These are our silent obsessions stemming from perfectionism. I still find it funny how some professional players and streamers don’t share the obsession with this level of optimization!!
Thank you for this. Clear sign of professionalism to admit a mistake like this and figuring out the cause of it. Looking forward to new video! Please keep up the good work you are doing.
This is nuts... only a true academic would be so thorough! I applaud your dedication to accuracy! Has there been a comparison of wireless latency on all these controllers?
Yeah, it's also in the video (still available in the description). I don't think the wireless results are affected by the bug but I haven't had the time to retest those.
@@RocketScienceplease reply me . What if I’m using Xbox x controller connected from usb c thuntherbolt to usb c thuntherbolt to my z690 motherboard directly !? I’m felling it’s going crazy fast on input lag, I even feel the difference if I use a normal usbc to usbc non thuntherbolt cable. And of course crazier slow usbc to usb 2.0. You can make a test insert to think I’m crazy but I feel difference
@@theshowtime4123 It only makes a difference for playstation controllers, but basically make sure to only use the USB ports that come from the CPU and not the motherboard. (in my case motherboard ports are in the front)
@@BlackFlameBoss I have the same issue, my pc is pre-built by Lenevo, so I am going to try to contact them to know which usb ports are connected to my cpu and which are connected to my chipsets. Anyways thanks !
this may sound weird, but couple years ago I had a theory that different usb ports are giving me different inputlag.. and this was only by "feel" and not tested or anything... since then I always plugged my mice and controller to the usb ports that I felt was the fastest. (which are the 4 USB ports that are directly connected to the CPU) turns out I did it right all along... thanks for the finding hwd
@cas curse dumb take.. if you play a lot of latency sensitive games you can absolutely feel a difference of latency to this degree. Please go watch aperture grills latest video on latency split testing, and look at his results. I downloaded the tool myself and can consistently guess the difference between 0 and 4ms latency. And this is with only 144hz. There is a massive difference to the feeling of inputs when it's delayed by even several ms that you will notice as feeling desynced from what you expect to see. People who don't know any better or just don't do any latency sensitive gaming, ignorantly and baselessly assume this is all meaningless because "human reaction time is only ~200ms you will never notice a few ms" but as explained in the aperture grille video, there is a giant difference between reacting to a visual stimuli and having to process a physical response, vs creating an input yourself and noticing a difference in response from the game.
From all I know the issue with AMD Ryzen systems has something to do with the polling of the devices. It seems to depend on how many interfaces are needed to be polled per controller and how fast. Meaning the more devices are connected to the same USB controller the higher the chance that something has problems. But the chance also increase the higher the polling rate is. Also the devices which are enumerated first seems to have no problems, but the later they are enumerated the higher the chance is that some interface from that device isn't polled correctly anymore. This is true if the devices share the same bus, meaning if they use the same USB speed (like USB full-speed which is common for input devices). So using a USB hub can change this because then the low speed data is send over the hi-speed bus instead. So as long as there is only one device connected per USB controller they should work fine. Like if you connect the game controller to a USB port handled by the CPU and your mouse to a port handled by the chipset or vice versa while don't have any other USB device connected (so no keyboard and so on) you should not have any additional weird input delays. By the way, to me this seems to be an AMD issue and not a mainboard vendor one.
Can you report this finding to your motherboard vendor so they do in-lab testing and fix this damn bug for their next MB series? Otherwise they wont do shit and other users will suffer
Don't worry, if it's about Rocket League we'll make sure to pay attention ;) At this point, we don't know whether it's something on our end or if it's for example chipset related. We're in contact with Rocket Science and will investigate the problem to hopefully find the root cause and to see if it affects only this platform or others as well. For now, we can only suggest to connect your controller to the USB ports highlighted green in the thumbnail of this video. After all, we don't want you to get 'what a saved' because of input lag (I might personally use it as an excuse for whiffing though).
@@MSIGamingOfficial Holy Smokes these badasses showed up in a super niche YT video comments section to help with a tiny technical problem? My next products will be MSI no doubt. Previous MSI user BTW. Legends for showing up.
Can you know which ports are connected to your cpu without opening the case? Because my manufacturer does not provide any info about which ports that are directly connected to my cpu.
I was losing my mind over this for months!!!!! I was using a scuf controller and I received a noticeable lagging input. I switched to a cheap Xbox controller and it worked fine. I switched cables and ran multiple test, I emailed scuf and they had no clue. I am running a b450 rog stix with an AMD processor. I'm glad you found this bc I thought I was just crazy!!!!
I have been using front panel just because they are easier to reach. But I have also always been a console player so anything PC feels way less laggy. But I may try rear ports just to see if its better. Im old and slow so I most likely wont see any different. XD
@@njb-mm7129 I have been playing since december of 2019 and actually trying since March April of last year. Currently d2-d3. Have hit champ but can't stay there. I'm happy with my progess. Will get to gc one day.
@Rocket Science, do you think there could be any correlation between additional input lag and the "heavy bug" issue? I dealt with the heavy bug problem on and off for 5 years until I moved off of Steam and onto the Epic games client. I never did figure out a fix for it but at times the heavy bug issue seemed to go away when plugging in my controller into a different port. Although because it was sporadic I never actually figured out what the problem was.
