WTB Bridgers are the answer to your problem at 12 - 15psi. Believe me, I know. Good article guys. Nice to hear some sense. I converted from 30 years of MTB to eMTB 18months ago and I have never had so much fun. In fact I'd say that they are life changing. To me, eMTB has never been about having an easy time. Its about being able to ride the impossible.
Thomas Marvin I can understand the confusion: Relative height vs absolute: in relative height, yes, Snowdon is second, but that ignores a number of very large mountains in Scotland, including Ben Macdui, which has a summit some 230m higher than Snowdon. Relative height is only good for determining whether something is its own mountain, or merely a secondary summit to another peak.
That is the 'relative' height meaning in regards to its place in a range, not the exact elevation. It's relative height makes it 3rd, its elevation makes it 57th.
given there's a pretty common acceptance of it being 3rd highest (obviously depending on how you choose to classify it), we'll stick to that - 57th wouldn't make for a great story either ;)
Thomas Marvin I've never heard it referred to as '3rd highest' except as relative height, which is more a tool for geographers than walkers or climbers. I get that '3rd' is more impressive, but it's also misleading, and the even better 'highest in Wales' is available.
Really enjoyed watching that. I'll probably never own an e-bike but I totally respect those who choose to. As long as you're out there enjoying yourself what does it matter?
More eMTB videos please. Totally loved this one and your evaluation on eMTBs was totally SPOT-ON! Unfortunately in many parts of the world supposed "hard-core" mountain bikers will scorn you for going "electric" but who gives a f*ck! I'm 58 years old and if I could afford one I would buy one (even just a HT) yesterday - I had a play on a couple for half an hour (including the Levo FS) and I am totally sold - no more missing epic downhills (where I am always one of the fastest - gravity I guess!) just because I haven't got the stamina any more to climb to the top in the first place!
Thanks for the feedback! They're a hot topic at the moment, and we do have plans in the future to test more, both in print and online. personally i like the ability to go out for a 2 hour ride and do twice as much descending than i might otherwise, however i still love my 'normal' bikes too!
I've been looking into getting the Levo, so thanks for the report back! I have been thinking about getting it though to commute with in Texas and then play on the weekends.
Well done lads for the most unbiased test I've seen. Also totally correct on the Turbo Levo. It may look a fantastic MTB . It falls way short of the Bosch CX Line & The Yamaha which both have a Torque, Cadence & Speed sensor. This Brose motor only has a acceleration response.It is more suitable for long easy trails, not steep rocky technical stuff I have a 2016 Scott E-Spark 710. I can climb a 40% hill no probs. Also with the Bosch CX Line motor even climbing steep rock steps, you can stop, balance and have look for a good line, and because the response is instant, set off with no effort. BTW The weight of the Turbo Levo is around 23kg compared to my Scott E-Spark 710 at 19.5kg. Say no more :-) Also the max assist level is 25kph = 15.5mph
I'm seriously considering the Specialized Turbo Levo 2017 model and will be test riding one this weekend, however after reading your comments about the acceleration response I might look at the other bikes with the Bosch motor. Have you ridden both to compare yourself? Is there a price difference between the two as well or basically all the same?
@John Lambert. All the major MTB manufacturers use the Bosch The motor is the Performance Line CX with the 14t front ring and 11 speed cassette or higher at the rear. 11 to 42. If you can afford £7500 then there's this www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Moustache-Samedi-Trail-Limited-2017 With the Bosch and an insane 12 speed 10 to 50t rear cassette. I've also ridden the new Shimano motor. It doesn't give that kick up the backside that's needed to get over rock steps like the Bosch. As in this review avoid the 10 speed like the plague :-)
I live in Australia so I guess that bike would be at least $15k which is definitely beyond my budget. Looks pretty decent though!! The response issue with the Levos may not be an issue for me, but I am worried about spending $8k to $10k on a bike and then finding it's not going to do what I want it to do. Hopefully the test ride will prove me wrong :-)
I have a Lapierre with Yamaha motor and it is more powerful than Bosch on lower cadence and it is cheaper too. Bosch system does have gear sensor so shifting is a bit more easier when pedaling. Also one big difference is that Yamaha have no internal gearing and allows for a front shifter while Bosch can only have rear shifting. When you are out of battery you can actually pedal home like a normal bike on a Yamaha but with Bosch that is not possible. I do prefer Yamaha but other might prefer Bosch better. Test it yourself is the best way to find out.
Its ok to make a point, but what's the specs on your bike. ie, the size of the front sprocket and rear cassette. How much does the bike weigh. Having more power means nothing. It is dependant on how the power is delivered ;-)
I've been smashing up the hill on a Smart Motion Hyper Sonic. It's not competing against the expensive stuff, with its modest price of $4800 NZD. Bafang Max Drive motor, torque sensing and cadence sensing, quick response time. Certainly not on the same level, but it's every bit as fun. All the things I don't like about it would be an easy upgrade. (dropper post, bigger brakes) Definitely a slightly more affordable option for people who want to give it a go
thanks for that great video there! Can you elaborate more about the mondraker craft XR - didnt quite understand what you mean at 08:22 re clutch and 10 speed - grateful for further info about this, tried the XR this am up slopes and was impressed but aint no bike expert and your views are greatly valued
i live within 10 miles of snowdon and have walked up all the paths. and about 90% of that video was not parts of the paths up or down snowdon. Some look like coed y brenin witch is 30 miles from snowdon?
