On hofmann interpretation, he nailed all mimics. There will be those who know here that Erlkönig is Goethe's epic poem. The pain of a father who takes his sick child on a horse and a mystic and an elven king who tries to get the child. When we look at the score, the characters are placed on top with lyrics of lied: 6:59 Der vater: father 7:16 Erlkönig: Elven king 7:35 Der kind: Child Also the beginning part is the voiceover With these lets prove by story-telling that Hofmann mimics everything 4:26 Horse rides, 4:28 the wind is howling Let's see 4:50-5:24, See here how he makes the lied sound bel canto. He starts the lied by emphasizing the melodic top voice. 5:44 hofmann entered the child's speaking to his father. If you notice the chords so severe (horses are running) but the child's voice is weak. He emphasized all these, which contemporary pianist can emphasize so much sound? 6:16, Erlkönig speaks. Look at hofmann doing. He turned dynamic to piano masterfully. Made the tune exactly like lullaby. Because Erlkönig wants to deceive the child with sweet words. But the horses are still prominent in the left hand, and none of them are pushed into the background by the sweet lullaby. 6:26 The rubato here is magnificent, not straight at all. Its great mimic on dialogue fluency, Let's think of Erlkönig. Do you think it could be a straight speech? Hofmann captures the poetry of Goethe's writing so beautifully, The emphasis and extensions in notes seem to express the dialogue like Shakespearean English accent 6:45 Kid is spoken, He begs his father. He repeats that he hears voices and that the elf king wants him. These are also the places where the child's fever relapses. Hofmann highlights these areas perfectly, capturing the intensity there, the horse's feet, the howling wind. 6:59 Father spoke. Hoffmann reduces the violence here, Father soothes his child 7:13 Erlkönig spoke again, Sweet words began again, bargaining is being done. The Elden king tries bargaining with feast and the his daughters for to deceive. 7:33 Child's motif, Same things here on above 7:47 Father trying soothes trying again 8:08 Erlkönig spoke final. Before you come here, pay attention to how Hoffmann is paced. He is preparing us for this moment. With his last words, Erlkönig now holds the child by the arm. 8:19 now the real tragedy began. Climax. The boy begs his father one last time. In these parts, Hofmann literally hammers the piano. A truly great example of virtuosity = 8:30 8:34 The whole journey ends here 8:36 The vocal accents are incredibly intense yet sorrowful. 8:46 The rubato here, the spontaneous transitions. Show me a perfect example of this spontanously moment. Changes! Changes! All the time piece's soul is changes. This is a factor that connects music to the person so that there is not a single second that passes monotonously. 8:54- 9:03 The piece's soul changes again by the time we get here. One last time, forte and rubato! A magnificent example of bel canto. 9:04 Child is death. Piece finish People like Hoffmann and other old masters can only make this story this visible.
You analyzed it perfectly, this is exactly what I had in mind. Since I knew Erlköning well, I immediately noticed how the pianists overlooked the dramatic ups and downs and different character structures in the text. We hear a very obvious tension constantly increasing in the work and the poem. Hofmann offers the most convincing recording on this subject. There are also good examples such as Petri and Lamand, but Hofmann seems unrivaled in this recording. Nowadays, many people do not bother to understand the text of a lied or opera, but many musical elements are directly related to the text. Mozart, for example, changed tempos, instruments, and keys according to the text; The music of Schubert and Mozart becomes superficial because neither the musicians nor the listeners care that much about the text. But these composers were thinking dramatically. In Mozart's music, if you don't notice it, his letters are very clear. In the past, the relationship between text and music was much stronger. Rubato logic also has a lot to do with text-music, because when a person is tense, sad, fear or angry, he/she does not speak at the same speed. The content of the conversation instantly changes our speaking style. Jadlowker's recording is of course very good, but opera and lied culture are somewhat separated, and Jadlowker comes entirely from opera. Some bel canto opera singers may be a bit too much for Schubert's lied. I think I find singers who change their voice and singing more clearly, depending on the text, more suitable for this lied; and with a smaller voice. For example, Lotte Lehmann and Set Svanholm say each word according to its meaning and change everything accordingly. Of course, this is my opinion. Thank you!
