temperature (such as a DMA graph). Which is a discussion on glass transition temperature/rubbery plateau/flow region to demonstrate exactly why operating temperatures are so critical to tire operation, tire warmup, and over-heating. It would also be cool to see a comparison of a 190 rear on a 5.5" and 6" rear wheel. U vs V profile on the wheel, and contact patch at lean angle vs straight line stability based on that profile.
Such a great video.
Wow, what a list! thanks.
What do I win if I own all of the above referenced?
@@RedTurbocar My undying respect and a whole lot of knowledge.
Ohhhh man I fucking love the Carrol Smith books. Have devoured all of them. Holy fuck you actually read Miliken? Clearly you are my type of person. I've also read Gillespie. If you get a chance read "Race Car Engineering" by Paul Van Valkenburgh. I may have misspelled it. His books are very similar to Carrol Smith's books, but it's interesting to see the same information from someone else's opinion.
Got a new subscriber by the way
When you said, “Contact patch shape” I yelled thank you! The shape of the contact patch is so important. Same for car tires. It also has an effect on traction under braking and acceleration. Thanks for giving people the real scoop.
You are awesome, one of the gems in YT, keep it coming , love you mike.
I'm not sure how 'grip comes from weight', I weigh a lot, but I lost my grip years ago!
Cool comment,I don't weigh much and I,very got fk all grip too.cheer,s, happy and safe new year from,Auckland,New Zealand,all the best...
Underrated comment
🤣
bro you can find replacement grips on ebay n stuff
you can even get heated grips
@@jmc2567 what???....🤔💭
When will you make a video about the knobs on dirt bike tires?? (13:10)
+1 to this request )
+1 would love to see this
+1 please do this
+1
+1
I love how the ultra technical concepts are explained on ultra technical torn-up cardboard.
As a physics student and track day rider and enduro rider, this is now my fave channel on youtube.
Dirt knobbies next!
Thanks a lot for this video. For me personally, your channel is one of the most educating channels to learn and have a proper understanding of bikes.
Underrated channel. Motorcycle grips as with other things in life, are not always as simple.
Thanks man
This video earned my subscription. Never thought about tyre slip in corners. Though I could see semi-circles on the edges of a new tyre that I slowly break in. I suspected this was due to tyre slip in corners, but was not sure how it really works.
When the engineering knows race and what are talking about. Great job for make me (engineering student) understand the real fisics behind those simplifications.
As an engineering student you should know the video is wrong. its first year physics
@Benjamin Vadocz see my other comment
@@victorperezADSK Some references for you to read up.
The Racing & High performance tire, Paul Haney, 2003
Motorcycle Handling and Chassis design, Tony Foale, 2002
Motorcycle Dynamics, Vittore Cossalter, 2006
Car suspension and Handling, Donald Bastow, 1993
Chassis Engineerings, Herb Adams, 1993
Competition car suspension, Allan Staniforth, 1988
Drive to win, Carroll Smith, 1996
Engineer to win, Carroll Smith, 1984
Fundamentals of Vehicle dynamics ics, Thomas D. Gillespie, 1992
Mechanics of pneumatic tires, Samuel K. Clark, 1978
Prepare to win, Carroll Smith, 1975
Race car aerodynamics, Joseph Katz, 1995
Race car vehicle dynamics, William F. Milliken and Douglas L. Miliken, 1995
Science and Technology of rubber, Frederick R. Eirich, 1978
The physics of Tire traction, Donald F Hays and Alan L. Browne, 1974
The Shock absorber handbook, John C. Dixon, 1999
The Tire pavement interface, Marion G. Pottinger, 1986
Tires, suspension & handling, John C. Dixon, 1996
Tune to win, Carrol Smith, 1978
Vulcanization of Elastomers, G. Allinger and I. J. Sjothun, 1964
@@MikeonBikes Thanks for the input 👌
No first year engineering student can make any statement on the validity of this video. The concepts here just begin to get into polymer science. Viscoelastic materials can be thought of as a dash pot and spring combination. I guarantee you that no undergrad ME has a scientific understanding of this topic (viscoelastic materials was a 500 level class in my Master's program). Please see the references Mike has listed.
I think I need to watch this a few more times, well done. Also love the high quality audio, video and sets right beside the torn scraps of cardboard and hand scrawled notes, lol. Reuse that packaging!
You prove Einsteins saying: "If you can't explain something simply it is because you don't understand it well enough." Now even I understand it better.
Rarely do I come across something so well and thoroughly explained. Thank you greatly.
Love the technical understanding you have of the physics of bike geometry. And your McGyver T shirt. Rockin'
Okay, this is one absolutely oustanding video on tires! Exactly answers all the questions and doubts I had. Thank you for sharing the knowledge!
The MacGyver shirt is classic!!! And as always, excellent video!
LOL! I've been riding my whole life! You can tell there's something going on down there. Easiest way to explain it? It's like scotch tape. The bigger the piece, the more grip. You rock mike!
It just donned on me that part of the keying aspect relies on how rubber acts like a spring. Great video. The best I've seen on this subject.
Hey, i´m a tire Engineer for Car Tires and your video is the first on on youtube that i watched without feeling any pain!:) Great job!
That was EXCEPTIONALLY informative! Thank you! Brilliant content! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
MIKEEEE keep up the good work sir. This was very informative for me and my riding buddies. Thanks for helping us ride more safe.
1:36 in and I have renewed my subscription for 5 years. Very well done. Thanks 🙏
Very informative video. Gets to show that friction and grip is fundamentally two different things. Friction only contributes to the overall concept of grip.