I'm glad to see others are trying out eMTB's so thanks for sharing! Did you all by any chance get to use the Specialized Mission Control App for the Turbo Levo? The App has a Tune Settings menu where you can change the Acceleration Response. I have mine set to Race and have no issues with the assistance kicking in on a climb. :)
My first thought too. I generally ride on 'race' response setting and it feels instant to me. Perhaps this was a press bike that had been adjusted to be less responsive using the companion app by a previous user????
Hey Judy We did play with the mission control app, and indeed adjusted the Acceleration Response setting. Our feeling is that the issue lies with the sensors, rather than the way the power is fed in to the system (which is what the AR feature adjusts). With AR at max, we still had a lot of dead pedal stroke with no power, suggesting there aren't enough sensors within the system. It was most noticeable when ridden back to back with the Bosch motor, where you can literally ratchet your way up technical sections, turning the cranks maybe only 1/6th of a revolution at a time, whereas this isn't possible with the Brose motor, in our experience.
Hi Thomas that sucks I'm sorry to hear that you all still had dead pedal strokes :( hope you guys contacted Specialized about it so they can address this in their future development. Thanks for the response and awesome content!
Nice one guys! Its great to see honest videos of how an EMTB makes you feel. Its our passion to allow other eBikers to experience the same as you have. Do you have plans for more EMTB reviews?? :)
This was varied through testing, however we feel the issue is with the sensors - even with acceleration response at max, there's still the lag in power delivery, but when the power is delivered, it's delivered with much more punch.
Great job looking for the pros and cons, I hadn't really thought about how much fun a techincal climb could be instead of just suffering up it at max bpm, very interesting! (hopefully nobody from my bike club reads this, they want to burn all ebikes and riders at the stake as witches with black magic etc.)
Beg to differ on no durable + tire, the Surly Dirt Wizard is an awesome contender. After the past season racing Enduros, Park and all around East Coast Pa knar have not had one flat!
I think plus tires are still pretty much in beta but they should improve over time. Glad the blowout didn't happen in the front as going faster on an e-bike could be pretty scary!
Thanks for the review. What model year was the Specialized? Their website says “the custom motor is also the only one on the market that features instant pedal engagement, so you get immediate power the moment you need it,” which is at odds with your review of it?
I'd really like to see a decent comparison between the four systems currently available. I'm curious how different the Brose, Shimano, Bosh and Yamaha are when it comes to responsiveness and assistance characterstics.
Interesting hearing about Bosch motor response, how does the Yamaha motor compare to the Bosch? Also did the batteries get you to the top of Snowdon, how much charge was left?
What do you guys think of E-bikes + Strava issues? Did you guys throw your ride up on Strava? If so, did you put it in the "E MTB" category? I find it difficult to believe that we won't see a TON of cheaters uploading rides on their E-bikes that just leave it in the ride category and snipe KOMs left and right. But then I guess there's not much to be done about that.
People should care less about that app and more about just having fun. Who cares if an ebike stole your kom? Stava is literally the worst thing to happen to this sport.
That's your opinion and I respect it. But many people use Strava as a training tool, and it works well as such. Not only that, it's just a great way to track all your rides and see what you've done over the course of a season. Granted, you don't have to care about KOMs if you use it, but I personally think it's fun to compare myself against others. Does it mean that I'm always concerned about my Strava times when I'm out? Of course not. I like to just get out and have fun as much as the next person. But it also doesn't make me an asshole just because I get something from using Strava as well. Happy riding!
I've had more than a few 'conversations' with people who I have slightly got in the way of when sessioning a section of the trail who have been absolutely raging about me 'costing them a kom'. I always move off to the side as far as possible as well, I really don't want to be hit by someone flying down the hill! As a training tool it has its uses but as soon as it crosses that line and becomes the reason to ride (to get the KOM) it makes the sport lose its fun factor in my eyes. Might as well be a roadie if all you care about is your time. But hey, different strokes for different folks.
I definitely agree that there are plenty of people using Strava who become obsessed with KOMs and leaderboards. I really don't have a problem with it, as long as your riding doesn't affect others. I've had the experience as well of having someone yell "Strava!" at me as they try to go around me on the trail. And I agree that it's not only annoying, but counterproductive to amicable relations between the mountain bike and hiking communities. This is a huge issue and there have even been court cases that have used Strava speed data to get trails closed to mountain bikers. That all said, we all like to have fun, and lots of mountain bikers like to go fast, Strava or not. I also don't have a problem with this, as long as proper trail etiquette is followed. I've almost been run over after a crash by guys who I know aren't on Strava flying down a dangerous section of trail. So here's the thing. There are always going to be douchebags, whether they have an app to use or not. Does Strava have a tendency to bring out douchebag tendencies in people? I think so. But I also think those people were already douchebags to begin with. And I'm certainly not saying I don't go for some KOMs from time to time. But in my eyes it's about getting after it with an awareness of your fellow trail user. If I'm going fast, it doesn't matter if it's for the sake of Strava or for the sake of having a good time (as I'm sure was the case with the guys who almost ran over me), the same rules apply. If someone's coming up the trail as I'm hauling ass down, I know in my mind it's my job to stop and let them pass, or if they've seen me coming and have already moved, then to slow down and acknowledge their awesomeness. Haul ass, have fun, and treat fellow users and the trail with respect.
