The Nameless Things & Other Terrifying Creatures of Middle-earth! | Middle-Earth Lore
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- Опубліковано 26 жов 2022
- Today we cover some of the more terrifying things from Tolkien's lore, just in time for the run up to Halloween!
In the video we look at:
The Deadmen of Dunharrow (Army of the Dead)
The Nameless Things
Ungoliant
The Barrow-wights
& more!!
We hope you enjoy it!
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#LordoftheRingsLore #NamelessThings #Ungoliant - Розваги
“be on your guard, there are older and fouler things than orcs here” that quote from Gandalf has so much more meaning now
I think he was specifically referring to Amazon Prime.
Also he says “in the deep places of the world” to be exact
I always took the idea of the Nameless Things as "side-effect" of Melcore's discord. While the world was being created (or sung into existence): the hills, mountains and creatures of beauty were a result of the singing. The Ainur didn't mindfully manifest each individual thing, but rather focused on the larger picture and let the world sort-of "create itself" along with the balance and ecosystem within. Melcore's discord created these evil things and dark places in much the same way. In summary: These were evil creatures created as an unconscious side-effect of Melcore's song and not created with forethought. Atleast, that's the way I see it. Cheers!
Perhaps Eru was like an orchestral conductor, with knowledge of the whole and how it works together. The individual spirits singing (even the greatest among them) poured out their individual contributions based on their own nature/essence, but did not have perfect advance knowledge of how their contribution would interact with every little other one being offered by the other participants. The loyal among them knew their own small parts (the spirits perhaps having e.g. specific aspects of nature to infuse) and when Malkor introduces his discord, some of the singers unintentionally 'sync with his tempo' etc and pour their contribution into his, which likely had the role of corrupting that which was being introduced into the discord.
In closing, I'm sure Eru had a plan for every single spirit present, from the weakest, right up to Malkor, the most powerful of the Valar, and none of them knew how all these contributions would wind together into a music of creation, so even Malkor didn't exactly know every outcome of what he had just done.
I do like the idea where unknown to anyone involved except Eru, the brand new world ended up with a few more residents than they expected:
(DISCORD/ungoliant) ||| (The conflict between/Various nameless things) ||| (POSITIVE MAJORITY OF THE MUSIC / tom bombadil)
@@aliveandwellinisrael2507 Beautifully said.
Thank you for taking my incoherent ramblings, structuring and refining the core idea in a way that makes sense. lol
I always imagined the unnamed creatures as an unintended side-effect (and therefore, MOSTLY unknown), resulting from a conflagration of creative wills.
Like 15 chefs attempting to make thee best hot-chocloate but one of them keeps squirting lemon juice into the mixture, souring and curdling parts of the milk. And the unnamed creatures are those soggy, sour clumps noone scooped out of the mix. They just sank to the bottom and continued to fester, away from the chefs' eyes.
Sure, my metaphor KIND OF makes sense?
*shrugs*
(But yours was better.)
This speaks to the elaborate reality of Tolkien’s fantasy. In hindsight, we have realized (as did Tolkien himself) that his Legendarium did not come into existence as it may for other authors.
Tolkien’s writings did not “create” his Legendarium. They “revealed” it, …and only in parts and pieces.
Tolkien himself often wondered what all was taking place in Arda over the ages. Answering the questions of fans and often posing more questions himself. Sometimes he would posit a guess… or respond with “I don’t know”.
Middle Earth was a mystery, even to Tolkien. He shared with us only those parts that he knew about. And often that knowledge was not from certainty but only from great confidence.
This is one major aspect of his work that has become evident to the fans. And yet another driving force behind the fandom.
When a master musician starts to tune their instrument, before the structure of the music itself, there are old, nameless sounds... unholy creaking of worn leather cases, disfigured and discoloured metal hinges, the unintentional scraping of finger over string. With an entire orchestra tuning, believe me, many nameless things are created, none intended to be part of the performance.