I knew it! When I played a lot of Fortnite (with ds4 controller) back in the day, I noticed that I had less input lag/smoother experience playing with the controller attached to a specific usb port in my old PC (with an b450 motherboard too, but it was an Asrock). Never found any info related to that matter, but I knew there was something happening... I'm super picky when it comes to input delay, like I don't know how but I notice a lot the difference even when it's so subtle. (curiously I noticed the same effect with an old overclocked mouse I had, but in that case was even more noticeable)
hey rocket science. I have an elite series 2 and have been dealing with insane amounts of input lag. At times paying on my Xbox felt better than being on my pc until I came across this video. Turns out that i was dealing with the same usb bug and adding the adapter made a massive improvement. thank you for taking the time to research stuff no one else does. Also noticed that over time the input delay got worse and worse. not really sure why that is but you have saved me from throwing my pc out of the window lol.
really good content bro! keep it up! and also i have a doubt, is it the same if i use a HDMI over a displayport in terms of input delay ? or is displayport better?
The dedication to the accuracy, and integrity of your content is excellent. Much appreciated. One question. Regarding DS4Windows, I doubt the input lag reading from that software is 100% accurate, but do you have any insight as to if it is off by a consistent amount?
it's just mislabeled. What it tells you is the time since last poll. Which is part of the input lag of course but it doesn't tell you about any lag that happens inside the controller. You can pretty much use it as confirmation of the polling rate and it can be useful for wireless because it regularly spikes to 2ms + your Bluetooth dongle is worse than the one I tested. For wired it should be possible to assume that the input lag is just the same for everyone, so it really only serves as a polling rate check.
@@RocketScience Thank you, I appreciate that response. It was at least useful for confirming that overclocking had taken effect. With my Dualsense (that I bought based on your previous video. Thank you.) the reading went from ~3.5ms to ~0.1/0.0ms after going to 8000hz.
If you use ds4 windows, you can get the correct Playstation controls on the screen by starting a match or training, move your finger on the touchpad, unplug the usb hookup to the controller while the match is loading. Once in match plug it back in and hit the options button. Then your set for the entire session. Then youll have the square, triangle, circle, etc instead of the xbox symbols in game
Hey mate. Great video. Is this still an issue? I have the B450 Tomahawk Max. I've noticed my keyboard has more jitter when plugged into a chipset managed USB port compared to the CPU managed ports. I have a mouse, controller and keyboard I want to use on the CPU ports. I only have two though. You said hubs are okay. What would you recommend? Should it have external power?
just now found this video and i was definitely affected. changed to the CPU controlled port and the controls are quite noticeably more responsive. i'm kind of wondering if the chipset may throttle itself on my board based on temperature of the chipset because it seems like the hotter the ambient temperature is in my place, the more input lag i was experiencing on the chipset controlled port i was on. in any case, things are smooth as can be. definitely going to be combing through the rest of your content to see if there are any other gems 😛 keep up the good work! i'm on the MSI x570 Tomahawk Wi-Fi in case it helps anyone.
This man is a God amongst mortals. I KNEW I was feeling problems in certain USB ports but not others. People on the internet told me I was crazy. But I’m not. I knew it. You would think in 2021 when you buy a game and a controller, it should just work. But no, some of us have to go through hell to make our game feel right. Thank you man. For all this hard work.
The USB ports on my Asus Z490 motherboard are not differentiated on the Asus website or in User Manual the way they are with your MSI board. Is there some other way to determine which USB ports belong to which USB Controller?
I could see this being a thing with AMD systems, specifically X570 and B550 as I know those have 4 10gbps USB ports attached directly to the CPU as they don't have to go through the chipset and DMI (or whatever AMD calls their interconnect between the CPU and chipset). I don't know of any mainstream Intel platforms that have CPU attached USB ports without adding a USB expansion card to the CPU attached PCIE lanes. I found your video when I was researching hub latency as I was pretty sure it's fine but I have all of my input devices on an 8 port hub attached to a 30 ft USB extension cable connected to my HTPC. Great video, I'll be sure to make sure my hub is at least attached to one of the CPU connected controllers on my X570.
Also I've noticed the DualShock 4 and other controllers that have a headphone input feel different when aiming, when headphones are connected to them. Maybe the polling rate and latency changes when headphones are connected? Maybe the internal headphone amp when activated causes interference to the analogue stick ADC?
can you make a video about emi interference on usb cables and their impact on controllers and input lag? I wonder if having ferrite ring cores on a usb cable is really usefull. I've been getting a lot of stuttering in Rocket league lately and I have a feeling it has to do with power delivry or usb
When saying it seemed fine on the extension card - did you have your extension card plugged into the chipset ports or cpu ports? Or does this not make a difference and it’s just the PS4 directly to chipset usb that causes the issue
Going straight to CPU is always going to be faster. I'm just glad to finally see someone doing the test to see if it's actually worthwhile. "Maybe, sometimes, by a few ms" is a perfectly good answer - given that usb expansion cards are not at all uncommon.
@@sz3509 gpus don't have USB ports. Your motherboard does. However some of those USB ports run straight to the cpu, whereas others go through the chipset first before going to the cpu. Even on motherboards without the massive input latency bug experienced in this video, the ports that bypass the chipset and go straight to the cpu will still always be faster by some degree. Less processing = less delay that's just physics. Not to mention the chipset routing tends to be quite a bit farther away from the cpu than the ports that just run straight to it.
can anyone help me? i got a gaming pc runs well evrything is good but as soon as i go plug in my webcam (usb) my controller and mouse start doing its own thing. I start doing 360s with my controller mouse is delayed.
@@RocketScience I was hanging on every word, more so usual. At first i wasn't sure why, but maybe spxn is on to something. Even though you were getting very technical it was easy to follow.
Made sure to check my keyboard and mouse (I have 2 controllers but both have different issues that prevent me from using them) are plugged into CPU ports, and glad to say they were :)
Check the website. There's differences berween AGESA different bios cpu and even motherboard revision might have this or not have it. For now just plug your mouse and your controller into the cpu Edit: short answer to your question. Yes should be the ports above the single port.