Good video but I never heard that complain about the Turbo Levo - which of course doesn't mean it cannot be true. I guess I'll have to test it as I am playing with the thought getting one. Do you guys think if it's an issue can it be solved with a firmware/software upgrade?
I knew about the mission control app and I just checked it out in more details. You are right the acceleration response can be set. Probably it was set to ECO or normal during the test. It's kind of misleading to give a negative conclusion about something that was most probably a user error and wasn't set properly. For me the only missing thing from the Levo is the walk assist but I could live with it. I like that the battery is integrated and there is no useless display but I can connect it to my Garmin.
***** OK it wasn't clear from the video but if not enough sensors that can be a problem. You can set the expected distance in the app so it will manage the power to have enough juice until the end although I don't know how does it work in practice.
I'm a heavier person at 250 lbs... would you say a plus tire would be a worse choice than a 26" tire/bike?.. thanks.. truly enjoyable video.. great camera work guys !
I am not there yet at the age of 57 but who knows. I know someone who has had some very bad injuries and has had multiple body parts replaced and the ebike is working for him. I hope I can stay healthy and avoid this all together.
Levo delay is a setting. Unfortunately you need app installed in your phone to adjust. Don't go out on first ride without the app. Might actually want to ride a bit BEFORE going on adventure.
With the extra weight of these bikes do the shocks have to be specially tuned to take that into account? Surely the extra mass plus the rider would put a normal shock at its limits wouldn't it?
Not really - the weight difference of the full bike+rider is relatively negligible, when you look at the weigh differences in riders bike and suspension manufacturers have to work in. These ebikes are probably around 7kg heavier than a regular bike, yet I weigh probably in the region of 15kg more than Jon, and myself am a fair bit lighter than anything approaching maximum weight limits.
Surely with that many punctures in close proximity to one another it cant have been penetrations to the tire itself. Must have been an installation error - Not removing the cause of the puncture or rushing it, putting the tube in incorrectly and then getting a pinch flat as a result?
Up on further poking around, at some point I put a massive tear in the rear tyre. I think the first puncture was a genuine pinch (it was set up tubeless), but I reckon the 2nd and subsequent third puncture was due to tearing the tyre on my 2nd puncture - i came off a small drop at speed and think i landed on a sharp-ish bit of rock.
it would certainly help, but i think it extends to plus tyres as a whole too. on an ebike this would be fine as weight is a much smaller consideration, however on a regular trail bike, the weight versus protection balance is going to be a lot harder to crack...
I had to laugh when the commented how "Ruinous Expensive" E-Bikes are, Scott E- Genius 2017 model is £4599. The 2017 Scott Genius 2017 costs £4399. So for £300 extra you can have a Bosch Motor + battery and display ;-) Another point,. I have been walking for 40years. and never come across the term " Relative Height" till mentioned here
6:41 This does sort of indicate something which has been a problem for a while now, doesn't it? Manufacturers, worried about being left behind, pushing out 27.5", plus or pedal assist bikes, without developing them to the point where they're actually sorted first. With the late introduction of things like Boost and wide rims, the resurgence of long travel 29ers and now a market of flimsy and finicky plus-size tyres (after all the faff from already dithering between 3.0", then 2.8" and now maybe 2.6" as a standard size), it seems like a lot of companies are screwing their first shots with new products by rushing them out, then trying to patch them on the go, rather than considering this stuff before hand.
There's certainly some issues to be resolved. plus tyres are certainly pretty fickle, and yep, we've punctured plenty of them (usually when tubed - tubeless is a lot more reliable). however in my opinion they work great on hardtails and perhaps bikes aimed at slightly less experienced riders, where the additional grip and ability to get away with small mistakes is really handy. at this point, once you've got your pressures right (which can be a pain), they're pretty good in my opinion. but yeah, as plus and ebikes become more popular, i think there will be further developments in tech.
Yes, plus size tire suck. The sidewalls are way too thin. Where did you hear they are going to make e bike specific tires? I have used huck norris and maxxis tires but still get pinch flats and sidewall tears.
At £4600 I'd much rather buy a nice high end (and lighter) full sus or dh bike. I've never liked the idea of assisted riding. Removes the whole "yes I just climbed that!" feeling when a motor is putting in 50% of the work for you. Disagree with me all you want, but the cost of an e-bike to me isn't worth it.
Tom Clayton have you experienced one though? I sold my numerous bikes after the first experience. Wanna go? Go to www.rideelectric.co.uk and book an experience ride...
Wow that Scott looks absolutely awful imo. The only one that looks nice is the specialized imo. But I’m my opinion, the only nice bikes are the focus ones. Especially the Jam2.