This paragraph is art
Love this comment
I agree. Before singing the Ainur into creation, Eru hummed a bit then cleared his throat. This resulted in getting Tom, Ungoliant and the Nameless Things.
I think it'd be interesting to see a video on the Watcher In The Lake of Moria and how it came to be
I think Gandalf statement about them being older than Sauron can be considered authoritative, since he and Sauron came into being at the same time and would be equally ignorant of their origins.
Although Sauron is included in the Music of the Ainur, it should not be forgotten. It is mentioned that the melodies of the Ainur develop and take shape as they understand each other during the performance of the music. If the Nameless Things are spiritual beings formed as a result of the distortion of the Music of the Ainur by Melkor, it may be that Sauron did not know them as a result of his inability to understand the melodies on which they were formed.
I mean that make sense , but by this logic only Eru could have known about them since I can't imagine any Valar to know what that discord caused not even Melkor himself
@@davidkosiba624 I guess so hmm. Valars seem to have a lot of gaps in their insight compared to a literal god
@@eKizify yep, they are more like Asgardians or Olympians , far more intelligent than mortals but not omniscient….
@@davidkosiba624 Agreed. Although they may have learned of them afterwards and deduce their origin, but yeah we don't know.
@@eKizify Given Tolkien was a devout man, I think it would be like in Christianity, with Eru a reference to the big-g God who can create from nothing and possesses perfect knowledge and is capable of anything, yet acts only in a way consistent with His nature. The Valar, on the other hand are 'small-g' gods, heavenly "living beings" (as referred to in Scripture) with restrictions, but obviously among the highest of His creations due to their individual responsibilities and proximity to Eru. The Maiar would also be "living beings" or "angels" in the sense that they're messengers. None but Eru have the whole picture, and he was a sort of conductor for the Music. Melkor might have thought he knew what he was doing, but there would have been things that happened (like Ungoliant) that he wasn't aware of. They contributed in accordance with their own natures/aspects, while the Conductor led the performance, knowing how it all fits together.
Personally speaking; I believe The Nameless Things are not creations of Melkor but are rather creatures that are a biproduct from the age of chaos or creation itself and served no master. They were beings that are, and always shall be and where no one should venture!
Thank you for sharing that interesting thought.
Chuck is right
I always assumed the Nameless Things were manifestations of the Nothing beyond creation.
Crazy how Gandalf explains "in despair my enemy was my only hope." When Him and the Balrog fell below the depts of Moria. You would think they both teamed up for a moment in order to escape the depts of Moria. even the balrog fled what ever was down there. With the help of Gandalf it was enough for both of them to flee back on top of the mountain.
but this also implyies that something aside of Eru Illuvatar actually did existed before or at the same time as him but being totally the opposite and also makes better sense why Melkor got corrupted himself specially when seeking in vain the Unperishable Flame on that outer Voidness, he might have met SOMETHING after all as Nothingness was a type of thing regardless of the Christian influence idea that beyond Eru Illuvatar and his will of creation nothing else existed before or besides himself, but well... that´s the Christian (Cathollic) perspective densly on Tolkien´s words but NOT the former Pre'Christian views on the older Western and Northern European sources he used to create his legendariun besides the Cathollic Christian references and core-values. He could have created a very rich and endless extending universe if not so restrained by his religious influences on his work, and well overall he still did A LOT even with that, but indeed avoided some particular key ideas to develop better as the Nameless Things and Ungoliant´s true nature origins after all. (Anyway, Melkor might have used them and will on the Dagor Dagorath after all, and maybe as secret weapons that´s why none even Sauron knew about them, though the Balrog did, and well overall... I don´t see Gandalf leaving Middle-Earth so helpless without some planing against them, maybe that´s why went with Tom Bombadill´s last meeting as he is an eerie mystery too but of the opposite nature to them very fitting after knowing what he did with the Barrow Wights.)
That's a huge spider 🕷️🕸️🕸️🕷️!! If you look at all the illustrations of morgoth standing by ongoliant it's pretty freaky because morgoth was really massive .