@@Oldsah But how do I know which USB are CPU related and which are chipset related? By CPU we are talking about MoBo usb ports in the I/O backpanel? Are the chipset USB the ones u have to connect to the USB in the bottom of my MOBO? I have an ASUS PRIME B550 PLUS, and they dont talk about CPU or chipset. Have a good day all. PD: Amazing video.
An amazing and very informative video, I instantly feel the change with my controller. I do have another question, does the usb cable itself have any effect on the input lag and response time of the controller, or is it just based on the type of controller you have and the usb ports on your motherboard itself?
This is obvious and well-known, some ports are routed directly to the CPU and most go through the chipset. If you don't want to study trace layout but want to make sure you have a low-latency input for a keyboard, get a motherboard with a PS/2 port as that is always a CPU port, and USB ports on the same I/O cluster as the PS/2 port will pretty much always be CPU ports as well.
That really shouldn't make that much of a difference, though. As he said in the video, the USB on his PCIe extension card was as fast as the USB that went directly to the CPU, and on his friend's board the chipset and CPU had the same input lag as well.
Eh idk about the USB ports on the same cluster being connected to the cpu. The board shown in this video has 2 USB 2.0 slots on the same cluster as the ps/2 port yet they are the laggy ones that go through the chipset. I also have the same board, just the max version, and recently realized the same thing. I've been plugged into the laggy 2.0 ports this entire time because I assumed they would be the fastest being next to the ps/2 port and being sort "designated" for kb and mouse. But they are in fact chipset ports and laggy
No, I don't think that matters. Stick drift happens cuz of a mechanical wear. It will just tell the PC where the stick is drifting more often than xbox controllers i.e
This is very informative. I'm getting 3.4 ms with my 2013 launch DS4 v1 while plugged in both the front and back compared to my old pc which only has usb 2.0 while my newer pc has usb3.2 gen1 and gen2 maybe that's why I used to get crap latency. To be honest, bluetooth is the best way to connect your controller (3.4ms as well). The AX210 wifi card is currently the best card right now imo. Get the ones with the antenna and you're good to go. I just avoid buying the USB dongles, even the more expensive ones, they are all terrible and unreliable cuz they lack the necessary hardware. Just to add to this, the fake DS4 is just terrible it has 10+ms and terrible audio. Stop buying those crap. specs: ryzen 5600, b550m steel series, 16gb 3600mhz, ax210ngw m.2 card + 2 antennas
Is there a way for an average person like me to see if my USB port has this weird bug? Like could I use DS4 Windows and see which one reports the lowest input lag? Or should I just assume to use the 3.1 gen 2 port? I got a little superstitious a while back and have kept my controller plugged into the same port this whole time because I felt like it has the lowest lag but I don’t really know for sure
@cas curse do you know which BIOS revision it was addressed in? I have tried looking around at the different releases for the b450 tomahawk max and see no mention of it.
Can you do a video testing USB interference and how it affects controllers latency and analogue stick accuracy? I've done research into it and USB has interference with 2.4Ghz devices like Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. USB devices can also emit EMI/RFI. USB HDDs for example can inject interference into the devices internal USB hub, causing other devices connected to the hub to experience interference. Many people feel latency and control issues when they have an external HDD connected via USB to their PS4 for example.
i have a laptop but have the same problem. I dont know how to find the specifications of the motherboard. The motherboard is Lenovo lnvnb161216. I have a ryzen 7 4800h. I dont know how to find the right port
Good stuff, thank you for this context. I have an arcade stick and sometimes use WASD for directional inputs -- I've never had consistent just-frame inputs and was seriously wondering why that was the case, perhaps the keyboard was too low quality? Turns out I should have been using the CPU USB ports. I'm gonna try it and see if I notice any difference. Am also on a b450 tomahawk. Thanks again!
I’ve been using my Xbox elite controller on rocket league coming from Xbox and the input lag has me having heavy car syndrome bad. Like I turn so slow it feels like and it’s so late I can’t even hit a flip reset
Okay now I’m confused, I swapped around my controller (c40) to different ports to see if I’d notice any difference and somehow my usb 2.0 feels much better but it’s a chipset hub. Beyond confused.
I have one question regarding dual sense .I watched some video where they say that conecting via usb c or thunderbolt can decrease input lag .is that true ?or is the best way to connect it usb c to usb a cable into procesor dedicated usb port ? Becouse usb c /thunderbolt is chipset port and 2 usb a 3.1 gen 2 are procesor ports .I run x570 gigabyte aorus master .please someone respond
i was actually about to try this next as well since i switched my PS5 controller to my USB 3.2 Gen 2 port and its made a huge difference for my input latency but i want to see if usb-c to c port is even lower latency
there are USB Ports directly connected to the CPU and others that are connected to the Chipset, maybe there is a difference? also the 500er AMD chipset suffer from USB problems
my board as that issue it is so strange I realized this yesterday that the amd usb 3.2 gives me better input delay then the 2.0 ports and it is very noticeable the movement of the mouse as greatly improved. I use aim lab often and now my scores are always higher then usual by quite a bit it's not a question of margins I doubt it is placebo as I've always tried my best in aim lab. my board is a msi b450 gaming pro carbon max wifi with the most recent official bios the v29 and up to date chipset driver. I only wish I would have realized this sooner as I have been using one of the other ports for my mouse the razor viper for over a year now.
Dude I thought it was just me. Turns out my friend & I have similar motherboards (B550 series as well). If you use the usb 3.2 without the overclock, the ms is 1.5/500hz (I checked via ds4 windows) but with the overclock it goes up to 1000hz but feels weird. If you use the usb 2.0 ports without overclocking, it’s the actual default speed of a controller; 250hz/3.5-4ms. This isn’t happening with ps5 controllers. However regardless of the controller, when I overclock, the aim assist feels weird on cpu ports. It’s definitely AMD related & these specific motherboards that’s making the polling rate much faster than usual or buggy.
