Yeah they are the biggest hypocrites oh my God!! Then they scream at you, " why are you doing that or why the hell would you do that!"" I believe they are possessed they are evil wanting to hurt you for being alive. Envy the heck out of you too!!!
Exactly. My ex was very jealous. His biggest issue was that my job was easier than his! He could not stand the fact I got home 30 minutes earlier. I could go on and on. So much insanity.
It makes me giggle to hear you say they want to limit you in every possible way without you being suspicious....so ridiculous that this is true.. I enjoyed this one.
What I've learned is that there's no need to ever get revenge on these savages. They are tortured by thr void they feel inside their chest. The emptiness the inability to love and feel is literally a.death sentence. They can't and won't ever be healthy that's the revenge we get. Just go no contact and let the empty voided human implode.
Exactly. And they will.. implode.. in the end, they do it to themselves. We escape with our sanity & no blood on our hands. I’ve seen it.. they die as they lived.. miserably.
I've seen it happen again and again in my 49 years to these types. It might seem like they're getting away with something and then out of nowhere something completely blows up on them (that I did nothing to cause by the way)
In the case of a parent or other immediate family member, they are inherently hard to walk away from because they are family. It is not natural to walk away from family, even if it is necessary.
It was fine for them to be emotional, but not for me to be. When I would become emotional -- very upset, or sad, or happy -- I was told to calm down, and would get comments such as "I knew you were sensitive, but not that sensitive." They didn't want for me to express my feelings and they ignored what I felt. Like none of my own feelings mattered.
I can relate to that. My narc dad always wanted to dump his feelings on me and still tries but any time I expressed my feeling about anything especially if I was upset I would either get ignored or told to move on and to let it go. Then later he'd find ways to punish be by using what I said against me. For example a friend that I had for ten years ended up hurting me and the friendship ended. My narc dad brought her up to me any time he could. He even would talk to her. Yup. It's a long complicated story.
They never do want to hear us. His favorite words,” zip it”. Stop being a B’. I’m not allowed to have my own opinion. I always thought people should agree to disagree. Not in their world!
It took me 15yrs to break free from his illusions & invisible cage; his constant mindfucks. It took me to grow emotionally mature past his permanent state of learned helplessness & parasitic codependency. I not only cut him off but several other relationships w/toxic people. I got tired of being fed off of. They were all draining the life out of me--LITERALLY. I'm recovery, tired & trying to move forward. I've been through hell starting in my childhood but I'm continuing to push forward w/my life. One foot in front of the other.
How I began breaking free was keeping my energy to myself, disengaging in mindless interactions & keeping my thoughts to myself; no matter how hard the narcs attempted to bait me. I simply began working on myself & finding ways to break free.
I told a narcissist man who wanted a date with me that I wanted a partner who could ask me how I was everyday, how I was feeling, if I was in any pain and how my goals for the day were coming...also I wanted someone who could be as nice to me as I am to my dog and my plants.... he said I was TOO NEEDY!! and went away!! LOL!
Tundra WHAT are you talking about--Sorry I described his motive too accurately!! I changed the work to date-- NOW do you feel better?? Is that gong to work for you?? Do you have an inability to create a connection?
In my experience with narcissists, they did the best they could to NOT allow me to speak at all, NOT express my opinion at all, they mentioned my feelings were 'irrelevant', they behaved as if I had no right to use my brain and think, in a few words as if I had been an object that belonged to them. They projected their own lack of responsibility on me. They did the following: A. Behaved like a parent to me B. Tried to impose on me what was supposedly good for me C. Told me what to DO. They also used other people as their 'tools'. They would not perceive them as 'persons'. Their main characteristic is their wish to make us stop thinking, and adopt their own evil ways. One of them even growled when I exposed the game he played on the web!!
Narc Parents say they know more than you and know what's best for you. It's okay for them to yell and rage because they make the money and you are just a child who is a burden and drain who they have support.
"I know you better than you know yourself!" For years they make this assertion to their kids. And if they were so damn knowledgeable, they shouldn't have screamed like stuck pigs when their kids NC and never look back: Buh Bye, Felicia!
This is exactly right! I have been under attack for years for not doing and liking the things the narcissists like. I was "chastised at a family gathering for not wanting to play poker with everyone else. I don't like poker but according to the others I should like it, just like them. I was chastised because I don't like a birthday party for myself. I don't care if others have them but I don't want one for me. But I was told I should like them because others like them. These are such silly things to be angry about. But I have been treated with contempt because I don't always do the things other people want me to do. I have limited the time I spend with them to about once a year and never in a crowd.
Gwendolyn Wehage There's a saying that goes: "Stay away from shit because it smells" ;) Personally, in my opinion, I would cut them out of my life completely asap with no regrets. You've wasted enough time with them, spend that one time of the year with someone who doesn't treat you that way.
I've noticed a tendency for the narcissist to press for the very rules that they are most guilty of breaking. Then people around them are happy to follow the rules in the hope the narcissist will too. Also, the rule will be set to an exacting extreme. The narc continues usual rule-breaking behavior. Others are in a situation where they either unduly restrict their own behavior, or behave in a reasonable way that breaks unreasonable rules. Any slight against the rules will be used as excuse for the narc's bad behavior. Why should they follow the rules when others don't?
Right on. Their obsession with rules and rule-breaking indicates something about their mental immaturity: They don't know what rules are really for. They completely miss the point of control, discipline, and authority. It's a mystery to them, as it is with children. Ever notice young children at a certain age become obsessed with rules and rule-breaking, tattling on their friends, finding petty loopholes in what their parents say? It's because they don't yet understand that rules exist for REASONS: to protect life, protect property, to prevent harm and catastrophe. Adults follow rules and regulations because they see (at least to a greater degree than the average child) WHY it benefits them to do so. Children, being solipsistic, just see rules as a somewhat puzzling assortment of obstacles, prohibitions, rewards and punishments emanating from the mysterious world of adults. To them, a rule is just a locked box that they want to open, but they're intimidated by the adults' authority so they don't try too hard to open it. That's the Narc. That's their mental state. The difference is, now they're adults, they're harder to intimidate, and they're mastering all the clever ways to open all those boxes and move them around on people, meanwhile completely missing the point because they have no empathy. They yearn for a world in which they are the SUPER ADULT, the God, who gets to put all the locks on all the boxes and keeps the key for himself. That's their metaphysics. Terminally locked in solipsistic, sociopathic mental childhood.
He actually video taped me swearing to be with him forever and always. And we had to write a letter to the other about being faithful and loyal to each other, but he never was any of those things, but I truly was. So glad he's gone, my life is a light on full now.
He coldly discarded me at the very worst of my life leaving me so emotionally devastated that it's literally taken me over 20 yrs. to fully recognize and further recover from all the brutalities of his and his mother's severe catastrophic narcissism.
me: "where did you put the [ofc supply items]? they're not where they used to be..." narc ofc mgr: "i had to move them. if you need [ofc supply items], just ask me." me (uneasily): "ok..." me (a few hrs ltr): "hey [narc], can I get some [ofc supply items]?" narc ofc mgr: "no, I'm in the middle of ["task"]. you can ask me when I'm done." me: "when do you think you'll be finished?" narc ofc mgr: "I don't know, just keep checking back with me."
Perfect description of these control freak narcs ... always putting up road blocks, making you dance to their tune, trying to make you look incompetent. Yuck.
There was a high level of accountability for my time away from the home whereas he was insulted and punishing if I tried to make him account for his time. There was a high level of disgust expressed for men who cheated on their wives, yet he was cheating on me. There was a high level expectation that I and others show love and respect to all children yet he teased and brow beat his own children. Everyone else was expected to control their addictions, spending, finances while his lack of. Control of such things should go unnoticed...and on and on.
+Youu Yeah, they're so obvious. I guess if you want to know what they're up to, just listen to what they accuse YOU of doing. Pathetic and hilarious at the same time.
Their obsession with rules and rule-breaking indicates something about their mental immaturity: They don't know what rules are really for. They completely miss the point of control, discipline, and authority. It's a mystery to them, as it is with children. Ever notice young children at a certain age become obsessed with rules and rule-breaking, tattling on their friends, finding petty loopholes in what their parents say? It's because they don't yet understand that rules exist for REASONS: to protect life, protect property, to prevent harm and catastrophe. Adults follow rules and regulations because they see (at least to a greater degree than the average child) WHY it benefits them to do so. Children, being solipsistic, just see rules as a somewhat puzzling assortment of obstacles, prohibitions, rewards and punishments emanating from the mysterious world of adults. To them, a rule is just a locked box that they want to open, but they're intimidated by the adults' authority so they don't try too hard to open it. That's the Narc. That's their mental state. The difference is, now they're adults, they're harder to intimidate, and they're mastering all the clever ways to open all those boxes and move them around on people, meanwhile completely missing the point because they have no empathy. They yearn for a world in which they are the SUPER ADULT, the God, who gets to put all the locks on all the boxes and keeps the key for himself. That's their metaphysics. Terminally locked in solipsistic, sociopathic mental childhood.
I'm happy you brought this up because it explains my situation very clearly. Basically, there's someone who wanted a romantic relationship with me. Initially, I was intrigued. But they were moving too fast. You don't just go on a vacation to another country with someone you don't know. And I pushed for things to go at a normal pace. It's good that I did. Because I learned that this person tried to violate every boundary I had. This person ended up hacking into my email and wifi network. And finally, I think I rid them of their unwanted presence in my life by threatening to expose them with proof if they didn't leave me be. They are more or less stalking me right now. The interesting thing is that your explanation explains their behavior very much in line with their emotional standpoint. They have not matured beyond the level of that of a child. In such a way, they fail to understand that the boundaries around normal human interactions are set precisely to protect people. While I'm not condoning these people's behavior, I will say it has taught me to be strong and ruthless in protecting myself. This is something that I've learned with time and it has very clearly protected me. I recognize now that it's really rather simple to deal with sociopathic people once you recognize what flavor they are. Strong boundaries, assert them clearly and plainly. If they cross them, there are consequences. It's like if there's a speed limit and someone gets caught speeding, there's consequences. Sociopathic people need to learn their are consequences for their behavior. It's not about punishment for the sake of punishment. It's about protecting other people from their behavior.
An ex narcissist friend. Her rule (I came to find) was my house, my furniture, my friends and my large property was hers, not my own!. If I said no party's this weekend at my home, I was abused by her, I stood my ground and I was discarded. She took alot of my friends with her as well.
Been there too Julie. Those "friends" she took w/ her will slowly see the truth of who she really is now that you aren't her target. She will now go after them. Just sit back & you'll see it happen. Honestly, if they chose her over you are they really the people you thought they were? Once they see how abusive she is they will come around. Surround yourself w/ those you love & trust the most right now. You deserve only positive support. Similar situation happened to me. In only a short amount of time one friend came back to me apologizing for not believing me after they saw the narcs true identity.
I appreciate your videos very much! So much clarity! RULE: Keep the TARGET busy with all kinds of running for the NARCISSIST the business owner so TARGET has no time to think about the boundaries crossed.
@Mary Carroll 💯 Call me crazy or fanatical or over the top...but I’m convinced that, not only is it witchcraft (rebellion, just as you said), but they are also harboring the spirit of Jezebel and allowing it to operate through them.
@Mary Carroll I left my husband one month ago. We had been married for 4 years. My family is very supportive but, by the grace of God, they have never experienced what you and I have on a daily basis, so it is impossible for them to fully understand it all. If you have a Facebook, I would so grateful if you could send me a friend request so I could message you. I need wise counsel in a couple of areas. I’m sure your life is crazy busy. I promise I will not bother you with trivial questions or conversation but If you’re willing and you have the time, I would be so thankful if you could impart your wisdom to me concerning a couple of things I’m facing presently. If this is okay, you can find me on Facebook (Kristen McLester). My profile pic is the same as the pic on here. God bless you and thank you.
Scott, It's as if you came and observed my extended family. Every video is spot on! Also, please don't ever think you are rambling on about any of this brutal subject matter. I'm sure I can speak for many of your viewers by saying we could listen to you all day, as you give us a voice and validation with the insanity we have had to go thru, with us not knowing what the heck it was all about!!!
I'm still with a narc, in the process of trying to get out. he always told me I am messy and that it's impossible for someone as tidy and rigorous as himself to live with someone like me. Before we lived together I assumed this was true. The last time he said it I pointed to the drifts of unopened mail on the floor of the dining room. Instead of acknowledging his obvious hypocrisy (A narc never blushes) he said 'you don't see me tidying up constantly', 'no I don't see that' I said because he never lifts a finger. He smiled sadly, 'there's a lot you don't notice.' They are experts at deflection and sending any implied criticism right back on our heads. This used to work. Now I look at him and think wow, you are a piece of work.