I always though Ungoliant or creatures like it were down there. xD Gandalf is just like nah, we not talking about that. If the dude is willing to go at Sauron then it speaks volumes he doesn't even want to speak of what's down there.
Please do a what if the dwarves found the nameless things instead of the Balrog
Saruman & Gandalf used to chill. They would talk often. Saruman probably told Gandalf about them. Saruman has no idea what they are. But still knows they exist. Crazy how Gandalf and the Balrog battled deep deep in the earth. The combat must have been so fierce! And the Balrog was the one who knew what was stirring in the Abyss. He ran! He Fled! Poor Gandalf… literally came out of there changed.
About Sauron not knowing about them ... Even though he was present when the world was created doesn't mean he could se everything created. Even if he is a spirit he is not omnipresent. So if a nameless being is crated by discord of the music. Something could happen even beyond the knowledge of Melkor. Not even he was omnipresent ...
True, melkor didn’t even know who, what or where ungoliant came from, which makes her even more terrifying.
I always think that if Sauron didn´t knew about them was because Melkor didn´t show all his planings for him - after all the attack over the Trees of Valinor was alongside someone else than his usual companions, the Balrogs or/and Sauron, none other than Ungoliant, someone alike the Nameless Things - and that was all. It makes sense as the Balrog knew them and was ok with using their tunnels, so it just was Sauron left away of some things of his master.
wooo cheers on 200k! here since HME day 1!!
Awesome video I love the spooky ones!
Great video guys! Cheers
Great video. I think though that because Sauron was a lesser Ainur thus a Maiar, it makes sense that he doesn't know of the 'nameless things' as opposed to Melkor who was a greater Ainur/Valar. Melkor is more likely to know about the direct effects of his corruption of the song and perhaps with this knowledge, was able to get the cooperation of ungoliant and maybe, we can infer that only he and Illuvatar know these nameless things #mytwocents
Nice concept. More such a videos will be good.
Brilliant content. A+ 🤩
YES!!! Epic!!! Thank you!!!
Possibly the Nameless Things could have been Ainur who Sauron may have known in their original forms but were corrupted and changed forms unbeknownst to Sauron, perhaps even by Melkor as their corruption may not have been linked to Melkor.
What-if video idea for you to do:
What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
There are other chances for him to die and then upgrade to the white.
Interestingly the Silmarillion states that Melkor went into the Void _alone_ searching for the Flame Imperishable. This was evidently before the corruption of Sauron..might Melkor in his attempts to _create_ life inadvertently succeeded in a sense?
Or he met something after all there. and so the whole idea of Eru Illuvatar being the only one ever mightier alone in before his creation acting is just a ruse to protect of a despairing bigger outer reality beyond Eru´s barrier surrounding him to avoid none sees out and not to be seeing back but... well it seems something leaked out, corrupted Melkor, and also that´s how Ungoliant and the Nameless Things came to be too. But that level of cosmic horror relativism needed to short of the Christian references about Eru Illuvatar´s role after all. (Nothenless those were actually the pre-Christian references he used for creating his world so he kinda forced the mythologies into the Christian values frame-settings.)
Great vidio 🙏
The Hobbit quote about something that might allure on the Nameless Things but it always seemed that it was an introduction to Gollum´s nature as indeed back then it was unknown that he was once a Hobbit himself too, so he was one of those unknown mysterious ancient cave dwellers before the Orcs within the Misty Mountains. Gandalf might have had vague knowledge about things like him, or the Watcher-in-the-Water or the ones behind the fell-voices in the air at Caradhras pass (which wasn´t Saruman as the movies did), or whatever Aragorn meet on his world travelings which he allures as more nasty evil beings not in league with Sauron but never actually quoting more precisely what they were in all.