Could you test a white dualsense vs a black dual sense. I'm on my second black Controller and going back and forth, they seem to have more input lag than the white ones.
If we're thinking about the same issue, many users report that when they run their GPU at PCIe 3.0 speeds, the USB problems are solved. The MSI B450 Tomahawk (the board mentioned in this video) doesn't support PCIe 4.0, so the latency issue here may be unrelated.
@cas curse wtf is your problem? im not arguing with anyone I was just asking. I'm more than capable of checking the site myself as I have plenty of times. "Done helping you" what exactly did you help me with lmao
I found just from my use in rocket league that it is tough to get a reliable Bluetooth signal. I had to try several different dongles to get the consistency I required. It’s really a shame that the Dual Sense doesn’t use the DS4 Dongle. The DS4 Dongle even tho it’s still bluetooth I found it to be much more reliable than any of the Bluetooth dongles I tried. I ended up with a usb3 Bluetooth dongle on my Dual Sense and DS4 windows shows me 1ms+/_ and on USB C with a C to usb 3.0 adapter I show 8ms+/-. I know that’s not real world numbers but the numbers consistently change between plugging in and wireless across DS4 and dual sense. The dual sense seems to be a significant upgrade. ALso the sticks in the DS4 wore for me quite frequently and I found myself having to do the game stop insurance every 6 months or so. Since I’ve been on the dual sense I haven’t had to change the controller yet with the insurance so the sticks seem much more durable. Also quick note to those who have GME insurance on a DS4 and can’t find any controllers bc they seem to not ever have them anymore you can turn your insurance program on the DS4 into a Dual sense for $20. Just go in with your DS4 and insurance sticker and 20 bucks and they will give you a fresh Dual Sense. Profit. Took me a while to get used to the Dual sense also. I had sore parts of my hands but I got used to it after about a week and now can go between the two no issues.
I'm aware this might be niche content, but I love it.
These are our silent obsessions stemming from perfectionism. I still find it funny how some professional players and streamers don’t share the obsession with this level of optimization!!
I love how seriously you take your work. The rocket league world needs you and are so grateful for everything that you do!
I knew there was something preventing me from ranking up!!! It was the USB port all along!!!
Lol
rip
😂😂
taking the science in your name really seriously, true act of honor that you are correcting it even after the whole video was made
Thank you for this. Clear sign of professionalism to admit a mistake like this and figuring out the cause of it. Looking forward to new video! Please keep up the good work you are doing.
This is how real science is done. No expectations and no ego. Just follow data and testing. No agenda. Many people do not do this.
@@spencerorr4374 fax
This is nuts... only a true academic would be so thorough! I applaud your dedication to accuracy! Has there been a comparison of wireless latency on all these controllers?
Yeah, it's also in the video (still available in the description). I don't think the wireless results are affected by the bug but I haven't had the time to retest those.
@@RocketScienceplease reply me . What if I’m using Xbox x controller connected from usb c thuntherbolt to usb c thuntherbolt to my z690 motherboard directly !? I’m felling it’s going crazy fast on input lag, I even feel the difference if I use a normal usbc to usbc non thuntherbolt cable. And of course crazier slow usbc to usb 2.0. You can make a test insert to think I’m crazy but I feel difference
That could actually explain why I sometimes feel a difference when changing from back to front USB ports! Thank you for this video, great explanation!
Which is faster?
@@theshowtime4123 It only makes a difference for playstation controllers, but basically make sure to only use the USB ports that come from the CPU and not the motherboard. (in my case motherboard ports are in the front)
@@BlackFlameBoss I have the same issue, my pc is pre-built by Lenevo, so I am going to try to contact them to know which usb ports are connected to my cpu and which are connected to my chipsets. Anyways thanks !
@@BlackFlameBoss alr
@@BlackFlameBoss Hey i’m 1 year late but how do I know which usb ports come from the cpu/motherboard if I have a laptop witb 3 usb ports?
this may sound weird, but couple years ago I had a theory that different usb ports are giving me different inputlag.. and this was only by "feel" and not tested or anything... since then I always plugged my mice and controller to the usb ports that I felt was the fastest. (which are the 4 USB ports that are directly connected to the CPU) turns out I did it right all along... thanks for the finding hwd
@cas curse dumb take.. if you play a lot of latency sensitive games you can absolutely feel a difference of latency to this degree. Please go watch aperture grills latest video on latency split testing, and look at his results. I downloaded the tool myself and can consistently guess the difference between 0 and 4ms latency. And this is with only 144hz.
There is a massive difference to the feeling of inputs when it's delayed by even several ms that you will notice as feeling desynced from what you expect to see. People who don't know any better or just don't do any latency sensitive gaming, ignorantly and baselessly assume this is all meaningless because "human reaction time is only ~200ms you will never notice a few ms" but as explained in the aperture grille video, there is a giant difference between reacting to a visual stimuli and having to process a physical response, vs creating an input yourself and noticing a difference in response from the game.
From all I know the issue with AMD Ryzen systems has something to do with the polling of the devices. It seems to depend on how many interfaces are needed to be polled per controller and how fast. Meaning the more devices are connected to the same USB controller the higher the chance that something has problems. But the chance also increase the higher the polling rate is. Also the devices which are enumerated first seems to have no problems, but the later they are enumerated the higher the chance is that some interface from that device isn't polled correctly anymore. This is true if the devices share the same bus, meaning if they use the same USB speed (like USB full-speed which is common for input devices). So using a USB hub can change this because then the low speed data is send over the hi-speed bus instead.