In reply to ways narcissists use justification for isolation that I experienced: Using supposed concern for your safety as a means to keep you from doing things that your interested in or that you need to do. Then on the other hand they will put you into dangerous situations without having to justify the reason other than they know what they are doing or what will not or can not happen. ... hope that makes sense. 🤔 Writing this actually validates my perceptions. Thank you for your insightful videos!
BB Gomez This is so true. When I think about the dangerous situations I've been put in, omg But he's raging at me for going to the grocery store by myself, (someone might have a gun and rape me.) sounds crazy, you can't make this stuff up!
Nearly every idea I have to do anything is met with stories of how dangerous it could be and shouldn't be done without him present. On the flip side riding in a vehicle with him feels more dangerous than a walk in the wilderness with mountain lions. He's always trying to teach people lessons on the road 🙄
OMG! I knew that his ideas of how to keep me "safe" were contradictory and insane to the point of ridiculous - warning me to stay away from the edge of a riverbank as if I were too stupid to be able to even choose a path to walk without his "help," but it hadn't occurred to me before that that was exactly what he was telling me and wanting me to believe - that I'm not smart enough to do anything without him to guide and "protect" me, and of course, everyone around us thinks it's cute, and I'm so lucky to have someone who cares so much, and I shouldn't discourage him in any way from wanting to protect me, warning me that if I mess that up for myself, I won't be able to get it back again when I start missing it, blah, blah, blah!!!
When I was living on my own narc dad would try to provoke arguments with me when he'd just show up at my house about where I grocery shopped and that I spent too much money on groceries and he'd get super upset about it yelling about it. Yet he went out to eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner everyday and ate at home only once in a blue moon. He tries to make you feel guilty and undeserving of spending any money on things you need let alone want because of income bracket yet he can spend big money on fancy cars, furniture , and fun things because "he can". It really messed me up pretty bad. He would even go as far as to make you feel guilty for being alive as in having any needs at all basically giving the message that you don't deserve to exist and have any human rights.
Oh my goodness! THIS is the greatest video! It speaks to exactly what I've been dealing with for 4 YEARS with a woman who joined my sweet women's Bible study class at my church!!! I have felt so defeated by this woman as I have tried to be Christ-like and kind, but have felt scorned and rejected in return. I was actually teaching the class the day she first came to our class. She walked through the door into the class and stated, "I'm changing classes because the old ladies in the last class couldn't smell themselves, so they just kept applying more and more fragrance, and they don't realize how they stink." She soon singled me out, sent me an email telling me, "your fragrance burns my nose clear across the room." Not long after, the class met to go to a movie together and from clear across the lobby, this woman yelled at me and said, "Are you wearing perfume?" I said, "I do have on a little, I usually do." She proceeded to climb to the very top of the theater away from me and a few of the other women joined her away from me and some others because they felt sorry for her. We went to lunch as a group one day and when another woman came in to join us, this woman said in front of the whole group to her, "If I would have known you were going to be here, I wouldn't have come!" One Sunday she brought a large stapled group of documents about fragrances to class and let us know we were the cause of our grandchildren's learning disabilities, etc. She campaigned and campaigned. She got two other women to join in her "cause," and they went to women in our class to tell them they were "smelly." I had just been an interim teacher when she joined. The other teacher and our Director of the class told her to sit away from anyone wearing fragrance. She told us that "SOME" fragrances were OK for her. But, some dryer sheets, makeup, hair product, etc., did cause her problems. The Director of the class soon told everyone in the class that we could no longer wear any fragrance to class. They told her to either wear a mask or leave if she couldn't take someone's fragrance in case someone did come (like a visitor!) What happened is that she began leaving A LOT. No one in class knew who it was who "smelled" wrong for her. Soon some of the women began to leave as they felt embarrassed. The Director sometimes got up and chastised us when this woman would leave so we all felt horrible. The Director started getting up with her hands on her hips and lecturing us on being kind to this woman by not wearing any fragrance she might have a problem with. She did this after any new woman joined the class. We were told that to be Christ-like, we couldn't wear any fragrance. What has happened in this class is that this woman now has the Director and the teacher working her campaign on her behalf. She only has to get up and leave and they (the flying monkeys) take over and chastise and condemn for her. Over the course of these 4 years I have noticed that she is not consistent...at all...in when she leaves. At times I have had on fragrance and she stays and is fine. Other times, she gets up and leaves when I come in when I don't have any fragrance on at all. Now that I have been given this information, I can see this woman is a very controlling narcissist. She now controls the entire class. They have placed her in a position of leadership...in charge of all new members who join our class. She has effectively removed me from the class by embarrassing me in front of the class over and over. I just decided I wouldn't subject myself to it anymore. When I first began listening to tapes about narcissists, their characteristics reminded me of Satan and the way he comes in to deceive us and what the Bible says about him wanting to be lifted up to be God himself. Scriptures states that Satan comes only to kill, steal, and destroy. I have been dealing with this in my church, watching this woman hurt, destroy and steal. She has made so many of us feel unwelcome and like something is wrong with us. I see now that the ones who are left are under her control (she is also in charge of all the class parties, trips, "fun" times). The ones she can control have stayed. Those who won't be controlled by her have left the church. It's so very sad. But, there is no "authority" in that class to rein her in...to handle the situation. She came in. She assessed. Then she took action. She has been effective, efficient, and successful in taking over control of a group for her "supply." Incredible. What does one do other than leave an "organization" where this is how it is? Until this video, other than my daughter and son-in-law, no one believed or cared this was happening.
I would also agree with the main idea being conveyed here. What I call it is emotional leverage. Narcissists seek to use any kind of social, institutional, or professional rule set to get leverage on you. At the same time they will dismiss or invalidate these same rules when applied to them.
I believe you're speaking or cognitive bias. It creates conflict in our minds and we will lie to ourselves when reality does not match our values or beliefs - cognitive dissonance. Always great videos!
so glad to be out of that cage....which was a long, painful process to get out of. much of the process was using knowledge like yours to guide me out! great video as always, Scott
You could go on and on, I would not get annoyed. You had me giggling there. I remember, the narc I dated had rules of conduct. I had to dress a certain way, hold myself up a certain way, have my makeup a certain way (not the reason I don't wear makeup every day anymore), and those rules stood out. There were other, more subtle rules, but they changed at a whim to suit the narc's purposes, but the ones I mentioned were unchanging, constant. Oh, and I had to earn my right to be with him and act as though I didn't need his affection to deserve his affection, otherwise he didn't want to give it to me. But he would also have me beg and use it against me if I didn't but also if I did. Anyway, thank you again, I love your videos. Can you talk about recognising narcissists on social media? At some point. Would love to hear your take and thoughts on that. 😊 Thx again!
The rules that my narcissist imposed on me was that I was not allowed to leave the house, but if i ever questioned him he said "what do i have to check in with you?", he would always say i was going to meet his friends and family, then the next week he would say absolutely not. He was living with another woman who knows his friends and family that i didnt know about. So there is a double standard. He would never let me talk to exes because they "were bad people" but in his mind his exes "were saints" so therefore it made it ok. He always has 6 women on the go at one time and he thinks nobody can figure it out. He also would say things like "lets go to Seattle" but he would never take me there but he took the other woman. Almost as if he always had me on the hook like something great was going to happen but it never did. I would always question him and state that he plays double standard rules, but when i questioned him I would always get a blank stare. By contrast, when ever he would try to argue to get "fuel" I would say lets turn this around how would you feel if you were me? and his face would turn white. It is almost as if he had a conscience. He then developed nightmares and became cold and distant. Moral of the story is that they will always try something new if it doesnt work, but if you turn it on them and question they back down and disappear
I'll give an example: rules on conversation; more specifically, interrupting and how long a speaker is permitted to talk. The narcissist will claim to be staunchly anti-interrupting when someone is talking -- this seems like a reasonable rule, because let's face it, everyone hates being interrupted and frankly it's rude. They also say that it's unfair for one person to talk for too long, and this also seems reasonable. Thing is, the narcissist only seems to notice this injustice if they're interrupted or they feel someone else has been talking long enough to take the spotlight off themselves. I live with a narcissist who will actually police conversations at the dinner table -- telling someone that they need to stop talking because it's someone else's turn to talk (usually herself). If someone interrupts her when she's talking, she will yell at them and they're not allowed to talk. However, she routinely interrupts everyone else when they're talking (this usually only applies to the family though -- she will rarely interrupt a visitor), and if someone points this out to her, she'll say "You were talking too long already, it's someone else's turn," (her own). Also, while she will frequently make the claim that she was justified in interrupting someone else because they were talking "too long" (which in most cases they didn't even get a chance to finish one story), she will talk and talk and talk and does not stop talking (I think Understanding Narcissists did a video about how narcissist talk and don't stop talking). She can talk for 30 minutes without taking a break. It feels more like she's giving a speech or a monologue than a real conversation. Even when she's been talking that long, if someone "interrupts" her (usually they'll just comment on something she just said, wrongly assuming she was done talking because it seemed like she had finished the story), she will react the same way by yelling at them and saying how rude they're being. I've had entire evenings where the only person who said more than two sentences at a time was the narcissist.
They are very convincing to the outsiders, not for you. I kept observing them in silence and training myself to not react to them emotionally. This was very not welcome for them. I continued my observation and at the same time preparing my freedom and my new life. Everything happened as it was predictable. They even had to break with me first, but I already was done with them a month before when I said goodbye to the grandkids. They didn’t expect that I already said my goodbyes. Anyway I am in a new path now and learning from a good life. My husband (for 20 years now) is great and very himself and independent like me. I live in another country now. I still have to finish protecting officially what is mine because I am aware that they could do anything.
The number one rule is that they are not perfect and everyone has issues, but they will never identify those issues and if you do, you are wrong for it. but they can rant for literally hours about your problems. You are wrong to be upset at your elders for doing something wrong
My Narc spouse would come home late from work every day (even though we agreed on a time for everyone to be home as a family) and start criticizing and questioning everything: the floor is dirty, there are dishes in the sink, did the cats get fed? did you walk the dog? why are these lights on? So many rules for me, but no rules for her. Then she would expect me to drop everything and listen to her talk. An aha moment was when I told her she needed to sweep the floor and she said she didn't know how. I handed her the broom and she actually bumbled and pretended to not know how to use a broom - clumsily pushing the broom around and awkwardly holding it. It was ridiculous. A few weeks later I went to the basement and she was sweeping up a broken glass just fine.
Your advices I find are so helpful for women. Your advices and commentary are so insightful in ways that differ to those from female therapists which are equally helpful insightful but come from slightly different angle. I don’t know how to fully explain this but I have found all your videos amazing. Thank you and to all the men and women who create blogs and sites to help and make us survivors. I refuse to use the word “victim”
Here's 2...he could go out whenever but I needed to be home to be a good wife & mother. Also I was thr the only one working but when I bought up we could do so much better with him working too, God would provide! so glad to be out of the crazy house.
My brother has been married to a narcissist for a few years. She recently got pregnant by another guy (paternity test confirmed it) She still doesn't think she did anything wrong, she's blaming him and anybody she can except herself. needless to say he's divorcing her & I couldn't be happier. The challenge will be undoing what she's done to him, he's lost himself in that relationship.
TaprootToob Oh but they *do* ""understand:" As George Simon PhD observed, "It's not they don't see, They just don't agree" that the rules, norms, mores etc. of society apply to them. They're special, dontchaknow. I believe that was one of the core concepts presented here.
Thank God he is able to walk away. I can just hear the narrative she probably tried to generate about how it was your brother's fault his wife cheated on him and got pregnant with another man's child, and how your brother should be a "real man" and stand by her side and help her raise this kid. Why? Wait...oh, yeah. Cuz THE RULES DON'T APPLY to the narcissist. Ever.
I get this haha. I imagine it as a new worker coming into a job and not knowing the rules. A narcissist would use the rules set up by the institution to scold him and keep him under control. The narcissist will nitpick everything to keep him stressed, on his toes and distracted so they can get away with what they want. They find ways to tap into influence and power that comes from collectives and use it against you, and it's much harder to fight that because there is a feeling that there are a number of people would agree with the narcissist, take their side, and be against you.