@@OzanFabienGuvener thanks, it's pleasure to hear it from you. Like you said, there is no playing like singing today. Pianists we have is mistaken on piece's virtuosity elements. It seems like a piece transcribed just for piano with added virtuoso elements for salon. But not with the examples like hofmann petri etc here, A dull materialistic view like the one above also undermines the composer. Somebodies see Liszt as nothing more than a virtuoso illusionist today. Because of that poor performances and views to composer. The main thing is not to be able to play leaps and octaves, but to be able to tell us this poem with just the piano like Hofmann, without a singer. The absence of the culture of playing like a song that Mozart and Chopin valued so much, and the cold look at music, turns notes into a cadaver on paper.
A lot of what you describe with the contrasts of different voices was already accomplished by Liszt‘s arrangement. The second, later recording of Hofmann is, um, not quite as nice lol
Check out his Ecco ridente in cielo from Rossini’s Il barbiere di Siviglia. Not only better than the modern mosquito tenors but no one in the past can come close to him.
Hard to describe it as 'bel canto'. The singer makes many tempo changes followed by the pianist, which goes the numerous mentions of what bel Canto is in historical sources.
You got the entire thing wrong. This is the OLD SCHOOL of bel canto, singers back then used a lot of rubato to make it not sound metronomic. If you hear recordings of Mattia Battistini (I know not a tenor but he’s a singer praised by BOTH Verdi and Wagner), Giuseppe Anselmi, Fernando de Lucia, Emilio Perea, all those singers used a lot of rubato but it’s always tasteful just like Jadlowker here.
"Historical sources" Lol. Only if by historical sources you mean mindless speculation of "historical performance" people. What you are listening here IS a historical source and one much, much more valuable and informative than any written text. And besides, its not like the texts contradict this practice, in fact, the opposite is true, but "historical performance" people are modernists who want to do their modernist stuff and thus they twist the interpretation and sometimes outright dismiss them to make them in accordance with their personal modern way of playing. Use of rubato to the point that voices get desynchronized, improvisation, conservative use of vibrato, etc. all this things are mentioned in the treatises and it is exactly what you hear here, this is how classical music is supposed to sound.
@@marcossidoruk8033 I completely agree - the entire HIP thing occurring in the modern time imo is much more focusing on the material context like what instruments are more periodic, instead of performance practice itself. And some people would say “Rubini didn’t sing high notes in full covered chest voice” so they sang with weak falsetto, which I guarantee is 100% not how Rubini would sing. In fact when we listen to singers like Alessandro Bonci, for example, the high notes aren’t in the covered manner as what we heard from later tenors like Caruso, and some earlier tenors even switched to head voice in the high register like Giuseppe Paganelli. None of them sang in weak falsetto, their head voice still has core and vowel clarity, never had a sort of “woofy” sound like what we heard from a lot of modern singers that tried to (superficially) revive the old way of singing. And not to mention the ones singing 17-18th century operas in a crooning, whispering manner or with extremely small, constricted and un-theatrical way. After all, opera is derived from Ancient Greek drama and one of the main principles is to convey emotions through clear diction and sort of exaggerated way rather than just saying the words, but emphasize the meanings behind the words when you speak or sing the lyrics. Rubato would come after diction, the purpose of rubato is to emphasize not only the musical element, but also the words, in some important words singers might take a little bit more time. And since the accompaniment has to keep the rhythmic pulse going, it would be very natural if the singer didn’t synthesize together with the accompaniment.
@@marcossidoruk8033 what you are listening is late 19th century performance practice, nothing more. We do have sources and not speculation describing the rubato as being a free melody over a steady accompaniment. I am sorry to say that most early recordings do what was considered bad practice from 17th to the mid 19th century, that is to say having the accompaniment slow down and accelerate with nore regards to the measure./takt.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
On hofmann interpretation, he nailed all mimics. There will be those who know here that Erlkönig is Goethe's epic poem.