So as long as there is only one device connected per USB controller they should work fine. Like if you connect the game controller to a USB port handled by the CPU and your mouse to a port handled by the chipset or vice versa while don't have any other USB device connected (so no keyboard and so on) you should not have any additional weird input delays.
By the way, to me this seems to be an AMD issue and not a mainboard vendor one.
I have an amd laptop how do I know which USB port is connected to my motherboard?
Even if I wasn't interested in the topic, I'd still watch this guy's videos because he seems like a nice person
Remember to check your motherboard block diagram for cpu and chipset usb ports
What's the difference ?
Can you report this finding to your motherboard vendor so they do in-lab testing and fix this damn bug for their next MB series? Otherwise they wont do shit and other users will suffer
Don't worry, if it's about Rocket League we'll make sure to pay attention ;)
At this point, we don't know whether it's something on our end or if it's for example chipset related. We're in contact with Rocket Science and will investigate the problem to hopefully find the root cause and to see if it affects only this platform or others as well. For now, we can only suggest to connect your controller to the USB ports highlighted green in the thumbnail of this video. After all, we don't want you to get 'what a saved' because of input lag (I might personally use it as an excuse for whiffing though).
@@MSIGamingOfficial major respect that yall care msi 👏
@@MSIGamingOfficial Aaaaand I'm an MSI fan now. Well played 👊🏻
@@MSIGamingOfficial Holy Smokes these badasses showed up in a super niche YT video comments section to help with a tiny technical problem? My next products will be MSI no doubt.
Previous MSI user BTW. Legends for showing up.
@@MSIGamingOfficial any updates to what was solved??
Also my next mb I can certainly say will be Msi for your attention on this issue
Can you know which ports are connected to your cpu without opening the case? Because my manufacturer does not provide any info about which ports that are directly connected to my cpu.
what motherboard do you have?
@@WrexBF A lenevo motherboard which was not specified when I bought my pc (not even in lenevo’a website), so in other words, a shitty motherboard.
This mortal is doing the work of the gods.
I was losing my mind over this for months!!!!! I was using a scuf controller and I received a noticeable lagging input. I switched to a cheap Xbox controller and it worked fine. I switched cables and ran multiple test, I emailed scuf and they had no clue. I am running a b450 rog stix with an AMD processor. I'm glad you found this bc I thought I was just crazy!!!!
As soon as I saw the motherboard come up I finally realized IM NOT CRAZY Thank you for this video!!!
Man I've been waiting for something like this forever! I've always felt the front panel ports are slower on average.
I have been using front panel just because they are easier to reach. But I have also always been a console player so anything PC feels way less laggy. But I may try rear ports just to see if its better. Im old and slow so I most likely wont see any different. XD
@@njb-mm7129 I have been playing since december of 2019 and actually trying since March April of last year. Currently d2-d3. Have hit champ but can't stay there. I'm happy with my progess. Will get to gc one day.
@Rocket Science, do you think there could be any correlation between additional input lag and the "heavy bug" issue? I dealt with the heavy bug problem on and off for 5 years until I moved off of Steam and onto the Epic games client. I never did figure out a fix for it but at times the heavy bug issue seemed to go away when plugging in my controller into a different port. Although because it was sporadic I never actually figured out what the problem was.
@@Sweet-oj4ob how can you tell which ports are connected to the cpu or chipset?
I’m kbm and none of these videos really matter for me, but you just make them so interesting and I love watching them!
Nice to see input lag measurements videos where everything is done rigorously.
I knew it!
When I played a lot of Fortnite (with ds4 controller) back in the day, I noticed that I had less input lag/smoother experience playing with the controller attached to a specific usb port in my old PC (with an b450 motherboard too, but it was an Asrock). Never found any info related to that matter, but I knew there was something happening...
I'm super picky when it comes to input delay, like I don't know how but I notice a lot the difference even when it's so subtle. (curiously I noticed the same effect with an old overclocked mouse I had, but in that case was even more noticeable)
hey rocket science. I have an elite series 2 and have been dealing with insane amounts of input lag. At times paying on my Xbox felt better than being on my pc until I came across this video. Turns out that i was dealing with the same usb bug and adding the adapter made a massive improvement. thank you for taking the time to research stuff no one else does. Also noticed that over time the input delay got worse and worse. not really sure why that is but you have saved me from throwing my pc out of the window lol.
really good content bro! keep it up! and also i have a doubt, is it the same if i use a HDMI over a displayport in terms of input delay ? or is displayport better?
display port is always better
The dedication to the accuracy, and integrity of your content is excellent. Much appreciated. One question. Regarding DS4Windows, I doubt the input lag reading from that software is 100% accurate, but do you have any insight as to if it is off by a consistent amount?
it's just mislabeled. What it tells you is the time since last poll. Which is part of the input lag of course but it doesn't tell you about any lag that happens inside the controller. You can pretty much use it as confirmation of the polling rate and it can be useful for wireless because it regularly spikes to 2ms + your Bluetooth dongle is worse than the one I tested. For wired it should be possible to assume that the input lag is just the same for everyone, so it really only serves as a polling rate check.
@@RocketScience Thank you, I appreciate that response. It was at least useful for confirming that overclocking had taken effect. With my Dualsense (that I bought based on your previous video. Thank you.) the reading went from ~3.5ms to ~0.1/0.0ms after going to 8000hz.
Thank u for your time and patience 👍🏼
What about the ports on the consoles? Is the Xbox slower because it's USB-A instead of USB-C?
So, how would i know/test which port i should use? (in case there is a difference)
Never would have thought about overclocking a USB port! Great stuff!