One thing I have found especially around Rules and the Narc - Common Law Rules in UK - as in Child arrangement Orders via the uk courts is the narc will do everything they possibly can to disrupt - my ex narc gf - will continually flaunt the rules set by a judge - so much so it required me to take her back court to enforce - I said she was manipulating the court order - the judge said there's a difference between manipulation and Belligerence - in my view they both amounted to the same thing - loss of time with my children as ordered by the court - it's just one example of rule breaking - they test - provoke and see how far your willing to go to stop their behaviours. Their behaviours deserve an Oscar - they purposely break the rules then cry victim for what they did - I found they always use 3rd party references to try and cover for their own behaviour - as it's never their fault - always pushing the boundaries - the judge agreed and awarded me more time with the kids as my point was - how can any court enforce time that's lost? So due to ex narcs belligerence to his court previous court order - he awarded me and the children more holiday time
He would steal my things, or destroy my things, or pawn my things, and I was never allowed to bring it up, if I dared to asked about any of my disappeared belongings, it translated to I was calling him and his son thieves. He took all my money, by the hundreds, but if I gave $10 to a hungry friend, that was UNACCEPTABLE, she was just Using me. They live to use me like they're doing me the favor, and when I'm sick and weak and suicidal, it's because I am mentally ill. Born into a family of narcissists and being targeted by narcs my whole life as mates and friends alike, this understanding has completely changed my life. I knew, somehow, always, only man I ever dated who ISN'T a narcissist is the one I married, turned all the others down, but friends and family always weaseled their way back, until now.
My Narc initiation was in a strictly religious setting. Gods grace was everyones excuse for breaking moral code, which the narc filled household of all females from 3 generations seemed to rather enjoy with a wink and a nod. There were no rules when I walked in, only one- "Whoever wants it the most, gets it". I thought this only meant free for all gifts I often brought, or a decision to be made, whatever, but it was deeper than that. I live by moral rules with consequences if broken and that was the only think that helped me break away. I got disgusted at myself for where I was letting the creature (and flying monkeys) take me...down a crooked road to Hell. Thank you for your thought provoking, coaxing style of counsel. It's made me look back at the facade in a different way tonight. Thing I'll subscribe and hear more.....
Double standards. Broke up last year. He could show up at my house but I couldn't show up at his. He liked to talk but I was cut off from normal discussion. It was such a turn off knowing how the normal order of things go. I hung on knowing and did like a case study like on a psych patient. I found out he was diagnosed as a child with bipolar probably under diagnosed or misdiagnosed. Textbook narcisisst
Oh yeah because they hide from you but feel entitled to be in your life whenever they want abuse you & come and go. Come to your home whenever don't inform you but if you do this .. how dare you!! They are hypocrites definitely!
Also they have to hide from you hate confrontation. You coming to them & asking any questions or confronting like saying your a Covert Narc aren't you? Your a liar that manipulated me controlled me..anything they can't be confronted by you. You show up & do this hell no in their mind! You are destroying their ego their false self then they have to feel worse have to confront their own black hole. All that matter is themselves you don't! They are more then selfish if you learn nothing else. Unless you are with them & they don't want to lose you. You can make some demands gifts etc.. it's sad all of it really. So surreal can't wrap my head around it. All my Narc wanted & still wants is complete control of me.
You don't want to be involved with the family.. trust me! My Covert Narcs family the parents act strange. They only discuss the weather nothing personal that I saw. Took photos all wearing matching shirts above others it's all a show they put on fake facade nothing real. If something bad happens to one of them they pretend it was nothing there fine all good all a show.
Scott, one must really experience this in order to understand it. In this video, I feel your angst in trying to explain the behavior of a narcissist in a clear and concise manner. They are so slippery and cameleon -like that in order to understand them and wrap your head around their way of thinking, you must transport yourself to a place that defies logic and humanity. It is indeed a scary, evil place to visit. God bless all of us who have suffered under the hand of such evil beings.
Double standards, getting trapped in a cause, preaching and holding up ultimate standards so convincingly, but doing things that are beyond the pale, without conscience, wanting and needing to uphold the dream, being too far invested, feeling betrayed but never allowed to mention the inconsistencies without the rage and they don't care anyway.
The strange thing I was fooled in the beginning...but as time went on....I KNEW he was working on me...I could not let go because of FEAR of not having him...well..in time I truly knew the game he played and KNEW for my own sanity I had to leave..it DOES take time to feel the wave of emotion that rises at different times to just stop myself and REMEMBER what the truth was..and the truth...HIS TRUTH was a lie...and all he was and is...really is a lie..ty you for this video....
I live in a building where the building manager is a narcissist. All the residents are 55+ , some ranging to 100+ . We have a Board of Governors, a Financial Committee, and other committees to look after things. We also have a constitution and bylaws. Guess who is considered to be the expert on the rules and regulations governing this complex? Yep, its the Narc. Board members ask him how to proceed. Not only that, he is generally considered the life and soul of this complex. Given constitutional authority to play with, he dominates the expenditures as well as his own time spent on the job. When newcomers move in, we receive an incomplete set of the constitution and bylaws. We cannot challenge him on anything. Yet some of us see the inconsistencies between words, actions, and failures to act but we are singled out, isolated, maligned, and our voices are diminished or disregarded altogether. Most seniors have given up trying to remedy the situation. I WILL TRY HARDER KNOWING WHAT WE ARE UP AGAINST.
They do seem to try and set up weird relational dynamics like this as well as it being a contradictory method of behavior for themself; Authority/Rebel, Parent/Child, Unwell/Healer, Hero/Victim etc
I can only imagine the pain you've endured in your life at the hands of a narcissist Scott. Your wisdom & knowledge is immense on this topic. It must come from years of hurt. I'm so sorry you've gone through it. The biggest rule of my narc ex "best friend" was related to dating. He could date all he wanted but my attention had to be solely dedicated to him at all times. You can only imagine the hell that broke loose after the person he was pursuing wanted to be w/ me & not him. Absolute hell on earth....
For the narc norms be it legal or social do not matter unless it benefits them. There is a hell of a lot of hypocrisy with them. They value privacy and individuality except for yours. Whatever suits them.
you're singing to the choir. I dearly love my family but most have inherited the controlling, manipulative, victim, shame and a few that could be poster children for Narcissism. I have been thru the brow beating, " it's all your fault and I'm the victim", " you need to get balanced" I have stress anxiety with panic attacks. I no longer living alone. I live with a family member. since I was diagnosed with PTSD also, there are so many triggers that I had yet another emotional crisis. I'm not going to share what I've gone thru personally because I have trust issues but I feel trapped. I woke up this morning crying. But I'm still caught up in that "going along to get along, people pleasing, and beating myself up because I need to stick to my boundaries, and attempting to explain that I'm not having a pity party but there's triggers that it's totally futile and exhausting to explain because again-I can't dwell in the past:. I love my family but I crave the privacy I once had.
Knowledge is power. This information is crucial. Your very life depends on it!! Don't get fooled again. Usually if you have been involved with one narcissist and break up ( you never really break up from one. They have to die or be institutionalized) another one will find you. Eyes wide open.
Thank you Rebecca for your advice. After I discovered I was in a relationship a Narc, a short one thank goodness, I decided to bury myself into learning all I could about Narcissism / in an "I need to know" sort of way, to help myself understand it all. I've never researched a topic or was driven to learn so much about anything before that fateful day Narcissism entered my life. True, eyes wide open..and always, always, always trust your instincts, they NEVER lie..If something doesn't feel quite right, or feels "off " to you about someone, or if there is a red flag staring you in the face, then there most likely IS something wrong..Face it and remove yourself from the relationship as soon as possible, because the longer you hold off, the harder it will be and the worse you are going to feel, both physically and emotionally. As I said, I was only in my relationship for a short period of time ( 3.5 months) but even in the short period of time, I was left with some lingering effects of what my ex put me through. I was denying what was happening..I doubted myself and what was unraveling before my very eyes, because I didn't want to believe it. What bothers me the most from my experience is that I will always have trust issues..I'm sure they will lessen in time, but it'll always be there in the back of my head as to whether or not someone is being upfront and truthful with me. Its sucks because I never had second thoughts about anyone before my experience with a Narc. I am not a naive person, but I never thought anyone could be as evil, manipulative and destructive as my ex was. Unfortunately, my outlook towards others has dramatically changed. But the further I educate myself about narcissism, I am hopeful that it will eventually change. Hugs to all, and know that this community stands by you. We are all here for each other, whether for advice and /or support or to further educate ourselves. Thank you Scott for this and all of your other videos. Your book was very insightful. Fantastic job on that! Be strong all and God Bless.
i can't agree with you more...Have had an experience with a narcissistic boy for 2 months and honestly, I feel like my brain's been ultimately messed up. I have never imagined anyone could be so evil, deliberately toxic and heartless. I will now be worried at all times if anyone else I meet will also have this special condition i was never familiar with. This kind of saddens me. My stomach churns at the fact that he has multiple victims wrapped around his fingers in this country (he moved 2 months ago) that are feeding his ego everyday. I wish him deported or just gone from this world.
Your logic is probably going over most heads. But I understand completely. My sister is a narcissist and she will break the rules but when it comes to her helping me obtain employment in her field, she then follows all the rules referring to my experience level etc. She cheated on her husband, but then insults me when my narc husband left me. She gave loads of reasons why he left me (rules) blaming me for pushing him away. But her husband left and remarried quickly and then never blamed herself as to what she did wrong. I grew up with this weirdness. But, I was shocked to find out there are so many narcs here in society. They are everywhere causing havoc in so many lives, like an alien invasion of sorts.
I was raised by these people and internalized their messages\values. I am the opposite to avoid being like them. However, when trying to do anything good for myself I experience how I think they feel inside. I feel undeserving so my temptation is to devalue someone/something else to feel worthy of them. Narcissists develop huge degrees of self-deception to avoid these feelings of unworthiness because putting self first is a habit for them in any situation. They automatically seek to devalue, dominate, own and/or control anything they feel inferior to.
yes we question their sanity then we do turn away and don't see it because it's all too hard then we start to question our own sanity. that's right we don't want to see it and that is the most dangerous thing
When I got married, I just thought my inlaws had their issues but meant well. Boy was I wrong! I have a narc mil and codependent fil. Basically, no one can have feelings about anything. Only she is allowed to have them. They tried to control each of their sons lives in every aspect, including having financial access to bank accounts. Even commenting on my sister inlaws spending.) and when I set boundaries, they couldn’t handle it. And started bad mouthing me to my husband and anyone else who would listen. Luckily my husband has seen through their bs for a long time. It’s almost as if mil expected everyone to live through life and make the same choices she did, and if you didn’t, you were an idiot..... the crazier thing is one of their sons ex girlfriends even chose the same college degree as mil just to make her happy. This girl let mil control her every decision just to gain approval, and now they’re broken up. This girl altered her life for them. It’s crazy what they can get someone to do.
A perfect word to describe the dynamic of a narcissistic home is inured. The tone that has been crafted becomes the norm and its hard to see the truth especially for the "good" child.
I knew a narcissist that would read the Bible for hours every day. She would take copious notes and put biblical notes and passages on Facebook. The Bible was the ultimate authority and was the literal truth in every word. After hours of reading, she would close the book and then treat everyone around her like garbage.
Dude... you are incredibly insightful on the subject. Unlike any other educator. Yes. They are super crafty and flexible in customizing the manipulations.
It’s like playing football, getting charged with carrying (in basketball), making a touchdown, but the referee calling “fault” as in tennis and the game scored like a round of golf. If he is still losing...he takes the puck, places me in the penalty box because everything is a competition and I ALWAYS have to be the winner. WTF.
My parent-in-laws love to shame and guilt us when we don't do exactly as they wish for things like holidays or birthdays. This mother's day, MIL had my SIL (one of her flying monkeys) send my husband a nasty message: "Tomorrow is Mother's Day. Email Mum or get on webcam". My husband decided not to adhere to either of those commandments. He instead sent an ecard, letting them all know that he'll honor his mother as he would like and not as he is commanded. His mother feigned a Thank You for the ecard, but then slipped in a guilt trip about how she hasn't spoken to him on webcam in a while (you and I both know this is a way to shame him for not having gotten on webcam on Mother's Day as he was directed to do). She closed by wishing **ME** a nice Mother's Day (late and very unaffectionately), because naturally she needs to be seen as a martyr who is "thoughtful". It's interesting that she completely ignored my birthday this year, and then ignored Father's Day for my husband...but if my husband hadn't at least sent that ecard, his name would have surely been MUD. They can ignore any holiday they like, sent passive-aggressive messages, etc but if my husband doesn't follow their exact directives to the letter, he's guilted and shamed. Well, let me clarify: he really couldn't care less, but he acknowledges that they are TRYING to guilt and shame him. I know it bothers him on some level, because he used to look up to these people as infallible because that is the conditioning he had all through childhood. His mother is always the quivering, shivering martyr who is always so poorly treated by others despite her "thoughtfulness", which is always doled out either with strings attached, only for the audience member in question to witness, or as a means to convince herself that she deserves better than what she gets in return because a.) she's the parent, and as such deserves "respect" no matter WHAT and b.) she is so giving of herself (puke) that her children should cater to her every emotional whim in exactly the way she decides they should in each and every moment as a sign of their love and loyalty.