The pain of a father who takes his sick child on a horse and a mystic and an elven king who tries to get the child. When we look at the score, the characters are placed on top with lyrics of lied:
6:59 Der vater: father
7:16 Erlkönig: Elven king
7:35 Der kind: Child
Also the beginning part is the voiceover
With these lets prove by story-telling that Hofmann mimics everything
4:26 Horse rides, 4:28 the wind is howling
Let's see 4:50-5:24, See here how he makes the lied sound bel canto. He starts the lied by emphasizing the melodic top voice.
5:44 hofmann entered the child's speaking to his father. If you notice the chords so severe (horses are running) but the child's voice is weak. He emphasized all these, which contemporary pianist can emphasize so much sound?
6:16, Erlkönig speaks. Look at hofmann doing. He turned dynamic to piano masterfully. Made the tune exactly like lullaby. Because Erlkönig wants to deceive the child with sweet words. But the horses are still prominent in the left hand, and none of them are pushed into the background by the sweet lullaby. 6:26 The rubato here is magnificent, not straight at all. Its great mimic on dialogue fluency, Let's think of Erlkönig. Do you think it could be a straight speech? Hofmann captures the poetry of Goethe's writing so beautifully, The emphasis and extensions in notes seem to express the dialogue like Shakespearean English accent
6:45 Kid is spoken, He begs his father. He repeats that he hears voices and that the elf king wants him. These are also the places where the child's fever relapses. Hofmann highlights these areas perfectly, capturing the intensity there, the horse's feet, the howling wind.
6:59 Father spoke. Hoffmann reduces the violence here, Father soothes his child
7:13 Erlkönig spoke again, Sweet words began again, bargaining is being done. The Elden king tries bargaining with feast and the his daughters for to deceive.
7:33 Child's motif, Same things here on above
7:47 Father trying soothes trying again
8:08 Erlkönig spoke final. Before you come here, pay attention to how Hoffmann is paced. He is preparing us for this moment. With his last words, Erlkönig now holds the child by the arm. 8:19 now the real tragedy began. Climax. The boy begs his father one last time. In these parts, Hofmann literally hammers the piano. A truly great example of virtuosity = 8:30
8:34 The whole journey ends here
8:36 The vocal accents are incredibly intense yet sorrowful.
8:46 The rubato here, the spontaneous transitions. Show me a perfect example of this spontanously moment.
Changes! Changes! All the time piece's soul is changes. This is a factor that connects music to the person so that there is not a single second that passes monotonously.
8:54- 9:03 The piece's soul changes again by the time we get here. One last time, forte and rubato! A magnificent example of bel canto.
9:04 Child is death. Piece finish
People like Hoffmann and other old masters can only make this story this visible.
Absolutely! Yuja Wang and Kissin CANNOT do this!
Great comment
You analyzed it perfectly, this is exactly what I had in mind. Since I knew Erlköning well, I immediately noticed how the pianists overlooked the dramatic ups and downs and different character structures in the text. We hear a very obvious tension constantly increasing in the work and the poem. Hofmann offers the most convincing recording on this subject. There are also good examples such as Petri and Lamand, but Hofmann seems unrivaled in this recording.
Nowadays, many people do not bother to understand the text of a lied or opera, but many musical elements are directly related to the text. Mozart, for example, changed tempos, instruments, and keys according to the text; The music of Schubert and Mozart becomes superficial because neither the musicians nor the listeners care that much about the text. But these composers were thinking dramatically. In Mozart's music, if you don't notice it, his letters are very clear. In the past, the relationship between text and music was much stronger. Rubato logic also has a lot to do with text-music, because when a person is tense, sad, fear or angry, he/she does not speak at the same speed. The content of the conversation instantly changes our speaking style.
Jadlowker's recording is of course very good, but opera and lied culture are somewhat separated, and Jadlowker comes entirely from opera. Some bel canto opera singers may be a bit too much for Schubert's lied. I think I find singers who change their voice and singing more clearly, depending on the text, more suitable for this lied; and with a smaller voice. For example, Lotte Lehmann and Set Svanholm say each word according to its meaning and change everything accordingly. Of course, this is my opinion. Thank you!
