Well, thoughts and prayers helped there as much as it helps our school shootings.... it is sad they died, but lots of others are dying there. It's sad that religion brain washed them to lead to the end of thier lifes.
That's part of my thing: Yes, they were on the young side of adulthood, but they were still old enough to make informed, reasoned choices. I would also have a lot more sympathy for people who were in someplace like Haiti *just* to help, with no ulterior/secondary motives. If you want to go someplace to help the people there, and you're willing to put yourself at risk for it, I suppose that's admirable in a way. But why tie it to religious stuff? It's not necessary, and there's something so icky about that. I've also had convos with people about this story where they say, "Well, not all missionaries are pushing their religion on people." And I'm just like, first off, I'm pretty sure that's not the case for these guys, and second, If you're going someplace to do volunteer/aid work with no religious agenda, are you even a missionary then? Does the word even have any meaning if you're not distinguishing it from "just ordinary volunteer who could be of any (or no) religion because their religious background has no relevance to what they're doing"?
They chose to die for their false god by going to Haiti and being killed by a gang these people are willing to be slaughtered and scarifced for a man who doesn't exist they died for nothing!
@@OldNewsIsGoodNews The first sign of not making good informed decisions is they are christians no matter their age. I have no sympathy for them. Would they have had sympathy for a atheist that walked into a lions cage and got malled hell no they wouldn't.
@@Nerobyrne So a invisible make believe god told them to go there? They belonged in insane-asylum not another country forcing their make believe god on others.
Sorry but the missionary from Missouri would have been better off staying home and working to get the Confederate monuments in Missouri removed. There is plenty of violence in St Louis. Charity begins at home rather than some Messianic vision that you can go somewhere else and believe me some church was paying for them to be there instead of helping people in their own community. Missionary work is like a Mary Kay MLM
Yeah my mom and i donate to local charities, because its hard to know if non local charities are using the money for what we donate it for. Ive donated to a non local animal shelter because i thought they were in a rough spot, only to be sent a bunch of personalized stationary to get me to donate again, i didn't donate my five bucks for stationary,i sent five bucks so they could care for the animals 😡. Now we drop off food at our local animal shelter, so we don't get sent junk. We have to donate money to the food cupboard because unless there's a food drive they dont accept personal donations.
So it is better to remove monuments than to take care of living people? Interesting opinion. I once read an interview with a survivor of the Channel Island occupation. He said something like "Those people who say we shouldn't help people in Africa and that Charity begins at home. If the Canadians and Australians had felt that way during the war, I wouldn't be alive now."
@@Nerobyrne So . . . you are actually arguing that if colonizers hadn't been motivated by selfless charity (?), then WW2 would not have happened (?), and the Channel Islanders wouldn't have needed those care packets from Australia. THAT'S your argument. And you clearly think it's . . . clever! Well, as long as you're happy with it, I guess. But since we live in the real world, not in the alternate-history fantasy novel you seem to be writing, Colonization was not charitable, WW2 did happen, and the Channel Islanders really did need those care packets.
Are you only just figuring this out? Have you heard how St. Peter died? Or Jesus? Have you heard about Jean Donovan? Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Oscar Romero? Dr. Martin Luther King Jr? Maximillian Kolbe? The "She Said Yes" Girl? Count Claus Maria Schenk von Stauffenberg? Yeah, God's "employees" get killed all the time. Also in recent news, sky is blue! The bigger problem is that you're acting smug about the murder of these two young people, as though it amounts to some kind of "win" for your side. What "side" is that, exactly?
Yeah, risking their lives lives to help people apparently is considered to be Darwin Award. Snow flakes like you are less willing to take risks, and just want to stay in their comfy homes to do nothing but complain.
Geoff Shroeder is a listener, y'all. Also, it's my understanding that he runs as republican in Idaho because it's darn near the ONLY way to get elected here. Edit post-listen: Jess, love you to bits, but I think there might be an uncharitable take on Goeff's role in Idaho. Idaho is weird - lived here my whole life. And there is a deep conservatism that is cultural and hard to shake. The conservatism I mean here is not capital C, GOP style conservative (although it is of course the overwhelming majority here), but the "reluctant and fearful of change and anything different" kind of conservative. We have a lot of courageous progressives who vote for good change - Miranda Marquit is a shining example. But their progressive votes are on a relative extreme that is entirely outweighed by the conservative majority. So, people like Geoff are a necessary component for change in Idaho. They massage slow change to keep the Overton window from shifting exclusively right while progressive candidates can gain momentum and power. We need progressives here, and I am one such progressive who works in local politics to push that cultural shift. *I* need people like Geoff. There are movers and there are shakers. Geoff is a mover who gives the shakers room to grow.