My hat's off to you! My husband and I are taking care of my covert-narc MIL and let me tell you, I now see how and why my husband used to act the way he did. She herself is textbook CN but luckily on a lighter level. Still she tried all the narc tactics in the book on me, not knowing that I was already on to her and pretty much ignored her silliness, lol. It is true about the narcissistic rage that boils up when they don't get what they want. The pupils of her eyes have become blacker than night with nothing behind them but rage. I get chills thinking about it!
No, sorry, we're on Very Low Contact, so a facetime was not on the menu. Contacting the abuser just because they ask you to is only going to perpetuate the abuse.
Awww, poor widdle MIL, aka the Timid Forest Creature(tm). Her "presentation" is about as fresh as an N typology archeological find. And as common as broken pottery.
This sounds so very very familiar. I came to realize my covert narcissist's mother falls along this line ... she seems slightly borderline/somatic narcissist blend with sometimes overt tendencies. Likewise his father is without a doubt an overt peacock and his brother is judge and prosecutor which mainly lies on the overt range and see-saws momentarily into covert. It's like being around a pack of ravenous hyenas that play nicely around each other and smear each other when their backs are turned. Everything is done with strings attached and debt (along with their needs are more important than anyone's despite circumstances). Good thing your husband knows to minimize the demands and stands his own ground!
I've never seen a narcissistic person who cares,or even act like they care,I don't know too many of them but I've noticed they act like they have no emotions like that at all,I believe I'm empathic,I've been accused of caring too much, or been told my niceness is going to get me in trouble, which actually it kinda did,with the wrong people.
Good video on this subject. Scott my Narc used his sister's abusive ex boyfriend who wasn't a good person to her, and her children. He used that a lot to deflect when I approached him on any negative things that I caught him with. It was like he was looking for pity, as if he was the hero to help his family out. At the time I was speaking about some pretty serious things in our relationship. While along now knowing the abuse of a Narc now in my life. He was just deflecting. This is when I started to have a sense to ones self something isn't right with my relationship. A year and 6 months with no contact.
My ex always tried to set rules for me and for us. Even though he lived one town over, ten minutes away, there was always a reason why he couldn't come over. He had to help his grandparents pack for a move. He wasn't feeling well. He accidentally fell asleep and is now too foggy to get in the car and drive over. I made a big deal of it because .... well .... I wanted to spend time with him. So, he talked with his grandmother and they agreed that two nights a week was a good limit. God forbid I should try to ask him over more than the set limit or complain. I was too needy, controlling, and ultimately annoying. It didn't make sense. I could never understand, given how close we lived, and how much he said he cared about me, that he didn't want to spend more time with me. I never saw why ther was such an issue. I guess I know now.
The repetitive inconsistency made me think that he was sloppy at thinking, so he had no evil plans and thus was harmless or incapable of ultimately causing real damage. Even his rages seemed unsourced and unexplainable. But there was always a hidden advantage for himself that came out in end and deep pain for me. It took me a lot of time to realize that his insanity was manufactured for eventually destroying my reputation and breaking my soul , it was his only purpose in life. He always broke the rules as if he was entitled to special treatment for some reason, he was unaware of even the simplest basic notions of any kind. For example he had zero religious knowledge or political opinions yet if I commented the news or an article, he was ready to point out that I was some heretical criminal for just having an idea. A big propaganda against me. He must have been looking forward to have me declared insane. That would be a victory for any narc. Luckily I'm still standing, working successfully for our three children, looking great, being caring and helpful for the people who love me.
The "Rules" were just another form of devaluing me. He often choose these abstracted social rules or authorities as a point of comparison so that he could criticize me. He did the same with others with comments like "Well, I just assumed it was an agreed upon rule that...." Whatever they write in the New Yorker magazine was also used as a comparison and he believed it must be true. He loved authority figures from ivy league schools and making comparisons based elite education. The subtext message was always "I do not measure up."
Had a narc landlord once. He tried continually to impose laundry restrictions on all tenants. 1st he charged us all every month to use “community machines” Then… when each of us bought our own machines. New rule: “We could only do 2 loads per day. Even though it was our own electric bills & machines. If you broke this rule… he would key your car somewhere when u weren’t looking. All these scratches; until cameras were installed. Avoid narc landlords - You want peace where you rest - MOVE at all costs !! They are demon-critters; ALL of them. Love my new place, in a new healthy community 💙❤️🙂.
Thank you for this excellent video. The actions and overall behaviour you describe here sound like something a ’communal narcissist’ would do. The one I know made rules and one of them excluded me from visiting their house. This allows well their double standards and role playing. People seem to be treated like objects by them, taken from the shelf for usage and then put back when not needed. It took me one year and three seemingly ’natural’ discards (where by manipulation he made sure I looked as if I did not fit in with the rest, so he had the grounds to ask me to stay out) to understand that this is what was actually happening. As you said, the manipulation is often extremely subtle so one needs to look at the facts and listen to gut feelings.
The narcist needs to be free to break any rule, be it society's, yours, his, nature's, or an agreement *and* get away with it. Only then did they proof how they stand above everything, godlike.
rules: you must be poor. you may not spend money. if you spend money, it means you aren't poor enough. you must wear socks or hosiery always. you must wear a slip even if you skirt is fully lined and a floodlight can't shine through. it's a really nice skirt but of course it was a free hand-me-down due to rules 1 and 2.
.My observations as far as their controlling behaviour tends to revolve around stuff. Either how stuff should be placed, folded,washed, hung or used. They control the environment that way, but they also talk down about others as well always offering other people have broken rules and they have not. And they can be so convincing that they really are superior beings in the household.
In regards to their ways of "communicating" to (not w/) their targets. In my experience, they gauge their targets, they take mental notes, an inventory of what will pull your trigger. They are true predators, true vampires.
I've been married to a narcissist for (hold your hat) 38 years. I was totally brainwashed by this man for all of these years. It wasn't until the past 4 years that I realized that I was used, abused and manipulated in to a person that I no longer knew. I started counseling...which he said I didn't need because "he would help me". Counselors only tell you what you want to hear....haha I should tell you that I have suffered with anxiety and panic attacks for years but nothing like I've suffered in the past 4 years. I've realized that my marriage is all about me giving and giving and him taking AND expecting more. He tells me I haven't earned any respect. He accuses me of having affairs and then I find him in our driveway making out with a woman. His Viagra stash is slowly disappearing. I've been ready to sign divorce papers but just as I get ready to process the papers, he verbally and emotionally attacks and I start with panic attacks and shut down. This has happened three times in the past two years. My counselor tells me to have him removed by the police and get a divorce. It isn't that easy and I'm losing myself. I feel I''m going crazy. This is the biggest obstacle to overcome to move on. Can someone please tell me how I'm going to get over this anxiety and get out of this relationship.
PLEASE take your counsellor's suggestion. The sooner you get him out of your life, the sooner the REAL you will begin to return. She's a cool chick, remember?
Martie Smith I can relate.. been married to the N for 28 years.. I too have horrible panic and anxiety and I filed for divorce a year and a half ago.. still in court 😖.. you can do it!! Get someone to give you some tranquilizers and find someone who can go with you to the lawyer or court.. My personal experience is my anxiety will be really bad until I get where I need to go and then after I'm there a few minutes and start getting distracted with the details it calms down.. I would not let the N know of anything you are doing and do not just go and file for divorce without doing your homework.. Get copies of as much stuff as you can.. bills, bank accounts, any accounts with money, pensions, 401k's... Try and get proof of any of the n's bad behaviors, etc... But, no matter what you do don't ever clue him in to anything you are doing or plan to do.. If he's anything like my n, he will try to cover his tracks... My n was stunned when he got the divorce papers, never saw it coming and with an n you want to take them off guard.. If he's violent or you think he may become violent, make sure you tell your lawyer you must be informed ahead of time when he will be served so you can get out of dodge ahead of time.. I did this.. my n has never been physically violent but I did not take the chance as I thought there was a good possibility the papers could push him over the edge.. I don't know where you live but if it is legal for one party consent, record his abuse.. get a journal and document what happens every day.. Once you file for divorce, any issues of importance where you must communicate with the n, do it through email or text so you have a record of what was said as the n will try and twist your words.. Find a lawyer who specializes in high conflict divorce as they will have dealt with more n's and should be better at dealing with them... I didn't think I would ever be strong enough to do it either but I'm doing it and you can too.. Good luck!!
I believe their are lots of people who enjoy treating people like sh*t,I've had some put on a show where they use me as a verbal punching bag,they believe if they are mad that gives them the right to anything they want, it will come back around, I truly believe that.
it's all about control by any means. if that means being the victim, or the strong, or using your weaknesses, or using the court or cops,. or pretending to be "stupid,' they will use it against you. control by any means. but in a triggered state, they won't remember any ounce of love or action you've taken on their behalf. what would infuriate him the most was that he couldn't find a pattern with me. he couldn't figure out a logical way to pacify me. no amount of gifts or time. He would look at any change in my tone or face and guess at what it meant and follow me and argue with me until I broke down when I would try to gather my thoughts and deal with things in a way that wouldn't cause a fight.
My husband forces me to keep objects at home the way he wants, he may be right, but there's a kind of bullying there and trying to make a mess out of a small thing, and thus putting me to shame, and glorifying himself. Instead of making things light, he makes it an issue, a humongous one...aargh
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Never interrupt them. Never correct them. Never deny them. Never criticize them. But they can do all of that to you
And WILL.
Yes !!!!
So true!!
A constant shifting of morals to suit the intention.
yes +1
They can do whatever they want, whenever. God forbid you do the same. Hell to pay.
Yeah they are the biggest hypocrites oh my God!! Then they scream at you, " why are you doing that or why the hell would you do that!""
I believe they are possessed they are evil wanting to hurt you for being alive. Envy the heck out of you too!!!
chestnut638 If we all only knew what we go through. Thank God I'm moving a chapter I my life
Bravo! Do not look back!!
Exactly. My ex was very jealous. His biggest issue was that my job was easier than his! He could not stand the fact I got home 30 minutes earlier. I could go on and on. So much insanity.
chestnut638 most definitely! !!
i think their game is denying you the right to hurt even so they avoid accountability (endlessly). your work is excellent
It makes me giggle to hear you say they want to limit you in every possible way without you being suspicious....so ridiculous that this is true.. I enjoyed this one.
SO TRUE
What I've learned is that there's no need to ever get revenge on these savages. They are tortured by thr void they feel inside their chest. The emptiness the inability to love and feel is literally a.death sentence. They can't and won't ever be healthy that's the revenge we get. Just go no contact and let the empty voided human implode.
Eddie Knows well said!
Exactly. And they will.. implode.. in the end, they do it to themselves. We escape with our sanity & no blood on our hands. I’ve seen it.. they die as they lived.. miserably.
Yes, there's never a need to take revenge on anyone. The wicked will be destroyed by their own wickedness.
Hi,you have a great understanding
I've seen it happen again and again in my 49 years to these types. It might seem like they're getting away with something and then out of nowhere something completely blows up on them (that I did nothing to cause by the way)
Total hypocrites!! Do as they say not as they do. Action never matches their words. It's all about control!!
Carroll Cotton so true. Seems weird they are hard to walk away from. I guess you don't get closer bc you never fully know them..
In the case of a parent or other immediate family member, they are inherently hard to walk away from because they are family. It is not natural to walk away from family, even if it is necessary.
Yes, I was not even allowed to express my own thoughts, feelings, or faith in God. I was told what to think by the narc.
It was fine for them to be emotional, but not for me to be. When I would become emotional -- very upset, or sad, or happy -- I was told to calm down, and would get comments such as "I knew you were sensitive, but not that sensitive." They didn't want for me to express my feelings and they ignored what I felt. Like none of my own feelings mattered.