The Nameless Things seems more alike the creatures used on Peter Jackson´s fanfiction version of the Battle of the Five Armies which were a merging of the long-forgotten ground-burrowing nature of them and the furtherlymore mysterious and just once metioned Were-Worms of the Last Sand Desser on the far East of Middle Earth on The Hobbit, and which that´s how they were labeled on The Hobbit movies but... overall seem more as the Nameless Things than those. (Anyway whatever the Were-Worms were they seems so much mysterious as the Meowers of the Tom Bombadill´s stories
I wonder if Tolkien ever read H P Lovecraft
The Nameless Things indeed seems to be on the same league of eerieness origin and nature as Ungoliant, just differing that she is named and developed a little bit for a particular moment of Middle-Earth history, whereas so far the Nameless Things seems to haven´t been used on. (Unless they were the responsibles of the creation of Utumno and Angband on the very mainly underground settings of them both as they´re burrower-dwellers and it seems Moria´s Balrog have known them for a lot of time to use their tunnels freely easily.)
Todd Jensen suggests that the nameless things may have been inspired by the dragon Nidhog of Norse mythology, who gnawed at the roots of Yggdrasil the World Tree.
they kinda were but also the other "worms" furtherly more ancient and darker than him on the same-purpose.
i hope we get to see these in rop or the dwarf game
What dwarf game? Am I missing out?!
The game dev confirmed that there would be some nameless things content in the game in the Nerd of Rings video interview!
There is no life in the void, only death
Did Tolkien know about Lovecraft's work? Maybe both poured from the same archetypical sources.
They did. The Nameless Things seems to be done on the Lord of the Rings before Tolkien knew of Lovecraft´s work - and he deemed it in contempt as he knew very little of him. Still both might have come from the same old literary sources, and well Tolkien did knew and liked two Lovecraftian collaborators: Clark Ashton Smith and Robert E. Howard and well... both were cosmic horror authors.
The nameless things left middle earth and went to Disney to become producers, directors, and actors. And they remain there today.
Ungoliant - alongside the Nameless Things which might be or not related to herself - seems to me to uncover some quite ambiguous origin and nature that it´s so eerie unsettling for the story, that Tolkien deemed to downgrade playing safe on the uncertain Valar´s canon word as just a corrupted Maia spirit after following Melkor but taking her own path later on. Still this seems a very unreliable explanation as... overall their particular power seems to handy fitting for Melkor´s purposes against the Valinor Trees which therefore she couldn´t be a random corrupted Maia alone, and morevoer it doesn´t make sense that he risks SO MUCH himself to allow improve her power-levels just for sake of acheiveing victory, when he knew got more loyal followers on the Balrogs and Sauron, so it seems as he choose her particulary after some hesitation of doing an uneasy truce with someone he actually knew that were FAR MORE EVIL THAN HIM and well it actually proven it, though he still needed her FOR SUCCESS, which he indeed acheived. Therefore Ungoliant still doesn´t makes sense to have her as a random corrupted Maiar under Melkor´s level of powers, specially more when as she got updated she SURPASSED HIM, something that seems was able to do it anyway if taking the chance, but he kinda got confidence as when meeting her again - after an unknown previous meeting in the past - she was on her basic lowest tier of power more even matched or under him so he kinda got confident of it, but... well at the end it shown that she wasn´t trustyworthy in all, after acheiveing doing so much harm to the Valar at Valinor´s core center that, it just... she doesn´t seem to be any kind of Maia in all.
Therefore what does she is and when she met Melkor the first ever time? And if she wasn´t create of the Ainulindale in all, from where she came? There seems to be some eerie uncanny deep and darkest cosmic horror conection with Ungoliant´s origins, nature and fate that only makes better sense as something which infiltrated from OUTSIDE of Eru Illuvatar´s planing or creation as a whole on the earliest stages from OUTSIDE leaking of an even mightier or matching power as Illuvatar but evil chaotic on that Outer Void where Melkor dwelled alone a lot of time, aparently not founding the Imperishable Flame of Creation in all but... probably not actually founding all so empty there!!! However these ideas endangered the very core Christian-linked foundations of Tolkien´s lore inspiration about Eru Illuvatar´s himself, so... Tolkien didn´t delved furtherlymore on that leaving all in a very outrageous and irritating enduring mystery as well it seems to imply some unfinished and aborted-avoided ideas of expanding his work just to not be at odds with Christian references on it.