Excellent take on this. I had similar thoughts as well - one guy can’t change the whole system but he can open the door to it and also prevent someone more extreme from voting in his place. He’s making the best out of a bad situation there and I have so much respect for him.
41:55 Catholic School survivor here. Can confirm. Catholic school drove me away from the faith. I stopped going to church around high school. (It was a PreK-8 school - so I was in that school for ten years.) Everyone I know who went to that school and was Catholic - left the faith. (You didn't have to be Catholic to attend this school.) My grief was more with the school than the church. (The double standards was the main part. Sometime last year, I started discussing my Catholic School horror stories with someone I trust. The bullying, harassment, name calling, body shaming, s*xual harassment, etc. I told someone - who never stepped foot into my Catholic School - about my stories from there. I think I accidentally traumatized him with one of my worst stories.) The church honestly was not bad when I attended, but I digress.
Are you being sarcastic? They didn't "cover" the story at all. They gave us zero information. They just made the most negative assumptions that they could and used those assumptions to tear down two murder victims. The female podcaster admits many times that she didn't know what kind of work they were doing, but then goes ahead and says their work wasn't important, so that she can blame and belittle them for doing such work. At the end of their spiel, I knew as much about the couple and their work in Haiti as I knew before I clicked. The only thing I learned about was the character of the podcasters, who seem singularly lacking in either compassion or intellectual curiosity.
Hum? What did we learn? So knowing what I know about mother teresa... was she a savior for the poor or was poverty an opportunity for her? She didn't seem to save any rich people there in India?
I grew up going to an SBC and to me, Esther was a thought -free, pretty girl that only acted according to what her uncle (father figure) told her to do. She was nothing but a pawn in a man's world.
Wikipedia is pretty good. There was a time when it was bad but groups of people got together and tightened the editing rules. Also they require editors to supply citations.
I don't think these people wanted your sympathy. I think they wanted to protect kids in a country that was facing despair. I don't think this is a God's work case rather than a case of people who gave their lives for others
Nooooo don’t call Michigan the Florida of the Midwest. We at least have a pretty progressive government at the moment (but we tend to swing so that’s kinda scary).
After the Christian teacher indoctrination, I want to see a math teacher. Workout the division; On the black board. Of the fabled 5 fishes and 2 loafs of bread, Feeing the "Multitudes". Oh Maybe the loafs and fish were very large? Really? Like feeding "Multitudes" large? Okie Dokie .. LOL. I mean thats a lot of Mc Fillet of fish sammieges Just Say'n
I only truly feel sorry for the young woman. The young man, his fate undeserved of course, but he must have known what it was like yet brought her to it.
@@EpistemiaWeyk I disagree. The man basically said he wouldn’t stay with her unless she went to Haiti with him. That’s a lot of pressure, she would have to choose between the relationship and a country I assume she had never visited before. I’m sure he presented it in the best light and you can’t forget, they were in their early 20s.
This was hard to listen to, because it didn't feel like a conversation between two people, or like two equal co-hosts, or like an interview with a guest. I heard Hemant talking about some of this in a video by himself, and his presentation style when alone is very similar, which feels awkward since there are two people in this podcast. There are a lot of ways to include two people where it feels like both people get a chance to add value, and this style didn't take advantage of Jessica's presence. (And I don't think any of us want a shouting match or a ton of interruptions just so she gets a word in.) 27:41 was a good example of this awkwardness, and I don't blame Jessica for it. If both of them were taking turns presenting and throwing rhetorical questions at the audience, that would make more sense than this one-sided style.
If that's intentional, it's really weird to me. Whenever I wind up in a room where I'm just there to react to what someone else says, nodding along, making exclamations, and that's it, I look for the quickest opportunity to leave and find a 2-sided conversation elsewhere. I don't need someone else to represent my reaction like this. Maybe that's why I find the format so uncomfortable, because I would really dislike being the "Jessica" in this format.