I can relate to that. My narc dad always wanted to dump his feelings on me and still tries but any time I expressed my feeling about anything especially if I was upset I would either get ignored or told to move on and to let it go. Then later he'd find ways to punish be by using what I said against me. For example a friend that I had for ten years ended up hurting me and the friendship ended. My narc dad brought her up to me any time he could. He even would talk to her. Yup. It's a long complicated story.
True that. They are the ones instigating the emotional reaction from us and we are then told to calm down. Assholes.
Anytime I was upset about something, mine would take the OPPOSING party’s side and “play the devils advocate.”
They never do want to hear us. His favorite words,” zip it”. Stop being a B’. I’m not allowed to have my own opinion. I always thought people should agree to disagree. Not in their world!
It took me 15yrs to break free from his illusions & invisible cage; his constant mindfucks. It took me to grow emotionally mature past his permanent state of learned helplessness & parasitic codependency. I not only cut him off but several other relationships w/toxic people. I got tired of being fed off of. They were all draining the life out of me--LITERALLY. I'm recovery, tired & trying to move forward. I've been through hell starting in my childhood but I'm continuing to push forward w/my life. One foot in front of the other.
How I began breaking free was keeping my energy to myself, disengaging in mindless interactions & keeping my thoughts to myself; no matter how hard the narcs attempted to bait me. I simply began working on myself & finding ways to break free.
I told a narcissist man who wanted a date with me that I wanted a partner who could ask me how I was everyday, how I was feeling, if I was in any pain and how my goals for the day were coming...also I wanted someone who could be as nice to me as I am to my dog and my plants.... he said I was TOO NEEDY!! and went away!! LOL!
I don't "HOOK UP". NARC'S DO! I think I showed UN Narc People what they need to say to get rid of these NON human Time Wasters.
Tundra WHAT are you talking about--Sorry I described his motive too accurately!! I changed the work to date-- NOW do you feel better?? Is that gong to work for you?? Do you have an inability to create a connection?
@@janethomas78 -- Please look at the name-- "sheep shagger". That should tell you something.
I really enjoyed your comment. Thank you !!
😩 they don’t want to give just take while ur giving their needy ass ur damn near blood
You do sound kinda needy though
You can never question them without them having an absolute shit-fit AKA narcissistic rage. Classic way of shutting you down, instilling fear etc
They are ABSOLUTE bullies AND victims at the same DAMN time!!!
I appreciate your deep, well thought through videos.
In my experience with narcissists, they did the best they could to NOT allow me to speak at all, NOT express my opinion at all, they mentioned my feelings were 'irrelevant', they behaved as if I had no right to use my brain and think, in a few words as if I had been an object that belonged to them. They projected their own lack of responsibility on me. They did the following: A. Behaved like a parent to me B. Tried to impose on me what was supposedly good for me C. Told me what to DO. They also used other people as their 'tools'. They would not perceive them as 'persons'. Their main characteristic is their wish to make us stop thinking, and adopt their own evil ways. One of them even growled when I exposed the game he played on the web!!
This young man is one of the wisest I have seen...
Narc Parents say they know more than you and know what's best for you. It's okay for them to yell and rage because they make the money and you are just a child who is a burden and drain who they have support.
"I know you better than you know yourself!" For years they make this assertion to their kids.
And if they were so damn knowledgeable, they shouldn't have screamed like stuck pigs when their kids NC and never look back: Buh Bye, Felicia!
This is exactly right! I have been under attack for years for not doing and liking the things the narcissists like. I was "chastised at a family gathering for not wanting to play poker with everyone else. I don't like poker but according to the others I should like it, just like them.
I was chastised because I don't like a birthday party for myself. I don't care if others have them but I don't want one for me. But I was told I should like them because others like them.
These are such silly things to be angry about. But I have been treated with contempt because I don't always do the things other people want me to do.
I have limited the time I spend with them to about once a year and never in a crowd.
Gwendolyn Wehage
There's a saying that goes: "Stay away from shit because it smells" ;)
Personally, in my opinion, I would cut them out of my life completely asap with no regrets.
You've wasted enough time with them, spend that one time of the year with someone who doesn't treat you that way.
I can relate
It is their language you have to pay attention too.
I relate, they think we all need to be clones ,🤣
I've noticed a tendency for the narcissist to press for the very rules that they are most guilty of breaking. Then people around them are happy to follow the rules in the hope the narcissist will too. Also, the rule will be set to an exacting extreme. The narc continues usual rule-breaking behavior. Others are in a situation where they either unduly restrict their own behavior, or behave in a reasonable way that breaks unreasonable rules. Any slight against the rules will be used as excuse for the narc's bad behavior. Why should they follow the rules when others don't?
pamjify you are dead on correct.
Really good insight there, pamjify.
Right on.
Their obsession with rules and rule-breaking indicates something about their mental immaturity: They don't know what rules are really for. They completely miss the point of control, discipline, and authority. It's a mystery to them, as it is with children. Ever notice young children at a certain age become obsessed with rules and rule-breaking, tattling on their friends, finding petty loopholes in what their parents say? It's because they don't yet understand that rules exist for REASONS: to protect life, protect property, to prevent harm and catastrophe.
Adults follow rules and regulations because they see (at least to a greater degree than the average child) WHY it benefits them to do so. Children, being solipsistic, just see rules as a somewhat puzzling assortment of obstacles, prohibitions, rewards and punishments emanating from the mysterious world of adults. To them, a rule is just a locked box that they want to open, but they're intimidated by the adults' authority so they don't try too hard to open it. That's the Narc. That's their mental state. The difference is, now they're adults, they're harder to intimidate, and they're mastering all the clever ways to open all those boxes and move them around on people, meanwhile completely missing the point because they have no empathy. They yearn for a world in which they are the SUPER ADULT, the God, who gets to put all the locks on all the boxes and keeps the key for himself. That's their metaphysics. Terminally locked in solipsistic, sociopathic mental childhood.
narc employees do this.
He actually video taped me swearing to be with him forever and always. And we had to write a letter to the other about being faithful and loyal to each other, but he never was any of those things, but I truly was. So glad he's gone, my life is a light on full now.
I just know that their rules don t apply to them!
Oh, hell yeah!
He coldly discarded me at the very worst of my life leaving me so emotionally devastated that it's literally taken me over 20 yrs. to fully recognize and further recover from all the brutalities of his and his mother's severe catastrophic narcissism.
Yes, double standards and contradictions is common with abusive people I've met...
me: "where did you put the [ofc supply items]? they're not where they used to be..."
narc ofc mgr: "i had to move them. if you need [ofc supply items], just ask me."
me (uneasily): "ok..."
me (a few hrs ltr): "hey [narc], can I get some [ofc supply items]?"
narc ofc mgr: "no, I'm in the middle of ["task"]. you can ask me when I'm done."
me: "when do you think you'll be finished?"
narc ofc mgr: "I don't know, just keep checking back with me."
FirstHalfMoon 1734 OMG! Time to find a new job. I know I am right there with you.
Debbie Grant I should have said "fmr ofc mgr", huh?
This just pushed me....omg this exactly how they are
Perfect description of these control freak narcs ... always putting up road blocks, making you dance to their tune, trying to make you look incompetent. Yuck.
@Kelly Boggs np
There was a high level of accountability for my time away from the home whereas he was insulted and punishing if I tried to make him account for his time. There was a high level of disgust expressed for men who cheated on their wives, yet he was cheating on me. There was a high level expectation that I and others show love and respect to all children yet he teased and brow beat his own children. Everyone else was expected to control their addictions, spending, finances while his lack of. Control of such things should go unnoticed...and on and on.
+Youu
Yeah, they're so obvious. I guess if you want to know what they're up to, just listen to what they accuse YOU of doing. Pathetic and hilarious at the same time.
Yep, the hypocrital nature makes it impossible to trust them
Their obsession with rules and rule-breaking indicates something about their mental immaturity: They don't know what rules are really for. They completely miss the point of control, discipline, and authority. It's a mystery to them, as it is with children. Ever notice young children at a certain age become obsessed with rules and rule-breaking, tattling on their friends, finding petty loopholes in what their parents say? It's because they don't yet understand that rules exist for REASONS: to protect life, protect property, to prevent harm and catastrophe.
Adults follow rules and regulations because they see (at least to a greater degree than the average child) WHY it benefits them to do so. Children, being solipsistic, just see rules as a somewhat puzzling assortment of obstacles, prohibitions, rewards and punishments emanating from the mysterious world of adults. To them, a rule is just a locked box that they want to open, but they're intimidated by the adults' authority so they don't try too hard to open it. That's the Narc. That's their mental state. The difference is, now they're adults, they're harder to intimidate, and they're mastering all the clever ways to open all those boxes and move them around on people, meanwhile completely missing the point because they have no empathy. They yearn for a world in which they are the SUPER ADULT, the God, who gets to put all the locks on all the boxes and keeps the key for himself. That's their metaphysics. Terminally locked in solipsistic, sociopathic mental childhood.
That's extremely well said.
I'm happy you brought this up because it explains my situation very clearly. Basically, there's someone who wanted a romantic relationship with me. Initially, I was intrigued. But they were moving too fast. You don't just go on a vacation to another country with someone you don't know. And I pushed for things to go at a normal pace. It's good that I did. Because I learned that this person tried to violate every boundary I had. This person ended up hacking into my email and wifi network. And finally, I think I rid them of their unwanted presence in my life by threatening to expose them with proof if they didn't leave me be. They are more or less stalking me right now.
The interesting thing is that your explanation explains their behavior very much in line with their emotional standpoint. They have not matured beyond the level of that of a child. In such a way, they fail to understand that the boundaries around normal human interactions are set precisely to protect people.
While I'm not condoning these people's behavior, I will say it has taught me to be strong and ruthless in protecting myself. This is something that I've learned with time and it has very clearly protected me. I recognize now that it's really rather simple to deal with sociopathic people once you recognize what flavor they are. Strong boundaries, assert them clearly and plainly. If they cross them, there are consequences. It's like if there's a speed limit and someone gets caught speeding, there's consequences. Sociopathic people need to learn their are consequences for their behavior. It's not about punishment for the sake of punishment. It's about protecting other people from their behavior.
@@matrig6 I agree with you, intelligent and succinct.
Can I steal this?
Oh my god, yes, absolutely.
An ex narcissist friend. Her rule (I came to find) was my house, my furniture, my friends and my large property was hers, not my own!. If I said no party's this weekend at my home, I was abused by her, I stood my ground and I was discarded. She took alot of my friends with her as well.
Been there too Julie. Those "friends" she took w/ her will slowly see the truth of who she really is now that you aren't her target. She will now go after them. Just sit back & you'll see it happen. Honestly, if they chose her over you are they really the people you thought they were? Once they see how abusive she is they will come around. Surround yourself w/ those you love & trust the most right now. You deserve only positive support. Similar situation happened to me. In only a short amount of time one friend came back to me apologizing for not believing me after they saw the narcs true identity.
I appreciate your videos very much! So much clarity!
RULE: Keep the TARGET busy with all kinds of running for the NARCISSIST the business owner so TARGET has no time to think about the boundaries crossed.
J yep
They are hypnotists and magicians. It's all just an illusion, a trick
Sara A Yes it is all about the illusion! I often say that mine lives in LaLa Land a place that he sees himself in but it is not reality!
makes sense
Sara A witchcraft! lol but seriously
@Mary Carroll 💯
Call me crazy or fanatical or over the top...but I’m convinced that, not only is it witchcraft (rebellion, just as you said), but they are also harboring the spirit of Jezebel and allowing it to operate through them.
@Mary Carroll I left my husband one month ago. We had been married for 4 years. My family is very supportive but, by the grace of God, they have never experienced what you and I have on a daily basis, so it is impossible for them to fully understand it all. If you have a Facebook, I would so grateful if you could send me a friend request so I could message you. I need wise counsel in a couple of areas. I’m sure your life is crazy busy. I promise I will not bother you with trivial questions or conversation but If you’re willing and you have the time, I would be so thankful if you could impart your wisdom to me concerning a couple of things I’m facing presently. If this is okay, you can find me on Facebook (Kristen McLester). My profile pic is the same as the pic on here. God bless you and thank you.
Scott, It's as if you came and observed my extended family. Every video is spot on! Also, please don't ever think you are rambling on about any of this brutal subject matter. I'm sure I can speak for many of your viewers by saying we could listen to you all day, as you give us a voice and validation with the insanity we have had to go thru, with us not knowing what the heck it was all about!!!