I get the appeal of e-bikes, but this is really mountain "biking". After all, if you like the ease of motors a dirt bike will be cheaper and perhaps even more "fun".
I'm still not sure I would call these E-Bikes Mountainbikes. They are two wheeled and have a motor. Isn't that a motorbike? Also there are too many issues surrounding trail usage and how they are to be classified.
Patrick Logan yes and a butterfly is made of butter. People just need to be more understanding on both sides and realize that regular MTN bikers had to fight the same kind of hate at one point.
But with trail usage being questioned it makes these bike a hot topic. Lots of trail centers here in Canada are designated non motorized only but mountainbike friendly. Where does that leave these? If these become more popular are some centers going to shut out bikes since its to hard to regulate?
Patrick Logan No, their going to let ebike in after realizing that they don't tear up trails or whatever other ideas people have come up with. My point is that the hate is dumb and unjustified.
If you look into lots of articles on biking sites like pinkbike they bring up all the reasons why ebikes are controversial. I personally dont think the controversy in unjustified. The History and Deception - Opinion article sums it up really well. The first comment provides a nice summary if you say TLDR.
Patrick Logan He gave a very unfair comparison in that article. Not sure why hes equating pedalelec to full on no human power. He brings up a good point with like management though, that's a fair concern. Usage is more complex than yes or no. Definitely will be dependent on many factors. Trail centers should limit speed. It would be nice if they required some type of registration as well for ebikes. Work needs to be done to ensure that ebikes don't take advantage of the situation, he was right to point that out. But do the work, don't just ban them outright! Also the connotation that regular MTN bikers are above e bikers is some pretentious bull. He brought up some good points, but that piece was alittle too nostalgic for me.
These are iligal to ride on bridleways ,restricted byways ,or any other national cycle paths unless said path is a road,its very clear laws that have been used to remove motorized transport from most of britains trails and Ebikes are motorized so I,m afraid if your bike exceeds 6mph your breaking the law.
Each to their own... compared to an electric motorbike you'll find the power levels are tiny. I seem to remember an ebike puts out around .3 of a horsepower, whereas an electric motor bike can easily put out between 30-60HP - 100x + more. They also ride significantly differently, have no throttle and unlike a motorbike, on an ebike the rider's body weight makes up the majority of the overall mass. fortunately, nobody will force you to ride one :)
Actually they are mopeds by name (motorised pedaling) . I had your attitude a couple of years back and so I bought an electric MTB . I now have three Ebikes . Go figure .
I listened to the same attitude/argument from Snow Skiers about Snowboarders back in the 80's and 90's. Some Ski Resorts "outlawed snowboards." Now 80% of the people on the mountain are riding Snowboards! OPEN your mind, go further, go faster & have more FUN on an ebike! I ride the new S-Works Carbon Turbo! It is unreal!!!!
WTB Bridgers are the answer to your problem at 12 - 15psi. Believe me, I know. Good article guys. Nice to hear some sense. I converted from 30 years of MTB to eMTB 18months ago and I have never had so much fun. In fact I'd say that they are life changing. To me, eMTB has never been about having an easy time. Its about being able to ride the impossible.
Same story for me. Ebikes are so fast and so fun!
Snowdon is the highest mountain in Wales, but the 57th highest in the UK- all of the 56 higher are in Scotland.
Not according to Wiki! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountains_of_the_British_Isles_by_relative_height
Thomas Marvin I can understand the confusion: Relative height vs absolute: in relative height, yes, Snowdon is second, but that ignores a number of very large mountains in Scotland, including Ben Macdui, which has a summit some 230m higher than Snowdon. Relative height is only good for determining whether something is its own mountain, or merely a secondary summit to another peak.
That is the 'relative' height meaning in regards to its place in a range, not the exact elevation. It's relative height makes it 3rd, its elevation makes it 57th.
given there's a pretty common acceptance of it being 3rd highest (obviously depending on how you choose to classify it), we'll stick to that - 57th wouldn't make for a great story either ;)
Thomas Marvin I've never heard it referred to as '3rd highest' except as relative height, which is more a tool for geographers than walkers or climbers. I get that '3rd' is more impressive, but it's also misleading, and the even better 'highest in Wales' is available.
Really enjoyed watching that. I'll probably never own an e-bike but I totally respect those who choose to. As long as you're out there enjoying yourself what does it matter?
Awesome video guys !
Video quality looks really good in this video!
Thanks! We'll pass your compliments on to our bricklayer and lighting tech.
Gimbals for the chest mounted footage would be great.
More eMTB videos please. Totally loved this one and your evaluation on eMTBs was totally SPOT-ON!
Unfortunately in many parts of the world supposed "hard-core" mountain bikers will scorn you for going "electric" but who gives a f*ck! I'm 58 years old and if I could afford one I would buy one (even just a HT) yesterday - I had a play on a couple for half an hour (including the Levo FS) and I am totally sold - no more missing epic downhills (where I am always one of the fastest - gravity I guess!) just because I haven't got the stamina any more to climb to the top in the first place!