Yeah, it's weird. People here will typically eat you up when you ask "Why is Jessica here?" though. We have to hear way too much about her life. Hemet doesn't spew about his personal life, after all.
They also ran an orphanage. I'm sure it would be extremely hard to leave the children. I have done comparable work in the states and you do become like family with the kids.
Based only on the information given, I think it was a reasonably reckless decision that 23 year olds are supposed to do. He grew up there and wanted to help the community, why shouldn’t he want to share the risk? Whoever was running the school would be at risk, maybe he wanted to risk himself rather than sending money to pay a local to be at risk. Like Charlie Sheen says in Platoon , “why should only poor boys be dying?” That’s a morally valid thing to do, since he had ties there and he was doing some genuinely helpful things along with however much religious stuff. It’s not the same as the sentinel island guy who had no purpose except religion and was risking spreading disease to the natives
This is probably gonna be unpopular, but missionary work is just a different form of colonialism.
It's disgusting and people should be arrested for it
Your just a being a communist.
Well, thoughts and prayers helped there as much as it helps our school shootings.... it is sad they died, but lots of others are dying there. It's sad that religion brain washed them to lead to the end of thier lifes.
That also means that Madalyn Murray O'Hair was brainwashed by atheism to lose her head at the end of her life?
You basically just insulted them for trying to help people down there. Intitle commie.
They were warned, and God didn't give them a pass. Are we supposed to feel bad for their choices.
That's part of my thing: Yes, they were on the young side of adulthood, but they were still old enough to make informed, reasoned choices. I would also have a lot more sympathy for people who were in someplace like Haiti *just* to help, with no ulterior/secondary motives. If you want to go someplace to help the people there, and you're willing to put yourself at risk for it, I suppose that's admirable in a way. But why tie it to religious stuff? It's not necessary, and there's something so icky about that.
I've also had convos with people about this story where they say, "Well, not all missionaries are pushing their religion on people." And I'm just like, first off, I'm pretty sure that's not the case for these guys, and second, If you're going someplace to do volunteer/aid work with no religious agenda, are you even a missionary then? Does the word even have any meaning if you're not distinguishing it from "just ordinary volunteer who could be of any (or no) religion because their religious background has no relevance to what they're doing"?
God is the reason they were there.
Jesus gave his disciples the command to do exactly this.
Wish my ancestors had defended their culture better
They chose to die for their false god by going to Haiti and being killed by a gang these people are willing to be slaughtered and scarifced for a man who doesn't exist they died for nothing!
@@OldNewsIsGoodNews The first sign of not making good informed decisions is they are christians no matter their age. I have no sympathy for them. Would they have had sympathy for a atheist that walked into a lions cage and got malled hell no they wouldn't.
@@Nerobyrne So a invisible make believe god told them to go there? They belonged in insane-asylum not another country forcing their make believe god on others.
Sorry but the missionary from Missouri would have been better off staying home and working to get the Confederate monuments in Missouri removed. There is plenty of violence in St Louis. Charity begins at home rather than some Messianic vision that you can go somewhere else and believe me some church was paying for them to be there instead of helping people in their own community. Missionary work is like a Mary Kay MLM
Missionaries are just colonizers who use words instead of weapons
Yeah my mom and i donate to local charities, because its hard to know if non local charities are using the money for what we donate it for. Ive donated to a non local animal shelter because i thought they were in a rough spot, only to be sent a bunch of personalized stationary to get me to donate again, i didn't donate my five bucks for stationary,i sent five bucks so they could care for the animals 😡. Now we drop off food at our local animal shelter, so we don't get sent junk. We have to donate money to the food cupboard because unless there's a food drive they dont accept personal donations.
So it is better to remove monuments than to take care of living people? Interesting opinion.
I once read an interview with a survivor of the Channel Island occupation. He said something like "Those people who say we shouldn't help people in Africa and that Charity begins at home. If the Canadians and Australians had felt that way during the war, I wouldn't be alive now."
@@valgardener7656 and if the colonialists had felt that way, there never would have been a need to save anyone
@@Nerobyrne So . . . you are actually arguing that if colonizers hadn't been motivated by selfless charity (?), then WW2 would not have happened (?), and the Channel Islanders wouldn't have needed those care packets from Australia. THAT'S your argument. And you clearly think it's . . . clever! Well, as long as you're happy with it, I guess.