@@OzanFabienGuvener thanks, it's pleasure to hear it from you. Like you said, there is no playing like singing today. Pianists we have is mistaken on piece's virtuosity elements. It seems like a piece transcribed just for piano with added virtuoso elements for salon. But not with the examples like hofmann petri etc here, A dull materialistic view like the one above also undermines the composer. Somebodies see Liszt as nothing more than a virtuoso illusionist today. Because of that poor performances and views to composer. The main thing is not to be able to play leaps and octaves, but to be able to tell us this poem with just the piano like Hofmann, without a singer.
The absence of the culture of playing like a song that Mozart and Chopin valued so much, and the cold look at music, turns notes into a cadaver on paper.
A lot of what you describe with the contrasts of different voices was already accomplished by Liszt‘s arrangement. The second, later recording of Hofmann is, um, not quite as nice lol
Hermann Jadlowker's Erlkönig is by far the best!!!!!! Completely destroyed modern school!!!!!!!!!!!!!
9:18 ff - Magnificent Józef Hofmann, wonderful musician.
He was one of the greatest, truly a first class artist.
Jadlowker also enormous tenor. I wish such a changeable spirit, dolce sound technique still alive. At least we still have these gems
Check out his Ecco ridente in cielo from Rossini’s Il barbiere di Siviglia. Not only better than the modern mosquito tenors but no one in the past can come close to him.
@OldSchoolOpera I definetly will, thanks
the best phlegmatic pianist in history
We makin it out the modern school with this one 🔥🔥🔥
Stolid pianism makes me drool
Hard to describe it as 'bel canto'. The singer makes many tempo changes followed by the pianist, which goes the numerous mentions of what bel Canto is in historical sources.
You got the entire thing wrong. This is the OLD SCHOOL of bel canto, singers back then used a lot of rubato to make it not sound metronomic. If you hear recordings of Mattia Battistini (I know not a tenor but he’s a singer praised by BOTH Verdi and Wagner), Giuseppe Anselmi, Fernando de Lucia, Emilio Perea, all those singers used a lot of rubato but it’s always tasteful just like Jadlowker here.
"Historical sources" Lol. Only if by historical sources you mean mindless speculation of "historical performance" people.
What you are listening here IS a historical source and one much, much more valuable and informative than any written text. And besides, its not like the texts contradict this practice, in fact, the opposite is true, but "historical performance" people are modernists who want to do their modernist stuff and thus they twist the interpretation and sometimes outright dismiss them to make them in accordance with their personal modern way of playing.
Use of rubato to the point that voices get desynchronized, improvisation, conservative use of vibrato, etc. all this things are mentioned in the treatises and it is exactly what you hear here, this is how classical music is supposed to sound.
@@marcossidoruk8033well said
@@marcossidoruk8033 I completely agree - the entire HIP thing occurring in the modern time imo is much more focusing on the material context like what instruments are more periodic, instead of performance practice itself. And some people would say “Rubini didn’t sing high notes in full covered chest voice” so they sang with weak falsetto, which I guarantee is 100% not how Rubini would sing. In fact when we listen to singers like Alessandro Bonci, for example, the high notes aren’t in the covered manner as what we heard from later tenors like Caruso, and some earlier tenors even switched to head voice in the high register like Giuseppe Paganelli. None of them sang in weak falsetto, their head voice still has core and vowel clarity, never had a sort of “woofy” sound like what we heard from a lot of modern singers that tried to (superficially) revive the old way of singing. And not to mention the ones singing 17-18th century operas in a crooning, whispering manner or with extremely small, constricted and un-theatrical way. After all, opera is derived from Ancient Greek drama and one of the main principles is to convey emotions through clear diction and sort of exaggerated way rather than just saying the words, but emphasize the meanings behind the words when you speak or sing the lyrics. Rubato would come after diction, the purpose of rubato is to emphasize not only the musical element, but also the words, in some important words singers might take a little bit more time. And since the accompaniment has to keep the rhythmic pulse going, it would be very natural if the singer didn’t synthesize together with the accompaniment.
@@marcossidoruk8033 what you are listening is late 19th century performance practice, nothing more. We do have sources and not speculation describing the rubato as being a free melody over a steady accompaniment. I am sorry to say that most early recordings do what was considered bad practice from 17th to the mid 19th century, that is to say having the accompaniment slow down and accelerate with nore regards to the measure./takt.