Thanks for the feedback! They're a hot topic at the moment, and we do have plans in the future to test more, both in print and online.
personally i like the ability to go out for a 2 hour ride and do twice as much descending than i might otherwise, however i still love my 'normal' bikes too!
Alexis Hadjisoteriou let us tell you about the green commute initiative - potentially half price 2018 ebikes. www.rideelectric.co.uk
Great video, amazing terrain!
Finally admitting positive thoughts about EMTB. Thank you for taking the risk.
You know you can tune the Brose motor via the app? I don't get that delay on mine.
The Mondraker sounds like the perfect bike for a Yorkshireman such as myself, eeeee-crafty! 😝
I've been looking into getting the Levo, so thanks for the report back! I have been thinking about getting it though to commute with in Texas and then play on the weekends.
took my old ht down the llanberis path last week, great fun. no punctures but you gotta watch them slate edged drainage ruts, they are savage
Well done lads for the most unbiased test I've seen. Also totally correct on the Turbo Levo. It may look a fantastic MTB . It falls way short of the Bosch CX Line & The Yamaha which both have a Torque, Cadence & Speed sensor. This Brose motor only has a acceleration response.It is more suitable for long easy trails, not steep rocky technical stuff I have a 2016 Scott E-Spark 710. I can climb a 40% hill no probs. Also with the Bosch CX Line motor even climbing steep rock steps, you can stop, balance and have look for a good line, and because the response is instant, set off with no effort. BTW The weight of the Turbo Levo is around 23kg compared to my Scott E-Spark 710 at 19.5kg. Say no more :-) Also the max assist level is 25kph = 15.5mph
I'm seriously considering the Specialized Turbo Levo 2017 model and will be test riding one this weekend, however after reading your comments about the acceleration response I might look at the other bikes with the Bosch motor. Have you ridden both to compare yourself? Is there a price difference between the two as well or basically all the same?
@John Lambert. All the major MTB manufacturers use the Bosch The motor is the Performance Line CX with the 14t front ring and 11 speed cassette or higher at the rear. 11 to 42. If you can afford £7500 then there's this www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Moustache-Samedi-Trail-Limited-2017 With the Bosch and an insane 12 speed 10 to 50t rear cassette. I've also ridden the new Shimano motor. It doesn't give that kick up the backside that's needed to get over rock steps like the Bosch. As in this review avoid the 10 speed like the plague :-)
I live in Australia so I guess that bike would be at least $15k which is
definitely beyond my budget. Looks pretty decent though!! The
response issue with the Levos may not be an issue for me, but I am
worried about spending $8k to $10k on a bike and then finding it's not
going to do what I want it to do. Hopefully the test ride will prove me
wrong :-)
I have a Lapierre with Yamaha motor and it is more powerful than Bosch on lower cadence and it is cheaper too. Bosch system does have gear sensor so shifting is a bit more easier when pedaling. Also one big difference is that Yamaha have no internal gearing and allows for a front shifter while Bosch can only have rear shifting. When you are out of battery you can actually pedal home like a normal bike on a Yamaha but with Bosch that is not possible. I do prefer Yamaha but other might prefer Bosch better. Test it yourself is the best way to find out.
Its ok to make a point, but what's the specs on your bike. ie, the size of the front sprocket and rear cassette. How much does the bike weigh. Having more power means nothing. It is dependant on how the power is delivered ;-)
I've been smashing up the hill on a Smart Motion Hyper Sonic. It's not competing against the expensive stuff, with its modest price of $4800 NZD. Bafang Max Drive motor, torque sensing and cadence sensing, quick response time. Certainly not on the same level, but it's every bit as fun. All the things I don't like about it would be an easy upgrade. (dropper post, bigger brakes) Definitely a slightly more affordable option for people who want to give it a go
thanks for that great video there! Can you elaborate more about the mondraker craft XR - didnt quite understand what you mean at 08:22 re clutch and 10 speed - grateful for further info about this, tried the XR this am up slopes and was impressed but aint no bike expert and your views are greatly valued
i live within 10 miles of snowdon and have walked up all the paths. and about 90% of that video was not parts of the paths up or down snowdon. Some look like coed y brenin witch is 30 miles from snowdon?
I'm glad to see others are trying out eMTB's so thanks for sharing! Did you all by any chance get to use the Specialized Mission Control App for the Turbo Levo? The App has a Tune Settings menu where you can change the Acceleration Response. I have mine set to Race and have no issues with the assistance kicking in on a climb. :)
My first thought too. I generally ride on 'race' response setting and it feels instant to me. Perhaps this was a press bike that had been adjusted to be less responsive using the companion app by a previous user????
Thats possible but why would anyone lower that? I could see maybe lowering the power percentages of the 3 modes but not the acceleration response.
If it's a press bike then maybe just to see the difference???
Hey Judy
We did play with the mission control app, and indeed adjusted the Acceleration Response setting. Our feeling is that the issue lies with the sensors, rather than the way the power is fed in to the system (which is what the AR feature adjusts). With AR at max, we still had a lot of dead pedal stroke with no power, suggesting there aren't enough sensors within the system. It was most noticeable when ridden back to back with the Bosch motor, where you can literally ratchet your way up technical sections, turning the cranks maybe only 1/6th of a revolution at a time, whereas this isn't possible with the Brose motor, in our experience.