But since we live in the real world, not in the alternate-history fantasy novel you seem to be writing, Colonization was not charitable, WW2 did happen, and the Channel Islanders really did need those care packets.
Re: Missionaries. It would appear that god is unwilling (or unable) to protect his employees. Yikes!!
Are you only just figuring this out? Have you heard how St. Peter died? Or Jesus? Have you heard about Jean Donovan? Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Oscar Romero? Dr. Martin Luther King Jr? Maximillian Kolbe? The "She Said Yes" Girl? Count Claus Maria Schenk von Stauffenberg? Yeah, God's "employees" get killed all the time. Also in recent news, sky is blue!
The bigger problem is that you're acting smug about the murder of these two young people, as though it amounts to some kind of "win" for your side. What "side" is that, exactly?
The Seinfeld discussion hit home. I'd always wondered what felt off about Seinfeld to me. It so often felt cruel to me.
That's what I thought the show was about vile people ruining the lives of those around them and sobtaging any progress they made
I'd like to nominate these missionaries for a Darwin Award.
Yeah, risking their lives lives to help people apparently is considered to be Darwin Award. Snow flakes like you are less willing to take risks, and just want to stay in their comfy homes to do nothing but complain.
If Texas has the last super in the curriculum do they have the kangaroo, 28 disciples, and 3 christs. 😊
Geoff Shroeder is a listener, y'all. Also, it's my understanding that he runs as republican in Idaho because it's darn near the ONLY way to get elected here.
Edit post-listen:
Jess, love you to bits, but I think there might be an uncharitable take on Goeff's role in Idaho. Idaho is weird - lived here my whole life. And there is a deep conservatism that is cultural and hard to shake. The conservatism I mean here is not capital C, GOP style conservative (although it is of course the overwhelming majority here), but the "reluctant and fearful of change and anything different" kind of conservative. We have a lot of courageous progressives who vote for good change - Miranda Marquit is a shining example. But their progressive votes are on a relative extreme that is entirely outweighed by the conservative majority. So, people like Geoff are a necessary component for change in Idaho. They massage slow change to keep the Overton window from shifting exclusively right while progressive candidates can gain momentum and power. We need progressives here, and I am one such progressive who works in local politics to push that cultural shift. *I* need people like Geoff. There are movers and there are shakers. Geoff is a mover who gives the shakers room to grow.
Excellent take on this. I had similar thoughts as well - one guy can’t change the whole system but he can open the door to it and also prevent someone more extreme from voting in his place. He’s making the best out of a bad situation there and I have so much respect for him.
Please never say that Michigan is the Florida of the midwest.
Agreed. As a guy raised and educated in the North and now living in Florida, please believe me when I say one Florida is bad enough.
41:55 Catholic School survivor here. Can confirm. Catholic school drove me away from the faith. I stopped going to church around high school. (It was a PreK-8 school - so I was in that school for ten years.) Everyone I know who went to that school and was Catholic - left the faith. (You didn't have to be Catholic to attend this school.)
My grief was more with the school than the church. (The double standards was the main part. Sometime last year, I started discussing my Catholic School horror stories with someone I trust. The bullying, harassment, name calling, body shaming, s*xual harassment, etc. I told someone - who never stepped foot into my Catholic School - about my stories from there. I think I accidentally traumatized him with one of my worst stories.) The church honestly was not bad when I attended, but I digress.
The church was always bad.
Thank you for your compassionate coverage of this story.
Why? This is what happens when you believe lies.
Are you being sarcastic? They didn't "cover" the story at all. They gave us zero information. They just made the most negative assumptions that they could and used those assumptions to tear down two murder victims. The female podcaster admits many times that she didn't know what kind of work they were doing, but then goes ahead and says their work wasn't important, so that she can blame and belittle them for doing such work. At the end of their spiel, I knew as much about the couple and their work in Haiti as I knew before I clicked. The only thing I learned about was the character of the podcasters, who seem singularly lacking in either compassion or intellectual curiosity.
9:41 Please _do not_ send them to Norway. We have politicians and christians that are bonkers!
Hum? What did we learn?
So knowing what I know about mother teresa... was she a savior for the poor or was poverty an opportunity for her? She didn't seem to save any rich people there in India?