Yeah. For his expressions alone. Lol!
I'm still with a narc, in the process of trying to get out. he always told me I am messy and that it's impossible for someone as tidy and rigorous as himself to live with someone like me. Before we lived together I assumed this was true. The last time he said it I pointed to the drifts of unopened mail on the floor of the dining room. Instead of acknowledging his obvious hypocrisy (A narc never blushes) he said 'you don't see me tidying up constantly', 'no I don't see that' I said because he never lifts a finger. He smiled sadly, 'there's a lot you don't notice.' They are experts at deflection and sending any implied criticism right back on our heads. This used to work. Now I look at him and think wow, you are a piece of work.
In reply to ways narcissists use justification for isolation that I experienced: Using supposed concern for your safety as a means to keep you from doing things that your interested in or that you need to do. Then on the other hand they will put you into dangerous situations without having to justify the reason other than they know what they are doing or what will not or can not happen. ... hope that makes sense. 🤔 Writing this actually validates my perceptions. Thank you for your insightful videos!
BB Gomez
This is so true. When I think about the dangerous situations I've been put in, omg
But he's raging at me for going to the grocery store by myself, (someone might have a gun and rape me.) sounds crazy, you can't make this stuff up!
Spot on!
Yes! Yes! Yes!
Nearly every idea I have to do anything is met with stories of how dangerous it could be and shouldn't be done without him present. On the flip side riding in a vehicle with him feels more dangerous than a walk in the wilderness with mountain lions. He's always trying to teach people lessons on the road 🙄
OMG! I knew that his ideas of how to keep me "safe" were contradictory and insane to the point of ridiculous - warning me to stay away from the edge of a riverbank as if I were too stupid to be able to even choose a path to walk without his "help," but it hadn't occurred to me before that that was exactly what he was telling me and wanting me to believe - that I'm not smart enough to do anything without him to guide and "protect" me, and of course, everyone around us thinks it's cute, and I'm so lucky to have someone who cares so much, and I shouldn't discourage him in any way from wanting to protect me, warning me that if I mess that up for myself, I won't be able to get it back again when I start missing it, blah, blah, blah!!!
When I was living on my own narc dad would try to provoke arguments with me when he'd just show up at my house about where I grocery shopped and that I spent too much money on groceries and he'd get super upset about it yelling about it. Yet he went out to eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner everyday and ate at home only once in a blue moon. He tries to make you feel guilty and undeserving of spending any money on things you need let alone want because of income bracket yet he can spend big money on fancy cars, furniture , and fun things because "he can". It really messed me up pretty bad. He would even go as far as to make you feel guilty for being alive as in having any needs at all basically giving the message that you don't deserve to exist and have any human rights.
Oh my goodness! THIS is the greatest video! It speaks to exactly what I've been dealing with for 4 YEARS with a woman who joined my sweet women's Bible study class at my church!!! I have felt so defeated by this woman as I have tried to be Christ-like and kind, but have felt scorned and rejected in return. I was actually teaching the class the day she first came to our class. She walked through the door into the class and stated, "I'm changing classes because the old ladies in the last class couldn't smell themselves, so they just kept applying more and more fragrance, and they don't realize how they stink." She soon singled me out, sent me an email telling me, "your fragrance burns my nose clear across the room." Not long after, the class met to go to a movie together and from clear across the lobby, this woman yelled at me and said, "Are you wearing perfume?" I said, "I do have on a little, I usually do." She proceeded to climb to the very top of the theater away from me and a few of the other women joined her away from me and some others because they felt sorry for her. We went to lunch as a group one day and when another woman came in to join us, this woman said in front of the whole group to her, "If I would have known you were going to be here, I wouldn't have come!"
One Sunday she brought a large stapled group of documents about fragrances to class and let us know we were the cause of our grandchildren's learning disabilities, etc. She campaigned and campaigned. She got two other women to join in her "cause," and they went to women in our class to tell them they were "smelly." I had just been an interim teacher when she joined. The other teacher and our Director of the class told her to sit away from anyone wearing fragrance. She told us that "SOME" fragrances were OK for her. But, some dryer sheets, makeup, hair product, etc., did cause her problems. The Director of the class soon told everyone in the class that we could no longer wear any fragrance to class. They told her to either wear a mask or leave if she couldn't take someone's fragrance in case someone did come (like a visitor!) What happened is that she began leaving A LOT. No one in class knew who it was who "smelled" wrong for her. Soon some of the women began to leave as they felt embarrassed. The Director sometimes got up and chastised us when this woman would leave so we all felt horrible. The Director started getting up with her hands on her hips and lecturing us on being kind to this woman by not wearing any fragrance she might have a problem with. She did this after any new woman joined the class. We were told that to be Christ-like, we couldn't wear any fragrance.
What has happened in this class is that this woman now has the Director and the teacher working her campaign on her behalf. She only has to get up and leave and they (the flying monkeys) take over and chastise and condemn for her. Over the course of these 4 years I have noticed that she is not consistent...at all...in when she leaves. At times I have had on fragrance and she stays and is fine. Other times, she gets up and leaves when I come in when I don't have any fragrance on at all. Now that I have been given this information, I can see this woman is a very controlling narcissist. She now controls the entire class. They have placed her in a position of leadership...in charge of all new members who join our class. She has effectively removed me from the class by embarrassing me in front of the class over and over. I just decided I wouldn't subject myself to it anymore.
When I first began listening to tapes about narcissists, their characteristics reminded me of Satan and the way he comes in to deceive us and what the Bible says about him wanting to be lifted up to be God himself. Scriptures states that Satan comes only to kill, steal, and destroy. I have been dealing with this in my church, watching this woman hurt, destroy and steal. She has made so many of us feel unwelcome and like something is wrong with us. I see now that the ones who are left are under her control (she is also in charge of all the class parties, trips, "fun" times). The ones she can control have stayed. Those who won't be controlled by her have left the church. It's so very sad. But, there is no "authority" in that class to rein her in...to handle the situation. She came in. She assessed. Then she took action. She has been effective, efficient, and successful in taking over control of a group for her "supply." Incredible. What does one do other than leave an "organization" where this is how it is? Until this video, other than my daughter and son-in-law, no one believed or cared this was happening.
I would also agree with the main idea being conveyed here. What I call it is emotional leverage. Narcissists seek to use any kind of social, institutional, or professional rule set to get leverage on you. At the same time they will dismiss or invalidate these same rules when applied to them.
They can do what they do but you can't!!!! Glad I'm done. 7.5 months bye 👋🏽
I believe you're speaking or cognitive bias. It creates conflict in our minds and we will lie to ourselves when reality does not match our values or beliefs - cognitive dissonance.
Always great videos!
This is very apparent in 12 step recovery programs. Narcissists thrive there.
This is so true!
Yeah. Alot of them that have years and years sober.Hiding behind their sobriety chips.
Can you explain more?
so glad to be out of that cage....which was a long, painful process to get out of. much of the process was using knowledge like yours to guide me out! great video as always, Scott
You could go on and on, I would not get annoyed. You had me giggling there. I remember, the narc I dated had rules of conduct. I had to dress a certain way, hold myself up a certain way, have my makeup a certain way (not the reason I don't wear makeup every day anymore), and those rules stood out. There were other, more subtle rules, but they changed at a whim to suit the narc's purposes, but the ones I mentioned were unchanging, constant. Oh, and I had to earn my right to be with him and act as though I didn't need his affection to deserve his affection, otherwise he didn't want to give it to me. But he would also have me beg and use it against me if I didn't but also if I did. Anyway, thank you again, I love your videos. Can you talk about recognising narcissists on social media? At some point. Would love to hear your take and thoughts on that. 😊 Thx again!
DarthShadie one way to identify them is they have alot of selfies. Or they are a victim and they have a support group there for them.
DarthShadie sounds alot like s&m does it not?
Yup... Basically everything is wrong. Lol
The rules that my narcissist imposed on me was that I was not allowed to leave the house, but if i ever questioned him he said "what do i have to check in with you?", he would always say i was going to meet his friends and family, then the next week he would say absolutely not. He was living with another woman who knows his friends and family that i didnt know about. So there is a double standard. He would never let me talk to exes because they "were bad people" but in his mind his exes "were saints" so therefore it made it ok. He always has 6 women on the go at one time and he thinks nobody can figure it out. He also would say things like "lets go to Seattle" but he would never take me there but he took the other woman. Almost as if he always had me on the hook like something great was going to happen but it never did. I would always question him and state that he plays double standard rules, but when i questioned him I would always get a blank stare. By contrast, when ever he would try to argue to get "fuel" I would say lets turn this around how would you feel if you were me? and his face would turn white. It is almost as if he had a conscience. He then developed nightmares and became cold and distant. Moral of the story is that they will always try something new if it doesnt work, but if you turn it on them and question they back down and disappear
That's key, everything they do is to remain a narcissist. Forever
I'll give an example: rules on conversation; more specifically, interrupting and how long a speaker is permitted to talk. The narcissist will claim to be staunchly anti-interrupting when someone is talking -- this seems like a reasonable rule, because let's face it, everyone hates being interrupted and frankly it's rude. They also say that it's unfair for one person to talk for too long, and this also seems reasonable. Thing is, the narcissist only seems to notice this injustice if they're interrupted or they feel someone else has been talking long enough to take the spotlight off themselves. I live with a narcissist who will actually police conversations at the dinner table -- telling someone that they need to stop talking because it's someone else's turn to talk (usually herself). If someone interrupts her when she's talking, she will yell at them and they're not allowed to talk. However, she routinely interrupts everyone else when they're talking (this usually only applies to the family though -- she will rarely interrupt a visitor), and if someone points this out to her, she'll say "You were talking too long already, it's someone else's turn," (her own). Also, while she will frequently make the claim that she was justified in interrupting someone else because they were talking "too long" (which in most cases they didn't even get a chance to finish one story), she will talk and talk and talk and does not stop talking (I think Understanding Narcissists did a video about how narcissist talk and don't stop talking). She can talk for 30 minutes without taking a break. It feels more like she's giving a speech or a monologue than a real conversation. Even when she's been talking that long, if someone "interrupts" her (usually they'll just comment on something she just said, wrongly assuming she was done talking because it seemed like she had finished the story), she will react the same way by yelling at them and saying how rude they're being. I've had entire evenings where the only person who said more than two sentences at a time was the narcissist.
They are very convincing to the outsiders, not for you. I kept observing them in silence and training myself to not react to them emotionally. This was very not welcome for them. I continued my observation and at the same time preparing my freedom and my new life. Everything happened as it was predictable. They even had to break with me first, but I already was done with them a month before when I said goodbye to the grandkids. They didn’t expect that I already said my goodbyes. Anyway I am in a new path now and learning from a good life. My husband (for 20 years now) is great and very himself and independent like me. I live in another country now. I still have to finish protecting officially what is mine because I am aware that they could do anything.
It's very fortunate that your mind works in abstract ways.
The number one rule is that they are not perfect and everyone has issues, but they will never identify those issues and if you do, you are wrong for it. but they can rant for literally hours about your problems. You are wrong to be upset at your elders for doing something wrong
My Narc spouse would come home late from work every day (even though we agreed on a time for everyone to be home as a family) and start criticizing and questioning everything: the floor is dirty, there are dishes in the sink, did the cats get fed? did you walk the dog? why are these lights on? So many rules for me, but no rules for her. Then she would expect me to drop everything and listen to her talk. An aha moment was when I told her she needed to sweep the floor and she said she didn't know how. I handed her the broom and she actually bumbled and pretended to not know how to use a broom - clumsily pushing the broom around and awkwardly holding it. It was ridiculous. A few weeks later I went to the basement and she was sweeping up a broken glass just fine.
Your advices I find are so helpful for women. Your advices and commentary are so insightful in ways that differ to those from female therapists which are equally helpful insightful but come from slightly different angle. I don’t know how to fully explain this but I have found all your videos amazing. Thank you and to all the men and women who create blogs and sites to help and make us survivors. I refuse to use the word “victim”
They are so convincing that everyone else tends to believe their lies (including the abused persons)
Here's 2...he could go out whenever but I needed to be home to be a good wife & mother. Also I was thr the only one working but when I bought up we could do so much better with him working too, God would provide! so glad to be out of the crazy house.
My brother has been married to a narcissist for a few years. She recently got pregnant by another guy (paternity test confirmed it) She still doesn't think she did anything wrong, she's blaming him and anybody she can except herself. needless to say he's divorcing her & I couldn't be happier. The challenge will be undoing what she's done to him, he's lost himself in that relationship.