Hi Thomas that sucks I'm sorry to hear that you all still had dead pedal strokes :( hope you guys contacted Specialized about it so they can address this in their future development. Thanks for the response and awesome content!
Nice one guys! Its great to see honest videos of how an EMTB makes you feel. Its our passion to allow other eBikers to experience the same as you have.
Do you have plans for more EMTB reviews??
:)
Tell me more about the flats. were they punctures, pinch flats or casing tears?
great video can't believe no clutch
Did the Bosch motor have a rattle with the play on the driveshaft?
turbo levo ACCELERATION RESPONSE was set at eco - normal - race?
This was varied through testing, however we feel the issue is with the sensors - even with acceleration response at max, there's still the lag in power delivery, but when the power is delivered, it's delivered with much more punch.
Great job looking for the pros and cons, I hadn't really thought about how much fun a techincal climb could be instead of just suffering up it at max bpm, very interesting! (hopefully nobody from my bike club reads this, they want to burn all ebikes and riders at the stake as witches with black magic etc.)
Beg to differ on no durable + tire, the Surly Dirt Wizard is an awesome contender. After the past season racing Enduros, Park and all around East Coast Pa knar have not had one flat!
I went from a diamondback cool frame to a trek carbon frame should I add a shock seatpost
I think plus tires are still pretty much in beta but they should improve over time.
Glad the blowout didn't happen in the front as going faster on an e-bike could be pretty scary!
Yep, e-bike owners look for techy climbs... which often ends up in slowly rolling up the tracks used by others to ride down. Fast.
Just a point. I have been walking for 40years. and never come across the term " Relative Height" till mentioned here?
Thanks for the review. What model year was the Specialized? Their website says “the custom motor is also the only one on the market that features instant pedal engagement, so you get immediate power the moment you need it,” which is at odds with your review of it?
Spesh did update the motor shortly after our review, and by all accounts, is a lot better now.
Hi can u let me no the weather app u was using plz
Would be so great if you got a Go-pro gimble mount for the chest on these rides :)
someone mayhave already noted, psi in the fat tyres was prob too high should have been 14-18 psi
I'd really like to see a decent comparison between the four systems currently available. I'm curious how different the Brose, Shimano, Bosh and Yamaha are when it comes to responsiveness and assistance characterstics.
Interesting hearing about Bosch motor response, how does the Yamaha motor compare to the Bosch? Also did the batteries get you to the top of Snowdon, how much charge was left?
Have you guys come across the Bultaco Brinco R bike?
What do you guys think of E-bikes + Strava issues? Did you guys throw your ride up on Strava? If so, did you put it in the "E MTB" category? I find it difficult to believe that we won't see a TON of cheaters uploading rides on their E-bikes that just leave it in the ride category and snipe KOMs left and right. But then I guess there's not much to be done about that.
That is a good point. =)
People should care less about that app and more about just having fun. Who cares if an ebike stole your kom? Stava is literally the worst thing to happen to this sport.
That's your opinion and I respect it. But many people use Strava as a training tool, and it works well as such. Not only that, it's just a great way to track all your rides and see what you've done over the course of a season. Granted, you don't have to care about KOMs if you use it, but I personally think it's fun to compare myself against others. Does it mean that I'm always concerned about my Strava times when I'm out? Of course not. I like to just get out and have fun as much as the next person. But it also doesn't make me an asshole just because I get something from using Strava as well. Happy riding!
I've had more than a few 'conversations' with people who I have slightly got in the way of when sessioning a section of the trail who have been absolutely raging about me 'costing them a kom'. I always move off to the side as far as possible as well, I really don't want to be hit by someone flying down the hill! As a training tool it has its uses but as soon as it crosses that line and becomes the reason to ride (to get the KOM) it makes the sport lose its fun factor in my eyes. Might as well be a roadie if all you care about is your time.
But hey, different strokes for different folks.
I definitely agree that there are plenty of people using Strava who become obsessed with KOMs and leaderboards. I really don't have a problem with it, as long as your riding doesn't affect others. I've had the experience as well of having someone yell "Strava!" at me as they try to go around me on the trail. And I agree that it's not only annoying, but counterproductive to amicable relations between the mountain bike and hiking communities. This is a huge issue and there have even been court cases that have used Strava speed data to get trails closed to mountain bikers.
That all said, we all like to have fun, and lots of mountain bikers like to go fast, Strava or not. I also don't have a problem with this, as long as proper trail etiquette is followed. I've almost been run over after a crash by guys who I know aren't on Strava flying down a dangerous section of trail.
So here's the thing. There are always going to be douchebags, whether they have an app to use or not. Does Strava have a tendency to bring out douchebag tendencies in people? I think so. But I also think those people were already douchebags to begin with. And I'm certainly not saying I don't go for some KOMs from time to time. But in my eyes it's about getting after it with an awareness of your fellow trail user. If I'm going fast, it doesn't matter if it's for the sake of Strava or for the sake of having a good time (as I'm sure was the case with the guys who almost ran over me), the same rules apply. If someone's coming up the trail as I'm hauling ass down, I know in my mind it's my job to stop and let them pass, or if they've seen me coming and have already moved, then to slow down and acknowledge their awesomeness.