If you use ds4 windows, you can get the correct Playstation controls on the screen by starting a match or training, move your finger on the touchpad, unplug the usb hookup to the controller while the match is loading. Once in match plug it back in and hit the options button. Then your set for the entire session. Then youll have the square, triangle, circle, etc instead of the xbox symbols in game
Hey mate. Great video. Is this still an issue? I have the B450 Tomahawk Max. I've noticed my keyboard has more jitter when plugged into a chipset managed USB port compared to the CPU managed ports. I have a mouse, controller and keyboard I want to use on the CPU ports. I only have two though. You said hubs are okay. What would you recommend? Should it have external power?
What do you mean by keyboard jitter?
@@RequiemOfSolo disregard. I fixed it. It was a Warzone problem.
@@ghallora gotcha. Glad you don't have an issue anymore at least.
just now found this video and i was definitely affected. changed to the CPU controlled port and the controls are quite noticeably more responsive. i'm kind of wondering if the chipset may throttle itself on my board based on temperature of the chipset because it seems like the hotter the ambient temperature is in my place, the more input lag i was experiencing on the chipset controlled port i was on. in any case, things are smooth as can be. definitely going to be combing through the rest of your content to see if there are any other gems 😛 keep up the good work!
i'm on the MSI x570 Tomahawk Wi-Fi in case it helps anyone.
how do u know which one is the cpu usb port???!??!?!?!?! i have ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO
This man is a God amongst mortals. I KNEW I was feeling problems in certain USB ports but not others. People on the internet told me I was crazy. But I’m not. I knew it. You would think in 2021 when you buy a game and a controller, it should just work. But no, some of us have to go through hell to make our game feel right. Thank you man. For all this hard work.
@cas curse Reddit. Rocketleagueschool sub.
Absolutely excellent work that put out fir us needs at heart, THANK YOU and Awesome Karma out to you for your channel 🤘😎
The USB ports on my Asus Z490 motherboard are not differentiated on the Asus website or in User Manual the way they are with your MSI board. Is there some other way to determine which USB ports belong to which USB Controller?
Turns out that Intel only has ports on the chipset. I didn't check that before the video. The big is probably AMD only though
@@RocketScience so intel ports are just connected to the chipset not directly to the cpu right?
I could see this being a thing with AMD systems, specifically X570 and B550 as I know those have 4 10gbps USB ports attached directly to the CPU as they don't have to go through the chipset and DMI (or whatever AMD calls their interconnect between the CPU and chipset). I don't know of any mainstream Intel platforms that have CPU attached USB ports without adding a USB expansion card to the CPU attached PCIE lanes.
I found your video when I was researching hub latency as I was pretty sure it's fine but I have all of my input devices on an 8 port hub attached to a 30 ft USB extension cable connected to my HTPC.
Great video, I'll be sure to make sure my hub is at least attached to one of the CPU connected controllers on my X570.
Also I've noticed the DualShock 4 and other controllers that have a headphone input feel different when aiming, when headphones are connected to them. Maybe the polling rate and latency changes when headphones are connected? Maybe the internal headphone amp when activated causes interference to the analogue stick ADC?
yes i think plugging headphones in your controller adds input lag, especially if you use a mic
That would make sense since they're on the same bandwidth and 1 might be straining the other.
can you make a video about emi interference on usb cables and their impact on controllers and input lag? I wonder if having ferrite ring cores on a usb cable is really usefull. I've been getting a lot of stuttering in Rocket league lately and I have a feeling it has to do with power delivry or usb
When saying it seemed fine on the extension card - did you have your extension card plugged into the chipset ports or cpu ports? Or does this not make a difference and it’s just the PS4 directly to chipset usb that causes the issue
Soo much effort man, keep it up!
This man lives and breathes input lag!
Going straight to CPU is always going to be faster. I'm just glad to finally see someone doing the test to see if it's actually worthwhile. "Maybe, sometimes, by a few ms" is a perfectly good answer - given that usb expansion cards are not at all uncommon.
what do you mean exactly with going straight to cpu? i thought only gpu's had usb ports? sorry if i sound dumb i am new to this
@@sz3509 gpus don't have USB ports. Your motherboard does. However some of those USB ports run straight to the cpu, whereas others go through the chipset first before going to the cpu. Even on motherboards without the massive input latency bug experienced in this video, the ports that bypass the chipset and go straight to the cpu will still always be faster by some degree. Less processing = less delay that's just physics. Not to mention the chipset routing tends to be quite a bit farther away from the cpu than the ports that just run straight to it.
can anyone help me? i got a gaming pc runs well evrything is good but as soon as i go plug in my webcam (usb) my controller and mouse start doing its own thing. I start doing 360s with my controller mouse is delayed.
Wow I can tell how much effort he’s put into looking at the camera this time. On an exponential curve of how enjoyable your content is!
I just didn't have a script so there was no need to look elsewhere 😅 and thanks
@@RocketScience damn that was brilliant improvising then!
@@RocketScience I was hanging on every word, more so usual. At first i wasn't sure why, but maybe spxn is on to something. Even though you were getting very technical it was easy to follow.
You're doing awesome work. Thank you!
I have Xbox Series s with original wifi controller. If I plug the usb cable to the device for rpg games, may I have less lag? Ty
i have a b450 tomhawk max, does it get affected by the same "bug"? Cause i don't have any 3.1 gen ports :( Should i plug it into the case ports?
i have the same mother board and use the vr ports it feels way smoother than the ones on top, idk why maybe its a placebo but it just does
how to distinguish cpu usb port and chipset usb port
So my MSI H110M (intel) has 4x USB 3.2 Gen 2 (USB 3.1) and 2x USB 2.0 inputs. Which one should i use?