TaprootToob Oh but they *do* ""understand:" As George Simon PhD observed, "It's not they don't see, They just don't agree" that the rules, norms, mores etc. of society apply to them.
They're special, dontchaknow. I believe that was one of the core concepts presented here.
He's blessed to have you as a sister.
Thank God he is able to walk away. I can just hear the narrative she probably tried to generate about how it was your brother's fault his wife cheated on him and got pregnant with another man's child, and how your brother should be a "real man" and stand by her side and help her raise this kid. Why? Wait...oh, yeah. Cuz THE RULES DON'T APPLY to the narcissist. Ever.
I get this haha. I imagine it as a new worker coming into a job and not knowing the rules. A narcissist would use the rules set up by the institution to scold him and keep him under control. The narcissist will nitpick everything to keep him stressed, on his toes and distracted so they can get away with what they want. They find ways to tap into influence and power that comes from collectives and use it against you, and it's much harder to fight that because there is a feeling that there are a number of people would agree with the narcissist, take their side, and be against you.
One thing I have found especially around Rules and the Narc - Common Law Rules in UK - as in Child arrangement Orders via the uk courts is the narc will do everything they possibly can to disrupt - my ex narc gf - will continually flaunt the rules set by a judge - so much so it required me to take her back court to enforce - I said she was manipulating the court order - the judge said there's a difference between manipulation and Belligerence - in my view they both amounted to the same thing - loss of time with my children as ordered by the court - it's just one example of rule breaking - they test - provoke and see how far your willing to go to stop their behaviours. Their behaviours deserve an Oscar - they purposely break the rules then cry victim for what they did - I found they always use 3rd party references to try and cover for their own behaviour - as it's never their fault - always pushing the boundaries - the judge agreed and awarded me more time with the kids as my point was - how can any court enforce time that's lost? So due to ex narcs belligerence to his court previous court order - he awarded me and the children more holiday time
He would steal my things, or destroy my things, or pawn my things, and I was never allowed to bring it up, if I dared to asked about any of my disappeared belongings, it translated to I was calling him and his son thieves.
He took all my money, by the hundreds, but if I gave $10 to a hungry friend, that was UNACCEPTABLE, she was just Using me. They live to use me like they're doing me the favor, and when I'm sick and weak and suicidal, it's because I am mentally ill. Born into a family of narcissists and being targeted by narcs my whole life as mates and friends alike, this understanding has completely changed my life. I knew, somehow, always, only man I ever dated who ISN'T a narcissist is the one I married, turned all the others down, but friends and family always weaseled their way back, until now.
My Narc initiation was in a strictly religious setting. Gods grace was everyones excuse for breaking moral code, which the narc filled household of all females from 3 generations seemed to rather enjoy with a wink and a nod. There were no rules when I walked in, only one- "Whoever wants it the most, gets it". I thought this only meant free for all gifts I often brought, or a decision to be made, whatever, but it was deeper than that. I live by moral rules with consequences if broken and that was the only think that helped me break away. I got disgusted at myself for where I was letting the creature (and flying monkeys) take me...down a crooked road to Hell. Thank you for your thought provoking, coaxing style of counsel. It's made me look back at the facade in a different way tonight. Thing I'll subscribe and hear more.....
Double standards. Broke up last year. He could show up at my house but I couldn't show up at his. He liked to talk but I was cut off from normal discussion. It was such a turn off knowing how the normal order of things go. I hung on knowing and did like a case study like on a psych patient. I found out he was diagnosed as a child with bipolar probably under diagnosed or misdiagnosed. Textbook narcisisst
Oh yeah because they hide from you but feel entitled to be in your life whenever they want abuse you & come and go. Come to your home whenever don't inform you but if you do this .. how dare you!! They are hypocrites definitely!
Also they have to hide from you hate confrontation. You coming to them & asking any questions or confronting like saying your a Covert Narc aren't you? Your a liar that manipulated me controlled me..anything they can't be confronted by you. You show up & do this hell no in their mind! You are destroying their ego their false self then they have to feel worse have to confront their own black hole. All that matter is themselves you don't! They are more then selfish if you learn nothing else. Unless you are with them & they don't want to lose you. You can make some demands gifts etc.. it's sad all of it really. So surreal can't wrap my head around it. All my Narc wanted & still wants is complete control of me.
You don't want to be involved with the family.. trust me! My Covert Narcs family the parents act strange. They only discuss the weather nothing personal that I saw. Took photos all wearing matching shirts above others it's all a show they put on fake facade nothing real. If something bad happens to one of them they pretend it was nothing there fine all good all a show.
Scott, one must really experience this in order to understand it. In this video, I feel your angst in trying to explain the behavior of a narcissist in a clear and concise manner. They are so slippery and cameleon -like that in order to understand them and wrap your head around their way of thinking, you must transport yourself to a place that defies logic and humanity. It is indeed a scary, evil place to visit. God bless all of us who have suffered under the hand of such evil beings.
Double standards, getting trapped in a cause, preaching and holding up ultimate standards so convincingly, but doing things that are beyond the pale, without conscience, wanting and needing to uphold the dream, being too far invested, feeling betrayed but never allowed to mention the inconsistencies without the rage and they don't care anyway.
The strange thing I was fooled in the beginning...but as time went on....I KNEW he was working on me...I could not let go because of FEAR of not having him...well..in time I truly knew the game he played and KNEW for my own sanity I had to leave..it DOES take time to feel the wave of emotion that rises at different times to just stop myself and REMEMBER what the truth was..and the truth...HIS TRUTH was a lie...and all he was and is...really is a lie..ty you for this video....
I live in a building where the building manager is a narcissist. All the residents are 55+ , some ranging to 100+ . We have a Board of Governors, a Financial Committee, and other committees to look after things. We also have a constitution and bylaws. Guess who is considered to be the expert on the rules and regulations governing this complex? Yep, its the Narc. Board members ask him how to proceed. Not only that, he is generally considered the life and soul of this complex. Given constitutional authority to play with, he dominates the expenditures as well as his own time spent on the job. When newcomers move in, we receive an incomplete set of the constitution and bylaws. We cannot challenge him on anything.
Yet some of us see the inconsistencies between words, actions, and failures to act but we are singled out, isolated, maligned, and our voices are diminished or disregarded altogether. Most seniors have given up trying to remedy the situation. I WILL TRY HARDER KNOWING WHAT WE ARE UP AGAINST.
They do seem to try and set up weird relational dynamics like this as well as it being a contradictory method of behavior for themself; Authority/Rebel, Parent/Child, Unwell/Healer, Hero/Victim etc
I can only imagine the pain you've endured in your life at the hands of a narcissist Scott. Your wisdom & knowledge is immense on this topic. It must come from years of hurt. I'm so sorry you've gone through it. The biggest rule of my narc ex "best friend" was related to dating. He could date all he wanted but my attention had to be solely dedicated to him at all times. You can only imagine the hell that broke loose after the person he was pursuing wanted to be w/ me & not him. Absolute hell on earth....
“You need to love me unconditionally “. I was like ‘huh? What does THAT mean?’ What I heard was: ‘you need to be ok with whatever I want to do’. Sick.
For the narc norms be it legal or social do not matter unless it benefits them. There is a hell of a lot of hypocrisy with them. They value privacy and individuality except for yours. Whatever suits them.
you're singing to the choir. I dearly love my family but most have inherited the controlling, manipulative, victim, shame and a few that could be poster children for Narcissism.
I have been thru the brow beating, " it's all your fault and I'm the victim", " you need to get balanced" I have stress anxiety with panic attacks. I no longer living alone. I live with a family member. since I was diagnosed with PTSD also, there are so many triggers that I had yet another emotional crisis.
I'm not going to share what I've gone thru personally because I have trust issues but I feel trapped. I woke up this morning crying. But I'm still caught up in that "going along to get along, people pleasing, and beating myself up because I need to stick to my boundaries, and attempting to explain that I'm not having a pity party but there's triggers that it's totally futile and exhausting to explain because again-I can't dwell in the past:.
I love my family but I crave the privacy I once had.
Knowledge is power. This information is crucial. Your very life depends on it!! Don't get fooled again. Usually if you have been involved with one narcissist and break up ( you never really break up from one. They have to die or be institutionalized) another one will find you. Eyes wide open.
Thank you Rebecca for your advice.
After I discovered I was in a relationship a Narc, a short one thank goodness,
I decided to bury myself into learning all I could about Narcissism / in an "I need to know" sort of way, to help myself understand it all. I've never researched a topic or was driven to learn so much about anything before that fateful day Narcissism entered my life.
True, eyes wide open..and always, always, always trust your instincts, they NEVER lie..If something doesn't feel quite right, or feels "off " to you about someone, or if there is a red flag staring you in the face, then there most likely IS something wrong..Face it and remove yourself from the relationship as soon as possible, because the longer you hold off, the harder it will be and the worse you are going to feel, both physically and emotionally.
As I said, I was only in my relationship for a short period of time ( 3.5 months) but even in the short period of time, I was left with some lingering effects of what my ex put me through.
I was denying what was happening..I doubted myself and what was unraveling before my very eyes, because I didn't want to believe it.
What bothers me the most from my experience is that I will always have trust issues..I'm sure they will lessen in time, but it'll always be there in the back of my head as to whether or not someone is being upfront and truthful with me.
Its sucks because I never had second thoughts about anyone before my experience with a Narc. I am not a naive person, but I never thought anyone could be as evil, manipulative and destructive as my ex was.
Unfortunately, my outlook towards others has dramatically changed. But the further I educate myself about narcissism, I am hopeful that it will eventually change.
Hugs to all, and know that this community stands by you. We are all here for each other, whether for advice and /or support or to further educate ourselves.
Thank you Scott for this and all of your other videos.
Your book was very insightful. Fantastic job on that!
Be strong all and God Bless.
i can't agree with you more...Have had an experience with a narcissistic boy for 2 months and honestly, I feel like my brain's been ultimately messed up. I have never imagined anyone could be so evil, deliberately toxic and heartless. I will now be worried at all times if anyone else I meet will also have this special condition i was never familiar with. This kind of saddens me. My stomach churns at the fact that he has multiple victims wrapped around his fingers in this country (he moved 2 months ago) that are feeding his ego everyday. I wish him deported or just gone from this world.
Your logic is probably going over most heads. But I understand completely. My sister is a narcissist and she will break the rules but when it comes to her helping me obtain employment in her field, she then follows all the rules referring to my experience level etc. She cheated on her husband, but then insults me when my narc husband left me. She gave loads of reasons why he left me (rules) blaming me for pushing him away. But her husband left and remarried quickly and then never blamed herself as to what she did wrong. I grew up with this weirdness. But, I was shocked to find out there are so many narcs here in society. They are everywhere causing havoc in so many lives, like an alien invasion of sorts.
I was raised by these people and internalized their messages\values. I am the opposite to avoid being like them. However, when trying to do anything good for myself I experience how I think they feel inside. I feel undeserving so my temptation is to devalue someone/something else to feel worthy of them. Narcissists develop huge degrees of self-deception to avoid these feelings of unworthiness because putting self first is a habit for them in any situation. They automatically seek to devalue, dominate, own and/or control anything they feel inferior to.
I have LOVED all of your videos.. they helped me so much..and truly made a huge change in my life.. and Thank you for being there!
yes we question their sanity then we do turn away and don't see it because it's all too hard then we start to question our own sanity. that's right we don't want to see it and that is the most dangerous thing
It's "rules for thee, not for me" and stolen valor all the way down with those people
When I got married, I just thought my inlaws had their issues but meant well. Boy was I wrong! I have a narc mil and codependent fil. Basically, no one can have feelings about anything. Only she is allowed to have them. They tried to control each of their sons lives in every aspect, including having financial access to bank accounts. Even commenting on my sister inlaws spending.) and when I set boundaries, they couldn’t handle it. And started bad mouthing me to my husband and anyone else who would listen. Luckily my husband has seen through their bs for a long time. It’s almost as if mil expected everyone to live through life and make the same choices she did, and if you didn’t, you were an idiot..... the crazier thing is one of their sons ex girlfriends even chose the same college degree as mil just to make her happy. This girl let mil control her every decision just to gain approval, and now they’re broken up. This girl altered her life for them. It’s crazy what they can get someone to do.
A perfect word to describe the dynamic of a narcissistic home is inured. The tone that has been crafted becomes the norm and its hard to see the truth especially for the "good" child.