Haul ass, have fun, and treat fellow users and the trail with respect.
Good video but I never heard that complain about the Turbo Levo - which of course doesn't mean it cannot be true. I guess I'll have to test it as I am playing with the thought getting one. Do you guys think if it's an issue can it be solved with a firmware/software upgrade?
There is a companion app which allows for lots of adjustment to power and response. Setting it in Race mode gives instant response.
I knew about the mission control app and I just checked it out in more details. You are right the acceleration response can be set. Probably it was set to ECO or normal during the test. It's kind of misleading to give a negative conclusion about something that was most probably a user error and wasn't set properly. For me the only missing thing from the Levo is the walk assist but I could live with it. I like that the battery is integrated and there is no useless display but I can connect it to my Garmin.
Yeah, mine is connected to the my Garmin, so you can still have display showing power mode, etc without risking your smart phone!
Apparently there is a software update for the motor coming this year.
***** OK it wasn't clear from the video but if not enough sensors that can be a problem. You can set the expected distance in the app so it will manage the power to have enough juice until the end although I don't know how does it work in practice.
could you link to the strava ride or a gpx file of it , thanks
Good looking video but the audio needs work. You need some dynamic range compression.
I'm a heavier person at 250 lbs... would you say a plus tire would be a worse choice than a 26" tire/bike?.. thanks.. truly enjoyable video.. great camera work guys !
I am not there yet at the age of 57 but who knows. I know someone who has had some very bad injuries and has had multiple body parts replaced and the ebike is working for him. I hope I can stay healthy and avoid this all together.
Can you PLEASE make a video of a grandma wheelieing away from a traffic light?
Maybe not so hard...grandmothers come in at 40 yrs ish :)
Great work guys. I'd love one but they are too expensive...
CrazyCyclingVlogger ask us about the green commute initiative- potentially half price, brand new ebikes.. www.rideelectric.co.uk
Levo delay is a setting. Unfortunately you need app installed in your phone to adjust. Don't go out on first ride without the app. Might actually want to ride a bit BEFORE going on adventure.
I use maxxis minion DHF with vittoria tire inserts. 0 issues
Nice
Bring your e-bike to Whistler, and us Cheese Heads will laugh you out of Canada. How can you not be embarrassed?
Snobbery
I want a full suspension electric fat bike...
With the extra weight of these bikes do the shocks have to be specially tuned to take that into account? Surely the extra mass plus the rider would put a normal shock at its limits wouldn't it?
Not really - the weight difference of the full bike+rider is relatively negligible, when you look at the weigh differences in riders bike and suspension manufacturers have to work in. These ebikes are probably around 7kg heavier than a regular bike, yet I weigh probably in the region of 15kg more than Jon, and myself am a fair bit lighter than anything approaching maximum weight limits.
Surely with that many punctures in close proximity to one another it cant have been penetrations to the tire itself. Must have been an installation error - Not removing the cause of the puncture or rushing it, putting the tube in incorrectly and then getting a pinch flat as a result?
Up on further poking around, at some point I put a massive tear in the rear tyre. I think the first puncture was a genuine pinch (it was set up tubeless), but I reckon the 2nd and subsequent third puncture was due to tearing the tyre on my 2nd puncture - i came off a small drop at speed and think i landed on a sharp-ish bit of rock.
Ah I see. I suppose it still proves that as you guys say, the tires are what need improvement on the eMTB's.
it would certainly help, but i think it extends to plus tyres as a whole too. on an ebike this would be fine as weight is a much smaller consideration, however on a regular trail bike, the weight versus protection balance is going to be a lot harder to crack...
...there a more or less puncture resistant plus tires on the market...try the VEE rubber traxx fatty in 3,25 120tpi
a durable grippy tire
I had to laugh when the commented how "Ruinous Expensive" E-Bikes are, Scott E- Genius 2017 model is £4599. The 2017 Scott Genius 2017 costs £4399. So for £300 extra you can have a Bosch Motor + battery and display ;-) Another point,. I have been walking for 40years. and never come across the term " Relative Height" till mentioned here
For those with f&cked knees, they are a dream when going uphill. [hired one yesterday...would hire one every week if I could!
6:41 This does sort of indicate something which has been a problem for a while now, doesn't it? Manufacturers, worried about being left behind, pushing out 27.5", plus or pedal assist bikes, without developing them to the point where they're actually sorted first.
With the late introduction of things like Boost and wide rims, the resurgence of long travel 29ers and now a market of flimsy and finicky plus-size tyres (after all the faff from already dithering between 3.0", then 2.8" and now maybe 2.6" as a standard size), it seems like a lot of companies are screwing their first shots with new products by rushing them out, then trying to patch them on the go, rather than considering this stuff before hand.