I grew up going to an SBC and to me, Esther was a thought -free, pretty girl that only acted according to what her uncle (father figure) told her to do. She was nothing but a pawn in a man's world.
Sadly, this happens more often than we realize : (
Wikipedia is pretty good. There was a time when it was bad but groups of people got together and tightened the editing rules.
Also they require editors to supply citations.
I have no sympathy for self inflicted wounds.
I don't think these people wanted your sympathy. I think they wanted to protect kids in a country that was facing despair. I don't think this is a God's work case rather than a case of people who gave their lives for others
@@EpistemiaWeyk You are delirious.
Gods work, god results.
Nooooo don’t call Michigan the Florida of the Midwest. We at least have a pretty progressive government at the moment (but we tend to swing so that’s kinda scary).
oh good my friends are back to talk at me
They brought this on themselves!
After the Christian teacher indoctrination,
I want to see a math teacher.
Workout the division; On the black board.
Of the fabled 5 fishes and 2 loafs of bread, Feeing the "Multitudes".
Oh Maybe the loafs and fish were very large?
Really?
Like feeding "Multitudes" large?
Okie Dokie .. LOL.
I mean thats a lot of Mc Fillet of fish sammieges
Just Say'n
"Alright, see these loaves and fishes? Ok turn around."
*piles on more bread and fishes*
"OK, turn back! Now they've been multiplied!"
Hemant & Jessica! Yay!
Darwin Awards!
I only truly feel sorry for the young woman. The young man, his fate undeserved of course, but he must have known what it was like yet brought her to it.
Rude to assume they didn't both come to understand what they were doing.
@@EpistemiaWeyk I disagree. The man basically said he wouldn’t stay with her unless she went to Haiti with him. That’s a lot of pressure, she would have to choose between the relationship and a country I assume she had never visited before. I’m sure he presented it in the best light and you can’t forget, they were in their early 20s.
This was hard to listen to, because it didn't feel like a conversation between two people, or like two equal co-hosts, or like an interview with a guest. I heard Hemant talking about some of this in a video by himself, and his presentation style when alone is very similar, which feels awkward since there are two people in this podcast. There are a lot of ways to include two people where it feels like both people get a chance to add value, and this style didn't take advantage of Jessica's presence. (And I don't think any of us want a shouting match or a ton of interruptions just so she gets a word in.)
27:41 was a good example of this awkwardness, and I don't blame Jessica for it. If both of them were taking turns presenting and throwing rhetorical questions at the audience, that would make more sense than this one-sided style.
This is the style. Jessica is the US in the room. She is the reaction to the presentation. She is the gut feel of us. Raw unfiltered and open.
If that's intentional, it's really weird to me. Whenever I wind up in a room where I'm just there to react to what someone else says, nodding along, making exclamations, and that's it, I look for the quickest opportunity to leave and find a 2-sided conversation elsewhere. I don't need someone else to represent my reaction like this. Maybe that's why I find the format so uncomfortable, because I would really dislike being the "Jessica" in this format.
Yeah, it's weird. People here will typically eat you up when you ask "Why is Jessica here?" though. We have to hear way too much about her life. Hemet doesn't spew about his personal life, after all.
We know what you taught last summer
They also ran an orphanage. I'm sure it would be extremely hard to leave the children. I have done comparable work in the states and you do become like family with the kids.
Thank you, no one wants to point out that they had kids there that they were trying go protect.
Based only on the information given, I think it was a reasonably reckless decision that 23 year olds are supposed to do. He grew up there and wanted to help the community, why shouldn’t he want to share the risk? Whoever was running the school would be at risk, maybe he wanted to risk himself rather than sending money to pay a local to be at risk. Like Charlie Sheen says in Platoon , “why should only poor boys be dying?” That’s a morally valid thing to do, since he had ties there and he was doing some genuinely helpful things along with however much religious stuff.
It’s not the same as the sentinel island guy who had no purpose except religion and was risking spreading disease to the natives
Brainwashing traumatized children is not a virtue.
Send rep Crockett there
And?
I so wanted Queen Esther to be represented by the Veggie Tales episode. Lol
I'm sending thoughts and prayers.
Thoughts and prayers
Thoughts and prayers my ass
God is good , all the time
Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary proof. Prove it.
@@FYMASMD considering the context can’t you see he sarcasm
Link to textbook content?