I knew a narcissist that would read the Bible for hours every day. She would take copious notes and put biblical notes and passages on Facebook. The Bible was the ultimate authority and was the literal truth in every word. After hours of reading, she would close the book and then treat everyone around her like garbage.
I could never ever become annoyed with you Scott.
Dude... you are incredibly insightful on the subject. Unlike any other educator. Yes. They are super crafty and flexible in customizing the manipulations.
It’s like playing football, getting charged with carrying (in basketball), making a touchdown, but the referee calling “fault” as in tennis and the game scored like a round of golf. If he is still losing...he takes the puck, places me in the penalty box because everything is a competition and I ALWAYS have to be the winner. WTF.
I love your style of delivery, I love the extraverted thinking. It's inspiring to me
My parent-in-laws love to shame and guilt us when we don't do exactly as they wish for things like holidays or birthdays. This mother's day, MIL had my SIL (one of her flying monkeys) send my husband a nasty message: "Tomorrow is Mother's Day. Email Mum or get on webcam". My husband decided not to adhere to either of those commandments. He instead sent an ecard, letting them all know that he'll honor his mother as he would like and not as he is commanded. His mother feigned a Thank You for the ecard, but then slipped in a guilt trip about how she hasn't spoken to him on webcam in a while (you and I both know this is a way to shame him for not having gotten on webcam on Mother's Day as he was directed to do).
She closed by wishing **ME** a nice Mother's Day (late and very unaffectionately), because naturally she needs to be seen as a martyr who is "thoughtful". It's interesting that she completely ignored my birthday this year, and then ignored Father's Day for my husband...but if my husband hadn't at least sent that ecard, his name would have surely been MUD.
They can ignore any holiday they like, sent passive-aggressive messages, etc but if my husband doesn't follow their exact directives to the letter, he's guilted and shamed. Well, let me clarify: he really couldn't care less, but he acknowledges that they are TRYING to guilt and shame him. I know it bothers him on some level, because he used to look up to these people as infallible because that is the conditioning he had all through childhood.
His mother is always the quivering, shivering martyr who is always so poorly treated by others despite her "thoughtfulness", which is always doled out either with strings attached, only for the audience member in question to witness, or as a means to convince herself that she deserves better than what she gets in return because a.) she's the parent, and as such deserves "respect" no matter WHAT and b.) she is so giving of herself (puke) that her children should cater to her every emotional whim in exactly the way she decides they should in each and every moment as a sign of their love and loyalty.
My hat's off to you! My husband and I are taking care of my covert-narc MIL and let me tell you, I now see how and why my husband used to act the way he did. She herself is textbook CN but luckily on a lighter level. Still she tried all the narc tactics in the book on me, not knowing that I was already on to her and pretty much ignored her silliness, lol. It is true about the narcissistic rage that boils up when they don't get what they want. The pupils of her eyes have become blacker than night with nothing behind them but rage. I get chills thinking about it!
Me From Maine or u could just facetime on mothers day....if that what she wanted...but her forgetting sbout your bday is unacceptable
No, sorry, we're on Very Low Contact, so a facetime was not on the menu. Contacting the abuser just because they ask you to is only going to perpetuate the abuse.
Awww, poor widdle MIL, aka the Timid Forest Creature(tm).
Her "presentation" is about as fresh as an N typology archeological find. And as common as broken pottery.
This sounds so very very familiar. I came to realize my covert narcissist's mother falls along this line ... she seems slightly borderline/somatic narcissist blend with sometimes overt tendencies. Likewise his father is without a doubt an overt peacock and his brother is judge and prosecutor which mainly lies on the overt range and see-saws momentarily into covert. It's like being around a pack of ravenous hyenas that play nicely around each other and smear each other when their backs are turned. Everything is done with strings attached and debt (along with their needs are more important than anyone's despite circumstances). Good thing your husband knows to minimize the demands and stands his own ground!
I've never seen a narcissistic person who cares,or even act like they care,I don't know too many of them but I've noticed they act like they have no emotions like that at all,I believe I'm empathic,I've been accused of caring too much, or been told my niceness is going to get me in trouble, which actually it kinda did,with the wrong people.
Good video on this subject. Scott my Narc used his sister's abusive ex boyfriend who wasn't a good person to her, and her children. He used that a lot to deflect when I approached him on any negative things that I caught him with. It was like he was looking for pity, as if he was the hero to help his family out. At the time I was speaking about some pretty serious things in our relationship. While along now knowing the abuse of a Narc now in my life. He was just deflecting. This is when I started to have a sense to ones self something isn't right with my relationship. A year and 6 months with no contact.
Do as i say, not as i do. ... This is a great video, thank you
My ex always tried to set rules for me and for us. Even though he lived one town over, ten minutes away, there was always a reason why he couldn't come over. He had to help his grandparents pack for a move. He wasn't feeling well. He accidentally fell asleep and is now too foggy to get in the car and drive over. I made a big deal of it because .... well .... I wanted to spend time with him. So, he talked with his grandmother and they agreed that two nights a week was a good limit. God forbid I should try to ask him over more than the set limit or complain. I was too needy, controlling, and ultimately annoying. It didn't make sense. I could never understand, given how close we lived, and how much he said he cared about me, that he didn't want to spend more time with me. I never saw why ther was such an issue. I guess I know now.
The repetitive inconsistency made me think that he was sloppy at thinking,
so he had no evil plans and thus was harmless or incapable of ultimately causing real damage. Even his rages seemed unsourced and unexplainable. But there was always a hidden advantage for himself that came out in end and deep pain for me.
It took me a lot of time to realize that his insanity was manufactured for eventually destroying my reputation and breaking my soul , it was his only purpose in life. He always broke the rules as if he was entitled to special treatment for some reason, he was unaware of even the simplest basic notions of any kind. For example he had zero religious knowledge or political opinions yet if I commented the news or an article, he was ready to point out that I was some heretical criminal for just having an idea. A big propaganda against me. He must have been looking forward to have me declared insane. That would be a victory for any narc. Luckily I'm still standing, working successfully for our three children, looking great, being caring and helpful for the people who love me.
The "Rules" were just another form of devaluing me. He often choose these abstracted social rules or authorities as a point of comparison so that he could criticize me. He did the same with others with comments like "Well, I just assumed it was an agreed upon rule that...." Whatever they write in the New Yorker magazine was also used as a comparison and he believed it must be true. He loved authority figures from ivy league schools and making comparisons based elite education. The subtext message was always "I do not measure up."
I always saw it and knew it...but ignored my gut feeling..and the insanity in the situation got so bad for me...I had to end it....
Had a narc landlord once. He tried continually to impose laundry restrictions on all tenants. 1st he charged us all every month to use “community machines” Then… when each of us bought our own machines. New rule: “We could only do 2 loads per day. Even though it was our own electric bills & machines. If you broke this rule… he would key your car somewhere when u weren’t looking. All these scratches; until cameras were installed. Avoid narc landlords - You want peace where you rest - MOVE at all costs !! They are demon-critters; ALL of them. Love my new place, in a new healthy community 💙❤️🙂.
thanks so much for sharing your recent revelations ....
Thank you for this excellent video. The actions and overall behaviour you describe here sound like something a ’communal narcissist’ would do.
The one I know made rules and one of them excluded me from visiting their house. This allows well their double standards and role playing. People seem to be treated like objects by them, taken from the shelf for usage and then put back when not needed. It took me one year and three seemingly ’natural’ discards (where by manipulation he made sure I looked as if I did not fit in with the rest, so he had the grounds to ask me to stay out) to understand that this is what was actually happening.
As you said, the manipulation is often extremely subtle so one needs to look at the facts and listen to gut feelings.
Spot on as Ever. Thanks for nailing thus one. Vital missing link in our understanding the behaviour
The rules they say to the other person is for the other person to follow, but they don't have to follow the same rules that they "set".
The narcist needs to be free to break any rule, be it society's, yours, his, nature's, or an agreement *and* get away with it. Only then did they proof how they stand above everything, godlike.
rules: you must be poor. you may not spend money. if you spend money, it means you aren't poor enough. you must wear socks or hosiery always. you must wear a slip even if you skirt is fully lined and a floodlight can't shine through. it's a really nice skirt but of course it was a free hand-me-down due to rules 1 and 2.
its my experience that narcs study people, how they react to rules, so they can manipulate their minds.
.My observations as far as their controlling behaviour tends to revolve around stuff. Either how stuff should be placed, folded,washed, hung or used. They control the environment that way, but they also talk down about others as well always offering other people have broken rules and they have not. And they can be so convincing that they really are superior beings in the household.
In regards to their ways of "communicating" to (not w/) their targets. In my experience, they gauge their targets, they take mental notes, an inventory of what will pull your trigger. They are true predators, true vampires.
I've been married to a narcissist for (hold your hat) 38 years. I was totally brainwashed by this man for all of these years. It wasn't until the past 4 years that I realized that I was used, abused and manipulated in to a person that I no longer knew. I started counseling...which he said I didn't need because "he would help me". Counselors only tell you what you want to hear....haha I should tell you that I have suffered with anxiety and panic attacks for years but nothing like I've suffered in the past 4 years. I've realized that my marriage is all about me giving and giving and him taking AND expecting more. He tells me I haven't earned any respect. He accuses me of having affairs and then I find him in our driveway making out with a woman. His Viagra stash is slowly disappearing. I've been ready to sign divorce papers but just as I get ready to process the papers, he verbally and emotionally attacks and I start with panic attacks and shut down. This has happened three times in the past two years.
My counselor tells me to have him removed by the police and get a divorce. It isn't that easy and I'm losing myself. I feel I''m going crazy. This is the biggest obstacle to overcome to move on. Can someone please tell me how I'm going to get over this anxiety and get out of this relationship.
PLEASE take your counsellor's suggestion. The sooner you get him out of your life, the sooner the REAL you will begin to return. She's a cool chick, remember?
Martie Smith I can relate.. been married to the N for 28 years.. I too have horrible panic and anxiety and I filed for divorce a year and a half ago.. still in court 😖.. you can do it!! Get someone to give you some tranquilizers and find someone who can go with you to the lawyer or court.. My personal experience is my anxiety will be really bad until I get where I need to go and then after I'm there a few minutes and start getting distracted with the details it calms down.. I would not let the N know of anything you are doing and do not just go and file for divorce without doing your homework.. Get copies of as much stuff as you can.. bills, bank accounts, any accounts with money, pensions, 401k's... Try and get proof of any of the n's bad behaviors, etc... But, no matter what you do don't ever clue him in to anything you are doing or plan to do.. If he's anything like my n, he will try to cover his tracks... My n was stunned when he got the divorce papers, never saw it coming and with an n you want to take them off guard.. If he's violent or you think he may become violent, make sure you tell your lawyer you must be informed ahead of time when he will be served so you can get out of dodge ahead of time.. I did this.. my n has never been physically violent but I did not take the chance as I thought there was a good possibility the papers could push him over the edge.. I don't know where you live but if it is legal for one party consent, record his abuse.. get a journal and document what happens every day.. Once you file for divorce, any issues of importance where you must communicate with the n, do it through email or text so you have a record of what was said as the n will try and twist your words.. Find a lawyer who specializes in high conflict divorce as they will have dealt with more n's and should be better at dealing with them... I didn't think I would ever be strong enough to do it either but I'm doing it and you can too.. Good luck!!
I believe their are lots of people who enjoy treating people like sh*t,I've had some put on a show where they use me as a verbal punching bag,they believe if they are mad that gives them the right to anything they want, it will come back around, I truly believe that.
Scott, you hit the nail right on the head once again!
They don’t want you to have your own opinions!
it's all about control by any means. if that means being the victim, or the strong, or using your weaknesses, or using the court or cops,. or pretending to be "stupid,' they will use it against you. control by any means. but in a triggered state, they won't remember any ounce of love or action you've taken on their behalf. what would infuriate him the most was that he couldn't find a pattern with me. he couldn't figure out a logical way to pacify me. no amount of gifts or time. He would look at any change in my tone or face and guess at what it meant and follow me and argue with me until I broke down when I would try to gather my thoughts and deal with things in a way that wouldn't cause a fight.
yes I remember thinking boy this guy doesn't understand the Golden Rule does he. how naive I was
My husband forces me to keep objects at home the way he wants, he may be right, but there's a kind of bullying there and trying to make a mess out of a small thing, and thus putting me to shame, and glorifying himself. Instead of making things light, he makes it an issue, a humongous one...aargh
This is absolutely spot on!! 💙