This is the best explanation I've seen on how contact patch and tire size affect grip. It would have been great to provide effective coefficients of friction and how they change with tire size in a few select circumstances, but this data may not exist.
Great video and excellent explanations. For SCCA autocross, I found that if went with too wide of a tire, it would generate less grip because for lightweight cars, the tire temperature would not increase enough during a 50-60 second run. The pressure at the contact patch decreased too much, in which hysteric deformation of the rubber into the tarmac asperities was reduced.
Tire dynamics is indeed a very complicated topic. My head was spinning when I studied the brush model, dugoff model, and ‘magic’ tire formula back in school.
Your erudition commends respect. Looking forward to more such explanations. Good job. Educating is serving. Your service is priceless. Keep it up man. 👌👍
A very good explanation with real world scenario. Unlike other videos that only compares laboratory conditions
Dude. This is the best video I have seen regarding road grip!!
Thanks!! ❣️
Awesome video. It's a community's job to keep tabs on the other's no harm done. Most of us all love canyon, ryan and yourself
Mike! Its great to have you talk real shit!!
Now a days that its crowded with "experts" and "influencers" knowing nothing!
THANKS SO MUCH
Just discovered your channel. Dude, your explanations are on point! Great content!
Very, very good content! Thanks for putting this together. Awesome stuff!
Seen your progress for a long time. This must be your best video yet and cool intro :D
Man this is incredible and informative
Loved this one, Mike!
Best motorcycle tire video I have seen so far
Always awesome, Mike. Thank you.
man, we learned so much solid stuff from you. cheers!
just found your channel, finally someone without a finger up their nose
I have a honours degree in Mech Eng and understand about 20-40% of this (albeit I qualified 30 years ago). That’s me being dumb rather than Mikes explanation. For the bits I did understand it seems to make sense and the graphics really help. My conclusion- it’s a complicated business and I’m really glad we can benefit from the research and testing those top brand manufacturers put in. I will give it a passing thought the next time I put on a wide track tyre. Mike you have done a great job here really useful content and well presented, many thanks for putting this together.
You are far and away the BEST motorcycle channel on the internet. Ride well.
I subscribe also to Canyonchasers and Fort9. 🍻
Nice presentation, I love it.
The best channel to be a better Rider!
This is great content.
Thanks Mike !
I got it the first time you talked about it. and I got myself a supermoto like you suggested. that 450 Husqvarna nice! great fun thanks... thumbs up!
Excellent video!!
This was very interesting and informative.
And I ride a Honda Cb125r (not for much longer though) and that thing for some reason has a 150/60 rear, when most other 125cc bikes I know have 120 rear tires.
But I have to say it has great handling and corners very well.
Wow! Really well done !
Fortnine heard boss music when this was posted :) Keep killing it Mike
who was the other youtuber who said it grip came from the weight??
@@PK-lo6ws i dont remember
Finally, an accurate explanation of tire grip.
what an absolutely phenomenal video..finally somebody managed to distill and simplify Tony Foale as well
Very good video. Very well put together, and very good and usual information
Excellent, very informative!
thanks, i liked your explanation, it is most needed in the bikes world. very hard to find explanations like this one
Mike, you did such a good job on this next one should be CAR tires on the rear wheel of motorcycles. Yes you read that correctly. Warning though, once they riders install car tire on the rear they swear is corners better? My response is if that's true Road Racers would install car tires and be done with it. This phenomena seems to be among Honda Valkyrie riders and Harley's.
Awesome . Thanks for information.
Nice work, you put into words many of my concerns/suspensions of many current grip and contact patch theories. It's not an either/or thing, it's a combination of a lot of black sciences interacting in a highly dynamic environment.
great presentation
Wow! I was very sceptical of this video, because of all the trash on YT. You explain everything so clear for everyone!
You have to throw stiction in to this as well, friction is seen in movement and stiction is the force to overcome to start a movement or slide, this is higher value than the measured friction value in movement. 👍
Thank you for explaining this!
You cover some points that others skip over. TY.
I gotta pick up that book! Sounds like a good read.
Interesting stuff.
You are very entertaining Mike
Truelly awesome video! I would love to have you as a teacher! :D
Thank you for all your great work!
You always have good informative content. Love from India
Great vid, very creative and interesting
Brilliantly explained .. nice i learnt something today
Best. Tire. Grip. Explanation. Ever. And
Dude, get a whiteboard.
Very informative. Thank u Mike
This video was excellent. Thank you
Got a sub from me for this vid. Explaining both the common theory and the actual material science behind it in laments terms is highly educational.
Very interesting - a great explanation.
I’m remembering the friction experiment when you interlock two phone books.
Page into page, for the whole book, the resulting friction was so high a champion weight lifter couldn’t separate the books.
And that’s just the weight of paper.
Very good explanation.
very informative video for long distance riders too..
that was a helpful video. thankyou for your simple explanation
I don’t know if anyone has asked: “Why does Road tyres work better than street legal 21-18s on dual-purpose bikes?” I know the obvious answer is because it’s made that way, perhaps maybe you can explain further (and better than what I’ve read so far in Tyres and Vehicle dynamics).
Work better in what way? Grip? Turning? Longevity?
finally!! there is proper explanation on why wider tires giving more grip
Great video
great presentation, thanks!!
Now this is a good informative vid thank you
dude seriously you are awesome
So, after I watched 5-6 videos of yours, I guess I can call you great teacher now.
Thanks for the info Mike 👌🏻