You say that Melkor created these monsters but wasn’t creation reserved to Eru.
Melkor could only modify that what was created.
His distortion of the song created them.
Build. Me. An. Army. Worthy. Of. Mordor.
Extraordinary is not how i would term the Eternal Void; Envy of the Nearness of Ilúvatar unto Being drives it 😰
Where did that information on Barrow Wights come from?
Am I crazy or are there 2 pieces of music playing simultaneously in the background on this video?
Hey the nameless things were encountered by Gandalf when he faught the balrog under the mountains of Moria…. All the ones you have examples of have names …so they’re not the nameless things.
Morgoth / melkor is older than sauron .
The seemingly double background music tracks made it hard to focus for me. The happy sounding track is playing throughout the video, and even continuing slightly after the channel outro.
You could argue that Sauron came into being after Mairon was created for for a while after that creation did not exist until Mairon was seduced to Melkor's service. This may also be sophistry:-)
are there any snakes or giant snakes in Middle earth?
I know of only one instance of a serpent in the Silmarillion when Luthien and Huan(the great hound of Valinor) encountered Sauron on their way to rescue Beren.
"But no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom, nor devil's art, nor beast-strength could overthrow Huan of Valinor; and he took his foe by throat and pinned him down. Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent and from monster to his own accustomed form; but he could not elude the grip of Huan"...sorry for the long quote but that's the only time I read of serpent in the books. Maybe some nameless creatures are serpents.
@@Azulakayes thanks man
For me suggestion that Ungoliant might be the only unnamed thing that actually has a name is most probable .
Maybe Melkor learned about them during Ainulindalë or when he digged Arda in Utumno. Then he searched for one in Valinor. An he found it. Her :)
p.s. I wouldn't be surprised, if in amazon show it turns out that Amon Amarth is actually a nameless thing's bottom sticking out of the soil xD So by watering it they made an enema an it exploded with apocalyptic diarhea
👍👍
I’ve always held that the Nameless Things are the mysterious spirits of Arda beyond mortal understanding that were twisted by Melkor’s dischord (pun intended), as there are other spirits in Arda that are just as strange, elemental, and truly unfathomable, but still good, like Tom Bombadil.
Basically, the same way Balrogs are twisted Fire Maiar, the Nameless Things are twisted Bombadil-like entities, at least in my mind.
👋
It may be late, but there is just too much sound and music going on in the background. made it hard to concentrate when it sounds like 2 song playing at the same time
Video 193
are u playing 2 soundtracks at the same time in this one? i cant take it sorry
This has nothing to do with this video (great btw), this just occurred to me- If Sauron had actually acquired the one ring, how would he have Used it? Not what would he use it on, but physically how would he utilize it? With the ring would he have the power to project/produce a physical body again? *Sitting here pretty well baked and realized that eyeballs, made of fire of not, don't Have fingers to put the ring On.
He already had a phisical body , I assume you mean the movies , they actually didn't mention it in the movies but in the books he had a phisical body with 1 finger missing, he looked most likely the same as he was in the 2nd age , so he had a body but he probably wanted to be very sure about it being strong enough which is why he didn't guard Mount Doom by himself cause of he lost his body again he would have had to wait a few thousand years , and he didn't even think anybody would try to destroy the Ring which is why he wasn't there
😂 😂 😂 I read the last sentence and it took me out. Good one
What-if video idea for you to do:
What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
Considering that the nameless ones where once human and that Tolkien had said humans where not bound to the world, especially after death that would stand to reason that only Aluvitar would know of them and bout them. Sauron knew the world but not what was beyond the Aynar, the Aynar were always distant with humans and even with Tolkien humans where a mysteries even after death. Even the Aynor never really knew what happened to Humans after they die so why would Sauron know especially of those stuck between the world and the next.