Darn, I have that exact same motherboard. I figured this could be the issue. Thanks for posting.
Do you have any info on whether 3.2 gen 1 slots suffer from the same glitch? I don't have any 3.1 gen 1 slots.
Nice, as usual I appreciate the work!
great video, could use some graphics when you do stuff like this in the future (to help us follow along and keep us engaged), but very good info
Doesinput lag change on the xbox usb ports?
what port should I plug in my ds4 on the Z490?
Made sure to check my keyboard and mouse (I have 2 controllers but both have different issues that prevent me from using them) are plugged into CPU ports, and glad to say they were :)
how can you tell if they are cpu ports?
@@liamthomas6093 It'll be on the specs list of your motherboard, though it's being a long time since this happened so my memory's quite vague.
If I connect a 1m usb extender to a usb hub, will I have input lag?
So do i want to be plugging in my Dual sense or PS4 controller in to the middle USB ports of my B450 TOMAHAWK motherboard?
Check the website.
There's differences berween AGESA different bios cpu and even motherboard revision might have this or not have it. For now just plug your mouse and your controller into the cpu
Edit: short answer to your question. Yes should be the ports above the single port.
@@Oldsah But how do I know which USB are CPU related and which are chipset related? By CPU we are talking about MoBo usb ports in the I/O backpanel? Are the chipset USB the ones u have to connect to the USB in the bottom of my MOBO? I have an ASUS PRIME B550 PLUS, and they dont talk about CPU or chipset.
Have a good day all.
PD: Amazing video.
@@nosumable if you check the website for information.
Generally they are grouped.
An amazing and very informative video, I instantly feel the change with my controller. I do have another question, does the usb cable itself have any effect on the input lag and response time of the controller, or is it just based on the type of controller you have and the usb ports on your motherboard itself?
Dude you are amazing.
This is obvious and well-known, some ports are routed directly to the CPU and most go through the chipset. If you don't want to study trace layout but want to make sure you have a low-latency input for a keyboard, get a motherboard with a PS/2 port as that is always a CPU port, and USB ports on the same I/O cluster as the PS/2 port will pretty much always be CPU ports as well.
That really shouldn't make that much of a difference, though. As he said in the video, the USB on his PCIe extension card was as fast as the USB that went directly to the CPU, and on his friend's board the chipset and CPU had the same input lag as well.
@@theKiwii That's what happens when the PCIe extension card is plugged into a CPU-connected PCIe slot
Eh idk about the USB ports on the same cluster being connected to the cpu. The board shown in this video has 2 USB 2.0 slots on the same cluster as the ps/2 port yet they are the laggy ones that go through the chipset. I also have the same board, just the max version, and recently realized the same thing. I've been plugged into the laggy 2.0 ports this entire time because I assumed they would be the fastest being next to the ps/2 port and being sort "designated" for kb and mouse. But they are in fact chipset ports and laggy
lol 🤣
Could the playstation sending a signal every poll rather than when there is an update have an affect on stick drift?
No, I don't think that matters. Stick drift happens cuz of a mechanical wear. It will just tell the PC where the stick is drifting more often than xbox controllers i.e
This is very informative. I'm getting 3.4 ms with my 2013 launch DS4 v1 while plugged in both the front and back compared to my old pc which only has usb 2.0 while my newer pc has usb3.2 gen1 and gen2 maybe that's why I used to get crap latency. To be honest, bluetooth is the best way to connect your controller (3.4ms as well). The AX210 wifi card is currently the best card right now imo. Get the ones with the antenna and you're good to go. I just avoid buying the USB dongles, even the more expensive ones, they are all terrible and unreliable cuz they lack the necessary hardware.
Just to add to this, the fake DS4 is just terrible it has 10+ms and terrible audio. Stop buying those crap.
specs: ryzen 5600, b550m steel series, 16gb 3600mhz, ax210ngw m.2 card + 2 antennas
Is there a way for an average person like me to see if my USB port has this weird bug? Like could I use DS4 Windows and see which one reports the lowest input lag? Or should I just assume to use the 3.1 gen 2 port? I got a little superstitious a while back and have kept my controller plugged into the same port this whole time because I felt like it has the lowest lag but I don’t really know for sure
@cas curse do you know which BIOS revision it was addressed in? I have tried looking around at the different releases for the b450 tomahawk max and see no mention of it.
Can you do a video testing USB interference and how it affects controllers latency and analogue stick accuracy?
I've done research into it and USB has interference with 2.4Ghz devices like Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. USB devices can also emit EMI/RFI. USB HDDs for example can inject interference into the devices internal USB hub, causing other devices connected to the hub to experience interference.
Many people feel latency and control issues when they have an external HDD connected via USB to their PS4 for example.
i have a laptop but have the same problem. I dont know how to find the specifications of the motherboard. The motherboard is Lenovo lnvnb161216.
I have a ryzen 7 4800h. I dont know how to find the right port
What usb 3.1 gen 2 cable do you recommend ?
didnt they have some connection issue with the usb ports and needed to make some firmware update to bios recently
Good stuff, thank you for this context. I have an arcade stick and sometimes use WASD for directional inputs -- I've never had consistent just-frame inputs and was seriously wondering why that was the case, perhaps the keyboard was too low quality?
Turns out I should have been using the CPU USB ports. I'm gonna try it and see if I notice any difference. Am also on a b450 tomahawk. Thanks again!
It will be interesting to see if this issue was caused by the USB issue AMD is releasing bios patches for...
does intel boards also affected by this?
cheers!
Hey guys, I've got a question. Can you overclock a wireless controller?
How can you chek wich is your best usb port on a laptop
so will I GET more or less if I use usb extender ?
What software do you use to measure input lag?