There's certainly some issues to be resolved. plus tyres are certainly pretty fickle, and yep, we've punctured plenty of them (usually when tubed - tubeless is a lot more reliable). however in my opinion they work great on hardtails and perhaps bikes aimed at slightly less experienced riders, where the additional grip and ability to get away with small mistakes is really handy. at this point, once you've got your pressures right (which can be a pain), they're pretty good in my opinion.
but yeah, as plus and ebikes become more popular, i think there will be further developments in tech.
When are you going to do a review on the new Yamaha WR250R? That one also seems like tons of fun on 2 wheels!
Yes, plus size tire suck. The sidewalls are way too thin. Where did you hear they are going to make e bike specific tires? I have used huck norris and maxxis tires but still get pinch flats and sidewall tears.
Snowdon is britains 57th highest mountain.
Errmmmm! Snowden is around Brittan's 56th highest mountain. Not 3rd ;-)
Yamaha motors have zero cadence take off and are perfect for e-bikes with the ability to add more gears by extra chain rings.
At £4600 I'd much rather buy a nice high end (and lighter) full sus or dh bike. I've never liked the idea of assisted riding. Removes the whole "yes I just climbed that!" feeling when a motor is putting in 50% of the work for you. Disagree with me all you want, but the cost of an e-bike to me isn't worth it.
Tom Clayton have you experienced one though? I sold my numerous bikes after the first experience. Wanna go? Go to www.rideelectric.co.uk and book an experience ride...
4k specilized dont even come with a dropper..
Wow that Scott looks absolutely awful imo. The only one that looks nice is the specialized imo. But I’m my opinion, the only nice bikes are the focus ones. Especially the Jam2.
I get the appeal of e-bikes, but this is really mountain "biking". After all, if you like the ease of motors a dirt bike will be cheaper and perhaps even more "fun".
hiro111 you don’t have the same access with a motorcycle. This is part of the great fun of ebikes...
I'm still not sure I would call these E-Bikes Mountainbikes. They are two wheeled and have a motor. Isn't that a motorbike? Also there are too many issues surrounding trail usage and how they are to be classified.
Patrick Logan yes and a butterfly is made of butter. People just need to be more understanding on both sides and realize that regular MTN bikers had to fight the same kind of hate at one point.
But with trail usage being questioned it makes these bike a hot topic. Lots of trail centers here in Canada are designated non motorized only but mountainbike friendly. Where does that leave these? If these become more popular are some centers going to shut out bikes since its to hard to regulate?
Patrick Logan No, their going to let ebike in after realizing that they don't tear up trails or whatever other ideas people have come up with. My point is that the hate is dumb and unjustified.
If you look into lots of articles on biking sites like pinkbike they bring up all the reasons why ebikes are controversial. I personally dont think the controversy in unjustified. The History and Deception - Opinion article sums it up really well. The first comment provides a nice summary if you say TLDR.
Patrick Logan He gave a very unfair comparison in that article. Not sure why hes equating pedalelec to full on no human power. He brings up a good point with like management though, that's a fair concern. Usage is more complex than yes or no. Definitely will be dependent on many factors. Trail centers should limit speed. It would be nice if they required some type of registration as well for ebikes. Work needs to be done to ensure that ebikes don't take advantage of the situation, he was right to point that out. But do the work, don't just ban them outright! Also the connotation that regular MTN bikers are above e bikers is some pretentious bull. He brought up some good points, but that piece was alittle too nostalgic for me.
MTN biking is mlg
3rd highest? errr, nope, way off. 57th I believe. Cocky sod can't even say Levo.
Britains 3rd highest mountain? Seriously? Pathetic journalism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountains_of_the_British_Isles_by_relative_height
Snowdon... I've done bigger shites
The fuck is 'Mount' Snowdon?
E-Shite 😂
These are iligal to ride on bridleways ,restricted byways ,or any other national cycle paths unless said path is a road,its very clear laws that have been used to remove motorized transport from most of britains trails and Ebikes are motorized so I,m afraid if your bike exceeds 6mph your breaking the law.
Gabriel Logan your wrong ,it's motorized regardless of how the throttle is applied.
Go under your own power, or don't go. These are electric motorbikes by another name.
(It's not "Mount Snowdon", either. :
Each to their own... compared to an electric motorbike you'll find the power levels are tiny. I seem to remember an ebike puts out around .3 of a horsepower, whereas an electric motor bike can easily put out between 30-60HP - 100x + more.
They also ride significantly differently, have no throttle and unlike a motorbike, on an ebike the rider's body weight makes up the majority of the overall mass.
fortunately, nobody will force you to ride one :)
Actually they are mopeds by name (motorised pedaling) . I had your attitude a couple of years back and so I bought an electric MTB . I now have three Ebikes . Go figure .
Well, the UK government classifies them as cycles, so I guess your p***ing in the wind there.
Uk just means you can't be bothered with the whole 'pedalling' thing.
I listened to the same attitude/argument from Snow Skiers about Snowboarders back in the 80's and 90's. Some Ski Resorts "outlawed snowboards." Now 80% of the people on the mountain are riding Snowboards!
OPEN your mind, go further, go faster & have more FUN on an ebike! I ride the new S-Works Carbon Turbo! It is unreal!!!!