I’ve been using my Xbox elite controller on rocket league coming from Xbox and the input lag has me having heavy car syndrome bad. Like I turn so slow it feels like and it’s so late I can’t even hit a flip reset
Okay now I’m confused, I swapped around my controller (c40) to different ports to see if I’d notice any difference and somehow my usb 2.0 feels much better but it’s a chipset hub. Beyond confused.
You should test how prioritizing IRQ priority affects latency, also, I reached 0ms on my DualSense that way :3
Thanks for the dedication, I'm only halfway in, but solving this issue sounded like a nightmare.
I have one question regarding dual sense .I watched some video where they say that conecting via usb c or thunderbolt can decrease input lag .is that true ?or is the best way to connect it usb c to usb a cable into procesor dedicated usb port ? Becouse usb c /thunderbolt is chipset port and 2 usb a 3.1 gen 2 are procesor ports .I run x570 gigabyte aorus master .please someone respond
i was actually about to try this next as well since i switched my PS5 controller to my USB 3.2 Gen 2 port and its made a huge difference for my input latency but i want to see if usb-c to c port is even lower latency
there are USB Ports directly connected to the CPU and others that are connected to the Chipset, maybe there is a difference? also the 500er AMD chipset suffer from USB problems
my board as that issue it is so strange I realized this yesterday that the amd usb 3.2 gives me better input delay then the 2.0 ports and it is very noticeable the movement of the mouse as greatly improved. I use aim lab often and now my scores are always higher then usual by quite a bit it's not a question of margins I doubt it is placebo as I've always tried my best in aim lab. my board is a msi b450 gaming pro carbon max wifi with the most recent official bios the v29 and up to date chipset driver. I only wish I would have realized this sooner as I have been using one of the other ports for my mouse the razor viper for over a year now.
@@RequiemOfSolo probably something to do with b450 chipset itself so any of those amd motherboards
I'm really interested in what pci expansion card you used.
2nd video like this and you're already a pro at being on camera!
what cable to buy for the xsx controller?
Dude I thought it was just me. Turns out my friend & I have similar motherboards (B550 series as well). If you use the usb 3.2 without the overclock, the ms is 1.5/500hz (I checked via ds4 windows) but with the overclock it goes up to 1000hz but feels weird. If you use the usb 2.0 ports without overclocking, it’s the actual default speed of a controller; 250hz/3.5-4ms. This isn’t happening with ps5 controllers. However regardless of the controller, when I overclock, the aim assist feels weird on cpu ports. It’s definitely AMD related & these specific motherboards that’s making the polling rate much faster than usual or buggy.
Would this affect a bluetooth dongle when using wireless DS4?
It didn't when I tested it.
Could you test a white dualsense vs a black dual sense. I'm on my second black Controller and going back and forth, they seem to have more input lag than the white ones.
Racist
Racist
Once you go black you have to send it back
Great video!
I wonder if this has anything to do with the usb disconnect issues the b550 and x570's are experiencing.
You mean the random disconnects?
@@gm4984 yeah, I know latency is different than disconnects, but I'm curious if this goes back to the 4xx series chipsets as some kind of bug / issue.
I think thats a micro usb issue. Just an awful connector in general .
If we're thinking about the same issue, many users report that when they run their GPU at PCIe 3.0 speeds, the USB problems are solved. The MSI B450 Tomahawk (the board mentioned in this video) doesn't support PCIe 4.0, so the latency issue here may be unrelated.
Well Damn lol sometimes tech just wanna do its own thing lol good video bro im looking forward to the re-upload video 👍🏽
Thanks for the video
WAIT?! how can you over clock a controler ???!!!
I’m curious if this effects keyboards as well.
Okay so how to identify what USB ports connected to CPU?
They are the ones most directly connected to your mother board. Usually the ones in the rear of your pc
I have a B550 Taichi and I have no way of knowing what ports go to my CPU. ASRock doesnt specify.
@cas curse they dont specify. can you let me know where you see that? in device manager i have 2 amd host controllers thats it.
@cas curse wtf is your problem? im not arguing with anyone I was just asking. I'm more than capable of checking the site myself as I have plenty of times. "Done helping you" what exactly did you help me with lmao
@@joshjbeats Lol that took a turn
Whats better for fps , USB 3 or USB c
This sounds like an advanced Driver problem that wouldnt be found without a program like Driverfix or something
I found just from my use in rocket league that it is tough to get a reliable Bluetooth signal. I had to try several different dongles to get the consistency I required. It’s really a shame that the Dual Sense doesn’t use the DS4 Dongle. The DS4 Dongle even tho it’s still bluetooth I found it to be much more reliable than any of the Bluetooth dongles I tried. I ended up with a usb3 Bluetooth dongle on my Dual Sense and DS4 windows shows me 1ms+/_ and on USB C with a C to usb 3.0 adapter I show 8ms+/-. I know that’s not real world numbers but the numbers consistently change between plugging in and wireless across DS4 and dual sense. The dual sense seems to be a significant upgrade. ALso the sticks in the DS4 wore for me quite frequently and I found myself having to do the game stop insurance every 6 months or so. Since I’ve been on the dual sense I haven’t had to change the controller yet with the insurance so the sticks seem much more durable.
Also quick note to those who have GME insurance on a DS4 and can’t find any controllers bc they seem to not ever have them anymore you can turn your insurance program on the DS4 into a Dual sense for $20. Just go in with your DS4 and insurance sticker and 20 bucks and they will give you a fresh Dual Sense. Profit.
Took me a while to get used to the Dual sense also. I had sore parts of my hands but I got used to it after about a week and now can go between the two no issues.
I love these kinds of bugs. T.T
My sympathies.